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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Bob Perry

My newest project

11,311 posts in this topic

This is the most bad ass looking boat I have seen in a long time, I just love it - every fucking thing. Damn RP has hit it out of the park with this.

 

 

you sly old fucker

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Crash:

Thanks for that research. I'll pass that along to my client. I'll give you credit.

 

Sailman:

I want a true outboard rudder. I like the look. I will find a way around the AP problem. AS bmu says a trim tab arrangement may be the best. We have plenty of time to solve this. I'm still fussing with the hull lines.

 

Kid:

Thanks a lot for those kind words. This hooker seems to be touching a lot of old nerves. That's exactly what I had in mind.

Bob Perry S.O.F.

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The rudder will be an outboard rudder as drawn. This was a client requirement. I'd have an inboard rudder myself. But as my very first client told me succinctly "It's not your boat Mr. Perry".

 

I'm working with an architect right now. "Can we get rid of the Crafstman look" , uh, no, that's what the wife likes...

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Credit should go to all of WYDLO rather than to me...There's so much good discussion in these threads that I'd bet the inspiration to look at those factors came from something someone else said...

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can this boat be build out sail-away for less than a mil? just wondering -

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ahl:

Bingo! Yep, I figured if Chuckles could do it I could do it better. As you correctly say, this has zero to do with the silly Brewer Bite and I should know. I'm the one who came up with that name.

 

GWB:

Can you post a pic of your ap arrangement please?

 

Twin engines:

I know you will get tired of hearing this but in the course of designing a custom boat it is my job to give the client what they want so long as it does not jeopardize the safety of the vessel. This client wants twin engines. I would be most happy to do a version for you with as many engines as you like. Make the check out to Bob Perry.

 

Kir:

Not sure what you call that kind of rudder heel. I'd just say the rudder is an outboard, semi balanced type with a heel support. We can call this rudder Reginald.

This gives you some idea. Obviously, both are not used at the same time. The hydraulic shown is version 1.0 It has evolved since then.

Please explain the huge aperture.

gallery_42142_1061_584846.jpg

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GWB:

I'm trying to whittle away at the "fulll keel". I want a balanced rudder and I want clean flow to it.

Than ks for that photo. That is the obvious solution and we may end up there. It's not very elegant. I'm quite an elegant guy.

 

Kind words Crash.

 

Flash:

I think of Baroque music performed on period instruments. Take the string instruments and their bow. The old bows were convex, like a bow, and this resulted in non consistent string tension along the bow strings. But it also gave it's own sound to the instrument. Then bows were "improved". They went concave and this meant the string tension along the bow was even. This is the bow everyone uses today. But some still want the authentic sound the way Bach heard it. That's kind of what I'm trying to do with the aesthetics of this boat. I'll tweak here and there, it's my nature, but I am fine with the shapes that came out of 1952. The old guys had this look down. Don;'t think I can really improve on it. Of course Bach didn't have to deal with an auto pilot.

 

Kid:

Not sure. I am pretty much eyeing one million. It will depend on a few things. If we go all carbon it will add about $40,000. If we go to Janeki for tooling it will add ?. Not sure what the "decor" below will be yet. I can't see it coming in any less than $875,000. Honestly, we have never discussed a finished price. Client has never brought it up.

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totally get it Bob, customer sets the brief. Like I told the architect, the wife wants craftsman. You've got to work with that.

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Another option to get a powerful drive without the telescopic seal (which is always problematic) would be to use a Jefa electric gear drive, these drive a rotating shaft to which a tiller arm is connected, thence to a drag link and the rudder. Starting with the Jefa drive under the deck and dry, extend the rotating shaft up through the deck somewhere near the tiller. A rotating shaft is pretty easy to seal well. Tiller arm goes on above the deck and seal, short drag link connects to the tiller (or a dedicated tiller arm). You could make the drag link disconnectable, though when the Jefa is declutched it has very little drag - almost unnoticeable. The Jefa drive in my boat is hell-for-strong, will chew up and spit out Raymarine drives all day. This would require a little custom work for the extension shaft and seal, but otherwise is a stock solution, and would not clutter that pretty transom.

