Peter Johnstone

PLEASE SAY A PRAYER FOR RAINMAKER'S CREW

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Again, just endless, pathetic, anonymous, slanderous, and generally completely irrelevant speculation on an open issue which has not provided all the facts. Why the silence you ask? Hmm - you ever dealt with a TWO PLUS MILLION DOLLAR insurance claim!? Of anything!? Guess what - the first thing they tell you is- STFU. You wanna kill off any chance you have of ever working in the industry again? Guess what - dealing with a dismasting and rescue at sea doesn't close doors for you, but blowing a rich/public owner's insurance claim up sure fucking does. Stop fucking with people's reputations just because you read a few articles on the event and sailed your 50ft cat across the Chesapeake twice. This is someone's livelihood, and I'll bet my left ball that he's got more experience and know-how than 99% of the people reading this sentence right now.

 

Hey ED - everything that could possibly be said about this has been said, and now its just turning monotonous circles - how bout kill the thread?

 

OH - and to the pathetic little fucking chode that made a condescending comment about this being my second (now third) post in SA - YOU, douche-macgee, are EXACTLY the type that I was referring to - the type that bases his (and mine, or anyone's) credibility as a seaman/yachtsman/sailor/human on how many posts they've made to a website. Seriously!? You can talk about discrediting a highly experienced and sought after skipper (first in line, first called upon for the new Gunboat job, out of hundreds of skippers who'd fucking kill to drive one) when you base your opinion of someone on how many times they have posted in a forum? Look inside yourself, you poor soul.

 

I'll just repost this every 50 posts or so, if you don't mind.

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Wish you would, Mr Clean. And then somewhere along the way, hopefully be able to include some new and relevant news update about the salvage of the boat, the insurance investigation, the GunBoat investigation, and the skipper's first hand account to shed light on what went down. Until then I'm out!

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This is Sailing ANARCHY. Sailing Scuttlebutt is just down the street- and has the USCG rescue footage

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the rescue footage that was posted here about 30 minutes after it was made public? Oh yeah, that one.

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Folks, there's a new sheriff in town. Name is pyrat. He knows his way around big insurance claims and yacht captain hiring too. Musta taken a few licks on the high seas to throw down a rant like that. He used choade and douche macgee in the same post while giving Clean and Ed some what for. He left as quick as he came and all that's left around here is an eerie silence. I'm just gonna mosey on back to the Cleavage Day thread until the big p gets this all sorted out.

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Again, just endless, pathetic, anonymous, slanderous, and generally completely irrelevant speculation on an open issue which has not provided all the facts. Why the silence you ask? Hmm - you ever dealt with a TWO PLUS MILLION DOLLAR insurance claim!? Of anything!? Guess what - the first thing they tell you is- STFU. You wanna kill off any chance you have of ever working in the industry again? Guess what - dealing with a dismasting and rescue at sea doesn't close doors for you, but blowing a rich/public owner's insurance claim up sure fucking does. Stop fucking with people's reputations just because you read a few articles on the event and sailed your 50ft cat across the Chesapeake twice. This is someone's livelihood, and I'll bet my left ball that he's got more experience and know-how than 99% of the people reading this sentence right now.

 

Hey ED - everything that could possibly be said about this has been said, and now its just turning monotonous circles - how bout kill the thread?

 

OH - and to the pathetic little fucking chode that made a condescending comment about this being my second (now third) post in SA - YOU, douche-macgee, are EXACTLY the type that I was referring to - the type that bases his (and mine, or anyone's) credibility as a seaman/yachtsman/sailor/human on how many posts they've made to a website. Seriously!? You can talk about discrediting a highly experienced and sought after skipper (first in line, first called upon for the new Gunboat job, out of hundreds of skippers who'd fucking kill to drive one) when you base your opinion of someone on how many times they have posted in a forum? Look inside yourself, you poor soul.

 

I'll just repost this every 50 posts or so, if you don't mind.

What a sycophant- if this was anyone else you would have been all over it with promises of in-depth video interviews from everyone involved and hell-be-damned about their reputation. As an advertiser, you even have a hotline to the people that can stop all this hubris if that indeed is what it is.

The status quo really blows these days.

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I can't imagine leaving 100% of the rendezvous maneuvering to 800' of steel while I bobbed there like a fucking target, fouled props and all, waiting to get run down. That alone tells me that there was some imperative to un-assing the boat. I'd just like to know if it was structural or human weakness that caused someone to decide that getting smashed while DIW was a better option than hanging out.

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What a sycophant- if this was anyone else you would have been all over it with promises of in-depth video interviews from everyone involved and hell-be-damned about their reputation. As an advertiser, you even have a hotline to the people that can stop all this hubris if that indeed is what it is.

The status quo really blows these days.

 

Whinge whinge whinge...Clean won't burn his friends...everyone look at me while I whinge. I'm entitled to the truth and reality and the dirty insider info, because I post on SA dammit!!!!!

 

 

Dismasting. Newbie owner and son aboard. All lifted off.

 

Dumb day to leave on. Dumb for a newbie to bluewater (and his son!) to use this as their personal shakedown. Dumb for a rig to fall down, but none of us - nor the Gunboat folks - has any idea whose error that was, given how much abuse past GB masts have taken without a sneeze.

 

Gunboat knows how I feel about it, and you would too if you would read a little bit rather than just jumping in on page fucking 4 like the archetypical piler-on.

 

What's your interest, terrorvision, besides something to jerk off to after the wife leaves your apartment? What the fuck do you care about an interview with Chris in which he's not allowed to say a fucking thing?

 

. I'd just like to know if it was structural or human weakness that caused someone to decide that getting smashed while DIW was a better option than hanging out.

 

Given the makeup of the crew that you've seen, can you really not figure it out?

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The things people say... GB and FH the same thing. Like dog sh*t and a greyhound. :blink:

 

 

What is wrong with "Anarchy"?? This is the latest example of SA apologists making endless excuses for inexcusable f**kups (last one was Vestus). At the same time we have the congruence of the FH ("Anarchist" if ever there was one) being abandoned off the CA coast. Where are all of the tears and nuanced excuses for him? Let me see.... did FH get hit by a "micro burst", was it the fault of the "zoom"?


OMG :wacko:

 

 

The skipper and crew might have taken the rib to the freighter instead of having the freighter come to them and bounce off the cat?

 

 

Not exactly long on reality. <_<

 

 

 



I have read from another news source that the salvage team that was contracted to retrieve her is in possession of rainmaker and making way back to port.

Rescue chopper was so low on fuel they had to divert to a closer landing site. So it might have been dead boat crew plus dead chopper crew had they ditched.

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Pyrat speaks the truth. But that is less fun.

 

Ive owned a lot of boats but have never had disruptive technology.

I cant find it in the West Marine catalog.

Hopefully some good will come out of this tragedy and will learn wtf it is.

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Moving on - could sail have been hoisted by raising the leeward centerboard fully up & using that as a stub mast? C-board extends 7' below hull when lowered, cant tell from GB site how high one could raise them. But it seems that they could, and a scrap of sail in those conditions would have allowed them to quarter the swell & make a few knots.

 

 

Interesting concept. If I'm not mistaken, these are not conventional daggerboards in the sense that they slide up and down in a trunk. I believe these pivot up and down from a pivot point located at the top of the dagger/center board. Everything housed in a trunk below decks. There is not board available to be deployed above deck and act as a spar.

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What a sycophant- if this was anyone else you would have been all over it with promises of in-depth video interviews from everyone involved and hell-be-damned about their reputation. As an advertiser, you even have a hotline to the people that can stop all this hubris if that indeed is what it is.

