Bob Perry

Dave's perfect sailboat

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I'm with you there on the windows Tom. I think two slightly larger windows aft with the same proportions as the smaller ones forward would be better yet.

 

 

...Yes - I like that, too. :)

 

gallery_75266_1131_31248.jpg

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With regards to the ports, there is a good sized head to Port and an aft cabin to starboard. I also wanted all opening port, no fixed windows.

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Some people think we just sprinkle random porltlight sizes where we feel like it. That is not how it works. Portlights receive a lot of thought.

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Bob and I are starting a project aimed at this sort of response here on CA. It will be called the 'Mr Potato Head Yacht Design' application and will come with a catalog of ports and such that one can just stick anywhere you want and not bother with Photoshopping the renders that he and I share here.

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Understood Bob. I'm so anal about the portlights, I try doing what I can to move bulkheads around just to get the portlights looking the way I like them. That said, I'm surprised that I actually like your "random sprinkling" on this boat. ;) I think I am so traumatized by the hideous Hunter windows (I don't even dare call them portlights; they get suburban names like other Hunter features -- bathrooms, kitchens, living rooms...) I can't bear the thought of unevenly spacing them. You have pulled off the uneven spacing smartly, as we've come to expect from the Meastro.

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With regards to the ports, there is a good sized head to Port and an aft cabin to starboard. I also wanted all opening port, no fixed windows.

 

I understand. I was just musing how I'd want it when I imagine having a boat designed for me..

Port lights are HUGE in how a boat looks - so much so, that I would compromise in other areas to achieve "the look" ...But that's just me.

I love your boat's design, and am sure it will exceeed your expecations. I do understand how other higher priorities can affect "the look".

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I just love going below on a production boat and seeing when a portlight or more often a sidelight spans a bulkhead. Not so here.

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Bob and I are starting a project aimed at this sort of response here on CA. It will be called the 'Mr Potato Head Yacht Design' application and will come with a catalog of ports and such that one can just stick anywhere you want and not bother with Photoshopping the renders that he and I share here.

 

...Can you include multiple keels (shoal, centerboard, etc.), multiple rigs (masthead, fractional, cutter, yawl, ketch), and multiple rudders (skeg, spade, shoal) too, so that those of us in shallow water areas can come up with whole new designs? :D

 

(..Ok, I'll stop drawing on your drawings - no offense was intended. :) )

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Rasper,

Do you think they take the bulkhead-spanning windows into account in the structural design, or are they just clueless?

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Tom,

 

MPHYD (Mr Potato Head Yacht Design) will have a very comprehensive library of any yacht component you might want to sprinkle about the parent hulls that will be available. You imagination is the only limit!

 

Rasp

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The slim stern is like a throwback to an earlier era.

The cockpit is based on the Tartan. The wheel is 44" and should be the perfect arm's length distance when sitting outboard. I spent three years measuring everything on the Tartan and telling Bob what worked and didn't work for me. Bob then designed the boat to fit me like a pair of custom built shoes.

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Got to put something in the dude's hands. A magazine, a fish, etch-a-sketch. Something. Just looks weird with his arms stuck out like that.

 

I thought he was reaching for the wench handles .....

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I just love going below on a production boat and seeing when a portlight or more often a sidelight spans a bulkhead. Not so here.

I'm just about to glue in a substantial beam across the boat that goes across a side window opening. No choice unfortunately.

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Alcy:

Maybe you could glue in a "header" running fore and aft above the window and have the beam butt into that to spread the load out.

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Pointy toed shoes with high heels, a cross between cowboy boots and Elton John disco slippers.

 

We called them "Beatle boots" in 1964. I had a set of high-heeled black patent pointy boots. They were hell on feet.

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I'm with you there on the windows Tom. I think two slightly larger windows aft with the same proportions as the smaller ones forward would be better yet.

 

 

...Yes - I like that, too. :)

 

gallery_75266_1131_31248.jpg

 

I agree that this looks better and it would be my first choice in ports, but it just would not work with the interior that I wanted. I think I made Bob draw every possible combination of ports you could think of, but the one we have now just works the best. I demanded all opening ports, to get the max ventilation into the boat. I think the arrangement we have now is a close second best.

