Bob Perry

My newest project

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Ish:

The owner is a great guy. I am enjoying this project a lot. The only change he has asked for re: the rig is for me to draw the tack of the genoa higher.

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Ish:

The owner is a great guy. I am enjoying this project a lot. The only change he has asked for re: the rig is for me to draw the tack of the genoa higher.

 

I was talking about the guy who added the squaresail to his CT54. Obviously the current project is going swimmingly.

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Here you go Ish. Now don;t laugh. I was barely 27 years old when I threw my heart and soul into this design. They built 100 of them. I got a $350 royalty per boat.

ct_54_drawing_zpsxexftbpa.jpg

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Here you go Ish. Now don;t laugh. I was barely 27 years old when I threw my heart and soul into this design. They built 100 of them. I got a $350 royalty per boat.

ct_54_drawing_zpsxexftbpa.jpg

Beautiful boat, beautiful drawing!

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Here you go Ish. Now don;t laugh. I was barely 27 years old when I threw my heart and soul into this design. They built 100 of them. I got a $350 royalty per boat.

ct_54_drawing_zpsxexftbpa.jpg

Wowe! Realley beutifulle.

 

So you made allmoeste three millione on that oune?

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Snags: Yeah, around 3 mil. Give or take $2,965,000.

But I'm not complaining at all. I had a damn good time at the Ta Chaio yard in Taiwan. It was my second home. About two years ago, Robert, son of one of the original Ta Chaio brothers came and stayed a few days at the shack. I had never met him but we got along great. He wasn't born when we started that project.

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Is this the boat, Bob?

 

IMG_0316.JPG

 

IMG_0331.JPG

 

IMG_0334.JPG

 

This one is in charter service in the BVIs.

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Grey:

Yes, that is the boat. Spent two great weeks in the BVI's with my boys on one of those. It could have been that one with a different name.

When we walked down the dock and my boys saw the boat for the first time my son Max said, It looks like a pirate ship!" He understood perfectly.

 

That berth in the aft cabin was so big you could sleep on it in any direction.

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Yep. Pirate ship was what I thought too. It even had the rope strung ladders to evoke ratlines. It also had a 'tack' setting on the autopilot for singlehanding. Beautiful, well made, luxurious, and well maintained but not much like your later designs, IMHO. Lots of nautical spirit in it which is true in all your designs.

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Grey:

That could be the boat. the one we sailed had a crow's nest and ratlines.

We left Anagada and were barrelling along with a good heel on and someone said, "Where's Spike?"

We went frantic. My kid was gone. Then John the skipper spotted him in the crow's nest hanging on tight. He was 8 years old at the time.

John climbed up and brought him down. He was not at all bothered by the experience.

I was.

 

Spike as a gamer.

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Sounds like an oh crap.. time ensues .. now I can laugh sort of a moment.

 

Ratlines was what I thought was missing from the Brigantine-like CT54, can you set and douse square sails reliably from the deck?

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It's a box, boxes can be very strong and rigid even with holes in sides of the box.

 

It's done all the time these days Tucky. As Bob said, serious engineering. Check out the depth of those beams. The doors pin into the hull when closed pretty tightly (see those circles on the edge of the door? those are dogs, hydraulically operated). Also there is still plenty of boat below the tender bay deck providing longitudinal stiffness and torsional rigidity.

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Sparau:

Yes you can handle a square sail from the deck. I think they are called "brail lines", i.e. lines running vertically from the foot of the sail to the yard and from there inboard and down the mast to the deck,

.

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It's a box, boxes can be very strong and rigid even with holes in sides of the box.

 

It's done all the time these days Tucky. As Bob said, serious engineering. Check out the depth of those beams. The doors pin into the hull when closed pretty tightly (see those circles on the edge of the door? those are dogs, hydraulically operated). Also there is still plenty of boat below the tender bay deck providing longitudinal stiffness and torsional rigidity.

 

Yep.

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Deck layout is done, for now. Don Whelan at Harken was a big help spec'ing the gear. We will revisit the winch sizes again to be certain we have been generous with the sizes. Don and I think we are good now but client is not afraid of the winches being "too big". No major problem to solve on the deck now. A few details. We moved the stanchions off the cap rail and onto pipe sockets glassed to the inside of the bulwark. This will allow e to put some reaching tracks on the cap rail.

 

Rasper has been on vacation but he'll be back tomorrow to do some work on the 3D model.

Frames should be going up at the yard this week.

