micha571

new Pogo 36 - any intel?

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We just ordered one - well, at least paid the deposit to get a production slot. More details as they come to hand. :D

 

We've sailed an S&S 34 for 5 years, and been hosted on a friend's Pogo 12.50 which is awesome.

 

IRC racers need not apply. Off-wind cruisers, very much yes!

 

 

Congrats!! How far out are they booked?

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We just ordered one - well, at least paid the deposit to get a production slot. More details as they come to hand. :D

 

We've sailed an S&S 34 for 5 years, and been hosted on a friend's Pogo 12.50 which is awesome.

 

IRC racers need not apply. Off-wind cruisers, very much yes!

 

 

Congrats!! How far out are they booked?

 

2 years! :(

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Congrats. You'll love it, the finish on Shaggy's boat is first class & the layout & hardware is very well thought out. You can clearly see they are built by sailors.

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Well done! Keep us posted on your progress. These are very intriguing boats for me & seem to demonstrate real forward progress for sporting cruisers at a time where I mostly see devolution. Would love to see some on the US West Coast... anyone game out there? Would they even get up onto a plane in SoCal light air (say 8-12kts)? Can you get a tall rig?

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seems like the perfect boat for the light air PNW here in Seattle!

 

I would like to agree with you, but I can't. The Pogo 30 in Seattle hasn't had much success. I think the boat really needs big breeze for the form stability upwind to work and the planing ability downwind to work. In light air, the wetted surface area and not so high SA/Disp ratio aren't in its favor. Either that or the PHRF 75 rating is just unrealistic.

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Okay, the 36 does have a higher SA/Disp ratio than the 30. Maybe it will move. I'm still skeptical. Nothing I've seen from the 30 or the Pogo 12.5 suggests these designs go well in light air, at all. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise? Happy to be wrong. I love the Pogo's, but I personally wouldn't buy one for the Salish Sea. SF Bay would be great.

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seems like the perfect boat for the light air PNW here in Seattle!

 

 

As Roleur said...it's just not. Light air is the enemy of high form stability boats like this. J35's walk all over it in typical PNW conditions.

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seems like the perfect boat for the light air PNW here in Seattle!

 

I would like to agree with you, but I can't. The Pogo 30 in Seattle hasn't had much success. I think the boat really needs big breeze for the form stability upwind to work and the planing ability downwind to work. In light air, the wetted surface area and not so high SA/Disp ratio aren't in its favor. Either that or the PHRF 75 rating is just unrealistic.

 

 

Yes these boats need some wind. In light wind, you need to shift all the weight you can forward and to leeward to get the fat ass out of the water. I think that the newer ones are better, the pogo 8.50 was really struggling in light winds.

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seems like the perfect boat for the light air PNW here in Seattle!

 

 

As Roleur said...it's just not. Light air is the enemy of high form stability boats like this. J35's walk all over it in typical PNW conditions.

 

That's not the case at least for Pogo 36. Don't worry about her light air performance! Which J35? It's just another league! Even newest J112 can't beat Pogo 36 upwind in light air! )) Downwind all is clear - Pogo starts planning from just 12 knots of true wind.

 

Experts opinion:

 

Charly Fernbach, Pogo Structures:

“Comparing the Pogo 10.50 from the year 2007, we made a lot of smaller and some bigger changes to the hull to furthermore improve upwind and light wind performance. When we did the sea trials during the European Yacht Of The Year against the J-112 our Pogo had a little superior performance in terms of pointing and speed in 10 knots of wind. Compared to the Pogo 40, a boat from the year 2005 – this new Pogo 36 is a better yacht. She is much more versatile. The Pogo 36 will plane early and overall we managed to fix some other difficulties that aroused in older boats.”

http://no-frills-sailing.com/the-new-pogo-36/

 

Toby Hodges. Yachting World, Britain:
"Gone are any past notions of these beamy designs being sticky in the light breeze. The Pogo will match any ‘traditional’ narrow hull shape upwind – then smoke it offwind. A Pogo guarantees fast cruising fun – but the performance in light airs of the 36 was a pleasant surprise. The build quality throughout is also first class. Pogo have made a concerted effort to make their interiors more comfortable for cruising and it shows. For me it’s the most exciting monohull of 2016."
Other experts: http://interestingsailboats.blogspot.ru/2017/01/european-performance-cruiser-of-2017.html

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Bump...