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You are right Sponge. He bothered me too. He originally was seated at the helm. I guess I could put a drone cam in his hands or a iPad for navigation. He could fondle the girl for that matter...

 

lKA0FRm.png

 

Bob wants me to find a Scandinavian girl for the boats.

 

Nice butt, but her breasts could be a little smaller.

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Are those cockpit seats long enough to lie down on?

That would all depend on how tall you are, wouldn't it? I am 6'6" tall, there aren't too many cockpit benches long enough for me to lie down on.

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Re portlight arrangement, Peter Bruuns designed boats get my vote.

 

I like Bauhaus design, I guess.

 

large_img0006_453423478.jpg

01-02-okt.-020.jpg

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Bob wants me to find a Scandinavian girl for the boats.

 

Easy!

 

Its mindblowing how things can be rendered like that nowadays.

 

post-121080-0-36590500-1460463291_thumb.jpg

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Re portlight arrangement, Peter Bruuns designed boats get my vote.

 

I like Bauhaus design, I guess.

 

large_img0006_453423478.jpg01-02-okt.-020.jpg

Shame about the bow ..

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Nope,

A good musician does not want to play LOUIS LOUIS all his life.

 

to my eye that change to the portlights does not look better. It does look like what your eye expects to see.

" Play LOUIS LOUIS once again for me Bob. Are you sure that dominant should be a minor chord?"

 

And clearly that is the knee jerk portlight placement and arrangement. That is precisely why I don't like it.

Once again, if I may be so bold, think Beethoven's Grosse Fuge Opus 133. The public hated it. They hated it so much that in short time he was forced to rewrite that movement with one more
"accessible" to the public's ear. ( LUDWIG LUDWIG) The new movement would be just what the public did expect. No challenges to it. No surprises to it just same old same old, done by Beethoven. So today, guess which movement is considered the masterpiece? Guess which movement is now put back into the quartet. In fact today the Grosse Fuge is considered the crowning achievement of all string quartet writing.

 

So no, the portlghts look perfect, to my eye and that's all I care about. I have faith in my eye.

If you take the time to go back through my previous designs you will find that I have used this arrangement many times. Yes. it's different, that's why I use it. I like it.

 

If you do a custom boat, you can have the portlights any way you like them.

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Leggs:

 

Cockpit seats are 6'4.5" long. That is a foot more than Dave's wife needs.

 

Ish:

I had some too and you are right. They were not comfortable. Mine were even less comfortable because I could not get them bigger than a size 12 so I just jammed my then 13's into the boots.

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Leggs:

 

Cockpit seats are 6'4.5" long. That is a foot more than Dave's wife needs.

 

Ish:

I had some too and you are right. They were not comfortable. Mine were even less comfortable because I could not get them bigger than a size 12 so I just jammed my then 13's into the boots.

Damn, another inch and a half and I would fit.

 

 

I bought a pair of cowboy boots when I lived in Texas. I didn't think the extremely pointy toe would be comfortable but to my amazement they feel fine. I have had them for more then 20 years now, they have been resoled twice. People in Europe love it when I wear them, they seem to be fascinated with the cowboy culture in the US.

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I think that this hull would work very well here (western channel) as too often we get a messy chop and I imagine this boat quite powerful and good at "slicing" through the mess. The keel bulb looks massive to me, presumably it has already been designed so presumably my eyes or my brain lied to me. I like how water line is still quite long without scarificing to the plumb bow and stern fashion.

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A pair of winches all the way aft ? Havent seen that before....

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Plen:

Winches aft is pretty common on racing boats where the runners are often lead to those winches. For Dave these winches will be added later when we determine we really need them, i.e. are we racing? They can come in andy for stern to mooring also which we do in the islands up here on occasion.

 

Pano:

As I said before, the keel is a "place holder". That's all. You cannot design the keel until you have finished the weight study and we are doing that now. What would be the point of designing the keel before you knew what weight you had available for ballast?

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Nope,

A good musician does not want to play LOUIS LOUIS all his life.

 

to my eye that change to the portlights does not look better. It does look like what your eye expects to see.