 

 

post-4075-0-23094900-1423686806_thumb.jpg

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Crash:

I told my architect I wanted dark red formica counter tops in the kitchen with that old SS edge molding. Kind of the old diner look. My architect and my wife told me to go fuck myself. I got granite.

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DDW,

 

That is an interesting link and I have downloaded many 3d files from Jefa (very generous of them) in the past for some of Bob's projects and will have a closer look on their FTP site. Looks like for this boat the next size up in the series might be better suited due to the additional displacement. Here is a link to the DD2 unit.

 

http://www.jefa.com/steering/steering.htm

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Crash:

I told my architect I wanted dark red formica counter tops in the kitchen with that old SS edge molding. Kind of the old diner look. My architect and my wife told me to go fuck myself. I got granite.

 

Granite is for everybody else. You're Bob Perry, Bob.

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Actually, another positive thing about twin engines is that you can do a lot more motoring without 'aging' the engines. My cat had around 1400 hrs on each engine I think when I sold it. But I can guarantee that I had over 2200 hours under power! I just alternated them to keep the hours within 20- 30 hours of each other. When you get to a maintenance inflection point, then you do the oil/filter changes etc but they don't come as often as they would with a single engine.

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i suppose with 2 smaller diesels, if you're running just one, you're likely running it closer to a good working load. It's hard on our boat, which is pretty slippery, to run the engine the way diesels want to be run.

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DDW:

I like that. Could it connect to the tiler itself?

 

Yes. Easiest if it was offset a bit to allow for the drag link, might be possible directly under the tiller with a bit of thought (that would not use any afterdeck space and would be effectively hidden). I assume you would still want to be able to lift the tiller out of the way, stuff like that. My initial thought would be to incorporate a little tiller arm as part of the usual tiller head directly underneath the tiller that the drag link would connect to and would stay in place if the tiller was lifted. That avoids some problems and also allows the autopilot to steer with the tiller tilted up and out of the way of the cockpit which would be kind of neat. The rudder position sensor could go under the deck on the drive arm and be dry.

 

They make several sizes, I think on a nice steering boat even the smallest size would work. You were going to design a nice steering boat, right? I have the larger size on mine, it will run the rudder over to stall at 12 knots surfing and break your arms doing it if they are in the way without complaint - and you've seen my rudder!

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i suppose with 2 smaller diesels, if you're running just one, you're likely running it closer to a good working load. It's hard on our boat, which is pretty slippery, to run the engine the way diesels want to be run.

 

If it's propped right you should be able to run 80% throttle and deliver proper load to the engines...I do agree, running two engines at once would be a bad idea, but I don't think that was ever the intent.

 

I get the feeling that the client is a pretty sharp guy. I doubt we are teaching much withy this engine discussion, but I'm learning a few things.

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ahl:

Bingo! Yep, I figured if Chuckles could do it I could do it better. As you correctly say, this has zero to do with the silly Brewer Bite and I should know. I'm the one who came up with that name.

 

GWB:

Can you post a pic of your ap arrangement please?

 

Twin engines:

I know you will get tired of hearing this but in the course of designing a custom boat it is my job to give the client what they want so long as it does not jeopardize the safety of the vessel. This client wants twin engines. I would be most happy to do a version for you with as many engines as you like. Make the check out to Bob Perry.

 

Kir:

Not sure what you call that kind of rudder heel. I'd just say the rudder is an outboard, semi balanced type with a heel support. We can call this rudder Reginald.

On the Island Packets they call you that this sort of rudder heel arrangement a "lobster strap". It keeps lobster / crab pot lines, kelp and weeds from getting caught in the prop. Seems to work like a charm

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No lobsters here Py. We should call it the Geoduck smasher. ( pronounced "gooey duck)

 

Lotsa crab traps, however. Crab strap?