The status quo really blows these days.

Whinge whinge whinge...Clean won't burn his friends...everyone look at me while I whinge. I'm entitled to the truth and reality and the dirty insider info, because I post on SA dammit!!!!!

Yeah- I care that much.

 

So long as you are happy to admit that you are biasing a friend and that there is something to burn him about should you choose to.

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Am I missing something here TerrorVision? Did I stumble across the Associated Press website accidentally? Cause I swear I didn't see any promises of 'fair and balanced / strictly non-biased reporting' anywhere in the SA terms and conditions. Its an open forum, run by private individuals, who use their website to promote sailing and people they like, and to trash talk people they don't. If you're looking for a media outlet with controversial topics of conversation and occasionally relevant posts about the sport of sailing, you've come to the right place. If you want one with integrity, public responsibility, and strict reporting ethics, how bout maybe don't look to the site with fucking ANARCHY in its title?

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PS - generally speaking, sailors who are on the 'guys we know and like and vouch for' list of an uber popular sailing website, are solid guys that have been around the circuit a few times and know a few things. Wonder if Clean would go to bat for you (or me) in a similar situation? Probably not, cuz we, unlike the skipper in question, haven't been driving hot new Gunboats across oceans for 4+ years, and would certainly deserve a bit of a shadow of doubt as to our abilities to handle one.

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This very same dynamic is on the pilot boards. Some people post about waiting for the NTSB report in a year to comment, some speculate away, and if the pilot was not known to the board he gets slammed as a moron and if someone knows him it had to be a mechanical failure.

Human nature on teh interwebs :rolleyes:

To give Clean some credit, the posts are still here. No one is doing a CF style dump down the memory hole.

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The things people say... GB and FH the same thing. Like dog sh*t and a greyhound. :blink:

 

Wess - you seem to have missed the point, so I'll repeat it for you....

 

It seems that it is OK to mercilessly humiliate HR, but we can't say anything about the GB abandonment - please explain beyond sycophantic sucking up.

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Am I missing something here TerrorVision? Did I stumble across the Associated Press website accidentally? Cause I swear I didn't see any promises of 'fair and balanced / strictly non-biased reporting' anywhere in the SA terms and conditions. Its an open forum, run by private individuals, who use their website to promote sailing and people they like, and to trash talk people they don't. If you're looking for a media outlet with controversial topics of conversation and occasionally relevant posts about the sport of sailing, you've come to the right place. If you want one with integrity, public responsibility, and strict reporting ethics, how bout maybe don't look to the site with fucking ANARCHY in its title?

 

Putting anarchy in the name of this website is about as apt as Fox putting News in their name. Nice that Clean now has a third face to go with his other two.

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The things people say... GB and FH the same thing. Like dog sh*t and a greyhound. :blink:

 

Wess - you seem to have missed the point, so I'll repeat it for you....

 

It seems that it is OK to mercilessly humiliate HR, but we can't say anything about the GB abandonment - please explain beyond sycophantic sucking up.

Somebody is missing the point for sure.

 

1.) I have not posted word 1 about FH so don't put that on me.

 

2.) If you can't figure out the difference between each and every aspect of the the designer, builder, owner, skipper and crew of FH vs GB then I really can't help you. We have no comon frame of reference.

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Dear Sir Pyrat,

A rational read of the posts on this thread reveals that, for the most part, people are just asking questions in a relatively benign manner. The owner of Gunboat started the whole thing by asking for divine intervention. People are naturally curious to find out what happened and maybe avoid such problems in the future. Your extremely angry reaction indicates that you might be a little too emotionally involved. Easy there young fellow.

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The things people say... GB and FH the same thing. Like dog sh*t and a greyhound. :blink:

 

Wess - you seem to have missed the point, so I'll repeat it for you....

 

It seems that it is OK to mercilessly humiliate HR, but we can't say anything about the GB abandonment - please explain beyond sycophantic sucking up.

 

Are you really that stupid? Or is your agenda blinding common sense?

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I haven't seen anyone trying to censor anything relating to GB or Rainmaker. I have seen wild, unsubstantiated speculation and armchair bullshit which others have criticized. What's the problem?

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Dear Sir Pyrat,

A rational read of the posts on this thread reveals that, for the most part, people are just asking questions in a relatively benign manner. The owner of Gunboat started the whole thing by asking for divine intervention. People are naturally curious to find out what happened and maybe avoid such problems in the future. Your extremely angry reaction indicates that you might be a little too emotionally involved. Easy there young fellow.

 

You must not be reading the same thread I am. 90% of the posts are from trolls who could care less about the truth or the people involved. They are just Jealous little bitches that will never be able to afford a gunboat or talented enough to be hired to sail one so they choose to slander and belittle those that are doing things they only dream about.

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Of course there are a few mean spirited turds on here but I haven't seen anything slanderous or even angry. I don't think 90% of the people posting are jealous little bitches. I bet 90% are actually pretty good multihull sailors and maybe 10% are angry little bitches...

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OMG :wacko:

 

 

The skipper and crew might have taken the rib to the freighter instead of having the freighter come to them and bounce off the cat?

 

I'm with Joli, RAINMAKER's tender looks pretty substantial, to me... Assuming, of course, that the motor had not been removed and stowed for the passage... Perhaps unlikely given its size, however, it wasn't removed for the delivery featured in Gunboat's video "Stolen Dance"...

 

 

3666.jpg?itok=KtKz6IS3

 

 

Not too much different than what these guys from the CG cutter GALVESTON are using, actually...

 

 

800px-thumbnail.jpg

 

 

Get yourself in the lee of a 350' wall of steel in the form of the OCEAN CRESCENT, making the transfer using such an RIB would appear to be a far better option than the way it was done by the crew who abandoned this Beneteau during the NARC a few years ago... That guy who fell in the water between the ship and the yacht is VERY lucky to have survived without serious injury, or worse...

 

 

brothers1.jpg?itok=enDLboPX

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So long as you are happy to admit that you are biasing a friend and that there is something to burn him about should you choose to.

 

There is something to burn everyone should any widely read publication choose to. That's why politicians all suck so much; they're either so rich and connected that no one dares burn them, or they are so useless that they have never done anything burn-able.

 

Not sure why anyone needs burning when a rig comes down and a seasick owner and kid want off.

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PS - generally speaking, sailors who are on the 'guys we know and like and vouch for' list of an uber popular sailing website, are solid guys that have been around the circuit a few times and know a few things. Wonder if Clean would go to bat for you (or me) in a similar situation? Probably not, cuz we, unlike the skipper in question, haven't been driving hot new Gunboats across oceans for 4+ years, and would certainly deserve a bit of a shadow of doubt as to our abilities to handle one.

 

I go to bat for anyone who doesn't run from the truth. It's not about ability - it's about community.

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Wess,

 

For someone who claims not to "see" the connection between the FH and GB incidents, let me make some helpful suggestions.

 

- both boats have owners who are in over their heads in terms of knowledge about sea

- both set off for the ocean in ill-advised circumstances

- both had to be rescued because of the above

- the fact the the GB is a 2 million dollar boat, makes that situation even more ridiculous that the FH

 

Does that help?

 

BTW you proved my point about dissing Hot Rod, but giving a free pass to the GB - you claimed to have not said a bad word about the FH, but I quote "like dog shit and a greyhound".

 

 

 

 

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18' RIB vs. steel Panamax ship, in 13' sig wave height @ 9 second period? Either you know better than this, or your experience is far different than you've claimed.

 

I'm with Joli, RAINMAKER's tender looks pretty substantial, to me... Although, I suppose it's possible the motor may have been removed and stowed for the passage...