OK, just talked to the yard, not this week but the steel strong back for the frames will be up this week. As you can probably tell I am anxious to see that shape full size.

 

We have some items to work out on the plug and hull No. 1 mostly to do with how we are going to join the Chastity strut to the keel so it can be removed easily. I think we will work that out on the plug so we are ready to go for the next three boats. We have en excellent Rhino guy at the yard who will do the 3D modeling of that joint but I suspect some of it will require guys standing there, staring and scratching their heads.

deck%20plan%204-7-15_zpspp820naf.jpg

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We have sample laminates of hull, deck and the various interior panels now. I'll post the weights later. Carbon fiber changes everything when it comes to weight. We can overbuild this boat by a factor of three and still be far lighter than an

e glass boat. It's a shame to put teak on the CF decks.

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Vacation?! I've been on sabbatical up on the Snake River in Wyoming studying the Whitewater Dory's that the use for float fishing. I've always been fascinated by the similarities as well as the subtle differences between local variances on a given design showing the adaptation and evolution of a class of watercraft for a particular region and local conditions. Here is and excellent example of the type.

 

Larry-at-Spring-Bar.jpg

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Oh God,,,I how we don't have any mission creep in that direction.

 

Bob to client, "You can take the tiller just as soon as you put this fish suit on."

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Man-o-man does that forefoot demonstrate that is a river boat. :D

 

Do you carry a ball peen hammer onboard?

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Those are tubercules you are seeing on the fore foot of the McKenzie skiff. They are proven to promote laminar flow, what did you think they were, rock dings?

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Boy, you let a guy have a day off and before you know it he's posting pictures of a hallucination I had in the early '70s.

 

Hey Bob, I forgot, are you going to infuse the laminate?

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OK, just talked to the yard, not this week but the steel strong back for the frames will be up this week. As you can probably tell I am anxious to see that shape full size.

 

 

I guess that means you won't be up visiting this week. I am there working on my boat (and the CNC router in my spare time).

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Joli:

Yes, that's the plan right now. I sent rig requests off to Hall and Offshore. Offshore jumped on it immediately and I have yet to hear back from Hall. I don't much care for that. I am working my as off on tis project and it's a bug prize for whoever gets the contract. I expect results from vendors I contact. So, back to your question, for now it's the Offshore Spars Park Ave style boom with jiffy reefing. The question remains whether reefing lines will live on the mast or will come back to the winches on the aft end of the cabin trunk. WHL and I favor leaving them forward. Client has not reacted to suggestion yet. In a couple of weeks client will be here to meet with WHL and we can go over it then.

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We have sample laminates of hull, deck and the various interior panels now. I'll post the weights later. Carbon fiber changes everything when it comes to weight. We can overbuild this boat by a factor of three and still be far lighter than an e glass boat.

 

Does the resporkulously light hull end up making the ballast/displacment ratio weird (or just insanely high - 66%? higher?)

 

Does that end up affecting the motion of the boat (in ways other than say putting a monster bulb at the end of a 10' keel)?

 

Short version: the bottom end of this boat is really really going to stay pointing down, no?

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I like the new low profile park ave boom Offshore tooled. I think it looks better on smaller boats with the pocket being deeper it captures the main better.

 

Steve's working hard to build the business, he's a good guy.

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Joli:

I agree. I like Steve. He pays attention.

 

Zed: B/D will be around 44% when we are done. I have it at 42% now and we have some weight left over. This weight my be accounted for eventually when we can define some of the weights better. But as we sit now it's 42% and I'm looking to increase it possible to 44%.

 

Give the moderately high deadrise shape of the hull motion will not be an issue. Ballast and VCG does not have a lot to do with motion. Motion is mostly a function of the waterplane and initial, form stability.

 

Yeah, we'll keep the bottom side down on this one..

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Given the moderately high deadrise shape of the hull motion will not be an issue. Ballast and VCG does not have a lot to do with motion. Motion is mostly a function of the waterplane and initial, form stability.

 

I am going to write a book on NA made up of Bob's quotes taken from the Internet. Prolly a little YM and a few others too.

 

I will maybe call it, "The Gospel According to Bob."

 

(I know Bob has a book. I need to order myself a copy when back on that side of the pond this summer. I hope Toss's new book is ready by then too. But my book will be funn(i?)er)

 

 

NB. Still trying to work out why an extra-light hull (which I assume is usually a big component of total displacement) doesn't then require a lot more than normal ballast to bring the DWL back down to the wet stuff. Extra-heavy settees? Extra-heavy cushions? More beer stored under the cabin sole? Insane tankage?

