Bob Perry

My newest project

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Victor:

I took up two cases of wine at Christmas time and as I recall there were 22 guys there at that time. There could be a couple more now.

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Victor:

I took up two cases of wine at Christmas time and as I recall there were 22 guys there at that time. There could be a couple more now.

Well yeah, they probably showed up when they heard there were two bottles of free wine left.

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Hunter:

OK, I see your point. When I get the nerve to post the newest project I'll start another thread. That will avoid confusion.

 

Uh oh, I smell an Origami boat design.... :P

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Hunter:

OK, I see your point. When I get the nerve to post the newest project I'll start another thread. That will avoid confusion.

 

Uh oh, I smell an Origami boat design.... :P

 

Or a tripple ender, maybe? :unsure:

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Geez Bob, you get too many more projects going and you might as well get yourself an office to drive to again!

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Hobs:

I have been working pretty much 7 days a week. Maybe one weekend day partially off. But what else am I going to do? Can't dance! It's not so bad. I have some very good clients. Next Saturday I am going to the Skagit Valley Opera in Mount Vernon. Bellini's NORMA. A whole afternoon to relax.

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Bob went from musician to yacht designer; its not like he ever had a job.

 

When you are doing something this fun, it stops being a job.

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It looks good! Will all the mechanicals go in prior to the lid going on the box?

 

Kim, our hull and deck are glassed together, no leaks since we've owned it.

 

Yup, FRANCIS' hull and deck are now one piece thanks to tabbing. One piece items do not leak unless you drill a hole in them.

(Makes the whole boat really stiff too.)

Yep. That's how they made my boat, back in 1970.

 

 

And then they drilled holes through the joint every 12" to attach the aluminum channel for the rub rail, with sheet metal screws, just so that it would always leak. Wouldn't wanna be too uppity. Next time it's on the hard and I have a week to kill, that's all getting epoxied. Or deleted.

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Toddster:

Exactly. One of my current custom boat clients wanted an alu toe rail. I explained to him that after working so hard to get a seamless bond at the deck edge it made no sense to then drill holes through it. He went along. Now we are even doing internal, carbon stanchion bases that require no holes to be drilled.

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I want to give a shout out this morning to Neil Racicot who works at the Betts yard. Neil is a ttrue boatbuilder who has worked for some of the best yartds in Maine. He is a seasoned sailor and a great guy. He also is comfortable with the elements of yacht design and he takes my 2D drawings and translates them into 3D images. His 3D images will then go to Steve who then prepares the files for the CNC machine. So while I like to think I produce good, detailed drawinfs, today with a quality builder of custom boats it takes more than 2D to make all the build elements work.

 

I asked Neil to send me some examples of the interior layout modeling he has done. I think you will be impressed.

neil%201_zpswhjerebs.jpg

neil%202_zpsov2nucau.jpg

neil%203_zpso6cawld2.jpg

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It looks good! Will all the mechanicals go in prior to the lid going on the box?

 

Kim, our hull and deck are glassed together, no leaks since we've owned it.

Yup, FRANCIS' hull and deck are now one piece thanks to tabbing. One piece items do not leak unless you drill a hole in them.

(Makes the whole boat really stiff too.)

 

Kim, you make it sound like the tabbing was a refit rather than as-built.

 

If so, I'm curious how this was done as well.

 

Briefly, I've read where some people have done the following:

- Remove say 3 out of every 4 bolts to keep the deck and toe rail in place.

- Tab in between remaining bolts from the inside.

- Remove stanchions and remaining bolts and toe rail.

- Glass outer join

- Tab in remaining gaps on inside

 

Does this sound about right?

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It looks good! Will all the mechanicals go in prior to the lid going on the box?

 

Kim, our hull and deck are glassed together, no leaks since we've owned it.

Yup, FRANCIS' hull and deck are now one piece thanks to tabbing. One piece items do not leak unless you drill a hole in them.

(Makes the whole boat really stiff too.)

 

Kim, you make it sound like the tabbing was a refit rather than as-built.

 

If so, I'm curious how this was done as well.

 

Briefly, I've read where some people have done the following:

- Remove say 3 out of every 4 bolts to keep the deck and toe rail in place.

- Tab in between remaining bolts from the inside.

- Remove stanchions and remaining bolts and toe rail.