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PS - generally speaking, sailors who are on the 'guys we know and like and vouch for' list of an uber popular sailing website, are solid guys that have been around the circuit a few times and know a few things. Wonder if Clean would go to bat for you (or me) in a similar situation? Probably not, cuz we, unlike the skipper in question, haven't been driving hot new Gunboats across oceans for 4+ years, and would certainly deserve a bit of a shadow of doubt as to our abilities to handle one.

 

I go to bat for anyone who doesn't run from the truth. It's not about ability - it's about community.

 

Jesus Clean - did you really just say that?

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PS - generally speaking, sailors who are on the 'guys we know and like and vouch for' list of an uber popular sailing website, are solid guys that have been around the circuit a few times and know a few things. Wonder if Clean would go to bat for you (or me) in a similar situation? Probably not, cuz we, unlike the skipper in question, haven't been driving hot new Gunboats across oceans for 4+ years, and would certainly deserve a bit of a shadow of doubt as to our abilities to handle one.

 

I go to bat for anyone who doesn't run from the truth. It's not about ability - it's about community.

 

Jesus Clean - did you really just say that?

 

Sure did, and it's been my policy since day fucking one. Talk to us, tell us the truth, and we will share your truth with the world, even if it is different from our truth. Hide from reality, hide from the sunlight, pull the curtains and turn it into a secret, and you lose the right to share your version of the truth.

 

If you have a problem with that, please leave a comment

 

comment-box.jpeg and we'll forward it to customer service department.

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The problem with pyrat is, being a wet behind the ears newbie here, he hasn't seen the real shit fight threads. This one is above average in civility, consideration, and knowledge, weighed in the scales of Sailing Anarchy's history.

 

Besides, he hasn't shown any boobies, why should we take him seriously?

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What a sycophant- if this was anyone else you would have been all over it with promises of in-depth video interviews from everyone involved and hell-be-damned about their reputation. As an advertiser, you even have a hotline to the people that can stop all this hubris if that indeed is what it is.

The status quo really blows these days.

Whinge whinge whinge...Clean won't burn his friends...everyone look at me while I whinge. I'm entitled to the truth and reality and the dirty insider info, because I post on SA dammit!!!!!

 

 

Dismasting. Newbie owner and son aboard. All lifted off.

 

Dumb day to leave on. Dumb for a newbie to bluewater (and his son!) to use this as their personal shakedown. Dumb for a rig to fall down, but none of us - nor the Gunboat folks - has any idea whose error that was, given how much abuse past GB masts have taken without a sneeze.

 

Gunboat knows how I feel about it, and you would too if you would read a little bit rather than just jumping in on page fucking 4 like the archetypical piler-on.

 

What's your interest, terrorvision, besides something to jerk off to after the wife leaves your apartment? What the fuck do you care about an interview with Chris in which he's not allowed to say a fucking thing?

. I'd just like to know if it was structural or human weakness that caused someone to decide that getting smashed while DIW was a better option than hanging out.

Given the makeup of the crew that you've seen, can you really not figure it out?

I kind of like the aircraft world where EVERY accident is a teaching moment, even if I prang a sailplane into a Sierra ridge. IMHO the USCG should publish a report for each and every rescue performed. You KNOW that they write them, they should be in the public domain. In any case, this gentleman shouldn't be allowed on open water if he lacked either the experience or judgment to tell his skipper to wait.

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I kind of like the aircraft world where EVERY accident is a teaching moment, even if I prang a sailplane into a Sierra ridge. IMHO the USCG should publish a report for each and every rescue performed. You KNOW that they write them, they should be in the public domain. In any case, this gentleman shouldn't be allowed on open water if he lacked either the experience or judgment to tell his skipper to wait.

 

Agree 100% other than the 'shouldn't be allowed on open water' part. You and I both know that there are 10,000 people that 'shouldn't be allowed on open water'.

 

The most important part of the NTSB stuff is that it takes the lawyers out of the equation, and it does it by statute, meaning that non-disclosure agreements and the like are irrelevant.

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So long as you are happy to admit that you are biasing a friend and that there is something to burn him about should you choose to.

 

There is something to burn everyone should any widely read publication choose to. That's why politicians all suck so much; they're either so rich and connected that no one dares burn them, or they are so useless that they have never done anything burn-able.

 

Not sure why anyone needs burning when a rig comes down and a seasick owner and kid want off.

 

Aaawww, poor little rich kid and his daddy. I'm sure the USCG fucking live for saving their pampered plum sacks.

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Keep coming back to realize that what you can learn from this thread is who you would never want to deliver your boat.

 

 

18' RIB vs. steel Panamax ship, in 13' sig wave height @ 9 second period? Either you know better than this, or your experience is far different than you've claimed.

 

I'm with Joli, RAINMAKER's tender looks pretty substantial, to me... Although, I suppose it's possible the motor may have been removed and stowed for the passage...

 

Mundt - I think (?) we are both fans of CW cats. Name me just 10 folks that have posted on this thread trashing GB and the skipper/crew that you would trust and your insurance company would accept to skipper your new 50 CW cat from Morehead City to the Islands this month. You stay aboard no matter what they do/say.

Of course there are a few mean spirited turds on here but I haven't seen anything slanderous or even angry. I don't think 90% of the people posting are jealous little bitches. I bet 90% are actually pretty good multihull sailors and maybe 10% are angry little bitches...

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I am not volunteering to deliver any boats not steered from inside a steel pilothouse with steam radiators and stewards bringing me coffee in January unless we start from Florida and head south. Just sayin ;)

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Something like this?

hqdefault.jpg

 

 

Oh yeah except at night offshore in bigger seas next to a huge ship, assuming you could even board into the thing. Hmmm.



Or perhaps more like this?

 

0.jpg

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18' RIB vs. steel Panamax ship, in 13' sig wave height @ 9 second period? Either you know better than this, or your experience is far different than you've claimed.

 

I'm with Joli, RAINMAKER's tender looks pretty substantial, to me... Although, I suppose it's possible the motor may have been removed and stowed for the passage...

 

Nope, no experience whatsoever in attempting to come alongside the hull of a large merchant vessel at sea... Well, not YET, at any rate... :-)

 

Might be somewhat different, if they'd had the ability to actually maneuver RAINMAKER alongside themselves... But with the engines disabled, given the choice between having a large ship having to maneuver alongside me, or instead trying to make my own way alongside them, I'd likely go with the possibility to doing the maneuvering myself...

 

Also, when weighing the relative risk of getting pinched between the hull of a ship and a 55' yacht, or the yacht's inflatable tender, i'd be more inclined to favor the latter...

 

Certainly, these are nothing but my own musings, posted from the warmth of my home on a chilly day at the Jersey shore...

 

However, I think you may be underestimating the extent to which the conditions might be moderated in the lee of a large vessel in sporty weather, this vid of the rescue performed by the crew of the NORWEGIAN GEM a few years ago is illustrative of the calming effect... Not sure why they didn't create a lee for the launch of their tender, however... ;-)

 

Of course, with the OCEAN CRESCENT being a relatively modest 350' LOA, perhaps the captain may not have wished to lie beam to the seas, in an effort to create a lee...

 

 

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Something like this?

hqdefault.jpg

 

 

Oh yeah except at night offshore in bigger seas next to a huge ship, assuming you could even board into the thing. Hmmm.

 

Or perhaps more like this?

 

0.jpg

 

Yeah, I suppose you're right... The fact that RAINMAKER was almost chewed up by the OCEAN CRESCENT's prop would seem to be indisputable proof that they chose the superior option...

