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I14 rigging from Scratch

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I have a pretty bare hull 2000 Morrison 10.

 

Needs some gelcoat repair but that's about it. All the deck gear has been stripped and line systems stripped. Does anyone have any detailed photos of i14 rigging systems of this vintage. I'm not looking for the most recent fancy systems but just simple systems that work well.

 

Photos will be up tomorrow.

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If you want a simplistic rigging layout, you could look at how a 49er is rigged, and copy it. I would suggest moving the cunno and vang (kicker) back to mid cockpit however.

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its not the one that travelled through Minnesota, is it?

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nope, different one then.

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I concur, If you want a simple boat a 49er is a pretty fair model. Rigging systems for 14s of that age were mostly kilobucks, although it would not be totally surprising if a Kiwi boat had been a bit simpler rigged than an NH boat.

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The nice thing on the 14 is that it is really up to you! 49er rigging will work just fine, though you can spend hours and hours working through stupid little adjustment setups.

 

I assume it has an old Willetts mast (?). If so then it should have pretty standard rigging...2 lower shrouds and one adjustable upper. Put the lowers and forestay with a simple pin/chainplate setup like the 49er. A simple boat breaker can tension the forestay to put the mast up. The uppers can be lead to a purchase mounted to the mast with a simple flip flop adjuster mounted to the mast.

 

Run the cunningham and vang to positions on the rail that the crew/skipper can reach. They are the only really important parts.

 

Also I would ditch any center cleat for the mainsheet. Run a aft 3-1 bridle and a ratchet on the boom. No cleat. Let the crew trim the main upwind, and the helm trims during tacks and downwind. If you have a jib track (self tacking) then run the jib sheet back so that the crew or helm can trim at any time.

 

Beyond that, make the spinnaker launch/retrieve setup simple and flowing nice. Just like the 49er, though I don't think you need as much bungee takeups on the 14. I don't remember.

Make it simple. I swam a lot and 90% of the rigging adjustment is wasted if the stick is in the water :)

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Congrats, you'll have a great laugh.

TBH there are as many 49er simple setups as anything else from that vintage fwds, echo all statements re making sure foil adjust, cunno and vang work, anything else is just a bonus really. I did see some M10 or M11s for sale semi recently, I think the picsw would have been a good giveaway. Nonetheless the no foredeck basic style of the boat lends itself to pretty much any fitout style.

I would put vang/cunno to fwd rack TBH, less faff cost and stuff to trip over. Maybe have foil adjust within helms reach

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I guess what I'm asking is does anyone have any diagrams or detailed pictures of either 14 or 49er layouts?

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You go first with the pics. Lets see what you have to work with. Also, do you have a rig?

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On my 2000 B3, we have pinned shrouds and an adjustable forestay which makes for easier on the water gear changes (no boat breaker required). When I rerigged my boat I put on a tiller twister thingy for the foil and led the following controls to the center of the racks: Cunno, vang and jib up/down fucker/halyard tension. I also led the jib sheet farther aft with the main straight off the boom as it was.

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You go first with the pics. Lets see what you have to work with. Also, do you have a rig?

8 year old carbon stick. Haven't looked to closely at it.

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I'm no expert (I never owned a Morrison 10), but I'd say that this is not a Morrison 10.

I guess it's a bit older than that.

there are a couple pictures of a Morrison 10 here: https://plus.google.com/photos/109587978478567959294/albums/6052173105355478353?authkey=CKrB7YaZu5fGmAE&banner=pwa&gpsrc=pwrd1#photos/109587978478567959294/albums/6052173105355478353?authkey=CKrB7YaZu5fGmAE&banner=pwa&gpsrc=pwrd1

it includes some rigging details.

If you want to get this thing on the water, i'd go with a simple an approach as you can get. Everything fixed, no adjustable rig, only vang, Cunningham and jib halierd tension. outhaul on the boom. The fittings are still going to cost you some hundreds of dollars (they will!)

Remember that the hull itself is not the most expensive part of the boat.

You could stick an old (PRE 2008) 49er rig on it. that would probably be too large. you'd definitely need a smaller jib, because the I14 does not have the foredeck length of the 49er.