" Play LOUIS LOUIS once again for me Bob. Are you sure that dominant should be a minor chord?"

 

And clearly that is the knee jerk portlight placement and arrangement. That is precisely why I don't like it.

Once again, if I may be so bold, think Beethoven's Grosse Fuge Opus 133. The public hated it. They hated it so much that in short time he was forced to rewrite that movement with one more

"accessible" to the public's ear. ( LUDWIG LUDWIG) The new movement would be just what the public did expect. No challenges to it. No surprises to it just same old same old, done by Beethoven. So today, guess which movement is considered the masterpiece? Guess which movement is now put back into the quartet. In fact today the Grosse Fuge is considered the crowning achievement of all string quartet writing.

 

So no, the portlghts look perfect, to my eye and that's all I care about. I have faith in my eye.

If you take the time to go back through my previous designs you will find that I have used this arrangement many times. Yes. it's different, that's why I use it. I like it.

 

If you do a custom boat, you can have the portlights any way you like them.

 

good analogy. :D

 

Your placement of portlights is hard to criticise. At the same I think it is much harder to make a modern Rap that may work for other people than young ones. Something new and cool..

 

Tom's suggestion - not so much, its like mixing hard rock and Classic together. ;)

 

But as Tom said, the life is too short to get annoyed of something of "batch production" when one could make own custom one. Dave must be happy to get a boat he wants exactly.

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Pano:

As I said before, the keel is a "place holder". That's all. You cannot design the keel until you have finished the weight study and we are doing that now. What would be the point of designing the keel before you knew what weight you had available for ballast?

 

Missed this, the noise to signal ratio is high on CA, can't read everything! With all these talks of portholes, I assumed that you were much further down the design spiral.

 

So have you just got a target displacement and righting moment just ends up being function of that ?

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Tommy:

Bob doesn't like rap. I got as far as STRAIGHT OUT OF COMPTON then I quit. Phillip Glass and Charles Ives are as close as I get to rap these days.

 

When you make that big decision to become a "designer" a lot of that decision is based ion the feeling that you know how to do it better. If you don't have that feeling, what's the point? " I can do it the same." That' doesn't work for me.

 

Shortly after I met Yves-Marie I began the Valiant 40 design. When I showed the lines to Yves-Marie and Chuck Paine ( we were working together at the time) one of them said to me, I forget which one, "Do you really think a boat should be shaped like that?" Those were the exact words. I forget my reply but I assume it was "Yes." And, whoop de doo,,,I was right. That was one way a boat should be shaped. My way conglomerated from many designs I had admired over the years.

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Once upon a time, cabins were much higher with big portlights aft:

 

byinslip.jpg

 

Narrow side decks too.

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Re: Portlights

Since Bob and I are on a strict budget for the boat, the cost of the ports is important. I would like to use Hood Yacht Systems Stainless Ports for function and looks. But there is a limited number of choices in sizes. We looked at using strictly stock size ports for all the ports but it just looked too plain to my eye. So right now the 3 large ports on each side are going to be custom made, but as close to stock as I can get.

I am really trying to keep the cost affordable.

The most interesting about this affordability goal is that I think I can build a custom boat for about the same as a comparable production boat [comparable in size, performance, quality, features, etc.]. Obviously LUCKY GIRL is going to cost more than a Beneteau or Catalina, but less than a Hinckley or a Morris [and on up]

This is just a fascinating scenario. Given that modern custom fiberglass construction is so efficient we could be repeating the Golden Era of the custom sailing yacht, before fiberglass came along. Imagine being able to go to Bob and Jim Betts and get a high quality custom boat exactly the way you want it, at less than the cost of a new stock Swan.

LUCKY GIRL has a very individual interior layout. But it is not one I can find in a production boat. It is worth it to me to get the Perry/Betts quality matched with the design features that I want.

Think of how much fun it would be to get away from the almost universal look of most production boats to that the boat you chose to go sailing in reflects a personal choice and not the dictates of a marketing committee [high freeboard, no side decks, plumb bows, wide sterns and on and on]. This are just not features that I want on my boat.