 

;-)

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Pyrat speaks the truth. But that is less fun.

 

Ive owned a lot of boats but have never had disruptive technology.

I cant find it in the West Marine catalog.

Hopefully some good will come out of this tragedy and will learn wtf it is.

Tragedy? This is not a tragedy. This is some broken plastic and bruised egos at worst. Let's all take a step back and look at the bright side. Because we live on one of the greatest countries in the world these sailors were rescued from a very dangerous situation but no tragedy here. As Peter has said the boat will be rebuilt better than ever and many lessons will be learned. Whether those lessons trickle down to our hoard remains to be seen. That's probably up to the guy writing the checks. It's his boat and his business.

 

Hats off to the Rescuers for another incredible mission. Tragedy averted, thank God.

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Here is an article written about me, regarding a rescue at sea last May that I participated in, involving a yacht-to-ship transfer. I was the captain at the helm of the smaller vessel alongside the ship, in case anyone thinks I'm talking out of my ass.. I can assure you the the 'lee' does not offer a break from the swells, only the wind and the breaking crests/whitewater - it is a rough and terrifying place to be, with the ship still rolling heavily, exposing 10-15 feet of barnacles on the bottom paint on each list, banging against the gunnel, mast, etc. Wouldn't come near it in a tender, and hopefully won't ever have to do it again in a yacht.

 

http://www.moultrienews.com/article/20140612/MN01/140619887/1014

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Now the whole (digital) world can criticize my inexperience and awful and dangerous decisions, too.

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Again, just endless, pathetic, anonymous, slanderous, and generally completely irrelevant speculation on an open issue which has not provided all the facts. Why the silence you ask? Hmm - you ever dealt with a TWO PLUS MILLION DOLLAR insurance claim!? Of anything!? Guess what - the first thing they tell you is- STFU. You wanna kill off any chance you have of ever working in the industry again? Guess what - dealing with a dismasting and rescue at sea doesn't close doors for you, but blowing a rich/public owner's insurance claim up sure fucking does. Stop fucking with people's reputations just because you read a few articles on the event and sailed your 50ft cat across the Chesapeake twice. This is someone's livelihood, and I'll bet my left ball that he's got more experience and know-how than 99% of the people reading this sentence right now.

 

Hey ED - everything that could possibly be said about this has been said, and now its just turning monotonous circles - how bout kill the thread?

 

OH - and to the pathetic little fucking chode that made a condescending comment about this being my second (now third) post in SA - YOU, douche-macgee, are EXACTLY the type that I was referring to - the type that bases his (and mine, or anyone's) credibility as a seaman/yachtsman/sailor/human on how many posts they've made to a website. Seriously!? You can talk about discrediting a highly experienced and sought after skipper (first in line, first called upon for the new Gunboat job, out of hundreds of skippers who'd fucking kill to drive one) when you base your opinion of someone on how many times they have posted in a forum? Look inside yourself, you poor soul.

Please clarify.

Are you suggesting that the skipper has been told to STFU so as to not ruin the chances of the owner getting his insurance payout?

The way I interpret your post, that is what it appears you are saying.

In my country there are laws in place that proscecute insurance fraud claims, does the USA have similar laws?

Having dealt with many insurance claims for clients, I have never been told to STFU, even when dealing with total loss claims worth millions. Is the USA that different?

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In the insurance case that I was involved in, the underwriter contacted all parties involved and strongly requested that we speak only to them, or to any authorities which had jurisdiction to investigate the incident. They presumably do not want more publicity or speculation from the media than necessary. Also, if the case goes to court, whether it be a liability lawsuit, gross negligence, etc, anything the cpt. says is going to come back up and possibly cost him or his boss. So I would have exactly the same tactic until its all said and done - shut up, answer only the questions that I must answer from the people who have the right to ask them. Staying silent is not fraud.

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Here is an article written about me, regarding a rescue at sea last May that I participated in, involving a yacht-to-ship transfer. I was the captain at the helm of the smaller vessel alongside the ship, in case anyone thinks I'm talking out of my ass.. I can assure you the the 'lee' does not offer a break from the swells, only the wind and the breaking crests/whitewater - it is a rough and terrifying place to be, with the ship still rolling heavily, exposing 10-15 feet of barnacles on the bottom paint on each list, banging against the gunnel, mast, etc. Wouldn't come near it in a tender, and hopefully won't ever have to do it again in a yacht.

 

http://www.moultrienews.com/article/20140612/MN01/140619887/1014

 

That a pretty amazing story. I tip my cap to you sir.

 

The difference between a professional and a poster/poser who posts videos has never been more clear.

 

Remember Mr Mundt (who I believe by reputation really is a pretty good multihull racer) you can't pick this guy or Soma. Bill is not here bashing; can't pick him. You gotta find 10 - heck I dare you to find 3 to fill the crew spots - from those posting here and bashing GB and the crew to deliver the CW57 from Morehead City to the Islands this month. Who are you taking?

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Wess, the only ones "bashing" people on this thread, are you and a few other posters who keep insisting that no-one has the right to ask questions about the GB abandonment.

 

 

Here is an article written about me, regarding a rescue at sea last May that I participated in, involving a yacht-to-ship transfer. I was the captain at the helm of the smaller vessel alongside the ship, in case anyone thinks I'm talking out of my ass.. I can assure you the the 'lee' does not offer a break from the swells, only the wind and the breaking crests/whitewater - it is a rough and terrifying place to be, with the ship still rolling heavily, exposing 10-15 feet of barnacles on the bottom paint on each list, banging against the gunnel, mast, etc. Wouldn't come near it in a tender, and hopefully won't ever have to do it again in a yacht.

 

http://www.moultrienews.com/article/20140612/MN01/140619887/1014

 

That a pretty amazing story. I tip my cap to you sir.

 

The difference between a professional and a poster/poser who posts videos has never been more clear.

 

Remember Mr Mundt (who I believe by reputation really is a pretty good multihull racer) you can't pick this guy or Soma. Bill is not here bashing; can't pick him. You gotta find 10 - heck I dare you to find 3 to fill the crew spots - from those posting here and bashing GB and the crew to deliver the CW57 from Morehead City to the Islands this month. Who are you taking?

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Here is an article written about me, regarding a rescue at sea last May that I participated in, involving a yacht-to-ship transfer. I was the captain at the helm of the smaller vessel alongside the ship, in case anyone thinks I'm talking out of my ass.. I can assure you the the 'lee' does not offer a break from the swells, only the wind and the breaking crests/whitewater - it is a rough and terrifying place to be, with the ship still rolling heavily, exposing 10-15 feet of barnacles on the bottom paint on each list, banging against the gunnel, mast, etc. Wouldn't come near it in a tender, and hopefully won't ever have to do it again in a yacht.

 

http://www.moultrienews.com/article/20140612/MN01/140619887/1014

 

Wow, quite the story...

 

My hat's off to you and the rest of the crew, nothing to criticize there, sounds like everything was handled in exemplary fashion... And I can't imagine how terrifying that must be, shit, I get spooked even passing too close to large ships at anchor in a place like New York harbor, or off Savannah River Entrance... ;-)

 

However, the one significant difference, is that you had a boat that you were in control of, and able to maneuver alongside, yourself... I'll defer to your experience, but I'm still inclined to think that if I found myself trying to make such a transfer as RAINMAKER was attempting, but lacking the ability to maneuver myself, I'd still have a hard look at doing so in her tender, as an option...

 

obviously, none of us were there, and I'm willing to concede that perhaps it was considered, ruled out immediately, and with good reason...

