Bob Perry

My newest project

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In case you haven't noticed, Bob isn't the one being attacked, he keeps attacking people and then pretend to be surprised when somebody reacts. Obviously some are going to reply back, that's life, if you keep stepping on people feet eventually you get in trouble.

 

I registered in May of 05 and lurked for some time before that. Don't assume that I haven't noticed anything including your propensity to be a prick. Clear enough? With that I will attempt to not respond to anymore whining since Bob asked me not to. You guys should head on over to PA where everyone is an asshole. Including me.

You don't reply to my point and call me a prick instead, I take this as evidence that you ran out of arguments. It didn't take me 12 years to understand that Bob enjoys putting down others, trouble is I am French, we used to chop off heads of people with a sense of entitlement and I can't stop myself replying when he starts being condescending.

So, if you could be as generous as Bob, earn a reputation as a legend in yacht design, share your work, your experince, your house, your food, your family, yourself and your real identity you might have a point.

 

Otherwise stop contaminating an amazing thread with your own problems.

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So, now that's me who has problems! Mad houses will soon be overflowing at this rate.

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I am sorry to be rude, but this thread is not about you, it's about building some amazing boats that Bob, Jim Betts and the owner are kind enough to share with us.

 

Living with Bob's opinions is the price of entry, if you don't want to pay the price don't come to the thread.

 

In my case, Bob, JIm and the owner were kind enough to show my wife and I through the first boat last year, truly an amazing and generous experience.

 

I want to follow the building of the boats, not your opinions.

 

Start your own thread slamming me, or Bob, or anyone you want, just leave this thread alone.

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In case you haven't noticed I normally mostly stay out of this thread.

 

The shitfight started in the keel and the rudder threads when Bob couldn't help himself making disparaging comments about Proa work. Proa might not be a legend in yacht design but he's got multihull experience, knows how to use Rhino and he also put together a website full of useful information on proas. I like to read Proa contributions and can't see why Bob has the right to be a prick with him. When Bob isn't in the mood of derailling threads without contributing everything is fine.

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In case you haven't noticed, Bob isn't the one being attacked, he keeps attacking people and then pretend to be surprised when somebody reacts. Obviously some are going to reply back, that's life, if you keep stepping on people feet eventually you get in trouble.

 

I registered in May of 05 and lurked for some time before that. Don't assume that I haven't noticed anything including your propensity to be a prick. Clear enough? With that I will attempt to not respond to anymore whining since Bob asked me not to. You guys should head on over to PA where everyone is an asshole. Including me.

 

 

You don't reply to my point and call me a prick instead, I take this as evidence that you ran out of arguments. It didn't take me 12 years to understand that Bob enjoys putting down others, trouble is I am French, we used to chop off heads of people with a sense of entitlement and I can't stop myself replying when he starts being condescending.

 

Edited for brevity and clarity. ;)

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Ed, Ed, Ed,,,,,,,,It's for sale. You can own ICON, Work nights.

Bob, for all practical intents and purposes I am retired. I could work 12 hour days, 7 days a week here in Poland where the average annual income is about $16,000 a year, and maybe I could afford a 30 year old 4ksb. The nice thing about dreams is they are free.

 

Istream said it well, Icon is a sexy beast. Amati's bow is quite sensual as well, another beautiful creation. Amati, do you bring your cello on board and sit in the cockpit playing a soulful piece at sunset is some beautiful, isolated anchorage, on occasion?

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Denni:

Don't think so. It did the Sydney-Hobart Race when it was new but that was ten years ago.

 

Thanks or the kind words on ICON. I've got some good stories from that build.

 

It's becoming clear to me that I am going to piss some people off even when I'm not trying to piss them off. For me, that's their choice. I have had Panoramix on "ignore" for some time but I see his posts quoted from time to time. I do not respond. I'd prefer to keep this thread about boats and not personal problems. Let the thread drift if you like just drift on to boats.

 

I have some work to do this morning before heading up to Port Townsend and Panope's shed. Kim and I are going to watch Panope pour some lead. I'll take my cameras.

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Hi Bob, any reason icon couldn't be converted to a sprit and wear asyms?

Not looking to buy her, but curious...

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HFC:

ICON does also use asyms. The headstay tack is about 6' aft of the stem so there really is no need for a sprit. In that photo of ICON storming down the Straights I think they are better off with a sym chute and pole. It's nice to have the options for both.