You could use a 29erXX or even a 29er rig.

maybe even a 505 rig.

Do you have a rudder, tiller, centerboard, bow sprit, boom? If not then these things are going to cost a lot because you can't buy them off the shelf.

Unless you get a complete rig with sails for less than 1000 USD you'll be better of getting any similar skiff type boat complete. You'll probably end up with something newer and better for the same money, even when considering that you bought the hull already. I'm guessing someone gave it to you for free, or for very little money.

i can understand the wish to build something yourself. Do the DIY in your garage and so ...

just be aware that it is by far not the cheapest option.

I had an old I14 and I loved it. I also changed some things and I liked fiddling with it. But this is something else. You'll have to up in a lot of money and time and you'll end up with something that is old, difficult to sail and might break.

What's your aim with this project?

If I'd were you I'd get an old 29er with a couple of sets of sails for 2-3000 and have some fun!

btw the pictures from above come from an ad in Germany: http://forum.yacht.de/showthread.php?156155-FOR-SALE-14-Footer-International-14-Skiff

it's not that old (2 month) and they want 4000 Euros.

I14 bits and pieces (mast, sails, boom, ...) are difficult to find and most likely won't fit because every boat is different. Even the sails don't fit on all masts, ...

I broke the aluminium mast on my old I14 10 years ago and needed to get a replacement. I got an outdated carbon mast and needed to replace the mainsail too because it the old one didn't fit anymore. the two cost me close to 1000 euros and the sail was lousy and started to break soon.

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The goal is not to be in serious racing trim but to have a fun fast boat to bomb around in and learn how to sails doublehanded skiffs. The hull was given to me by a friend and all the deck gear will be in hand in the next week or too. He stripped the boat in 2007 to paint it but never got around to it. I have a rig and I have the time to finish this project.

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I think what you have there is NZ 14 #34. Tim Willets sailed NZL34, named High Modulus, in the 1997 Worlds. http://www.internati...s/1997/1997.pdf

 

If you have/can get all the gear and will enjoy putting her back together then fine, but if there's much of any significance missing it could be a serious money pit.

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Greg, isn't that your old boat?

That IS my old boat. It's not a Morrison. It's a Tim Willets designed boat. I bought her from Tim after the Richmond worlds in 1997, and sailed it in the Sandringham worlds in 1999. She's pretty high tech construction for the day, stiff, and a sweet boat to sail. I used to sail it with a 6'4" tall Indian dude who weighed maybe 150 pounds soaking wet. Good times indeed. I have some photos under sail from back in the day, but this was pre-phone photos so it's all film. I've got this great sequence of a mark rounding at the Worlds and I'll post later tonight. Unfortunately no shots of the rigging. Tim might have a photo of the rigging? Assuming it's my old rig, it's a standard stiff Willets rig. Is it painted white?

 

Keep it simple, pinned main shrouds, adjustable forestay, we ran the chute back to port, the forestay adjuster to starboard in the front of the boat. You should be able to put a self-tacking jib on that boat easily, so do that, and have your crew trim the main. Don't bother with the possible articulating pole, Tim tried it said it was useless and we had it centered by the time I had it.

 

History wise - the boat left NorCal and went to Minnesota, a guy who occasionally crewed for me bought it, took it back there, and had no one to play with, so sold it, likely to your buddy in Seattle.

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I'll look around and see if Renee has any shots from '97, doubtful any rigging shots though. As I remember there were several KIWI boats sold after '97. Sort of ended the KIWI 14 fleet. There was an attempt to help them get going again in 2005 at the Takapuna Worlds, but they never really got much traction, again of the few KIWI boats there, most were sold offshore. If the boat is in Seattle, ask Hendo or some of the Seattle fleet to guide you through some basic rigging. Keep it simple and just go sail the boat!

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Very cool to know the origins of this boat. It's not the original rig but rather a newer carbon stick that's black. I'll post pics of that later today. Rigging it like a 49er with a self tacker is attractive.

 

I'll definitely take a trip to the dinghy dock at shilshole to look at some rigging

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you'll learn more than enough at shilshole.