 

Thanks for sharing that account, and again my congrats on a difficult job very well done...

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Is the USA that different?

when it comes to litigation, or even prospective litigation, the USA is entirely unique in the world.

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Guvacine,

 

You and I have a very different idea of "ask questions."

 

The very nature of these things make it such that there was likely less than a 1% chance that anyone that knew the details would or could post here or anywhere. Been a long time since I was doing this type of thing but that's just not the way it works. Given the tone and tenure of this thread and the posters here, I am pretty sure its now zero.

 

Oh and call it bashing if you like - though that is not the intent - some of the ideas posted on this thread are so absolutely absurd and stupid (from folks who I would have thought would know better) that if followed I think might well ave gotten somebody killed. We all get to pick who we sail with and for. You are welcome to decide to never step foot on one of my boats because you think what I post, say or do is stupid. But that is a two way street.

 

I have covered lots of ground at sea. Made more than my fair share of mistakes. Have had a few occasions where a string of bad luck and cascade of events that never should have been - was - and had me one more failure from swimming and hoping for a helo. So I want to learn.

 

But what you have and foster here is an environment were you will never hear facts, have the opportunity to learn, or really where anyone on the short end of any stick would want to share.

 

But yes, please do carry on with your ever so polite question asking around the fire and stake. Mind the pitchfork please. I'm not a witch. And its easy to know who I am. Just an old tired fat sea dog who hates to see good ones get crucified.

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Here is an article written about me, regarding a rescue at sea last May that I participated in, involving a yacht-to-ship transfer. I was the captain at the helm of the smaller vessel alongside the ship, in case anyone thinks I'm talking out of my ass.. I can assure you the the 'lee' does not offer a break from the swells, only the wind and the breaking crests/whitewater - it is a rough and terrifying place to be, with the ship still rolling heavily, exposing 10-15 feet of barnacles on the bottom paint on each list, banging against the gunnel, mast, etc. Wouldn't come near it in a tender, and hopefully won't ever have to do it again in a yacht.

 

http://www.moultrienews.com/article/20140612/MN01/140619887/1014

Wow, quite the story...

 

My hat's off to you and the rest of the crew, nothing to criticize there, sounds like everything was handled in exemplary fashion... And I can't imagine how terrifying that must be, shit, I get spooked even passing too close to large ships at anchor in a place like New York harbor, or off Savannah River Entrance... ;-)

 

However, the one significant difference, is that you had a boat that you were in control of, and able to maneuver alongside, yourself... I'll defer to your experience, but I'm still inclined to think that if I found myself trying to make such a transfer as RAINMAKER was attempting, but lacking the ability to maneuver myself, I'd still have a hard look at doing so in her tender, as an option...

 

obviously, none of us were there, and I'm willing to concede that perhaps it was considered, ruled out immediately, and with good reason...

 

Thanks for sharing that account, and again my congrats on a difficult job very well done...

On the way home from Oahu in '12, we spent 7 days in a 35-50kt gale with seas to 30'. One afternoon a Panamax containership passed 2 miles ahead. The mere thought of what a transfer would be like in those conditions made me laugh out loud. I was safer fighting upwind soaking wet and freezing. Boats are nearly always stronger than the people sailing them, barring some crap event.

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But what you have and foster here is an environment were you will never hear facts, have the opportunity to learn, or really where anyone on the short end of any stick would want to share.

 

That's idiotic Wess. The news almost always comes out here either from the horse's mouth, our editorial staff chasing it down, or one of the anarchists figuring it out. You just need a big dose of patience and the ability to drown out the clueless. Sure, there are a lot of them, but that's the same whether you're in here or on the street.

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Is the USA that different?

when it comes to litigation, or even prospective litigation, the USA is entirely unique in the world.

Ain't that the truth, just mention to an insurance company that you want to deal with the U.S.!! You might just find its not very financially appealing any more.

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Anybody have an opinion of the design choices of the GB 55 and how they may have impacted the choice of the crew to abandon ship? I'm thinking of the 34 inch bridge deck clearance, semi-rigid salon enclosure, salon is wide open aft to steps which lead directly to the sea. Also, the layout of the salon, which is quite open and has large spaces between furniture and no overhead handholds.

 

I have no doubt that the design wouldn't sink, but does it meet your concept of Category A offshore yacht? Those speaking out in knowledgeable fashion regarding the sort of route planning taken by Rainmaker have defended it based on experience with catamarans demonstrating a different set of choices for these design elements.

 

I think I better understand Category A when it refers to monohulls, and not so much to multihulls. In monos I look for small cockpits well protected from the sea, drained by large scuppers. Good handholds going forward and down below. I notice which accommodation plans have sharp corners and which have wide open spaces with few handholds providing secure movement and offering opportunity for horrendous falls. Of course that's just the tip of the iceberg, but the GB 55 doesn't strike me as a Category A shoo-in.

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Anybody have an opinion of the design choices of the GB 55 and how they may have impacted the choice of the crew to abandon ship? I'm thinking of the 34 inch bridge deck clearance, semi-rigid salon enclosure, salon is wide open aft to steps which lead directly to the sea. Also, the layout of the salon, which is quite open and has large spaces between furniture and no overhead handholds.

 

I have no doubt that the design wouldn't sink, but does it meet your concept of Category A offshore yacht? Those speaking out in knowledgeable fashion regarding the sort of route planning taken by Rainmaker have defended it based on experience with catamarans demonstrating a different set of choices for these design elements.

 

I think I better understand Category A when it refers to monohulls, and not so much to multihulls. In monos I look for small cockpits well protected from the sea, drained by large scuppers. Good handholds going forward and down below. I notice which accommodation plans have sharp corners and which have wide open spaces with few handholds providing secure movement and offering opportunity for horrendous falls. Of course that's just the tip of the iceberg, but the GB 55 doesn't strike me as a Category A shoo-in.

From the few pictures posted here, it doesn't look like the ideal option for bad offshore weather IMO. Especially with regards to bridge deck height, or is that an optical illusion?

 

Are there any better pictures, renders etc posted?

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... semi-rigid salon enclosure, salon is wide open aft to steps which lead directly to the sea. Also, the layout of the salon, which is quite open and has large spaces between furniture and no overhead handholds.

I'm with you on hand holds. They're nice.

 

I think we're looking at an open bridge deck design with a really nice enclosure (eg. Maine Cat, Seawind, etc.). By design the bridge deck is semi-wet. I presume the hulls can be securely closed off. However, if a lot of water was on deck for a significant amount of time that would be bad.

 

I remember that Ron Given chopped a big freeing port into the bridge deck of a cat of his design while on a rough delivery. He was quite impressed with the amount of water that the deck could hold. I'm not sure how the GB deals with that. Scuppers in the deck work both ways. That can be annoying. If it were mine I'd think about having some hatches on the deck that I could open up if flooding got to be a problem. Probably never need them but cheaper to install new than to fix up a hatchet job.

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not that anybody would or should care but I, for one, defer to Soma's opinion that the boat and crew were engaged in an activity that was well within the safe operating envelope in the forecasted conditions.

I also accept Pyrat's (unfortunately angry) opinion that the skipper did an excellent job under the circumstances.

I also firmly believe that Gunboats are incredibly well-designed, well-built vessels.

I have personally dropped several masts out in the pee pee and most-likely will do so again in spite of my vain attempts to properly maintain my vessels. It is an act of Poseidon or some other giant, omnipotent being who sits on a cloud and plays with us like chess pieces on a big board.

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not that anybody would or should care but I, for one, defer to Soma's opinion that the boat and crew were engaged in an activity that was well within the safe operating envelope in the forecasted conditions.

