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PeterHuston

Is the 62 really going to end up as a 45?

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so...here is the proposal.

 

One design hull (including board and rudder cases)

One design wing

open foils

open rudder

 

48 feet long

Hulls and wings built by each team

Strict manufacturing controls by ACEA (on site inspection, bar coded parts, everything weighed, etc)

Teams allowed to purchase platform, wings from other teams (maybe just 'assembled in their country', but not sure anyone cares about country of origin anymore

cool thanks admiral clean

another global world wide exclusive great scoop by SA -congrats

so with all that accountability NOW

how in the hell will ggyc/oracakle team CHEAT ?

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so...here is the proposal.

 

One design hull (including board and rudder cases)

One design wing

open foils

open rudder

 

48 feet long

Hulls and wings built by each team

Strict manufacturing controls by ACEA (on site inspection, bar coded parts, everything weighed, etc)

Teams allowed to purchase platform, wings from other teams (maybe just 'assembled in their country', but not sure anyone cares about country of origin anymore

cool thanks admiral clean

another global world wide exclusive great scoop by SA -congrats

so with all that accountability NOW

how in the hell will ggyc/oracakle team CHEAT ?

 

well chief, you are way behind the curve on this one (wot a surprise), the whole proposal is the cheat

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By BA

--

 

Sir Ben Ainslie: We need an America's Cup with long-term future and must make changes despite big team protests I do not just think this is a good idea, I think it is essential. Without making radical changes, the America's Cup will never reach its potential commercially

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/sailing/11504747/Sir-Be-Ainslie-We-need-an-Americas-Cup-with-long-term-future-and-must-make-changes-despite-big-team-protests.html

It is the oldest trophy in sport. What potential must it reach? Some want the formula one of sailing. Why choose mario carts? It just is not the real thing.

 

BA and FC cannot make the cut. Sadly neither can Artemis racing. So... move the goal posts.

What Ainslie means is he can't reach HIS earning potential with the cup the way it is. Why spend money on designers? Make everything one design. Then make the boat smaller, less sailing crew less shore crew. Everyone takes a budget cut except Ben.

 

Also he's saying there's no fucking way I'm doing a Volvo to get a big paycheck.

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Things were clearly off the rails before this came up. TF and BAR were in danger of falling out, leaving three challengers - the same as last time. If TNZ and LR leave because of this change and Japan comes on board, that leaves four challengers which is better than three.

TNZ especially, but LR too, are surely far more 'valuable' on all levels than some wannabe team from Japan. I hope to hell both stay in and make a very strong run at BAR.
If Larry wants a team from Japan it's hardly going to be a wanna be team.

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How much does the new rule differ from the AC62?

 

Platform was OD for the 62.

Wing was OD for the 62.

 

Neither platform nor wing was OD for the 62, though the wing was tight enough tolerances to be close to it. Reread the rule.

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By BA

--

 

Sir Ben Ainslie: We need an America's Cup with long-term future and must make changes despite big team protests I do not just think this is a good idea, I think it is essential. Without making radical changes, the America's Cup will never reach its potential commercially

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/sailing/11504747/Sir-Be-Ainslie-We-need-an-Americas-Cup-with-long-term-future-and-must-make-changes-despite-big-team-protests.html

It is the oldest trophy in sport. What potential must it reach? Some want the formula one of sailing. Why choose mario carts? It just is not the real thing.

 

BA and FC cannot make the cut. Sadly neither can Artemis racing. So... move the goal posts.

 

 

 

 

 

Must be able to provide careers.

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Yes, but we saw that even in the strictly OD ESS when Alinghi was outclassing the fleet. Nothing new there, they will dominate the GC32 fleet too.

 

Not so sure about that. Yann and his team are a lot more up on the latest and greatest than Morgan and Ernesto and the boys. Remember - Alinghi have only been sailing comparatively ancient designs for the past three years; D35 and X40.

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OD or not OD, the winner of this AC will have the foils adapting the best to the conditions.

 

The rule may change but let's have a look to the AC62 one: 11.10 Daggerboard components shall be rigidly fixed to each other and the daggerboard shape
shall not be adjusted while racing.

 

Could the best foils be in a material changing of shape depending on the pressure, which would mean more pressure = more lift, less pressure = less drag ?

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By BA

--

 

Sir Ben Ainslie: We need an America's Cup with long-term future and must make changes despite big team protests I do not just think this is a good idea, I think it is essential. Without making radical changes, the America's Cup will never reach its potential commercially

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/sailing/11504747/Sir-Be-Ainslie-We-need-an-Americas-Cup-with-long-term-future-and-must-make-changes-despite-big-team-protests.html

It is the oldest trophy in sport. What potential must it reach? Some want the formula one of sailing. Why choose mario carts? It just is not the real thing.

 

BA and FC cannot make the cut. Sadly neither can Artemis racing. So... move the goal posts.

What Ainslie means is he can't reach HIS earning potential with the cup the way it is. Why spend money on designers? Make everything one design. Then make the boat smaller, less sailing crew less shore crew. Everyone takes a budget cut except Ben.

Ben, like Russell joins the rank of the professionnal sailors trying to modify the AC as a money machine.

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the AC should be a battle of the billionaires in the most outrageous boats that money can buy

 

That's what I want to see

 

I'm not that interested in "sustainability"

 

If it doesn't get raced for a few years - fine..., I'd rather that than have it turned into just another yacht race

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this will all play out nicely for ETNZ.

 

OD boats with Ashby and Burling incharge. I know who'd I'd back with a level playing field.

 

Lower campaign cost = less need for govt funding.

 

Just quietly I think ETNZ wouldn't mind this.

 

I'd still back Ashby and Burling to beat Oracles boat being driven remotely by some computer geek sitting on land....

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Yes, but we saw that even in the strictly OD ESS when Alinghi was outclassing the fleet. Nothing new there, they will dominate the GC32 fleet too.

Not so sure about that. Yann and his team are a lot more up on the latest and greatest than Morgan and Ernesto and the boys. Remember - Alinghi have only been sailing comparatively ancient designs for the past three years; D35 and X40.

I'll take LR - aren't they in as well?

 

...perhaps all they will be in: a GC32.

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Better yet, The GC32 class adopts a solid wing, LR leaves the cup to race Alinghi and makes the Annual GC32 class more exciting than the AC, with it's "regatta" every 4 years that only interrupts the prolonged court battles and rule changes.

