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DryArmour

RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE

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On the 2nd Feb the at South Hatteras sea buoy (NOAA) sustained winds peaked at 18 m/s (gust to 22 m/s) and sig wave height topped out at 6 m. The gale on the 5/6 Feb was less than that. on the 11th the storm was 23/28 m/s and 10.4 m sig wave height...again this is to be expected in those waters in the winter.

 

So then Jaybird, you saying that a Gunboat 55 is expected to founder in 6 meter sig waves (that means 12 meter every hour or 2, roughly)?

Because if that is the case, that boat would definitely have no business being out in the WNA. Because these are conditions to EXPECT they are not extreme or unusual, not in the least...

 

 

plot of significant wave height sorted through all data points past 45 days. You should notice that the conditions during the abandonment are not "tails" in the data...evidently the captain/crew deemed that she really wasn't seaworthy. Which one would certainly hope the loss of a rig wouldn't take you to that point. Some bum luck really, but why and how?



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I've got to admit, Jaybird, that it does seem a weakness you'd mention to Commandor's service if you can't trust this boat to stay afloat in strong winds and waves. They come up with a route for a boat, and vary that plan based on your boat to maximize safety, right? So what instructions are proper to Commodore's for a GB 55?

 

I actually don't think that the RM would have sunk that quickly, or become fragments in two days, although it is a possibility. My question isn't whether the captain and crew of RM made a good decision, but if you decided to stay and salvage, how would you do it?

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I've got to admit, Jaybird, that it does seem a weakness you'd mention to Commandor's service if you can't trust this boat to stay afloat in strong winds and waves. They come up with a route for a boat, and vary that plan based on your boat to maximize safety, right? So what instructions are proper to Commodore's for a GB 55?

 

I actually don't think that the RM would have sunk that quickly, or become fragments in two days, although it is a possibility. My question isn't whether the captain and crew of RM made a good decision, but if you decided to stay and salvage, how would you do it?

 

Deck cargo?

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And then two days of hurricane force winds and high seas break the boat up and all five aboard die.

 

 

JFC. There's a ringing endorsement.

 

 

 

 

Speaking of ringing endorsements...

 

 

 

 

If a storm is unavoidable, safety is derived from the ability to surf sideways. With daggerboards up, the round bottom hulls will skate sideways along waves, and the long high bows offer tremendous reserve buoyancy. We believe mega catamarans are the safest platform for surviving the worst weather.

 

...

 

Johnstone says he’s navigated through 70-knot gales in the North Atlantic by hauling down the sails, closing in the mammoth salon and pulling up the centerboards that help the boat track straight through the waves. When a rogue wave hits from the side, he says, the Gunboat just skids sideways with it, instead of absorbing tons of water on the deck like a monohull.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2014/09/11/on-a-gunboat-catamaran-you-can-have-your-martini-and-30-knots-too/

 

...

 

CB: I’ve sailed about 30,000 NM on Gunboats in winds up to 65knots, and always come through. We were extremely careful in our preparations and felt ready for anything, and I wouldn’t hesitate to take a Gunboat into that forecast again.

 

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So, you're the skipper of RM and you've been dismasted, suffering damage to the port side of your enclosure, both engines temporarily not available and waves are entering the cabin through the smashed windows. The owner looks at you with a determined look and says, "we are going to save this vessel, and YOU are going to tell us how."

 

My quick effort (albeit based on scant experience, and from the comfort of my dining room table with cup of tea) is the following.

 

Assign crew (with owner) to ensure that lifejackets are on and ditch kit available/augmented/documents secured. First mate assesses boat status, while I establish coms and alert authorities of PAN PAN, vessel adrift, and to create contact sched to better inform and make decisions while coms available. Owner's son is to make hot water for tea/coffee/hot meal for thermos while still power and use of stove. First mate whips out brake fluid and cleans up last of hydraulic fluid on deck and a bit in the cabin.

 

After assembling the crew in the starboard (dry) hull, and with a bit of food and tea, the idea for a sea anchor off the starboard hull is proffered, and thanks to a remembered thread on SA, anchors and settee cushions are used resulting in easier motion, fewer waves entering cabin from port abeam. Rear enclosure fabric, screws from toolkit and a rechargeable drill are used to (?temporarily?) seal port windows.

 

The longer range problems are now, rescue or salvage? And if a tow, how do you make a strong point for the towing cable? Jury rig or motors? Implications of the weather. How to seal off the port hull, given inability to close the sliding hatch. First mate not pleased by the lack of support for the longeron, either.

 

Ideas?

And then two days of hurricane force winds and high seas break the boat up and all five aboard die.
It's not a Hunter.

 

Shame Shame Shame on you! what would Warren or Steve say?!Don't be Knock'n those Hunters now....Besides those HC 50's weren't bad

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almost done!

 

 

Is that the real story or the press release announcing renewed partnership between SA and Gunboat? Which will Ed demand first the Chicken or The Egg?

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Crowley, Crowley, Crowley....hey don't we know a Crowley in the shipping biz? Maybe if we didn't ban him he could shed some insight? Just a thought.

right, that's just what he'd do!

 

It was a good press release though, wasn't it? Would love to see the close-up pic after the prang

So Master Clean, a massive spinning prop completely exposed in 10-15 foot seas on a laden ship with 26 foot sdrft just misses the GB by feet, and your response was what again? What was your quote? I know you are not a journalist, but you do claim to be a former Master of various 3rd world snorkeling picnic boats. With that vast seagoing experience, what is your opinion of that claim? With your vast admiralty law experience, do you think the Crowley ship was negligent somehow? What is wrong with their press release ? Did you call them to get their version of the 'prang'? Or Cap Kid's version who still thinks a tanker hit him?

 

 

You should take some journalism classes. You're clearly good at the first part of it!

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JPD sailed 2650mi with no keel in the 2012-13 Vendee Globe and finished 4th in his IMOCA 60.

 

This one time, at band camp...

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On the 2nd Feb the at South Hatteras sea buoy (NOAA) sustained winds peaked at 18 m/s (gust to 22 m/s) and sig wave height topped out at 6 m. The gale on the 5/6 Feb was less than that. on the 11th the storm was 23/28 m/s and 10.4 m sig wave height...again this is to be expected in those waters in the winter.

 

So then Jaybird, you saying that a Gunboat 55 is expected to founder in 6 meter sig waves (that means 12 meter every hour or 2, roughly)?