Contacted Pogo and the order lead time estimate currently  3.5 years (congrats to them!) and they also mentioned  something of a bump up in demand from the US.  So... anyone have one, or have one on order, or sailed /raced one? Please share any sailing impressions/comparisons or photos if willing!

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Hey Ols, I've just received mine 6 weeks ago. Amazing boat. Go and check out my Instagram (@the.pogo.life) for some video & first impressions.  Also PM me for questions if you have any. 

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Received an email from Pogo yesterday 

Here, (finally!) Some news from Pogo 36.

First of all, there is good news: we have increased our production rate over the past few months, which has enabled us to open production slots. The waiting list is now moving faster than what was announced to you when you ordered.  Do not hesitate to contact me to make a point on your project.

You will find attached the price of the standard for 2020, as well as the 2019 options list which will be updated at the beginning of the year 2020. You will also find a standard estimate of boat ready to sail ( 2019 prices).

The first 43 boats sail on all the oceans of the world! On the maps below, in green, the current position of the ships already delivered. In pink, the boats ordered.
 
In Europe :
 
 
the rest of the World :

 

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2 hours ago, svitale said:

You will find attached the price of the standard for 2020, as well as the 2019 options list which will be updated at the beginning of the year 2020. You will also find a standard estimate of boat ready to sail ( 2019 prices).

You left out the best part.

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5 hours ago, svitale said:

 

image.png

image.png

I'll have to let them know the Aussie green dot needs to move about 1000kms further south to Newcastle.

 

On 2/9/2019 at 3:09 AM, ols said:

Bump...

Contacted Pogo and the order lead time estimate currently  3.5 years (congrats to them!) and they also mentioned  something of a bump up in demand from the US.  So... anyone have one, or have one on order, or sailed /raced one? Please share any sailing impressions/comparisons or photos if willing!

Even though it sucks when you're waiting, it is so good to see boat manufacturers with a stuffed order book.

Quality sells, eh?

 

 

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Booked a slot in January, delivery time just over two years (March 2022).

Any intel on fixed vs swing keel for best performance?

All happy owners in here? Sailing upwind?

Any weakness so far?

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Congratulations! No idea on keel choice but naturally I’d pick the fixed keel (probably cheaper) but the keel I would have is a lead fin but they don’t make one! I guess sailing upwind has to be done wide and fast. The middle sea race last year had a 36 in it but they didn’t exactly put on a good performance! (Think they were near to last on the water??) They race pogo 30s in France under irc with more success which is pretty unheard of so it could be worth doing some homework and seeing how they spec theirs. Are you looking at racing or cruising? 

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Thanks, it is for long cruises solo with some adrenaline. I might do some races at some point but not interested in optimising the boat for that.

Shipyard claims with swing keel it is lighter (350kg) and faster. Interestingly on the 30 instead they say no difference in performance as the weight is the same (but then you will have more righting moment as swing is deeper??).

Have some time before I have to make my mind but I think I will go for swing, also for convenience. I could also change my mind completely if something else comes out in the next year or so (have 6 months before the slot to cancel).

Have considered also JPK38FC and J112E, but prefer the Pogo 36 (we can discuss why..).

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For cruising I’d pick the swing keel for sure, I think the righting moment should be similar as the swing is deeper but lighter, upwind in breeze the swing should be better but will be more sticky in the light airs. If I had the budget I’d be all over a Pogo 36 but I would seriously look at a lead fin keel for its lower drag because the pogo is hardly lacking in righting moment. Don.’today really know much about the JPK38 and I think the J won’t be as effortless as the pogo but probably faster upwind. 

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Actually I forgot to mention that Mr Conq in person told me that the swing keel (counterintuitively for me) has a lower drag vs fixed keel as the latter has a larger wet surface due to the bulb

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That proves it.  There is a correlation between how good a boat is and how far removed its IRC rating is from reality.

 

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12 hours ago, Mais78 said:

Booked a slot in January, delivery time just over two years (March 2022).

Any intel on fixed vs swing keel for best performance?