I hate walking through a marina and having all the boats look the same, with the only variable the length of the boat. Who was it that said that "variety is the spice of life"?

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I am really trying to keep the cost affordable.

The most interesting about this affordability goal is that I think I can build a custom boat for about the same as a comparable production boat [comparable in size, performance, quality, features, etc.]. Obviously LUCKY GIRL is going to cost more than a Beneteau or Catalina, but less than a Hinckley or a Morris [and on up].

Good luck Dave..............

 

I am skeptical.

 

But Jim can do it if anyone can, provided you behave and do not make changes along the way.

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Got to put something in the dude's hands. A magazine, a fish, etch-a-sketch. Something. Just looks weird with his arms stuck out like that.

I thought he was reaching for the wench handles .....

 

That was my thought too, I wonder if anyone else got the joke?

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Once upon a time, cabins were much higher with big portlights aft:

 

byinslip.jpg

 

Narrow side decks too.

This old Columbia 26 is at Pirates Cove in Galesville, MD. It has been there for years. I recognize the restaurant's deck where I have enjoyed some good times. It is hard to imagine an uglier boat.

 

Mike Meier

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She looks like a Chinese beach volleyball player.

 

what's wrong with that?

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Pano:

As I said before, the keel is a "place holder". That's all. You cannot design the keel until you have finished the weight study and we are doing that now. What would be the point of designing the keel before you knew what weight you had available for ballast?

 

Missed this, the noise to signal ratio is high on CA, can't read everything! With all these talks of portholes, I assumed that you were much further down the design spiral.

 

So have you just got a target displacement and righting moment just ends up being function of that ?

 

Uh oh, here we go again.

 

We need a "lessons from Bob" searchable index...

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Got to put something in the dude's hands. A magazine, a fish, etch-a-sketch. Something. Just looks weird with his arms stuck out like that.

 

I thought he was reaching for the wench handles .....

That was my thought too, I wonder if anyone else got the joke?

Of course we did!

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I am really trying to keep the cost affordable.

The most interesting about this affordability goal is that I think I can build a custom boat for about the same as a comparable production boat [comparable in size, performance, quality, features, etc.]. Obviously LUCKY GIRL is going to cost more than a Beneteau or Catalina, but less than a Hinckley or a Morris [and on up].

Good luck Dave..............

 

I am skeptical.

 

But Jim can do it if anyone can, provided you behave and do not make changes along the way.

 

 

you could save a lot of money.., if you just buy a J/44 and have someone change the transom to be like the one bob designed for you

 

sure, it's a mast head rig, but so what?

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Got to put something in the dude's hands. A magazine, a fish, etch-a-sketch. Something. Just looks weird with his arms stuck out like that.

I thought he was reaching for the wench handles .....

That was my thought too, I wonder if anyone else got the joke?

Of course we did!

 

 

Of course we did!

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70:

Look at the layout. You are missing the entire point of this design. It's all in the details. Don't make me come down there. I'm in a bad mood as this photo of me, taken late yesterday afternoon, clearly shows. The US Postal Service "lost" my thumb drive with all the files on it I need for my talk tonight in Olympia. This means I'll have to get up there with a thrown together, last minute powerpoint presentation and just wing it. Wait just a minute,,,that's what I always do!

 

samurai-14_zpsu3n7gpai.jpg

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You are right Sponge. He bothered me too. He originally was seated at the helm. I guess I could put a drone cam in his hands or a iPad for navigation. He could fondle the girl for that matter...

 

lKA0FRm.png

 

Bob wants me to find a Scandinavian girl for the boats.

 

Nice butt, but her breasts could be a little smaller.

 

 

My technical contribution for today: Just like this is Dave's perfect boat, those are her perfect breasts.

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I did look at J44 and a J42 and they are just not close enough to what I wanted.My interior is completely different. The J42 was really my target boat. I like my new boat much better, enough to pay for the difference.

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Pano:

"So have you just got a target displacement and righting moment just ends up being function of that ?"

I wouldn't quite say it as succinctly as that. It's a complex process. There is a lot of "estimating" in the early stages of the design process. You need to acquaint yourself with the "design spiral". It shows graphically how the design process works., I go into it in detail in my book, if you are really interested.