 

Because if that is the case, that boat would definitely have no business being out in the WNA. Because these are conditions to EXPECT they are not extreme or unusual, not in the least...

 

 

plot of significant wave height sorted through all data points past 45 days. You should notice that the conditions during the abandonment are not "tails" in the data...evidently the captain/crew deemed that she really wasn't seaworthy. Which one would certainly hope the loss of a rig wouldn't take you to that point. Some bum luck really, but why and how?

 

 

 

 

What about the 31st of January and the first of feb? I believe that was when the front was passing through the area that Rainmaker was located. I am not trying to convince you all that a Gunboat 55 is the boat for you. I have sailed thousands of miles with the crew members of Rainmaker over the past seven years and have a great deal of respect for their abilities, and their assessment of the boat. One of them has already done another offshore delivery on a 55 and the others have no qualms about going offshore on one again. That is good enough for me, I was originally asked to deliver Rainmaker when the departure was before Christmas, however the refit wasn't complete. I would not hesitate to deliver a 55 if the opportunity arises again. You are all entitled to your opinions, and conclusions, I just wish that you would base them on facts rather than speculation. Maybe part three will change your tune, probably not, most of you have entrenched your opinions in your posts by now and it will be difficult to walk them back now. It is easier to call CB a liar to support your opinion rather than to admit you reached the wrong conclusion using incorrect assumptions. Oh I almost forgot this is SA so fuck off you bunch of douchebags.

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My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

 

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

 

 

Well, talk about an anti climax....

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Turn of the month max sig wave ht at that buoy I referenced was only 4.4 meters.Max winds 17 gusting 20 m/s.

 

I have no doubt yuo'd go offshore in a GB 55. That's not what I'm asking--nor what many others are asking. We are wondering would you go offshore in the WINTER? Because that is not the same thing. Not even remotely the same thing. I don't think some people fully appreciate the difference in conditions.

For your elucidation compare the plot I gave previously, for the past 45 days, to a 4 month summer plot, June through Sept. Very very different statistics...

 

You should notice that the 80% highest waves are over twice as high in winter as in summer. So instead of 4 foot waves, you have 12 footers....and that's run of the mill....more or less like the conditions when RAINMAKER lost her rig...

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Not sure CB is doing any favours linking Michael with cowboys either.

 

Hope he asked him if he was happy being named....

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My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

 

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

 

thumbup.gif

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My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

 

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

 

Good write-up, Clean, thanks. Couple of good gaps identified as well...

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Looking at the picture of the boat with the window gone there is clearly a problem in keeping the water out. In the modern world of panoramic views etc. the large window sizes on these boats is a bit of an issue. With no materials to effectively board up the window then it is hard to see how a 80knot storm could be endured. Losing the rig on boats of this type is very likely to smash the windows and you are most likely to break a mast when it is windy.

 

Maybe designers need to come up with a bit of a emergency plan for the large windows they are putting into these type of boats. I am not suggesting that they should not keep putting the windows in as it is obvious the benefits for the occupants 95% of the time when they are not crossing oceans.

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My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

 

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

 

Good write-up, Clean, thanks. Couple of good gaps identified as well...

 

 

 

Gap 4: Mainsheet. While one of the crew took the helm from the autopilot within a second of when the squall hit, because he was immediately wrestling with the wheel, he was unable to reach the emergency mainsheet dump button about a foot in front of the helm. The rig came down a few seconds later. Would a mainsheet dump have saved the rig? We weren’t there, but there’s certainly a chance it could have. But if I was sailing along on a delivery at 10-20 knots in 35-40 knots with a storm jib and triple reefed main up, I might think one person could handle both jobs from a foot away, too. I’d be wrong, but I didn’t know that until after this incident.

 

 

I just sail little boats in little waters for the most part and don't know a thing about flying a hull on a 60' cruising cat, but if I'm about to go swimming (or break something) because of a sudden gust, the order of priority would be releasing the sheet(s) and THEN steering the boat.

 

Is that not how it's done on these things?

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but neither the crew nor Gunboat have anything to be ashamed about

 

 

Does anyone, including Mr Clean , think the marketing claims of these boats as being competent blue water, high latitude, circumnavigators are a bit overstated given all the information on engineering and construction that was brought out in this incident ? They make them sound like Nordhavns.

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but neither the crew nor Gunboat have anything to be ashamed about

 

 

Does anyone, including Mr Clean , think the marketing claims of these boats as being competent blue water, high latitude, circumnavigators are a bit overstated given all the information on engineering and construction that was brought out in this incident ? They make them sound like Nordhavns.

The Arcohc Australis at 3.61m is all that is required for circumnavigation, EVERYTHING else is a want!

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My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

 

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

 

Good write-up, Clean, thanks. Couple of good gaps identified as well...

 

 

 

Gap 4: Mainsheet. While one of the crew took the helm from the autopilot within a second of when the squall hit, because he was immediately wrestling with the wheel, he was unable to reach the emergency mainsheet dump button about a foot in front of the helm. The rig came down a few seconds later. Would a mainsheet dump have saved the rig? We weren’t there, but there’s certainly a chance it could have. But if I was sailing along on a delivery at 10-20 knots in 35-40 knots with a storm jib and triple reefed main up, I might think one person could handle both jobs from a foot away, too. I’d be wrong, but I didn’t know that until after this incident.

 

 

I just sail little boats in little waters for the most part and don't know a thing about flying a hull on a 60' cruising cat, but if I'm about to go swimming (or break something) because of a sudden gust, the order of priority would be releasing the sheet(s) and THEN steering the boat.

 

Is that not how it's done on these things?

 

 

According to the final chapter, the person at the helm wanted to push the red mainsheet release button as soon as the weather event hit, but fighting the helm delayed his ability to perform this before the rig came down. Sounds plausible, move along, all has been revealed......

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They make them sound like Nordhavns.

You gonna gette flicte!
?

That's a legitimate question especially if you watched the PJ video (the one he cries in).

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They make them sound like Nordhavns.

You gonna gette flicte!
?

That's a legitimate question especially if you watched the PJ video (the one he cries in).

 

juste jokeng, bad joke. sorrey.

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My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

 

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

 

Good write-up, Clean, thanks. Couple of good gaps identified as well...

 

 

 

Agreed... a pretty strong finish to a very good interview, overall...