- Glass outer join

- Tab in remaining gaps on inside

 

Does this sound about right?

 

 

I think what Kim is saying is that the hull and deck were built separately, then glassed together. It definitely isn't a refit, it was designed in from the get-go.

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Ish:

That is correct. Same as the carbon cutters. The plan fro the start was this treatment of the hull to deck "joint" I don't even lie to call it a "joint" when it's done this way.

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I want to give a shout out this morning to Neil Racicot who works at the Betts yard. Neil is a ttrue boatbuilder who has worked for some of the best yartds in Maine. He is a seasoned sailor and a great guy. He also is comfortable with the elements of yacht design and he takes my 2D drawings and translates them into 3D images. His 3D images will then go to Steve who then prepares the files for the CNC machine. So while I like to think I produce good, detailed drawinfs, today with a quality builder of custom boats it takes more than 2D to make all the build elements work.

 

I asked Neil to send me some examples of the interior layout modeling he has done. I think you will be impressed.

neil%201_zpswhjerebs.jpg

neil%202_zpsov2nucau.jpg

neil%203_zpso6cawld2.jpg

 

Very cool stuff but you need to spend some time with him about colour selection Bob. ;)

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I love my aluminum toe rail and it doesn't leak (yet) but I do cringe when I look up from below and see all those fasteners through the joint. Bob, have you or Jim Betts thought about how to get something similar on a carbon boat without violating the integrity of the joint? I could see molding one in CF but that'd presumably be a huge PITA. How about molding a CF slot around the periphery of the deck and sliding a standard aluminum rail into it sans fasteners?

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Hal and Margaret Roth fiberglassed the deck-to-hull joint on their yacht "Whisper" after dealing with severe leaks.

 

Their book explains the procedure

 

The yacht was quite new.

 

I wonder whether it can be done with polyester resin in poly hulls

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I love my aluminum toe rail and it doesn't leak (yet) but I do cringe when I look up from below and see all those fasteners through the joint. Bob, have you or Jim Betts thought about how to get something similar on a carbon boat without violating the integrity of the joint? I could see molding one in CF but that'd presumably be a huge PITA. How about molding a CF slot around the periphery of the deck and sliding a standard aluminum rail into it sans fasteners?

Great idea, IStream.

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Streamer: I think that would be difficult but not impossible. Maybe you could pump some epoxy in when the toe rail is in place.

 

Pleny: I don' know why that would not work. It was a standard way to join quality hull and decks together before epoxy was common.

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Hal and Margaret Roth fiberglassed the deck-to-hull joint on their yacht "Whisper" after dealing with severe leaks.

 

Their book explains the procedure

 

The yacht was quite new.

 

I wonder whether it can be done with polyester resin in poly hulls

 

Poly resin works fine on cured poly resin, it just doesn't have as strong a secondary bond as epoxy.

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It looks good! Will all the mechanicals go in prior to the lid going on the box?

 

Kim, our hull and deck are glassed together, no leaks since we've owned it.

Yup, FRANCIS' hull and deck are now one piece thanks to tabbing. One piece items do not leak unless you drill a hole in them.

(Makes the whole boat really stiff too.)

 

Kim, you make it sound like the tabbing was a refit rather than as-built.

 

If so, I'm curious how this was done as well.

 

 

Briefly, I've read where some people have done the following:

- Remove say 3 out of every 4 bolts to keep the deck and toe rail in place.

- Tab in between remaining bolts from the inside.

- Remove stanchions and remaining bolts and toe rail.

- Glass outer join

- Tab in remaining gaps on inside

 

Does this sound about right?

 

No, the boat was designed from day one to have the deck sit onto a shelf of clear Douglas Fir shaped and laminated to fit on the inside edge of the hull sheer and then tabbed inside and out with multiple layers of eGlass set in West System Epoxy.

 

Basically the hull/deck/cabin/cockpit is all one piece now. Very stiff, very strong, very dry.

 

Here are a few pictures of the tabbing. I think it was six layers of tabbing inside and outside. You can see the rebate to set the tabbing into the deck.

post-8115-0-11652800-1459460329_thumb.jpg

post-8115-0-71148100-1459460435_thumb.jpg

post-8115-0-29548900-1459460607_thumb.jpg

post-8115-0-53347900-1459460668_thumb.jpg

post-8115-0-04144500-1459460845_thumb.jpg

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Shark: I think the tolerances you would need to make that work would be pretty hard to maintain. It's not like feeding a genoa luff up a roller furler extrusion.