 

Having dug for Geoduck, I'd say you need a drilling rig to really mash them. Them suckers go deep.

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We could call that keel extension back to the rudder heel the 'Chastity Strut' because without it you might get f__cked!

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My vote us with Raspers. My boat now officially has a chastity strap.

 

I watched a Dirty Jobs episode on Geo Ducks a little while ago. First guy to eat one must have been drunk, starving or maybe both.

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My tiller pierces the transom and gives me a sort of part open lazarette where the ap ram lives. Then the hoses go below through a gland .

The electrics are bone dry, I'm happy with it , its powerful,concealed and it works . lecomble and schmidt drive.

 

don't know if this is uesful,,,found this pic anyway..the drive gets dusty..

 

241_4200_1.jpg

 

.

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Just this one bad shot Bob, ( I was just looking for it).

 

a stainless fabrication for tiller head that comes through the transom under the 'lazarette deck' ( about a foot of it) and that's what the tiller sockets into.

 

241_4196_1.jpg

 

The boat started life as tiller , was converted to wheel ( which is why there is a rudder reference) and now is back to tiller.

 

evidentally I don't take photos of the inside of my cockpit for some reason, this is one I found for context. I might be going to build that all in...

 

100_1231_1.jpg

 

.

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I need to stare at that a while JBE. Many thanks. I can;t see the part of the tiller that moves. Am I missing it? What's the little arm underneath?

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James:

My hope is that with the big, semi balanced rudder and twin engines this boat will not need a thruster. But I can;t guarantee anything having never designed a boat like this or operated a boat like this. I would not like it to be a "crapshoot". If my inclinations are correct it will be a docile and compliant boat under power in either direction.

 

Ed:

Thanks muchly. I'm pretty bored with the current range of production boats. I want to do boats that catch the eye and make a statement of their own. If I have to borrow from tradition to do that then I will but at the same time add my own twist to try and get the performance as good as possible by today's standards. I have a set of lines but I fear the boat is a bit too portly right now. I need to put it on a diet. I have an interior layout so I now know what I need in terms of volume. I'll go back and take another whack at the hull shape and see if I can trim some fat. FWIW, using an 8% thickness ratio on that keel I get almost 7,000 lbs. of disp just in the keel. WHL and I did some foil research and settled on the NACA 64-A008 foil.

Real men don't need no stinking thruster! Love the gorgeous lines, kudos to the owner for knowing what he wants and knowing the right Maestro to turn concept into reality. The idea of sailing offshore is to sail mostly so smaller engines for charging, motor sailing when necessary using one at a time makes a lot of sense. Really excited to follow this project

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I need to stare at that a while JBE. Many thanks. I can;t see the part of the tiller that moves. Am I missing it? What's the little arm underneath?

 

The big upside down U stainless piece is driven by the hydraulic cylinder to starboard. The little thingy is the rudder position sensor.

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I need to stare at that a while JBE. Many thanks. I can;t see the part of the tiller that moves. Am I missing it? What's the little arm underneath?

The little arm is the rudder reference ( because it has a wheel steering 'computer'.)

The rudder bearings are all on the outside of the transom but in tight , so that slot you see accommodates the 35 degrees each side needed for movement.You see the stops there for the the tiller head fitting?

I must have a better pic somewhere.

 

I don't !! there's this of the stern

 

IMG_4332_4.jpg

 

Top bearing then the ' tiller head ' being the other end of what we see inside below that and through the cutout in the transom.

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Bob - the pic is playing tricks if your eyes did what mine did. that stainless channel "IS" the tiller. It's not mounted to a solid bulkhead, that bright shiny stuff to the left of the channel isn't a stainless plate (that what my eyes saw) but it's an opening in the transom.

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That's elegant JBE, just put the rudder head under cover and it's all good.