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Newbie here. Also the type of "Owner Operator" circumnavigating with my family that PJ claims GBs are designed for. We're on a Lagoon 500 condominium, and we love her. She's taken us from Seattle to Bali over the last 2 and a half years. We've made tons of mistakes and we've learned a lot. I even met PJ once at Annapolis, and he seemed shocked that we were buying a Lagoon instead of a GB. GBs are awesome boats, they just aren't for us.

 

I've just spent a day reading this thread. Here's what I think:

  1. They should never have left when they did. Forecasts for 25-35 knots can easily become 50 knots, especially in Cape Hatteras in winter. Why go? What's the rush?
  2. Evans was right, in those squall conditions they shouldn't have had their main up. When the wind wall hit them, they spent a few precious seconds fucking around with trying to blow the main. A similar thing happened when the Atlantic 57 Anna flipped. Too much sail up when a surprise squall hit. It's better to sacrifice 50 miles a day of boat speed and be prepared for the 1% "surprise scenario" then, well, to be surprised. As a former new catamaran owner, I know how much fun it can be to try to hit those 200 mile days, and GB targets this in all of their marketing. But I think these guys had too much sail up. We're out in the Java Sea right now, and we've seen waterspouts and 50 knot sudden squalls. It's scary shit. We don't want our main up if we get hit by one.
  3. Commanders is great, and we use them on long passages. But we treat them as a secondary source and not as gospel.
  4. I love the old GB designs, but the new GB 55 looks to me like a party boat. And I should know, because I am circumnavigating on a party boat. But I'd never go offshore in a GB 55. Not enough protection, indoor sail controls, and slanted glass windows WAY too close to the mast. Does anyone else on this thread ever drop shit from a boson's chair?
  5. I showed the "how are the wife and kids ever going to clear away the rig?" photos to my wife and kids, and they thought they could have cleared that away. I know the situation on Rainmaker was much worse.
  6. I can't fault any of their decisions after the rig came down. I wasn't there. I wouldn't want to risk my life trying to save some guy's boat that should never have been out there in the first place.

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Steam Flyer - Are you suggesting that there is a cut-off point after which no boats should ever leave the East Coast? Noone should ever sail anywhere in the Winter? And they did not leave in front of a well-forecast/publicized storm. They left when THE FUCKING WEATHER ROUTER TOLD THEM TO. You saying you know more about weather routing than Commander's Weather?

 

Quote:Yeah, everybody who thinks it was unwise to go for a fun sail off Cape Hattaras... not only in the dead of winter but into the teeth of a storm that was making national news... we're all a bunch of wanna-be sailors, huh.

This whole episode was a sad clusterfuck and it's a matter of good luck on top of supreme dedication and competence on the part of the USCG that nobody died. I have no opinion on whether the boat was properly built etc etc -BUT- acting as though one is bulletproof is a whole different thing when real bullets start flying past your head.

This is a case of a super rich guy and his hired help seeking thrills and attempting to prove how bad-ass they are. Well guess what, Mother Nature kicked them aside casually and now they are trying to preen and posture that yeah they're really still bad-asses, you just don't understand etc etc.

I have been in hurricanes but not by choice. I have never been off Cape Hattaras in a winter storm and instead of thinking I should shut my pie-hole, I think a lot of people would be wiser to follow my example

Commanders choices

 

Leave now and get ass raped by a front

Leave tomorrow and just have regular intercourse in between two fronts followed by ass rape by the second front

Leave day after tomorrow and have anal on the beach in Hatteras inlet

 

Sounds like Commanders nailed it to me

 

Anyone who jumps because a router told them to jump deserves what they get.

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I observed a trend over the years, to remove any aspect of sailing from sailing.

Furlers-check.

Electric winches-check.

Autopilot-check

No heeling condomarans-check

Let's get that ugly mast out of the middle of the salon-check

 

I agree... At some point why not do the obvious and remove mast and sails altogether? It's the logical endpoint. Then actual sailors will determine the market, and the condo-buyers can have their separate party barge market.

embrace diversity...

 

there are now sailboats for every kind of sailor - not just the kind of sailor you are

 

why should all sailboats be built to appeal to you?

GB owners are sailors? Seriously?

 

 

 

Watch Clean's pimping video on the owners. One of the cutie wives talks with pride on her J105 accomplishments.

 

If you pull some of the old marketing materials you could reach the conclusion that Gunboat is really nothing more than a MacGregor on steroids... fast, light, go anywhere with the whole family... Now you can have a wider and faster MacGregor in any paint combination at less than 200 times the original cult(relabled Tribe) cost.

 

Gunboat55Vandal4b.jpg

 

THAT is disruptive!

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Clean,

 

Generally avoiding this (the 2) circle jerk thread(s) but will drop a line to note my thanks for the write-up. Some useful bits in there to add to those from the various offline conversations.

 

Certainly different challenges in taking 18 wheelers and porsches along that route.

 

Did Jon/CB actually say they were going for the mainsail dump or is that your speculation? Wondered if they just tried going deep and "feathering" while sheeted. Did they say it was Jon's first reaction to dump? When you wrote he was fighting the helm it makes it sound like he could not get it turned down deep (at which point he maybe would dump). If so this sort of suggests it was not a gybe that took the rig down.

 

Can relate to the "how quickly" comments. Once the call is made and given the location, weather and owner being aboard, I think anyone with a ticket immediately has to make the call, these things take on a life of their own.

 

Anyway, thanks for posting it.

 

We now return you to your regular posers and bashing show.

 

Cheers,

 

Wess

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With all this talk of rescues at sea we should thank the man/engineer who set out to do the impossible and achieved it....

 

Igor Sikorsky

200px-Sikorsky%2C_Igor.jpg

 

hat.jpg

 

http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/Igor_Sikorsky.php

You forgot somebody:

Frank Piasecki:

Frank-Piasecki-header.jpg

 

http://www.piasecki.com/frank.php

logo-header.jpg

 

 

The great thing is, it doesn't matter if you're on a $3M yacht, or something you bought off eBay, or some crap you hammered together yourself. It doesn't matter if you're a professional captain on an oceangoing vessel, or someone who's never been at sea before in a 15' aluminum skiff.

 

If you are in trouble, and they know about it, the USCG (and many others around the world) will come to your rescue. Anyone can question actions taken by crew and captains after the fact but these folks are hero's every day and night throughout the year....

