Jim M

What Does Gun Violence Really Cost?

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6 minutes ago, badlatitude said:
7 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

The gene pool is in desperate need of some chlorine.

Probably just need to get rid of their guns.

Why?  The gun in this case WAS the chlorine.....

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Just now, badlatitude said:
5 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Why?  The gun in this case WAS the chlorine.....

Not to their families and friends.

So if these two idiots were racing down the street in Porsche GT-2s at 180mph and one or both wrapped himself around a tree and morted out..... would that be any less darwinism?  

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4 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So if these two idiots were racing down the street in Porsche GT-2s at 180mph and one or both wrapped himself around a tree and morted out..... would that be any less darwinism?  

Were they shooting at each other?

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2 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Were they shooting at each other?

Uh, yes they were:

Quote

Witnesses told police it was "a habit" of the friends to unload the firearm and dry fire it at each other, Fulton said. Dry firing a gun involves removing the ammunition before pulling the trigger.

 

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3 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

While driving at 180mph?

I thought you were talking about the two idiots in MI who shot at each other???  Are you not?

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6 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I thought you were talking about the two idiots in MI who shot at each other???  Are you not?

I'm talking about the subject of the OP - Gun Violence and the cost.

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1 minute ago, badlatitude said:

I'm talking about the subject of the OP - Gun Violence and the cost.

So am I.  Your article you linked talked about "gun violence" which was more correctly called "gun stupidity" and the cost was an excellent use of toolz to effect some much needed darwinism.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So am I.  Your article you linked talked about "gun violence" which was more correctly called "gun stupidity" and the cost was an excellent use of toolz to effect some much needed darwinism.  

 

I'm talking about the original Mother Jones article.

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12 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

I'm talking about the original Mother Jones article.

But the incident you posted wasn't a suicide so doesn't represent the majority of gun violence.

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Just now, dogballs Tom said:

But the incident you posted wasn't a suicide so doesn't represent the majority of gun violence.

You need to become familiar with the subject then, here is more violence.

Newsweek: 

FIVE-YEAR-OLD ARKANSAS BOY SHOOTS HIMSELF DEAD WHILE PLAYING WITH GUN 
BY JAMES HETHERINGTON ON 9/24/18 AT 10:58 AM 

A young Arkansas boy accidentally shot and killed himself while playing with a gun. 

Brennan Esau, a 5-year-old from Little Rock, was reportedly playing with the weapon on Saturday night while at home. His mother was not present at the time. According to Little Rock Police Lieutenant Michael Ford, Brennan was alone in the room when he found the gun. Ford said a report was being prepared for the prosecutor’s office to determine if charges would be filed, according to the Associated Press. 

Brennan had three older siblings aged 6, 10 and 14. He attended Wakefield Elementary School and loved basketball. Speaking to ABC 7, neighbors Solomon and Soufyon Khaliq said Brennan always made people feel welcome. 

https://www.newsweek.com/five-year-old-arkansas-boy-shoots-himself-while-playing-gun-1135838

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19 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Whoops, your pants are down, on the big victory lap. Why is Heller cited so much, in nearly every case, as your extremist position goes down the tubes? 

I realize it is difficult for you to stay on topic Joe, but we are talking about Palmer (one of _your_ listed big wins). _Still_ waiting for your big posting cutting from case documents showing that it was a big win for DC. Feel free to play your 3rd grade "show me his permit" game if you have no answers from the important case docs.

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Mid seems to have gotten lost on the way to the self-murder thread.

56 minutes ago, Mid said:


Emma says she's scared of gun owners

Quote

And if you follow the link,

Quote

 

Every day, 96 people die from gun violence: 

  • 34 are murdered
  • 59 die from suicide
  • 1 killed unintentionally
  • 1 killed by legal intervention
  • 1 died but was intent unknown

 

So, as usual, the victims of gun violence are mostly people who got shot and killed by themselves.

Except normal people don't say, "I just heard that Joe got shot and killed by himself." Grabberz phrase it that way to mislead.

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Now you are the same vulture personality, but you circle over grieving families. Good job.

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47 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Now you are the same vulture personality, but you circle over grieving families. Good job.

So we should ban guns.. because of "grieving families"? Why doesn't this attitude apply to everything?

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Tom is working the suicide cadavers, for the benefit of Citizen's United et al. Nice. 

Just sayin'...

Quote

In 2011, Institute for Justice Executive Director Lee McGrath introduced the "Asset Forfeiture Process and Private Property Protection Act" to the Public Safety and Elections Task Force meeting at the 2011 Annual Meeting of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) in New Orleans.[9]

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Justice

Vultures gather around such carnage, all the time.

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3 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Tom is working the cadavers, for the benefit of Citizen's United et al. Nice. 

Just sayin'...

 

Can you actually point to a bill enacted into law?

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6 minutes ago, bpm57 said:

Can you actually point to a bill enacted into law?

