scooter1369

The VX Evo

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Sailed the boat today in Sarasota, I love it.   I was a little apprehensive at first, lots of stuff going in and extremely powerful.  After about an hour I got comfortable, no worries.

The boats big, I’m about 6’2, 220 and it was awesome not being cramped up.  It feels like a little Vx one (in fact missed it sitting next to 20 Vx ones when I arrived.    I think this is going to be a perfect boat for big fellas’, folks who like to be challenged, sailors who like sailing on top of the water rather than through it.  I also think your going to see a lot of 2 person small crews.  

I really wish I’d had this thing when my son was young. 

 

 

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On 12/28/2017 at 9:03 AM, xonk1 said:

Rod, I'll be racing in the Bluster in the Bay Regatta Tampa Jan 13-15. I can do a demo at SSSQ on Tuesday Jan 16 then back to Atlanta. Hope it works out.

Some questions will be answered here: 

 

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On 4/29/2015 at 2:31 PM, Speng said:

OK so how is this different from the RS100, D-One, RS Vareo, Laser Vago, Bongo, Hoot + Chute, Raider? This boat has to be similar to one of them as they're all sit-in kite singlehanders.

not to mention the orgy of non kite singlehanders either people just don't want boats like that or they're not marketed well in the USA but based on the results in the fairly dinghy centric UK I think the answer is people don't want them. So unless this boat is a fricken revolution/VX are marketing geniuses then it doesn't make sense. Maybe they think they are marketing geniuses given the VX-One's success or maybe that was just a really good boat.

The VX One is , without a doubt, a really good boat. This may sound obvious by someone as biased as I am, but I became biased because it is an excellent boat and not the other way around. More than been a great boat, it is a good overall program. I can make a long list of great, very well designed boats, that never took off because the boat is just a part of the equation.

In the case of the Evo, you are correct on comparing with similar models, yet there are other elements that add up or take away from the decision of joining on or other class: this could be from aesthetic, through the characters involved in the class to how easy is to tow, rig and splash.

We do think the VX Evo, same as the VX One, is a revolutionary boat. There is a delicate balance between the performance, accessibility and appeal to a given group of sailors. Few other builders have done the same. The closest to the Evo is the RS100, yet smaller and aimed to slightly smaller sailors and more athletic, this has to do with the overall length and sail area of the Evo and small details as the boom height, etc.

Wisdom in marketing and support when growing a class are key, you are accurate about that too. We are working hard towards that and curiously today we released the first "How to Rig your VX Evo" video.

 

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I heard a rumor that people who lined up with it went better wing-on-wing with the kite downwind for extended periods of time as opposed to heating it up and planing.  True?

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1 hour ago, sailhmb said:

Did the VX1 make a setup video?

No, but it would be a great idea.  Kudo’s to Vela Sailing Supply for doing the evo vid.  They just took on boat distribution and are doing a bang up job.   Customer service just took a giant leap forward!

Two more Evos hit Texas and another on its way from Florida.  Finally a boat is just go sail for fun

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Does the spin halyard _need_ to run inside the mast?

If it would be happy outside the mast... you could put a fastpin in the spin halyard block and you could leave the kite rigged and on the boat. Pin the block to the mast and put the mast up. I suppose the halyard may need to be a few feet longer to get enough slack to step the mast (or just pull a few feet of kite out of the snout when stepping). That would speed up rigging a bit.

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26 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

Does the spin halyard _need_ to run inside the mast?

If it would be happy outside the mast... you could put a fastpin in the spin halyard block and you could leave the kite rigged and on the boat. Pin the block to the mast and put the mast up. I suppose the halyard may need to be a few feet longer to get enough slack to step the mast (or just pull a few feet of kite out of the snout when stepping). That would speed up rigging a bit.

I’m leaving the kite rigged on mine.  Just pull the halyard against the mast base and Velcro it, then a cover over the entire thing 

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50 minutes ago, sushi said:

I’m leaving the kite rigged on mine.  Just pull the halyard against the mast base and Velcro it, then a cover over the entire thing 

Do you split the mast or will the cover allow the end of the mast to poke out?

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4 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

Do you split the mast or will the cover allow the end of the mast to poke out?

DOH, for travel.  sorry, I mean mast up storage.  Interesting idea Dex.   Honestly, hooking up this kit takes a few seconds.  The biggest hassle is re-running the halyard using a tracer but that's only a few seconds itself.  Sorry, I misunderstood  

 

 

 

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Great stuff.  Do we know many Evo's have been sold in the US, and will we have the same kind of following the VX One has (are they taking off at the same pace the One did after release).  

Went out on a VX it was too much for me,  looking for something that can be controlled easily while single handing.

Also: what are the key differences between the Evo vs the RS100 ?

thank you !

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14 hours ago, ridethewinds said:

Great stuff.  Do we know many Evo's have been sold in the US, and will we have the same kind of following the VX One has (are they taking off at the same pace the One did after release).  

Went out on a VX it was too much for me,  looking for something that can be controlled easily while single handing.

Also: what are the key differences between the Evo vs the RS100 ?

thank you !

30?   For several reasons the Evo didn't get a big marketing push after it's launch.  In fact it appears that Bennett did nothing to support the boat, I wont speculate why but let's just say it may have been the best thing for the class.     I will say that I think they were more focused on the VX One.    North American Distribution has been handed to Vela Sailing which is going to be an absolute blessing.  Their level of customer service is something you don't often see in the marine industry, and just what this awesome little boat needs.     