 

https://www.facebook.com/AIRSTATVC?fref=photo

 

10934074_405674612932543_607912421647737

 

John

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@ Mr. Matthews... indeed whirly-birds

 

Where would the military, offshore oil industry, out of luck sailors and now with AI drone versions soon coming… all the other niche roles served be without these incredible machines.

 

?

 

Handle with care though, if you think mega do$$ars million buck luxury glass topped glam Cat’s are tricky-dicky…

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihcJR0zvfM

 

Meanwhile thanks Mr. Clean for the final chapter of this sorry tale.

 

Me, myself I…. thinks that Keb’ should have the last word on this….

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It2QOSUeQVk

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So at the end of the day nothing is learned and the arrogance of the Gunboat captains remained unchecked. Great................ can't wait for the next episode of as the GB world turns.

 

SA: And is 40+ knots in the North Atlantic in winter really Gunboat weather in your opinion?

CB: I’ve sailed about 30,000 NM on Gunboats in winds up to 65knots, and always come through. We were extremely careful in our preparations and felt ready for anything, and I wouldn’t hesitate to take a Gunboat into that forecast again.

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So at the end of the day nothing is learned and the arrogance of the Gunboat captains remained unchecked. Great................ can't wait for the next episode of as the GB world turns.

 

SA: And is 40+ knots in the North Atlantic in winter really Gunboat weather in your opinion?

CB: I’ve sailed about 30,000 NM on Gunboats in winds up to 65knots, and always come through. We were extremely careful in our preparations and felt ready for anything, and I wouldn’t hesitate to take a Gunboat into that forecast again.

"Chris Bailet proved that his shoreside preparation is tops and that he’s great under fire, and he’ll no doubt be working on another Gunboat before too long. And I wouldn’t hesitate to do a delivery with him, any time, anywhere".

Me neither......when the shit hit s the fan, I know we will be getting a ride home!

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My apologies if I missed this....Maybe it was and no one expected anyone to actually take them to sea in winter.

 

They definitely did not do any practice dismastings to see what would break

Without further ado...

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/2015/03/01/the-last-of-the-rainmaker/

 

 

Well, talk about an anti climax....

 

 

U should probably avoid getting yourself all excited over a piece about a dismasting. It's never all that exciting.

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Clean,

 

Generally avoiding this (the 2) circle jerk thread(s) but will drop a line to note my thanks for the write-up. Some useful bits in there to add to those from the various offline conversations.

 

Certainly different challenges in taking 18 wheelers and porsches along that route.

 

Did Jon/CB actually say they were going for the mainsail dump or is that your speculation? Wondered if they just tried going deep and "feathering" while sheeted. Did they say it was Jon's first reaction to dump? When you wrote he was fighting the helm it makes it sound like he could not get it turned down deep (at which point he maybe would dump). If so this sort of suggests it was not a gybe that took the rig down.

 

Can relate to the "how quickly" comments. Once the call is made and given the location, weather and owner being aboard, I think anyone with a ticket immediately has to make the call, these things take on a life of their own.

 

Anyway, thanks for posting it.

 

We now return you to your regular posers and bashing show.

 

Cheers,

 

Wess

 

The event started on autopilot, many have noted the boat layout could hamper situational awareness, not all pro crew are veteran instinctive dingy helmsman. I suspect there is something like pilot vertigo inside the boat on a major puff(whiteout) with the cabin all shut... I wonder about a family cruiser with an emergency stop button for the main? At some point marketing, fantasy, vision, passion may get ahead of the realities of modern families and mother nature.

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Alan it is a great story... You are correct years ago we would not have read much like this in our magazines we waited for most months. The only thing close I can remember was when the "Wolf of Wall Street" sank the former Big Eagle in a lunchtime storm with blown windows or hatches. The long time captain did talk through at least one magazine.

 

I wonder how the relentless pounding on SA help build the story? Or did you get all this in a single call long before the peanut gallery started chiming in?

"U should probably avoid getting yourself all excited over a piece about a dismasting. It's never all that exciting."

 

The hype and seemingly missed answer dates started at least in part from SA. Then GB also laid some hype on the boats long before the simple weather event.

 

A watch of the video on a really good screen shows an owner reaching the helo looking not so good. The sea is a really big place to find anything lost. Until you try most do not get that. The fact that more than once folks found debris shows to me life aboard would have been very harsh for any who stayed. My two cents with passengers aboard the crew and person in command had a duty to get the passengers and crew off when he could. The opportunity for safe harbor was permitted and he took it. How many of you have had more than one item from a boat washed away in a seaway? If the boat stayed afloat maybe the crew could have survived locked down in one of the several watertight compartments. Who here want to go inside on of those and batten the hatch until the seas calm?

 

It is up to Gunboat to answer why the rig failed and if they are willing to make any changes to mitigate future risk and damage from weather events. The same is true only Gunboat should position the intended use for the design and build.

 

Rich Owners played a role in the loss here too...

 

6825_48fb_960.jpeg

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The start of The Story one month ago.... just sayin.... One a positive side! Your readers or followers were interested and you did get the "story".



Mr. Clean said...



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Posted 30 January 2015 - 09:59 PM


"Glad everyone is safely on the ground. We'll get the full story in the morning."

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So at the end of the day nothing is learned and the arrogance of the Gunboat captains remained unchecked. Great................ can't wait for the next episode of as the GB world turns.

 

SA: And is 40+ knots in the North Atlantic in winter really Gunboat weather in your opinion?

CB: I’ve sailed about 30,000 NM on Gunboats in winds up to 65knots, and always come through. We were extremely careful in our preparations and felt ready for anything, and I wouldn’t hesitate to take a Gunboat into that forecast again.

 

I think Clean makes a valid observation in his "Gap 1":

 

Gap 1: Departure. While I wouldn’t have hesitated to leave on the forecast Rainmaker had, it would be for the express purpose of hauling ass. Rainmaker’s average speeds up to the dismasting don’t indicate she was in any rush at all, and if that’s the case, there was no reason for them to leave with that forecast.

 

Unfortunately, his last paragraph is tainted with the phrase "an unforecast and extreme weather event"... which appears to be more of a preclusion than a conclusion. The forecast they had prior to departure proved to be extremely accurate, down to the peak hour of the storm where they were located.

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I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

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I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

 

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

 

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

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I guess you could sail with Hot Rod, the Condor 40 folks or the E Bay duo too? They all received rides courtesy the USCG. It bothers me that no lessons were learned and the captains of GB defend the actions knowing the outcome.