How about four which rejected such a law? They stopped short of your sweeping claim.

Assuming arguendo that the Second Amendment’s individual right to keep and bear arms extends beyond the home,2 see

  • --Drake v. Filko, 724 F.3d 426, 431 (3d Cir. 2013) (declining “to definitively declare that the individual right to bear arms for the purpose of self-defense extends beyond the home”);
  • --Peruta v. Cty. of San Diego, 824 F.3d 919, 927 (9th Cir. 2016) (en banc) (same);
  • --Woollard v. Gallagher, 712 F.3d 865, 876 (4th Cir. 2013) (same);
  • --Kachalsky v. Cty. of Westchester, 701 F.3d 81, 89 (2d Cir. 2012) (same),
    Quote

    Moreover, petitioners’ suggestion that the challenged legal regimes “cannot possibly withstand constitutional scrutiny” if the Second Amendment applies outside the home (Pet. 15) misunderstands this Court’s precedents. The Court has made clear that even where the Amendment applies, it does not confer a right to “carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” Heller, 554 U.S. at 626. 

     

    A conclusion or assumption that the Second Amendment applies outside the home begins, rather than ends, the inquiry into the constitutionality of a particular regulatory framework.

                                                                                                   P 19 Ninth District's Peruta Decision

     

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8 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

How about four which rejected such a law? They stopped short of your sweeping claim. 

Please get some help, Joe. Do you find it impossible to follow replies in a thread for longer then 5 minutes?

You wrote:

I responded:

 

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2 hours ago, bpm57 said:

Please get some help, Joe. Do you find it impossible to follow replies in a thread for longer then 5 minutes?

You wrote:

I responded:

 

You have it backwards. You need to support outdoor guns with case law based on a right to outdoor guns. Peruta maintains there is no such right. 

Quote

Peruta, p3 Section 1

-- In Williams v. State, the court held that restrictions on “wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in public” do not implicate the Second Amendment because “the Second Amendment is applicable to statutory prohibitions against home possession.” 10 A.3d 1167, 1177 (Md. 2011).

--The court then labeled Heller’s broader explications of the right “dicta,” declaring that f the Supreme Court … meant its holding to extend beyond home possession, it will need to say so more plainly.”

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/16-894Brief-California-BIO.pdf

 

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10 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

You have it backwards. You need to support outdoor guns with case law based on a right to outdoor guns. Peruta maintains there is no such right. 

I do? So when responding to a message where you said this:

3 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Tom is working the suicide cadavers, for the benefit of Citizen's United et al. Nice. 

Just sayin'...

Quote

In 2011, Institute for Justice Executive Director Lee McGrath introduced the "Asset Forfeiture Process and Private Property Protection Act" to the Public Safety and Elections Task Force meeting at the 2011 Annual Meeting of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) in New Orleans.[9]

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Justice

Vultures gather around such carnage, all the time.

I'm supposed to read into that and assume you are talking about guns?

Will you tell us the legislation that turned the model legislation into law?

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I can tell you the current legislation that refused the right to outdoor guns.

Quote

 Nonetheless, three state courts of last resort have reached the opposite conclusion. Pet.16. Respondents dismiss those cases as lacking in “extended discussion or analysis of the scope of the Second Amendment.” StateBIO10-11. That may explain how those courts reached a conclusion plainly at odds with the text of the Second Amendment and Heller and McDonald, but it does not change the reality that each case rejected a Second Amendment challenge on the ground that carrying a firearm outside the home is not protected. 4

 

  • --In Commonwealth v. Gouse, the court held that the case “does not implicate” the Second Amendment because “the defendant was charged with and convicted of possessing a firearm in an automobile, not his home.” 965 N.E.2d 774, 801-02 (Mass. 2012).
  • -- In Williams v. State, the court held that restrictions on “wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in public” do not implicate the Second Amendment because “the Second Amendment is applicable to statutory prohibitions against home possession.” 10 A.3d 1167, 1177 (Md. 2011).

--The court then labeled Heller’s broader explications of the right “dicta,” declaring that “If the Supreme Court … meant its holding to extend beyond home possession, it will need to say so more plainly.” Id.

-- Finally, Mack v. United States concluded that neither Heller nor McDonald “endorse[d] a right to carry weapons outside the home.” 6 A.3d 1224, 1236 (D.C. 2010). Peruta, p 3 of 89 http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2016/06/09/10-56971 6-9 EB opinion plus webcites.pdf

Again, this is the hurdle that Peruta could not get over. And Patrick J. Charles and others predicted this, for reasons based on common law.

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2 hours ago, jocal505 said:

I can tell you the current legislation that refused the right to outdoor guns.

So you don't know what legislation is, and you still refuse to answer the questions about your post.

But you do realize that Peruta didn't eliminate CCW in California, right?

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5 hours ago, bpm57 said:

But you do realize that Peruta didn't eliminate CCW in California, right?

Go ahead and extend this thought for us. Develop it with your words.