 

Watching Solid wing GC32s for multiple seasons between now and the next AC? ... UM... why would anyone care about the AC? I wanted to see the Italians win, Just because Luna Rossa Paranha is most fun boat name to say, I don't care if they win the AC or the GC32 circuit, as the AC has become somewhat meaningless.... Well, the AC is the Pinnacle of something, just not yacht racing...

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If cost cutting is the driver, a solid wing GC32 class would be appealing to all of the AC teams. Sponsors would be more likely to back an annual circuit vs the AC crazypants. Looks like Alinghi had the right idea. RC is going to look stupid when the AC boats don't deliver a "spectacle" when compared to a solid wing GC32. I bet they would look the same on you tube.

 

Better yet, make the GC32 circuit trophy an exact replica of the America's cup, except 2x as big! The money saved on the boats could be used to buy a bigger pickle dish.

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...yacht racers.

If the AC is the Pinnacle of Yacht Racers then we really are just a bunch of douche bags. WTF am I doing? Going to the YC bar every night to drink a 1/5 scotch with douche bags. To hell with this sailing, I'm getting a new hobby and a new group of friends, maybe a gun club or a survivalist group, which undoubtedly will mean spending time with people of a higher ilk

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It does kind of make sense that Oracle seemed like they have been twiddling their thumbs and Luna Rossa have been putting in the major time and effort.

 

With the increased beam to length and better foil development and control I think we could see improved VMG round the course...

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I'd say Luna Rossa is still playing catch up in terms of design/technology, if not with boat handling as well.

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...yacht racers.

If the AC is the Pinnacle of Yacht Racers then we really are just a bunch of douche bags. WTF am I doing? Going to the YC bar every night to drink a 1/5 scotch with douche bags. To hell with this sailing, I'm getting a new hobby and a new group of friends, maybe a gun club or a survivalist group, which undoubtedly will mean spending time with people of a higher ilk
Gonna have a Scotch and think about that...

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the AC should be a battle of the billionaires in the most outrageous boats that money can buy

 

That's what I want to see

 

I'm not that interested in "sustainability"

 

If it doesn't get raced for a few years - fine..., I'd rather that than have it turned into just another yacht race

+1

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I'd say Luna Rossa is still playing catch up in terms of design/technology, if not with boat handling as well.

Why boat handling? They've been putting some time in.

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the AC should be a battle of the billionaires in the most outrageous boats that money can buy

 

That's what I want to see

 

I'm not that interested in "sustainability"

 

If it doesn't get raced for a few years - fine..., I'd rather that than have it turned into just another yacht race

+1

 

 

Maybe Luna Rossa can show up with a 62, and evaryone else can show up with a a smaller boat, and the two boat types can race PHRF!

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I'd say Luna Rossa is still playing catch up in terms of design/technology, if not with boat handling as well.

Why boat handling? They've been putting some time in.

 

Luna rossa was behind oracle and enz, but as a team they have more experience than the french, BAR, Oracle 2, and Artemis. Perhaps they have a shot at ENZ, Perhaps not, but I bet they have been working rather hard on the design side to catch up.

 

But really, who cares?

 

get a solid wing on the GC32, and watch Alighini, Luna Rossa, Gitana, Spindrift, Argo (the melges 32 team that ran over a bunch of optis in italy last year) and hopefully SAP battle it out every year in exciting foiling cat racing.

 

Meanwhile Oracle will be in the corner with their Merica's cup wondering why nobody cares anymore about the rule changes, the court battles, the cheating, and the venue changes that occurr in between the sailboat races that happen every 4 years.

 

After the GC32s take off and we see some killer racing from that effort, the AC will be seen in a very harsh light.

 

Actually, I think we should freeze RC in carbonite like han solo in the empire strikes back, and have him serve as the GC32 trophy. Then watch Alighini, luna Rossa and Dean Barker's foiler fueled with rage battle it out to take RC home, just to have the pleasure of peeing on him anytime the mood strikes.

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Better yet, The GC32 class adopts a solid wing, LR leaves the cup to race Alinghi and makes the Annual GC32 class more exciting than the AC, with it's "regatta" every 4 years that only interrupts the prolonged court battles and rule changes.

 

Watching Solid wing GC32s for multiple seasons between now and the next AC? ... UM... why would anyone care about the AC? I wanted to see the Italians win, Just because Luna Rossa Paranha is most fun boat name to say, I don't care if they win the AC or the GC32 circuit, as the AC has become somewhat meaningless.... Well, the AC is the Pinnacle of something, just not yacht racing...

You know what? That's an excellent idea! À malin, malin et demi :D : outdoing "them" in trivializing the event, and spending peanuts! Might involve Mike Turner in, as well. Long shot, but I think I'll try to float the idea. Also, not being bound by the DoG, you could really have fleet racing - much more spectacular that match races

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^

 

There is also a Louis Vuitton Cup spare at the moment. Could talk to Bruno maybe. Wouldn't that be a kick in the guts to RC.

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Better yet, The GC32 class adopts a solid wing, LR leaves the cup to race Alinghi and makes the Annual GC32 class more exciting than the AC, with it's "regatta" every 4 years that only interrupts the prolonged court battles and rule changes.

 

Watching Solid wing GC32s for multiple seasons between now and the next AC? ... UM... why would anyone care about the AC? I wanted to see the Italians win, Just because Luna Rossa Paranha is most fun boat name to say, I don't care if they win the AC or the GC32 circuit, as the AC has become somewhat meaningless.... Well, the AC is the Pinnacle of something, just not yacht racing...

You know what? That's an excellent idea! À malin, malin et demi :D : outdoing "them" in trivializing the event, and spending peanuts! Might involve Mike Turner in, as well. Long shot, but I think I'll try to float the idea. Also, not being bound by the DoG, you could really have fleet racing - much more spectacular that match races

 

The whole idea of the GC32 is to bring the excitement of foiling while keeping operating costs reasonable. Fitting wings on them would be ... just about the stupidest thing to do. You would dramatically increase operating costs while reducing the boat's versatility. For what? To be more like the AC? Nobody except a few diehard AC addicts know about that and even less care.

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so...here is the proposal.

 

One design hull (including board and rudder cases)

One design wing

open foils

open rudder

 

48 feet long

Hulls and wings built by each team

Strict manufacturing controls by ACEA (on site inspection, bar coded parts, everything weighed, etc)

Teams allowed to purchase platform, wings from other teams (maybe just 'assembled in their country', but not sure anyone cares about country of origin anymore

Auckland?