You'd never single hand the VX ONE in any reasonable breeze, efficiently anyway.   The VX EVO is designed to be a single hander for larger folks, and can be singled handed by a talented smaller sailor like the 155 soaking wet dude in that video.   Otherwise, two smaller people will be ideal.   

 Both the RS 100 and Evo step up the technical aspect of sailing by giving you a kite. The RS100 looks like an Aero on steroids (more manageable for small to moderate size sailors) while the Evo is better suited for moderate to large sailors (or again, if you think you want to sail with another person).    I think the RS100 would be a better training platform, the EVO is a beast of a boat.    

For me, personally - a dingy with main alone doesn't really make me want to go sailing.   The EVO's something that will get me out of the office early a few days/week.   

Go sail them both, let us know what YOU think!

 

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I launch from 3' of water. How would the kick up boards handle that? Can I sail out to depth with them half down or something?

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3 hours ago, duwke said:

I launch from 3' of water. How would the kick up boards handle that? Can I sail out to depth with them half down or something?

Ya, it works ok.  I’ve been sailing off a rocky beach. Rudder is perfec, it has a line up and down control.  The more CB takes a little more work but sail-able in a few feet of water.  We will sail off the beach in Conroe.  Show up early and go play with my boat 

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There is an EVO registered for the Mug Race May 5 in Florida.

We don't know what kind of Portsmouth rating it should be assigned.

Anyone know what its relative speed is? 

So, in this case "What's it rate?" is a valid question.

Dave Ellis

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14 minutes ago, sailwriter said:

There is an EVO registered for the Mug Race May 5 in Florida.

We don't know what kind of Portsmouth rating it should be assigned.

Anyone know what its relative speed is? 

So, in this case "What's it rate?" is a valid question.

Dave Ellis

We've been at 85 here.

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1 hour ago, sushi said:

We've been at 85 here.

Just was informed that at the Conroe event this weekend they are going to use 83.

We will see how that goes before assignment for the Mug Race.

Dave Ellis

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The Evos fleeted out at CYC this past weekend. I'm curious, as Race Commodore here at CYC, who told you we were using 83? Everything I have is 85.

 

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Conroe was a fun event.  Looking forward to DCYC as a One Design fleet in a few weeks.   Five boats registered, Texas is adding two new VX Evo's (active sailors) in July.

 

 

IMG_0644.jpg

IMG_1098.jpg

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NICE PIC, EASE THE RETRIEVAL LINE OR MAKE IT LONGER, SAME PROB I HAVE ON AC.

 

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1 hour ago, lindy911 said:

The Evos fleeted out at CYC this past weekend. I'm curious, as Race Commodore here at CYC, who told you we were using 83? Everything I have is 85.

 

Texas dealer

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1 hour ago, sailwriter said:

Texas dealer

That guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about!

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For the Mug Race Saturday we need a valid Portsmouth number for the EVO. 

Are you the official Class rep? Got no answer from many inquiries, except the Brit in Texas.

If you, or anyone else, has an official number, pass it on. Soon.

Dave Ellis

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4 minutes ago, sailwriter said:

For the Mug Race Saturday we need a valid Portsmouth number for the EVO. 

Are you the official Class rep? Got no answer from many inquiries, except the Brit in Texas.

If you, or anyone else, has an official number, pass it on. Soon.

Dave Ellis

Yep, I’m the official class rep.

use 85

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There was a RS100 that sailed the Mug Race a couple of years ago with a rating of 85.2 with the B rig.  The Evo is longer with more sail area and should be a fair amount faster then the RS 100.   85 is a gift. Based on the rating of the RS 100,  I would hope that the Evo could sail to an 83 in Portsmouth 

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Actually i'm not the class rep, because there's not one yet.  But soon.

In reality 85 might be on the high side, send me a PM with your email. 

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Tried  to PM. "Inbox is full" message.  It is good that you are an advocate for the EVO. Every successful class has one or more motivated adherents. I saw that over the many years working for St. Pete YC. The Snipe fleet grew or died depending on whether there was an active 'cheerleader.'

Since the US Sailing Portsmouth tables are seldom updated (few clubs turn in times), it is up to a few knowledgeable sailors to bite the bullet and make a best guess. Then it is tweaked from there. See WETA. Took a couple years. But it is now listed.  Full disclosure, I am racing a Raider II non spin in the Mug Race. The only Portsmouth is for the old original non jib, assy spin Raider. So add jib modification, subtract Spin modification = 90. Sailing alone I do well; in a blow not so much without crew. It is what it is.

The RS 100 referenced above got crushed with his 85.2. Not nearly that fast in light air for 40 miles. At Conroe, an official reports that the EVO and Aero were very close in speed upwind. (7 or 9 rig?) Off the wind the EVO with spin took off and was perhaps a minute a mile faster.  

We are going with 83 for the Mug Race. It may be downwind or reaching the entire 35 miles. Or it may be a beat all the way. Not a great test of Portsmouth ratings. Also, skipper skill and ability to sail at a high level for 8 - 10 hours comes into play.

Let's see how it goes. Then you can add the info into your quest for a fair EVO rating. 