No chance of water reaching the bilges through a transom slot, no need for a gasket.

Your boat is a Laurie Davidson isn't it? Is this his solution or the original builders?

Gas bottle storage too! Is there an outboard drain through the transom at floor level?

I guess there must be if the cockpit floor runs all the way through the covered lazarette.

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JBE

 

I like that...nice clean installation with beefy stops either side. It wouldn't be too hard to make some sort of water seal if it was ever a concern, make it poop proof

 

Not sure why you have a below cockpit entertainment system (speaker) but to each his own :)

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Not sure why you have a below cockpit entertainment system (speaker) but to each his own :)

 

It's to relay commands to the gas bottle, "Full ahead, burner 1".

 

 

Edit: sorry, stupid comment, like the boat design :)

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Actually, another positive thing about twin engines is that you can do a lot more motoring without 'aging' the engines. My cat had around 1400 hrs on each engine I think when I sold it. But I can guarantee that I had over 2200 hours under power! I just alternated them to keep the hours within 20- 30 hours of each other. When you get to a maintenance inflection point, then you do the oil/filter changes etc but they don't come as often as they would with a single engine.

 

 

If you have the discipline to fill the fuel tanks from different sources...you pretty much have a bulletproof a system as can be put together.

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Crash:

I told my architect I wanted dark red formica counter tops in the kitchen with that old SS edge molding. Kind of the old diner look. My architect and my wife told me to go fuck myself. I got granite.

 

Over the years we architects learn to go with the wife. Beautiful boat Bob but I wonder what you would have done without the full keel mandate.

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Very nice solution on that rudder. Working parts are accessible but under cover and sensitive items are below and dry. How much up and down movement do you have on the tiller? One of the nice things I like about tiller boats is moving the till vertical in port but also being able to move it up while maneuvering.

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... How much up and down movement do you have on the tiller? One of the nice things I like about tiller boats is moving the till vertical in port but also being able to move it up while maneuvering.

 

+1 My tiller only has limited vertical movement which is a bit of a pain at times...

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I'm not quite that far along yet. I have a 6" high bulwark so my vertical range for the tiller will be limited unless I can do some kind of "scoop: on the lower edge to give me more range. All in good time. I was wondering how important that really was. You guys have convinced me its important.

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JBE, IMO that is an amazingly simple way to accommodate the semi balanced stern hung rudder. Very K1W1 I'd say.

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Vertical movement?? Can someone fill me in as to why this is desirable??

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Vertical movement?? Can someone fill me in as to why this is desirable??

 

For one thing, it gives you the option of either sitting down or standing up while comfortably holding the tiller...

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Also, if you can't move the tiller up and down it just gets in the way more. As you change tacks and change sides it's nice to be able to lift the tiller up so you can slide under it. Same technique you use sailing any dinghy. If the tiller does not hinge up it is in the way too much of the time.

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Got it...there has to be a way to build in a robust (yet elegant) hinge/knuckle in the tiller ahead of the obstruction.

 

OT...Is there a point where the size of the boat dictates that the mechanical advantage of a wheel is a necessity?

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Gate: It's been done before. But you want as few moving parts in that linkage as possible. You wheel steering guys will never know the delicious feel of a well mounted tiller on a big boat. No Knuckle joint.

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"Give me a place to stand and with a lever I will move the whole world." - Archimedes. (Apocryphal)

 

Admittedly, the original did convert to wheel. A tiller's a bit too much like manual labour for a king, even if he did go sailing with his grocer.

 

221 tons, 120' LOA, sparred length 170'.

 

 

UK-Yacht-Britannia-Arrives-at-South-Boat

 

being-tugged.jpg

 

First-class_rater_Britannia.2.jpg

 

400px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-13720,_Cowes

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I know the Gunboat cats have their saildrives mounted at something like a 30 or 40 deg angle from vertical. Pretty normal to the hull surface.

