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DFL1010

End of Paralympic sailing?

66 posts in this topic

The one thing the IFDS should do is get a class for tetraplegics using sip and puff systems. AFAIAA, there are very few sports for that level of disability.

 

140408073831-hilary-lister-quadriplegic-

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If a few Star class supporters could get them back in, then surely the millions of us who support Paralympic sailing will be heard?

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“The Board’s final decision was not an easy one and, after much debate, we decided not to include two sports – football 7-a-side and sailing – from the Tokyo 2020 programme for the same reason. Both did not fulfil the IPC Handbook’s minimum criteria for worldwide reach.”

The IPC Handbook states only team sports widely and regularly practised in a minimum of 24 countries and three IPC regions will be considered for inclusion in the Paralympic Games and for individual sports a minimum of 32 countries in three IPC regions.

 

Source: http://www.paralympic.org/news/ipc-announces-final-tokyo-2020-paralympic-sports-programme

According to the IFDS (http://www.sailing.org/sailors/disabled/members/rnas/index.php) there are 39 recognized national authorities spread over 6 regions.

 

Sooo...what's missing?

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If a few Star class supporters could get them back in, then surely the millions of us who support Paralympic sailing will be heard?

Star class has not had it's Olympic status reinstated

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Guys, sailing is an elitist sport.

Even more so in the Paralympics.

Since I have been among the ranks of the Disabled and attending regattas on an off, one thing is common.

It is the same people year after year. There are a few new faces but not enough new people to make an impact. When this problem is addressed the sport will grow Sailing has to be fun or it will die.

 

From the Story:

"The IPC Handbook states only team sports widely and regularly practised in a minimum of 24 countries and three IPC regions will be considered for inclusion in the Paralympic Games and for individual sports a minimum of 32 countries in three IPC regions."

 

Olympic Sailing is a different story. College level sailing, around the world, gives a steady supply of new faces and keeps the sport fresh.

When Gary Jobson was USS President, I tried to talk to him about getting more areas involved. I asked him to make a stop in his West Coast swing for a lunch chat. He handed me off to the Disabled person on the Board and everything fell silent. The same thing happened when I tried to talk with the new President.

 

  • Paralympic sailing has been stagnant for the last 3 games (12 years). It has become more expensive and out of reach of the disabled person(s) who wish to sail. It is the same people year after year.
  • The British sueing IFDS and bankrupting the organization forcing it to be swallowed by ISAF did not help I am sure.
  • The 2.4mR Class, ISAF and IFDS spending over 10 years fucking with their One Design sub-class for the Para games did not help either. (I'll probably get blamed for that)
  • IFDS Classifiers allowing the Barely Disabled to get rated and compete I am sure was looked at also. IMHO
  • Too many Damn'd dumb rules dumbing down the competition to the level of the Very Severely Disabled Sailor. Instead they should allow the VSDS to use electronic devices the raise themselves up to a higher level of competition required. Yes they have rules against electronic assist devices, because sailing is a pure sport. What a Fucking Joke.
  • Too many Able people telling the disabled what to do at the administrative level.
  • Most of all it is the lack of participation by new countries and new people. Sailing is an Elitist sport.

 

I think this might be a huge shot in the arm for disabled sailing. US Sailing will finally have to wake up and understand that at the Elite level the Community cannot afford to support these Elite teams without regional solutions. US Sailing and US Colleges/Universities must get involved, especially out West where waterfront access and coaching is tightly controlled by local government/corporations and Private Clubs (all are Cliques). Sailing has to be fun or it will die.

 

Recently I had an email exchange with several Paralympic Coaches and IFDS Officers about the SKUD 18 Class IFDS Rule 6.2(a) below

 

6.2 In the Paralympic two-person keelboat event where the SKUD18 is the designated
equipment:
(a) At least one crewmember shall be female, and at least one crew member shall meet
the classification criteria for TPA. These two requirements may be met by the same
person.

 

In the past the rules unspoken intent was to for it to be a mixed team M/F. This year in Miami the US Fielded a team with 2 women. While legal by the rules wording, I felt it was a direct attempt to EXCLUDE men. After some legal advice from 2 different attorneys, I found out that it is ok for the Disabled to Exclude or ban other Disabled as long as it is the Disabled doing it. My argument was that if 2 people had to sit inline (fore and aft) and not hike, how could 2 guys dominate if physical strength was removed from the equation, unless of course the 2 guys were just better sailors. Also, there were probably more able people involved in the rule writing than disabled. Basically the Rule dumbed down the class and has kept it from growing.

 

In my last email response to the group, the last sentence stated.

"Which begs me to ask, If the IFDS Rule 6.2(a) has increased participation by women, why were there only 8 SKUD 18 in Miami. If this is all the International Class can muster, if I were you guys, I would worry about what the IPC is thinking."

 

I sent that email 4 hours prior to the IPC Announcement without knowing that the IPC was even looking at Paralympic Sailing as a viable sport yet

 

I stopped pursuing Paralympic sailing because it became too expensive and not much fun. I saw the demise of Paralympic Sailing coming many Quadrennium ago when US Sailing refused to help build the sport at the elite level (it's the Communities job they say) and seeing the ridiculous level of financial support the British give their sailors raising them to the level of Professional Sailors. Once a Disabled (or barely disabled) Brit attain that level it is impossible to knock them out and have new people. Even the Canadians give their disabled sailors a yearly stipend that is greater than most people earn in a year. JFC, it's just a bunch of disabled people that want to have fun. Sailing has to be fun or it will die.

 

This may be the best thing that has happened to disabled sailing. Local and Regional Regattas like the Chicago YC NACC will become more popular again, I hope, instead of the ISAF/IFDS Level events. If it ain't happening locally, it will die internationally, which is exactly what has happened to Paralympic Disabled Sailing. Disabled Sailors reach a certain level and stop going to the FUN Events and thus stop the learning curve of new people. It is the responsibility of the Elite Level Sailors to attend, encourage and pass on knowledge to the new sailors or there will be no new sailors. Sailing has to be fun or it will die.

 

 

But on a bright note, there will be more funding for the Olympic Teams now. :)

 

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Guys, sailing is an elitist sport.

Even more so in the Paralympics.

Since I have been among the ranks of the Disabled and attending regattas on an off, one thing is common.

It is the same people year after year. There are a few new faces but not enough new people to make an impact. When this problem is addressed the sport will grow Sailing has to be fun or it will die.

 

From the Story:

"The IPC Handbook states only team sports widely and regularly practised in a minimum of 24 countries and three IPC regions will be considered for inclusion in the Paralympic Games and for individual sports a minimum of 32 countries in three IPC regions."

 

Olympic Sailing is a different story. College level sailing, around the world, gives a steady supply of new faces and keeps the sport fresh.

When Gary Jobson was USS President, I tried to talk to him about getting more areas involved. I asked him to make a stop in his West Coast swing for a lunch chat. He handed me off to the Disabled person on the Board and everything fell silent. The same thing happened when I tried to talk with the new President.

 

  • Paralympic sailing has been stagnant for the last 3 games (12 years). It has become more expensive and out of reach of the disabled person(s) who wish to sail. It is the same people year after year.
  • The British sueing IFDS and bankrupting the organization forcing it to be swallowed by ISAF did not help I am sure.
  • The 2.4mR Class, ISAF and IFDS spending over 10 years fucking with their One Design sub-class for the Para games did not help either. (I'll probably get blamed for that)
  • IFDS Classifiers allowing the Barely Disabled to get rated and compete I am sure was looked at also. IMHO
  • Too many Damn'd dumb rules dumbing down the competition to the level of the Very Severely Disabled Sailor. Instead they should allow the VSDS to use electronic devices the raise themselves up to a higher level of competition required. Yes they have rules against electronic assist devices, because sailing is a pure sport. What a Fucking Joke.
  • Too many Able people telling the disabled what to do at the administrative level.
  • Most of all it is the lack of participation by new countries and new people. Sailing is an Elitist sport.

I think this might be a huge shot in the arm for disabled sailing. US Sailing will finally have to wake up and understand that at the Elite level the Community cannot afford to support these Elite teams without regional solutions. US Sailing and US Colleges/Universities must get involved, especially out West where waterfront access and coaching is tightly controlled by local government/corporations and Private Clubs (all are Cliques). Sailing has to be fun or it will die.

 

Recently I had an email exchange with several Paralympic Coaches and IFDS Officers about the SKUD 18 Class IFDS Rule 6.2(a) below

 

6.2 In the Paralympic two-person keelboat event where the SKUD18 is the designated

equipment:

(a) At least one crewmember shall be female, and at least one crew member shall meet

the classification criteria for TPA. These two requirements may be met by the same

person.