 

iicon%20rendezvous_zpsbumfidsd.jpg

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

 

You can always feign admiration to the maestro to buy peace. If you aren't better than me at biting your tongue, you need a thick skin.

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

 

No, it isn't. I'm surrounded by "uppercalssmen" all the damn time here and, they treat me pretty well.

 

I guess there must be a reason, though for the life of me, I can't tell you what it is.

 

This is decent forum, with decent people. It's not populated by the usual cast of armchair sailors. I learn stuff here from those upperclassmen. I've been to their homes, eaten at their tables, and I was invited every time.

 

And I'm not all that so, it must be how decent they all are.

 

I know bullying. It really doesn't happen here.

 

Welcome, Markus.

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

 

You can always feign admiration to the maestro to buy peace. If you aren't better than me at biting your tongue, you need a thick skin.

 

I don't have to feign admiration for Bob's work. Nobody designs better all-around cruising boats than Bob Perry.

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Bullying is subjective and more in the eye of the beholder.

Yeah, that explains the issue perfectly. The subjective experience of the person being bullied is their problem. It has nothing to do with the anti-social behavior of the bully. Sure, Bully Bob.

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

 

You can always feign admiration to the maestro to buy peace. If you aren't better than me at biting your tongue, you need a thick skin.

 

I don't have to feign admiration for Bob's work. Nobody designs better all-around cruising boats than Bob Perry.

 

 

You are fine then.

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

 

No, it isn't. I'm surrounded by "uppercalssmen" all the damn time here and, they treat me pretty well.

 

I guess there must be a reason, though for the life of me, I can't tell you what it is.

 

This is decent forum, with decent people. It's not populated by the usual cast of armchair sailors. I learn stuff here from those upperclassmen. I've been to their homes, eaten at their tables, and I was invited every time.

 

And I'm not all that so, it must be how decent they all are.

 

I know bullying. It really doesn't happen here.

 

Welcome, Markus.

 

Except for the visiting dining with them part, since I live in Poland, I have had the same experience here and I have learned many, many things here. Any admiration I give to Bob is because he as been very kind and generous to me, and he designs beautiful, well sailing boats so there is no reason to feign anything.

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Thank you Panoramix.

It's becoming clear to me that I am going to piss some people off even when I'm not trying to piss them off. For me, that's their choice. I have had Panoramix on "ignore" for some time but I see his posts quoted from time to time. I do not respond. I'd prefer to keep this thread about boats and not personal problems. Let the thread drift if you like just drift on to boats.


Obviously, nothing about this is becoming clear to you at all. Thread drift is fine with you, in any thread, as long as it remains centered on you. Keels, rudders, origami boats, whatever - make it about praising Bob Perry and all is good - cooking recipes with the deliberate intention to be rude and derail a thread, posting page after page of pictures unrelated to the thread, endless boasting about your accomplishments and your perfect, untroubled life, comparing yourself to Mozart and Beethoven, calling yourself "Maestro". Anyone who wanders off that path or finds it tiresome must be a "bitter little guy", jealous, off their meds, "troubled", "creepy", "way off balance". And they must not like your boats! So deeply wrong on all counts.

You (and more than a few others here) have no problem at all making disparaging remarks about someone's character or personal life, about which you know absolutely nothing. Instead of seeing these actions for what they are (ad hominem attacks), you seem to actually believe you're performing a public service by warning others to ignore and shun those who don't kowtow deeply enough to you.

For the sake of this country and the entire world, I hope Trump is less successful at normalizing bully tactics than Bob Perry has been here on SA.

Bullying is subjective and more in the eye of the beholder.

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British cutters had short and very stout solid wood masts and aft shrouds. Runners seem optional. Runners def required on the topmast when the jib topsail was set. I assume pole masts required runners.

 

Here is a prototype of a gaff rig with pole mast:

 

Wanderer II Sailplan

In this case, one runner from the masthead. The pull of the headsails is opposed by the peak halyard. This is a small boat (24'). Larger boats are probably rigged differently.
Eric Hiscock's Wanderer II, designed by Laurent Giles.

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So, now that's me who has problems!

 

By George, I think he's got it.

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

 

Not at all - assholes do get called on their assholeiness though.

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

 

Not at all - assholes do get called on their assholeiness though.

 

Deservedly so. Are you calling me an asshole?