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Yeah, it wouldn't be trivial to pull the rail around the curve but you could definitely make the carbon track strong enough to tolerate the installation process. Things could be made easier with some careful pre-bending, some temporary guide bearings at strategic locations along the track, and tension applied at the right angle to keep the nose of the rail from grinding as it moves forward in the track. Regarding the dissimilar material corrosion, I was assuming (uh oh) a thick enough layer of epoxy over the CF that it'd insulate the two materials. Come to think of it, Tefgel would make a pretty good lube to facilitate installation.

 

EDIT: Now that I think about it, none of this makes any sense. Make the track after you install the toe rail in it! Just bend the toerail to the right shape and then tab it onto the deck.

 

EDIT 2: Or prefab short sections of CF track with as much height as you want and flat bottoms, slide them onto the pre-bent toerail, and epoxy them down. Clean as a whistle.

 

EDIT 3: Damn it, forget the aluminum. Just make a long section of CF rod 1/2" thick and a bunch of short CF standoffs with semicircular hollows on top and flat bottoms. Bond the standoffs to the rod at the desired spacing then bend the whole thing to conform to the curve of the deck and bond it down.

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Ah, you guys ( iStream, Sailby) DO know about Carbon and Aluminum not really getting along well AT ALL, right ?

I know absolutely fuck all about carbon, apart from what I'm learning in this thread to tell you the truth, Shark. Is it any worse than a marriage between cellulose and aluminium in a marine environment?

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Sorry Stream but your idea is a non-starter.

 

I bent holey rail around the deck edge of my first 1/4 Pounder. Trust me, you ain't going to slide it down a 40' curved slot - or any length slot. You might be able to pound it down a straight slot but not a curved one, no way, no how.

 

That is some tough hard stuff. The first time I cut it with a hacksaw was like cutting steel. It took a Spanish windlass of 3/8" dacron line to bend it to the curve of the deck edge and I was nervous the whole time expecting it to jump up and smash me in the face.

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Sorry Stream but your idea is a non-starter.

 

I bent holey rail around the deck edge of my first 1/4 Pounder. Trust me, you ain't going to slide it down a 40' curved slot - or any length slot. You might be able to pound it down a straight slot but not a curved one, no way, no how.

 

That is some tough hard stuff. The first time I cut it with a hacksaw was like cutting steel. It took a Spanish windlass of 3/8" dacron line to bend it to the curve of the deck edge and I was nervous the whole time expecting it to jump up and smash me in the face.

You're right, Jon. See above. How about dumb ideas #2, 3 or 4?

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Sorry Stream but your idea is a non-starter.

 

I bent holey rail around the deck edge of my first 1/4 Pounder. Trust me, you ain't going to slide it down a 40' curved slot - or any length slot. You might be able to pound it down a straight slot but not a curved one, no way, no how.

 

That is some tough hard stuff. The first time I cut it with a hacksaw was like cutting steel. It took a Spanish windlass of 3/8" dacron line to bend it to the curve of the deck edge and I was nervous the whole time expecting it to jump up and smash me in the face.

You're right, Jon. See above. How about dumb ideas #2, 3 or 4?

 

 

Why bother with great kludgy pieces of metal or carbon fiber when all the cool kids are going to floating leads coming from a few soft loups?

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I think Ish has it.

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It is the hot thing now. Totally retro with a techno twist.

 

It had never really sunk in that a custom design allowed not only choosing the best layout for your needs but excluding all the pain in the ass flaws of production boats. I am even more in awe.

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Ish is correct. We just don't need all those holes in the rail anymore. They were convenient and they helped make the hull to deck joint more aesthetically acceptable. Maybe back when we flew a greater variety of off the wind sails having all those holes made for a lot of potential lead positions. Sail inventories are much smaller today.

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Istreamer:

 

It;s ok. I have lots of fabulous ideas that turn out to be bad. That's why I come here. Got to run'em by someone. . That's why God gave us the "erase" command.

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It looks good! Will all the mechanicals go in prior to the lid going on the box?