In the past the rules unspoken intent was to for it to be a mixed team M/F. This year in Miami the US Fielded a team with 2 women. While legal by the rules wording, I felt it was a direct attempt to EXCLUDE men. After some legal advice from 2 different attorneys, I found out that it is ok for the Disabled to Exclude or ban other Disabled as long as it is the Disabled doing it. My argument was that if 2 people had to sit inline (fore and aft) and not hike, how could 2 guys dominate if physical strength was removed from the equation, unless of course the 2 guys were just better sailors. Also, there were probably more able people involved in the rule writing than disabled. Basically the Rule dumbed down the class and has kept it from growing.

 

In my last email response to the group, the last sentence stated.

"Which begs me to ask, If the IFDS Rule 6.2(a) has increased participation by women, why were there only 8 SKUD 18 in Miami. If this is all the International Class can muster, if I were you guys, I would worry about what the IPC is thinking."

I sent that email 4 hours prior to the IPC Announcement without knowing that the IPC was even looking at Paralympic Sailing as a viable sport yet

 

I stopped pursuing Paralympic sailing because it became too expensive and not much fun. I saw the demise of Paralympic Sailing coming many Quadrennium ago when US Sailing refused to help build the sport at the elite level (it's the Communities job they say) and seeing the ridiculous level of financial support the British give their sailors raising them to the level of Professional Sailors. Once a Disabled (or barely disabled) Brit attain that level it is impossible to knock them out and have new people. Even the Canadians give their disabled sailors a yearly stipend that is greater than most people earn in a year. JFC, it's just a bunch of disabled people that want to have fun. Sailing has to be fun or it will die.

 

This may be the best thing that has happened to disabled sailing. Local and Regional Regattas like the Chicago YC NACC will become more popular again, I hope, instead of the ISAF/IFDS Level events. If it ain't happening locally, it will die internationally, which is exactly what has happened to Paralympic Disabled Sailing. Disabled Sailors reach a certain level and stop going to the FUN Events and thus stop the learning curve of new people. It is the responsibility of the Elite Level Sailors to attend, encourage and pass on knowledge to the new sailors or there will be no new sailors. Sailing has to be fun or it will die.

 

 

But on a bright note, there will be more funding for the Olympic Teams now. :)

Many of your complaints apply to sailing competition in general. So I don't think that Paralympic Sailing is being singled out as much as it is a case of ISAF and USS just being totally fucking clueless and self-serving.

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Many of your complaints apply to sailing competition in general. So I don't think that Paralympic Sailing is being singled out as much as it is a case of ISAF and USS just being totally fucking clueless and self-serving.

 

The key point you missed is that the Able people control the Sport of Disabled Sailing.

Why? Because they cannot make it anywhere else is my guess.

Also many areas have programs for kids to raise up but do not have programs for the disabled who want to sail and get better. Unless of course you are a Clique member that has a disabled child or they get hurt. There is also High School and College sailing for the able to feed the system. US Sailing has been a complete failure for the disabled in the USA.

 

It all started (Internationally) downhill when Linda (an able person) became the IFDS President and the Feminization of International Disabled Sailing started many years ago.

Why are able people allowed to hold office in the International Sport of Disabled Sailing? It's as bad as the Whites running Black dominated South Africa of the past. Just a fucked up pile of shit.

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Dawg Gonit - You, like many others think a one size fits all solution is how sailing works.

 

Let's be clear, the Olympics/Paralympics/High End competition is about money. This won't change, it isn't broken and as a result it can't be fixed. Fun is not the mantra, cut throat winner take all is the mantra.

 

Let's talk about something else. Fun competitive sailing. Where things are more relaxed, where you're more apt to laugh at something, rather than get angry and protest. Last year I had a call from a guy who put an adaptive sailing program together in Green Bay, WI. We knocked some ideas around and then started to list the adaptive sailing programs around Lake Michigan. He knew of some I didn't know and vice versa. Before we knew it we were up to 12 programs and in the past month we just learned of a 13th. Our pond is about 300 miles long and about 90 miles wide at the widest point.

 

Looking at these adaptive programs, there is an underlying tone of racing but they all realize that even moving the teams around to events is a big challenge of its own, and at this time, they all wish to do their own things in their own towns.

 

We brought them together for a meeting, and it was one of the best meetings I have ever been to. Each described their own challenges and at least one other program had already dealt with the issue and offered advice. No doubt it is needed to bring the various programs together and learn and share with one another.

 

In the last program that we learned of, it seems like it was a top secret organization, but they got Tiara Yachts to design a boat for disabled sailing, Great Lakes Boat Building School to build it, with sip and puff system, or switch to a joystick system, or standard sailing system. First one was launched in 2014.

 

http://glbbs.org/boats/cm20

http://www.boynecityyachtclub.com/boatproject.html

 

You can;t have the fun that you and I think of, AND hardcore racing. They just are different animals and we all need to realize it.

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Dawg Gonit - You, like many others think a one size fits all solution is how sailing works.

 

Let's be clear, the Olympics/Paralympics/High End competition is about money. This won't change, it isn't broken and as a result it can't be fixed. Fun is not the mantra, cut throat winner take all is the mantra.

 

Let's talk about something else. Fun competitive sailing. Where things are more relaxed, where you're more apt to laugh at something, rather than get angry and protest. Last year I had a call from a guy who put an adaptive sailing program together in Green Bay, WI. We knocked some ideas around and then started to list the adaptive sailing programs around Lake Michigan. He knew of some I didn't know and vice versa. Before we knew it we were up to 12 programs and in the past month we just learned of a 13th. Our pond is about 300 miles long and about 90 miles wide at the widest point.

 

Looking at these adaptive programs, there is an underlying tone of racing but they all realize that even moving the teams around to events is a big challenge of its own, and at this time, they all wish to do their own things in their own towns.

 

We brought them together for a meeting, and it was one of the best meetings I have ever been to. Each described their own challenges and at least one other program had already dealt with the issue and offered advice. No doubt it is needed to bring the various programs together and learn and share with one another.

 

In the last program that we learned of, it seems like it was a top secret organization, but they got Tiara Yachts to design a boat for disabled sailing, Great Lakes Boat Building School to build it, with sip and puff system, or switch to a joystick system, or standard sailing system. First one was launched in 2014.

 

http://glbbs.org/boats/cm20

http://www.boynecityyachtclub.com/boatproject.html

 

You can;t have the fun that you and I think of, AND hardcore racing. They just are different animals and we all need to realize it.

It's funny you think I think a one size fits all.

 

There are already too many boats built for disabled sailing. Designing a boat specifically for disabled sailing has been done already and it isolates the disabled because no able person wants to sail in that class. The 2.4mR in the US is seen as a boat for the disabled but you get an able person in on and they crack a smile like a kid in a go cart. The Martin 16 was a great boat designed by Canadian Donny Martin of the Martin 242 fame. It was on track to be in the paralympics, and was in use worldwide. But thanks to an Aussie dog and pony show the overpriced, not in production at the time, not sailed anywhere at the time SKUD 18 was chosen. There were only 8 Skud in Miami. This after over 12 years on the international stage. Can you say overpriced FAILURE.

 

I can take a Capri 16.5 keel model and fit it for disabled sailing with very little work. Fitting for a quadriplegic is always more work.

Using a Strahle Seat set forward, sip and puff and you have a great little inexpensive keel boat that is already in use around the US and I am sure it is international.

 

Hopefully I will be working with the Newest University in California, CSUCI, in my back yard to create the First Collegiate Disabled Sailing program in the US. They do have a Capri 16.5 keel model in their program now. I would love to get a Scholarship set up, but now it will probably just a community program to teach sailing.

 

As for fun sailing, why do you think I bailed on the Paralympic path? I get 10 times the fun and spend 10 times less beating up on the able sailors in my boat locally.

 

Like I said, I hope the RNA's take a hard look at the restrictions they have placed on disabled sailors at the Paralympic level.

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Sailing is out, badminton and taekwondo are in as Japan gets to select the sports.

 

There is still one sport not selected for 2020, it probably will come down to which sports offers the biggest incentives for inclusion $$$$

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I find it interesting that when disabled sailing went from a sport to something that someone could use to earn a living, it changed. Before Expo 86, when Margaret Thatcher gave one of the Sunbirds to Sam Sullivan, disabled sailing seemed to be taking people from the assisted living facility out on a keelboat and letting them take the helm to the limit of their ability. The first "sip and puff" units came from this era. A few competitive disabled sailors used the first 2.4 M boats. There were even a couple of the "Olson" mini-meter boats on our lake that got kicked out of the one design process and sit in a barn. Their sailors never continued competitively.