But at present,  Shall issue has not prevailed over may issue in the case of citizen Scott Peruta. He has no basic right to go full SDU with his gun in CA, unless he wants to employ in  his home.

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13 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Tom Emma is working the suicide cadavers, for the benefit of Citizen's United Bloomberg et al. grabberz. Nice. 

Fixed. I didn't cause her to try to mislead people and use suicides to call for unrelated gun bans. She's a grabber and they do that all on their own. Which explains the thousands of replies in this thread.

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18 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Tom is working the suicide cadavers, for the benefit of Citizen's United et al. Nice. 

Just sayin'...

:(

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14 hours ago, bpm57 said:

So you don't know what legislation is, and you still refuse to answer the questions about your post.

But you do realize that Peruta didn't eliminate CCW in California, right?

Listen up. The courts themselves use the terms Peruta I and Peruta II to delineate the nuances of outdoor gun decisions. This is from Tom's link to the Hawaii re-regurgitation of Scott Peruta's issues. See p 20 and elsewhere.

Quote

Compare Peruta I, 742 F.3d at 1150-66, with Add. 14-32; see Add. 60 (Clifton, J., dissenting) (noting that these decisions are “very similar”). That decision was vacated by a commanding majority of the Court two years ago. It should be vacated again now.

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2016/06/09/10-56971 6-9 EB opinion plus webcites.pdf

 

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On 10/7/2018 at 2:17 PM, jocal505 said:

Tom is working the suicide cadavers, for the benefit of Citizen's United et al. Nice. 

Just sayin'...

Quote

In 2011, Institute for Justice Executive Director Lee McGrath introduced the "Asset Forfeiture Process and Private Property Protection Act" to the Public Safety and Elections Task Force meeting at the 2011 Annual Meeting of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) in New Orleans.[9]

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Justice

Vultures gather around such carnage, all the time.

So groups go and write model legislation. So what?

Can you point out the things you find wrong with the model legislation?

Can you point to any legislation that actually made it law?

Remember Joe, you play it straight.

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On 10/8/2018 at 10:13 AM, jocal505 said:

Listen up.

Uh oh, Joe is going alpha again.

On 10/8/2018 at 10:13 AM, jocal505 said:

The courts themselves use the terms Peruta I and Peruta II to delineate the nuances of outdoor gun decisions.

What you like to call "Peruta I" (now) was vacated, Joe. Do you need to review what "vacated" means again?

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9 hours ago, jocal505 said:

The CDC made a new report. The shooting numbers are going back up. Gun suicide increased 2% per year, for an entire decade.

Quote

Gun-related deaths are on the rise in the U.S., bucking a decade-long decline, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. During 2015-2016, the federal agency says there were 27,394 homicides involving firearms and another 44,955 gun suicides — the highest levels recorded since 2006-2007.

(...) . From 2006 to 2016, suicides by firearm increased 21 percent, after declining 7 percent from 1999 to 2006.

(...) Violent crime rose 6.1 percent in cities with populations of 250,000 or more in 2016, while the increase was only 2.2 percent in suburban areas and 1.6 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.

https://wdef.com/2018/11/09/gun-deaths-on-the-rise-after-years-of-decline-cdc-reports/

 

So did the CDC do a report without doing any research or were you lying about research being banned?

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25 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:
9 hours ago, jocal505 said:

 

So did the CDC do a report without doing any research or were you lying about research being banned?

We'll know this is okay when the CDC says it i okays, not when Florida rednecks give it a pass. Only the ignorant and careless would tell half-truths about this. Major areas of inquiry are unexplored, though they are laid out by the Internal Order of Medicine.

There is a pre=organized list of work to be done. Conservatives are blocking the funding of this life-and-death matter. 

PRIORITIES FOR RESEARCH is the CDC blueprint. Itfeatures all the SDU strengths provided by Gary Kleck, but THIS WORK HAS NOT EVEN BEGUN.

 

A house of cards will collapse as federal funding for gun research is made available.

 

Good morning, Tom. Let's explore violence. Violence leaves footprints, calling cards, in the brain. Yoga does, too. Even the football crashing research will take us where we need to go here.

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On 10/9/2018 at 9:12 AM, bpm57 said:

Can you point out the things you find wrong with the model legislation?

No. I don't need to read the proposed 2017 AW ban on your terms, since I don't give a damn. Your angst probes my curiosity,  and provides sorry entertainment at this point.

I assume whatever the 2017 AW ban is, it's probably not strong enough.

 

On 10/9/2018 at 9:12 AM, bpm57 said:

So groups go and write model legislation. So what?

After Sandy Hook, with the nation in shock over AW gunplay against first graders, all the current hotshots of every discipline were gathered for this one. It was a big deal, and the gun violence prevention community and the NRA  knew it.

What is indicative is that these social scientists set out to map strictly CAUSAL explorations: your worst nightmare.  This work is about 128 pages, and I organized each page.