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NB. Still trying to work out why an extra-light hull (which I assume is usually a big component of total displacement) doesn't then require a lot more than normal ballast to bring the DWL back down to the wet stuff. Extra-heavy settees? Extra-heavy cushions? More beer stored under the cabin sole? Insane tankage?

 

 

 

It's a function of displacement, not hull weight, Z

 

If you design a boat with a hull weight of x and ballast weight of y, your displacement is x + y

 

Now if you design a lighter boat, you can reduce both x and y: without altering the ballast ratio, then the net result is that your displacement is less

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Client sounds smart.

Nothing wrong with "high"

Clewed headsails.

Better reaching performance.

 

I think some disagree.

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Still trying to work out why an extra-light hull (which I assume is usually a big component of total displacement) doesn't then require a lot more than normal ballast to bring the DWL back down to the wet stuff.

 

My understanding is that it does. The designed underwater volume determines how much water needs to be displaced. The weight of the boat needs to match the weight of that water. Ballast is added until that's the case. Lighter hull means more ballast.

 

But ballast added low is better than any other weight.

 

An important corollary is that light displacement boats are light because they're designed to displace less water. As Bob has pointed out the "full keel" on this boat has a lot of volume.

 

The carbon hull on this boat is more about strength. God help us though if anyone decides to shoot it with a gun. No kevlar, which makes it a death trap. :)

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kdh has it correct Zedder.

Using carbon fiber we have the luxury of being able to make the skins way in excess of what is required by the ISO and ABS rules and still build a light structure resulting in a higher than normal B/D. Combining the CF with E glass in the keel fin gives us a laminate 4 times as stiff as required. In the outer skin for the hull we are 170% of what is required by ISO. That makes for a very tough outer skin of our cored sandwich.

 

Using carbon fiber lets us build a better boat.

 

Scared:

I was raising the tack, not the clew. I don't like high tacks and I certainly don't like high clews for an all purpose headsail. A high clewed reaching yankee has some benefits. I'm not sure I understand them but a sail maker buddy of mine, Doug Christie, believes in them and I trust him.

 

We need Zenmaster Fred to weigh in on this.

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When you raise the clew the top doesn't open as much when you crack vs a lower clew. Ie compare a jib top to an ap #1. Ie not as much fucking around with lead positions.

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When you raise the clew the top doesn't open as much when you crack vs a lower clew. Ie compare a jib top to an ap #1. Ie not as much fucking around with lead positions.

 

This is the only reason I can can up with. Further, with a higher clew the lead being more inboard than optimal is less critical.

 

I often roll up the jib a bit when reaching for this reason. I get improved visibility without a hit to speed, for cruising purposes.

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Most people don't Bob. Many new boats have no trim points to even allow lead placement. Look at a new Hanse with their tall high aspect jib, short tracks, and not outboard leads. Ask the Hanse sales guy how they trim the jib when reaching and you'll get blank stares.

Most people don't Bob. Many new boats have no trim points to even allow lead placement. Look at a new Hanse with their tall high aspect jib, short tracks, and not outboard leads. Ask the Hanse sales guy how they trim the jib when reaching and you'll get blank stares.

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Joli: I found over the years that production builders of my boats often left off the reaching tracks I spec'd. A good argument for alu toe rails like yours.

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In all honesty, most owners will get more use out of the bigger engine.

 

FWIW, I never change the jib leads on my boat when reaching.

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As I recall from back in the good old days of the IOR, when you had a dozen or so headsails and staysails to pick from, one was the "Blast Reacher" which had a raised tack in part to keep the jib/genoa from scooping water when heeled in bigger breeze...

As I recall from back in the good old days of the IOR, when you had a dozen or so headsails and staysails to pick from, one was the "Blast Reacher" which had a raised tack in part to keep the jib/genoa from scooping water when heeled in bigger breeze...

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I promised I'd keep you updated with exciting photos of the build of the cutters so here is my first pic. I know,,,,it's not really as exciting as you might like but for me it's pretty damn exciting. This is a stack of steel frames that will mount vertically on the steel strongback to hold the wooden mold frames for the male plug of the cutter's hull. I can breath a deep breath now that I know the build is underway. That's DDW's boat wrapped up behind the frames. He's keeping it fresh.

 

strong%201_zps5qxpgc1d.jpg

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Yep and the deck was festooned with tracks.

