Bob Perry

My newest project

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I used to have a nice old pair of Bauers. Somehow lost them. I think in the chaos of divorce. Now I have a pair of speed skates from Bont. But I don't skate often. I do think about it often, though.

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Lay it on us Bob.  Thread drift is what we do when we get bored waiting for an update.  :P

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1 hour ago, nroose said:

I used to have a nice old pair of Bauers. Somehow lost them. I think in the chaos of divorce. Now I have a pair of speed skates from Bont. But I don't skate often. I do think about it often, though.

Each of the Carbon Fibre Cutters should be required to have a pair of Bont speedskates aboard--they are beautiful carbon after all!

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9 hours ago, nroose said:

I used to have a nice old pair of Bauers. Somehow lost them. I think in the chaos of MARRIAGE . Now I have a pair of speed skates from Bont. But I don't skate often. I do think about it often, though.

Right? Sounds better

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Lots of you saying things like you are not playing anymore. I'm still playing and I finally made it to the NHL. Nursing Home League. Over 60. Have a player that is 77 playing with us yet.

Can't think of stopping. I'm just finally getting the hang of it.

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I am having withdrawal. Updates available?

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Red:

Not really. Too much noise here. My posts get quickly lost in the more important posts on ice skates etc. Makes it hard to follow the project. Not being a skater I have no interest in ice skates.

The short of it is as of last Wednesday:

No. 1 is back at its home slip in the San Juans. No. 2 is in the new paint booth in Bldg. No. 3 and should be painted by now. Hull No. 3 is still upside down getting the last of the interior panels and structure installed. No. 4 is in the early lam stages.

If you want a more detailed report on the project go to Facebook. Check out my fan club sight. There are over 1,800 members.  There is a lot of interest there and that format makes it easy for me to post a lot of photos. I post on four different sailing sights on FB. Once the thread is stated there is usually no noise. But there isn't anything going on right now that makes for exciting photos. When No. 2 gets out of the paint shed I'll take some snaps. I'll also get some snaps when they roll No. 3 over.

Thanks for your interest.

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Well Damn,  There went one of the last few reasons I still visit this site.  I DON'T do Facebook, so, Oh well and SO long

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Craig:

When I get some photos I think would interest you here I'll post them. As I said, nothing very photogenic has been going on lately. Much of you have already seen on hull No. 1.

I'll double check the most recent photos and see what I have.

Here are three showing the work inside hull no. 3. Structure is bonded in place then taped in with CF.

40563344584_e16b6c41a3_k.jpg002 by robert perry, on Flickr

39467892790_031cc5a169_k.jpg012 by robert perry, on Flickr

40381052085_3bb4987a2f_k.jpg009 by robert perry, on Flickr

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1 minute ago, Bob Perry said:

Craig:

When I get some photos I think would interest you here I'll post them. As I said, nothing very photogenic has been going on lately. Much of you have already seen on hull No. 1.

I'll double check the most recent photos and see what I have.

Will all 4 have white topsides?  I think the boat might look really nice (even moreso) in a dark hull.

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Monsoon:

Yes. In fact all four boats will have identical paint jobs. Not my call.

The dark hull idea went away in the very early days of the project. Then the idea was to have different wales stripe and bootstripe colors. But after hull No. 1 was launched the owner decided that was perfect and the rest will all look the same.

Kind of hard for me to imagine how you would arrive at that decision. No. 1 does look perfect, more or less,  but for me there is always perfecter. I'd like to explore different paint jobs.

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Thanks for the update, Bob.  Does the all the same ethos extend to gear and stuff?  If so, its a remarkable testament to the design you did, and the work the shop did, to get it so right on the first try.

SSB

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sshow bob:

Yes, to a great degree but there will be some small changes in gear I'm sure. Don;t know of any specific changes at this time. I'll ask.

Of course you know we are going all Lithium for the batteries on no. 2. That change was made months ago.

All credit for the success of the design has to be shared with the yard. They are responsible for all the mechanical and electrical systems. I'll take the credit for how the boat sails and how it looks. Probably should share that too.

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What do the chucks of cheese on the inside of the hull do? Snacks for the crew? That is an unusual incentive to progress with the work.

Looks like Tillamook Sharp White Cheddar to me.