 

 

So at the end of the day nothing is learned and the arrogance of the Gunboat captains remained unchecked. Great................ can't wait for the next episode of as the GB world turns.

 

SA: And is 40+ knots in the North Atlantic in winter really Gunboat weather in your opinion?

CB: I’ve sailed about 30,000 NM on Gunboats in winds up to 65knots, and always come through. We were extremely careful in our preparations and felt ready for anything, and I wouldn’t hesitate to take a Gunboat into that forecast again.

"Chris Bailet proved that his shoreside preparation is tops and that he’s great under fire, and he’ll no doubt be working on another Gunboat before too long. And I wouldn’t hesitate to do a delivery with him, any time, anywhere".

Me neither......when the shit hit s the fan, I know we will be getting a ride home!

 

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How many Star boat sailors have been helo lifted back to shore? I always managed to sail my star back to the dock after breaking shit, no CG was required.

 

 

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

 

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

 

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

 

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Clean - good ending. You did as much as you could given the commercial relationship SA and GB have. Serializing the story kept the hits and interest up.

Nothing new really. It was obvious on the first post that the boat was out in the wrong place at the wrong time. Trying to make a dash behind one front and ahead of another is a risky play and it assumes nothing goes wrong and speed is maintained. Obviously this did not happen.

It was implied early on the owner was not in good shape mentally at least with the situation and that seems to be true. Given the weather coming at them and the poor state of the boat and 2 passengers, getting off seems pretty much a given.

I don't think you mentioned in your questions or the "gaps" not having a sea anchor. That could have made a HUGE difference and I am surprised none was aboard.

Finally you aren't going to say it for obvious reasons, but the boat looks much more like a high-tech day boat than an offshore boat. That boat should never have taken on the winter North Atlantic IMHO. I have bashed through the Gulf Stream enough times to be scared of that glass in the summer :o

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Looking at the picture of the boat with the window gone there is clearly a problem in keeping the water out. In the modern world of panoramic views etc. the large window sizes on these boats is a bit of an issue. With no materials to effectively board up the window then it is hard to see how a 80knot storm could be endured. Losing the rig on boats of this type is very likely to smash the windows and you are most likely to break a mast when it is windy.

 

Maybe designers need to come up with a bit of a emergency plan for the large windows they are putting into these type of boats. I am not suggesting that they should not keep putting the windows in as it is obvious the benefits for the occupants 95% of the time when they are not crossing oceans.

 

 

I think that on this boat, the issue with the windows has been way overstated

 

as has been pointed out above...

 

if the hulls can be closed off from the salon.., there doesn't have to be any issue at all

 

any water that comes in there after they break just flows off the transom

 

then, the windows are just a big hard dodger - not mission critical hardware

 

the GB 55 has doors to close off the hulls.

 

problem is they were inoperable

 

most catamarans have _nothing_

 

i have looked at pictures of CW Atlantic cats - i saw no provision for sealing off the hulls

 

it sucks that one of the doors was inoperable, but in GB's defense, this is somewhat of an unusual accident, and it would have been hard to anticipate that the doors would become inoperable in this fashion.

 

while i wouldn't call the whole incident a "freak accident".., this particular part of is kind of new to me...

 

something has been learned.

 

i am sure GB and the owners can come up with a more robust system if it is desired - maybe just washboards

 

I don't see the windows as a fundamental problem with the design of the boat - once you have the ability to close off the hulls

 

if I owned one, and intended to do a lot of ocean sailing, , i would reconsider the possibility of polycarbonate or other plastics for the windows

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For open ocean sailing - I would say YES :rolleyes:

(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)

 

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

 

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

 

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

 

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I have to question the "do it again" statement also. The boat wasn't able to handle the forecasted weather. Do it again? What? Maybe some peep are slow learners. I can't argue the decision to abandon after the freighter collision, we don't know the extent of the damage incurred...but the panic button was pushed much earlier. If a new GB can't handle those conditions under the control of an experienced professional delivery crew, then GB has some work to do to make it a globe-circling family cruiser. This wasn't an act of God, this was a result of several errors by several parties... the biggest error perhaps the hubris of thinking $2.5 M of disruptive technology was stronger than anything Mother Nature could dish out.

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Great boat.

Great crew.

Great plan.

Great weather.

Just one little tiny issue..........

5930-shipwreck_man_looking.630w.tn.jpg

I have to question the "do it again" statement also. The boat wasn't able to handle the forecasted weather. Do it again? What? Maybe some peep are slow learners. I can't argue the decision to abandon after the freighter collision, we don't know the extent of the damage incurred...but the panic button was pushed much earlier. If a new GB can't handle those conditions under the control of an experienced professional delivery crew, then GB has some work to do to make it a globe-circling family cruiser. This wasn't an act of God, this was a result of several errors by several parties... the biggest error perhaps the hubris of thinking $2.5 M of disruptive technology was stronger than anything Mother Nature could dish out.

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How many Star boat sailors have been helo lifted back to shore? I always managed to sail my star back to the dock after breaking shit, no CG was required.

 

 

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

 

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

 

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

 

 

 

 

in what way is the boat "deeply flawed"

 

for reasons outlined a few posts up, i don't believe the windows are a deep flaw

 

a rig can come down on any boat

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I can't believe that people here are actually responding to Clean's "Boy's Own" adventure story as if it has substance. COMPLETE whitewash filtered through a bunch of lawyers and PR pros. This is FICTION folks.

 

List of complete non sequitors (help me out here):

- disruptive storm evading speed - turns out to be 7 knots

- asleep on autopilot on a multi in 40 knots

- the carbon crunching oil tanker (didn't count on the ship in question posting embarrassing photos - am looking forward to more details from the ship)

- "microburst" - i.e.line squall with higher gusts

- 70 knots - bullshit (look at the weather bouys)

- 25' waves - bullshit (look at the weather bouys and ship pics)

- massive thrashing propeller - bullshit

 

I actually have sympathy for all involved. What gets me going is when people shamelessly bullshit, which leads OBVIOUSLY to people calling them on bullshit (as many here have done).

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For open ocean sailing - I would say YES :rolleyes:

(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)

 

 

 

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

 

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

Hmmm, interesting thought. With reefing gear, I have no doubt a prepared Star could make Bermuda in decent weather. I've seen a Star weather a 50+ knot thunderstorm under full sail, although the sails were trashed afterward. Rig would not be a problem if you're very carefull. Accomodations would leave a lot to be desired.