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Maybe you've seen this - but this is how far you can go. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this...

 

 

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Maybe you've seen this - but this is how far you can go. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this...

 

 

Way to complicated for what I'm thinking. I like the fixed shrouds with adjustable forestay idea. Cunno, vanG to the rail and crew trims main while skip has the tacking jib.

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Absolutely go for simple. Adjustable forestay is great, check your rig to see if it has the adjuster in the mast. If it doesn't set it up to adjust in the bow instead of having all that stuff up in the air.

 

The Seattle guys can get you on the way. Put the mast at the right enough rake and get on the water.

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Greg, isn't that your old boat?

That IS my old boat. It's not a Morrison. It's a Tim Willets designed boat. I bought her from Tim after the Richmond worlds in 1997, and sailed it in the Sandringham worlds in 1999. She's pretty high tech construction for the day, stiff, and a sweet boat to sail. I used to sail it with a 6'4" tall Indian dude who weighed maybe 150 pounds soaking wet. Good times indeed. I have some photos under sail from back in the day, but this was pre-phone photos so it's all film. I've got this great sequence of a mark rounding at the Worlds and I'll post later tonight. Unfortunately no shots of the rigging. Tim might have a photo of the rigging? Assuming it's my old rig, it's a standard stiff Willets rig. Is it painted white?

 

Keep it simple, pinned main shrouds, adjustable forestay, we ran the chute back to port, the forestay adjuster to starboard in the front of the boat. You should be able to put a self-tacking jib on that boat easily, so do that, and have your crew trim the main. Don't bother with the possible articulating pole, Tim tried it said it was useless and we had it centered by the time I had it.

 

History wise - the boat left NorCal and went to Minnesota, a guy who occasionally crewed for me bought it, took it back there, and had no one to play with, so sold it, likely to your buddy in Seattle.

Seeing those photos would be neat.

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Unfortunately '97 pre-digital, so all shot are negative film. Didn't see anything great On the green Kiwi boat though. Maybe Greg has something and can put up. The recent trend has been back towards the very stiff rigs (like the old Willets). Thought of trying to find some of the old rigs we all were trying to get rid of 15 yrs ago and put it on some of the old flat rocker boats put a t-foil on some of those boats and I think they may be very competitive if sail right. Rig that thing up and sail it!

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Unfortunately '97 pre-digital, so all shot are negative film. Didn't see anything great On the green Kiwi boat though. Maybe Greg has something and can put up. The recent trend has been back towards the very stiff rigs (like the old Willets). Thought of trying to find some of the old rigs we all were trying to get rid of 15 yrs ago and put it on some of the old flat rocker boats put a t-foil on some of those boats and I think they may be very competitive if sail right. Rig that thing up and sail it!

So what I have is one of the flat rocker boats? T-Foil rudder? What is the relationship between the Kiwi 14 foot skiffs and the modern I14? Is this one of those inbetweeners?

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she measured in as a new-rules I14, no grandfathering necessary. It wasn't nearly as touchy to drive as the boat I had just prior to it, which was one of the Devine Madness boats, left in the US in '87 or so. That might have been as Madness had a massive aluminum rig...

 

NZL 34 wasn't nosey, but the t-foil would make the boat even sweeter to sail.

 

I remember the only reason I sold it was I received an unsolicited offer and Bieker was building the first couple of Bieker IIIs, for a pretty attractive price.

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i apologize for the quality - only shots easily available. Mark roundings were fun, see if you can find us, and then an upwind shot. No idea who actually took the photos or I'd give credit where credit is due.

 

Mark Rounding

 

Upwind

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i apologize for the quality - only shots easily available. Mark roundings were fun, see if you can find us, and then an upwind shot. No idea who actually took the photos or I'd give credit where credit is due.

Thanks! Busy roundings.

 

Going to sand down the chips in the gelcoat tomorrow then get started on filling them.

 

Any tips on painting this thing so it stays fast?