Image result for Tillamook

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19 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Of course you know we are going all Lithium for the batteries on no. 2. That change was made months ago.

No concerns about lithium battery fires?

Seems to be a thing in phones & laptops & cars.

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Iron Lithum chemistry is slightly less efficient but much safer against runaway discharge. Betts and his gang built an electric car several years ago when the boat building got slow so the have 'been there and have the T-Shirt'.  Plenty of depth in that keel on top of the lead slugs and they should be safe down there. BMS circuits can isolate individual batteries if anything goes amiss. 

 

Lithium iron phosphate battery
Specific energy 90–110 Wh/kg (320–400 J/g or kJ/kg)
Energy density 220 Wh/L (790 kJ/L)
Specific power around 200 W/kg[1]
Energy/consumer-price 3.0–24 Wh/US$[2]
Time durability > 10 years
Cycle durability 2,000 cycles
Nominal cell voltage 3.2 V

The lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO
4
) battery
, also called LFP battery (with "LFP" standing for "lithium ferrophosphate"), is a type of rechargeable battery, specifically a lithium-ion battery, which uses LiFePO
4
 as a cathode material, and a graphitic carbon electrode with a metallic current collector grid as the anode. The specific capacity of LiFePO
4
 is higher than that of the related lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO
2
) chemistry, but its energy density is slightly lower due to its low operating voltage. The main problem of LiFePO
4
 is its low electrical conductivity. Therefore, all the LiFePO
4
 cathodes under consideration are actually LiFePO
4
/C.[3] Because of low-cost, low-toxicity, well-defined performance, long-term stability, etc. LiFePO
4
 is finding a number of roles in vehicle use and backup power.

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6 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Monsoon:

Yes. In fact all four boats will have identical paint jobs. Not my call.

The dark hull idea went away in the very early days of the project. Then the idea was to have different wales stripe and bootstripe colors. But after hull No. 1 was launched the owner decided that was perfect and the rest will all look the same.

Kind of hard for me to imagine how you would arrive at that decision. No. 1 does look perfect, more or less,  but for me there is always perfecter. I'd like to explore different paint jobs.

Certainly a good looking boat.  The wide cove stripe is very nice, but it is a lot of white so I just wondered how a dark hull would look.  And I like dark hulls. My boat is jet black.

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I hear you Monsoon. I'd love to see it black or very dark blue.: More in keeping with the classic type.

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One of the issues with Lithium Ion batteries in phones, laptops and cars is that packaging concerns drives them to being very densely packed, and thus harder to cool properly.  I'd guess (not having seen/done the install) that in this case, they've got a lot more room to insure adequate heat dissipation/cooling can occur...then that same dense packaging of the batteries can cause thermal runaway.  As soon as one of them overheats/catches fire, the adjacent ones, being so closely packed all catch fire, then a whole lot more adjacent to those catch fire, etc.  In a less densely packed environment, that threat/issue goes way down as well...

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Crash:

Good point. In our case we had dedicated  battery space under the main settees p&s for the standard batteries, which were relatively big. The Lithium batteries take up a fraction of that space and are far from "densely packed".

But there are always nay sayers. I have always focused on how to make things work not on why they won't work. I have confidence in our build team.

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2 hours ago, Crash said:

One of the issues with Lithium Ion batteries in phones, laptops and cars is that packaging concerns drives them to being very densely packed, and thus harder to cool properly.  I'd guess (not having seen/done the install) that in this case, they've got a lot more room to insure adequate heat dissipation/cooling can occur...then that same dense packaging of the batteries can cause thermal runaway.  As soon as one of them overheats/catches fire, the adjacent ones, being so closely packed all catch fire, then a whole lot more adjacent to those catch fire, etc.  In a less densely packed environment, that threat/issue goes way down as well...

Crash,

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries  are not the Lithium Ion chemistry batteries that are in cell phones, laptops and the rare self igniting Tesla (or hover boards or 787s). LiFePo batteries have much lower energy density while still having significantly more usable capacity than lead acid, gel or AGM (conventional storage batteries, if you will) and very high charge acceptance rates.  In addition, they have a very high cycle life and tolerate a wide temperature range during storage and a low self discharge rate.  

