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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
peterivanac

Team Australia

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22 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Your argument that AC50 reduce rock stars seems logical to me. Which is a powerful argument to keep the AC50 boats. I also think the nationality of crew rule will also reduce wages. Bad news for Australians and New Zealanders

 

15 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Yes because syndicates will be able to offer take it or leave it deals. For kiwis the only deal in town is ETNZ take their deal or be unemployed. 

Let me suggest a different scenario. If they stay in AC50's or other foiling cats, the skills needed to steer one mean there is only a limited number of sailors who could do it. Add a nationality rule and doesn't that then give certain stars the leverage they need to drive up their pay. It could end up along the lines of "pay me what i want or you have no challenge or have to settle for a second rate helm". Maybe in countries where there are more than one team, as suggested for the USA, it would create a bidding war to get the person perceived to be the best helm. No sailor has to go AC sailing. For many, if you don't pay them enough, they will take other sailing jobs.

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21 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

Making a rule about a salary cap is unworkable but there is nothing to stop a team from being formed by enthusiasts who are prepared to work for a minimum wage and develop the boat in the city of their residence until they need to move to the venue .. something like ETNZ did.  They are unlikely to win but they would have formed the basis of a team and if they do well they may well attract sponsorship for the next event.

Australia has massive talent and they could do it that way.

Talent is one thing and you're correct; there's plenty of that with relevant experience to go round. The big drawback for a future Aus team is administrative and figure-head talent. Their last attempt was an abject failure by any measure and left a sour taste in the mouths of those who stumped up the funds and then watched them pissed away by bad decisions and excessive executive greed. Those guys have long fiscal memories and didn't get to where they are in the corporate world by making the same mistakes more than once. Getting a new Aus tilt at the Cup happening will require new leadership and then some fast and compelling talking. 

 

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

A big question sailor-talent recruiting-wise may be in if the AC36 boat is an apparent-wind boat.

To go 'majestic' with jib changes, maybe even spinnaker handling etc, is just a completely different universe from fullout foiling multi monsters.

I'll put this in the drunk utter bollocks file....

48,668 posts...

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1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

Let me suggest a different scenario. If they stay in AC50's or other foiling cats, the skills needed to steer one mean there is only a limited number of sailors who could do it. Add a nationality rule and doesn't that then give certain stars the leverage they need to drive up their pay. It could end up along the lines of "pay me what i want or you have no challenge or have to settle for a second rate helm".

Yep that a good point, you have indicated a powerful problem with AC50 boats the helmsmen has to be a super skilled and could hold a syndicate hostage over pay. However if went back to monohulls then he supply of helmsmen would increase. I guess we could argue back and forth the merits of cats vs monohulls, but we will soon know in September.

Just out of Interest on a monohull how many super skilled people do you need on a boat

Initial List 

Helmsmen --star

Navigator --pleb with ipad and gps

Tactician  --star 

Trimmers (times two) ( Gib and Mainsail) --stars

Foredeck  --semi stars Use of Gennakers can reduce skill set in front of boat ( ie Ban spinnakers and use only  Gennakers  on bowsprit)

Grinders --plebs with strong legs use cyclors instead

Rail Crew  --plebs

I count 4 super stars and a couple really good professionals on the foredeck

 

On the other hand its the Americas Cup and everyone should be the best in their respective country for that syndicate. Yet to play the devils advocate look at the VOR they can hardly give away a free boat at the moment. Something needs to be done about cost. We don't want to cheapen it too a carnival but not so expensive that you need a 100 million dollars to play with. I believe a sensible compromise between these two points is 25 Million. 

 

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40 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Yep that a good point, you have indicated a powerful problem with AC50 boats the helmsmen has to be a super skilled and could hold a syndicate hostage over pay. However if went back to monohulls then he supply of helmsmen would increase. I guess we could argue back and forth the merits of cats vs monohulls, but we will soon know in September.

Just out of Interest on a monohull how many super skilled people do you need on a boat

Initial List 

Helmsmen --star

Navigator --pleb with ipad and gps

Tactician  --star 

Trimmers (times two) ( Gib and Mainsail) --stars

Foredeck  --semi stars Use of Gennakers can reduce skill set in front of boat ( ie Ban spinnakers and use only  Gennakers  on bowsprit)

Grinders --plebs with strong legs use cyclors instead

Rail Crew  --plebs

I count 4 super stars and a couple really good professionals on the foredeck

 

On the other hand its the Americas Cup and everyone should be the best in their respective country for that syndicate. Yet to play the devils advocate look at the VOR they can hardly give away a free boat at the moment. Something needs to be done about cost. We don't want to cheapen it too a carnival but not so expensive that you need a 100 million dollars to play with. I believe a sensible compromise between these two points is 25 Million. 