That might actually be a bit of an understatement...

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Crash:

On my early IOR boats I put three tracks per side. I knew one of them would be right in any given condition.

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Crash:

On my early IOR boats I put three tracks per side. I knew one of them would be right in any given condition.

 

Three tracks?

 

The way I think of it, the best place to put downward force on a jib clew would be what a boom would provide. Well outboard when reaching. Anything on the boat is hugely inferior.

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Crash:

On my early IOR boats I put three tracks per side. I knew one of them would be right in any given condition.

 

Three tracks?

 

The way I think of it, the best place to put downward force on a jib clew would be what a boom would provide. Well outboard when reaching. Anything on the boat is hugely inferior.

 

 

Maybe will see small reaching struts on cruising boats sometime in the future. (a la volvo65)

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The high clew on jt reachers I have used had a couple of purposes;

It let the foot clear the lifelines when reaching

It stopped the foot collecting waves

It allowed a higher midgirth for the same area, as the end plate effect from the deck sweeping working jib was no longer possible. More area where you want it for a reacher, for equal rating

 

We still used our normal jib tracks, but had a tweaker down to a strong point near the rail. As much adjustment as a second track, but less holes in the deck and less work on a sail change

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I promised I'd keep you updated with exciting photos of the build of the cutters so here is my first pic. I know,,,,it's not really as exciting as you might like but for me it's pretty damn exciting. This is a stack of steel frames that will mount vertically on the steel strongback to hold the wooden mold frames for the male plug of the cutter's hull. I can breath a deep breath now that I know the build is underway. That's DDW's boat wrapped up behind the frames. He's keeping it fresh.

 

strong%201_zps5qxpgc1d.jpg

 

Well I helped get their CNC router up and running (experience with a bunch of CNC machine tools helps). This evening the first frames were being cut for the plug. I'm going to get a beer out of someone for this. Especially since my boat is being used as a frame stand!

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DDW:

What you got under wraps there?

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The pic of those frames reminds me of the first pics of those badass workbenches just as Frankie was getting going...and hopefully just as fun to watch.

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DDW:

What you got under wraps there?

 

That's my odd custom, built by Betts (and Bruckmann). Poke around in old threads here, plenty of pictures of it. Or look here.

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DDW:

What you got under wraps there?

 

That's my odd custom, built by Betts (and Bruckmann). Poke around in old threads here, plenty of pictures of it. Or look here.

 

Very nice!

 

Boat003_zps782cb569.jpg?485

 

Boat005_zps99442130.jpg?917

 

Boat015_zpsbea952c0.jpg?871

 

Boat168_zpsc37efe3e.jpg?213

 

Boat170_zpscd472a6a.jpg?205

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That was when Betts was in Nevada. But this is a thread about Bob's boat, so it might be best to remove those links and let anybody interested go peruse them elsewhere as they wish. Don't want to hijack this build.

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No problem here DDW. Life is thread drift. It's nice to see your boat get exposure here. I look forward to seeing it with the wrapper off. Anxious to here the report on the new rudder.

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I've worked with WLO on several of my projects now. He's a very good sailor, he has a keen eye for precision and he's a sought after offshore navigator who is up on all the latest gear and programs. Here is a preliminary layout of the nav station array for the new cutter. This works a whole lot better for the client than a simple list of components. It's laid out with ergonomics in mind and versatility. WHL knows his stuff and always makes me look good.

griot%20nav%20station%20instruments-v2_z

While we were working on this we both had the same thought that perhaps the client was not seeing the advantages of a conventional nav station layout facing forward. I have discussed this with the client several times but he seems happy facing outboard. But I know that sometimes the client needs to see the alternative in order to judge the benefits. So with some prodding from WHL this afternoon I modified the layout to a more conventional nav station. I like this better. It ust looks right to me. Comments are appreciated.

Luigi%20stbd_zpszzg6rnum.jpg

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We have a similar layout with electronics on the starboard side and a forward facing nav desk. Major difference is that instead of the b and g plotter we have a laptop running expedition, mounted at the front of the chart table.

The plotter is the only thing there you actually want to face for a significant amount of time. What about a forward facing chart table, with most of the current t layout mounted on starboard side, and the plotter able to be swivelled out to be viewed in front and above the chart table?

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The array by WHL: that I posted is for the original, facing outboard nav station. With the conventional layout we will have the advantage of being able to have some instruments square to the line of sight siting there. We will pout other instruments that you don't need to stare at outboard. Certainly your idea would work but I'd like to see what I can with our idea first with a stationary screen.