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Unfortunately '97 pre-digital, so all shot are negative film. Didn't see anything great On the green Kiwi boat though. Maybe Greg has something and can put up. The recent trend has been back towards the very stiff rigs (like the old Willets). Thought of trying to find some of the old rigs we all were trying to get rid of 15 yrs ago and put it on some of the old flat rocker boats put a t-foil on some of those boats and I think they may be very competitive if sail right. Rig that thing up and sail it!

 

Has anyone bothered to quantitatively compare the old Willets rig bend characteristics (with the carbon track removed and replaced with a more flexible track) with some of the newer rigs?

 

Funny how what's old is new.

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Unfortunately '97 pre-digital, so all shot are negative film. Didn't see anything great On the green Kiwi boat though. Maybe Greg has something and can put up. The recent trend has been back towards the very stiff rigs (like the old Willets). Thought of trying to find some of the old rigs we all were trying to get rid of 15 yrs ago and put it on some of the old flat rocker boats put a t-foil on some of those boats and I think they may be very competitive if sail right. Rig that thing up and sail it!

 

Has anyone bothered to quantitatively compare the old Willets rig bend characteristics (with the carbon track removed and replaced with a more flexible track) with some of the newer rigs?

 

Funny how what's old is new.

Overall stiffness (EI) is similar to the IM masts, although the bend distribution tends to be stiff in the tip which levers the mid panel and therefore the mid leech.

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So what I have is one of the flat rocker boats? T-Foil rudder? What is the relationship between the Kiwi 14 foot skiffs and the modern I14? Is this one of those inbetweeners?

Kiwi boats from that era seemed to be a hybrid between the Aust. Ice hulls and the Uk morrisons. With a T foil I would think that they would not be exceptionally difficult to sail in a seaway.

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I sailed that boat successfully on SF Bay for a couple good years sans foils. It wasn't bad at all. And I wasn't that good. I couldn't hang with the Bieker 2s but, those guys were really good. It would certainly be even easier with a t-foil. Faster too.

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I'm no expert (I never owned a Morrison 10), but I'd say that this is not a Morrison 10.

I guess it's a bit older than that.

there are a couple pictures of a Morrison 10 here: https://plus.google.com/photos/109587978478567959294/albums/6052173105355478353?authkey=CKrB7YaZu5fGmAE&banner=pwa&gpsrc=pwrd1#photos/109587978478567959294/albums/6052173105355478353?authkey=CKrB7YaZu5fGmAE&banner=pwa&gpsrc=pwrd1

it includes some rigging details.

If you want to get this thing on the water, i'd go with a simple an approach as you can get. Everything fixed, no adjustable rig, only vang, Cunningham and jib halierd tension. outhaul on the boom. The fittings are still going to cost you some hundreds of dollars (they will!)

Remember that the hull itself is not the most expensive part of the boat.

You could stick an old (PRE 2008) 49er rig on it. that would probably be too large. you'd definitely need a smaller jib, because the I14 does not have the foredeck length of the 49er.

You could use a 29erXX or even a 29er rig.

maybe even a 505 rig.

Do you have a rudder, tiller, centerboard, bow sprit, boom? If not then these things are going to cost a lot because you can't buy them off the shelf.

Unless you get a complete rig with sails for less than 1000 USD you'll be better of getting any similar skiff type boat complete. You'll probably end up with something newer and better for the same money, even when considering that you bought the hull already. I'm guessing someone gave it to you for free, or for very little money.

i can understand the wish to build something yourself. Do the DIY in your garage and so ...

just be aware that it is by far not the cheapest option.

I had an old I14 and I loved it. I also changed some things and I liked fiddling with it. But this is something else. You'll have to up in a lot of money and time and you'll end up with something that is old, difficult to sail and might break.

What's your aim with this project?

If I'd were you I'd get an old 29er with a couple of sets of sails for 2-3000 and have some fun!

btw the pictures from above come from an ad in Germany: http://forum.yacht.de/showthread.php?156155-FOR-SALE-14-Footer-International-14-Skiff

it's not that old (2 month) and they want 4000 Euros.

I14 bits and pieces (mast, sails, boom, ...) are difficult to find and most likely won't fit because every boat is different. Even the sails don't fit on all masts, ...