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5 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

So did the CDC do a report without doing any research or were you lying about research being banned?

You are bright. And you know you are, thus the TR loftiness. Strenghts you got.

You are the Kelo Whiz around here. Now sort the CDC's situation for us, without playing dumb. 

Such shit as this post (and such repeated playing dumb as Japan, Chicago, and the garbling of back gun violence numbers), may begin to follow you to Kelo, etc.  <_<

Tom and Taney (2).JPG

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The devolution of jocal continues.  All in realtime.  And you just can't look away..... its both gruesome and beautiful at the same time.

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12 hours ago, jocal505 said:

No. I don't need to read the proposed 2017 AW ban on your terms, since I don't give a damn. Your angst probes my curiosity,  and provides sorry entertainment at this point.

Joe is confused again about what someone is responding to. It must be a day ending in a Y.

To ease you confusion, Joe, _your_ message was not about guns.

Your message:

I was responding to this, _as I pointed out to you the first time you responded to me a month ago_.

Your message says this:

On 10/7/2018 at 2:17 PM, jocal505 said:

Tom is working the suicide cadavers, for the benefit of Citizen's United et al. Nice. 

Just sayin'...

Quote

In 2011, Institute for Justice Executive Director Lee McGrath introduced the "Asset Forfeiture Process and Private Property Protection Act" to the Public Safety and Elections Task Force meeting at the 2011 Annual Meeting of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) in New Orleans.[9]

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Justice

Vultures gather around such carnage, all the time.

The model legislation  "Asset Forfeiture Process and Private Property Protection Act" is.. not an AW ban.

Now that this is cleared up, Joe, do you want to point out what your issues are with the model legislation?

You can find it here: https://www.alec.org/model-policy/asset-forfeiture-process-and-private-property-protection-act/

You brought this up as a topic - when are you going to make a point other then your "libertarians are bad" chant?

 

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1 minute ago, jocal505 said:

Excuse me. We are  "exploiting suicides"?  No. We want to prevent rash gun suicides, 45,000 opf them a year and increasing 2% per year,

Wow. You're exploiting gun suicides that don't even happen by the thousands every year for your gungrabby purposes?

Amazing.

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24 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Wow. You're exploiting gun suicides that don't even happen by the thousands every year for your gungrabby purposes?

Amazing.

What a sick and infested mind. One side here wants to prevent these suicides, one side is preaching to allow them, every morning.(Pause for a moment here.You are Kelo Tom, a very bright guy.) Which side is doing the exploitation of personal and family tragedy?

Show us some flowers now. Show us dogballs on blankets. Demonize how I learn by reading, in an age of information. Go find your three federalist snippets, and make a grand, pompous, and shallow display of Libertarian history, which you dare not discuss outside female company...

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On 11/10/2018 at 2:41 PM, bpm57 said:

You brought this up as a topic

Not really. I mentioned it. But YOU brought it up as a topic, six times. Tell us what you like about your chosen subject. Take us to some interesting reading which caught your eye. Open up this world, your world, for me. Make my life better, bpm please.

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14 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

exploiting gun suicides that don't even happen by the thousands every year

Is this you when yer stoned? It is TR silly, ghoul-Tom dangerous, Japan-Tom stupid, probably wrong, and pretty hard to follow.

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26 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:
29 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Excuse me. We are  "exploiting suicides"?  No. We want to prevent rash gun suicides, 45,000 opf them a year and increasing 2% per year,

Wow. You're exploiting gun suicides that don't even happen by the thousands every year for your gungrabby purposes?

Amazing.

Bloomberg $peak$

Quote

Claiming the lives of nearly 22,000 Americans every year, including over 950 children and teens,1 firearm suicide is a significant public health crisis in the U.S.

But 45,000 is way more impressive. Also, at least the 23,000 imaginary ones you're exploiting don't have families. Or do they have imaginary families?

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3 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Bloomberg $peak$

But 45,000 is way more impressive. Also, at least the 23,000 imaginary ones you're exploiting don't have families. Or do they have imaginary families?  GHOUL CHOOSES MATH MAJOR

The recent CDC suicide figure, sourced elsewhere, is 45,000, and you are hatin' it. So you apply the Libertarian math, as suggested by Libertarians for homeschooling. 

 

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2 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

CDC suicide figure, sourced elsewhere, is 45,000

https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/index.html

Yes, I know.

And instead of the sensible plastic bag and rope control I suggested earlier in this thread, you're proposing to stop all the suicides that were NOT committed with firearms by grabbing guns?

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1 minute ago, dogballs Tom said:

https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/index.html

Yes, I know.

And instead of the sensible plastic bag and rope control I suggested earlier in this thread, you're proposing to stop all the suicides that were NOT committed with firearms by grabbing guns?

No. You are making shit up, in a silly direction, just fabricating propaganda and sticking my name on it. (Which is why a few the top guys around here won't mix it up with you on other subjects.)