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RE the Bruckman Betts design build; I have always loved this boat , absolutely loved the way old ideas made new with technology. Followed her on the cruise up to when the boom hydraulics blew up , she was still pretty new. Thanks DDW for the photolink of her build and for leading me Back to this design. Originally found on the Betts site but thanks for the hijack: Return to normal viewing!!

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RE the Bruckman Betts design build; ...Followed her on the cruise up to when the boom hydraulics blew up...

Which time? Actually they haven't been that problematic overall, leaked oil coming into New Hampshire I think it was, then puked all over the deck in NYC. Worked since. But I don't like hydraulics on a boat.

 

No problem here DDW. Life is thread drift. It's nice to see your boat get exposure here. I look forward to seeing it with the wrapper off. Anxious to here the report on the new rudder.

I imagine you have seen the finished rudder, in the end I did what I knew was the right thing (reinforced by your opinion), and Jim has done a fine job on it for somewhat less than we estimated so we are all happy. Can't wait to try it out. Spent all week wading in wiring. Got NMEA 0183, NMEA 2000, ST1, STng, STHS, Raynet, Enet, 802.11n all talking to each other, like herding cats.

 

CNC router is running now, and it looks like they are building your boat!

 

post-4075-0-23732500-1428725460_thumb.jpg

 

post-4075-0-90021500-1428725469_thumb.jpg

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DDW:

I thought your new rudder looked fine.

 

 

Many thanks for the pics of the frames.

 

Rant:

Client does not wear glasses. He may wear contacts. I've never asked.

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Deck layout is done, for now. Don Whelan at Harken was a big help spec'ing the gear. We will revisit the winch sizes again to be certain we have been generous with the sizes. Don and I think we are good now but client is not afraid of the winches being "too big". No major problem to solve on the deck now. A few details. We moved the stanchions off the cap rail and onto pipe sockets glassed to the inside of the bulwark. This will allow e to put some reaching tracks on the cap rail. Rasper has been on vacation but he'll be back tomorrow to do some work on the 3D model.Frames should be going up at the yard this week.OK, just talked to the yard, not this week but the steel strong back for the frames will be up this week. As you can probably tell I am anxious to see that shape full size. We have some items to work out on the plug and hull No. 1 mostly to do with how we are going to join the Chastity strut to the keel so it can be removed easily. I think we will work that out on the plug so we are ready to go for the next three boats. We have en excellent Rhino guy at the yard who will do the 3D modeling of that joint but I suspect some of it will require guys standing there, staring and scratching their heads.deck%20plan%204-7-15_zpspp820naf.jpg

Just a query on your pipe sockets for the stanchions, which i installed on my last boat, which used to fill up with water and rust the stainless. On my current project I am glassing in spigots which the stainless stanchions slide over. They are solid fiberglass rod so a little heavier but no stagnant water. Don't know if it applies here but you never know.

 

Dave.

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Joli knows his stuff.

 

The higher the clew is. .

within reason...the better it will reef/partially furl.

With proper lead it will go upwind fine

 

I haven't read whole thread,

any plan or boat construction

details planned for use of storm

Survival devices such as drag devices.

God forbid parachute, or other?

 

Thanks Bob. One of best threads I've read

On this site.

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griot%20nav%20station%20instruments-v2_z

 

 

I like to plan for obsolescence and minimize clutter. Some comments.

 

1. Is there a simple way to replace the whole panel when a refit of the electronics is done in the future?

 

2. Do we have to look at at that ShipModul unit? Seems it could be buried given there are no controls on it.

 

3. Why two cigarette lighter jacks? USB connections are much more useful these days for charging devices.

 

4. Why all the hardwired PC connections? Is the PC going to be connected to all of that? Serial ports from the dark ages? That's a lot of spaghetti to the PC. Hardware with USB in a way that all data are available, or just use the wifi.

 

5. Satellite phones are obsolete quickly. Use an Iridium Go unit that allows connecting any cell phone/computer to the satellite network over wifi. That little antenna on that phone will be useless--an external one is required for decent signal strength.

 

6. Is there anything that B&G instrument display can do that the multifunction display can't do?

 

7. Is that an autopilot remote? I don't like remotes hanging on display panels.

 

8. What is that SCS unit, audio? A bluetooth or wired connection to powered speakers from a phone/ipod is all anyone seems to use these days.