Uffa Fox sailed an Int 14 across the English Channel and back in the 30s. They had ballasted CBs and roller reefing back then.

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How many Star boat sailors have been helo lifted back to shore? I always managed to sail my star back to the dock after breaking shit, no CG was required.

 

 

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

 

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

 

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

 

 

 

 

That would be crew versus boat. If you broke the rig in the Star near Rainmaker that day you would need a helo the the ability to climb the net onto the ship. This thread bunches up the command, crew, passengers, and boat all on the same shitpile. Each one makes the responsibility and outcome distinctively different.

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For open ocean sailing - I would say YES :rolleyes:

(I actually once was asked to sail a Star to Bermuda ages ago. I said GTFO!)

 

I don't get it. The boat failed in the forecast and expected conditions yet they boldly claim they would go do it again in the same conditions. Think they may have drunk the GB cool aid?

 

Do we know? Did the boat fail or did the helmsman on watch allow the boat to go through an uncontrolled gybe in changing and severe weather weather?

 

Until someone credible puts a stake in the ground on why or how the rig failed we do not know. One thing interesting. One of the most respected yacht designers alive post very early on the thread. Then nothing from the experienced and educated on yacht design. I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

 

 

 

We may be in agreement... I am starting to think the GB 55 is the hottest day boat, coastal boat, saltwater party barge in history... still troubled by the lack of AC... Maybe better for Maine and Block Island Race Week?

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Alan it is a great story... You are correct years ago we would not have read much like this in our magazines we waited for most months. The only thing close I can remember was when the "Wolf of Wall Street" sank the former Big Eagle in a lunchtime storm with blown windows or hatches. The long time captain did talk through at least one magazine.

 

I wonder how the relentless pounding on SA help build the story? Or did you get all this in a single call long before the peanut gallery started chiming in?

"U should probably avoid getting yourself all excited over a piece about a dismasting. It's never all that exciting."

 

The hype and seemingly missed answer dates started at least in part from SA. Then GB also laid some hype on the boats long before the simple weather event.

 

A watch of the video on a really good screen shows an owner reaching the helo looking not so good. The sea is a really big place to find anything lost. Until you try most do not get that. The fact that more than once folks found debris shows to me life aboard would have been very harsh for any who stayed. My two cents with passengers aboard the crew and person in command had a duty to get the passengers and crew off when he could. The opportunity for safe harbor was permitted and he took it. How many of you have had more than one item from a boat washed away in a seaway? If the boat stayed afloat maybe the crew could have survived locked down in one of the several watertight compartments. Who here want to go inside on of those and batten the hatch until the seas calm?

 

It is up to Gunboat to answer why the rig failed and if they are willing to make any changes to mitigate future risk and damage from weather events. The same is true only Gunboat should position the intended use for the design and build.

 

Rich Owners played a role in the loss here too...

 

6825_48fb_960.jpeg

 

 

I met the Skipper of the 'Big Eagle' shortly after his mis-adventure and the loss of the vessel due to a 'I want to be there now!' attitude by the owner. He said he really felt like telling the owner he was nuts to make that short passage and offered to fly the owner over to the big wingding that the owner just had to attend. The biggest perk to the skipper was that he got to fly the helo and log time as well as the added sum to his salary being both the yacht skipper and the chopper pilot. The boss wanted to pull up in his yacht at the party AND then take the chopper to the beach for the greatest ego impact. When the big 40' 'gofast' tender which was being towed came surfing past the boat and then bashed in the 'garage doors' which led to the yachts flooding and eventual sinking, reality started to set in. The tender soon parted its line and then the seas smashed in the salon glass sliders and flooded the whole salon. Couches and furniture washing out. THe owner then demanded to fire up the helo and get he and his wife off of the boat but it was rolling too bad for a take off. Worst of all for the skipper was having to go up on the flight deck and jettison the helo to try and lower the CG and quell some of the rolling. The owner had just watched two of his expensive toys sink and now was stuck on board for the duration on the nightmare. The Italian CG or Navy did an admirable taking the owner and his party off by their helo as well as most of the crew, but you really have to hand it to the mate or engineer who stayed on board and scuttled the 'Big Eagle' and got plucked out of the water after it went down. Best part of this story is that the Skipper and crew kept their jobs and got even bigger new toys (and helo) to play with. I think that a hostess and cook opted out. All in a days work! Oh, they had a seaplane on board too... I guess what they really needed was one of those mini-submarines!

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I said it was full. I didn't say it was that exciting. But most importantly, I didn't say which morning.

 

:P

 

 

 

 

The start of The Story one month ago.... just sayin.... One a positive side! Your readers or followers were interested and you did get the "story".
Mr. Clean said...
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34,477 posts
Location:Everywhere you want to be
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Posted 30 January 2015 - 09:59 PM
"Glad everyone is safely on the ground. We'll get the full story in the morning."

 

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I can take you out on a Star Boat and break a rig in seconds. Does that mean all Star Boats are deeply flawed?

 

 

Completely and totally. Not unlike a beautiful woman.

 

that's why Star sailors love them.

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Did it survive the expected conditions? Why might it not suffer the same fate again in those same conditions?

 

I don't question there decision to leave, abandon the boat, I question the statements that the boat can handle such conditions again.


 

 

in what way is the boat "deeply flawed"

 

for reasons outlined a few posts up, i don't believe the windows are a deep flaw

 

a rig can come down on any boat

 

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if I owned one, and intended to do a lot of ocean sailing, , i would reconsider the possibility of polycarbonate or other plastics for the windows

 

 

I'm not sure polycarbonate is the answer for windows that big. It does not break easily, but it is quite flexible, and can be forced out of the frame fairly easily. You might not have broken glass on the deck, but you would still have an open window frame, and a big, heavy piece of plastic bashing around.

 

Also not sure that having plywood covers is a great solution. Have you ever tried to manhandle a piece of plywood that big in 40 knots of wind?

 

The solution probably involves breaking up the large glass panels into smaller ones, perhaps in combination with polycarbonate and storm covers.

 

 

They found a debris field but no boat. What happened to the boat? Sure it would drift faster than the debris, but they must have been pretty close.