I am proposing to follow the number one priority to reduce gun suicide. I am discouraging guns in our homes...and in our thinking, and in our lives.

I am an illiterate racist, but I give it a go. :unsure:

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16 minutes ago, jocal505 said:
24 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Bloomberg $peak$

But 45,000 is way more impressive. Also, at least the 23,000 imaginary ones you're exploiting don't have families. Or do they have imaginary families?  GHOUL CHOOSES MATH MAJOR

The recent CDC suicide figure, sourced elsewhere, is 45,000, and you are hatin' it. So you apply the Libertarian math, as suggested by Libertarians for homeschooling. 

Yes, you finally got something right.

ALL the libertarian home schooling manuals recommend Bloomberg'$ $peech highly.

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6 hours ago, Sean said:

 

Gun deaths in US reach highest level in nearly 40 years, CDC data reveal

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/12/13/health/gun-deaths-highest-40-years-cdc/

Excerpt -

Nearly 40,000 people in the United States died by guns last year, marking the highest number of gun deaths in decades, according to a new analysis of data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's WONDER database.

Most self-murders do happen in the home, but this seems more relevant in a thread about suicides.

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I find it a bit ironic (ok more than just a bit) that very likely the same folks here who are opposed to other people having the right to end their own lives are probably very much in favor of a pregnant woman being allowed to choose to end another's life.  

And for the record, I strongly support the right to choose in both cases.  

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On 11/16/2018 at 7:41 AM, jocal505 said:

I am proposing to follow the number one priority to reduce gun suicide.

And once again we see your focus is only on ~50% of suicides.

Guess the others are not worth addressing...

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On 12/13/2018 at 8:14 PM, bpm57 said:

And once again we see your focus is only on ~50% of suicides.

Guess the others are not worth addressing...

Use your keed DeadEye factor. Or go ask the doctors why guns are the number one suicide problem in the USA.

There are two reasons, they were explained to you recently.

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On 12/16/2018 at 2:56 PM, jocal505 said:

Use your keed DeadEye factor. Or go ask the doctors why guns are the number one suicide problem in the USA.

There are two reasons, they were explained to you recently.

Joe, this would be like saying you support abortion, or at least ambivalent about it as long as the mother doesn't shoot the fetus.  You can rip it out with a coat hanger, suck it out with a vacuum cleaner after cutting it up into pieces, etc.  But just don't shoot it!

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Joe, this would be like saying you support abortion, or at least ambivalent about it as long as the mother doesn't shoot the fetus.  You can rip it out with a coat hanger, suck it out with a vacuum cleaner after cutting it up into pieces, etc.  But just don't shoot it!

Hmmm. This is Jeff's brain, his DNA, stuck on POS.

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I like to walk around Rome, Italy at night.  It is fun, common and safe.  Unfortunately, it it not safe in Atlanta.  The reason is the proliferation of guns.  I kept guns in my homes when my children were there.  As a person involved in law enforcement, I felt it necessary.  It is not necessary now so I don't.  I detest all of the murder I have had to investigate.  I testified yesterday in a motion for new trial in which the victim was killed by the man who broke into his car.  The victim was killed by his own handgun. 

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12 hours ago, Olsonist said:

MORE CHILDREN WERE SHOT DEAD IN 2017 THAN ON-DUTY POLICE OFFICERS AND ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY, STUDY SAYS

https://www.newsweek.com/kids-and-guns-alarming-rise-firearm-deaths-among-american-children-1370866

 

Those Well Regulated Militias sure are Necessary for a Free State.

Quote

Some 6,464 deaths involved children between 5 to 14 years of age, amounting to 340 deaths annually on average. A further 32,478 children between 15 to 18 years old died, or 2,050 per year on average between 1999 and 2017.

Of these children, 61 percent were killed in an assault involving a firearm, while 32 percent died by suicide. A further 5 percent died in an accident. The death was undetermined in 2 percent of cases.

Usually, when grabbers use suicide statistics to justify gun bans, 2/3 of the people they are talking about committed suicide.

In the case of kids, it's 1/3.

What does this tell us about the need to ban and confiscate scary guns?

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12 hours ago, Fakenews said:

Another victim claimed by Parland AW wielding killer. 2nd this week.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/second-parkland-student-in-a-week-has-committed-suicide-say-police/


Well, no, self-murders are, as the name implies, committed upon oneself.

The gun doesn't do it. Someone in prison doesn't do it.

The person committing suicide does it.

And they do it at a much higher rate in places like Japan, with an almost zero gun ownership rate.

So quit with the "suicides mean we must DO SOMETHING" bullshit.

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Mass killers armed with ASSault weapons continue to kill even after they are killed or incarcerated.  As may victims were claimed by the Columbine killers after their death than before it.  

They are a truly malicious public health hazard  whose cost is unbearable. Tom Dogballs effort to deflect by steering the convo from the ASSault weapons thread is.....