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One thing I like about the electrical panel on my boat is that it is made up of several aluminum panels, when I want to change something (e.g. the VHF) I buy a new sheet of aluminum, cut the required holes, paint and install. One can do that with wood, but more problematic.

 

For USB charging, Carling has just released a dual USB charger that is perfect for this. I'm trying to get my hands on one, they are still filling the inventory pipeline but by the time this fleet is launched they should be readily available. 3.1 amps, and doors to seal it when not in use.

v-charger_main_310x215.png

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Alcy:pipe sockets for stanchions are open at the bottom. they can't fill up with water.

 

Dave:

Thanks for the kind words. Look closely at the drawing. You may be able to see that there ate twin, p&S sampson posts immediately outboard of the twin hatches on the stern. These line up with opening son the bulwark so drogue lines can be lead through, to port an anchor roller, to stbd a hawse. They are anchored to a longitudinal partial bhd in the laz.

 

kdh:

You will have to take up your questions with WHL. He has done a lot of offshore navigating. I can guarantee you that his choices are not arbitrary. In terms of replacing the panel easily, I suspect so but that will be a joinerwork detail and is not a concern at this early stage. As I have said, the client has shown a preference for the outboard facing nav station and he has yet to see this drawing. I was just taking it for a test spin before sending it to him.

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I'm sure WHL's choices aren't arbitrary, but the panel looks like one a gadget geek would design. Unless the owner is a gadget geek the choices should be different. Just my opinion, of course.

 

By the way, I meant to write "Hardwire the computer to USB (or RJ-45)," not "hardware." The idea is to have one standard connection port that represents a network to all devices.

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One thing I like about the electrical panel on my boat is that it is made up of several aluminum panels, when I want to change something (e.g. the VHF) I buy a new sheet of aluminum, cut the required holes, paint and install. One can do that with wood, but more problematic.

 

For USB charging, Carling has just released a dual USB charger that is perfect for this. I'm trying to get my hands on one, they are still filling the inventory pipeline but by the time this fleet is launched they should be readily available. 3.1 amps, and doors to seal it when not in use.

v-charger_main_310x215.png

 

I use one of these from my single cigarette lighter port. Power sensing, enough for the ipad. Great kit.

51AQi04k9GL._SL1001_.jpg

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Ciao Bob

i noticed you desinged a soft dodger,have you considered to make it hard and move the main sheet traveler on to of it.Again just my 2 cent

http://alu56.blogspot.it/

 

Ps ,i like so much this design that i have hard time not to comment,i apologize

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Peterbilt dash has removable/replaceable panels. The photo of the proposed nav station electronics just made me think of my truck. Especially when KDH mentioned future changes/repairs to the mounted equipment.

post-116356-0-74289800-1428758256_thumb.jpg

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54:

No hard dodger. That is a major design consideration and was discussed and discarded very early in the design process. You have to plan around a hard dodger from day one if it is to work and not look like dog vomit. Would it be am better offshore boat with a hard dodger? Maybe.

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Bob,

The reason I ask is because of the different ways our various crew use Tue nav screen. I have 20/20, and prefer the screen at the back of the chart table. Some of our navs are older, and tend to hunch forward to get closer to the screen. The closeness of the side nav station may turn out to be a factor in why the client likes it, considering his specific visual needs might open up different options.

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Instead of the ShipModul bridge, consider the Vesper XB8000. AIS transceiver with built in WiFi and Bluetooth bridging to NMEA 0183 and/or 2000. And a very forward looking company (configure/update over WiFi, phone app, etc). I just a couple of days ago removed the ShipModul and replaced it with the Vesper - so I have a spare ShipModul :P . (But, doesn't the B&G already have WiFi?)

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you r right Bob , the hard dogger is a critical part of the design that can turn a yacht in to a food truck

if you ask me ,yes, the hard dodger would make her a better off shore boat,but she is not my boat ...

 

With the project i like, i tent to be a little childish and consider them as my ''own,thinking what i would change , how would i do that ...,and than realize i have my own boat at the yard that still needs a lot of thinking and hard work

 

Grazie for the opportunity to partecipate at your design

 

http://alu56.blogspot.it/

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I love watching the design process for another cool Perry boat. Beautiful sailboat!

 

For the nav panel, where will the VHF handsets attach? Will their cords get in the way of anything?