Try to keep up.

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i was joking...

 

but i went back and looked - layout B and C are very like a J/44 - the first one, not actually labeled "A", but i guess it's A, is a lot different

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70:

"A" is Dave's layout. You can look all you like but I don't think you will find that layout in another boat and that gets right to the heart of why clients do custom boats.. The other layouts were to show, if anyone else was interested, that we can do a more conventional layout in that hull and deck.

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Dave/Bob,

 

First, she is a lovely ship. I really like the lines, and while I am not in the market, I could easily see something like this for a weekender for myself and wife.

 

I am always hesitant about making suggestions on a build thread like this, because you never know what has already been thought thru, versus what has been done because it is standard. So any suggestions are equally questions about how you got to where you are, not criticisms. Particularly at this early stage in the design, what I am seeing may just be placeholders not actual design decisions yet.

 

- Has any consideration been given to using a hard dodger instead of a fabric one? Since they tend to stay installed permanently no matter what the intention is, having a hard dodger from the get go would make a lot of sense. It may also allow moving the traveler to the top of the dodger, which has a different set of pluses and minuses.

 

- floating jib leads instead of jib cars and tracks.

 

- has any provision been made to fly a spinnaker? I could easily see a Code0 on a furler flying from a short prod instead of the larger overlapping headsail that I assume would require changing out sails.

 

-some comments were made up thread of a reduced draft version for a series build. Might I suggest something like the Pogo swing keel instead of a lifting (takes to much interior room), or a bulb. Pogo has done a wonderful job of hiding the mechanism in the salon table, and it even has a collision release for when 'someone' drives the boat into a sandbank.

 

 

Again I really like this boat so far. It seems to really dispense with the pretense of going long distance cruising, and instead is just a simple, beautiful, weekender. One of the most frustrating things to me is the number of boats that are sold for the dream of liveaboard cruising, that are used for daysails and weekends. By focusing on what people actually use their boats for the compromises seem to come out far in favor of what we would do. Frankly with no changes I think I would rather this than the Beneteau we wound up with, not sure it would have been in budget, but still...

 

Know you mentioned this before, but I really think this could have some serious market potential. A weekender for people who know they aren't going world cruising, but simply want a comfortable boat to speed a few days on at a time. I am seriously envious.

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Stumble:

To answer your questions:

Yes

No

Yes

No, keel is fixed and deep. We have zero draft concerns in the PNW.

 

I like your floating jib leads suggestion and I will evaluate that with Harken. Perhaps we can save some dough there. It does mean more lines coming aft though. We will check it out.

 

Thanks for that idea.

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I wasn't think of the swing keel for Dave, but if the boat were to be put into series production it might be a very nice way to go. It would allow a very deep draft while sailing, but rotates up when entering shallow waters. Here on the gulf coast it would be a very nice feature, in Florida/Bahamas it would almost seem critical. But then I am not a fan of most shoal draft options, the boats typically just feel heavy.

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Stumble:

I have contacted Harken re: floating jib leads. We'll see what they have to say about any cost difference. I like the floating leads bu I'm not sure if they would be in Dave's best interest. One of my close sailmaker friends once lectured me on why cruisers should not have adjustable leads,"They will just insure that the lead is never in the right place." Something to think about.

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I have a feeling that a hard dodger is in the distant future, but for now I am going to try and make a soft top fold-down dodger, so on the few days when it is nice in the Pacific Northwest I can fold the dodger down and catch some rays.

As for the keel, the plate that bolts the keel to the hull is fairly long, so we could do a shoal draft keel if I want to change keels [hell, I might move down to the Bahamas some day]

At Bob's suggestion I am going to use a carbon fiber mast from a Farr 40, which is a perfect fit. But taller and shorter rigs are possible.

Since the boat is built over a male mold that can be used more than once, there are lots of ways to custom the interior, keel and rig.

I have never waved from the aft head/forward galley/isolated engine room layout that I showed Bob after the move to a more conventional, longer [by 4'] boat.

I can't wait to have Bob put up the interior drawings, because there are some funny stories about that.