Dave Ellis

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40 minutes ago, sailwriter said:

Tried  to PM. "Inbox is full" message.  It is good that you are an advocate for the EVO. Every successful class has one or more motivated adherents. I saw that over the many years working for St. Pete YC. The Snipe fleet grew or died depending on whether there was an active 'cheerleader.'

Since the US Sailing Portsmouth tables are seldom updated (few clubs turn in times), it is up to a few knowledgeable sailors to bite the bullet and make a best guess. Then it is tweaked from there. See WETA. Took a couple years. But it is now listed.  Full disclosure, I am racing a Raider II non spin in the Mug Race. The only Portsmouth is for the old original non jib, assy spin Raider. So add jib modification, subtract Spin modification = 90. Sailing alone I do well; in a blow not so much without crew. It is what it is.

The RS 100 referenced above got crushed with his 85.2. Not nearly that fast in light air for 40 miles. At Conroe, an official reports that the EVO and Aero were very close in speed upwind. (7 or 9 rig?) Off the wind the EVO with spin took off and was perhaps a minute a mile faster.  

We are going with 83 for the Mug Race. It may be downwind or reaching the entire 35 miles. Or it may be a beat all the way. Not a great test of Portsmouth ratings. Also, skipper skill and ability to sail at a high level for 8 - 10 hours comes into play.

Let's see how it goes. Then you can add the info into your quest for a fair EVO rating. 

Dave Ellis

Dave, you can reach me at vxonetx at Hotmail dot com    I was sent a neat excel spreadsheet this AM that i'll share.  It was used to achieve a rating for the HPDO (high performance dingy open) at the American yacht club.   They gave the Evo a provisional 82     It's an interesting exercise i think you'd be interested in.  And after looking at it i think 83-82 might be the right area.

In Conroe we had one race on Saturday that was cancelled due to lack of wind (time limit).   It is true that one aero sailed into the evo fleet upwind, the evo's put a little on him downwind and when the race was cancelled were probably back to an even delta (lead evo vs lead aero).   However, the aero sailor was probably 150lbs soaking wet and sailing a 9 rig.  So total displacement with boat and sailor added up to around 230lbs?     Evo's agreed to all sail with the same sail (B) which is 10% larger than the aero 9.   Boat + average sailor was around 370lbs.   Had we been in flat water i think the Evo's would have been fine and powered away with the extra water line, but Conroe is a bulk-head lake and the chop was as bad as I've ever seen it.  It honestly never stopped.   The heavier evo could never get going, so not to be helped by momentum.   The aero could at least accelerate for a short period between bumps.     But with all that said boats were around the same on the course even in those conditions.

On sunday we had enough breeze to move in the first race, and the Evo's stretched quite a lot.  In the final race the first evo cold have probably lapped the aero's.    I think my personal max downhill speed was well over 15. 

I'd also note that there was a wide margin between the first aero and last aero, and first evo and last evo.  Like, probably 25% or better course length.   To that point, its damn impossible to determine how fast a boat using a few data points.   I think you made that point.   Had that RS100 sailor in your event been one of the top European guys he might have crushed the fleet.   Problem with handicapping high performance boats in the USA is we simply don't sail them much, or well.   Here an RS 100 or VX Evo look like a crazy machine.  Across the pond they are pretty common.     Every time i start getting over-confident i pull up some musto skill video's.   Ugh!

send me an email.   

 

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Portsmouth question.  Seems like those  posting are well versed with the Portsmouth System so I would ask for an opinion on this. My boat is of limited production and I don't think any race results have been submitted  in 15 years. My club uses PHRF ratings most of the time so  does a PHRF to Portsmouth conversion for handicapping and now I have some result history with them.  Based on my boats current results they have (2 years of racing )  I have been sailing with a 175 PHRF rating which converts out to a Portsmouth number of  84.2  vs 82  on the Portsmouth books.  When I get a chance to race Portsmouth, they use the conversion which seems to better represent the boats performance.

Here is my question----

Who can I turn this information into to see if they can update my Portsmouth rating ?   Would it be problematic to assume that my club has more updated  race results and their rating can be used else where or am I destined to the Portsmouth tables which seem outdated ? 

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5 minutes ago, K9u20 said:

Portsmouth question.  Seems like those  posting are well versed with the Portsmouth System so I would ask for an opinion on this. My boat is of limited production and I don't think any race results have been submitted  in 15 years. My club uses PHRF ratings most of the time so  does a PHRF to Portsmouth conversion for handicapping and now I have some result history with them.  Based on my boats current results they have (2 years of racing )  I have been sailing with a 175 PHRF rating which converts out to a Portsmouth number of  84.2  vs 82  on the Portsmouth books.  When I get a chance to race Portsmouth, they use the conversion which seems to better represent the boats performance.

Here is my question----

Who can I turn this information into to see if they can update my Portsmouth rating ?   Would it be problematic to assume that my club has more updated  race results and their rating can be used else where or am I destined to the Portsmouth tables which seem outdated ? 

Man, i hope someone else chimes in and helps.  I cant.

Handicap racing is a crap shoot, even if boats are somewhat similar (VX evo VS RS100 for example).  When you start racing mutli-hulls VS monohulls or centerboard boats VS displacement it's worse that a crap shoot.    There is no possible way to have a fair race in dissimilar boats. 