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I did two more versions of the hull lines yesterday and managed to get 3,160 lbs. out of the displ. I lost some cabin sole but mostly aft where it will have little effect. I may go back to the heavier shape. Just don't know right now. My gut tells me to go lighter. My heart tells me to stay heavy.

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I have a task for the WLYDO. I need to fin d a manual anchor windlass big enough for this boat. Figure 35,000 lbs displ and 43; LOA. The Lofrans looks great but it's too small. I'd prefer something that did not loom too "agricultural".

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Wilmex?

 

http://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/winde-winch-und-spill/ankerwinde-und-spill/handankerwinden-und-spills/2-gang-yacht-handankerwinde-wilmex

 

 

Heavy and robust two gear anchor winch made from high-strength seawater resistant cast brass for yachts and ships of up to a length of 20m.

The driving mechanism is operated by a strong handle via a mechanical transmission system. This gear drive and all axles are made from stainless steel. In the fast gear a hoisting speed of 9m/min is possible (at 60 double travels this amounts to 6,5 double travel per metre). With a gear ratio of 10:1 a traction force of 500kg is possible to achieve. The transmission is doubled in the power gear, the hoisting speed is reduced to 2,80 m/min (this amounts to 14 double travel per metre).
This is achieved by switching one bolt to change the handle unit between speed gear and power gear.
The solid telescopic handle, made from bronze tubing D=40mm, total length 0,80m, also activates the brake nut.
On the port side of the winch a strong capstan head (diameter 115mm) is fitted, which can be used for all kinds of traction work.
The powerful body is open on the aft end for maintenance and lubrication.
A heavy cleat on top of the housing is extremely useful.
Weight with handle: 42kg.
Dimensions: base: 307 x 180mm, overall width: 350mm, height (with cleat) 265mm.
Available with a chainwheel for chain according to DIN766A 10mm or 13mm.

 

1268002.JPG1268002B.JPG

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If pretty counts...that's pretty!!

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Ed:

Wow! I'll look into that. It will make the clients eyes light up. He wants bronze ports.

Many thanks.

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Just speculation, but my guess is he will admire the assault on his wallet as well. That is a bespoke windlass for a bespoke boat.

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We'll deal with the price in due time.

For now I just checked my deck plan. I had faked a shape of a windlass by eye as a "place keeper" until I had a spec. I looked at the dimensions of the Toplicht and you would not believe how close my eyeballed shape comes to the actual dims. I am less than a .5" off anywhere. I love it when I amaze myself.

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Wilmex?

 

http://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/winde-winch-und-spill/ankerwinde-und-spill/handankerwinden-und-spills/2-gang-yacht-handankerwinde-wilmex

 

 

Heavy and robust two gear anchor winch made from high-strength seawater resistant cast brass for yachts and ships of up to a length of 20m.

The driving mechanism is operated by a strong handle via a mechanical transmission system. This gear drive and all axles are made from stainless steel. In the fast gear a hoisting speed of 9m/min is possible (at 60 double travels this amounts to 6,5 double travel per metre). With a gear ratio of 10:1 a traction force of 500kg is possible to achieve. The transmission is doubled in the power gear, the hoisting speed is reduced to 2,80 m/min (this amounts to 14 double travel per metre).
This is achieved by switching one bolt to change the handle unit between speed gear and power gear.
The solid telescopic handle, made from bronze tubing D=40mm, total length 0,80m, also activates the brake nut.
On the port side of the winch a strong capstan head (diameter 115mm) is fitted, which can be used for all kinds of traction work.
The powerful body is open on the aft end for maintenance and lubrication.
A heavy cleat on top of the housing is extremely useful.
Weight with handle: 42kg.
Dimensions: base: 307 x 180mm, overall width: 350mm, height (with cleat) 265mm.
Available with a chainwheel for chain according to DIN766A 10mm or 13mm.