 

Then came the creation of a foundation. This required mainly abled staff. Which then required big bucks to support it. Which required more staff. At the selection trials for the SCUD, there was John Twoomy, a disabled sailor, but then a bunch of doctors, coaches and other specialists who looked at how sailing fit within their reasons for being. Then there was Paul Henderson's pronouncement that skiffs were the future of Olympic sailing. No wonder sailing didn't stand a chance.

 

The Disabled Sailing Association at Jericho in Vancouver runs a successful and needed program. The effect, particularly on the most disabled, is very positive and creates the "feel good" that brings about the donations to pay the abled staff. This circle has not extended itself to competitive sailing and in some ways I question whether it should, past such things as the Mobility Cup.

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I find it interesting that when disabled sailing went from a sport to something that someone could use to earn a living, it changed. Before Expo 86, when Margaret Thatcher gave one of the Sunbirds to Sam Sullivan, disabled sailing seemed to be taking people from the assisted living facility out on a keelboat and letting them take the helm to the limit of their ability. The first "sip and puff" units came from this era. A few competitive disabled sailors used the first 2.4 M boats. There were even a couple of the "Olson" mini-meter boats on our lake that got kicked out of the one design process and sit in a barn. Their sailors never continued competitively.

 

Then came the creation of a foundation. This required mainly abled staff. Which then required big bucks to support it. Which required more staff. At the selection trials for the SCUD, there was John Twoomy, a disabled sailor, but then a bunch of doctors, coaches and other specialists who looked at how sailing fit within their reasons for being. Then there was Paul Henderson's pronouncement that skiffs were the future of Olympic sailing. No wonder sailing didn't stand a chance.

 

The Disabled Sailing Association at Jericho in Vancouver runs a successful and needed program. The effect, particularly on the most disabled, is very positive and creates the "feel good" that brings about the donations to pay the abled staff. This circle has not extended itself to competitive sailing and in some ways I question whether it should, past such things as the Mobility Cup.

 

 

Actually, you are exactly wrong to make Henderson the bad guy in this equation. There as a movement to get rid of disabled sailing when he was still President of ISAF. At the same time, Jacque Rogge, a Finn sailor, was President of the IOC. Rogge wanted the Star out of the Olympics. Henderson fought for the Star for a bunch of reasons, one of them was that large people need something to sail, and the whole traditional aspect of it. But maybe even more importantly, he knew that if the Star went away, so too would the facility to handle all keel boats go away at an Olympic venue. So he said that to Rogge, if you make me pull the Star, then I'm going to blame you for making paralympic sailing vulnerable. Henderson was able to keep the Star in, but others didn't care so much.

 

All that said, it might be the best thing ever that a class or event is tossed out of the Olympics/Paralympics.

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I find it interesting that when disabled sailing went from a sport to something that someone could use to earn a living, it changed. Before Expo 86, when Margaret Thatcher gave one of the Sunbirds to Sam Sullivan, disabled sailing seemed to be taking people from the assisted living facility out on a keelboat and letting them take the helm to the limit of their ability. The first "sip and puff" units came from this era. A few competitive disabled sailors used the first 2.4 M boats. There were even a couple of the "Olson" mini-meter boats on our lake that got kicked out of the one design process and sit in a barn. Their sailors never continued competitively.

 

Then came the creation of a foundation. This required mainly abled staff. Which then required big bucks to support it. Which required more staff. At the selection trials for the SCUD, there was John Twoomy, a disabled sailor, but then a bunch of doctors, coaches and other specialists who looked at how sailing fit within their reasons for being. Then there was Paul Henderson's pronouncement that skiffs were the future of Olympic sailing. No wonder sailing didn't stand a chance.

 

The Disabled Sailing Association at Jericho in Vancouver runs a successful and needed program. The effect, particularly on the most disabled, is very positive and creates the "feel good" that brings about the donations to pay the abled staff. This circle has not extended itself to competitive sailing and in some ways I question whether it should, past such things as the Mobility Cup.

 

 

Actually, you are exactly wrong to make Henderson the bad guy in this equation. There as a movement to get rid of disabled sailing when he was still President of ISAF. At the same time, Jacque Rogge, a Finn sailor, was President of the IOC. Rogge wanted the Star out of the Olympics. Henderson fought for the Star for a bunch of reasons, one of them was that large people need something to sail, and the whole traditional aspect of it. But maybe even more importantly, he knew that if the Star went away, so too would the facility to handle all keel boats go away at an Olympic venue. So he said that to Rogge, if you make me pull the Star, then I'm going to blame you for making paralympic sailing vulnerable. Henderson was able to keep the Star in, but others didn't care so much.

 

All that said, it might be the best thing ever that a class or event is tossed out of the Olympics/Paralympics.

I hope I am not presenting Mr. Henderson in a bad light here. He was enthusiastic about the presence of skiffs in the Olympics in order to increase the athleticism and spectacle of the racing. Both good aims. He did fight for a keelboat in the Olympics, in this case the Star because it was entrenched. The Laser for many years rejected inclusion in the Olympics because it feared the effect it would have on grass roots sailing. The pressing for the use of a "ballasted skiff" came instead from another group. They used Mr. Henderson's views on athleticism of the boats as a definitive specification.

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I find it interesting that when disabled sailing went from a sport to something that someone could use to earn a living, it changed. Before Expo 86, when Margaret Thatcher gave one of the Sunbirds to Sam Sullivan, disabled sailing seemed to be taking people from the assisted living facility out on a keelboat and letting them take the helm to the limit of their ability. The first "sip and puff" units came from this era. A few competitive disabled sailors used the first 2.4 M boats. There were even a couple of the "Olson" mini-meter boats on our lake that got kicked out of the one design process and sit in a barn. Their sailors never continued competitively.

 

Then came the creation of a foundation. This required mainly abled staff. Which then required big bucks to support it. Which required more staff. At the selection trials for the SCUD, there was John Twoomy, a disabled sailor, but then a bunch of doctors, coaches and other specialists who looked at how sailing fit within their reasons for being. Then there was Paul Henderson's pronouncement that skiffs were the future of Olympic sailing. No wonder sailing didn't stand a chance.

 

The Disabled Sailing Association at Jericho in Vancouver runs a successful and needed program. The effect, particularly on the most disabled, is very positive and creates the "feel good" that brings about the donations to pay the abled staff. This circle has not extended itself to competitive sailing and in some ways I question whether it should, past such things as the Mobility Cup.

 

 

Actually, you are exactly wrong to make Henderson the bad guy in this equation. There as a movement to get rid of disabled sailing when he was still President of ISAF. At the same time, Jacque Rogge, a Finn sailor, was President of the IOC. Rogge wanted the Star out of the Olympics. Henderson fought for the Star for a bunch of reasons, one of them was that large people need something to sail, and the whole traditional aspect of it. But maybe even more importantly, he knew that if the Star went away, so too would the facility to handle all keel boats go away at an Olympic venue. So he said that to Rogge, if you make me pull the Star, then I'm going to blame you for making paralympic sailing vulnerable. Henderson was able to keep the Star in, but others didn't care so much.

 

All that said, it might be the best thing ever that a class or event is tossed out of the Olympics/Paralympics.

 

Well said both of you, for a couple of able sailors :P. I enjoy the local events far more than the Paralympic Level ones. The NACC at Chicago is so much fun and great sailing. If it ain't fun don't do it, which is why numbers have fallen at the paralympic level.

 

But, I really hope this is seen as an opportunity for Disabled Sailing.

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Where is ISAF? Do they even care?

ISAF just got done absorbing IFDS because the British filed a bogus lawsuit (they got caught cheating) and it bankrupted IFDS.

 

Here is a 3 page letter from the International Paralympic Committee laying out the timeline for the events leading up to the final decision. I lifted them from a FB page that appears too be a British creation where they only let certain people post. For some reason I am not able to post. I guess they do not like me because I am blaming the RNA's more than IFDS.

 

The last paragraph gives hope as I have been saying.

 

ipc_page1.png

 

ipc_page2.png

 

ipc_page3.png

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Where is ISAF? Do they even care?

ISAF just got done absorbing IFDS because the British filed a bogus lawsuit (they got caught cheating) and it bankrupted IFDS.