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52 minutes ago, K9u20 said:

Portsmouth question.  Seems like those  posting are well versed with the Portsmouth System so I would ask for an opinion on this. My boat is of limited production and I don't think any race results have been submitted  in 15 years. My club uses PHRF ratings most of the time so  does a PHRF to Portsmouth conversion for handicapping and now I have some result history with them.  Based on my boats current results they have (2 years of racing )  I have been sailing with a 175 PHRF rating which converts out to a Portsmouth number of  84.2  vs 82  on the Portsmouth books.  When I get a chance to race Portsmouth, they use the conversion which seems to better represent the boats performance.

Here is my question----

Who can I turn this information into to see if they can update my Portsmouth rating ?   Would it be problematic to assume that my club has more updated  race results and their rating can be used else where or am I destined to the Portsmouth tables which seem outdated ? 

Oh, big can of worms! See other threads on the US Portsmouth system. I've even asked to be on the committee. No answer. It seems that guesses or very limited data is not considered. Just the way it works. No incoming data=no upgrades or additional boats. The UK has 80 clubs turning in data. The US one or two, and not dinghies.

"Back in the day" the late Darling Hobock would arbitrarily make some decisions. The Suicide, for example, was still using a handicap from the 1960s. I put one together and sailed Thursday Eve races in Tampa. Handicap was changed from low 90s to 80.5! I was the only one turning in time. The guy who had been winning by massive amounts quit racing.

Nobody wants to arbitrarily make such decisions today.

As Race Chair of a small club, we just make a guess and then tweak after a season.

Dave Ellis

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Now that I have looked into Portsmouth it is really confusing. I thought that it was a fixed number system but seems to be modified depending on the race.  I   just looked at the  Miami Key Largo race and noticed that the EC 22 was rated 72.6  for  that race and for the Mug Race  rates 76.2.  She won the Miami to   Key Largo race at 72.6  so would not see any reason for a change. Does a local Race Committee have that much latitude to adjust ratings ?

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Interesting. Big change in the EC 22 rating for the Mug Race in the last day or so.

The EC 22 had been rated on the scratch sheet at a much faster speed than it is now, 76.2. Was in the mid 60s.

At the stated rating, other Spinnaker Dinghies can only hope that it runs into a log. Otherwise, no chance.

Dave Ellis

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Alright girls and boys,

The reason why most of us may choose to go handicap racing is because we found a boat that we like and feel comfortable with and hope to have more of our peers join us an grow the class, but until then we want to keep active and share with other sailors on the racecourse. With that said, we must understand that the sailing playing field is in constant change due to weather and water conditions, this means we cannot/should not stick to solid conditions when it comes down to handicap ratings. Every boat will have a sweet spot not only on ind conditions but also on the course relative to the wind. Going back to the Evo, the upwind performance is similar to almost any other hiking strap monohull 16 ft dinghy out there. Then downwind in moderate to heavy, it is a complete rocket. In very light air conditions get hard again because of the angles.  All these is no news for all of you. 

If you find yourself needing to rate the Evo for a long distance race where the expectation is to go broad reaching, sure, you may assign a 77 or so, for example, but for the same race upwind in fresh breeze 85 is probably not even fair. Who knows!! We need to collect a little more data.

My first personal experience with the Evo racing against other dinghies was in Wurstfest last year and it was very light breeze for the whole weekend and it favored the Evo for sure. I was called to say that 85 was not the right number for it, so I talked to the organization afterwards and we played with the numbers and saw how the would've affect the final results. I don't have them with me anymore, but we lowered it a couple of times and the results did not change until it went to around 79 or so...can't recall.

This link shows numbers and the variations based on wind conditions, but again not the angle to the wind which is a big game changer:

http://smsa.com/smallboat/Tables/Centerboard Classes _ United States Sailing Association.htm

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Mug race results are posted. (Mug Race 2018) Evo did OK. But mostly upwind, very dependant on skipper skill on course, changing gears constantly, current factors, and this for eight solid hours.

I was highly motivated, as I must stop sailing little boats single handed. On to RC jobs and Cup Holder boats. My Raider non spin managed to win Overall on handicap. Nice!

Dave Ellis

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Congrats Dave!! Nicely done.

Can you share with us what was it like in terms of wind conditions and race course configuration?

Thanks,

Rod

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I'm traveling, so more later. Briefly, light upwind at start, 8:00 am. Evo and RS 100 got good starts. But I was able to quickly pass. On the first dogleg turn it paid to work the left, North shore. They did not. I was surprised to be faster and higher than the EC 22 in 'sitting on the deck' light air. Beat them to the midpoint Shands Bridge. Right after the bridge the wind died for the fastest catamarans, allowing some of us to catch right up. Had a great battle with Hobie 18s, Astus tri and some 70-something rated keel boats. 

For about an hour the wind freed for a tight, then beam reach. Planing conditions, but a bit tight for a screecher. They fell off to leeward where their wind later died. Gnarly gusts from aloft and veered made for some roundups for some, including the EC 22. Passed him again.

Finally the wind steadied to around 5 and required a few tacks to the finish. I finished five minutes after the EC 22, about a half hour before the EVO. 

If the Evo had been assigned an 85 instead of 83 he would have moved up a few places in fleet, but not in class.

Looks like a great boat. Would have been different with a 35 miles broad reach. 