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Stumble:

I have contacted Harken re: floating jib leads. We'll see what they have to say about any cost difference. I like the floating leads bu I'm not sure if they would be in Dave's best interest. One of my close sailmaker friends once lectured me on why cruisers should not have adjustable leads,"They will just insure that the lead is never in the right place." Something to think about.

Let's not forget that this is an old man's boat.

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It seems to really dispense with the pretense of going long distance cruising, and instead is just a simple, beautiful, weekender. One of the most frustrating things to me is the number of boats that are sold for the dream of liveaboard cruising, that are used for daysails and weekends.

 

My thoughts exactly. I am going to have the boat built so that it could be taken offshore, but it is primarily a local boat designed to be a joy to sail and a joy to look at. If that makes it less than an ideal offshore boat, so be it.

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Dave:

That is what I meant by "Not in Dave's best interest." But I could teach you how to find the correct lead. I think if you can drive a Jensen-Healey you should be able to adjust leads.

We can talk about it on the way down today.

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Dave,

 

Floating leads are one of those things that really seem complicated until you use it for the first time then all of a sudden can't imagine going back. You have all the adjustment of a traditional car/track, but can very easily move the jib lead outboard as well. It's like always having a barberhaul installed. Crack off from upwind to a jib reach, and while easing the sheet you also ease the inboard lead line. It's like having a second jib track and car on the edge of the deck.

 

It's also cheaper, which is always a plus.

 

Then if you choose to ignore its there, meh, just set it to the pre marked upwind neutrals and off she goes.

 

There have been a number of discussions on SA about floating leads a Google search will turn up. Also see http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f116/dyneema-loops-blocks-as-an-alternative-to-a-jib-car-146801.htmlwith a discussion about them from someone who added them to his Moody 54. The end of the second page also has some really nice detailed pictures of one installation.

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Dave, your story is inspiring. Also, your attention to every detail is the way it should be. Good luck with this great looking boat.

 

Bob, I'm wondering about the Farr 40 mast. I helped step two of them in a campaign a few years ago. Yes their light and probably available on the cheap...but at least the regatta I was involved in had a 22 knot cutoff(match racing)and the main was never reefed. Of the top of my head I think 65ft? Would there be any concern with structural integrity in a high wind double reefed situation? Also...considering the different dynamics of each hull?

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Dave/Bob,

First, she is a lovely ship. I really like the lines, and while I am not in the market, I could easily see something like this for a weekender for myself and wife.

I am always hesitant about making suggestions on a build thread like this, because you never know what has already been thought thru, versus what has been done because it is standard. So any suggestions are equally questions about how you got to where you are, not criticisms. Particularly at this early stage in the design, what I am seeing may just be placeholders not actual design decisions yet.

- Has any consideration been given to using a hard dodger instead of a fabric one? Since they tend to stay installed permanently no matter what the intention is, having a hard dodger from the get go would make a lot of sense. It may also allow moving the traveler to the top of the dodger, which has a different set of pluses and minuses.

- floating jib leads instead of jib cars and tracks.

- has any provision been made to fly a spinnaker? I could easily see a Code0 on a furler flying from a short prod instead of the larger overlapping headsail that I assume would require changing out sails.

-some comments were made up thread of a reduced draft version for a series build. Might I suggest something like the Pogo swing keel instead of a lifting (takes to much interior room), or a bulb. Pogo has done a wonderful job of hiding the mechanism in the salon table, and it even has a collision release for when 'someone' drives the boat into a sandbank.

Again I really like this boat so far. It seems to really dispense with the pretense of going long distance cruising, and instead is just a simple, beautiful, weekender. One of the most frustrating things to me is the number of boats that are sold for the dream of liveaboard cruising, that are used for daysails and weekends. By focusing on what people actually use their boats for the compromises seem to come out far in favor of what we would do. Frankly with no changes I think I would rather this than the Beneteau we wound up with, not sure it would have been in budget, but still...

Know you mentioned this before, but I really think this could have some serious market potential. A weekender for people who know they aren't going world cruising, but simply want a comfortable boat to speed a few days on at a time. I am seriously envious.