All happy owners in here? Sailing upwind?

Any weakness so far?

You’ll get offered earlier slots if you want them. I booked in July 2018 for delivery in May 2021. I turned down September 2020 but yesterday they had a late February 2021 open.  I might take the new slot as I’ll be retired by then and can sail it around Europe before bringing it back to the states. 

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4 hours ago, Teener said:

That proves it.  There is a correlation between how good a boat is and how far removed its IRC rating is from reality.

 

That isn’t always the case - just how it is optimized. Pogo 30/36/12.50 have never been about racing. 

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9 hours ago, svitale said:

You’ll get offered earlier slots if you want them. I booked in July 2018 for delivery in May 2021. I turned down September 2020 but yesterday they had a late February 2021 open.  I might take the new slot as I’ll be retired by then and can sail it around Europe before bringing it back to the states. 

Ideally I would have it for summer 2021 but I think you need to have been waiting for a year or two before you get offered an earlier slot. When I booked, it was a end 2022 delivery but told them I was not willing to lose also summer 2022 so they soft committed for Easter 2022. They do have cancellations, or people trading up or down to 12.5 or 30, so have some flexibility.

Congrats on your 36! Care to share your configuration?

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11 hours ago, Teener said:

That proves it.  There is a correlation between how good a boat is and how far removed its IRC rating is from reality.

 

That’s a little unfair to the boats that are good but rate well! Infinity in the middle sea race finished last under irc and was beaten on the water by several hours by J109s, a now 16 year old design and the same length but a ton heavier. The Sunfast 3600 is a fantastic boat to sail and it’s likely that with the exception of  breezy reaching or downwind a Pogo 36 is unlikely to gain much over a SF3600 and upwind the pogo wouldn’t see where the SF went. I can pretty much back up this because in the Fastnet on a 3600 we held off a 12.50 for over a day with them only starting 10 minutes behind us and they only caught us on a blast reach, a few hours later upwind we overtook them once again to round the rock ahead of them. On the 20-25kt reach from the rock they took 3 hours out of us which was to be expected, I’d also add they had a crew and we were 2 handed. Having said all of this I still love the Pogo’s and I consider myself as part of the niche that they appeal to, very light, nicely built boats for fast cruising. They’re not racing boats but if you try to race one you just have to accept that you’re likely to get a very poor result and be beaten on the water by older boats of a similar size but much heavier with smaller sails. Unless it’s a 25kt downwind leg of course.

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Infinity is the Pogo 36 of Fastsailing Greece that I booked for this summer. They might have participated in the context of their “train & race” package. I think we should also consider the performance in the context of the crew. If it was me I would have arrived even after a Bavaria lol
SF 3600 is a nice boat but if I have to judge it with the eyes of the solo cruiser: not as nicely built, 2 cabins vs 3, less space in general, ideally needs crew of 2-3 people vs 1, planes later and has lower top speed (I d rather make 1 knot less upwind and have that adrenaline downwind). But if you want to race it is a more suitable boat.

Had a look at those polars? Makes sense that the 30 is faster in strong winds at certain angles?

 

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On 2/23/2020 at 2:35 AM, JL92S said:

That’s a little unfair to the boats that are good but rate well!

I was in a grumpy mood because I'm genuinely concerned that I will have to settle for something more racer than cruiser.  I do race,  I do want to get my zoom on, but I also want to do some cruising too;  a J/111 just seems a little spartan.  Few boats check as many boxes as a Pogo except for that rating which seems like an artificial limitation so that's where my complaint lies.  PHRF in my region so I have a work-around but who can tell what the future holds.


That idea about buying in Europe and starting a grand tour there certainly has appeal.  I know which boat I would prefer to apply to the task of trade-wind sailing.

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On 2/23/2020 at 4:41 AM, Mais78 said:

Congrats on your 36! Care to share your configuration?

Just moved up to slot 63.  I'll post a spreadsheet with everything after I get back from visiting Pogo this June.  I'm getting all of the performance features but I'm still trying to figure out the cruising comforts - what I really need vs what would be nice to have.

 

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I think the Pogo boats are amazing for what they are.  Fast cruisers that are FUN.