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British cutters had short and very stout solid wood masts and aft shrouds. Runners seem optional. Runners def required on the topmast when the jib topsail was set. I assume pole masts required runners.

Here is a prototype of a gaff rig with pole mast:

 

 

 

In this case, one runner from the masthead. The pull of the headsails is opposed by the peak halyard. This is a small boat (24'). Larger boats are probably rigged differently.

 

Eric Hiscock's Wanderer II, designed by Laurent Giles.

Yea, a pole mast would be the way to go now, as BPerry mentioned. Claude Worth goes into detail on shortening sail on the old cutters...de rigging and housing the topmast (which required a man aloft), and reefing the bowsprit and resetting the bobstay and bowsprit shrouds. It was an insane amount of work.

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

Not at all - assholes do get called on their assholeiness though.

Deservedly so. Are you calling me an asshole?
I'm sure he was referring to the drama queens Pano and Proa. SJB one of the good guys like you.

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When I laid out the shack, I knew that the "hallways" and stairs would be places we spent a lot of time in. I wanted them 6' wide, minimum. The architect did not agree. The interior decorator did not agree. They thought I was nuts. But in the end I did it my way and I am very happy with the results. You spend a lot of time walking through the house/shack. You go to a bedroom, you fall down and sleep. I am right. Come to the shack. Check it out.

 

My friend came by. Garret Larson. He's a very skilled architect. He wanted to measure my hallways. He liked they way they worked.

 

I am very good at this stuff. Sorry but that's just reality.

A comfortable volume of space is great to have. Our new house only has 5' wide stairs, six feet would be better, but all ceilings are either 9' or 10' and every door is 8' tall. It makes a huge difference and only adds about 10% cost to a typical 8' ceiling house.

 

Your boat layouts consistently show this respect for volume.

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

 

Not at all - assholes do get called on their assholeiness though.

 

Deservedly so. Are you calling me an asshole?

 

:D

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Ed, Ed, Ed,,,,,,,,It's for sale. You can own ICON, Work nights.

Bob, for all practical intents and purposes I am retired. I could work 12 hour days, 7 days a week here in Poland where the average annual income is about $16,000 a year, and maybe I could afford a 30 year old 4ksb. The nice thing about dreams is they are free.

 

Istream said it well, Icon is a sexy beast. Amati's bow is quite sensual as well, another beautiful creation. Amati, do you bring your cello on board and sit in the cockpit playing a soulful piece at sunset is some beautiful, isolated anchorage, on occasion?

.

 

Bob bows!

 

Used to use my electric cello for that (the paean to the sun thing), but the salt air dissolved the elaborate midi setup, so I have to reconfigure, since the pickup was custom and stuff. I remembered that Bob did a design review (I think it was) of a carbon guitar, and concluded that a carbon guitar would be a good boat instrument. And after years of trying to score a practice carbon cello (which don't exist outside of the bespoke $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ World), I'm starting to look around for a standard carbon cello. The big problem is how much room the thing will take up, especially since we eschewed quarter berths for lazarette space. I just can't, emotionally, put a cello in the lazzarette, and hear it getting squished or banged around. So I would wind up moving a full size cello around just to sleep, or eat, or cook, or read etc etc..

 

I know, quality problems. I should've been a violinist.......

 

And no Bob, a bigger boat is not in the cards. :)

 

Davits man, davits!

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Mr. Ed:

That's a great photo. Not much twist i that main and topsail. I'd love to know what that AWA was. Any idea?

 

 

 

 

Well, we were going really poorly at that moment (Maria woke us up a bit), and she must have been at least ten points higher than us. Maybe 15. So if we were tacking through 110, that's 55 True, so I guess she was maybe doing 40 - 45 True?

 

I'm afraid I still don't know how to make our boat go to weather: sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't, and I don't understand enough to know what's gong wrong or right. We had a specialist gaffer sailmaker onboard at the end of last year, and he was urging us to go way harder on the luff tension (aka peak halyard) than I would have dared. Couldn't really tell if it was working, but he said it's one of the keys. People do say ketches don't go upwind well, and sometimes I feel that when we are pointing OK the mizzen is just acting as an airbrake.

 

Wish I had more time to learn (and some new sails. . . .)

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Ed, Ed, Ed,,,,,,,,It's for sale. You can own ICON, Work nights.

Bob, for all practical intents and purposes I am retired. I could work 12 hour days, 7 days a week here in Poland where the average annual income is about $16,000 a year, and maybe I could afford a 30 year old 4ksb. The nice thing about dreams is they are free.