I also accept Pyrat's (unfortunately angry) opinion that the skipper did an excellent job under the circumstances.

I also firmly believe that Gunboats are incredibly well-designed, well-built vessels.

I have personally dropped several masts out in the pee pee and most-likely will do so again in spite of my vain attempts to properly maintain my vessels. It is an act of Poseidon or some other giant, omnipotent being who sits on a cloud and plays with us like chess pieces on a big board.

Pardon me, but if half of the crew, including the owner and his son, are not up to the conditions then setting sail in those conditions WAS NOT prudent whether or not the pros were up to and enjoying it. (Note: the rig was certainly not up to it based upon empirical evidence). You can't get around the fact that they needed to be rescued because the owner wanted off, and that's the bottom line. This owner isn't Tom Perkins, the pro skipper should have played this one more conservatively.

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Mundt,

 

Agree with pretty much all you posted, it's just that image from astern showing what appears to be a low bridge deck and aft beam.

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Hey NoStrings guess what - rich guys have been paying talented sailors to take them to sea since the history of sailing vessels. Lets jump back a few years to a couple of incidents involving Speedboat/Rambler/Virgin Whatever:

 

1) Branson is along for the ride on a record run with 2 daughters (I believe?), hits big weather, takes damage, calls it off. -You going to question the prudent seamanship of the skipper and crew of the baddest monohull in the world?

 

2) George David and family, and girlfriends of crew along for the ride on Rambler during Fastnet, boat breaks, boss almost drifts away and nearly dies of hypothermia. - Again, a rich guy who has no business being offshore on a boat he is not qualified to sail. Lets hear you call out Kenny Read for being irresponsible and taking his boss to sea with him. Please.

 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-02-16/ceo-capsizes-daring-record-in-fastnet-as-carbon-fiber-beats-wind

 

 

 

 


Pardon me, but if half of the crew, including the owner and his son, are not up to the conditions then setting sail in those conditions WAS NOT prudent whether or not the pros were up to and enjoying it. (Note: the rig was certainly not up to it based upon empirical evidence). You can't get around the fact that they needed to be rescued because the owner wanted off, and that's the bottom line. This owner isn't Tom Perkins, the pro skipper should have played this one more conservatively.

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Actually, you're wrong. Rich guys have been paying professionals to race their boats since the beginning of time. The owners typically followed along on a Cunard or White liner. Read The Last Great Race of the Atlantic.

 

Its only in the last 40 years that dilettante owners have decided that money makes them a sailor. Besides, you idiot, Rambler was fucking upside down. A rescue was clearly warranted, and the event occurred during a scheduled race, not a fucking delivery to the Caribbean. You want to play the apples and oranges game, do it with someone else.

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USCG footage clearly shows dink still hanging off davits. Shows water just washing over lowest level of stern platforms, & bows lifting out of the water. Boat looks level & on her lines.

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Apples are all I see here - Pro crew takes amateur owner offshore. What does it matter whether its a race? And regardless of the outcome of rescue, non-rescue, whatever - you stated that it was irresponsible for a pro captain to take an unqualified owner offshore, no? That's what I'm arguing, not the logistics of each case. Taking owners sailing is part of the game and part of the job.

 

Lots of bosses out there racing onboard with pro crew, inshore and off.

 

http://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/the-yachts/2010/ran/

 

List could go on, but I don't think its necessary. Anyone that's ever run a boat professionally has likely taken an under-qualified boss on a race or passage he wasn't really qualified for, or at least they know another skipper who has (including a few of the Gunboat skippers watching this forum). Get Real.

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Apples are all I see here - Pro crew takes amateur owner offshore. What does it matter whether its a race? And regardless of the outcome of rescue, non-rescue, whatever - you stated that it was irresponsible for a pro captain to take an unqualified owner offshore, no? That's what I'm arguing, not the logistics of each case.

No, you cited specific cases as if they were the rule.

 

1). If you know him, Richard Bransom is a different cat. Personally, he'd sail through machine gun fire, but he wouldn't do that to his kids..he doesn't coddle them, but he's not in a hurry to kill them.

2). Rambler needed a rescue, even if the owner had been Ted Turner.

 

Finally, this was a delivery. IOW, time SHOULD have been flexible. IF the owner pushed the schedule on the skipper, then pulled the EPIRB trigger because his balls shrunk, then that fucker needs to keep his feet dry. If, otoh, the skipper told the owner.."its just a full gale with squared up seas, no big deal", then he needs a boot in the nuts.

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OK great so we're back to square one again, with people that weren't there, and don't know the boat or parties involved, claiming that:

 

A) Rainmaker did NOT need a rescue

 

and

 

B) Was driven by a skipper who wasn't qualified to pick a weather window or prevent a boss from putting the boat in a bad situation

 

Que my original rant:

 

To the fuckwits on this thread trying their very best to find fault in any and everything this skipper and crew did: You clearly have not spent enough time at sea to know that sometimes, shit just goes wrong, sometimes, by no fault of anyone's. Might be a weather bomb, might be a catastrophic failure of the boat, or, often, a combination of both. And guess what - sometimes you can't foresee or prevent it with any amount of prudence.

 

Professional sailors have been sailing and dying and disappearing at sea since the beginning of time, read up on it some time.

 

I have sailed roughly 5,000 miles with the skipper of Rainmaker over the past 5 years, on many different boats - some under my command, some under his, including on Rainmaker offshore last fall. He is as competent and prudent and qualified on Gunboats as anyone I know, with the exception of maybe Soma - who, as you may have read, has also vouched for the guy. As has Peter Johnstone of Gunboat, and many many other pros in this thread.

 

So my question is what would it take for all of you to stfu, and give the man the benefit of the doubt until he is allowed to actually spill all the details (silence presumably due to insurance, boss, GB)!? I bet if Ben Ainsley, Jimmy Spithill, Loick Peyron, and Jesus himself sat down with you over a beer and said 'the guy is solid", you'd still be on here spitting your vile speculations to make you feel like a big experienced pro. Reality check - the real pro is the class-act of a skipper who is silently reading all of your posts, and keeping his mouth shut, because he thinks beyond his own ego and is trying protect his relationship with GB and his boss. I hope ya feel good about it, and I hope your in his same shoes one day, with the entire world slandering your seamanship because big weather meets unpredictable breakage on your boat and you had to be airlifted. The way I see it, dude's a hero for saving 5 lives.

 

I've always heard that 'shit flows downhill', but somehow, here, it seems to defy physics and flow round, and round, and round…..

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No, you're single minded in your obstinate belief that YOUR opinion is the only correct opinion.

 

Clearly Rainmaker needed a rescue because THE OWNER decided that he wanted off. I can envision him curled into a little ball waiting for the USCG helo. The boat, according to PJ was fine, albeit missing the vertical elements.

 

The skipper picked HIS weather window, not that of his OWNER. There is evidence to PROVE that neither the boat (dismasted) or half of his crew (owner/son EPIRB trigger) was up to the task of this particular wx window. Unless we hear from the owner that HE forced the departure date, then the skipper might have overestimated the abilities of his team to pull this passage off.

 

I'm all for freedom of choice. I just don't believe that serial abortions are a substitute for good birth control, and I don't believe that an EPIRB is a substitute for good planning.

 

And the only reason that you feel a cognitive dissonance is that you don't/won't accept that other's opinions might be both different and equally valid.

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Mundt,

 

Agree with pretty much all you posted, it's just that image from astern showing what appears to be a low bridge deck and aft beam.