 

Here is a 3 page letter from the International Paralympic Committee laying out the timeline for the events leading up to the final decision. I lifted them from a FB page that appears too be a British creation where they only let certain people post. For some reason I am not able to post. I guess they do not like me because I am blaming the RNA's more than IFDS.

 

The last paragraph gives hope as I have been saying.

 

attachicon.gifipc_page1.png

 

attachicon.gifipc_page2.png

 

attachicon.gifipc_page3.png

 

 

ISAF is scouting for a New CEO

 

Roll in there and set em straight

 

Nail the Job and post yer contact info here and EVERYONE will Help you do your NEW JOB !!

 

Comon DAWG "YOU" Can Do Everything you say They Should Do By Being Their LEADER !!!!!!!

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Sod off knocking the British, specially when you read who got that answer.

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So what's to stop disabled sailors from organizing a regatta at the same Odaiba marina to be used for the Olympics, before or after the Olympics? The Japanese Association for Disabled Sailing and the city of Tokyo would be likely to get behind that. It's going to be a very nice facility, Odaiba is not your father's Tokyo.

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The anonymous piece We Suck published earlier this week contained a little tidbit you might have glossed over; the end of Paralympic sailing.

On 31 January, the International Paralympic Committee announced that Sailing got the boot from the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. The RYA immediately posted a statement decrying the decision and announcing their willingness to help try to reverse it. US Sailing published President Tom Hubbell's willingness to do the same. Yet the reasons behind this big move remained largely secret - until ISAF published their own response nearly a week after the fact.

For those who delight in ISAF's lunacy (and it's been getting almost laughably dysfunctional lately), have a look at the ISAF statement. ISAF takes over the IFDS in November, and two months later, the IPC gives sailing the ease. Coincidence, or yet another example of ISAF's 'reverse midas touch'? You know how it works: Everything they touch turns to shit!

 

The ISAF Disabled Sailing Committee (IFDS) is profoundly disappointed by the decision of the International Paralympic Committee (IPC) to exclude sailing from the Tokyo 2020 Paralympic Games.
IFDS responded in a timely and comprehensive manner to queries from IPC, with details of sailors that participate regularly in international regattas or national championships, on Paralympic boats.


IFDS ensures an extensive quadrennial program of international competitions replicating the Olympic Program organized by the International Sailing Federation (ISAF), including ISAF Sailing World Cup. IFDS sanctions and organizes yearly Combined World Championships in the Paralympic classes.

Development has resulted in the regular addition of new countries to competitive sailing. The process of merging with ISAF (with a membership of 139 Member National Authorities) was completed in November of 2014, with the main aim of opening a whole new field for the development of disabled sailing. During the period of pre-merging, ISAF always respected the independence of IFDS decisions. Through ISAF's development programmes, worldwide participation initiatives and event structure, the opportunities for disabled sailing are better than ever before.

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The anonymous piece We Suck published earlier this week contained a little tidbit you might have glossed over; the end of Paralympic sailing.

On 31 January, the International Paralympic Committee announced that Sailing got the boot from the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. The RYA immediately posted a statement decrying the decision and announcing their willingness to help try to reverse it. US Sailing published President Tom Hubbell's willingness to do the same. Yet the reasons behind this big move remained largely secret - until ISAF published their own response nearly a week after the fact.

For those who delight in ISAF's lunacy (and it's been getting almost laughably dysfunctional lately), have a look at the ISAF statement. ISAF takes over the IFDS in November, and two months later, the IPC gives sailing the ease. Coincidence, or yet another example of ISAF's 'reverse midas touch'? You know how it works: Everything they touch turns to shit!

 
The ISAF Disabled Sailing Committee (IFDS) is profoundly disappointed by the decision of the International Paralympic Committee (IPC) to exclude sailing from the Tokyo 2020 Paralympic Games.
IFDS responded in a timely and comprehensive manner to queries from IPC, with details of sailors that participate regularly in international regattas or national championships, on Paralympic boats.

 

IFDS ensures an extensive quadrennial program of international competitions replicating the Olympic Program organized by the International Sailing Federation (ISAF), including ISAF Sailing World Cup. IFDS sanctions and organizes yearly Combined World Championships in the Paralympic classes.

Development has resulted in the regular addition of new countries to competitive sailing. The process of merging with ISAF (with a membership of 139 Member National Authorities) was completed in November of 2014, with the main aim of opening a whole new field for the development of disabled sailing. During the period of pre-merging, ISAF always respected the independence of IFDS decisions. Through ISAF's development programmes, worldwide participation initiatives and event structure, the opportunities for disabled sailing are better than ever before.

 

yeah, i use to refer to it as "sadim touch" ;)

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So what's to stop disabled sailors from organizing a regatta at the same Odaiba marina to be used for the Olympics, before or after the Olympics? The Japanese Association for Disabled Sailing and the city of Tokyo would be likely to get behind that. It's going to be a very nice facility, Odaiba is not your father's Tokyo.

 

The IFDS worlds will become the goal for many top level disabled sailors. Hopefully they will try to place controls on the amount of money spent on the RNA Teams. It is really tough for new people to get in once you make it on a developed team that pays it's sailors an above average wage to do nothing but sail.

 

For those who delight in ISAF's lunacy (and it's been getting almost laughably dysfunctional lately), have a look at the ISAF statement. ISAF takes over the IFDS in November, and two months later, the IPC gives sailing the ease. Coincidence, or yet another example of ISAF's 'reverse midas touch'? You know how it works: Everything they touch turns to shit!

ISAF had nothing to do with Sailing being given the boot from the Paralympics.

It is the poor management from IFDS and some of the Developed Countries along with their greed for gold at any cost.

It sure cost them a lot now. Time for many able people to get real jobs.

 

The issue is most countries feel that paralympic sailing is a community based program. Not one University or College in the US has an advanced Sailing Program that sails side by side with their traditional Sailing Program. Then you have a few countries that have Professionalized the sport virtually locking out new people in those countries. Paralympic sailing in many Countries is a lifestyle for those at the top because they don't have to have real jobs.

 

In the Olympics typically you compete for a while and move on to the rest of your life and become a contributor to Society.

The Olympics have Colleges and Universities to feed new people into sailing and the games.

 

Paralympic Sailing has Community Programs with Ambulances, Diseases and birth defects as the feeder.

In paralympic sailing you can do it for your whole life because the physicalness of the boats have been removed.

It's the same people over and over with very few new faces and this is what the IPC has said in its statement. This is not the fault of ISAF, it is IFDS.

Maybe ISAF can help fix it.

 

I hope Colleges and Universities get on board to help train and develop new sailors along side their traditional programs.

It's called "Raising the Bar"

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ISAF had nothing to do with sailing being given the boot from the Paralympics.

 

It is the poor management from IFDS and some of the developed countries along with their greed for Gold at any cost.

It sure cost them a lot now. Time for many able people to get real jobs.

 

The issue is most countries feel that Paralympic sailing is a community based program. Not one university or college in the US has an advanced sailing program that sails side by side with their traditional sailing program. Then you have a few countries that have professionalized the sport virtually locking out new people in those countries. Paralympic sailing in many countries is a lifestyle for those at the top because they don't have to have real jobs.

 

In the Olympics typically you compete for a while and move on to the rest of your life and become a contributor to society.

The Olympics have colleges and universities to feed new people into sailing and the games.

 

Paralympic Sailing has community programs with ambulances, diseases and birth defects as the feeder.

In Paralympic sailing you can do it for your whole life because the physicalness of the boats have been removed.

It's the same people over and over with very few new faces and this is what the IPC has said in its statement. This is not the fault of ISAF, it is IFDS.

Maybe ISAF can help fix it.

 

I hope colleges and universities get on board to help train and develop new sailors along side their traditional programs.

It's called "raising the bar"

 

Fixed it for you

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So what's to stop disabled sailors from organizing a regatta at the same Odaiba marina to be used for the Olympics, before or after the Olympics? The Japanese Association for Disabled Sailing and the city of Tokyo would be likely to get behind that. It's going to be a very nice facility, Odaiba is not your father's Tokyo.

Absolutely nothing.

 

If IFDS had half a brain they would be organizing the IFDS Worlds at the new Disabled Access Venue built in Japan right after the Olympics.

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I was in Japan last November, and I think they have come a long way in terms of disabled access compared to when I lived there in the nineties. In any case, the Olympic Marina is going to very nice and the government of Tokyo is serious about every venue being relevant long after the Olympics.