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That's the next joke in the saga. RC will keep that as a bargaining chip with ETNZ. (And fuck in the ass BA, FC and Artemis in the process.)

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Considering that:
- The idea that the AC had to be sustainable isn't new by any stretch of the imagination.
- The idea of having at least some elements of the boats being OD was floating around even before AC34 was completed.
- The idea of ditching AC62 for a smaller boat was already suggested as soon as the AC62 rule was published.

The notion that the defender suddenly has this brilliant idea in the name of sustainability is ridiculous. If sustainability really was on their agenda they would have introduced these existing ideas during their negotiations with HIYC who would have no doubt been very receptive. The fact that the defender was justifying the exorbitant inscription fees as a way to select challengers with the means to compete just adds more insult to insult.

AC35 looks more and more like a true "retour aux souces" for the AC. Those glorious matches held before WWI where venue, race format and rules were continuously amended if not completely overhauled to keep the challengers of balance.

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Ah. So by cost and economically viable they mean the cost to transport the boats round the world making a circuit economically viable.

 

So basically they are after an OD look-a-like of a real AC boat that will fit in a 40ft container. May be they can let the paymaster do some of the sailing?

 

Really surprised by your support for this Clean, given how much you hate on the RC44.

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Considering that:

- The idea that the AC had to be sustainable isn't new by any stretch of the imagination.

- The idea of having at least some elements of the boats being OD was floating around even before AC34 was completed.

- The idea of ditching AC62 for a smaller boat was already suggested as soon as the AC62 rule was published.

 

The notion that the defender suddenly has this brilliant idea in the name of sustainability is ridiculous. If sustainability really was on their agenda they would have introduced these existing ideas during their negotiations with HIYC who would have no doubt been very receptive. The fact that the defender was justifying the exorbitant inscription fees as a way to select challengers with the means to compete just adds more insult to insult.

 

AC35 looks more and more like a true "retour aux souces" for the AC. Those glorious matches held before WWI where venue, race format and rules were continuously amended if not completely overhauled to keep the challengers of balance.

 

Sustainable for who? The AC is sustainable. Competitors come and go but it's been competed for regularly for 150 years.

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Considering that:

- The idea that the AC had to be sustainable isn't new by any stretch of the imagination.

- The idea of having at least some elements of the boats being OD was floating around even before AC34 was completed.

- The idea of ditching AC62 for a smaller boat was already suggested as soon as the AC62 rule was published.

 

The notion that the defender suddenly has this brilliant idea in the name of sustainability is ridiculous. If sustainability really was on their agenda they would have introduced these existing ideas during their negotiations with HIYC who would have no doubt been very receptive. The fact that the defender was justifying the exorbitant inscription fees as a way to select challengers with the means to compete just adds more insult to insult.

 

AC35 looks more and more like a true "retour aux souces" for the AC. Those glorious matches held before WWI where venue, race format and rules were continuously amended if not completely overhauled to keep the challengers of balance.

 

Sustainable for who? The AC is sustainable. Competitors come and go but it's been competed for regularly for 150 years.

 

As if you didn't know that by sustainable these guys mean economically viable, and don't ask me to make any sense of that.

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Sustainable for who? The AC is sustainable. Competitors come and go but it's been competed for regularly for 150 years.

Doesn't mean it's going to continue that way.

 

"If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change."

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Economically viable for them selves you mean. While change it into the game they have hegemony over.

 

But the game they like to play and are good at is the sailors game. It's not the game of sailing in its totality.

 

The Americas Cup is the game of sailing in it's totality. May be the current holders can't agree on how to play the total game with in their means. That's fine. The DoG is pretty clear. Give it up to someone who can.

 

There is one group that stands to gain out of the creation of an Americas Cuppish around the sailors game. It's not the holder. It's sure as shit not the challengers. Judging by football, motor sport or just about any other professional sport it's not going to be the "team (charity d)owner". The only gain is going to be in the amount the sailors get to trouser. Who ever designs the OD for this has shit mightily on his profession from a great height.

 

ODs become stale and die. While a winning team chooses to stay put they tend to dominate. Someone has to get physically to broken down for there to be a change in the guard and in sailing that can take a very long time.

 

It takes 3-4 years to design an new boat that will totally kill everything that went before. It takes decades for a new star sailor to appear at Cup level.

 

One hope was that the boats would be physically so challenging that it took youth and vigour to sail them. No sign of RC on the water Dalts getting eased in the last AC was a real positive on that score. F' that if it goes back to 45ft.

 

The Americas Cuppish is going to rejuvenate a lot slower than the Americas Cup did that;s for sure.

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Sustainable for who? The AC is sustainable. Competitors come and go but it's been competed for regularly for 150 years.

Doesn't mean it's going to continue that way.

 

"If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change."

 

The Americas Cup changes all the time. It's an OD Americas Cuppish that's going to be static.

 

Jesus, they'll be talking about boats lasting multiple cup cycles next. Just you watch.

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Sustainable for who? The AC is sustainable. Competitors come and go but it's been competed for regularly for 150 years.

Doesn't mean it's going to continue that way.

 

"If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change."

 

The Americas Cup changes all the time. It's an OD Americas Cuppish that's going to be static.

 

Not if you change the OD elements at every match. For example moving to an open wing for AC36. And it would not be more static than the J era, the 12mR era, or the ACC era.

 

Edit And yes it would make older boats useable as trial horses for the next edition

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rudders are already open for AC35.

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Here's an experiment to try at home.

 

Draw 2 identical looking boats on a piece of paper. OK OK if you like make one black with a few red bits on it and the other one black with a few different red bits on it .. not to many mind, in a conservative sport like professional sailing you can't be different. Show them to a random group of none sailors. Tell them that the boats are having a race and ask them if they are interested in who wins.

 

Now make some changes to the hull and sails of one, may be make one a totally different colour, and repeat.

 

With out explaining back story and who the sailors are (which I had to to my missus before she took an interest in Olympic sailing) which race did the general public respond to?

 

It's like the latest Volvo where Vestas made an impact on public support more or less because it was a distinctive color from the orange/red ones.

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Not if you change the OD elements at every match. For example moving to an open wing for AC36. And it would not be more static than the J era, the 12mR era, or the ACC era.

 

Edit And yes it would make older boats useable as trial horses for the next edition

 

It;s a fair suggestion. Fingers crossed.

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Here's an experiment to try at home.