 

I don't know about using cyclors on a mono hull .. You would need to mount them on gimbles or something.

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5 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

A big question sailor-talent recruiting-wise may be in if the AC36 boat is an apparent-wind boat.

To go 'majestic' with jib changes, maybe even spinnaker handling etc, is just a completely different universe from fullout foiling multi monsters.

Indeed it is, Stinger. And in your opinion, is that a good thing to a bad thing?

Personally, I'm all for more 'conventional' sailing.

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1 hour ago, Terry Hollis said:

I don't know about using cyclors on a mono hull .. You would need to mount them on gimbles or something.

It wasn't an issue when a cycle grinder was used in the AC back in the 12 days, so why would it be now?

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1 hour ago, Terry Hollis said:

I don't know about using cyclors on a mono hull .. You would need to mount them on gimbles or something.

hmm interesting and valid point which I hadn't thought about to be honest. I guess putting them into a special chair that wraps around their torso might work, I guess they would have to be strapped in as well. Even then...would not fun when heading into the wind with a good lean on. 

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1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

It wasn't an issue when a cycle grinder was used in the AC back in the 12 days, so why would it be now?

Interestingly that was the only example of cyclors in a mono hull .. they didn't do any good then and no one copied them until they were used on cats.

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6 hours ago, mako23 said:

hmm interesting and valid point which I hadn't thought about to be honest. I guess putting them into a special chair that wraps around their torso might work, I guess they would have to be strapped in as well. Even then...would not fun when heading into the wind with a good lean on. 

If you mounted them traversely across the hull it wouldn't be a problem. 

Then the cyclors would always just be pedalling up or down hill which is fairly natural.

Although they might want to crank them to windward for righting moment. 

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19 minutes ago, jaysper said:

If you mounted them traversely across the hull it wouldn't be a problem. 

Then the cyclors would always just be pedalling up or down hill which is fairly natural.

Although they might want to crank them to windward for righting moment. 

Good idea jaysper

One a big boat I dont think the righting moment would be a issue. If you had 4 of them you could have them back to back with 2 facing starboard and the other 2 facing port. If the rules stated that cyclors couldnt play any other role on the boat you could get  semi professional cyclists for chump change. You could put them inside the hull were they can do no harm to the running of the boat. I think KZ1 had grinders inside the hull

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^ A big fuckin turbo diesel would be the answer. Worked OK for ROXI for a while.

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14 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

^ A big fuckin turbo diesel would be the answer. Worked OK for ROXI for a while.

i rekon next ac should use the 50's again and just chuck a lawnmower motor in each hull, get a few guys lying inside the pod and thats it

just shit tones of monitors and buttons and it would be just like flying an aeroplane

and with no one in the open air, low aero drag

true formula 1 racing

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Iain Murray joins Australian Sailing as Performance Director

One of Australia's most accomplished sailors, Iain Murray has been appointed to the role of Performance Director of Australian Sailing according to a report on Fox Sport's website.

http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Iain-Murray-joins-Australian-Sailing-as-Performance-Director/156940

 

 

Large_iainwithcliff.jpg

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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/96458344/consortium-of-wealthy-aussies-eye-americas-cup-challenge-for-auckland-2021

 

 

Quote

 

Wealthy Australians eye America's Cup challenge for Auckland 2021

 

The prospect of Australia rejoining the America's Cup for Auckland 2021 continues to build momentum.

The Australian newspaper reports that "a consortium of wealthy Australian businessmen - and keen yachties - might already be quietly discussing mounting a joint Australian entry".

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5 hours ago, TimmyHate said:

Timmy I see you've posted this to two threads.  No new info in this squib. It just regurgitates stuff that's been posted in the other thread named "Australian Challenge" which is far more comprehensive.

I know it's like herding cats (no pun intended) but I reckon that feeding the other thread will be more worthwhile.  I've added a note there about RG's latest in sail-world.

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10 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Timmy I see you've posted this to two threads.  No new info in this squib. It just regurgitates stuff that's been posted in the other thread named "Australian Challenge" which is far more comprehensive.