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This is simple. ISAF traded Paralympic sailing in order to save medals in olympic sailing. Follow the money

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This is simple. ISAF traded Paralympic sailing in order to save medals in olympic sailing. Follow the money

 

simple indeed!! See the Golden Rule below in sigline! :lol::o

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This is simple. ISAF traded Paralympic sailing in order to save medals in olympic sailing. Follow the money

 

Care to provide one shred of evidence that is so?

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Fixed it for you

Thanks; new documents coming soon.

The plot thickens.

 

 

I think you still are not aware of what I changed. Do not capitalize words except at the beginning of sentences or proper names.

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International Paralympic Committee to International Federation Disabled Sailing

 

ifds_page1.jpg

 

ifds_page2.jpg

 

ifds_page3.jpg

 

ifds_page4.jpg

 

ifds_page5.jpg

 

The General section sums it up but the Numbers for participation on page 2 are telling.
2012 was a Paralympic year. The IPS say they used the IFDS Worlds to look at the numbers.

Why do the numbers slowly plummet toward the year of the games. Do people just give up? Is the cost too much? Is it just a hopeless venture? Maybe the other countries spend their money on more visible sports that their country identifies with?

 

The Financials Section tells the cost of the Lawsuit brought by the British against IFDS. The British were caught cheating and sued IFDS because they were penalized for cheating. It just goes to show, even in Britain you can sue for anything you want and drive someone in to bankruptcy.

 

It also appears that IFDS does not have a database where they collect and maintain data. I wonder if anyone at IFDS/ISAF or US Sailing knows what a "Relational Database" is. Do any of these organizations compile data for potential sponsors and donors? I would think this is very important. Presenting data on events building up to and including Paralympic attendance, which countries and how much countries spend to fund teams would be very important for new Countries/Teams to access if the value can be recovered through sponsors and donors or if the Country can even afford to compete. I know many people are disgusted with the funding level of the British and their win at all costs (even cheating) myopic mentality. Though they are not then only one who throw money around. I know many of the sailors who live the lifestyle and I am on the outside looking in. So it's no wonder they are screaming like kids whose mommy took their candy away. I still sail but spend my money at home having fun with friends.

 

The final scorecard tells it all. Only one section is acceptable Anti Doping (in the green). Which is weird because I know almost all Paralympic sailors have to take a plethora of drugs for their injuries, diseases and birth defects.

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Ok, I know almost nobody cares but I have to make this last post because ...................well because.

 

I'm not sure how many know that the biggest cry babies over Sailing being Removed from the Paralympics are those that have coaches, support personal and Teams on the payroll. Facebook is abound with sites created by the British and there are many whinny Americans and Euros that get paychecks from their Sailing MNA (member National Authority). they used to be called RNA (ruling National Authority) but I guess Ruling was too harsh.

 

Anyway, my point here is that in the 2012 Paralympics not one British or Euro Citizen bought a ticket to watch the Sailing Event at the Paralympics. NOT ONE BRIT.

Not one ticket was sold. Pretty sad for a Nation that says they love sailing.

 

But the real reason no cares about sailing in the paralympics is this Video.

 

 

If the Paralympics had a Foiling 2/3 person Weta, instead of the 4knt shit box called the 2.4mR or the restrictive SKUD, that might be exciting.

 

 

Having said that, I have invited too many times my disabled sailing friends to come out to Ivanpah for some real sailing fun.

Toward the end of March will the NALSA Americas Cup of Land Sailing (open class) and then the Blokart North Americans (one design).

From March 21st to April 2nd I am hoping to be doing somewhere between 20 and 50 knts racing against the guy who shot the video.

I am guessing it will be around 15 to 20 races and I'm sure my arms will be tired.

 

 

Enough said. I am so tired of whinny paralympic cry babies.

 

Time to go sailing....................at any speed.

I almost forgot, the next 2 weekends we have 2 regattas in the Ventura area. Yea, I'll be on my low speed boat.

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Level 4 Paralympic sailor Chris Sharp testing the Weta

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The face book page is a British Fabrication and a total joke. They ban you if you have a differing opinion. Remember, it's the British that Bankrupted IFDS..............I'm sure IFDS blessed their lawsuit.

 

Hopefully Paul Henderson if elected WS President will smack some heads around and actually listen to the truly disabled and ignore the able making $$$ of the disabled. He should also Ignore the top Paralympic Sailors as the all make a living off of disabled sailing.

 

Level 4 Paralympic sailor Chris Sharp testing the Weta

 

Not sure what level 4 means, I'm a T-11 para.

I noticed he is moving his legs? Legs are really needed for sailing. Yes you can manage without but it's always those with 3 or 4 working appendages that seem to be at the top. Occasionally a 2-fer get in there.

I contacted Weta many years back about working on some adaptations for disabled sailors. They wanted nothing to do with it.

I think they are afraid of lawyers. This is a big issue with any manufacturer of boats for the disabled. You will be liable.

If you want adaptations, go spend the money on your own. That is the message.

 

I'd love to see a foiling Weta to make it more stable. I do have real ideas. Anyone wanna start a Go Fund the insane account?

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Not sure what level 4 means, I'm a T-11 para.

I noticed he is moving his legs? Legs are really needed for sailing. Yes you can manage without but it's always those with 3 or 4 working appendages that seem to be at the top. Occasionally a 2-fer get in there.

I contacted Weta many years back about working on some adaptations for disabled sailors. They wanted nothing to do with it.

I think they are afraid of lawyers. This is a big issue with any manufacturer of boats for the disabled. You will be liable.

If you want adaptations, go spend the money on your own. That is the message.

You might have also noticed that he has a bench across the cockpit to make it easier to slide from one side to the other.

 

I think you answered your own question about manufacturers modifying the boat for the disabled. There's a disabled sailing organisation in the UK who has developed a drop-in seat for the Weta and rod steering system.

 

Although the feedback from the Para sailors who have been evaluating the boat to date is that they prefer to sail without the seat.

 

I cannot fathom why you think a foiling boat is more stable than a boat with floats especially after seeing the video and Chris's comments - there's plenty of evidence from all the foiling classes that they can be stable in the right conditions and with the right crew but the learning curve to get there is huge and not what I think the majority of Para sailors would want - which is a boat that's fun but safe to sail and provides close racing (one of the criteria for the boat selection).

 

If you look at Chris Sharp's page on the NZ Para sailing site (Google is your friend) it defines the classifications used by the Para sailing organisers.

 

Para-Sailors are classified with a sport class from 1 to 7, with 7 indicating the least severe and 1 the most severe eligible impairment. The allocation of sport class is carried out by a panel of classifiers who complete a physical assessment with each Para-Sailor.

4

Number = represents a sport class. Para-Athletes may have a single through-shoulder amputation, double above-knee amputation, double below-knee amputation without prostheses, single above-knee and single below-knee amputation without prostheses, or an equivalent activity limitation in sailing caused by the other eligible impairment types.

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Not sure what level 4 means, I'm a T-11 para.

I noticed he is moving his legs? Legs are really needed for sailing. Yes you can manage without but it's always those with 3 or 4 working appendages that seem to be at the top. Occasionally a 2-fer get in there.

I contacted Weta many years back about working on some adaptations for disabled sailors. They wanted nothing to do with it.

I think they are afraid of lawyers. This is a big issue with any manufacturer of boats for the disabled. You will be liable.

If you want adaptations, go spend the money on your own. That is the message.

You might have also noticed that he has a bench across the cockpit to make it easier to slide from one side to the other.

 

I think you answered your own question about manufacturers modifying the boat for the disabled. There's a disabled sailing organisation in the UK who has developed a drop-in seat for the Weta and rod steering system.

 

Although the feedback from the Para sailors who have been evaluating the boat to date is that they prefer to sail without the seat.

 

I cannot fathom why you think a foiling boat is more stable than a boat with floats especially after seeing the video and Chris's comments - there's plenty of evidence from all the foiling classes that they can be stable in the right conditions and with the right crew but the learning curve to get there is huge and not what I think the majority of Para sailors would want - which is a boat that's fun but safe to sail and provides close racing (one of the criteria for the boat selection).

 

If you look at Chris Sharp's page on the NZ Para sailing site (Google is your friend) it defines the classifications used by the Para sailing organisers.

 

Para-Sailors are classified with a sport class from 1 to 7, with 7 indicating the least severe and 1 the most severe eligible impairment. The allocation of sport class is carried out by a panel of classifiers who complete a physical assessment with each Para-Sailor.