I broke the aluminium mast on my old I14 10 years ago and needed to get a replacement. I got an outdated carbon mast and needed to replace the mainsail too because it the old one didn't fit anymore. the two cost me close to 1000 euros and the sail was lousy and started to break soon.

Yep, that's my boat. Its still for sale. if anyone is interested, 3500 € as a special SA offer :-D

 

And if you need a translation, let me know!

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I'm no expert (I never owned a Morrison 10), but I'd say that this is not a Morrison 10.

I guess it's a bit older than that.

there are a couple pictures of a Morrison 10 here: https://plus.google.com/photos/109587978478567959294/albums/6052173105355478353?authkey=CKrB7YaZu5fGmAE&banner=pwa&gpsrc=pwrd1#photos/109587978478567959294/albums/6052173105355478353?authkey=CKrB7YaZu5fGmAE&banner=pwa&gpsrc=pwrd1

it includes some rigging details.

If you want to get this thing on the water, i'd go with a simple an approach as you can get. Everything fixed, no adjustable rig, only vang, Cunningham and jib halierd tension. outhaul on the boom. The fittings are still going to cost you some hundreds of dollars (they will!)

Remember that the hull itself is not the most expensive part of the boat.

You could stick an old (PRE 2008) 49er rig on it. that would probably be too large. you'd definitely need a smaller jib, because the I14 does not have the foredeck length of the 49er.

You could use a 29erXX or even a 29er rig.

maybe even a 505 rig.

Do you have a rudder, tiller, centerboard, bow sprit, boom? If not then these things are going to cost a lot because you can't buy them off the shelf.

Unless you get a complete rig with sails for less than 1000 USD you'll be better of getting any similar skiff type boat complete. You'll probably end up with something newer and better for the same money, even when considering that you bought the hull already. I'm guessing someone gave it to you for free, or for very little money.

i can understand the wish to build something yourself. Do the DIY in your garage and so ...

just be aware that it is by far not the cheapest option.

I had an old I14 and I loved it. I also changed some things and I liked fiddling with it. But this is something else. You'll have to up in a lot of money and time and you'll end up with something that is old, difficult to sail and might break.

What's your aim with this project?

If I'd were you I'd get an old 29er with a couple of sets of sails for 2-3000 and have some fun!

btw the pictures from above come from an ad in Germany: http://forum.yacht.de/showthread.php?156155-FOR-SALE-14-Footer-International-14-Skiff

it's not that old (2 month) and they want 4000 Euros.

I14 bits and pieces (mast, sails, boom, ...) are difficult to find and most likely won't fit because every boat is different. Even the sails don't fit on all masts, ...

I broke the aluminium mast on my old I14 10 years ago and needed to get a replacement. I got an outdated carbon mast and needed to replace the mainsail too because it the old one didn't fit anymore. the two cost me close to 1000 euros and the sail was lousy and started to break soon.

Yep, that's my boat. Its still for sale. if anyone is interested, 3500 as a special SA offer :-D

 

And if you need a translation, let me know!

Now that's what i call an offer! Carbon fun for 3500? Nice!

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I think the square heads completely change the way the willets work, in a good way, I starting looking at that in '06 as a way to cheaply upgrade. Still need to play rake and lower bend.

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i apologize for the quality - only shots easily available. Mark roundings were fun, see if you can find us, and then an upwind shot. No idea who actually took the photos or I'd give credit where credit is due.

Thanks! Busy roundings.

 

Going to sand down the chips in the gelcoat tomorrow then get started on filling them.

 

Any tips on painting this thing so it stays fast?

 

what's cool about that mark rounding, and I was a mid-fleet guy at my best, was how tactical it was. Picking lanes from a couple hundred yards out, timing the douse, all kinds of challenges. And happening quite quickly. The uninitiated bitch about fast boats not being tactical, well, take a look at that rounding and rethink the argument.

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I think the "not tactical" statements may come from folks that can't think that fast :P

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They mainly come/came from people who thought that their old school slow boats were threatened by newer faster boats.

Probably diminish now as that doesn't seem to be the case.