 

Cheers,

 

Jason

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Instead of the ShipModul bridge, consider the Vesper XB8000. AIS transceiver with built in WiFi and Bluetooth bridging to NMEA 0183 and/or 2000. And a very forward looking company (configure/update over WiFi, phone app, etc). I just a couple of days ago removed the ShipModul and replaced it with the Vesper - so I have a spare ShipModul :P . (But, doesn't the B&G already have WiFi?)

 

A wifi bridge to the instrument data seems like a pain, as one would like to connect to a wifi SSID that has access to the web and leave it at that.

 

That leaves bluetooth unless everything can be put on the same ethernet network--internet and instruments. Is this possible?

 

I know I'll never switch between internet and boat instruments so that I can see something on my phone that I can glance at the instrument displays to get.

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Ranti:

As Tim and I now propose the Nav station there is really not much limiting how close the screen can be to the person in the seat. It will be in a "pod/console hanging over the chart table. The only thing this impacts is the hinged range of the lifting table top. But you seldom open a chart table to 90 degs anyway.

 

54:

There is no reason a hard dodger would not work. It would take some fiddling to make sure it does not limit winch handle radii on the cabin top. I'd probably do a Gardenesque type dodger with fish boat lines. Garden always made that work so I think I can too. I'm no Bill Garden but few people have studied his work like I have.

 

Street:

Thank you. You'll have ask WHL about the VHF cords. I suspect he has thought of that. He is thorough.

 

I think nav station layout is highly personal. Choice of components is personal. I think it's a reflex to judge any design feature by your own preferences. I don't mind this. You can call me this afternoon and I promise to get started on your design Sunday. Can't think of a better way to spend a rainy Sunday. Think of the fun!

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apart from the obvious bonus given by a hard dodger(better shelter,visibility,easyer to flake the main,solid hand hold etc..)on this design it gives to possibility to move the track from that rised support that is not particulary interesting to my eyes.last but not least moving the track will Have a better performance and free a good spot to be seated drinkig a cofee and smoking a crop pipe leaning on the wind shield watching life going by.

Some people would possibly put the life raft in this spot,i would not,or better put a small inflatable up

side down for short hops. Just speculating, no more hard dodger from me

 

For the bow ''box,,i -donno english word- i find the solution in pic very pleasing to my eye and respecting the philosophy of your desing

 

Ciao Bob ,i know you will kick me if i m pushing to far, i never posted this much

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54:

I love that detail you posted. It looks great. But I think my approach solves more problems and is more in keeping with the TALLY HO MAJOR look I am after. We could not access that hatch with the aft end of the forward trunk so close to the mast. I'd be concerned having a hatch like that on the fore deck. It was common in the old days but my concern would be making it water tight. Keep the ideas coming. I might need them for the next design.

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i understand and agree with your concern and desing look to be followed and respected ,just for furum pleasure a detail i love

 

post-74863-0-02088000-1428774110_thumb.jpg

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griot%20nav%20station%20instruments-v2_z

 

I like to plan for obsolescence and minimize clutter. Some comments.

WHL: I like to plan for a reasonable degree of redundancy, and contingencies to connect in various ways. I am not keen on single point of failure systems for a boat going well offshore. Reducing clutter comes into consideration, but not arbitrarily at the expense of contingencies and function.

 

1. Is there a simple way to replace the whole panel when a refit of the electronics is done in the future?

WHL: this is one panel at the moment for the client's first scenario of sitting facing outboard. Bob and I think that facing forward will function better on either tack, rather than pushing yourself off the nav station on port tack, or trying to lean in on starboard. In heavy air and lousy sea state, sitting reasonably securely to use nav and comms gear should fall into the "safety of boat and crew categpry" and not just personal preference or space economies.

 

Before Bob posted this iteration in the spiral, we had alread split the panel for the forward facing nav station version. Comms gear remained outboard facing inboard, and the nav displays in front facing aft.

 

2. Do we have to look at at that ShipModul unit? Seems it could be buried given there are no controls on it.

WHL: you don't have to look at it at all. It can be behind the bulkhead, however, although there are no controls on it, there are some diagnostic lights which are useful to be visible, hopefully rarely. Since there is space, I defer to function rather than simply getting it out of sight. It may not even be the Shipmodul mux, but as a start to help tighten the functional spec with the client, it's a reliable and straight forward solution to simply connect an iPad with INAVX, or pass data to a laptop or Windows tablet running Expedition.