4

Number = represents a sport class. Para-Athletes may have a single through-shoulder amputation, double above-knee amputation, double below-knee amputation without prostheses, single above-knee and single below-knee amputation without prostheses, or an equivalent activity limitation in sailing caused by the other eligible impairment types.

 

Yea, I understand the 1 to 7 but you said level 4 without any mention of the International useless classification system.

Pewit, I understand you are from a common wealth of the UK and you still love the Crown.

 

And I love how the UK is spending so much money on disabled sailing after bankrupting the IFDS and folded the org into the now bankrupt ISAF aka World Sailing. Is there something going on here to defraud the British government of tax revenue? or defraud the sailing community world wide?

 

I cannot stand the UK and it's lying bollucks when it comes to disabled sailing. You guys just want to keep spending your National Lottery money and keep the gravy train rolling.

 

Are you guys planning on setting the standard???

I may be almost 59 yrs old but if I could kiss ass as well as dee dmith and get a few $$, helena would be toast (along with dee dee).

 

As for the foiling weta, if you knew anything about apposing forces and control surfaces, you could do amazing things with foils on a multi hull. It only costs $$$$ .

 

The real problem with disabled sailing at the paralympic level is they will not allow electronic controls.

How the hell is a quadriplegic supposed to compete when they cannot pull a line or steer.

 

I say make every one use electronic control systems and lets see how many want to sail.

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I may be FROM the UK but I've lived in Australia since 2007 and have dual citizenship and no I don't "love the crown" - the monarchy makes sense in the UK because of the tourist revenue but makes little sense in Australia. I'm not involved in the disabled sailing organisation in the UK or Australia. Para and Olympic sailors in Australia also have funding issues because we don't have a National Lottery for sports funding here although it is being discussed.

 

Sailing is one of the most expensive Olympic sports and even more so for Para sailing because of the costs of buying the boats and shipping them around the world. That also allows only the best funded sailors from first world countries to take part - hence the sport was dropped from the Paralympics because they couldn't show that it had world participation. They also screwed up the application process but that's another story.

 

Unlike the UK, funding for sport in Australia is only targetted at the Olympics and this skews sailing in favour of elite sailors at the detriment of grass-routes sailing - any good youth sailors are picked up by big clubs with budgets to match and there is little spent on promoting sailing as a sport for everyone to enjoy - despite research showing it's considered the most expensive, most elite, most unwelcoming and time consuming of any sport. Sailability does get some support on a state level but they are also underfunded.

 

I am well aware of opposing forces and control surfaces - ask anyone who sails. And there has been some experimentation done with fixed foils on a Weta in Singapore but my point is that it's another level of complexity, cost (another reason why sailing was dropped) and if a foiling boat digs in it's likely to hurt - especially for sailors who may not be fully able. Being launched at the shroud in a Weta at 16 knots is painful (yes I have) but hitting it at 20+ knots could cause serious damage - hence the development of protective gear for foiling cat sailors. Then there's the drag - a Weta with 3 hulls is slow enough under 10 knots of breeze with all the drag - foiling boats would be even more so. Or are you going to retract the foil and if so how?

 

Electric controls means more cost, more maintenance and less participation, unfortunately.

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I would take you to task on the "electric controls means more cost, more maintenance and less participation, unfortunately". electric controls are the only path to a great number of sailors. We are all disabled to some degree. I can't run the 100 dash in the same time as Usain Bolt. I have a disability in relation to running at that level.

 

I require eyeglasses. This is an adaptive aid to overcome this disability. Some people require other adaptive aids in order to sail.

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I would take you to task on the "electric controls means more cost, more maintenance and less participation, unfortunately". electric controls are the only path to a great number of sailors. We are all disabled to some degree. I can't run the 100 dash in the same time as Usain Bolt. I have a disability in relation to running at that level.

 

I require eyeglasses. This is an adaptive aid to overcome this disability. Some people require other adaptive aids in order to sail.

 

The ISAF regulation that Sailing be a pure sport is bullshit. Paul Henderson better fucking get it right or I'll visit him and straighten his ass out.

 

Sip and Puff should be required for all skippers in the Paralympics.

 

If you want to level the playing field, then level it.

 

One class one rule no BS.

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I'm confused. Paralympic sailing tries hard to develop boats that allow disabled sailor(s) to control and compete on a level playing field amongst each other. Then the qualification to be *disabled* becomes the hot issue. The regs are complex and somehow Dee Smith qualifies (although he ended up a loser).

 

I've raced against disabled sailors in Martin 16s and they kicked my ass. They deserve a venue nationwide, but maybe not an Olympic slot because of the curious qualifications standards. It's such a beautiful venue for severely disabled persons to get out on the water and compete as equals with capable people using the same assistive technologies, essentially how the boat is set up. But it's not an Olympic venue, costly, qualification issues, not the same as true Paralympics venue.

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I'm confused. Paralympic sailing tries hard to develop boats that allow disabled sailor(s) to control and compete on a level playing field amongst each other. Then the qualification to be *disabled* becomes the hot issue. The regs are complex and somehow Dee Smith qualifies (although he ended up a loser).

 

I've raced against disabled sailors in Martin 16s and they kicked my ass. They deserve a venue nationwide, but maybe not an Olympic slot because of the curious qualifications standards. It's such a beautiful venue for severely disabled persons to get out on the water and compete as equals with capable people using the same assistive technologies, essentially how the boat is set up. But it's not an Olympic venue, costly, qualification issues, not the same as true Paralympics venue.

 

Paralympic Sailing does nothing to develop boats. In fact they put on the Dog and Pony show which is how the $40K Aussie SKUD was chosen over the, already established Fleets around the world, Martin 16. If the Martin had been chosen I would have purchased one and we would have had several west coast teams in the run for the US Slot. US Sailing did not care and did no lobbying. The Aussies won and here we are. 11 SKUD teams at the Paralympics. YAWN

 

Dee took 4th in the 2.4mR pretty respectable but the 3rd and 4th place sailors in the 2.4mR class had all 4 working appendages. The first place sailor is missing one had but is also a Professional sailor who does many big events and has sponsorship to get a big Tri. God Bless France.

The Issue is ISAF and World Sailing do not allow electronics for controlling the boat, Steering, sheet or halyard control.

Electronics are seen as un-pure and sailing is a pure sport. make me gag. The most disabled are left out of the Games.

 

Everything about sailing at the paralympic level is about having the least disabled or limited.

Thank god that Aussie Matt Bugg, a paraplegic took second. Though if Dee were not there, the places would have shifted.

Dee really fucked over some of the sailors. He s a total douche. and nobody likes him.

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back to our regular transmission !!!!

 

We all agree about Dee but not every thread has to end up with Dee

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back to our regular transmission !!!!

 

We all agree about Dee but not every thread has to end up with Dee

you miss the point. I only commented on the questions asked.

 

Please move on and ignore the peanut gallery.

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T12 Incomplete Paraplegic Neil Patterson testing the Weta in Melbourne

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I love everything sailing, but if there was a sport that deserved to be eliminated from the Paralympics, it was sailing:

 

1) it's highly elitist, disproportionately favoring rich countries.

 

2) the qualification process is a Deesaster.

 

3) it is highly irresponsible to expose spectators with a weak heart to the thrills and spills of Sonar racing.

 

Let's look at the bright side: there's a 2.4 Meter-racing asshole who will NEVER win an Olympic medal...

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Para World Sailing

Para World Sailing Committee Chairman Betsy Alison presented the Committee's decision on the equipment that will be adopted for Paralympic sailing as the sport aims for reinstatement into the Paralympic Games.

The Para World Sailing Committee completed its equipment evaluation and proposed the 2.4 Norlin OD (Keelboat), Hansa 303 (Dinghy) and WETA (Trimaran). World Sailing will now enter class contractual discussions with the classes.

 

Source:http://www.sailing.org/news/41233.php#.WCjro8nSkoY

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Para World Sailing

 

Para World Sailing Committee Chairman Betsy Alison presented the Committee's decision on the equipment that will be adopted for Paralympic sailing as the sport aims for reinstatement into the Paralympic Games.

 

The Para World Sailing Committee completed its equipment evaluation and proposed the 2.4 Norlin OD (Keelboat), Hansa 303 (Dinghy) and WETA (Trimaran). World Sailing will now enter class contractual discussions with the classes.