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The image used with Chapter 3 of "The Story" clearly shows how a large person can handle each of the winches without physically interfering with the helmsman. The space is clearly much larger and more open than many pictures communicate.

 

 

IMG_3924-crop.jpg

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Even if fatally damaged by the freighter, I would think there would be large pieces of boat afloat. The starboard hull was undamaged, as I understand. I'm surprised a big chunk of boat wasn't spotted near the debris field.

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Did it survive the expected conditions? Why might it not suffer the same fate again in those same conditions?

 

I don't question there decision to leave, abandon the boat, I question the statements that the boat can handle such conditions again.

 

 

in what way is the boat "deeply flawed"

 

for reasons outlined a few posts up, i don't believe the windows are a deep flaw

 

a rig can come down on any boat

 

 

 

 

that's ridiculous

 

small problems can often lead to a hull loss - sometimes the boat might be deeply flawed, but often it's a simple fix

 

i think this is more like the simple fix

 

we were told that water flowing down into one of the hulls was a significant factor in wanting to get off

 

the door didn't work

 

ok - design a better door for keeping water from draining into the hulls

 

if the washboards ripped out on a mono hull would you say it's deeply flawed, or would you build new/better washboards?

 

everyone is entitled to their opinion - i know you have done a lot of ocean sailing.., so have I.., and I would sail on the ocean on this boat, with a better washboard system

 

it sounds like you wouldn't want to come along - ok that's fine

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Even if fatally damaged by the freighter, I would think there would be large pieces of boat afloat. The starboard hull was undamaged, as I understand. I'm surprised a big chunk of boat wasn't spotted near the debris field.

 

 

Have you ever tried even once to find something after losing sight of it in the ocean...

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What chunks of a Guboat would you expect to float? Their new proprietary lighter-than-water carbon fiber?

 

Even if fatally damaged by the freighter, I would think there would be large pieces of boat afloat. The starboard hull was undamaged, as I understand. I'm surprised a big chunk of boat wasn't spotted near the debris field.

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corecell floats...

 

It sounds like there was no coaming or "sill height" at that opening into the hull. If that is the case, that's just stupid.

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Of interest, perhaps. This is what is left of SV Sirocco, abandoned off Oz last October. Recently found by the Sea Shepherd people. It would appear that the back fell off. Hmmm?

 

gallery_30864_676_50508.jpg

gallery_30864_676_33795.jpg

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Does this event lead to the conclusion this boat's design is flawed for an off-shore capable catamaran?

 

Let's review:

 

• Rig comes down (this is nothing extraordinary, happens regularly, offshore and inshore)

• Crashes onto cabin top, breaks the big picture window, flooding main salon and electrics (this is now a catastrophic failure.

It appears no provision has been made to handle such an event) the window is now a 3'x4' hole to the North Atlantic.

• Starboard engine won't start, port engine does start, crew fails to ensure the prop won't tangle and so prop gets wrapped (this seems an avoidable crew mistake) and port engine is now out of commission (not catastrophic)

• Starboard engine is eventually started but stalls out (seems odd unless there was water being ingested by the intake air)

• Weather forecast is for more bad and possibly worse weather (this is the North Atlantic in mid-winter, nothing unusual here).

• Experienced delivery captain comes to the conclusion to abandon ship (same place and same conclusion as the recent Kiwi nutcases came to)

• Outcome: all crew safely rescued, vessel has not been found and appears a total loss (pretty much a regular occurrence in those waters).

 

In review: with one catastrophic failure of the main salon window the yacht is ultimately lost. It seems to me Either one of two things is true: the lack of a pre-departure damage control plan for this event is evidence of a lack of planning on the part of its crew or the design of these windows is not suitable for an off-shore vessel.

 

I'll never be in a position for afford a GB but if I were headed offshore, even in summer, it wouldn't be on this boat as designed.

 

 

 

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Does this event lead to the conclusion this boat's design is flawed for an off-shore capable catamaran?

 

Let's review:

 

• Rig comes down (this is nothing extraordinary, happens regularly, offshore and inshore)

• Crashes onto cabin top, breaks the big picture window, flooding main salon and electrics (this is now a catastrophic failure.

It appears no provision has been made to handle such an event) the window is now a 3'x4' hole to the North Atlantic.

• Starboard engine won't start, port engine does start, crew fails to ensure the prop won't tangle and so prop gets wrapped (this seems an avoidable crew mistake) and port engine is now out of commission (not catastrophic)

• Starboard engine is eventually started but stalls out (seems odd unless there was water being ingested by the intake air)

• Weather forecast is for more bad and possibly worse weather (this is the North Atlantic in mid-winter, nothing unusual here).

• Experienced delivery captain comes to the conclusion to abandon ship (same place and same conclusion as the recent Kiwi nutcases came to)

• Outcome: all crew safely rescued, vessel has not been found and appears a total loss (pretty much a regular occurrence in those waters).

 

In review: with one catastrophic failure of the main salon window the yacht is ultimately lost. It seems to me Either one of two things is true: the lack of a pre-departure damage control plan for this event is evidence of a lack of planning on the part of its crew or the design of these windows is not suitable for an off-shore vessel.

 

I'll never be in a position for afford a GB but if I were headed offshore, even in summer, it wouldn't be on this boat as designed.

 

 

 

 

 

Not it all odd on the engine in 2015... there were notes of salt water intrusion. Salt water was coming in through the window opening and through conduits open up when the mast imploded. The modern engine with so many electrical controls and failsafes can shut itself down for many reasons. There are both benefits and drawbacks. The boat had been in a disrupted sea state for hours. There could have easily been fuel quality or supply issues with the first tank shake up in sometime or maybe ever. Maybe add Rainmaker to a long list of boats that have had engine trouble show up after just a few hours offshore..

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It's a big ocean and many boats have been abandoned and found months later.

 

Cheeki Rafiki was looked for and not found until months later. MAIB still not released on that one?

 

My money is on it being found.

 

 

Edit: Just looked at UK MAIB website. Investigation on Cheeky Rafiki incident completed and is in `consultation' process. Which means to be released soon...

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They eventually found Ramtha and towed her in and gave her back to her owners....

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that's ridiculous

 

 

 

 

 

we were told that water flowing down into one of the hulls was a significant factor in wanting to get off

 

 

 

 

That's not quite true but if there was no lip to the companionway then this could be a concern.