 

Istream said it well, Icon is a sexy beast. Amati's bow is quite sensual as well, another beautiful creation. Amati, do you bring your cello on board and sit in the cockpit playing a soulful piece at sunset is some beautiful, isolated anchorage, on occasion?

.

 

Bob bows!

 

Used to use my electric cello for that (the paean to the sun thing), but the salt air dissolved the elaborate midi setup, so I have to reconfigure, since the pickup was custom and stuff. I remembered that Bob did a design review (I think it was) of a carbon guitar, and concluded that a carbon guitar would be a good boat instrument. And after years of trying to score a practice carbon cello (which don't exist outside of the bespoke $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ World), I'm starting to look around for a standard carbon cello. The big problem is how much room the thing will take up, especially since we eschewed quarter berths for lazarette space. I just can't, emotionally, put a cello in the lazzarette, and hear it getting squished or banged around. So I would wind up moving a full size cello around just to sleep, or eat, or cook, or read etc etc..

 

I know, quality problems. I should've been a violinist.......

 

And no Bob, a bigger boat is not in the cards. :)

 

Davits man, davits!

 

Now that made me laugh! :D

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I know, quality problems. I should've been a violinist.......

 

I used to have a piccolo.

 

TMI Semi, TMI. Or are you really talking about the musical instrument? ;)

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A guy goes to a urologist, complaining that when he pisses, the urine spurts out of several holes in his dick. Doctor examines him, writes a ph number on a card, and says: " I'm afraid thers nothing I can do to help you. Call this man". Patient: " Is he some kind of special surgeon?" Urologist: "No, he's not a surgeon. He teaches piccolo, and can show you how to finger it"

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Ed, Ed, Ed,,,,,,,,It's for sale. You can own ICON, Work nights.

Bob, for all practical intents and purposes I am retired. I could work 12 hour days, 7 days a week here in Poland where the average annual income is about $16,000 a year, and maybe I could afford a 30 year old 4ksb. The nice thing about dreams is they are free.

 

Istream said it well, Icon is a sexy beast. Amati's bow is quite sensual as well, another beautiful creation. Amati, do you bring your cello on board and sit in the cockpit playing a soulful piece at sunset is some beautiful, isolated anchorage, on occasion?

.

 

Bob bows!

 

Used to use my electric cello for that (the paean to the sun thing), but the salt air dissolved the elaborate midi setup, so I have to reconfigure, since the pickup was custom and stuff. I remembered that Bob did a design review (I think it was) of a carbon guitar, and concluded that a carbon guitar would be a good boat instrument. And after years of trying to score a practice carbon cello (which don't exist outside of the bespoke $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ World), I'm starting to look around for a standard carbon cello. The big problem is how much room the thing will take up, especially since we eschewed quarter berths for lazarette space. I just can't, emotionally, put a cello in the lazzarette, and hear it getting squished or banged around. So I would wind up moving a full size cello around just to sleep, or eat, or cook, or read etc etc..

 

I know, quality problems. I should've been a violinist.......

 

And no Bob, a bigger boat is not in the cards. :)

 

Davits man, davits!

 

 

340x_josh-pykes-boat-guitar.jpg

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I had a great day up at Panope's today. I met his beautiful daughter Emma. By the time I had arrived Steve and Kim had taught her to call me "Bully Bob". We had some fun with that. I took a shitload pf photos but I just walked in the door and I have not downloaded them yet. Men playing with fire! Doesn't get much more exciting than that.

 

I'll do my download and see if I got any photos worth posting.

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Yep, I'm a newb...so what? This isn't high school, where the upperclassmen bully the freshmen...or is it?

 

Not at all - assholes do get called on their assholeiness though.

 

Deservedly so. Are you calling me an asshole?

 

 

Not yet. :)

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I had a great day up at Panope's today. I met his beautiful daughter Emma. By the time I had arrived Steve and Kim had taught her to call me "Bully Bob". We had some fun with that. I took a shitload pf photos but I just walked in the door and I have not downloaded them yet. Men playing with fire! Doesn't get much more exciting than that.

 

I'll do my download and see if I got any photos worth posting.

 

Just blowing stuff up! But that's not a very good idea with molten lead around.

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Hey Donn, were your ears burning today?