 

Kim, our hull and deck are glassed together, no leaks since we've owned it.

Yup, FRANCIS' hull and deck are now one piece thanks to tabbing. One piece items do not leak unless you drill a hole in them.

(Makes the whole boat really stiff too.)

 

Kim, you make it sound like the tabbing was a refit rather than as-built.

 

If so, I'm curious how this was done as well.

 

 

Briefly, I've read where some people have done the following:

- Remove say 3 out of every 4 bolts to keep the deck and toe rail in place.

- Tab in between remaining bolts from the inside.

- Remove stanchions and remaining bolts and toe rail.

- Glass outer join

- Tab in remaining gaps on inside

 

Does this sound about right?

 

No, the boat was designed from day one to have the deck sit onto a shelf of clear Douglas Fir shaped and laminated to fit on the inside edge of the hull sheer and then tabbed inside and out with multiple layers of eGlass set in West System Epoxy.

 

Basically the hull/deck/cabin/cockpit is all one piece now. Very stiff, very strong, very dry.

 

Here are a few pictures of the tabbing. I think it was six layers of tabbing inside and outside. You can see the rebate to set the tabbing into the deck.

 

 

Thanks Kim. That is what I figured - it was more wishful thinking on my part that it was a refit.

 

I know people have done it as a refit but they all seem to have done it differently. Some appear to have only glassed the outside join - although I believe if you only do one, it should be the inside join. Both is the best obviously.

 

I am aware of one local who built his own 40 ft R/C maybe 20 years ago using an interesting method. He constructed a one piece hull and deck male mold with an open (literally) transom. He moulded up the hull and deck in one piece then demolished all the interior wood frames and strips and hauled them out the transom. a lot of work, but a true one piece hull and deck structure.

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Next we'll get ourselves a big lathe:

in-turning_a_column_ca_1920s_fr_harold_c

and filament wind the whole damn boat.....

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IIRC Pete Goss's Aqua Quorum, designed by Adrian Thompson, was built in one piece over a male mould. The mould was then broken up and removed through the companionway.

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Whats wrong with a nice thick solid teak toerail bonded down by epoxy?

Varnish.

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Why would you varnish a solid teak piece,? Especially if it is there to be chafed, abused. in all manners.

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If the piece is going to be abused and chafed why would you use teak in the first place?

 

The only reason to varnish teak is you like the look and it's a great look. You can mix varnished and raw teak for a good look. But I don't care for the all unfinished teak look. It's just personal taste.

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Multihulls have developed methods for net attachments that involve fitting rods of various materials through bearing holes, but the strengths required are way below a toe rail, so that usually a round batten of some composite material does the job. The lengths are also much shorter than a full deck rail.

 

+1 for soft attachments.

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Hi Bob!!!

 

It's my turn to "Photo Bump" you...

 

Hope that you are well!

 

fs

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Visited the Carbon Cutters this morning. That Jim Betts runs a very impressive shop. Well laid out and well organized. Lots of talent in that building especially Jim, who can be pressed into service for just about anything boat building when there is a need. Here he is machining some custom bearings for the cutters:post-8115-0-52531500-1459890286_thumb.jpg

 

Here is the shop floor with numerous activities and projects of Cutter pieces coming together:post-8115-0-09482000-1459890355_thumb.jpgpost-8115-0-19544600-1459890366_thumb.jpg

 

Here is the amazing alternator set up:post-8115-0-83575800-1459890408_thumb.jpg

 

And the bowsprit mockup:post-8115-0-47574400-1459890454_thumb.jpg

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For those of you worried about the sea-chest placements for intake and outflow:

 

The outflow is on the port side of the full keel:post-8115-0-98097200-1459890621_thumb.jpg

 

Where as the intake is on the starboard side of the full keel:post-8115-0-09575300-1459890662_thumb.jpg

 

The separation looks pretty good, however I am NOT a NA, so my opinion might not count.