 

Source:http://www.sailing.org/news/41233.php#.WCjro8nSkoY

I appreciate that this proposal will reduce cost, but come on, the Hansa 303 as a Paralympic boat?! It was only added to satisfy IPC's requirement that there is a place for severely disabled sailors, after the Weta was added, which needs hiking not to capsize, and one needs both hands to control the boat. The Skud 18 and Sonar sailors are not going to like this. There was an alternative proposal, which offered high performance sailing to sailors of all abilities, at less than a third of the cost of these chosen boats. Hey, don't want to change too much, and make it too easy for poor countries to compete...

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As Paul Henderson said, once keelboats were out of the main event, that was always going to have a big knock on on the Paras. Do the 2.4s tend to be beach launched at top level, or are they still marina boats?

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As Paul Henderson said, once keelboats were out of the main event, that was always going to have a big knock on on the Paras. Do the 2.4s tend to be beach launched at top level, or are they still marina boats?

The keelboats have four main drawbacks compared to dinghies and multi.

- need a marina, or at least a slipway into deep water.

- generally boring to watch.

- a bigger negative effect on the environment (keel / antifouling, etc).

- cost, not just in purchase, but also in shipping to events.

 

So from the point of view of the IOC and IPC it is fully understandable that they wanted to lose the keelboats. Sailors from emerging nations now have a much better chance to compete on an even level.

 

Unfortunately Para Sailing has not reached that point yet, nor will it with this latest equipment proposal. The 2.4m and Hansa cannot be beach launched. The Weta needs crew on the trampoline to not capsize. This thus excludes many types of disabilities.

 

The alternative is available. It is called the WindRider AS Trimaran. One boat With three purposes. A 4-person grassroots boat, at a cost just a bit higher than the Hansa bathtub. And a fully adaptive (allows all levels of disabilities to use it!) high performance one-person and two-person configuration, at a cost significantly less than the Weta or 2.4m. Add the zero maintenance and fact that the manufacturer is offering free boats for all major events, MNA's can expect a cost reduction in equipment purchase and regatta participation of Over 75%!!! But Para World Sailing is not interested. You figure out why...

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As Paul Henderson said, once keelboats were out of the main event, that was always going to have a big knock on on the Paras. Do the 2.4s tend to be beach launched at top level, or are they still marina boats?

 

I read somewhere the 2.4 can be hand launched with lead ballast removed.

post-35406-0-22371500-1479239473_thumb.jpg

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As Paul Henderson said, once keelboats were out of the main event, that was always going to have a big knock on on the Paras. Do the 2.4s tend to be beach launched at top level, or are they still marina boats?

The keelboats have four main drawbacks compared to dinghies and multi.

- need a marina, or at least a slipway into deep water.

- generally boring to watch.

- a bigger negative effect on the environment (keel / antifouling, etc).

- cost, not just in purchase, but also in shipping to events.

 

So from the point of view of the IOC and IPC it is fully understandable that they wanted to lose the keelboats. Sailors from emerging nations now have a much better chance to compete on an even level.

 

Unfortunately Para Sailing has not reached that point yet, nor will it with this latest equipment proposal. The 2.4m and Hansa cannot be beach launched. The Weta needs crew on the trampoline to not capsize. This thus excludes many types of disabilities.

 

The alternative is available. It is called the WindRider AS Trimaran. One boat With three purposes. A 4-person grassroots boat, at a cost just a bit higher than the Hansa bathtub. And a fully adaptive (allows all levels of disabilities to use it!) high performance one-person and two-person configuration, at a cost significantly less than the Weta or 2.4m. Add the zero maintenance and fact that the manufacturer is offering free boats for all major events, MNA's can expect a cost reduction in equipment purchase and regatta participation of Over 75%!!! But Para World Sailing is not interested. You figure out why...

 

 

I am guessing the Hansa was chosen because it is the Access Dinghy 303 and there are fleets world wide. There is a big fleet at BAADS in SF.

At 9k for a rotomolded thermoplastic sailing bathtub it is a bit over priced but the most affordable for programs and most likely indestructible for the learning disabled.

 

 

As Paul Henderson said, once keelboats were out of the main event, that was always going to have a big knock on on the Paras. Do the 2.4s tend to be beach launched at top level, or are they still marina boats?

 

I read somewhere the 2.4 can be hand launched with lead ballast removed.

 

Yes, the hull weighs about 125lbs and would be unwieldy to raise and lower by hand. And then you would need double or triple the volunteers and how about the back injuries from putting the lead shoes in/out the keel sump? The 2.4mR only weighs about 500lbs total and could be launched from floating temp docks using a hand crank or a 12V bumper winch with a Solar charger setup. Once docks assembled in place Setting up a temp lift should be easy for any back yard garage mechanic.

 

With all the boats, you still need floating docks and hoists to get some of the competitors in and out of the boats. Some of these people can barely use a knife and fork.

Beach launching the Weta would be easiest. But they can tip and turtle, it will be interesting.

I'd love to sail a weta with someone but I don't know anyone with one and they are about 20K, Still too expensive for disabled people.

I have less than that in my 26, after replacing almost everything, and as I've said, tons more fun. Ice box, room, girls

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As Paul Henderson said, once keelboats were out of the main event, that was always going to have a big knock on on the Paras. Do the 2.4s tend to be beach launched at top level, or are they still marina boats?

The keelboats have four main drawbacks compared to dinghies and multi.

- need a marina, or at least a slipway into deep water.

- generally boring to watch.

- a bigger negative effect on the environment (keel / antifouling, etc).

- cost, not just in purchase, but also in shipping to events.

 

So from the point of view of the IOC and IPC it is fully understandable that they wanted to lose the keelboats. Sailors from emerging nations now have a much better chance to compete on an even level.

 

Unfortunately Para Sailing has not reached that point yet, nor will it with this latest equipment proposal. The 2.4m and Hansa cannot be beach launched. The Weta needs crew on the trampoline to not capsize. This thus excludes many types of disabilities.

 

The alternative is available. It is called the WindRider AS Trimaran. One boat With three purposes. A 4-person grassroots boat, at a cost just a bit higher than the Hansa bathtub. And a fully adaptive (allows all levels of disabilities to use it!) high performance one-person and two-person configuration, at a cost significantly less than the Weta or 2.4m. Add the zero maintenance and fact that the manufacturer is offering free boats for all major events, MNA's can expect a cost reduction in equipment purchase and regatta participation of Over 75%!!! But Para World Sailing is not interested. You figure out why...

I am guessing the Hansa was chosen because it is the Access Dinghy 303 and there are fleets world wide. There is a big fleet at BAADS in SF.

At 9k for a rotomolded thermoplastic sailing bathtub it is a bit over priced but the most affordable for programs and most likely indestructible for the learning disabled.

 

As Paul Henderson said, once keelboats were out of the main event, that was always going to have a big knock on on the Paras. Do the 2.4s tend to be beach launched at top level, or are they still marina boats?

I read somewhere the 2.4 can be hand launched with lead ballast removed.

Yes, the hull weighs about 125lbs and would be unwieldy to raise and lower by hand. And then you would need double or triple the volunteers and how about the back injuries from putting the lead shoes in/out the keel sump? The 2.4mR only weighs about 500lbs total and could be launched from floating temp docks using a hand crank or a 12V bumper winch with a Solar charger setup. Once docks assembled in place Setting up a temp lift should be easy for any back yard garage mechanic.

 

With all the boats, you still need floating docks and hoists to get some of the competitors in and out of the boats. Some of these people can barely use a knife and fork.

Beach launching the Weta would be easiest. But they can tip and turtle, it will be interesting.

I'd love to sail a weta with someone but I don't know anyone with one and they are about 20K, Still too expensive for disabled people.

I have less than that in my 26, after replacing almost everything, and as I've said, tons more fun. Ice box, room, girls

This article was just published on the smalltrimarans website. http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/windrider-option-for-disabled-sailors/

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Yes, the hull weighs about 125lbs and would be unwieldy to raise and lower by hand. And then you would need double or triple the volunteers and how about the back injuries from putting the lead shoes in/out the keel sump? The 2.4mR only weighs about 500lbs total and could be launched from floating temp docks using a hand crank or a 12V bumper winch with a Solar charger setup. Once docks assembled in place Setting up a temp lift should be easy for any back yard garage mechanic.

 

With all the boats, you still need floating docks and hoists to get some of the competitors in and out of the boats. Some of these people can barely use a knife and fork.

Beach launching the Weta would be easiest. But they can tip and turtle, it will be interesting.

I'd love to sail a weta with someone but I don't know anyone with one and they are about 20K, Still too expensive for disabled people.

I have less than that in my 26, after replacing almost everything, and as I've said, tons more fun. Ice box, room, girls

This article was just published on the smalltrimarans website. http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/windrider-option-for-disabled-sailors/

 

It sure looks good with the center seating, which is needed for Paralympic sailing.