 

Here is Steve with a slug of the finished product.

lead1_zps8v2hrvah.jpg

 

Steve stirs the pot. He's a bit like me making spaghetti sauce. He likes to stir.

lead2_zpswxbcqjgb.jpg

 

There were a few things missing today: Whiskey, beer and the soundtrack to Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen. But we had fun anyway.

lead3_zpsmp2jtk86.jpg

 

Much of the time it was like three 11 year olds out behind the shed, "What would happen if we,,,,,,,,,,,?"

077_zpsb01rfphz.jpg

 

Of course Ruby was there supervising the whole thing. She thought it was exciting.

lead5_zpsqvjh1brs.jpg

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Have you ever watched that TV show about the old guy moonshiners in the hills on N Carolina? Today felt a bit like that. It was a kick in the pants. Good old CA fun.

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Yea, there's an exciting subversive feeling about melting metal in the back yard.

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Hey Donn, were your ears burning today?

 

Here is Steve with a slug of the finished product.

lead1_zps8v2hrvah.jpg

 

Steve stirs the pot. He's a bit like me making spaghetti sauce. He likes to stir.

lead2_zpswxbcqjgb.jpg

 

There were a few things missing today: Whiskey, beer and the soundtrack to Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen. But we had fun anyway.

lead3_zpsmp2jtk86.jpg

 

Much of the time it was like three 11 year olds out behind the shed, "What would happen if we,,,,,,,,,,,?"

077_zpsb01rfphz.jpg

 

Of course Ruby was there supervising the whole thing. She thought it was exciting.

lead5_zpsqvjh1brs.jpg

 

Steve did invite us but we couldn't make it. I wish we could have been there. I love DIY forge stuff.

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Gotta respect the vacuum cleaner reverse oxygen forge supplier. Brilliant

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At least there is beer when we deep fry a turkey.

 

Looks like a lot of fun.

 

More fun than demolishing bits of an old house down here ...

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I learned today that the scientific term for lead is "motherfucker".

 

Used to be "ballast". You're getting soft.

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Won't have to mow that bit of lawn for a while at least. :)

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Oh, come on! Cut him some slack.

 

We've all done this. Every single one of us. We don't like someone and, since we don't like them, everyone else must not like them too. We have all used this, tried to convince everyone that a particular person was evil, wrong, or just to be hated.

 

We've all done this, when we were twelve.

Perry is still doing it every damn day. Look how many hate me just because he says so.

 

 

Did you ever stop to think it might be simply because you are an asshole?

 

Shocked, shocked I tell you. I personally always believe what people tell me. Yeah right.

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"Look how many hate me just because he says so."

 

I have that power. Sure I do. Now to get that power to work on my wife and dog.

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"Look how many hate me just because he says so."

 

I have that power. Sure I do. Now to get that power to work on my wife and dog.

 

It's easier with sheep. If one jumps, all the rest that follow will jump at the same spot.

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I learned today that the scientific term for lead is "motherfucker".

 

Scientific literacy is crucial.

 

Steve

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Kim, inspecting.

It waas kind of rewarding to see a few ugly clumps of "motherfucker" slowly then all of a sudden turn into this shimmering slab of lead.

054_zpsjkdz662r.jpg

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PS: lighten up. You like boats. I like boats. We like boats. No one hates you!

Roll with the punches and come back fighting or smiling.

You're a smart guy.

I'm not important, you're not important, Bob's not important.

Boats are important.

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"Look how many hate me just because he says so."

 

I have that power. Sure I do. Now to get that power to work on my wife and dog.

It's easier with sheep. If one jumps, all the rest that follow will jump at the same spot.

No. This is your doing.

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Since everybody else is complain'n I want more dog pictures and stories. An increase in dog and boat pictures would be welcomed.

 

Has Ruby approved the new projects? If so when will Ruby post the news? Has Ruby decided to renew Bob's contract for 2017? Plans, plans, plans.....That dog just refuses to post preliminary drawings of new projects....Does the cat have her tongue?

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Aww now that is cute...

 

However....Pumpkin is the least productive Associate and needs to get back to work. No Cat Boat design in 2016 even though Bob posted that he secretly wanted one. When Pumpkin joined Perry Associates and hangers on I expected a CATalina contract. So far nothin! Ruby may need to limit the corporate catnap policy.

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Kent:

Pumpkin and Ruby are on break right now. Ruby has webbed feet.