SAD!

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On 3/24/2019 at 5:15 PM, Fakenews said:

Another victim claimed by Parland AW wielding killer. 2nd this week.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/second-parkland-student-in-a-week-has-committed-suicide-say-police/

 

12 hours ago, Fakenews said:

Killer armed with assault weapon, aka agent of death, kills another today this time it’s a Sandy Hook victim.  That is three in a week.

 

https://jezebel.com/father-of-sandy-hook-victim-died-by-apparent-suicide-at-1833544405


Most of our "gun violence" takes the form of suicide. Over 50 people a day.

But only two of those are politically convenient and get brought up to support banning ordinary squirrel shooters.

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11 hours ago, Mid said:

Sol referenced this earlier and Tom quickly dissed it ....................

More than a year after the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, two young people have killed themselves.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amberjamieson/parkland-suicides-marjory-stoneman-douglas

 

just what is it going to take America ?

 

Most of our "gun violence" takes the form of suicide. Over 50 people a day.

But only two of those are politically convenient and get a new thread and get mentioned in various other threads.

I wonder what it's going to take to get people who find those suicides peculiarly convenient to talk about the political SOLution proposed by our representatives: banning and confiscating my squirrel gun.

On 1/12/2017 at 6:36 AM, Importunate Tom said:

Florida Gun Ban Proposed

 

 

Quote

After two mass shootings in the state, some Florida lawmakers want an all-out ban on assault rifles.

Why the interest in the victims and no discussion of the SOLution and how it will prevent suicides? You know, like it does in Japan.

  • Downvote 1

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How S Korea Got Rid Of Its Gun Problem
 

Quote

 

It’s true that South Korea is a good place to visit these days if you’re trying to avoid guns. According to the Korean National Police Agency (KNPA), there were just five gun homicides in 2016, while the latest available figure for gun homicides per 100,000 people was 0.00 (statistically negligible), as compared to 3.7 in the United States.

Strict gun regulations and state-led gun confiscations in the 1970s soon led to a decrease in civilian gun violence, and by the 1990s the discourse on guns in South Korean media had shifted to ways to reform the trigger-happy police force.

Gun ownership in South Korea is regulated by the Act on the Safety Management of Guns, Swords, Explosives, etc, which requires that all private guns be stored at local police stations and that all owners receive and regularly renew gun permits.

...

In 2007, the number of registered private guns in South Korea was approximately 265,000. In 2016, the number was 138,751. The number of private guns in South Korea has decreased annually since 2007 at rates of 3 to 11 percent.

 

And yet, they still kill themselves at nearly twice the rate we do here in the USA, much higher even than Japan's rate.

It's almost as if grabbing all the guns doesn't really work to prevent suicides or something.

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ASSault weapons while fantastic for killing mass quantities of Americans (after all that’s thier intended purpose) sometimes years after the trigger is pulled are not favored in Suicide.  I presume because they are messy and thus out of respect for family members and pets left behind other methods are preferable.

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3 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

How S Korea Got Rid Of Its Gun Problem
 

And yet, they still kill themselves at nearly twice the rate we do here in the USA, much higher even than Japan's rate.

It's almost as if grabbing all the guns doesn't really work to prevent suicides or something.

People are welcome to kill themselves, it's their life after all its killing others that I have a problem with. 

For prevention of suicides a national health care system with emphasis on mental health will help, it will also help prevent some of the deranged attacks.

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

The Sunshine State has 12.6 gun suicides per 100,000. The Golden State only has 4. Florida is God's waiting room, sure, I get that. But what's the hurry?

Maybe you don't get it.

The demographics of gun violence tell us that most of it is committed by older white men against themselves.

Why?

Growing old isn't for wimps.

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On 12/18/2018 at 7:01 PM, hasher said:

I testified yesterday in a motion for new trial in which the victim was killed by the man who broke into his car.  The victim was killed by his own handgun the murdering criminal who broke into his car. 

FIFY

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On 12/18/2018 at 5:01 PM, jocal505 said:
On 12/18/2018 at 3:42 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

Joe, this would be like saying you support abortion, or at least ambivalent about it as long as the mother doesn't shoot the fetus.  You can rip it out with a coat hanger, suck it out with a vacuum cleaner after cutting it up into pieces, etc.  But just don't shoot it!

Hmmm. This is Jeff's brain, his DNA, stuck on POS.

But I'm not wrong, am I?  You don't give two fucks about people who commit self-murder as long as they don't do it with a gun.  

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7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

FIFY

He would be alive if the gun wasn't riding with him.  Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.  This is not the wild west.  And you are not the fastest draw.  Go shoot rabbits but keep the fu guns off of the streets.

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8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

But I'm not wrong, am I?  You don't give two fucks about people who commit self-murder as long as they don't do it with a gun.  

You are wrong, quite wrong,  but we're used to it.

Guns are exposed two ways here. Because they facilitate suicide from our homes, and because then they enable statistically effective suicide efforts.