 

1268002.JPG1268002B.JPG

Lofrans seems to have a good rep on the message boards and forums. The two speed option on the Wilmix is nice but is it worth the $pend?

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Just spoke to client. He is back to an electric windlass. Just as I had that pretty one all drawn in! I think electric makes more sense.

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Just spoke to client. He is back to an electric windlass. Just as I had that pretty one all drawn in! I think electric makes more sense.

 

Ah, progress!

 

Now, about that full keel... :)

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Just spoke to client. He is back to an electric windlass. Just as I had that pretty one all drawn in! I think electric makes more sense.

 

Ah, progress!

 

Now, about that full keel... :)

 

Manual keels are reliable and *almost* never fail underway.

 

The owner/client might be talked into an electric (k)eel yet...

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Just spoke to client. He is back to an electric windlass. Just as I had that pretty one all drawn in! I think electric makes more sense.

 

 

I had a manual windlass...smart man.

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Just remember simple, Bob. Simple! None of that fancy modern stuff on this boat.

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I did two more versions of the hull lines yesterday and managed to get 3,160 lbs. out of the displ. I lost some cabin sole but mostly aft where it will have little effect. I may go back to the heavier shape. Just don't know right now. My gut tells me to go lighter. My heart tells me to stay heavy.

 

We're all kidding about it but as you mention the keel volume is 7000 lbs. There are plenty of ways to build a stout fin keel. If it's a choice between interior volume and keel volume, which just slows down the boat, the choice seems clear. And there's no aesthetic penalty here, the keel's under water.

 

I like heavy boats and to me heavy is not slow. Slow to accelerate and decelerate, but not slow once at speed. Is the owner balking at 37,000 lbs? Is there any reason to go lighter other than to lessen some wetted surface area that's shot to hell because of the keel anyway?

 

I understand and appreciate tradition and love every other aspect of the design but I think that a full keel doesn't represent a worthwhile tradeoff. It's a big price for the rudder protection it provides.

 

These of course are only my thoughts. You'll notice Quail has a fin keel.

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That's elegant JBE, just put the rudder head under cover and it's all good.

No chance of water reaching the bilges through a transom slot, no need for a gasket.

Your boat is a Laurie Davidson isn't it? Is this his solution or the original builders?

Gas bottle storage too! Is there an outboard drain through the transom at floor level?

I guess there must be if the cockpit floor runs all the way through the covered lazarette.

 

Yes there's drains at cockpit level Olaf, they'll suck some water when the boat is being driven hard but its not really an issue.

The tiller is fixed angle but there's nothing to stop me having an extra pivot point built into the fitting If I wanted to lift it . Actually I like it as it is because I have one of those adjustable spinlock tiller extensions. Being fixed it means that I can haul on that at pretty much any angle and none of the effort is diffused into the tiller lifting. Plus it seems to be at the 'right' height for either being on the cockpit seat , or on the coaming , or standing using the extension.

 

Another advantage with the setup and which I've come to like , is that the whole tiller just pulls out to clear the cockpit for a party or for a table at anchor , and I have two tillers , one sailing , one shorter one for motoring / gunkholing around the bays etc.

Thats turned out to be quite useful .

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I did two more versions of the hull lines yesterday and managed to get 3,160 lbs. out of the displ. I lost some cabin sole but mostly aft where it will have little effect. I may go back to the heavier shape. Just don't know right now. My gut tells me to go lighter. My heart tells me to stay heavy.

 

We're all kidding about it but as you mention the keel volume is 7000 lbs. There are plenty of ways to build a stout fin keel. If it's a choice between interior volume and keel volume, which just slows down the boat, the choice seems clear. And there's no aesthetic penalty here, the keel's under water.

 

I like heavy boats and to me heavy is not slow. Slow to accelerate and decelerate, but not slow once at speed. Is the owner balking at 37,000 lbs? Is there any reason to go lighter other than to lessen some wetted surface area that's shot to hell because of the keel anyway?