I adopted them for use in high power UPS' that spend a lot of time sitting around in a storage environment (unpowered) in extreme temp locations as SLA (AGM or gel) batteries needed monthly recharges and demonstrated a 3 year useful life before failing. We did extensive research into safety as these are installed in equipment routinely moved inside cargo aircraft.  installed with a proper BMS that detects cell to cell voltage differences, they are very safe and have a benign failure mode as a single failed cell won't cause massive overcharging of remaining cells. They don't actively burn but will support combustion if placed in a fire.  Fumes aren't deadly but you don't want top breath them either.  

Basically, I think they are a very good solution as long as they are treated as LiFePo batteries and not drop in replacement for Lead Acid.  I'm sure Betts is both knowledgeable and experienced and is doing their normal quality job.  

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12 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Crash,

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries  are not the Lithium Ion chemistry batteries that are in cell phones, laptops and the rare self igniting Tesla (or hover boards or 787s). LiFePo batteries have much lower energy density while still having significantly more usable capacity than lead acid, gel or AGM (conventional storage batteries, if you will) and very high charge acceptance rates.  In addition, they have a very high cycle life and tolerate a wide temperature range during storage and a low self discharge rate.  

I adopted them for use in high power UPS' that spend a lot of time sitting around in a storage environment (unpowered) in extreme temp locations as SLA (AGM or gel) batteries needed monthly recharges and demonstrated a 3 year useful life before failing. We did extensive research into safety as these are installed in equipment routinely moved inside cargo aircraft.  installed with a proper BMS that detects cell to cell voltage differences, they are very safe and have a benign failure mode as a single failed cell won't cause massive overcharging of remaining cells. They don't actively burn but will support combustion if placed in a fire.  Fumes aren't deadly but you don't want top breath them either.  

Basically, I think they are a very good solution as long as they are treated as LiFePo batteries and not drop in replacement for Lead Acid.  I'm sure Betts is both knowledgeable and experienced and is doing their normal quality job.  

Thanks IB!

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Yes - I was not aware that there were multiple technologies in Li batteries - I thought the big stuff in cars & boats were just giant cell phone batteries.

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In the consumer market, I am finding LiFePo batteries that look like AA's in some rechargeable LED landscape type lighting. I had one in my shed light, but it ended up being cheaper to replace the whole unit than find a suitable battery replacement (i.e., a 1.2v NiMH AA was not a drop in replacement, as the LiFePo's are closer in per cell voltage to a 3.7v Lithium ion cell phone battery.) The solar panel tuned to the LiFePo would have probably fried the NiMH pretty quick.

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Does anybody know who the manufacture is for the jack shaft driven alternator that is being used in this project?

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#2 all sitting outside all shiny looking.

IMG_20180917_133557079.jpg

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1 hour ago, hobot said:

#2 all sitting outside all shiny looking.

IMG_20180917_133557079.jpg

dang hobot , for a poster with your skills that's a mighty small pic :(

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Holy Crap, you're right and that's embarrassing! I was in the storage yard next door using my phone to take the pic and post it.

IMG_20180917_1335570792.jpg

Back at the office now...

Bett's yard, every flippin' boat sitting there is on my yes!! list. (thats Wall Street Ducks transom over on the right in the pic :)

I miss working on boats (sometimes).

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30 minutes ago, hobot said:

Holy Crap, you're right and that's embarrassing! I was in the storage yard next door using my phone to take the pic and post it.

IMG_20180917_1335570792.jpg

Back at the office now...

Bett's yard, every flippin' boat sitting there is on my yes!! list. (thats Wall Street Ducks transom over on the right in the pic :)

I miss working on boats (sometimes).

She looks lonely.

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You managed to miss getting my boat in the pic just to the right. She's not lonely. That's Blue to the left, there are at least four other boats in the parking lot not counting the 7 or 8 under construction inside. Betts is a busy place right now. 

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I didn't recognize it as your boat but I was digging it too, and there's Cassiopeia there too...any idea what that older boat that is out towards the street with the small house on it with tumblehome hull?

My head was spinning with all the cool boats around...

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*slight thread drift*

While I was in Anacortes I came across this cruiser...anyone know what this is?

 

IMG_20180917_1352211832.jpg

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Oh crud, I think you're right.