 

The only reference to the issue:

 

"The port forward window is gone. We were getting rainwater and salt spray in the salon

 

The port companionway hatch could be an issue if seas get bigger. George checks the port hull bilges for water. There is none."

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Does this event lead to the conclusion this boat's design is flawed for an off-shore capable catamaran?

 

Let's review:

 

• Rig comes down (this is nothing extraordinary, happens regularly, offshore and inshore)

• Crashes onto cabin top, breaks the big picture window, flooding main salon and electrics (this is now a catastrophic failure.

It appears no provision has been made to handle such an event) the window is now a 3'x4' hole to the North Atlantic.

• Starboard engine won't start, port engine does start, crew fails to ensure the prop won't tangle and so prop gets wrapped (this seems an avoidable crew mistake) and port engine is now out of commission (not catastrophic)

• Starboard engine is eventually started but stalls out (seems odd unless there was water being ingested by the intake air)

• Weather forecast is for more bad and possibly worse weather (this is the North Atlantic in mid-winter, nothing unusual here).

• Experienced delivery captain comes to the conclusion to abandon ship (same place and same conclusion as the recent Kiwi nutcases came to)

• Outcome: all crew safely rescued, vessel has not been found and appears a total loss (pretty much a regular occurrence in those waters).

 

In review: with one catastrophic failure of the main salon window the yacht is ultimately lost. It seems to me Either one of two things is true: the lack of a pre-departure damage control plan for this event is evidence of a lack of planning on the part of its crew or the design of these windows is not suitable for an off-shore vessel.

 

I'll never be in a position for afford a GB but if I were headed offshore, even in summer, it wouldn't be on this boat as designed.

 

 

 

The window was much bigger than 3' X 4'. I thought the nutcases were Australian, not Kiwi.

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Does this event lead to the conclusion this boat's design is flawed for an off-shore capable catamaran?

 

Let's review:

 

Rig comes down (this is nothing extraordinary, happens regularly, offshore and inshore)

Crashes onto cabin top, breaks the big picture window, flooding main salon and electrics (this is now a catastrophic failure.

It appears no provision has been made to handle such an event) the window is now a 3'x4' hole to the North Atlantic.

Starboard engine won't start, port engine does start, crew fails to ensure the prop won't tangle and so prop gets wrapped (this seems an avoidable crew mistake) and port engine is now out of commission (not catastrophic)

Starboard engine is eventually started but stalls out (seems odd unless there was water being ingested by the intake air)

Weather forecast is for more bad and possibly worse weather (this is the North Atlantic in mid-winter, nothing unusual here).

Experienced delivery captain comes to the conclusion to abandon ship (same place and same conclusion as the recent Kiwi nutcases came to)

Outcome: all crew safely rescued, vessel has not been found and appears a total loss (pretty much a regular occurrence in those waters).

 

In review: with one catastrophic failure of the main salon window the yacht is ultimately lost. It seems to me Either one of two things is true: the lack of a pre-departure damage control plan for this event is evidence of a lack of planning on the part of its crew or the design of these windows is not suitable for an off-shore vessel.

 

I'll never be in a position for afford a GB but if I were headed offshore, even in summer, it wouldn't be on this boat as designed.

 

 

 

The boat had been in a disrupted sea state for hours.

Then why the fuck pay for all that disruptive technology on board!! ???

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in what way are the photos "embarrassing"?

Why are you focusing on that point ? What about the others?

 

Lookout!! There's a massive spinning prop just feet behind you!

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I sailed on a Shipman 72 that had emergency vang release foot buttons, made a flying leap for those once or twice. Nice way to dump some power in an emergency!

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Maybe it's just me, but I've always considered those boards under the bunks and settees to be sacrificial...IOW, they're boat salvage materials. Port blown out? Screw this piece of marine ply over it.

 

If it were me, my prime directive (thank you Mr. Spock) would be to 1) get the rig off of the boat, then 2) keep the water out, at all costs, 3) get the crew settled and a recovery plan underway. I might issue a pan pan at that point.

 

I can't believe, that CB, with all of his acclaimed experience would do anything different. If you sail, you save the boat, where the fuck else are you going to go?

 

What this massively edited narrative tells me is that the backstory is where the decisions were made. The owner had to have pulled the trigger, and given the alleged debris field, I would wonder if this unsinkable piece of disruptive technology were scuttled.

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The focus on water coming into the saloon shouldn't be as big an issue. It's when it gets down the companionway and into the hulls that you have a sinking issue.

 

The electronics/electrics failure should be installed in any pilothouse with some thoughts of weatherproofing and even then it is really only the radio battery, starter battery and engine panels that need the most attention for weatherproofing.

 

Cold food, hand steering, manual winches and hand held GPS are the worst hardships, otherwise.

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Maybe it's just me, but I've always considered those boards under the bunks and settees to be sacrificial...IOW, they're boat salvage materials. Port blown out? Screw this piece of marine ply over it.

 

If it were me, my prime directive (thank you Mr. Spock) would be to 1) get the rig off of the boat, then 2) keep the water out, at all costs, 3) get the crew settled and a recovery plan underway. I might issue a pan pan at that point.

 

I can't believe, that CB, with all of his acclaimed experience would do anything different. If you sail, you save the boat, where the fuck else are you going to go?

 

What this massively edited narrative tells me is that the backstory is where the decisions were made. The owner had to have pulled the trigger, and given the alleged debris field, I would wonder if this unsinkable piece of disruptive technology were scuttled.

Full agreement on all points.

 

OK; not so sure about the scuttling, but it is possible.

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Cold food, hand steering, manual winches and hand held GPS are the worst hardships, otherwise.

 

I wonder what is the back up steering on a GB55?

 

Where do you put that emergency tiller? if you even have one on your world circum-disrupto-navi-condomaran.

 

Look I think they look as cool as hell, I just wonder if we sort of forgot some of the real world back up processes that you need on boats out in the ocean.

 

6m plus waves? strong wind? what are the chances of that? in the ocean of all places....

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From the pictures posted, it looks like the big red button can't be reached from the helm because of the huge display consoles.

 


Me, myself I…. thinks that Keb’ should have the last word on this….

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It2QOSUeQVk

 

I tried to resist the urge to out myself, but I think the aptly titled "Don't Suppose" by Erasure is much more appropriate:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYZnz2L3-vA

 

"Dream maker, heart-breaker, you would take everything away..."

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You can't scuttle an unsinkable boat. It's either unsinkable or it isn't.

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