 

Here's a bit 'fairer' view, showing RAINMAKER sitting pretty much on her lines... Some compression/foreshortening due the the use of a telephoto lens, but I think the overall perspective is reasonably accurate...

 

She's one sexy boat, no doubt about it...

 

 

3655-968x400.jpg

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I'm all for freedom of choice. I just don't believe that serial abortions are a substitute for good birth control, and I don't believe that an EPIRB is a substitute for good planning.

 

 

Just quoting that to make sure it gets more exposure. Whether applicable in this case is the subject of debate on this thread, however it has been applicable - and no mistake - in a number of superficially similar incidents recently.

 

Would Rainmaker have left port in the forecast conditions, if no EPIRB or sat phone had been on board? The answer to that question gets to the meat of the matter....

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In my opinion, they should have planned their voyage as if they were sailing a coastal cruiser.

 

I think the skipper and crew acted as responsibly as anyone could expect once in the storm. I just don't think the design was able to withstand Beaufort 8 with unpredictable & powerful gusts in the Gulf Stream because the GB55 is a highly powerful design that stays safe by always being stronger than the wind and waves. This works well until finite limits are reached. Once those design specs are surpassed, the rig comes down, and the longeron is no longer well supported under tension. I am not sure what this means for structural integrity, and I think the answer may involve what other damage is sustained as the rig tears away, so it remains an open question. The enormous openings to the stern, so enjoyable in nice weather, become a liability. The crew must either hunker down within the hulls, or risk holding on to the few handholds in the salon as it occasionally fills and empties rapidly with vast quantities of water.

 

Look at the stern of an Atlantic yacht of Chris White design. The aft porch is well protected, farther off the water. There is a solid bulkhead between the salon and the sea. The door through this bulkhead is solid, and is raised 8-10inches off the deck. That boat could take waves from astern and shrug them off. Previous versions didn't even have a stern door, giving testimony to how much CW respects a following sea. The GB60 has couches lining the aft bulkhead, so there is great structural rigidity at least at deck level. The two doors which swing shut look well built (and knowing GB standards certainly are well built, I just haven't been aboard.) These boats are better designed to go around the world unsupported.

 

I don't think Rainmaker had any business playing tag with winter weather systems off Hatteras. Once the rig came down, those aboard realized their Emperor had no clothes.

 

Please, pyrat, I have no axe to grind. I have great respect for your profession, and admire your thoughtful and generous acts as described in the article about the rescue you performed. I would like to hear your opinion of my analysis of the design choices of the GB55 and how they should impact routing choices for that type of vessel. One of the boats I am considering for eventual purchase is a MaineCat, and they share many design features found on the GB55. But I don't think anyone would consider taking it across oceans without meticulous planning and an appropriate weather window.

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OK here's my thoughts PhillySailor, starting with a disclaimer: I have a background of almost exclusively monohulls 60-100ft, and do not profess to be a catamaran guru in any way - certainly not as experienced or knowledgeable as Soma, CB, or the other GB skippers on here. This is strictly my observation on what impressed me and what didn't about the two models - I've sailed a Generation 1 GB60, and on Rainmaker as delivery crew.

 

You raise valid points and concerns about the 55, a few of which I share.

 

-The low, open transoms, and 'convertible' salon ie. indoor/outdoor space left me feeling a bit vulnerable, which is ironic given that I have spent roughly 70,000 offshore miles on a very wet helm on the back of a monohull, much closer to the water. I think what was weird was that you felt like you were supposed to be inside, but always aware that inside could very quickly become 'on deck'. This left me wondering if inexperienced owners/crew would be less prone to gear up with foulies and pfds at appropriate times or conditions, and just how much weather would it take to make inside, outside. I think this is just a product of habit stemming from my background - when inside a mono your'e entirely secure and enclosed on all sides, and when you go on deck you prepare for battle and take every precaution.

 

-I noticed while sailing any faster than 11-12 knots that the transom steps showed a lot of squat - this may be due to the fact that Rainmaker came out a bit heavy due to aftermarket equipment upgrades, but nonetheless, 2 out of 3 steps up into the salon were almost constantly underwater, even in moderate conditions, including the horizontal lifting hatch/door into the engine space (which is well sealed, but still…) Don't know how those things look in heavy snot downwind. Presumably at 20+ you'd have a rooster-tail and the stern wave would be separated from the transom more so not as much of a problem? Cant vouch for that either way, can't see it being more than a nuisance really, even if you took a an occasional wave over the stern upon deceleration (typically downwind you'd be outrunning the waves anyways?) Don't know how it would effect a stalled-in-huge-seas situation, but since the boat cant' sink, presumably closing off the doors would leave you with wet feet in the salon and not too much more.

 

-The bridge deck clearance never gave reason for concern as far as handling waves. We did some reach and running through a fairly good seaway, 6-8 footers off the coast of Delaware. How this contributes to the overall stance, balance, and structural integrity I have no idea but I have never had or heard of any reason not to trust PJ and Gunboat or their designers (Nigel Irens in this case). I never noticed any bad slapping or pounding. Harping again on the level of the transom and salon from the waterline, I could maybe see a problem - if you were to flood the salon from a wave pooping from astern - that the scuppers located at the entrance of both hulls might be insufficient and therefore allow a bit of a waterfall down into the cabins. Closing the hull-doors would presumably prevent this, can't vouch on how it all seals and drains, but again, would probably chock that up to an inconvenience that you get your beds a bit wet and have to run the bilge pumps a bit. Lord knows monohulls leak from anywhere they can fucking leak, though typically not water falling in through the companionway unless due to a huge freak wave.

 

-As for the wide open spaces, handholds, etc I never found that to be a problem. The motion on the boat is quite smooth. Perhaps pounding upwind or in a serious beam on sea with a lot of sliding, yawing, hobby-horsing, etc you could make an argument there, but given that the boat doesn't heal, I never felt at lack for a grab rail. The bulkheads and combings are all tall and offer plenty of security from inside the salon so that you don't feel endanger of MOB. The only exception there in with the aft-deck 'doors' which are Eisenglass/plastic with zippers on both sides to complete the enclosure. I would like to have seen a more rigid door, gate, or any sort of security bar there because if you did happen to lose balance and fall through one of those, you'd be damn close to water on those transoms. The deck also offered a reasonable platform from which to work, at least as nice a one as I've seen on a cat (trampolines still fuck with my head and balance).

 

-The greatest reservation I had about the 55' was her sailing properties. This boat is an absolute freaking weapon. Very powerful, very fast, and scarier than fast, very quick to accelerate. While close-reaching down the Chesapeake with the screecher, she would jump from 10 knots to 18 in a couple of seconds. And if you missed a puff and got out of phase, she would decelerate just as quickly, loading up the sails and rig. The sail handling systems, running rigging layout, safety dumps (buttons for traveler and main on both sides of helm) all were terrifically laid out for easy and safe handling, and again, I have no doubt as to the design and construction quality of this or any Gunboat. The only part that is really left in question is driver's ability to handle a boat like that. The GunBoat captains seemed to show her a good bit of respect, and if highly experienced GB skippers have a learning curve on it, what then of a middle-age cruising couple who want to cut the cord with desk jobs and circumnavigate without crew? Maybe they've sailed lots of cats before - perhaps even some uber-fast CW style boats; maybe they know how to bear-away during rapid acceleration; or when a boat like that is over pressed; know how to manage foils in different conditions…. I don't know, and I won't speculate on the GB customer market or current owners - just saying that personally, I'd have had a steep learning curve taking command of her.