I know it's like herding cats (no pun intended) but I reckon that feeding the other thread will be more worthwhile.  I've added a note there about RG's latest in sail-world.

Yep a good call

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Will Australians be sailing for Australia?

The prospect of Australia rejoining the America’s Cup for Auckland 2021 continues to build momentum. The Australian newspaper reports that “a consortium of wealthy Australian businessmen – and keen yachties – might already be quietly discussing mounting a joint Australian entry.”

What grates the Australians is that so many of the key crew and management of foreign syndicates are now filled with Australians – Glenn Ashby skippered Team New Zealand’s catamaran, Jimmy Spithill, Kyle Langford and Tom Slingbsy were the main men on Oracle and Nathan Outteridge was at the helm of the impressive Swedish entry Artemis Racing.

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2017/09/04/will-australians-sailing-australia/

 

 

 

 

2017-09-04_11-51-22-620x350.jpg

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Australia II’s feat can be repeated in America’s Cup says Tom Slingsby

The long-term goal of the first Australian to be named World Sailor of the Year is to see the America’s Cup fought in the natural amphitheatre of Sydney Harbour.

He would also like to see a Bledisloe Cup style competition battle with New Zealand raced in the lead up to the Cup.

“I just need to find that national pride and spirit we saw in 1983, the type of backing the New Zealander’s give their All-Blacks and their sailing.”

 

“The last America’s Cup was all about power to weight ratio and all our grinders were 98 kilos, but with more traditional sailing we will need lighter and women could be an option with their tactical ability and steering expertise.

“I would like to see a woman sailing. It is an old boys club.”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/swoop/australia-iis-feat-can-be-repeated-in-americas-cup-says-tom-slingsby/news-story/9d5c7b1ae1f17a0dd3083f43fae4a0c0

 

The Bledisloe Cup for those not from round here, held up by Sir Richie!

 

 

 

 

bledisloe-cup-1200.jpg

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2 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Australia II’s feat can be repeated in America’s Cup says Tom Slingsby

The long-term goal of the first Australian to be named World Sailor of the Year is to see the America’s Cup fought in the natural amphitheatre of Sydney Harbour.

He would also like to see a Bledisloe Cup style competition battle with New Zealand raced in the lead up to the Cup.

“I just need to find that national pride and spirit we saw in 1983, the type of backing the New Zealander’s give their All-Blacks and their sailing.”

 

“The last America’s Cup was all about power to weight ratio and all our grinders were 98 kilos, but with more traditional sailing we will need lighter and women could be an option with their tactical ability and steering expertise.

“I would like to see a woman sailing. It is an old boys club.”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/swoop/australia-iis-feat-can-be-repeated-in-americas-cup-says-tom-slingsby/news-story/9d5c7b1ae1f17a0dd3083f43fae4a0c0

 

The Bledisloe Cup for those not from round here, held up by Sir Richie!

 

 

 

 

bledisloe-cup-1200.jpg

Or as he is known locally - God

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"He would also like to see a Bledisloe Cup style competition battle with New Zealand raced in the lead up to the Cup."

Racing between a challenger and the defender prior to the Cup then. It seems uncharacteristically quiet on the ANZAC front as far as condemnation of that particular proposal is concerned.

 

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“It’s about one big fish coming in then everyone will follow. Someone believe in what we could do and getting behind us and getting a whole country."

Let's see, how many times have I heard this from start up entrepreneurs who end up never finding that big fish? Unfortunately, I'd say that if he doesn't have the big fish on the line already, he's not likely to get one in time to secure the design talent. I suppose his interview also means that OTAUS is not going to happen since, clearly, Larry is the very definition of a big fish.  

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12 hours ago, dogwatch said:

"He would also like to see a Bledisloe Cup style competition battle with New Zealand raced in the lead up to the Cup."

Racing between a challenger and the defender prior to the Cup then. It seems uncharacteristically quiet on the ANZAC front as far as condemnation of that particular proposal is concerned.

 

Will never happen. The All Blacks don't help the Wallabies. Why should ETNZ help them? It's just wistful thinking by him for gainful employment...

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^^^ Fuck off, Aussie. We'll meet you in the Cup - if you're good enough.

 

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12 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

^^^ Fuck off, Aussie. We'll meet you in the Cup - if you're good enough.

 

Lol! A gentle way with words as always SBD :D

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