001_zpsfnknrcbm.jpg

I had a cat named Pumpkin. A calico Manx. Name came from Halloween colors and I got her on Halloween. Loved to go outside after rainstorm and lie down in puddle up to her neck and swat at floating leaves. Weird cat, but even after 18 years since she died I still miss her.

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Kocher:

Pumpkin was a feral cat we found and brought home, with great difficulty. My wife brought her home the night before Halloween. She is the best cat I have ever owned. Wakes me at 4am every morning licking my fingers. She and Ruby are great pals.

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Just got this pic from Great White. He's with Kim at the haul out. This does make me happy.

FL%20hauled_zpszichuxap.jpg

 

Think i saw a photo of her on your website, both unusually fine and good looking! Imagine quite fast too.

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Just got this pic from Great White. He's with Kim at the haul out. This does make me happy.

FL%20hauled_zpszichuxap.jpg

 

Think i saw a photo of her on your website, both unusually fine and good looking! Imagine quite fast too.

 

That is a beautiful sight!!

<DROOL>

 

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Bob,

 

We inspected the keel to hull and keel to bulb joints carefully.

They look as good as the day she was launched.

Perfect.

 

Greatwhite and I had a pleasant day and good trip home in the rain.

Thank goodness for good foulies.

 

Cheers,

Kim

post-8115-0-81987900-1484697687_thumb.jpg

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I really don't get this anti Bob stuff.

There was a post a little while back [from He That Shall Not Be Named] that tried to imply that Bob is bored and bitter and has nothing to do but read CA all day.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I went up to see Bob last Friday like I do almost every week. I was there for about three hours, as usual.

We spent about half that time working on the boat details, deck layout, etc, and spent the rest of the time talking about;

 

Music-this week it was country music along with Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks, other times it is classical or jazz or Bob's days in a rock and roll band

Yacht design in general

Classic Sailboats

Other yacht designers and their boats

Things on sailboats that have worked well and other things that have not worked so well in the past

Politics

Economics

Cruising Anarchy

Sociology

Evolution

Sailing

Our kids and grandkids and their futures

Bob's many past and current projects - design and build - my favorite topic

Cars

Education

The environment

Real estate

Taxes

Food and cooking

Dogs and cats-I always get to play with Pumpkin when I first come in and right before I leave - Ruby gives me a big hello after I ring the gong and open the door. We always take a break and take Ruby for a walk up the beach

And a lot more that I forget. This is typical day.

Despite all this Bob is amazingly productive. Never had so much fun as working with Bob on the boat,

 

If you don't like Bob's opinions just skip past them. I do that all the time with other posters. I don't agree with everyone on CA, but so what, just move on. Don't waste your time on Bob, he is doing just fine. He has a great sense of humor that dovetails nicely with my sense of cynicism and absurdity. We have a great time.

I am going up this Friday and ruin Bob's day by talking about sailing draft on the boat.

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Bob, the photos from GW and looking at Icon yesterday both show the headstay well after of the bow. What is the rationale there? I'm sure you've answered this ad nauseum, but perhaps you can point me to a post.

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Sshow bob:

 

It's not complicated.

I only need so much rig for the horse power I am after.

I want a certain aspect ratio to main and fore triangle.

When I lay out the areas required to the desired aspect ratio that's where the headstay lands.

 

On both boats, especially Frankie, if I took the headstay to the stem I'd risk having serious lee helm issues.

 

And,,,,I like that look.

It's nice to have the jib tack surrounded by deck when you are changing sails.

 

This design feature is common with long skinny boats. Look at the meter boats, i.e. 12 meters etc. Look at the long and skinny Scandinavian classes, i.e. 30 sq. meter, Dragon Class.

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I really don't get this anti Bob stuff.

There was a post a little while back [from He That Shall Not Be Named] that tried to imply that Bob is bored and bitter and has nothing to do but read CA all day.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

i'm pretty sure there are many designers that would be happy to have 1/4 of the work that Bob has

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us7070:

Yes, I believe so. I am very fortunate. Talking to a Brazilian builder now about a large alu ketch.

 

Turned down another job yesterday. I didn't think I was the right guy for the job. I referred the guy to Paul Gartside.

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Sshow bob:

 

It's not complicated.

I only need so much rig for the horse power I am after.

I want a certain aspect ratio to main and fore triangle.

When I lay out the areas required to the desired aspect ratio that's where the headstay lands.

 

On both boats, especially Frankie, if I took the headstay to the stem I'd risk having serious lee helm issues.