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I think the "not tactical" statements may come from folks that can't think that fast :P

 

there's something to that. My crew was a damn good sailor, but coming from Lasers and Sonars never really developed the concept that you had to think much farther afield. In the real gnarly stuff, before rudder foils, you could see 1/2 mile ahead and realize you needed to gybe or you'd hit that cruiser. Of course, sometimes in that 1/2 mile there was never an opportunity to gybe...

 

I always looked at it as you have to think 3-5 minutes ahead for tactical calls, longer for strategy but set that aside. In a laser or a J24 3 minutes is a certain distance. In a 14 3 minutes is 2x that distance upwind, farther downwind. I didn't start in slower boats, first dinghy I ever owned was a 14, so I had that point of view. I never really developed the touch though as I came to sailing late in life.

 

Sailing 14s helps a ton in sailing multis - and actually helps a lot on the SC50 as well.

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Took a trip to shilshole and learned quite a bit about masts and main sheet systems. Found a couple schematics on ronstans website and have the vang, spinnaker halyard/retriever/pole/tack thing, and main sheet figured out. It's just a matter of putting it into practice on the boat. Does anyone have any ideas for cunno systems and forestay nonsense. I have a 6 to 1 magic box but not much else.

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I think I'm just going to run with turn buckles on the forestay and caps. Is there anything wrong with this? Then do block and tackle on the lowers. I don't really understand how the uppers are adjusted, They come to an eyelet on the forward part of the rig.

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Don't spend money on turnbuckles if you haven't got them in the box of fittings. Vectran lashings are lighter, cheaper and simpler. Sounds as if the uppers might have been the same.

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Don't spend money on turnbuckles if you haven't got them in the box of fittings. Vectran lashings are lighter, cheaper and simpler. Sounds as if the uppers might have been the same.

Not sure I follow, lash the shrouds to the chainplates? I can pick up turnbuckles pretty cheap, seems like the simplest way to retain the ability to tune the rig And be able to rig and derig quickly.

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if you are going to have fixed rake yes, just put a forged shackle in the chainplaate and lash to that. If you want to be able to adjust in repeatable increments interpose a pin rack.

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How would you get any tension on a system like that? I like this idea if I can still get proper tension. With the uppers and lowers I could conceivable do the same no? Then just have an adjustable fore stay to snug up everything else?

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With my Cherub I had a fixed rake rig, not being so heavily ragged as a 14 it needed less adjustment. The boat was also rigged on its side which made things easier.

Shrouds and checks were adjusted to precise length I wanted with a lashing to forged shackles on the "chain plate" (forged shackles have nice round section). My "chain plate" was actually a heavy D ring carbon bandaged onto the topside.

Caps, which were over both spreaders and down to the mast base were lashed semi permanently with the tension left on most of the time, but also lines drawn on the mast where the metal needed to reach for repeatability.

Rig tension was applied by mean of a lashing between a strop off the mast and the jib head. I just pulled it in until the tension on the shrouds was right - about 500lbs on the shrouds and 600 on the checks IIRC. So yes, adjustable jib halyard or forestay depending on the jib design would work fine.

'fraid I don't seem to have any photos.

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Turnbuckle are cheap if you use open body turnbuckles. Performance dinghies do not use open body turnbuckles.

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turnbuckles not needed.

 

Better to use pin racks on the mains, and the purchase on the forestay. You have loads of room on the starboard bow to put in a 6:1 and then a cascade to get it up to 24:1 or so. I forget what forestay purchase is necessary but that should be close.

 

Regarding attaching to t-fittings - they fit perfectly in the long, narrow shackles. The good ones.

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Okay so, pin racks on caps and lowers and a purchase on the forestay. What about the uppers? The uppers come together to one single wire splice on the forward part of the rig.

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a 6:1 captured on the rig should work - or you can lead it to the rails.

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So just have a 6 to 1 on the mast that leads to a simple cam cleat? I think I'll lead fore stay controls to the rail and leave the uppers and lowers at the mast. Vang cunno Will come to the rail.

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Maybe you've seen this - but this is how far you can go. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this...

 

 

Way to complicated for what I'm thinking. I like the fixed shrouds with adjustable forestay idea. Cunno, vanG to the rail and crew trims main while skip has the tacking jib.