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3 hours ago, jocal505 said:

You are wrong, quite wrong,  but we're used to it.

I can't find your posts where you discuss murder or suicides that were not committed with firearms.

Kinda like they don't matter.

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19 hours ago, Fakenews said:

reasonable people cite a rapidly aging population as the principal reason for the decline in all types of criminal violence.

 

10 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Has the number of shootings increased or decreased?


Bull Gator is right that age has a lot to do with violence. Young men are violent creatures.

But most gun violence takes the form of self-murder, so it's more appropriate to answer CLEAN's question (not that he reads answers) in this thread.

Because of population growth, I would guess that the absolute number of shootings has increased since a growing population with the same rate of suicide will show increasing numbers.

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56 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:

 


Bull Gator is right that age has a lot to do with violence. Young men are violent creatures.

But most gun violence takes the form of self-murder, so it's more appropriate to answer CLEAN's question (not that he reads answers) in this thread.

Because of population growth, I would guess that the absolute number of shootings has increased since a growing population with the same rate of suicide will show increasing numbers.

Suicide is certainly part of the problem. But myopic propaganda zoning into suicide paints an incomplete (and deceptive) picture. The increased gun violence reflects all across society.

Quote

GVA totals 2017, compared over four years.

  • Road Rage Up 250% in three years
  • Number of Injuries Up 29% over four years
  • Total gun incidents Up 18% over four years
  • Gun deaths (excluding 22,000 suicides/yr average) Up 23% in four years
  • Defensive Gun Uses Up 27% in four years
  • Officer involved, Suspect/shooter killed up 17% over four years
  • Accidental Shootings  Up 25% over four years
  • Number of Home Invasions Down 5% over four years
  • Number of Children (age 0-11) Injured  Up 19% over four years
  • Teens killed or injured (ages 12-17, not incl suicides) Up 38% over four years
  • Mass Shootings Up 26% over four years

 

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12 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Suicide is certainly part of the problem. But myopic propaganda zoning into suicide paints an incomplete (and deceptive) picture.

So you couldn't get traction on your suicide discussion, so it is time to go back to your 2+ year old cut-n-paste stats?

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12 hours ago, bpm57 said:

So you couldn't get traction on your suicide discussion, so it is time to go back to your 2+ year old cut-n-paste stats?

Geez, you and I already got into it over this.

FACT> The homicide rate had settled at 11,500 for eight or nine years...but spiked after 2015.

Quote

Gun-related deaths are on the rise in the U.S., bucking a decade-long decline, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. During 2015-2016, the federal agency says there were 27,394 homicides involving firearms and another 44,955 gun suicides — the highest levels recorded since 2006-2007.

In 2015-2016, the latest year available, homicide was the 16th leading cause of death among U.S. adults and the third leading cause for children between the ages of 10 and 19, according to the report. Guns were used in 74 percent of all recorded homicides, and used in 87 percent of homicides involving youth.

(...) The report noted that the rates of firearm homicides varied drastically from city to city. The rate was the lowest in the Providence and Warwick, Rhode Island, area, which recorded a rate of 1.1 for every 100,000 people, and the highest in the New Orleans and Metairie, Louisiana, area, with a rate of 16.6 for every 100,000 people.

(...)  From 2006 to 2016, suicides by firearm increased 21 percent, after declining 7 percent from 1999 to 2006.

https://wdef.com/2018/11/09/gun-deaths-on-the-rise-after-years-of-decline-cdc-reports/

@Importunate Tom  At this point, you are wrong that violent crime is going down. Same source. THe violence comes from heavily populated areas.

Quote

Violent crime in the U.S. increased 3.8 percent in 2016, with data suggesting a “short-term increase concentrated particularly in the core cities of metropolitan areas,” the report said, citing FBI statistics. Violent crime rose 6.1 percent in cities with populations of 250,000 or more in 2016, while the increase was only 2.2 percent in suburban areas and 1.6 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.

 

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21 hours ago, Raz'r said:

So, you are still math challenged then? Real danger from tools in the house

But the Japanese are in far greater danger of killing themselves and almost none of them have guns.

18 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Among first world countries we're number one in per capita gun deaths by a wide margin, a factor of 4 over Finland. We are 1st in the world for guns per capita. We're 2nd in gun suicides after Greenland.

And we have a pretty normal suicide rate, as noted way upthread. The method used matters to grabbers because they want to pad statistics. Same reason the 10k who kill themselves each year by some other method are ignored.

 

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11 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Geez, you and I already got into it over this.

What, your inability to understand that numbers will go up or down?

11 hours ago, jocal505 said:

FACT> The homicide rate had settled at 11,500 for eight or nine years...but spiked after 2015.

Motor vehicle deaths have spiked the last few years, after being pretty flat for several years. Must be time to ban those, too.