 

3. Why two cigarette lighter jacks? USB connections are much more useful these days for charging devices.

WHL: look more closely, there are two charging USB ports near the cigarette lighter sockets. There are still some useful devices that still use cigarette lighter sockets e.g. The multiport USB charger you posted a pic of. Again, these are there to provide easy alternatives and contingencies. E.g. If for any reason the inverter has an issue, the cigarette ligter socket would allow using a small portable inverter.

 

4. Why all the hardwired PC connections? Is the PC going to be connected to all of that? Serial ports from the dark ages? That's a lot of spaghetti to the PC. Hardware with USB in a way that all data are available, or just use the wifi.

WHL: wifi is great and I have been an avid user for many years with different muxes. To me the issue is not an arbitrary aversion to spaghetti. Wire can be neat, fast, and direct, with minimal dependencies on a single device. It depends on how you use it. This arrangement is this way for numerous reasons, not least of which is redundancy/contingency. Assuming that the client likes the B&G Triton and ZEUS 2 backbone, and all of those instruments' great features, why would he really need any other nav device? For backup. So... What's a cost effective and very functional solution for 90% of coastal or near shore nav? INAVX. What does it take to get data off the N2K backbone? A simple solution could be the Actisense N2K-N0183 bi drectional bridge. However, an Ipad needs to be fed via Wifi. For redundency, you will need a mux to take inputs from a GPS, AIS, sensors, etc and stream it via wifi. If however, the client wants to use something other than an Ipad, and kill two birds, he could go with something like this which I have been running for the last year in parallel with INAVX for functional testing: Microsoft Surface Pro2" full Windows 8.1 Pro, detachable, backlit keyboard (can be secured to nav station), 4port USB hub, wireless Logitech Trackball (velcroed to a nav station), USB cable to mux, or USB to Actinsense bridge, depending on contingency. That setup gives the equivalent of a full windows, but small, PC at the Nav station. By connecting the Surface Pro to the Wifi mux, disconnecting the USB hub and keyboard, the Surface Pro gives access to Expedition anywhere on the boat. It comes down to the client's preference. He can either go Inavx, or full function nav and weather routing with Expedition without only sitting at the nav station.

 

5. Satellite phones are obsolete quickly. Use an Iridium Go unit that allows connecting any cell phone/computer to the satellite network over wifi. That little antenna on that phone will be useless--an external one is required for decent signal strength.

WHL: portable satelite phones still have value as a safety device you can take anywhere, without dependence on multiple devices to make contact. As much as I like the Iridium Go for its data connectivity, to make a voice connection relies on having a robust smart phone making a connection to the GO. For contingencies, it's a whole lot easier to grab the handheld from its cradle, and take it with you (with a spare high capacity battery in te ditch bag). Re: the external antenna, I guess you can't see the external antenna in that drawing connected to the Iridium docking bay with its data port and wifi Optimizer behind the panel??

 

6. Is there anything that B&G instrument display can do that the multifunction display can't do?

WHL: backup / contingency.

7. Is that an autopilot remote? I don't like remotes hanging on display panels.

WHL: it is the Triton AP portable remote sitting in a holder. Is that an arbitrary dislike or a functional one? It's there for ease of use when sitting at the nav station, and in case you want to be focused on somehing else on a display and need to change course. There will no doubt be another at or near the helm. There will be times when other less experienced crew are aboard, and I have found that many can easily relate to left and right buttons on a small remote than an unfamiliar and sometimes intimidating multifunction screen. Another tick in the safety column.

 

8. What is that SCS unit, audio? A bluetooth or wired connection to powered speakers from a phone/ipod is all anyone seems to use these days.

WHL: no it's not audio. It's a Pactor 4 modem for the SSB. The client wants SSB and to send/receive data, he will need a modem.

I didn't clutter this area with entertainment audio, only essential comms gear.

 

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Instead of the ShipModul bridge, consider the Vesper XB8000. AIS transceiver with built in WiFi and Bluetooth bridging to NMEA 0183 and/or 2000. And a very forward looking company (configure/update over WiFi, phone app, etc). I just a couple of days ago removed the ShipModul and replaced it with the Vesper - so I have a spare ShipModul :P . (But, doesn't the B&G already have WiFi?)

That is a neat unit and we looked at that when it came out for another project. The overall spec is not final, and there has been no disucssion yet on the pros and cons of a Class A or B transponder. At this juncture, that panel is more of a straw man to start the specs. I.e. First round of the spiral.

 

Btw, I would be interested in your old Shipmodul. Has it got the latest firmware update? Can you send a PM if it's still available. A friend is looking for a simple wifi mux solution for NMEA 0183.

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