 

I understand and appreciate tradition and love every other aspect of the design but I think that a full keel doesn't represent a worthwhile tradeoff. It's a big price for the rudder protection it provides.

 

These of course are only my thoughts. You'll notice Quail has a fin keel.

 

If you ever intend to sail in Down East Maine a full keel will set you free. Literally!

I love sailing a full keel through great masses of lobster pots with no worries. I call full keel boats 'shedders' for that reason.

Also, if designed properly, performance does not suffer with a full keel. Helps to have a Burgess or Stephens though.

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JBE

 

 

 

Not sure why you have a below cockpit entertainment system (speaker) but to each his own :)

 

Well Gates, as the last kid is off to Uni, " we are the people our parents warned us about".......

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It will help a lot more to have a Perry Chippin. It is 2015.

 

I've done good sailing full keel boats but I won't say that performance "will not suffer". There is no question that a fin keel is superior for all round performance. So long as there isn't a lobster pot hanging off it.

 

kdh:

In this case the boat has a full keel because that's what the client asked for. I did have a short discussion with him about alternative keels but I didn't get far. Now I have to do my best to make sure that big, low aspect ratio fin works well. But I know most of the tricks and I will use them. Starting with that swept leading edge. Aspect ratio and LE sweep go together. Or use the quarter chord if that's more comfortable for you. Even Donn's FD35 pilot house model with a brute of a Perry full keel held it's own and better the time we raced it. I will use this keel volume to sink some fuel tanks down in the middle of the boat where the weight is out of the ends and down low. All my skills, all my powers.

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All my skills, all my powers.

 

Are you going to stuff Sonny Corleone into that keel cavity? :D

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Bob, in this case I don't see the benefit in reducing weight by taking away interior volume. Let the boat be heavy and enjoy the advantages that come with that. Nothing wrong with a brute.

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kdh:

I'm thinking the same thing. But I'm working on some joiner sections now and looking at what I have given up and it's not very much that matters. Not seeing any real trade off at this stage and I know better then to BS myself in these matters.

 

Jon:

Good catch. I wondered if anyone would get that.

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All my skills, all my powers.

 

Are you going to stuff Sonny Corleone into that keel cavity? :D

 

Might already be full with Jimmy Hoffa. What do we know about this client beyond "He is a successful businessman."

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For the amateur of a long keel boat, the alternative of cutting it short came to me when I saw the van de Stadt designed Delta. I think it has merits in carrying the heel of the rudder and protecting the propeller, while cutting down the displacement and wetted surface. Cost savings. The approach is shown in the drawing of a 36' fast (for a long keel boat) cruiser.

 

215spl.pdf

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Pretty much what I had in mind Yves-Marie but I'm not keel on that sloped tailing edge. What kind of thickness ratio would you work with on a keel like that?

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If you're going to suffer with a full keel, make sure the bottom is flat so you can dry her out against a pier.

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Just spoke to client. He is back to an electric windlass. Just as I had that pretty one all drawn in! I think electric makes more sense.

He can still go for a large lump of bronze.

 

big_EAW-001.jpg?lm=1386794916

 

big_EAW-002.jpg?lm=1386794918

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There isn't enough room between the forestays to tack the jib. It would help to move the inner forestay aft by a foot or so.

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Sav.

Thanks. The inner forestay is removable. Staysail will be on hanks. You may not be aware but this is not my first cutter. Valiant 40 was designed in 1973.

 

Elegua:

Not sure how I'll treat the bottom of the keel yet. I need a few more dog walks on that issue Flat does not appeal to me a this time.

 

Ed:

That's not so pretty. I think w can do better than that if we go electric. At half the price too.

 

I'd be curious as to what the group thought the e best windlass for this boat would be.