I would be very happy with that layout for offshore cruising, it's not live aboard but that is a different sort of boat again.

 

Seems to me that people these days confuse long passage offshore boats with liveaboards, i prefer boats that can sail their way out of trouble.

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Bob, I'm wondering about the Farr 40 mast. I helped step two of them in a campaign a few years ago. Yes their light and probably available on the cheap...but at least the regatta I was involved in had a 22 knot cutoff(match racing)and the main was never reefed. Of the top of my head I think 65ft? Would there be any concern with structural integrity in a high wind double reefed situation? Also...considering the different dynamics of each hull?

 

Two words.

 

Francis Lee.

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Advocate,

 

Any more than two words?

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Advocate,

 

Any more than two words?

 

Francis Lee has a Farr 40 mast.

 

That's six words. Or five words and two numbers. One number if you think of 40 as a single number instead of a combination of two smaller numbers.

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Understood. What kinda mileage on Francis Lee?

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Understood. What kinda mileage on Francis Lee?

 

You'll have to ask Kim. I'm sure he has an odometer.

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Lets also not forget the plethora of Farr 40's that have been IRC'ed and are used offshore.

 

I've met this Bob designer guy, even stayed at his shack a few times.

 

I get the impression he has the whole RM thingy down pat.

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Once upon a time, cabins were much higher with big portlights aft:

 

byinslip.jpg

 

Narrow side decks too.

This old Columbia 26 is at Pirates Cove in Galesville, MD. It has been there for years. I recognize the restaurant's deck where I have enjoyed some good times. It is hard to imagine an uglier boat.

 

Mike Meier

 

 

I think it's a Columbia 24.

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Ishmael,

 

As of now I think of 40 as one number. Honest question about the f40 stick and didn't know Bob had spec'd it for previous designs...when I'm asking the question I'm not questioning the logic or the experience...rather I'm expecting to learn something I hadn't thought of previously...not meaning to trip up an expert.

 

Cheers

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Yes, It is a Columbia 24. (..They did make a 26' varient of that design as well.)

I did not find the boat ugly at all, and it also was a pretty decent sailer. But, I like old boats. B)

 

This was my dad's Columbia 24. I spent a summer or two of my miss-spent teen years living aboard, and I thought it was awesome!

 

gallery_75266_1131_19908.jpg

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Ishmael,

 

As of now I think of 40 as one number. Honest question about the f40 stick and didn't know Bob had spec'd it for previous designs...when I'm asking the question I'm not questioning the logic or the experience...rather I'm expecting to learn something I hadn't thought of previously...not meaning to trip up an expert.

 

Cheers

 

No worries, we tend to assume a hell of a lot here.

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Once upon a time, cabins were much higher with big portlights aft:

 

byinslip.jpg

 

Narrow side decks too.

This old Columbia 26 is at Pirates Cove in Galesville, MD. It has been there for years. I recognize the restaurant's deck where I have enjoyed some good times. It is hard to imagine an uglier boat.

 

Mike Meier

 

 

That would actually be quite a handsome boat in most British small boat harbours.

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Lets also not forget the plethora of Farr 40's that have been IRC'ed and are used offshore.

 

I've met this Bob designer guy, even stayed at his shack a few times.

 

I get the impression he has the whole RM thingy down pat.

RM had nothing to do with my question...it was more about likely sailplan under pressure...And by the way can anybody just go get IRC'ed. Where do I sign up? Wanna go offshore in a Farr40? Pass

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Lets also not forget the plethora of Farr 40's that have been IRC'ed and are used offshore.

 

I've met this Bob designer guy, even stayed at his shack a few times.

 

I get the impression he has the whole RM thingy down pat.

RM had nothing to do with my question...it was more about likely sailplan under pressure...And by the way can anybody just go get IRC'ed. Where do I sign up? Wanna go offshore in a Farr40? Pass

 

 

I'll go offshore with a boat designed to take a Farr 40 rig with an adequate allowance for entropy. I'm still waiting to hear from my application for crew for one of the two carbon cutters going south.

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Lets also not forget the plethora of Farr 40's that have been IRC'ed and are used offshore.