However, because of the rating hits -- I just have a hard time seeing them be competitive in IRC or PHRF.  With that said, I would buy one in second if the ratings were competitive. 

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Agreed. If you want a fast cruiser you buy Pogo. If you want a fast racer you buy JPK. If you want the best looking boat (priced within reason) you buy Solaris.

Simple :)

 

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1 hour ago, LI_sailor said:

I think the Pogo boats are amazing for what they are.  Fast cruisers that are FUN.

However, because of the rating hits -- I just have a hard time seeing them be competitive in IRC or PHRF.  With that said, I would buy one in second if the ratings were competitive. 

well, IRC is on its way out in the USA

PHRF will probably never be friendly to these boats.

ORC is being used more and more in the USA - at least on the east coast - and  looks at least a bit better for these boats- especially if they use PCS.., but even triple number might give them more of a shot.

There are no ratings for the Pogo 36 on the ORC website. the only Pogos for which I saw ORC international certificates (and thus polar and target speeds) are the class 40 and the 12.50. The 12.50 didn't look terrible. at TWS=6kts, the DW target TWA is 143 and the target BSP is 4.9kts  - that seems like it might be achievable

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PHRF is a work-around.  There is one Pogo 36 racing PHRF in SF that rate 69 which isn't too awful.  Shhh...  don't tell anybody I said that, I'd hate to make life hard on somebody who doesn't deserve it.

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41 minutes ago, Teener said:

PHRF is a work-around.  There is one Pogo 36 racing PHRF in SF that rate 69 which isn't too awful.  Shhh...  don't tell anybody I said that, I'd hate to make life hard on somebody who doesn't deserve it.

Wait, only 3 seconds faster than an express 37?

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33 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Wait, only 3 seconds faster than an express 37?

Yeah. Either a gift rating or the POGO is much more of a pig than the breathless hype would lead one to believe. My old school $5000 11:metre had that same SF rating.

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What do you expect?

Boats like the Express, giant lapper, running backs, symmetrical spinnakers, and numerous crew positions are designed to go straight up wind and straight down wind as fast as possible at hull speed.  The Pogo is going to have to cover a bit more distance over the same course.  If they both get there at the same time, I'd rather be on the boat moving through the water faster.

That 11 meter is a totally stripped down racer.  It sounds like a wonderful boat to sail (no sarcasm intended) especially if one considers that weighs less than half the Pogo.

I guess we should be disappointed if it  can't keep pace with a Farr 40 (sarcasm intended).  After all they have the same waterline and it gives up a ton to the Pogo.

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Lol how so?

Is that ladder from Pogo or you fitted it yourself?

Is there a gangway option for the med? I think I have seen a few DIY solutions on youtube...

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Hot water, 2 showers, working odour free toilet, bathroom door, endless fresh water, plenty of cold wine, comfortable bunks, good music and intelligent conversation = Lady friendly.

Also, the lady pictured is the owner... Speaks five languages, earns 6 figures, is under 40, and can trim a gennaker better than most guys I know.

 

Boarding ladder is a temporary measure until the carbon/kevlar one is ready. Certainly not a permanent fixture.

Gangway. Dunno. on infinity they simply carry a plank that is lashed across the open transom when sailing. 

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PS Bimini solution also looks interesting :-)

Haven’t seen the official one so far

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2 hours ago, DrWatson said:

gallery_123_40_1224042.jpg

Among her many talents, FIREFLY is lady friendly ...

 

Beautiful!  And nice boat too.

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11 hours ago, Mais78 said:

PS Bimini solution also looks interesting :-)

Haven’t seen the official one so far

Yeah, it's another stop-gap solution. The aft poles are held in custom carbon brackets - and a Sunbrella boom tent has been commissioned to replace the wrong sized box-store tarp.. It's essentially a variation on the "official boom tent" of which there are various pics floating around the web (can't find any at the moment). Our setup is slightly lighter (brackets especially).

11 hours ago, Mais78 said:

Thanks. And congrats on the wife.

Can't really complain :)

 

 

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Could not find any pic either. Will ask the yard.

Now I also need to find a wife that buys me a Pogo, pretty jealous.

How do you like the boat so far? What main options did you choose? Carbon mast, swing keel..