 

Draw 2 identical looking boats on a piece of paper. OK OK if you like make one black with a few red bits on it and the other one black with a few different red bits on it .. not to many mind, in a conservative sport like professional sailing you can't be different. Show them to a random group of none sailors. Tell them that the boats are having a race and ask them if they are interested in who wins.

 

Now make some changes to the hull and sails of one, may be make one a totally different colour, and repeat.

 

With out explaining back story and who the sailors are (which I had to to my missus before she took an interest in Olympic sailing) which race did the general public respond to?

 

It's like the latest Volvo where Vestas made an impact on public support more or less because it was a distinctive color from the orange/red ones.

 

 

And your point is?

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And your point is?

To make this economically sustainable they are going to need to maximise interest. That means flogging this to punters who don't know much about sailing. Whether thats corporate punters or public punters via the media and/or public event venue hype doesn't really matter. Even on a dinghy the actual sailors are almost indistinguishable. To draw interest you need visual difference.

 

F1 still gets this. The cars are different shapes and different colours (some season more than others admittedly). There are OD bits like engines but they are not the most visible bits. The proposal for the Americas Cuppish is focused on the internal game. In terms of economic sustainability the last thing you'd do is make the hull and wig OD and the foils open. You'd do it the other way around. You'd make the lease publicly visible elements OD first and the hull and wing last.

 

And then there are the level 2 gimps for whom the sailors game is still impenetrable (and jargon filled and seriously hard to explain to a casual sailors let alone none sailors). Lets call them the Clarksons. If there are design differences that can prattle on about them until the cows come home. No design differences, no Jame May.

 

All that creates the buzz that the real money wants to be seen around. No buzz, no honey pot.

 

(appologies for all the typos)

 

PS and you'd salary cap the sailors before making the hull an wing OD. You'll just be shifting cost rather than removing it otherwise.

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And your point is?

To make this economically sustainable they are going to need to maximise interest. That means flogging this to punters who don't know much about sailing. Whether thats corporate punters or public punters via the media and/or public event venue hype doesn't really matter. Even on a dinghy the actual sailors are almost indistinguishable. To draw interest you need visual difference.

 

It seems to me that AC yachts have been painted in very disinctive ways and/or using very evocative names for quite some time. So nothing new.

 

 

F1 still gets this. The cars are different shapes and different colours (some season more than others admittedly). There are OD bits like engines but they are not the most visible bits. The proposal for the Americas Cuppish is focused on the internal game. In terms of economic sustainability the last thing you'd do is make the hull and wig OD and the foils open. You'd do it the other way around. You'd make the lease publicly visible elements OD first and the hull and wing last.

 

F1 cars are barely distinguishable from their shapes. Most people, even knowledgeable ones would not be able to distinguish them at a distance if they were all the same color and F1 engines are definitely NOT OD, they follow something ackin to a box rule. The general shapes of open wings would probably be hardly distinguishable for the untrained eye (compare ETNZ,OTUSA and Artemis AC72 wings, they aren't that different). It's the paint job on them that will make them distinguishable.

 

And then there are the level 2 gimps for whom the sailors game is still impenetrable (and jargon filled and seriously hard to explain to a casual sailors let alone none sailors). Lets call them the Clarksons. If there are design differences that can prattle on about them until the cows come home. No design differences, no Jame May.

 

They can still prattle around the design of the foils. And I've never met anyone prattling about design differences and for whom the sailors game was impenetrable.

 

All that creates the buzz that the real money wants to be seen around. No buzz, no honey pot.

 

What real money are you talking about`? Corporate sponsors want an audience to see their advertizement on the boats. Billionaires just want to boast their egos. Aristocrats and Jet-Setters want the right crowd but no crowding. As for the buzz, did you hear any buzz arising from the shape of the wings in AC72?

 

(appologies for all the typos)

 

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The same engines are in multiple cars.

 

Variation on black and red for far to long. Thank god for Luna ... oh they are leaving aren't they?

 

Yes. That real money and that buzz. An yes, a lot of the noise around AC34 came from discussion on rear beam fairing, wing control systems etc. More than whether the left was really favored up the first half of the beat by a very very long margin.

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The same engines are in multiple cars.

Which doesn't mean they all have the same, and even less that they are OD

 

Variation on black and red for far to long. Thank god for Luna ... oh they are leaving aren't they?

 

Ferrari has been of various variations of red for a very long time and Mercedes has been of various shades of grey for just as long. And the fans likey that. There is even a team having nothing to do with Colin Chapman who calls itself Lotus and mimics the JPS color scheme to attract attention

 

Yes. That real money and that buzz.

Which real money and associated buzz? I gave you three completely different money types and associated buzz

 

An yes, a lot of the noise around AC34 came from discussion on rear beam fairing, wing control systems etc. More than whether the left was really favored up the first half of the beat by a very very long margin

Ah, I see. You meant buzz on this forum. The general public was talking about the likes of Big Blue and Big Red,

 

.

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Don't know. I wasn't on the forum at the time due to all the trolling. But all the talk between sailor friends and the heads who jollied over to the event for a look see was more about the "massive wing things with fairing on the back of one" and whether BA really was a "national hero for single handedly saving the colonists from disaster" or not.

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So you start with

"To make this economically sustainable they are going to need to maximise interest. That means flogging this to punters who don't know much about sailing."

 

to end up with

"But all the talk between sailor friends and the heads who jollied over to the event for a look see was more about the "massive wing things with fairing on the back of one" and whether BA really was a "national hero for single handedly saving the colonists from disaster" or not."

 

And somehow what you discuss with sailor friends is relevant to the way to attract people who don't know much about sailing, and sailors wouldn't have anything to babble about if the wing is OD.

 

I'll leave you with your contradictions.

 

Edit: Just one more food for thought. Motorsport in general has attracted crowds in masses for over a century, and it took F1 over 50 years to get to its peek and now has been loosing audiences for years.

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That's not entirely a contradiction ;)

 

So the more they have moved motor sport towards limiting the design so car companies can make money out of it the less popular it has become. That's interesting.

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^ All?

 

Problem with the 2 trustees south of the equator was?

Maybe a niggle here a there, but went off as advertised.

Nothing like the FUBAR ^

Chalk and cheese

 

Can't say much about the Aussies, but the NZ trustees were the ones to allow YC's from Switzerland to challenge for the Cup didn't they? That decision has had some lasting ramifications for the AC, IMO.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

 

Nope, they were not the first to allow a Swiss Team to compete.....

 

20093.jpg

http://www.americas-cup-history.at/english/sui%2059%20be%20happy.htm

 

...but I agree the consequences, that are still flowing, from the 2nd Swiss Challenge are - 'unfortunate'!