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For the amateur of a long keel boat, the alternative of cutting it short came to me when I saw the van de Stadt designed Delta. I think it has merits in carrying the heel of the rudder and protecting the propeller, while cutting down the displacement and wetted surface. Cost savings. The approach is shown in the drawing of a 36' fast (for a long keel boat) cruiser.

 

 

It seems how to shape the aft cutaway on the keel comes down to how much the rudder is supported by the keel and how much the keel protects the rudder. The common wisdom seems to be that with carbon fiber even a naked spade is quite strong.

 

Good thing no one is insisting on a skeg.

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kdh:

If I had my way I'd add about 20" of overhang aft and tuck that rudder under the counter as a nice spade rudder. Then I'd clean up the keel.

But, it's not my boat.

 

Yes, that Muir looks great on your boat. Not sure about this boat though. Maybe a Lighthouse type.

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I like the low profile Lewmar windlass on GK, but in keeping with the look of the boat the more traditional "lighthouse" (I've never heard that before :) ) is probably a good choice. I have never used one, but I suspect they work better than the low profile design.

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KDH What make windlass is that? Very nice looking.

 

I ran across something quite similar while googling "Lunenburg Foundry windlass" but there was nothing that established the link between the pic and the foundry.

 

post-37611-0-26571100-1423840415.jpg

 

I bet, with the whole of the WYLDO googling windlasses, web stats will be out of whack for a while

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The Perry effect! :D

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I have remote dual redundant voice activated windlasses on my boat. I call them "crew". Some come in very attractive packaging.

 

I'm loving following these WLYDO threads. I like seeing how these projects come together. I'm pretty sure if I ever attempted to design a boat we'd quickly see it on the "mocking ads" thread.

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I have remote dual redundant voice activated windlasses on my boat. I call them "crew". Some come in very attractive packaging.

I have one like that as well. problem is that the windlass gets grumpy and opinionated if it takes a few tries to get the anchor to set properly.

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I love this windlass but mostly because it fits the style of my boat.

 

814_lg.jpg

Made and owned in Tasmania as well, just up the road.

 

They make a good range of electric winches for pleasure and fishing boats.

 

Good rep around here.

 

My iPad has stopped pasting, Google Muir Winches

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I love this windlass but mostly because it fits the style of my boat.

 

814_lg.jpg

Made and owned in Tasmania as well, just up the road.

 

They make a good range of electric winches for pleasure and fishing boats.

 

Good rep around here.

 

My iPad has stopped pasting, Google Muir Winches

 

 

So far mine has given me flawless service. Hinckley recommend them.

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The only electric windlass I could find with a real manual backup was the Maxwell Liberty 2500. Some others pay lip service but it isn't anything you are going to be able to use. On the other hand, mine has worked perfectly and I have never needed the manual backup.....

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I'm tellin' ya, I'll be gone! Coming up last week of the month to crack the whip!

 

Check the Maxwell Liberty though. Claimed 2500 lb pull, and it doesn't look distinctly modern (nor antique). There is a 5:1 gear ratio cranked with a winch handle. Most of the competition are essentially direct drive in that mode. There is a version without the capstan as well.

 

post-4075-0-96983600-1423895255_thumb.jpg

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DDW:

Sure you'll be gone.

 

I like that windlass. It has the look I am after and the client will like that it has a manual option. Thanks for posting that.

 

Seems the Liberty series is discontinued! The VWC series is similar but no manual option.

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The VWC 3500 we have on our boat claims to have a manual option, but it's a complete joke - direct pull with a flimsy aluminum breaker bar. Tried it once when the pin on the drive motor sheared off and nearly bent the factory-supplied manual handle. Maybe with a stainless bar, but found it was easier just tying a line to the chain and taking it to a big winch rather than picking around with the windlass once it lost power.

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I like that windlass. It has the look I am after and the client will like that it has a manual option. Thanks for posting that.

 

Seems the Liberty series is discontinued! The VWC series is similar but no manual option.

 

Crap. Seems like everything I like gets discontinued.

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