 

para-world-sailing-5.jpg

Too bad the Weta has already been chosen.

I wonder how many disabled people got to vote?

I know Betsy, head of the WS Disabled Sailing Committee, is very good friends with an American female disabled sailor that owns a weta.

 

Things that make you go HHHHMMMMMMMM.

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Isn't the issue with non-ballasted boats they can capsize and turtle?

This could be a serious problem for people with limited mobility.

 

The new boats selected are only for 2017 Worlds, and legacy classes will also race in Kiel 2017.

For sailing to be reinstated in 2024, WS needs to boost participation from 24 countries to 32.

So, current selection of boats is about numbers, more than performance or suitability.

 

If sailing is reinstated for 2024, the final selection of boats will occur in 2020 +/- a year

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Isn't the issue with non-ballasted boats they can capsize and turtle?

This could be a serious problem for people with limited mobility.

 

The new boats selected are only for 2017 Worlds, and legacy classes will also race in Kiel 2017.

For sailing to be reinstated in 2024, WS needs to boost participation from 24 countries to 32.

So, current selection of boats is about numbers, more than performance or suitability.

 

If sailing is reinstated for 2024, the final selection of boats will occur in 2020 +/- a year

 

From the Keil to host 2017 Para Worlds website.

 

The disciplines proposed by the Para World Sailing Committee for inclusion in the 2017 Championships are:
One Person Keelboat (Norlin 2.4 OD) - Open
One Person Keelboat (Hansa 303) - Female
One Person Keelboat (Hansa 303) - Male
Two Person Multihull (Weta) - Mixed
Two Person Keelboat (SKUD 18) - Open (International Championship)
Three Person Keelboat (Sonar) - Open (International Championship)
Other formats may also be tested in the Weta and Hansa 303.
Do these idiots know that there is a limited number of TRULY disabled people who can sail at this level?

When the (open) is listed that means anyone can enter, disabled or not.

If Clean had a brain cell left in is little peanut, he would be all over this. But like most in sailing and the world,
NO ONE REALLY GIVES A SHIT about the disabled.

 

http://www.sailing.org/news/41335.php#.WEyoh_krI2w

And using Heiko from Germany as the photo of disabled is a real joke. Considering he said "after sailing has been removed from the Para Games, I'm going to sail a FInn."
I do not know many really disabled people that can sail a finn.

 

World Sailing and US Sailing suck.

Dave T

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Beach launching the Weta would be easiest. But they can tip and turtle, it will be interesting.

I'd love to sail a weta with someone but I don't know anyone with one and they are about 20K, Still too expensive for disabled people.

I have less than that in my 26, after replacing almost everything, and as I've said, tons more fun. Ice box, room, girls

 

 

The Weta costs US$13,995 in the USA and AU$18,500 in Australia (which is the price that Windrider keep mis-quoting).

 

There's a 2014-built used Weta on eBay in Florida for $5,000 which seems like a great deal.

 

The UK Disabled Sailing Association has been using the Weta with a drop-in seat for 5 years and have been unable to capsize them with the seat in place

 

"My opinion is that having a seated crew on the centreline effectively stabilises and dampens (pun intended - it is a very wet boat in a blow) the actions of the boat making it quite well mannered."

 

See full report here

 

Para sailors Chris Sharp and Andrew May in NZ have been testing capsize retrieval and also racing against (and beating!) the regular Weta fleet in Auckland.

 

I've been sailing my Weta with Sarah Ross, the Australian Paralympic sailing team physiotherapist and assessor. She is of the opinion that for the next Para world championships in June, the Weta should either be sailed solo by level 4 and above (as it has been tested by Neil Patterson in Aus, and Chris Sharp in NZ) or two handed by crew with a combined total of 10, while research on the safety of seated Para athletes is undertaken.

 

Don't customise the boat - customise the seat.

I think it would be much cheaper, more sustainable, and better for international participation if shipping containers of standard Wetas, Hansa 303s, coach boats and spares (I realise the Norlin 2.4s have been extensively customised for each sailor) could be sent to each Para event so that all that competitors and coaches need to do is turn up with their seat, rather like Enduro car racers. Instead of each country having to send containers with all their race boats, support boats and gear to every event.

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Beach launching the Weta would be easiest. But they can tip and turtle, it will be interesting.

I'd love to sail a weta with someone but I don't know anyone with one and they are about 20K, Still too expensive for disabled people.

I have less than that in my 26, after replacing almost everything, and as I've said, tons more fun. Ice box, room, girls

 

 

The Weta costs US$13,995 in the USA and AU$18,500 in Australia (which is the price that Windrider keep mis-quoting).

 

There's a 2014-built used Weta on eBay in Florida for $5,000 which seems like a great deal.

 

The UK Disabled Sailing Association has been using the Weta with a drop-in seat for 5 years and have been unable to capsize them with the seat in place

 

"My opinion is that having a seated crew on the centreline effectively stabilises and dampens (pun intended - it is a very wet boat in a blow) the actions of the boat making it quite well mannered."

 

See full report here

 

Para sailors Chris Sharp and Andrew May in NZ have been testing capsize retrieval and also racing against (and beating!) the regular Weta fleet in Auckland.

 

I've been sailing my Weta with Sarah Ross, the Australian Paralympic sailing team physiotherapist and assessor. She is of the opinion that for the next Para world championships in June, the Weta should either be sailed solo by level 4 and above (as it has been tested by Neil Patterson in Aus, and Chris Sharp in NZ) or two handed by crew with a combined total of 10, while research on the safety of seated Para athletes is undertaken.

 

Don't customise the boat - customise the seat.

I think it would be much cheaper, more sustainable, and better for international participation if shipping containers of standard Wetas, Hansa 303s, coach boats and spares (I realise the Norlin 2.4s have been extensively customised for each sailor) could be sent to each Para event so that all that competitors and coaches need to do is turn up with their seat, rather like Enduro car racers. Instead of each country having to send containers with all their race boats, support boats and gear to every event.

 

 

I don't think the 2.4mR have been extensively customized. I'm a T-11 Para was rated level 3 for some time but due to getting older, I'm probably a 2 now. I did nothing but unhook the foot pedals because I did not want my foot resting on one and not be able to steer with the tiller. I've always tried to to very little to the standard boat. Tuning is the most important part. Johnny Ruf had the most customized seat I had ever seen.

 

Who would own the fleet if all I did was show up with a seat?

Are you saying that each Country have a standard container for shipping their sailors boats? Or is the Factory supplying the boats?

 

 

A friend has an older weta and he has seen the new ones. Dramatic difference in construction and weight. You get what you pay for.

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I wish the Full Report had more close up shots of the seat and steering.

 

 

These videos really show how it could work.

 

This vid shows how to right the capsized boat. If in a race, your race is now over.

 

 

 

This vid shows a Para, ???, sailing the boat. It looks do-able to me.
I'd like to see a small back at the end of the ama, sort of like the Trap Seat that Mike Strahle has placed on the Hobie 16. I would not have it extend over the water like the photo shows. http://pvamag.com/sns/article/4687/trapseat_sailing
The trap seat allows a Quad to be in one position and sail the boat. They race with an Able Crew.

 

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There's a video showing how the seat and steering are fitted here

 

It takes about 5 minutes to right a capsized Weta so yes, your race is over, but the same would be true for most monohulls if capsized in a race. Even if you can't right the boat, it's a very stable safe platform to wait on the tramps for a rescue boat.

 

And yes, the video you posted is of Chris Sharp and Andrew May both (level 4) Para sailors from Auckland, NZ. showing that it is possible to right the Weta if capsized.

 

You wouldn't want a seat at the back of the Ama:

1. There's not enough buoyancy in the Ama to support someone in a seat

2. It would make the boat very unstable if the seat was on the leeward side

3. It would be an incredibly wet (and thus cold) place to sit

 

I wish the Full Report had more close up shots of the seat and steering.

 

 

These videos really show how it could work.

 

This vid shows how to right the capsized boat. If in a race, your race is now over.

 

 

 

This vid shows a Para, ???, sailing the boat. It looks do-able to me.
I'd like to see a small back at the end of the ama, sort of like the Trap Seat that Mike Strahle has placed on the Hobie 16. I would not have it extend over the water like the photo shows. http://pvamag.com/sns/article/4687/trapseat_sailing
The trap seat allows a Quad to be in one position and sail the boat. They race with an Able Crew.

 

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