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That's not entirely a contradiction ;)

 

So the more they have moved motor sport towards limiting the design so car companies can make money out of it the less popular it has become. That's interesting.

 

Engine specs have been limited for ... ever in formula 1 and major manufacturers never made a dime out of it. On the other hand, Cosworth and it's DFV, made a ton of money powering almost the whole grid during the glorious 70s, and March and their chassis did quite well thank you very much. Those were the years when it really grew in the eyes of the public at large. Very doubtful the crowds were or are attracted primarily by technology.

 

More generally, I would suggest stop using motorsport as a comparison. It has a very special place in the public at large and there is nobody to play the role in sailing that auto manufacturers play in motorsport.

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^ All?

 

Problem with the 2 trustees south of the equator was?

Maybe a niggle here a there, but went off as advertised.

Nothing like the FUBAR ^

Chalk and cheese

 

Can't say much about the Aussies, but the NZ trustees were the ones to allow YC's from Switzerland to challenge for the Cup didn't they? That decision has had some lasting ramifications for the AC, IMO.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

 

Nope, they were not the first to allow a Swiss Team to compete.....

 

20093.jpg

http://www.americas-cup-history.at/english/sui%2059%20be%20happy.htm

 

...but I agree the consequences, that are still flowing, from the 2nd Swiss Challenge are - 'unfortunate'!

 

Well actually, Fast2000 competed in ... 2000. I.e. when RNZYS was already the defender. :)

 

That been said, wouldn't preventing a Swiss yacht club, or an Austrian yacht club for that matter, from competing under the pretense that they are landlocked countries fly in face of the long honored AC tradition of friendly competition among nations?

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^ All?

 

Problem with the 2 trustees south of the equator was?

Maybe a niggle here a there, but went off as advertised.

Nothing like the FUBAR ^

Chalk and cheese

Can't say much about the Aussies, but the NZ trustees were the ones to allow YC's from Switzerland to challenge for the Cup didn't they? That decision has had some lasting ramifications for the AC, IMO.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

Nope, they were not the first to allow a Swiss Team to compete.....

 

20093.jpg

http://www.americas-cup-history.at/english/sui%2059%20be%20happy.htm

 

...but I agree the consequences, that are still flowing, from the 2nd Swiss Challenge are - 'unfortunate'!

Ah, the Be Happy folks and their SUI-59 challenged in 2000. In New Zealand. Pretty sure the RNZYS was trustee for that cycle.

 

It was the next cycle RNZYS compounded their dumb decision letting in the Be Happy folk by significantly altering the nationality rule for the crew.

 

Add to things that ugly double knuckle bow development for the IACC boats and not a lot of positives came out of RNZYS's turn as trustee.

 

WetHog

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It was the next cycle RNZYS compounded their dumb decision letting in the Be Happy folk by significantly altering the nationality rule for the crew.

 

Add to things that ugly double knuckle bow development for the IACC boats and not a lot of positives came out of RNZYS's turn as trustee.

 

WetHog

 

Well it's not like the defender can set all the rules in a MC match, the CoR (beleive it or not it was the NYYC) does have his say and the DoG says nothing about the crew. After all America was manned by a substantial number of Brits and guided around the Isle of White by a British pilot :)

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and guided around the Isle of White by a British pilot :)

 

 

"Just nip through there old chum. Plenty of water for a center boarder like your good self."

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By BA

--

 

Sir Ben Ainslie: We need an America's Cup with long-term future and must make changes despite big team protests I do not just think this is a good idea, I think it is essential. Without making radical changes, the America's Cup will never reach its potential commercially

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/sailing/11504747/Sir-Be-Ainslie-We-need-an-Americas-Cup-with-long-term-future-and-must-make-changes-despite-big-team-protests.html

 

What a bullshit article. Somehow the AC has survived and limped along for decades without a defined commercial element (although Ernesto did a pretty damn good job with Valencia). What is the AC? Two boats, a body of water, and an agreement on the rules. Long term future? Make it unique enough to stand out from the crowd. Going to smaller boats probably isn't the solution, and eventually some local government will have a better lawyer and contract in hand.

 

SF did a pretty good job protecting themselves from Larry's commercialization effort, and it's good in hindsight that they didn't roll over on everything.

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so...here is the proposal.

 

One design hull (including board and rudder cases)

One design wing

open foils

open rudder

 

48 feet long

Hulls and wings built by each team

Strict manufacturing controls by ACEA (on site inspection, bar coded parts, everything weighed, etc)

Teams allowed to purchase platform, wings from other teams (maybe just 'assembled in their country', but not sure anyone cares about country of origin anymore

 

Any word on the vote yet? [Presently 11 AM EDT 03/31/2015]

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By BA

--

 

Sir Ben Ainslie: We need an America's Cup with long-term future and must make changes despite big team protests I do not just think this is a good idea, I think it is essential. Without making radical changes, the America's Cup will never reach its potential commercially

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/sailing/11504747/Sir-Be-Ainslie-We-need-an-Americas-Cup-with-long-term-future-and-must-make-changes-despite-big-team-protests.html

 

What a bullshit article. Somehow the AC has survived and limped along for decades without a defined commercial element (although Ernesto did a pretty damn good job with Valencia). What is the AC? Two boats, a body of water, and an agreement on the rules. Long term future? Make it unique enough to stand out from the crowd. Going to smaller boats probably isn't the solution, and eventually some local government will have a better lawyer and contract in hand.

 

SF did a pretty good job protecting themselves from Larry's commercialization effort, and it's good in hindsight that they didn't roll over on everything.

 

 

Ah! At last a description of the AC without the "pinacle of yachting" bullshit.

 

Edit: on the other hand, agreeing on the 12mR rule, if not a commercial decision, was definitely a cost cutting one. And nobody can say if the AC would have resurrected after WWII without that move.

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It does kind of make sense that Oracle seemed like they have been twiddling their thumbs and Luna Rossa have been putting in the major time and effort.

 

...

 

Huh? OR actually developed essentially a whole new boat for testing, and was testing it probably more than LR had been with their barely modified 45s. Further, you and I have no idea how much design work either team did for their AC62s . . . I would bet no one has been doing more than OR.