 

PS Ladder and bimini: you were not happy with the yard's standard offer?

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3 hours ago, Mais78 said:

Could not find any pic either. Will ask the yard.

Now I also need to find a wife that buys me a Pogo, pretty jealous.

How do you like the boat so far? What main options did you choose? Carbon mast, swing keel..

 

PS Ladder and bimini: you were not happy with the yard's standard offer?

There are plenty of wives out there who might buy one for you, but they're probably someone elses...

 

Standard Bimini (it's a boom tent) and boarding ladder are fine. Nothing wrong with them at all,  we just wanted something a little different.

Boat is pretty damn good and we (she) is pretty happy - our options incl:

  • Carbon Mast and laminate Sail package
  • Full NKE AP, 9"Zeus3, AIS + WiFi
  • Lifting keel
  • Vinylester hull
  • Watermaker (yeah it's "heavy" but lighter than extra tankage) and we saved 30kg with the battery...
  • LiFePO4 + Solarpanel
  • Comfort mattresses and custom colour
  • 3 cabin model but with a wet locker instead of the cabin furniture in the Aft Stb cabin, and no forward cabin door - just the sailcloth blinds.
  • SprayDodger
  • AnchorWindlass
  • Beaching Legs

Made the boat about 200 kg heavier than std. We're predominantly cruising at the mo, so the bit extra is ok - she's still fast, very fast, as a cruiser, but we're working on the weight reduction scheme now. I foresee some foam composite paneling being made in my future.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, DrWatson said:

 

Made the boat about 200 kg heavier than std. We're predominantly cruising at the mo, so the bit extra is ok - she's still fast, very fast, as a cruiser, but we're working on the weight reduction scheme now. I foresee some foam composite paneling being made in my future.

 

 

Make sure you post plenty of pics if you go down the route, its something I'd like to have a crack at one day. 

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45 minutes ago, DrWatson said:

There are plenty of wives out there who might buy one for you, but they're probably someone elses...

 

Standard Bimini (it's a boom tent) and boarding ladder are fine. Nothing wrong with them at all,  we just wanted something a little different.

Boat is pretty damn good and we (she) is pretty happy - our options incl:

  • Carbon Mast and laminate Sail package
  • Full NKE AP, 9"Zeus3, AIS + WiFi
  • Lifting keel
  • Vinylester hull
  • Watermaker (yeah it's "heavy" but lighter than extra tankage) and we saved 30kg with the battery...
  • LiFePO4 + Solarpanel
  • Comfort mattresses and custom colour
  • 3 cabin model but with a wet locker instead of the cabin furniture in the Aft Stb cabin, and no forward cabin door - just the sailcloth blinds.
  • SprayDodger
  • AnchorWindlass
  • Beaching Legs

Made the boat about 200 kg heavier than std. We're predominantly cruising at the mo, so the bit extra is ok - she's still fast, very fast, as a cruiser, but we're working on the weight reduction scheme now. I foresee some foam composite paneling being made in my future.

 

 

Thanks, have a pic of the wet locker?

I don’t want to put doors either, still I wanted to add the additional bulkhead for the fwd cabin to separate it from the toilet area (think a guest going to the toilet at night). Is that what you did or did without bulkhead altogether?

Foam panelling where? 
 

thanks

 

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13 minutes ago, Mais78 said:

Thanks, have a pic of the wet locker?

I don’t want to put doors either, still I wanted to add the additional bulkhead for the fwd cabin to separate it from the toilet area (think a guest going to the toilet at night). Is that what you did or did without bulkhead altogether?

Foam panelling where? 
 

thanks

 

Will look for a pic of the wet locker tonight. 

We left out the optional forward bulkhead. It makes the forward cabin more use able as it increases open space in that area. the bulkhead reduces it. I think the bulkhead was intended as a concession to those who will charter out their boat. There's a cloth panel that can be used to separate that area off from the bathroom annex.

The boat still has a wooden interior, for looks and comfort. A lot of that timber could be replaced if one were so inclined. There could be some reasonable weight savings, but to be economically worth it, you'd need to do it yourself, which means being a bit good with vacuum bagging and mold making, and having th eballs to give it a go

 

 

 

 

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Yes saw some pics of with and without bulkhead. I prefer the former but have to see in real life. Have chartered one in June that should have it and one in August without.