I first got sight of her from a bit of a distance away and thought it was one of Bob's kids... He's gonna make me wear the dunce cap and gown sit in the corner now.

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Cool design. Definitely has a Perry look about it in the bow 

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11 hours ago, hobot said:

I didn't recognize it as your boat but I was digging it too, and there's Cassiopeia there too...any idea what that older boat that is out towards the street with the small house on it with tumblehome hull?

My head was spinning with all the cool boats around...

The older boat towards the front is a Swan 40, one of the guys is restoring it. Cassiopeia is there for major repairs from a serious keel strike. My boat is the little trawler bought for PNW cruising - the sailboat was sailed down the coast home to SF a couple of weeks ago. 

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1 hour ago, DDW said:

The older boat towards the front is a Swan 40, one of the guys is restoring it. Cassiopeia is there for major repairs from a serious keel strike. My boat is the little trawler bought for PNW cruising - the sailboat was sailed down the coast home to SF a couple of weeks ago. 

Which yard is that?

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A little off topic, but this beauty was in the mooring field at Ayala cove with us this weekend;

IMG_4901

Is this a Baba 30? 

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20 hours ago, Kirwan said:

A little off topic, but this beauty was in the mooring field at Ayala cove with us this weekend;

IMG_4901

Is this a Baba 30? 

Is she stern-moored?

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2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Is she stern-moored?

Ayala Cove on Angel Island in SF Bay (a state park).  You grab 2 mooring balls, one fore and one aft. 

I've got my technique down (looong stern line), but watching others is great entertainment. 

Some young guys showed up in a 22 footer and swam the line to the second bouy - then swam ashore to go camping... in 60 degree water (15C). 

I'm not up on the various double enders, but this one looks like a Bob boat to me. 

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20 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Kir:

That's a Tayana 37.

Gorgeous design, Mr. P

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On 9/17/2018 at 10:36 PM, hobot said:

*slight thread drift*

While I was in Anacortes I came across this cruiser...anyone know what this is?

 

IMG_20180917_1352211832.jpg

Reminds me of a Seamaster, one of which was just beautifully restored here at a local yard in Houston. Wish i'd snapped a photo!

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I should have known that was one of Bob's designs, when I first saw the boat from the distance I thought of Loon.

Driving up in the lot the size of CAPAZ surprised me (that's a large Tollycraft Motor yacht on the right in the picture).

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On 9/19/2018 at 7:08 AM, TwoLegged said:

Is she stern-moored?

Here's another shot of that harbor, with my boat on the left:

42849373980_f3628f0620_c.jpg

Easier to see the fore and aft mooring in this one. 

That's Tiburon in the distance.

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Your boat looks great Kir.

 

Hull no. 2 is ready launch but they are having an intermittent engine problem. They may have to pull it and put in the engine for No. 3. Nice to have two "spare": engines.

 

In the interest of accuracy the Swan in the yard is a Swan 43, not a Swan 40. Neil Racicot at the yard will be transforming it into a family live aboard.

Pretty sure the big Tolly in that photo is in the next yard.

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CAPAZ and that Tollycraft are down in that newly setup waters edge gravel lot next to the Marine ServiceCenter yard.

(Some big toys there)

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13 hours ago, Kirwan said:

Here's another shot of that harbor, with my boat on the left:

42849373980_f3628f0620_c.jpg

Easier to see the fore and aft mooring in this one. 

That's Tiburon in the distance.

Why do you need the fore and aft moorings? There seems to be enough space for a boat per buoy. Is it a tide issue?

Here we only do it in narrow places.

800px-Mouillage_dans_le_Sound_de_CHausey

The tide ranges are big there (40ish feet on a spring tide) and there isn't much water left at low tide hence the fore and aft moorings, during the summer there are rafts of half a dozen boats! It works but it is a pain to be the first to catch the buoys with side winds, current is quite strong but more or less lined up with the line of buoys!

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Pano - This is the only place around here that does fore-aft mooring.  As mentioned, it's a state park and they make the rules (and charge to stay).  While we only get 6 foot (2m) tides, the passage between the island and mainland, 'Raccoon Strait', can have quite a bit of current; I've sailed backwards there.

Frankly, it's a bit annoying, as you don't swing to the wind, and often get waves on the beam. But it's a pretty spot. 

 

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