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I agree with rgeek's point that visual differences between the boats make it more interesting, particularly for the non-fanatics that the sport is trying to attract to make the sport more sustainable. The idea that they have to OD the platform does not sit well with me, as they are already dramatically reducing costs by going sub-50', and one of the funnest thing when a new boat is debuted is seeing what it LOOKS like. I know, and the rest of us fanatics know that the real meat & potatoes is in the foils, but still, the LOOKS are part of the fun. I date to say that when OR debuted boat 1 for AC34, the baddest ass thing was seeing how different it looked with the center pod and extreme bows & aero bits compared to ETNZ & AR-Red. While the foils are arguably the most important parts, we are all going to be VERY hard pressed to be able to SEE any differences between the boats in that respect.

 

Further, I contest that the platforms would actually represent more of a factor than people think for these boats as they regularly face apparent wind of more than 35knts on upwind beats, with aerodynamics becoming very important.

 

Finally, having the platforms open would be more consistent with the CIC component of the Deed.

 

The wings, on the other hand, do make sense to be OD, as they are the most fragile bits of the boats, and having common spares around would make it possible to be a bit more free on racing in hotter conditions, as well as possibly allowing teams to sail more aggressively, knowing that a PP is not going to knock them out of the entire event. Save a TON of money not having to design and build those wings.

 

Go OD on the wings, if they must (I think just shortening the boat to whatever they feel to make sense should be enough), but leave the platform, foils & rudders open. Hopefully someone comes up with even more new ideas where the boats look different, as they did in AC34.

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Ah! At last a description of the AC without the "pinacle of yachting" bullshit.

 

Edit: on the other hand, agreeing on the 12mR rule, if not a commercial decision, was definitely a cost cutting one. And nobody can say if the AC would have resurrected after WWII without that move.

 

Muther f*ckin boats and you have it.

 

As was the J-Class before it. But they both had the distinction of being the biggest baddest boat being sailed in just enough numbers to make a race out of it ... and being open rules that retained the design element.

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Bear in mind that 2 of the 'advantages' that OD could offer the AC (if you're that way inclined) are cost savings through mass production and exact duplicates.

If what Clean has been suggesting comes to bear they will realise neither of these!

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http://sailinganarchy.com/tag/ac48/

 

On one hand, they have an edict from Larry to ‘make the event self-supporting’, in other words, MAXIMUM CASH INTAKE, and hence, Bermuda’s $72M in cash and prizes. On the other hand, Larry and Russell want to see an event with a long-term future, in other words, maximum public, TV and sponsor interest – which would mean a major population center in a transportation hub with tons of media. That ain’t Bermuda, and that’s all you need to know about Ellison’s priorities.

 

Ellison's priority is to replace Dennis Conner as Mr. America's Cup. Full stop.

Which means not letting anyone get as close as NZ got in SF.

He's happy to beat up on patsies to do it.

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Ah. So by cost and economically viable they mean the cost to transport the boats round the world making a circuit economically viable.

 

So basically they are after an OD look-a-like of a real AC boat that will fit in a 40ft container. May be they can let the paymaster do some of the sailing?

 

Really surprised by your support for this Clean, given how much you hate on the RC44.

 

I think the RC44 is great for an infinitesimally small audience of billionaires who want to race without having to talk to any commoners. Good tool for the job.

 

I think a foiling AC48 has great potential to provide exciting and compelling spectacle, so long as Russell Coutts isn't allowed to turn it into a giant fucking failure again.

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So you start with

"To make this economically sustainable they are going to need to maximise interest. That means flogging this to punters who don't know much about sailing."

 

to end up with

"But all the talk between sailor friends and the heads who jollied over to the event for a look see was more about the "massive wing things with fairing on the back of one" and whether BA really was a "national hero for single handedly saving the colonists from disaster" or not."

 

And somehow what you discuss with sailor friends is relevant to the way to attract people who don't know much about sailing, and sailors wouldn't have anything to babble about if the wing is OD.

 

I'll leave you with your contradictions.

 

Edit: Just one more food for thought. Motorsport in general has attracted crowds in masses for over a century, and it took F1 over 50 years to get to its peek and now has been loosing audiences for years.

F who?

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Ah. So by cost and economically viable they mean the cost to transport the boats round the world making a circuit economically viable.

 

So basically they are after an OD look-a-like of a real AC boat that will fit in a 40ft container. May be they can let the paymaster do some of the sailing?

 

Really surprised by your support for this Clean, given how much you hate on the RC44.

I think the RC44 is great for an infinitesimally small audience of billionaires who want to race without having to talk to any commoners. Good tool for the job.

 

I think a foiling AC48 has great potential to provide exciting and compelling spectacle, so long as Russell Coutts isn't allowed to turn it into a giant fucking failure again.

Would we all could fail as he.

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OR actually developed essentially a whole new boat for testing, and was testing it probably more than LR had been with their barely modified 45s.

 

I don't think it is possible for you to be more wrong. Where do you get this shit?

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Ah. So by cost and economically viable they mean the cost to transport the boats round the world making a circuit economically viable.

 

So basically they are after an OD look-a-like of a real AC boat that will fit in a 40ft container. May be they can let the paymaster do some of the sailing?

 

Really surprised by your support for this Clean, given how much you hate on the RC44.

I think the RC44 is great for an infinitesimally small audience of billionaires who want to race without having to talk to any commoners. Good tool for the job.

 

I think a foiling AC48 has great potential to provide exciting and compelling spectacle, so long as Russell Coutts isn't allowed to turn it into a giant fucking failure again.

 

Would we all could fail as he.

 

He hasn't been successful on Cleans level but he has a few more years to try.

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http://sailinganarchy.com/tag/ac48/

 

On one hand, they have an edict from Larry to make the event self-supporting, in other words, MAXIMUM CASH INTAKE, and hence, Bermudas $72M in cash and prizes. On the other hand, Larry and Russell want to see an event with a long-term future, in other words, maximum public, TV and sponsor interest which would mean a major population center in a transportation hub with tons of media. That aint Bermuda, and thats all you need to know about Ellisons priorities.

Ellison's priority is to replace Dennis Conner as Mr. America's Cup. Full stop.

Which means not letting anyone get as close as NZ got in SF.

He's happy to beat up on patsies to do it.

No no no.

 

Ellison is Iron Man - not Captain America.

 

Sheesh.

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so...here is the proposal.

 

One design hull (including board and rudder cases)

One design wing

open foils

open rudder

 

48 feet long

Hulls and wings built by each team

Strict manufacturing controls by ACEA (on site inspection, bar coded parts, everything weighed, etc)

Teams allowed to purchase platform, wings from other teams (maybe just 'assembled in their country', but not sure anyone cares about country of origin anymore

 

Any word on the vote yet? [Presently 11 AM EDT 03/31/2015]

 

 

Not sure, I'm packing

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No no no.