Pin your forestsy and have adjustable shrouds

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Maybe you've seen this - but this is how far you can go. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this...

 

 

Way to complicated for what I'm thinking. I like the fixed shrouds with adjustable forestay idea. Cunno, vanG to the rail and crew trims main while skip has the tacking jib.
Pin your forestsy and have adjustable shrouds

if you want some adjustment Id personally would follow the other advice and pin the shrouds and have an adjustable forestay. for two reasons :

- if you want some on the water adjustment then you can change the pin position on the shrouds quite easily by loosening the forestay tension and maybe a safty device which you hook onto on of the trapezes to make sure you don't lose the mast if things go really wrong (Unintended tack, capsize, ...)

- it is easier to setup. You only need one purchase system instead of two.

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Our boat has a pinned forestay and is very simple. Has one purchase system for caps and shrouds with lowers pinned. Plenty of boats with pinned forestays at worlds... Didnt see many pinned shrouds. I beleive you need your rake sorted first. You start adjusting forestay you loose your rake

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if you don't want to adjust your rake that should be fine then. its been a couple of years since I sailed an 14. Seems the FD "adjustable rake" system took over my mindset completely.

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If I were to set the boat up to race with a Willets rig, but wanted it fairly simple, I would suggest having both the shrouds and forestay adjustable, but centrally located (within easy reach next to the Kingpost/mast).

 

If you want to go even simpler, for simply hauling @$$ and going faster than 99% of the monohulls near you, then I advocate for pining the shrouds (chainplate or turnbuckle), and make the forestay adjustable, as Liquid suggests.

 

I would caution against running a pinned forestay with the Willets rig, because I’m not sure that you can get sufficient mast bend through shroud tension, cunno, and vang alone. The ability to rake back is desirable to allow greater mast bend for a given shroud tension - just like in your 505.

 

Experts – would it be fair to say that the newer rigs have a greater tuning range for any rake setting than the Willets did?

 

Caveat – at 2 of the last 3 Worlds, we were in the middle third of the fleet, so there are others around here like Terry G, and Andrew P, and BWR whose advice I would take above my own.

 

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I keep forgetting that. Pinned shrouds should work fine then.

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I'm thinking fixed fore stay, shrouds on turnbuckles like 49ers, pinned lowers, and uppers on a simple purchase.

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here's why I think that's not the best solution.

 

Almost impossible to change the rig rake.

 

Rig rake is hugely important UNLESS you sail in very stable conditions. We would normally go out in 10, and finish in 20, and likely change the rake a couple times during one session.

 

pinned main shroud racks, with the lowers also to the rack, and an adjustable forestay allows you to change the rake (which you do with the main shrouds) and then use the forestay to bang on the tension.

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here's why I think that's not the best solution.

 

Almost impossible to change the rig rake.

 

Rig rake is hugely important UNLESS you sail in very stable conditions. We would normally go out in 10, and finish in 20, and likely change the rake a couple times during one session.

 

pinned main shroud racks, with the lowers also to the rack, and an adjustable forestay allows you to change the rake (which you do with the main shrouds) and then use the forestay to bang on the tension.

I do agree however. We just sailed the entire worlds with a pinned forestay and didnt even think about adjusting rake.

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Demon - what rig are you running?

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We have a bieker ice rig. Stiffened fore and aft. Cant remember our exact numbers.previously to that we ran a cst 14 which we also didnt adjust rake. Im not trying to argue with anyone justletting sarc know he has options

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I was just curious. Not trying to argue either. On the last boat we raced, we had a Becker Ice Rig, only used 2 rake settings, could get away with one.

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my data is definitely old, but the CST12 isn't exactly a new rig. Cheers whichever way you go.

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I just like the fixed fore stay for simplicities sake. Keep the shrouds on turnys and pin plates and pin the lowers. Uppers on a 12 tO one or something.

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you may be able to get away with less rake adjustments with a more bendy rig... however if its a stiff one we've found that rake adjustments are key to being able to keep the boat on its feet... this also is highly dependent on crew weight, moon phase, and a dozen other factors... my .02

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