 

As for the 60', I have always liked those 1st generation models the best. They are perhaps a bit slower to get rolling, but super fast once they do. They look and feel sturdy and secure in every way, rewarding to drive, excellent forward cockpits, they require knowledge of fast cats for sure but don't seem quite as powered up or twitchy, and have racked up some orgasm-worthy 24 hour runs offshore.

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I think that most posters here are making assumptions that do not hold water. Speculation as to the condition of the boat folowing the dismasting and contact with the cargo ship are just that, speculation. Rumors that there was an attempt to board the cargo ship are just that, rumors. I have heard that they were actually hit by a water spout with wind speeds to 100 mph causing the rig to fail, I don't care what weather window is chosen getting hit by a water spout is a pretty rare occurance, it happened to me one time in the Bahamas on a pretty nice day, roughest 45 minutes I've encountered anywhere. I have heard that some debris has been recovered, but no boat found. If the boat sank, then all of the bullshit about jury rigging and riding it out, or that people pushed the Epirb to quickly is just that, Bullshit. They got off when they could, waiting would have moved them further off shore and out of reach of the chopper. Five alive, I'll take it.

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I think that most posters here are making assumptions that do not hold water. Speculation as to the condition of the boat folowing the dismasting and contact with the cargo ship are just that, speculation. Rumors that there was an attempt to board the cargo ship are just that, rumors. I have heard that they were actually hit by a water spout with wind speeds to 100 mph causing the rig to fail, I don't care what weather window is chosen getting hit by a water spout is a pretty rare occurance, it happened to me one time in the Bahamas on a pretty nice day, roughest 45 minutes I've encountered anywhere. I have heard that some debris has been recovered, but no boat found. If the boat sank, then all of the bullshit about jury rigging and riding it out, or that people pushed the Epirb to quickly is just that, Bullshit. They got off when they could, waiting would have moved them further off shore and out of reach of the chopper. Five alive, I'll take it.

+10 Jaybird well said. Maybe since we haven't heard news of any salvage success (despite what was surely a timely, well funded, and well organized effort by GB and the underwriters), the boat has sunk, which would mean that someone made a pretty good call in evacuating the crew. Of course now I'm also guilty of speculating, but fuck it apparently thats what SA is for!

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Dear Mr. Pyrat,

Very refreshing change of tone. And now I'll wager that some irrational, ill-tempered hothead will start calling you all kinds of bad names for your well thought-out critique of the Gunboat as a heavy weather boat. Get ready for some vitriol, brother. Reread your first few posts for a preview of what'll be coming your way.

Here's my take: If a well-qualified skipper told me we were taking my multimillion dollar boat into strong gale+ conditions 100s of miles offshore I would require at least 3 people aboard who could comfortably handle any circumstance and any job, including highly competent driving for long periods of time, sail handling without the use of electric winches, working on any part of the boat under any conditions without verbal guidance etc. I'd want to be very sure that everyone on board was tougher and more able-bodied than me. I'd want to be the weakest link so that I'm not risking anybody else's arse or worrying about anybody but myself. When I got to my destination I'd fly in all my soft and furries to lounge on those nice big decks. Just my humble opinion.

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Boats can be very hard to locate. IIRC, & this was related to me by persons directly involved. A large (Deerfoot 65?) yacht was left adrift in the Atlantic, same region. USCG airlifted crew off, boat was left motoring under autopilot. Peolple involved with insurance & boat build chartered a lear jet & spent two full days searching for it. No luck. Vessel was abandoned because of seasickness(?) not any fault of the vessel. Never found.

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Hey Pyrat, you've done an admirable job of defending CB, made a few enemies, and now made a few friends. Nevertheless, fuck off newb! And show us (one of) your gf's tits!

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OK here's my thoughts PhillySailor, starting with a disclaimer: I have a background of almost exclusively monohulls 60-100ft, and do not profess to be a catamaran guru in any way - certainly not as experienced or knowledgeable as Soma, CB, or the other GB skippers on here. This is strictly my observation on what impressed me and what didn't about the two models - I've sailed a Generation 1 GB60, and on Rainmaker as delivery crew.

 

You raise valid points and concerns about the 55, a few of which I share........

 

Very interesting post, thanks...

 

Sailing one of those freakin' things, even in moderate conditions, is LIGHT YEARS beyond my pay grade, no doubt about it... The size alone of such cats would scare the shit out of me in a blow offshore, but something that responsive and powered up sounds to me like driving a McLaren or Ferrari supercar on black ice...

 

At this stage of my life in sailing, I'll stick with my puny 4 knot shitbox, thanks all the same...

 

;-)

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Hey Pyrat, you've done an admirable job of defending CB, made a few enemies, and now made a few friends. Nevertheless, fuck off newb! And show us (one of) your gf's tits!

 

Those of us in the know are far more interested in your women's protuberances right now!

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Boats can be very hard to locate. IIRC, & this was related to me by persons directly involved. A large (Deerfoot 65?) yacht was left adrift in the Atlantic, same region. USCG airlifted crew off, boat was left motoring under autopilot. Peolple involved with insurance & boat build chartered a lear jet & spent two full days searching for it. No luck. Vessel was abandoned because of seasickness(?) not any fault of the vessel. Never found.

 

Perhaps this incident will give some indication whether this system is really up to snuff?

 

http://www.marinelink.com/news/catamarans-security362102.aspx

 

Given the heavy weather in the immediate aftermath of the abandonment, I've felt all along that the odds of recovery might be a bit longer than many might have assumed... Even with the resources available to be thrown at it, it's got to be a VERY challenging assignment...

 

One of the more curious reports came from the initial write-up in YACHTING WORLD, that claimed that the CG had "placed a tracking device" aboard RAINMAKER... I can't recall that having been done before with a yacht being abandoned, and watching the rescue videos, it's obvious the rescue swimmer has higher priorities, and never appears to get close enough to the vessels to transfer a tracking device to anyone still aboard... Perhaps someone has better information re this?

 

In any event, it would certainly seem understandable if those involved in the search and recovery might choose to keep mum until the boat is back alongside a dock somewhere... Sure hope they manage to accomplish that, but given the recent history of yachts being abandoned offshore, it would be somewhat in the realm of a 'First'...

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jhiller....

 

 

MY EYES!!!!!

 

 

I can't even bring myself to re quote that pic!

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Dear Mr. Pyrat,

Very refreshing change of tone. And now I'll wager that some irrational, ill-tempered hothead will start calling you all kinds of bad names for your well thought-out critique of the Gunboat as a heavy weather boat. Get ready for some vitriol, brother. Reread your first few posts for a preview of what'll be coming your way.

Here's my take: If a well-qualified skipper told me we were taking my multimillion dollar boat into strong gale+ conditions 100s of miles offshore I would require at least 3 people aboard who could comfortably handle any circumstance and any job, including highly competent driving for long periods of time, sail handling without the use of electric winches, working on any part of the boat under any conditions without verbal guidance etc. I'd want to be very sure that everyone on board was tougher and more able-bodied than me. I'd want to be the weakest link so that I'm not risking anybody else's arse or worrying about anybody but myself. When I got to my destination I'd fly in all my soft and furries to lounge on those nice big decks. Just my humble opinion.

I've run that stretch of water in the winter any number of times professionally on large commercial ships (and one not so large).

 

There is NO WAY I'd choose to do it voluntarily in a play toy, no matter how hot and sexy it is. There is really no reason to risk my life and property at that time of year on an off chance that it might be 'okay'.

 

Often what CAN be done, really SHOULDN'T be done and as the financial advisors say-- ' past performance is no guarantee of future performance'.

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Soma seems to know and he said that it's fun, I believe he characterized it as, "playing with the big dogs,"

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