 

And,,,,I like that look.

It's nice to have the jib tack surrounded by deck when you are changing sails.

 

This design feature is common with long skinny boats. Look at the meter boats, i.e. 12 meters etc. Look at the long and skinny Scandinavian classes, i.e. 30 sq. meter, Dragon Class.

And it makes flying the asymmetrical easy without a sprit.

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While I get the idea that an asym does not require a sprit if there is enough distance between the tack of the headsail and the bow, are there issues of clearance?

 

I fly an asym this way, but I have issues with the tack line of the asym coming into contact with the bow pulpit and the bow light. There can also be the odd chafe issues, particularly if reaching with the kite.

 

How do these boats avoid these issues? I am making changes this year to avoid the issues, and I will likely go with a short, removable sprit. Just to get enough projection so that the tack line can run unencumbered. Curious how others have dealt with this.

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Not that it certainly wasn't done before, but it's also common on ULDBs - especially the big ones - the headstay is well back of the stem on the SC70s, and it's even a foot aft on my little 30'.

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pete - the most common mistake I see is not putting enough tension on the halyard thus allowing the sail to bend, not to mention it doesn't fly very well. On the code 0 we use a kevlar strop to raise it a few inches but still crank on lots of halyard tension. The issues are requires jibing outside and in certain conditions you go from optimum trim to collapsing and wrapping around the roller furled jib. This usually occurs when racing offshore and results in a crew change. Prior to this I came from sym/pole rigs to sprit Jboats and it took me some time to get comfortable. This is on a 44' heavy cruiser and it flies maybe 2' at most in front of the jib tack. The only removable sprit I have experienced is on a mini transat, it works fine just a pita to set up. My understanding is some of the new sprit designs are much easier. On the design Bob has the jib tack is far enough back it shouldn't be an issue though still requiring outside jibes.

 

 

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Pete:

Frankie has no bow pulpit and ICON's bow pulpit is well aft of the stem.

 

Working on the mystery project today.

Did my SAILING reviews at 3:30am this morning.

 

icon%20rendezvous_zps6jdosf9v.jpg

Icon%20deck%20plan_zpsi7vgoicu.jpg

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Thanks Bob. I should have looked closer.

I imagine that it is rigged ahead of time and the tack line is brought back over the pulpit (if there is one). Otherwise, someone would have to step outside of the lifelines while racing. Actually, I guess this is exactly like working with a sprit.

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Pete:

Kim's tack line goes internal and exits the deck just forward of the winches. I don't recall how ICON's is run.

On the carbon cutters we are running the tack line internal through the end of the bowsprit. It emerges well aft of the bow pulpit. Most race boats today run them internally. It cleans things up as you can imagine.

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While I get the idea that an asym does not require a sprit if there is enough distance between the tack of the headsail and the bow, are there issues of clearance?

 

I fly an asym this way, but I have issues with the tack line of the asym coming into contact with the bow pulpit and the bow light. There can also be the odd chafe issues, particularly if reaching with the kite.

 

How do these boats avoid these issues? I am making changes this year to avoid the issues, and I will likely go with a short, removable sprit. Just to get enough projection so that the tack line can run unencumbered. Curious how others have dealt with this.

Well, FRANCIS does not have any pulpits, so I am afraid I can't help you. We fly the asymmetrical from the bow roller. Works great.

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pete - the most common mistake I see is not putting enough tension on the halyard thus allowing the sail to bend, not to mention it doesn't fly very well. On the code 0 we use a kevlar strop to raise it a few inches but still crank on lots of halyard tension. The issues are requires jibing outside and in certain conditions you go from optimum trim to collapsing and wrapping around the roller furled jib. This usually occurs when racing offshore and results in a crew change. Prior to this I came from sym/pole rigs to sprit Jboats and it took me some time to get comfortable. This is on a 44' heavy cruiser and it flies maybe 2' at most in front of the jib tack. The only removable sprit I have experienced is on a mini transat, it works fine just a pita to set up. My understanding is some of the new sprit designs are much easier. On the design Bob has the jib tack is far enough back it shouldn't be an issue though still requiring outside jibes.

 

With our new Harken topdown furler we can roll the asymmetrical up a little bit and the gybe becomes much easier. In light air Frank Schattauer used to run up to FRANCIS's bow and help the kite during a gybe, now he can continue to lounge in the cockpit.

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