Dave Ellis

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@sailwriter  does Mug Race have good support for out of town dinghies? Camping, etc? If the organizers want increased participation, could probably get some boats from around the SE with a little promotion on SA. You got the ICs un-banned right?

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They promote heavily. No, not through SA. Bui any serious sailor in the SE of America knows the Mug Race. I'll start a Mug race thread next winter.

The banning of canoes came from some unseaworthy open paddling canoes one year that gave up without checking in. A long search with many agencies involved. Same with windsufers.

I was able to prove the International Canoe to be a viable racing sailboat. Ya'll.come. But no interest. Sail a canoe for 7 to 10.hours straight with no break? Hard enough single handed on the very comfortable Raider.

Boats came from TN, AL, SC, NC and from one end of FL to the other.

Apparently I am slated for RC next year. So, will promote!

Dave Ellis

 

 

 

Edited by sailwriter
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Sad to see that the interest in the EVO has degenerated from excitement over a great, strict one-design to back-and -forth over Portsmouth ratings and comparisons to other dinghies .  We are killing the good new designs. The future for one-design looks grim. 

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11 hours ago, xonk1 said:

Sad to see that the interest in the EVO has degenerated from excitement over a great, strict one-design to back-and -forth over Portsmouth ratings and comparisons to other dinghies .  We are killing the good new designs. The future for one-design looks grim. 

Did U forget this is SA? ......Get over it

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On 5/9/2018 at 9:13 AM, xonk1 said:

What was I thinking?

There's your problem.....you were thinking.

If folks stopped to think before posting, SA as we know it would not exist.

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The reality is.... until there are enough boats for a one Design class, if you want to race, Portsmith is it for this type of boat

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K9u20, Sad to say but you are correct. Another great design that, for some reason, cannot gain much traction. It is mystery to me that a new dinghy ( VX EVO ) that is CLEARLY superior to older designs is not replacing the outdated boats. Just sayin'

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54 minutes ago, xonk1 said:

K9u20, Sad to say but you are correct. Another great design that, for some reason, cannot gain much traction. It is mystery to me that a new dinghy ( VX EVO ) that is CLEARLY superior to older designs is not replacing the outdated boats. Just sayin'

do you think the fact that it costs almost $18k new have anything to do with it? (serious question)

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dgmckim, Serious answer - after all the endless talk about why one-design racing is declining in the USA I believe that the main problem is that people will not devote the TIME necessary. You cannot be casual about one-design racing. It takes WORK. It takes TIME. Folks can easily justify a $ 5.oo latte, so price is not the main issue. People make decisions in their lives - they have collectively decided that the EVO is not the answer for them. Sad to see a great design struggle.

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2 hours ago, xonk1 said:

dgmckim, Serious answer - after all the endless talk about why one-design racing is declining in the USA I believe that the main problem is that people will not devote the TIME necessary. You cannot be casual about one-design racing. It takes WORK. It takes TIME. Folks can easily justify a $ 5.oo latte, so price is not the main issue. People make decisions in their lives - they have collectively decided that the EVO is not the answer for them. Sad to see a great design struggle.

Stay tuned

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On 5/14/2018 at 3:03 PM, xonk1 said:

K9u20, Sad to say but you are correct. Another great design that, for some reason, cannot gain much traction. It is mystery to me that a new dinghy ( VX EVO ) that is CLEARLY superior to older designs is not replacing the outdated boats. Just sayin'

After 25+ years of OD in a town that only supports OD, moving to an area that is mostly handicap is refreshing.  It is hard to believe but I'm tired of the same 20+ keelboat and 12+ dinghy OD's.  I know I'll come to rethink that, sometime, later, after I get done racing what ever sport boat and modern dinghy I feel like racing.  I'm sure that will grow old.  Eventually.

If you haven't toiled in OD boats most of your life and you read about or have traveled to large OD events and see how cool the OD's are, I can see your point.

But damn!  It's fun to go fast without having to engineer and number tune the rigging of a 505 to do it.  I don't care about the rating, or how I did against a dissimilar group of boats.  I know how to sail well and know when I did or didn't and that along with going fast is a great time.

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4 hours ago, Foredeck Shuffle said:
On 5/14/2018 at 3:03 PM, xonk1 said:

K9u20, Sad to say but you are correct. Another great design that, for some reason, cannot gain much traction. It is mystery to me that a new dinghy ( VX EVO ) that is CLEARLY superior to older designs is not replacing the outdated boats. Just sayin'

After 25+ years of OD in a town that only supports OD, moving to an area that is mostly handicap is refreshing.  It is hard to believe but I'm tired of the same 20+ keelboat and 12+ dinghy OD's.  I know I'll come to rethink that, sometime, later, after I get done racing what ever sport boat and modern dinghy I feel like racing.  I'm sure that will grow old.  Eventually.

If you haven't toiled in OD boats most of your life and you read about or have traveled to large OD events and see how cool the OD's are, I can see your point.

But damn!  It's fun to go fast without having to engineer and number tune the rigging of a 505 to do it.  I don't care about the rating, or how I did against a dissimilar group of boats.  I know how to sail well and know when I did or didn't and that along with going fast is a great time.

Either sailing is just plain fun, or it isn't. All too often, it isn't, but it is wrapped up in the struggle for status and fluffing the self-esteem.

With luck and good habits, yes you will grow old. You can stil sail almost as long as you want to, with good sense....... I spent much of my teen years racing with the man who taught my grandfather to sail, he was racing keelboats into his mid-90s.