Do you use the front cabin as owner cabin? If not there is no point of having that additional bulkhead. If you do, I think that half length curtain offers little privacy without bulkhead, but just my opinion.

NKE: did you go for high frequency GPS and racing compass?

Timber: it looked very think on the Pogo 30 I saw at Boot, not sure how much wait you will save, might not be worth the effort.

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1 hour ago, DrWatson said:

We left out the optional forward bulkhead. It makes the forward cabin more use able as it increases open space in that area. the bulkhead reduces it. I think the bulkhead was intended as a concession to those who will charter out their boat. There's a cloth panel that can be used to separate that area off from the bathroom annex.

i looked on the website, but didn't see the alternate layout options

is there an option to delete both the forward head and the forward bulkhead.., and go with a head starboard aft behind the nav station.., with storage aft of that head?

that would make the most sense to me.

you get a head far away from any sleeping cabins.., often the head can be a bit larger in this location.., and you get a wet locker at the bottom of the companionway steps

you do potentially lose a berth on the high side.., but for offshore, you still have the settees, so always at least one berth on the high side

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10 minutes ago, us7070 said:

 

is there an option to delete both the forward head and the forward bulkhead.., and go with a head starboard aft behind the nav station.., with storage aft of that head?

As far as I’m aware this is not a standard option and would really inhibit access to both the engine and the technical area under the cockpit. Additionally I don’t think there’s the space in that area to mount an effective heads. Were very happy with our wet locker.

 

additionally I’m not sure that the centerline longitudinal (being the centerline wall) that the forward heads  provide can be so easily done away with. 
If you want that layout I think you need to go to a larger boat ie the 12.50.

 

2 hours ago, Mais78 said:

Do you use the front cabin as owner cabin? If not there is no point of having that additional bulkhead. If you do, I think that half length curtain offers little privacy without bulkhead, but just my opinion.

NKE: did you go for high frequency GPS and racing compass?

Timber: it looked very think on the Pogo 30 I saw at Boot, not sure how much wait you will save, might not be worth the effort.

Yes when we’re cruising bay hopping with friends we use the forward  as the owner cabin. It’s only in the evening that guests might use the head while you’re there - blokes pee off the stern at night and the ladies are discrete using the heads. I prefer the setup we have because when we’re not with guests, which is much more often, then it’s more like our private  suite. 

we’ve little kids so privacy ( true privacy) is a long Lost thing. 


were I to change anything I’d shift the main pressure pump to under the galley. Sure you’d add the weight of a couple meters extra pipe but your get the pump away from the bulkhead against which your pillow sits. 
 

NKE: we’ve the standard gps and compass, I think it’s adequate for our needs. But if I’d had a little longer to save I would have pitched for the higher spec stuff. Things still need to go past the purchasing committee and the capital expenditure chairperson....

 

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Pogos are very unlikely to get competitive ratings under any system, so don't buy one to win races.

Lift keel will be much better come resale. I have sold quite a few....

Yard can be stubborn about customisation but persistence and well thought out and presented proposals can sway them.

Accept the concept and keep the boat as light as you can.

Enjoy going smokingly fast without effort or panic.

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1 hour ago, cms said:

Yard can be stubborn about customisation but persistence and well thought out and presented proposals can sway them.

Accept the concept and keep the boat as light as you can.

Enjoy going smokingly fast without effort or panic.

I wouldn’t call it stubborn. I’d say simply that they know their shit and they know it good. The sales woman used to race a class 6.50 and now through a funny deal of the cards races a different but very fast boat. She’s likely to beat 95% of you around any given course. The yard know their shit because they don’t just go to work and diva job, by TV they live sailing at a level most of us could only dream about.

If you go to Them with a bunch of half baked ideas, they’ll carefully and patiently sort through them and ask you to justify them. and fair enough. Their experience is not to be easily dismissed. And as much as we all like to think we all know best and that our own experiences are tougher or whatever, it’s only once you spend a bit of time in Brittany that you  really start to understand why it is that the French completely rule the iMoca and class 40,  ultimes etc. Sailing is to Brittany what rugby is to NZ or gun violence is to the US. They live and breath it at a level that we could only hope to imagine. They know what works and what doesn’t, and they likely know what you need better than you do yourself. 