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Mast step area:post-8115-0-60833500-1459890825_thumb.jpg

 

Chainplates:post-8115-0-78235100-1459890853_thumb.jpg

 

The longboard gang:post-8115-0-23822600-1459890887_thumb.jpgpost-8115-0-36714500-1459890895_thumb.jpgpost-8115-0-73418600-1459890904_thumb.jpg

 

Preparing the flat table to make sure it is...well flat:post-8115-0-57634000-1459890958_thumb.jpg

 

A box of goodies arrived, I tried to take these home with me, but Neil saw me and made me put them back:post-8115-0-38763400-1459891020_thumb.jpgpost-8115-0-30753800-1459891029_thumb.jpg

 

Bob and Neil working on a clever bulkhead solution:post-8115-0-34959000-1459891071_thumb.jpg

 

I guess we would call these keel floors, (nothing like the ones on FRANCIS):post-8115-0-58249600-1459891131_thumb.jpg

 

 

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Thanks Kim for posting those shots. While we were mucking around at the yard I left my cat, Pumpkin, in charge of the office. She worked so hard she needed a nap.

cat%201_zps9wnmntcn.jpg

Here is Kim demonstrating his strength by holding the 8 oz. tiller half out. One hand folks!

cat%204_zpsdqr6ivi4.jpg

Here's peak through the port engine room door at the engine and alternator set up. This is Anthony's work. He's very good. Forward of the bhd you can see the sea chest bonded in place.

cat%202_zpsd4wao7bo.jpg

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I am pretty sure that tiller half did not weigh anything close to 8 ounces, more like 2 ounces.

(But who is that old guy holding it out?)

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Now that was a Photo Bump!

 

Amazing the way it's taking shape Bob...

 

I for one am very honored to see it all.

 

Very Cool!

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

fs

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Great shots! Thanks.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, did you stop for squaw candy? If so where did you get it. Hard to find down here now because all the processors cut the belly off and send it to Japan. The friend who bought my Cal 20 is a fish distributor and even he can't get it for me.

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Jose:

I buy my squaw candy from the Snow Goose Grocery Stand on the road between Conway and the La Conner turn off. They get it from some place in Bellingham. It's $38/lb and I load up a big plastic bag and the girl always says, "This is $68, is that ok?" I say yes. I make that bag last a week sharing it with Ruby. I cut some up and put it on her dinner at night. She appreciates it.

 

Central market has it at about the same price but I don't think theirs is quite as good as the Snow Goose stuff. They call it "Indian candy" or something politically correct like that. I stick with the old name.

If Central Market has it I'd bet Whole Foods would also have it.

 

I could buy some for you and overnight it Fed-ex to you if you like.

 

 

I wonder what it sells for in Japan?

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Thanks Bob. I'll check out hose sources. The wife and I need a trip to LaConner and the Skagit valley some time so maybe I can stop by the Snow Goose.

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Jose:

If you come up this way you could swing by the shack for dinner I could get some and give it to you at the Spike Sail In if you are coming.

I'll be down in Olympia giving a talk at the Olympia YC on April 12th.

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Great new pics, thank you...

 

Keep up the awesome work.

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Bob can you explain the thinking behind the huge structure that holds the generator, It looks way stronger and fancier than is needed.

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Great pictures, thanks guys.

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Sav:

I'm pretty sure the thinking behind that structure was to design and build it just as strong as it needs to be. that would be common sense. There will be more devices connected to the PTO before we are done. It is not my practice, not Jim Antrim's, not the yards's to build things "way stronger and fancier than needed". That would be very expensive. Perhaps you should wait until you have a better understanding of what is being connected there before passing judgement. I'll keep updating you as the installations progress. I'd give you a detailed description of the finished installation but it;'s over my head and I'd leave something off and just confuse you.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Bob:

 

I'm assuming the plan is to launch #1 this summer, but then you know what assuming gets you ...

 

So I thought I would ask. Will we get to see #1 sailing in a few months?

 

Plumbean

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Plummer:

 

That is Plan A. But we don't have a date yet. It would be late in the summer. We have a lot left to do. That said, things are coming along quickly.

 

I'll give fair warning as launch date approaches.

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Reading on a phone, it was hard to see where Pumpkin ends and sporin begins. But I love that your sporin filling approach went for the whole bottle rather than just a wee hipflask!

 

By the way, what comes in a blue bottle?

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Hunter:

All that clutter means something to me. My office is chock a block full of silliness like that stuff.

The blue tequila bottle is CORRALLEJO tequila. Once in Mexico wth the family we had rented a villa on the beach. We ran out of tequila one afternoon. There was this blue bottle sitting there., It had been there since we arrived. We had not touched it. Spike and I decided we should try it. It is excellent tequila and it always reminds me of my son Spike.