One-design classes can be great, and often are.

-DSK

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I think the last two posts hit the nail on the head; the boat is a blast to sail and as SUSHI said, it's the first boat in a long time that he actually wants to go out and sail, just for the fun of it. I only spent about 45 minutes in the EVO, swapping my Aero. First thing is, it's a big boat. There is tons of room and it's stable. But under sail it didn't seem that much bigger than the Aero other than my legs weren't folded under me, but rather, stretched out. Off the wind in about 8 knots the EVO planes easily under A sail even if it was a bit busy with trying to sheet the main, the kite and steer all at once. Fun? Most definitely. That in itself is reason enough.

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1 hour ago, lindy911 said:

I think the last two posts hit the nail on the head; the boat is a blast to sail and as SUSHI said, it's the first boat in a long time that he actually wants to go out and sail, just for the fun of it. I only spent about 45 minutes in the EVO, swapping my Aero. First thing is, it's a big boat. There is tons of room and it's stable. But under sail it didn't seem that much bigger than the Aero other than my legs weren't folded under me, but rather, stretched out. Off the wind in about 8 knots the EVO planes easily under A sail even if it was a bit busy with trying to sheet the main, the kite and steer all at once. Fun? Most definitely. That in itself is reason enough.

Yep.   Yesterday afternoon my wife, son and I took the boat out for a few hours.  We took turns sailing, using out motor boat.   It was an absolute blast.   We would never have consider doing that on a simple platform. 

Turns out I may have cost myself another 16k or so 

I believe the boats going to take off, here at least.  Doubt you will ever see anything close to laser or sunfish numbers.   But I’ll have more fun racing in a 10 boat evo fleet VS a 50 boat laser fleet 

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On 5/8/2018 at 6:01 PM, xonk1 said:

Sad to see that the interest in the EVO has degenerated from excitement over a great, strict one-design to back-and -forth over Portsmouth ratings and comparisons to other dinghies .  We are killing the good new designs. The future for one-design looks grim. 

It could be that there is another reason - there was a winner - the Laser.  Winners create losers, at least on some levels...

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5 hours ago, Amati said:

It could be that there is another reason - there was a winner - the Laser.  Winners create losers, at least on some levels...

Wrong, aero competes directly with the laser and in next few years should put that tired old dog down.  

The VX evo is a very different animal.  Nothing in its space over here has caught on, mainly due to lack of support and commitment.  Coincidently that’s the reason the evo is stagnant, but there may be a big change in the very near future.

 

 

 

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Seems that a lot of good designs never get the traction required to make a big impact. There are exceptions such as the Aero. I suspect one thing missing in some new programs is the marketing side of things. Aero seems to have this figured out. Look at the effort placed by Dave Clark with regards to the UFO in terms of marketing and look at how many UFO's are being sold. For Dave it sure helps having Steve Clark as your dad to help avoid some of the well known pitfalls.

As for the VX Evo is sure looks like a nice boat and I couldn't agree more that just getting out and having fun on the water is as much a part of sailing as racing. To me, however, it seems that the marketing side of the Evo program is lacking. I know about the Evo only through Dinghy Anarchy. 

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5 hours ago, sushi said:

Wrong, aero competes directly with the laser and in next few years should put that tired old dog down.  

The VX evo is a very different animal.  Nothing in its space over here has caught on, mainly due to lack of support and commitment.  Coincidently that’s the reason the evo is stagnant, but there may be a big change in the very near future.

 

 

 

One would hope-

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1 hour ago, Alan Crawford said:

Seems that a lot of good designs never get the traction required to make a big impact. There are exceptions such as the Aero. I suspect one thing missing in some new programs is the marketing side of things. Aero seems to have this figured out. Look at the effort placed by Dave Clark with regards to the UFO in terms of marketing and look at how many UFO's are being sold. For Dave it sure helps having Steve Clark as your dad to help avoid some of the well known pitfalls.

As for the VX Evo is sure looks like a nice boat and I couldn't agree more that just getting out and having fun on the water is as much a part of sailing as racing. To me, however, it seems that the marketing side of the Evo program is lacking. I know about the Evo only through Dinghy Anarchy. 

Hi Alan,

Very fair comments. Many things are heading the right way towards the improvement of the marketing for the VX Evo Vela Sailing Supply is working with Bennett Yachting on this aspect and everyone will have more access and information about the VX Evo in not too long.

Rod

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8 hours ago, sushi said:

Wrong, aero competes directly with the laser and in next few years should put that tired old dog down.  

The VX evo is a very different animal.  Nothing in its space over here has caught on, mainly due to lack of support and commitment.  Coincidently that’s the reason the evo is stagnant, but there may be a big change in the very near future.

 

 

 

agree that laser and exo occupy very different parts of the sailing world. in terms of the aero taking down the laser, not in the next few years. gonna be a while until there's a healthy used boat market.

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11 hours ago, sushi said:

Wrong, aero competes directly with the laser and in next few years should put that tired old dog down.  

The VX evo is a very different animal.  Nothing in its space over here has caught on, mainly due to lack of support and commitment.  Coincidently that’s the reason the evo is stagnant, but there may be a big change in the very near future.

I wish people would stop talking about the RS Aero being the "Laser killer" or that it will "put that tired old dog down."