 

Ellison is Iron Man - not Captain America.

 

Sheesh.

 

Post of the day

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He hasn't been successful on Cleans level but he has a few more years to try.

 

 

I definitely haven't won anything like Russell, but then again I never threw $100M of anyone's money into the trash, nor did I humiliate my representative YC by stealing an event away from them, nor did I turn my name into something dirty in both my home nation and my adopted city.

 

I am curious, though, aldo - can you name some of Coutts' off-water successes? I am extremely curious as to who told Russell that his pro sailing and hydro engineering experience prepared him well for sports marketing. It certainly wasn't the RC44.

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an infinitesimally small audience of billionaires who want to race without having to talk to any commoners.

You have to admit. That does kind of sound like one version of the Cup.

 

An RC44 reboot has be an angle to watch at this point.

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an infinitesimally small audience of billionaires who want to race without having to talk to any commoners.

You have to admit. That does kind of sound like one version of the Cup.

 

That's the original tradition of the Cup.

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an infinitesimally small audience of billionaires who want to race without having to talk to any commoners.

You have to admit. That does kind of sound like one version of the Cup.

 

That's the original tradition of the Cup.

 

Kind of. Lipton and Sopworth where (very arguably) in it for social climbing and global brand exposure to the point that they didn't mind loosing.

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He hasn't been successful on Cleans level but he has a few more years to try.

I definitely haven't won anything like Russell, but then again I never threw $100M of anyone's money into the trash, nor did I humiliate my representative YC by stealing an event away from them, nor did I turn my name into something dirty in both my home nation and my adopted city.

 

I am curious, though, aldo - can you name some of Coutts' off-water successes? I am extremely curious as to who told Russell that his pro sailing and hydro engineering experience prepared him well for sports marketing. It certainly wasn't the RC44.

 

If you hadn't noticed,(re-read my comment)I was giving you a compliment.

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g-tran of

 

Le ultime ore di Luna Rossa?

--

 