 

The sporan was a gift from a friend. It came from his father in law, a Campbell. I have roots i the Henderson clan so I like to think I'm part Scottish. In 42 years of working for myself I have accumulated some thin gs that I am not willing to throw out. I look at photos of European designers with clean uncluttered stark white offices where the chairs are all orthogonally arranged and I think, "Oh, that sure as hell is not my style." Maybe I am sentimental.

 

Office%20east_zpsmrbxb7a7.jpg

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Very cool progress, I remember in the beginning there was a lot of talk about the advisability of doing a full keel sailboat in Carbon. It's interesting how no one is bringing that up anymore. One interesting side effect of the full keel is that weight hasn't really been an issue, instead these boats are being built to be crazy tough. I wonder if the same would have happened if the boats had the same design goals but a fin keel. I think there would have been more temptation to try and reduce weight.

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Mizzer:

Yes, I think you are right.

The discussion over carbon fiber as everyone is now aware, is moot.(mute, mought, kmute?) There is no going back at this stage.

 

The 35,000 overall displ does mean we do not have tp be concerned at all about the weight wew are adding. We will still have a ballast/displ of 47% and that's with adding in the tankage in the keel fin. I think this will give us a "full keel" boat unlike any other. Many of them are heavily built with slack bilges and a low B/D. In any breeze they lay over and die. Ours will not do that. Ours will stand up to it's sail like a modern race boat.

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Hunter:

All that clutter means something to me. My office is chock a block full of silliness like that stuff.

The blue tequila bottle is CORRALLEJO tequila. Once in Mexico wth the family we had rented a villa on the beach. We ran out of tequila one afternoon. There was this blue bottle sitting there., It had been there since we arrived. We had not touched it. Spike and I decided we should try it. It is excellent tequila and it always reminds me of my son Spike.

 

The sporan was a gift from a friend. It came from his father in law, a Campbell. I have roots i the Henderson clan so I like to think I'm part Scottish. In 42 years of working for myself I have accumulated some thin gs that I am not willing to throw out. I look at photos of European designers with clean uncluttered stark white offices where the chairs are all orthogonally arranged and I think, "Oh, that sure as hell is not my style." Maybe I am sentimental.

 

Office%20east_zpsmrbxb7a7.jpg

 

There's an old saying - "a clean desk is a sign of a sick mind".

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One of my lecturers at varsity told the story of two workers, one with an always messy desk. One day, at the end of work, the neat, tidy person prepares to go home and clears his desk. He looks to the other guy and says "tidy desk, tidy mind." The other guy looks up, looks at his desk and says "Empty desk", and keeps on working.

 

Stu

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Stu:

Since that photo was taken I have added about 4" to each pile of cd's you see on the right. I'll go measure.

OK, my average cd pile is 7.5".

My tallest cd pile is 10".

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One of my lecturers at varsity told the story of two workers, one with an always messy desk. One day, at the end of work, the neat, tidy person prepares to go home and clears his desk. He looks to the other guy and says "tidy desk, tidy mind." The other guy looks up, looks at his desk and says "Empty desk", and keeps on working.

 

Stu

Back when I had a career, I had a fellow work for me whose desk/office was an utter disaster at all times. Stuff piled everywhere. Looked like a bomb had gone off in there.

 

He was by far the most productive and most valuable person who ever worked for me.

 

I did not bug him about his office.

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There is a W. C. Fields movie where he plays a guy like that. His roll top desk is jammed with pieces of paper. Someone asks him for a note on something and he reaches into the pile and pulls out the exact note.

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There's another side of the clean desk story, too.

 

My dad was part of the "whiz kids" group that went to Ford after WW2 and helped drive numbers-based decisions in the auto-industry. While everyone in the executive offices was busy with cluttered desks, they kept coming across this one guy who always seemed relaxed, never seemed to do anything, in fact spent a fair amount of time with his feet up on his desk reading a newspaper.

 

One of the "whiz kids" (Thornton, as the story was told to me) asked Ford what the deal was with that guy, and why Ford kept him around since he never seemed to do anything.

 

Ford looked over at the guy, who had his feet up on the desk at the time, and said "last year he thought of an assembly-line improvement which is going to save us [some impressive amount of money] on every car we build, forever. And he looked just like that when he thought of it."