As a passionate (maybe even fanatical) RS Aero owner I could talk all day about why I like the RS Aero more than the Laser, but I have no illusion that the RS Aero is going to replace the Laser as the most popular singlehanded  dinghy world-wide - at least not in my lifetime. There are just way too many old Lasers still being sold and traded and they are not going to be sawn up for trash and sent to the dump for a few more decades.

That does not mean that the RS Aero is a failure, any more than the Mac I am using to type this is a failure just because there are more Windows PCs in the world.

I suspect the VX Evo was always aimed at a smaller potential market than the RS Aero, and it did not have the marketing power and dealer support of a major player like RS Sailing behind it.
 

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4 hours ago, tillerman said:

I wish people would stop talking about the RS Aero being the "Laser killer" or that it will "put that tired old dog down."

As a passionate (maybe even fanatical) RS Aero owner I could talk all day about why I like the RS Aero more than the Laser, but I have no illusion that the RS Aero is going to replace the Laser as the most popular singlehanded  dinghy world-wide - at least not in my lifetime. There are just way too many old Lasers still being sold and traded and they are not going to be sawn up for trash and sent to the dump for a few more decades.

That does not mean that the RS Aero is a failure, any more than the Mac I am using to type this is a failure just because there are more Windows PCs in the world.

I suspect the VX Evo was always aimed at a smaller potential market than the RS Aero, and it did not have the marketing power and dealer support of a major player like RS Sailing behind it.
 

I meant to say "too many old Lasers still being sailed and traded."

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4 hours ago, tillerman said:

I wish people would stop talking about the RS Aero being the "Laser killer" or that it will "put that tired old dog down."

As a passionate (maybe even fanatical) RS Aero owner I could talk all day about why I like the RS Aero more than the Laser, but I have no illusion that the RS Aero is going to replace the Laser as the most popular singlehanded  dinghy world-wide - at least not in my lifetime. There are just way too many old Lasers still being sold and traded and they are not going to be sawn up for trash and sent to the dump for a few more decades.

That does not mean that the RS Aero is a failure, any more than the Mac I am using to type this is a failure just because there are more Windows PCs in the world.

I suspect the VX Evo was always aimed at a smaller potential market than the RS Aero, and it did not have the marketing power and dealer support of a major player like RS Sailing behind it.
 

A small tale from a different industry- in the middle of the 19th  century, in the piano business, square grands were all the rage. (They were about the size of a medium size desk, and very popular, but aside from a convenient size, they were terrible pianos). When modern pianos started coming on the scene, there was virtually no market for them, because the used market was choked with used square grands.  This was in the era of boom and bust economics, so a bunch of manufacturers got together during one of the busts, bought every square grand they could get their hands on, put them all in a giant pile near Chicago, and burned the lot to the ground in a giant bonfire.  When the next boom came around, modern pianos sold well, and square grands were, well, relegated to the ash heap of history.  :)

How much $$$ this would take to pull off in, say, the USA?  How many used Lasers are there?  I don’t think you could get a permit to burn them.  Well, maybe you could talk Trump into it, as long as he got to light the fire.

It’s kind of a twisted argument for disposable sailboats.....:lol:

kind of.....

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There’s another story set in Olde England, in which  the popularity of guitars among proper young ladies of the upper class was ruining keyboard sales, so the keyboard manufacturers got together (have you heard this before?) , bought cheap guitars, gave them to every prostitute they could find, taught them a few chords, and sent them forth roaming the streets, to amuse themselves, the locals, and of course, to help sell their wares.

Keyboard sales rebounded quickly.

This might not work (right now) with Lasers.  ;) In some States, it might actually boost Laser sales.  Might be like the those ice cream trucks that roam neighborhoods on hot days in the summer, except Trollops on Lasers (tm)  could be cruising the lakes, in scanty attire.  Maybe playing guitars.  Trump might (?) like this.  

It’s becoming obvious to me  that this whole Laser problem is Trump’s fault. :lol:

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Take an average price of a used laser $2,000, 10000 of them = $20000000 to buy them up, plus where would you dispose of them?  And there are more than 10000 of them-

 

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Thread drift anyone?  From introducing an awesome new high end design that will hopefully satisfy the needs of a decent sized piece of the action to talking about Aeros and Lasers.  That's like discussing a new BMW and having people chirp on about Honda and Toyota.

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10 hours ago, tillerman said:

I wish people would stop talking about the RS Aero being the "Laser killer" or that it will "put that tired old dog down."

As a passionate (maybe even fanatical) RS Aero owner I could talk all day about why I like the RS Aero more than the Laser, but I have no illusion that the RS Aero is going to replace the Laser as the most popular singlehanded  dinghy world-wide - at least not in my lifetime. There are just way too many old Lasers still being sold and traded and they are not going to be sawn up for trash and sent to the dump for a few more decades.

That does not mean that the RS Aero is a failure, any more than the Mac I am using to type this is a failure just because there are more Windows PCs in the world.

I suspect the VX Evo was always aimed at a smaller potential market than the RS Aero, and it did not have the marketing power and dealer support of a major player like RS Sailing behind it.
 

The apple/pc argument is a perfect metaphor, actually. Well said!

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5 hours ago, Amati said:

Take an average price of a used laser $2,000, 10000 of them = $20000000 to buy them up, plus where would you dispose of them?  And there are more than 10000 of them-

 

Good point. And, any way, the "trollops on Lasers (tm)  in scanty attire playing guitars" option would be much more interesting.