Luna Rossa, do not withdraw! Large following and many comments on social and on this our news open. Interventions of sailors, characters and journalists. Ongoing negotiations before the vote. The key question: to change the rules of class serves unanimity? The opinion of Francesco De Angelis, and a leading expert, Richard Gladwell (from Sail-World.com). Participate with your messages. VIDEO AND PHOTOS: RED MOON STORY
Fabio Colivicchi
The last day of the Moon? We do not agree. We can not believe that they are the last 24 hours of Luna Rossa, the team sailing Italy's most famous is really forced to close its doors, throwing overboard not only the latest gorgeous 10 months of work, research, training and preparation for the 35 America's Cup, from corrersi with AC62 catamarans class according to rules agreed in June 2014, but somehow also the 17 years of life and history grew around five challenges between Auckland, Valencia, San Francisco. Yet today, the contestants will vote on the proposal called "cost-cutting" that in addition to the costs it also cut the size of the boats.
SUMMARY OF FACTS
Still, the departure of Luna Rossa is really just a step. The events of the last crazy, just a few days, have taken a turn that leaves little hope to the Italian team. Ricordiamole briefly. On March 25, an article on the website Americascup.com says that "competitors and organizers of the America's Cup are planning significant cost cuts" for participation in the America's Cup 2017. It is said that after seeing the AC45 fly on foil, many have convinced that we can race with smaller boats, saving a lot of money compared to the class decided in the Protocol, the AC62. Who speaks in quotes is the Commercial Commissioner in America's Cup Event Authority, Harvey Schiller (later we will talk about him more deeply ...).
The article seems to prefigure an agreement between all without problems. It is not so. It 'an ambush in Luna Rossa, unprecedented. A way to undo the tremendous advantage of time (the time America's Cup is one of the most valuable assets, perhaps decisive) of the Italian challenge, the first to take the field, to open a base, to train and to test dozens of configurations different, preparing the project dell'AC62 with which to bring the trophy in Italy. Luna Rossa, in fact, reacts: a terse statement, but definitive, says the team is not totally agree with the hypothesis ventilated, and that if it is not adhered to the principle of unanimity to change the rules of the class, or if a majority will decide to run the next Cup in 2017 with smaller boats, then "Luna Rossa will withdraw from XXXV America's Cup." In the statement, found yet published on Saily, you also said that Luna Rossa is not intended to drag the Cup in a Court.
Shortly after, while turning the global media discussion (Sailing Anarchy speaks of "April Fool, about the idea of ​​changing the class during the work, only to return later on his steps and accept the idea; Scuttlebutt remains incredulous and the window; in New Zealand, already shaken by the dismissal of Dean Barker, it swings awaiting the official position of Grant Dalton and Team; Bermuda mounts a protest but remains as submerged ...), she climbs the discussion short , comes from ACEA further acceleration. Another article, dated March 30, talks about the upcoming vote on the proposal of the competitors of "cost-cutting".
It is expected to vote Tuesday, probably time Californian, then later in the evening, or at night in Italy. The outcome of the vote will essentially Wednesday.
VOTE DISCOUNTED?
The vote seems marked: the action was well thought out and prepared for a long time. A preliminary interview of Harvey Schiller who spoke of "the future" of the America's Cup boats to ensure the same for everyone and some calendars, to bring the Cup to the great circuits type Formula 1 (aridaje). With ACEA and then Oracle (ie the usual ineffable Russell Coutts, again occult director of the story) are super-d'accordo Ben Ainslie (teammate in 34 Cup of Oracle), which has everything to gain in canceling the advantage Luna Rossa and run with the monotypes, he is the greatest living sailor ...; Artemis from Sweden (whose leadership today is Iain Percy, compatriot Ben Ainslie and the long arm of billionaire Tornqvist that the cup the following and badly); The French Team of France (in turn happy to return competitive from their legendary prowess multihull).
More uncertain the position of Team New Zealand, which for many months seems a weathervane and is exposed to any pressure because of its financial weakness. Grant Dalton has first taken a stand next to Luna Rossa, but now it's set back, why? The Government of New Zealand has just promised the refinancing of the challenge, in exchange for having the first phase of qualifying final in 2017 in Auckland. However the vote kiwi may already be irrelevant: if it passes the concept of the majority, it takes the three mentioned above to pass the revolution that would cut off Luna Rossa.
CLIMATE A RED MOON CITY
But is it really traced the road? These are the last hours of the Moon, before sunset? Cagliari, based Luna Rossa, live hours of torment. You work as if nothing had happened, to computers, to the gym, at sea, in the meeting rooms. But the weather may not be the usual. There is an awareness of last resort. Together with incredulity: how can finish everything in a few hours. More than 80 people working on the team for months. A base built on a pier assigned the port of Cagliari. A whole city in tow, enthusiasm in the crowded open-day basis. And the first stage of the upcoming World Series, in early June, largely pre-organized with the involvement of institutions, military and civil authorities, not to mention the deals, B & B, packages ...
Only a week ago, at the entrance of Luna Rossa AC72 in the Science Museum of Milan, the skipper and CEO Max Sirena still swelled his chest: "We are on course, we respect the schedule, we want to win the America's Cup and bring it in Italy" . And today? How to prepare the day after Max Sirena?
That mistake NOT BECOME CHALLENGER OF RECORD ...
Latest considerations, before opening a unique "situation room" on Saily. Some have pointed out that Luna Rossa today is also on the ropes because of an error. Some months ago, when the challenger of record Australian retired, the Italian challenge had the opportunity to take over the role of representative of the challengers. Oracle would discuss with the protocol, and all this perhaps could have been avoided.
Another element in the discussion at this time: the cup with smaller boats not lost a spectacle? Imagine racing in the Bay of Bermuda with AC62 and AC45 then with monotypes or 48 that are. Fly, maybe at speeds similar, but give the same TV picture? Here the sailing world is divided, and even some people change your mind from day to day. Surely the Cup without Luna Rossa and Team New Zealand might not lose sight and protagonists. Even if, as seems certain, the downsizing of boats and costs will facilitate the entry of new teams (the announced with great fanfare the same Russell Coutts), from Japanese one that seems to be about to make the official announcement ...
'JUST A WAR AGAINST LIGHTNING RED MOON
To me all this continues to seem just a blitzkrieg, studied at the table, to bring out the real enemy: Luna Rossa, who put so had already half-cup in his pocket. Luna Rossa not go to court: even better. That withdraws: perfect! There are other "values" in this action. Above all there is the economic one: since when the America's Cup is a competition to everyone? Since when do you have to do "cost-cutting" in the portfolios of people like Larry Ellison or Torben Tornqvist? It 'a hypocrisy that goes unmasked. How's unmasked man put to manage the business aspects of the Copa America, Mr. Harvey Schiller.
WHO 'HARVEY SCHILLER
Schiller, the military college in South Carolina and a doctorate in chemistry in Michigan, began his career in wrestling (health!), Then in 2007 he was president of the new International Baseball Federation, tried to bring the baseball to the Olympics but lost the battle with the IOC, which did not prevent him, however in 2011 to become a member of the same CIO (Women and Sport Commission). E 'was also vice president of Turner Sports (network that owns the rights to major sports circuits), chief executive of the basketball team Yankees Nets. There's more: ours is also CEO of Global Options Group, an international risk management and business solutions. And is president of Sports Media & Entertainment for Diversified Search, one of the top executive search firms in the US (http://www.diversifiedsearch.com/ManagingDirectors.aspx?PAValue=sports%2C%20media%20and%20entertainment&OfficeValue=). A tad of conflict of interest, do not you think? Put so much experience at the helm of the Copa America and here's the result. For the umpteenth time you compare with other sports circuits (cars, motorcycles, basketball ...), forgetting that sailing is sailing, the America's Cup is the America's Cup. Different things. That will never be like other sports. With all due respect to Harvey and all.
BACK TO RED MOON: THE POSSIBILITY '
What room for maneuver has Luna Rossa now? Announced the withdrawal is that the non-recourse to the Supreme Court is competent for the America's Cup. It can backtrack? Let us assume the two scenarios.
1) rating granted, class, Luna Rossa keeps point and retreats, more or less silent. You haul down the flag from the base of Cagliari, which starts to close. Skip stage in Sardinia America's Cup World Series (in this case with some legal consequence). The 80 employees of the challenge are walking, Max Sirena, Francesco Bruni, engineers, technicians, structural engineers, the yard, as the coach Bora Gulari or Pietro Sibello (another shot for this unfortunate Italian sailor of immense class), all in home. Cup enter the Japanese and maybe some emirate, and the circus again, more cheerful than before. Patrizio Bertelli not emulate Sir Thomas Lipton, his fifth challenge stops in the middle. I wonder how long before someone else thinks of an Italian challenge for the America's Cup.
2) rating granted, class. But Luna Rossa has second thoughts: does not retreat. Accept the news and remain on course. Try to assert the advantage of so many days at sea and in foiling most of its rivals, even without the AC62 with what might have been unbeatable. It 'a reduction, but it is still standing. The races of Cagliari you make and Italians are super-favorites for an auspicious triumph at home, which creates enthusiasm and fans. At the time this second scenario is very unlikely. But that hope has? It 'a matter of calculations, valuations. What do I lose and gain, in economic terms, of image, of seriousness, the two choices. A Luna Rossa city, at this time, you are thinking about this.
We want to help him decide?
--

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Went to the last AC in San Fran. GREAT time. Excited when i heard that it was going to be in the Bahamas. Not now, way too expensive, hell I can watch J24s race OD. This will be the demise of the America Cup!

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I preface this by saying is not yet April 1st in my part of the planet:

 

Your plan has turned to shit and you need another billionaire team - pick up the phone book and start at A......

 

Clean?........

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AC35AMERICAS CUP

Italians and Kiwis back in discussions, Americas Cup teams vote for the new boat but what are the choices?

Matthew SheahanMarch 31, 20150 Comments

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With Kiwis and Italians back at the negotiating table, Cup teams are expected to vote for a major change in the 35th Americas Cup on Wednesday where a new smaller boat will be agreed.

 

http://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/matthew-sheahan/americas-cup-teams-vote-for-the-new-boat-but-what-are-the-choices-63161

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"As long as we agree to some change, any change, we have a team pre-positioned (and funded) in the wings ready to enter - due to the 'vastly improved prospects'"

Coutts said.....

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This is all pre-season right? Someone please let me know when the sailing starts so I can base my moral indignation on something more spicey than contract language and unrealized expectations.

 

Koukel

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the AC should be a battle of the billionaires in the most outrageous boats that money can buy

 

That's what I want to see

 

I'm not that interested in "sustainability"

 

If it doesn't get raced for a few years - fine..., I'd rather that than have it turned into just another yacht race

^^^exactly^^^

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