 

I've met this Bob designer guy, even stayed at his shack a few times.

 

I get the impression he has the whole RM thingy down pat.

RM had nothing to do with my question...it was more about likely sailplan under pressure...And by the way can anybody just go get IRC'ed. Where do I sign up? Wanna go offshore in a Farr40? Pass

 

RM has everything to do with that! The higher the RM, the more loading and pressure the rig will experience.

 

Not going to bother with your other points, you have no idea.

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Advocate. No need to pull out the 'you have no idea' heavy artillery..my original point had more to do with mast pumping than righting moment...at least I thought it did....

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Is the head aft so it can be used as a wet locker?

Yes. Also as close to the holding tank as possible, and the holding tank is in the watertight smell tight engine room.

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Is the head aft so it can be used as a wet locker?

Yes. Also as close to the holding tank as possible, and the holding tank is in the watertight smell tight engine room.

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Not sure why I feel the need to reiterate...but I was talking about a half/quarter section of the mast reefed in extreme conditions. Not seriously questioning it but throwing the question out there....Advocate what would you advocate?

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Pano:

"So have you just got a target displacement and righting moment just ends up being function of that ?"

I wouldn't quite say it as succinctly as that. It's a complex process. There is a lot of "estimating" in the early stages of the design process. You need to acquaint yourself with the "design spiral". It shows graphically how the design process works., I go into it in detail in my book, if you are really interested.

Try to keep up.

 

Can't be bothered to keep up with absolutely everything, portlights and shitfights bore me!

 

I've read about the design spiral in Dominique Presles's book hence the question, that was during my national service in the late 90s, got even in trouble as the officer in charge found me at 3am "guarding" the ship with the book on my laps.Sheesh, officers are supposed to sleep at 3am when the boat is docked.

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Stumble:

I have contacted Harken re: floating jib leads. We'll see what they have to say about any cost difference. I like the floating leads bu I'm not sure if they would be in Dave's best interest. One of my close sailmaker friends once lectured me on why cruisers should not have adjustable leads,"They will just insure that the lead is never in the right place." Something to think about.

Let's not forget that this is an old man's boat.

 

ecoute-trois-d.jpg

 

They are quite simple and work great on a reach.

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Not sure why I feel the need to reiterate...but I was talking about a half/quarter section of the mast reefed in extreme conditions. Not seriously questioning it but throwing the question out there....Advocate what would you advocate?

There have been a few f40 that have been thoroughly beaten and abused offshore, with the standard stick. The AFR midnight rambler team did a bunch of Hobart's on theirs, they changed lots of details on the boat to make it more suitable for the bash south, but afaik the stick was stock. They were the team that won on handicap in the 98' Hobart (on a different boat), so pretty sharp on offshore safety.

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floating leads work well on non-overlapping boats where the #1 - #3 jibs all have pretty much the same LP

 

this boat has an overlapping #1 or #2 headsail, which they may even occasionally want to sail partially furled, and will presumably have some kind of non overlapping #3, so tracks may work better for that kind of setup

 

another advantage of floating leads is easy adjustment of the sheeting angle - i'm not sure how much that's needed on a cruising boat

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Is the head aft so it can be used as a wet locker?

Yes. Also as close to the holding tank as possible, and the holding tank is in the watertight smell tight engine room.

Maybe I missed it, Dave, but if the engine compartment is watertight and smell tight, how does the engine get its combustion air? Do you run a sealed duct from the engine intake to somewhere high on the transom?

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Do you run a sealed duct from the engine intake to somewhere high on the transom?

Yes that is the plan so far. I think there is plenty of room for a run of hose that will bring air but not water into the engine room. There is also a forced air engine fan for the engine room. The diesel is only a 3cyl Volvo that we are using as a DC generator to charge the batteries for the electric motor. I think we looked at the air intake required and it is not all that much.

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We were with a friend on his new Euromilions Bavarian thingy and we had taken the engine cover off trying to work out where the filters were and so on. One of the non sailing wives aboard endeared herself to me by saying how happy we must be finally to have an engine in the living room.

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Coaming pockets Dave. That way you will not see them.

What would I know?

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