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On 4/13/2019 at 10:32 AM, jocal505 said:

Guns are exposed two ways here. Because they facilitate suicide from our homes, and because then they enable statistically effective suicide efforts.

Speaking of facilitating statistically effective suicide,

New Jersey the Latest State to Allow Terminally Ill to Seek Aid in Dying
 

Quote

 

Today New Jersey joins California, Vermont, Oregon, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Montana, Washington state, and Washington, D.C., in allowing residents with terminal illnesses to seek assistance from doctors in order to end their own lives on their own terms.

In March, lawmakers passed the Medical Aid in Dying for the Terminally Ill Act, and Democratic Gov. Phil Murphy signed it into law in April. It officially goes into effect today.

The law permits people who are diagnosed with less than six months to live to request medication from doctors to commit suicide. This isn't like picking up a prescription for antibiotics; there are a number of requirements to meet before a patient will actually receive the drugs. The patient needs request the medication twice (at least 15 days apart), once in writing, and have witnesses sign off on it (including one who is not a relative or entitled to any part of the patient's estate). The patient must be an adult, a resident of New Jersey, and a person determined capable of making such a decision. The patients must be able to administer the medication to themselves.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Repastinate Tom said:

Speaking of facilitating statistically effective suicide,

New Jersey the Latest State to Allow Terminally Ill to Seek Aid in Dying
 

 

I had two suicides by people close to my life.  One man was about to lose his second foot to diabetes.  He arranged it carefully.

The other young man whose brother I coached in soccer lost his first girlfriend.  I'd give anything to prevent that senseless death.

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20 hours ago, hasher said:

I had two suicides by people close to my life.  One man was about to lose his second foot to diabetes.  He arranged it carefully.

The other young man whose brother I coached in soccer lost his first girlfriend.  I'd give anything to prevent that senseless death.

Very sorry. Of course.

Did your young friend go to the pills? Or to hanging? If he had, the odds fall around 90% that it would all sort out, about the gf.

If the young man turned to a gun, the odds are 90% it would not sort out.

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6 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

2010_homicide_suicide_rates_high-income_countries.thumb.png.dbdb3c4bd8e7059304a10c5b3e98cfaa.png

 

With an average of 120 guns per 100 people in the USA,  yep I think I can see the problem here.

Graph courtesy of RCraig09 on Wikipedia.


I'm guessing the problem you see is the method people choose, not the suicides themselves? Because the USA has a pretty average suicide rate.

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6 minutes ago, Repastinate Tom said:


I'm guessing the problem you see is the method people choose, not the suicides themselves? Because the USA has a pretty average suicide rate.

You are a sick one. And you CHOOSE and peddle the illness, with smarminess, importunacy, comtumaity, and repastination.

But I digress. Obviously, if all these gunz were not in our homes, our averagesuicide rate could rest in peace, well below average.

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On 4/16/2015 at 9:52 AM, Repastinate Tom said:

Suicide-deaths-per-100000-trend.jpg

 

Must be the guns.

9 hours ago, Flatbag said:

When I think of the tragedy of 9/11 I still am amazed that so few actually died in that horrible atrocity; somewhere around 3000 souls. And yes, the death of 3000 souls in one event is appallingly tragic but then I reflect on the fact that just about the same number of Americans are killed in gun related deaths EVERY MONTH and that has been going on for decades with little or no moral outrage. 


And America's suicide rate continues to be unremarkable compared to other countries with much stricter gun control.

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On 8/8/2019 at 3:23 PM, jocal505 said:

But I digress. Obviously, if all these gunz were not in our homes, our averagesuicide rate could rest in peace, well below average.

But that makes zero sense.  Since other countries with average to above average suicide rates have very few gunz..... why would you think we would magically be WELL BELOW average if we had the same gun ownership rates as these other countries???  

Obviously all these guns are not in the homes in these other countries, yet they still seem to find a way to self-murder themselves.  Please explain why that is.

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52 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

 But that makes zero sense.  Since other countries with average to above average suicide rates have very few gunz..... why would you think we would magically be WELL BELOW average if we had the same gun ownership rates as these other countries???  

Obviously all these guns are not in the homes in these other countries, yet they still seem to find a way to self-murder themselves.  Please explain why that is.

You don't get to make up the facts. 

It makes all kinds of sense. So much sense that the science supports me.  This is the number one basic conclusion, of the body of work, of suicide study. Read SAILING ANAQRCHY.

If we has a culture with fewer guns in homes, the suicide rate would go down. WAY down.

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15 hours ago, jocal505 said:

You don't get to make up the facts. 

It makes all kinds of sense. So much sense that the science supports me.  This is the number one basic conclusion, of the body of work, of suicide study. Read SAILING ANAQRCHY.

If we has a culture with fewer guns in homes, the suicide rate would go down. WAY down.

Then explain to me why all those other countries with much much lower numbers of guns in homes have the same rates of suicides as the US?

BTW Joe, are you PUI?  NTTAWWT.

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