 

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1 hour ago, DrWatson said:

I wouldn’t call it stubborn. I’d say simply that they know their shit and they know it good. The sales woman used to race a class 6.50 and now through a funny deal of the cards races a different but very fast boat. She’s likely to beat 95% of you around any given course. The yard know their shit because they don’t just go to work and diva job, by TV they live sailing at a level most of us could only dream about.

If you go to Them with a bunch of half baked ideas, they’ll carefully and patiently sort through them and ask you to justify them. and fair enough. Their experience is not to be easily dismissed. And as much as we all like to think we all know best and that our own experiences are tougher or whatever, it’s only once you spend a bit of time in Brittany that you  really start to understand why it is that the French completely rule the iMoca and class 40,  ultimes etc. Sailing is to Brittany what rugby is to NZ or gun violence is to the US. They live and breath it at a level that we could only hope to imagine. They know what works and what doesn’t, and they likely know what you need better than you do yourself. 

 

And whilst podiums may come along every now and then, the smiles are there every time....F661F4B7-4C9C-4F23-8647-387B28F9CB0E.thumb.jpeg.7b0806f4cea09e2d6ec8418703289ab5.jpeg

 

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Pogos are very unlikely to get competitive ratings under any system, so don't buy one to win races.

Lift keel will be much better come resale. I have sold quite a few....

Yard can be stubborn about customisation but persistence and well thought out and presented proposals can sway them.

Accept the concept and keep the boat as light as you can.

Enjoy going smokingly fast without effort or panic.

<<ref above, note bold can be. You do not need to lecture me about the yard's competence. I know a lot of owners and have sailed and sold a whole bunch of different models. Like many builders they put huge effort into their product, no argument, and like so many they resist change driven from outside. Don't take umbrage! Just saying....

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2 hours ago, some dude said:

Whats it rate?

Look upthread, start reading at msg #131.

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On 2/28/2020 at 5:31 PM, us7070 said:

i looked on the website, but didn't see the alternate layout options

is there an option to delete both the forward head and the forward bulkhead.., and go with a head starboard aft behind the nav station.., with storage aft of that head?

that would make the most sense to me.

you get a head far away from any sleeping cabins.., often the head can be a bit larger in this location.., and you get a wet locker at the bottom of the companionway steps

you do potentially lose a berth on the high side.., but for offshore, you still have the settees, so always at least one berth on the high side

here are the pics with and without the additional bulkhead

 

Without: toilet and cabin in the same quarters

2037176993_dooropen3.png.25bf71fd775c807e1fee253936f68950.png

With bulkhead: the fore cabin separate from the toilet. Better when you have guests and you use the fore cabin as master cabin IMHO

131753773_dooropen2.thumb.png.3d751a06e9fd175614c550496c6379bb.png1304369787_dooropen1.thumb.png.449c742c9826e16eaaec3c3e177c6c8f.png

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On a separate note, has anyone seen any rendering of the new Pogo 44 that should replace the 12.50? It should be out soon.

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1 hour ago, Mais78 said:

On a separate note, has anyone seen any rendering of the new Pogo 44 that should replace the 12.50? It should be out soon.

top secret. I don't think there are any renderings on the web. I think you have to go to the yard and see whatever there might be to see.

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10 minutes ago, DrWatson said:

top secret. I don't think there are any renderings on the web. I think you have to go to the yard and see whatever there might be to see.

Hopefully some people from the 36 waiting list will decide to upgrade and I will get my 36 sooner!

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2 hours ago, Mais78 said:

On a separate note, has anyone seen any rendering of the new Pogo 44 that should replace the 12.50? It should be out soon.

I wonder if it will share the hull of the new 40 S4 but extended or be an entirely new hull

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7 hours ago, JL92S said:

I wonder if it will share the hull of the new 40 S4 but extended or be an entirely new hull

Is some 40S4 announced?

More generally will they discontinue making a 40ft cruiser/racer?

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Just now, CbrosTheDude said:

Is some 40S4 announced?