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10 hours ago, bill4 said:

Thread drift anyone?  From introducing an awesome new high end design that will hopefully satisfy the needs of a decent sized piece of the action to talking about Aeros and Lasers.  That's like discussing a new BMW and having people chirp on about Honda and Toyota.

Chirp chirp

http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/nsx/overview.html

and even, chirp! This! Chirp!

https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/86

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11 hours ago, bill4 said:

Thread drift anyone?  From introducing an awesome new high end design that will hopefully satisfy the needs of a decent sized piece of the action to talking about Aeros and Lasers.  That's like discussing a new BMW and having people chirp on about Honda and Toyota.

You want thread drift?

Chirp on this.

Big hit in the UK around the time the Laser was launched.
 

 

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52 minutes ago, tillerman said:

You want thread drift?

Chirp on this.

Big hit in the UK around the time the Laser was launched.
 

 

I assume the folks who wrote ‘Locomotion’ were too stoned to get their lawyers and  forensic musicologists on the stand, wringing the bucks out of those short shorts......

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Yup - sold more than 10 million records worldwide. Sounds kinda like the Laser!

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17 hours ago, tillerman said:

Good point. And, any way, the "trollops on Lasers (tm)  in scanty attire playing guitars" option would be much more interesting.

Not only that, "Scantily Clad Trollops" would be a great name for a band

FB- Doug

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ll fair comments but I do have to say that it gives the impression that we are a little of on the timing: The RS Aero is a great boat and I think that RS has nailed well the market and target for it and you are right...it will take over the Laser, but it will take some time. Also, when the Aero was launched, it is not that everyone jumped and bought hundreds of them at once. It did take RS some time to have a strong presence in the market, and yes, once the product was clear as of what will offer and to what type of sailor, sales went up notoriously, especially in Europe.  Keep in mind that the RS Aero and Lasers have nothing to do or in common with the VX Evo other than they are singlehanders. 

At the shop, we carry and deal with both from a commercial stand point: the Aero and the Evo. I own both of them and enjoy them immensely on their own fields, yet they are two very different boats aimed to different sailors and while I have the perfect weight for the Aero, the Evo really takes it to the next level.

Marketing needs development and we are working on it. So far we have developed a tutorial, more than a marketing video to help folks understand how to rig and put together the VX EVO:

 

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12 hours ago, Rodfavela said:

Here is a quick clip of coming back after capsizing:

 

Not bad for a guy who’s 150 lbs soaking wet!

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Still waiting ( less than patiently ) for news on the ballasted board for sailors who probably can't right the boat as expertly as the latest video. Any news?

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The ballasted board has not been used yet. The current location is in Savannah, Georgia, close to the flee in Beaufort, SC. A good friend/VX Evo owner has it , but has not used it yet.  The truth is that , as of today, no one has really felt the need of using it, even the lightest guys (myself included) so we have not collected data compared to the boarded boat as what advantages and change in performance will make. May be a road trip on the way as you are not too far?

One of the point that may still need some work if this will be a constant option is the fact that under the current design, the ballasted board must be inserted from the bottom up, which means is a two person operation right before splashing.

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Rod, Thanks for the info. Looks like an even more stable EVO ( for older guys who are getting lazy ) isn't in the cards. If there is no interest or demand for the ballasted board, I can easily see why it isn't being developed. Happy Sailing!

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That is a fair observation, but I think a little ahead of time. Just due to logistics and delayed plans we have not tested it, but we may be into a great surprise...specially  for the super light guys. The flip side of the coin is that probably we need to split the fleet between ballasted and non-ballasted for OD racing, but we are not there yet.

The boat is in fact quite stable without it due to hull form. Yet, you cannot just jump on it from the dock, or you'll get wet for sure!  :) so the added weight does help there for sure.

 

 

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Rod, I still have high hopes for the EVO, with or without the ballasted board. If the ballasted board becomes a viable option count me in. 

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On 6/19/2018 at 6:03 AM, Rodfavela said:

The ballasted board has not been used yet. The current location is in Savannah, Georgia, close to the flee in Beaufort, SC. A good friend/VX Evo owner has it , but has not used it yet.  The truth is that , as of today, no one has really felt the need of using it, even the lightest guys (myself included) so we have not collected data compared to the boarded boat as what advantages and change in performance will make. May be a road trip on the way as you are not too far?

One of the point that may still need some work if this will be a constant option is the fact that under the current design, the ballasted board must be inserted from the bottom up, which means is a two person operation right before splashing.

Does the VX Evo trailer design allow launching and retrieving with the ballasted board in the slot?

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No, it does not. The way the VX Evo travels is on the galvanized dolly and then the dolly sits on the actual road base. There is not board/bulb rest on the trailer to do that, but it can be certainly added to the dolly, just need to make sure we have enough clearance for the bulb without interfering with rolling the dolly on the road base. 

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The Evo'ers were blasting this past weekend in Galveston Bay in epic conditions. One of them to a young sailor in one of the races and it was great fun. Thanks again to you guys for keep pushing hard and been out there. I'm sorry I missed this one.  Photo credit to John A Lever and the Clear Lake and Galveston Bay Sailing folks!

2018-06-28_0839_002.png

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