 

;-)

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My father was a watchmaker. His workbench top was always an amazing clutter, 2 or 3 watches in little tins in various stages of disassembly, little tools scattered around, little clear plastic bottles full of tiny watch screws or other parts.. I would stand at look at it when he was out front with a customer. If I touched one little screwdriver and moved it a half inch, he would notice. I have the bench now and some of the tools and stuff and I keep it in disarray. It just looks better that way.

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My dad worked that way, if my parents were fighting my mother would (while my father was away for work) pay teenage me to "clean up" his shop and hang up all the tools. Drove him nuts. He always knew where everything was. The best example was one day about 10 years ago I re-did my living room, and put in picture rail. So I need some picture rail hooks. While visiting my dad I said "hey, where can I get some picture rail hooks??". He walks to his garage and comes back a minute later with a half dozen antique brass hooks - beautiful! This is a man who in my lifetime had not lived in a house that had picture rail...

 

So it works for some. I have to tidy up, it doesn't work so well for me.

 

Now, having had the honor of visiting Bob in his lair, it was my impression that it has lots of things in it but not in a messy way. Things in their place.

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I had a philosophy professor who kept not stacks of paper on his desk, but a mound of paper from all sides to the center that was about a foot high. I went in to collect a paper that I had not gotten back because I missed the class and he said it was on his desk. He just pointed over while smoking a pipe and reading in his armchair and I dug around for about ten minutes but I found the paper.

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Sculper:

Yes, I may have a lot of stuff but you are correct, everything has place, I hate to have to hunt for something. I could not find the Harken catalog the other day. Damn it! It was not in it's spot where I always keep the main catalogs.

Then I noticed is was about 20" in front of me next to my monitor. But it wasn't in it's spot . Is now. My cd piles look disorganized but they are stacked by composer. Pretty much.

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My father was a watchmaker. His workbench top was always an amazing clutter, 2 or 3 watches in little tins in various stages of disassembly, little tools scattered around, little clear plastic bottles full of tiny watch screws or other parts.. I would stand at look at it when he was out front with a customer. If I touched one little screwdriver and moved it a half inch, he would notice. I have the bench now and some of the tools and stuff and I keep it in disarray. It just looks better that way.

my father was a tool maker as a child i used to move things around on his workbench just to get a reaction, always good sport.

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Why bother with great kludgy pieces of metal or carbon fiber when all the cool kids are going to floating leads coming from a few soft loups?

 

 

I would like to learn about this. Can anyone point me to more info? Thanks.

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The discussion over carbon fiber as everyone is now aware, is moot.(mute, mought, kmute?) There is no going back at this stage.

 

Contrary to common misuse, ‘moot’ doesn’t imply something is superfluous. It means a subject is disputable or open to discussion. e.g., The idea that commercial zoning should be allowed in the residential neighborhood was a moot point for the council.”

 

http://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/on-american-mootness/

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Why bother with great kludgy pieces of metal or carbon fiber when all the cool kids are going to floating leads coming from a few soft loups?

 

 

I would like to learn about this. Can anyone point me to more info? Thanks.

 

 

There are some threads on Gear Anarchy you could search, there are some very smart people over there. I would suggest starting a topic like "Learn me about floating leads and loups" and then we'd all know.

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and - as long as one appreciates CHAFE on those "padeye" applications... We had some jib leads fall apart after 2 years - so they need to be monitored a bit more closely than good stainless parts.

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The discussion over carbon fiber as everyone is now aware, is moot.(mute, mought, kmute?) There is no going back at this stage.

Contrary to common misuse, moot doesnt imply something is superfluous. It means a subject is disputable or open to discussion. e.g., The idea that commercial zoning should be allowed in the residential neighborhood was a moot point for the council.

 

http://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/on-american-mootness/

It's gone too far, and it's usually accepted that in the US and Australia it now means the opposite of what it still means in Britland. You can usually tell what people mean to mean, as it were.

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Still means debatable in Oz. Long time since it meant that in the US, but aren't getting much debate there anyway these days.....

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Still means debatable in Oz. Long time since it meant that in the US, but aren't getting much debate there anyway these days.....

 

Well that's a moot point I think . . .

 

[colon, bracket]

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