More generally will they discontinue making a 40ft cruiser/racer?

I have no news regarding that but they must be making one, the s3 is out of production, only making the mini as racer atm.

Then you have the cruiser line with boats 6-8 feet apart. Don’t think they will make a 40 between the 36 and 44

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1 hour ago, Mais78 said:

I have no news regarding that but they must be making one, the s3 is out of production, only making the mini as racer atm.

Then you have the cruiser line with boats 6-8 feet apart. Don’t think they will make a 40 between the 36 and 44

I'm not sure a modern class40 hull will do as well for a cruising boat as they used to. Also I don't have a good idea about how well the 40s3 sold or raced but developping a hull solely for a raceboat probably isn't as lucrative in the class40 as in the mini class for pogo. Also there is no doubt a Pogo 44 cruiser will sell well hence my question about a 40s4 developpment

Also I thought builders would usually do regular splits in price rather than size in their range, which makes such a big step akward

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Launching early 2021 and it will be a Verdier design. Current estimated price of €410k excl VAT. Includes running rigging package, ballast system etc. But not including instruments or sails. The class 40 market has exploded again and yards are running out of build space so Pogo have decided to enter the market space again

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Pogo 44 renderings are out, looks like a bigger Pogo 36 with a fixed bowsprit. Check Voile Magazine IG account

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It is a 42 without the bowsprit, so for sure will replace the 12.50 

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The yard just sent me all the details, 271k EUR + VAT

 

Looks beautiful inside

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On 2/28/2020 at 10:28 AM, DrWatson said:

Will look for a pic of the wet locker tonight. 

We left out the optional forward bulkhead. It makes the forward cabin more use able as it increases open space in that area. the bulkhead reduces it. I think the bulkhead was intended as a concession to those who will charter out their boat. There's a cloth panel that can be used to separate that area off from the bathroom annex.

The boat still has a wooden interior, for looks and comfort. A lot of that timber could be replaced if one were so inclined. There could be some reasonable weight savings, but to be economically worth it, you'd need to do it yourself, which means being a bit good with vacuum bagging and mold making, and having th eballs to give it a go

 

 

 

 

I think this is the wet locker

21 Fzi0AzZQ.jpeg

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On 2/22/2020 at 3:07 PM, Mais78 said:

Thanks, it is for long cruises solo with some adrenaline. I might do some races at some point but not interested in optimising the boat for that.

Shipyard claims with swing keel it is lighter (350kg) and faster. Interestingly on the 30 instead they say no difference in performance as the weight is the same (but then you will have more righting moment as swing is deeper??).

Have some time before I have to make my mind but I think I will go for swing, also for convenience. I could also change my mind completely if something else comes out in the next year or so (have 6 months before the slot to cancel).

Have considered also JPK38FC and J112E, but prefer the Pogo 36 (we can discuss why..).

Hi May78,

I am seriously considering buying a Pogo 36 for my retirement (in 4 years). My programme would be north-atlantic tour, maybe med tour with my wife. I still have though to convince her that renting a boat would not do...

I understand you considered both JPK 38 FC and Pogo 36 and you finally opted for the Pogo.

Would you share how you would compare both vessels and why you opted for the Pogo?

 

 

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On 4/3/2020 at 3:52 PM, Lionel M said:

Hi May78,

I am seriously considering buying a Pogo 36 for my retirement (in 4 years). My programme would be north-atlantic tour, maybe med tour with my wife. I still have though to convince her that renting a boat would not do...

I understand you considered both JPK 38 FC and Pogo 36 and you finally opted for the Pogo.

Would you share how you would compare both vessels and why you opted for the Pogo?

 

 

They are both very capable. Maybe the JPK is more balanced in terms of upwind/downwind performance, they say.

I went for the Pogo mainly for design reasons (and it is also cheaper and a newer project): you get a third cabin vs two + technical room, you get a proper bathroom (in general I feel the Pogo makes the most of its 36 feet vs the 38 of the JPK, feels more roomy despite being smaller and also higher quality interiors), also the Pogo was born for single handing (which is what I ll be doing most of the time, look at the design of the cockpit and winches vs JPK)

Hope this helps, they are both really nice boats   

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