Mike Hunt

J/100 tuning #'s

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Here are some unofficial suggestions from two sources, though I don't remember how I got them. A place to start if nothing else. FWIW

 

Not a rocket sled, but the J/100 is a very enjoyable sailing boat IMO.

MidPack,

Thanks for the info.......very good info indeed.

So, by chance, do you have any polar info as well?

 

I just picked up a little J/100 recently and plan on racing her every week...primarily W/L racing. Thus far, the boat is not too happy racing W/L with the A-sail tacked off the bow. She seems to slide quite well trough the water uphill (especially in the light stuff) but struggles down wind. The poor little kite is buried behind the mainsail unless you heat her up to 90-105 apparent.......

 

If you or anyone has a polar diagram that would be great, or any helpful hints would be greatly appreciated.

 

Regrettably, my local PHRF committee thinks the boat is faster than she really is. They banged me with a 78 sec per mile....using the genoa and 80 sq kite. So far, this rating has proven to be tough to sail too.....we are getting murdered downwind. I have thought about adding a sprit or standard pole; however, I am concerned that it will drop my rating even lower. I am in the process of trying to get rating info out of my local PHRF group, but regrettably they will not respond. I am curious as to how large of an A-sail I can carry.......as my crew is less than thrilled about the thought of going back to standard kites.

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

 

Very truly

WAFI

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Google search http://www.jowners.org/docs/J100%20Polar%20Chart.pdf

 

The table below is based on VPP with 150% genoa. IME in general with VPP polars, they tend to be overly optimistic in light air, and maybe conservative in heavy air. They're just calculated/theoretical targets anyway, nothing magic about polars, just a place to start IMO (as are rig tuning specs). Even well developed target speeds (better than polars) are subject to variation due to sea state, trim/sail condition, crew weight, etc.

 

78 seems harsh for OD config, 90-93 was more typical when I was involved with a J/100.

 

You probably know, like all asym boats, you have to actively steer the boat especially downwind ('heat & burn' repeatedly). It's not fast to lock in on a downwind TWA/AWA - I see racers do this far too often, and they wonder why they can't get anywhere near even polar boat speeds.

 

The J/100 is a great boat IMO, but it wasn't optimized for racing. With given regular competing boats, in PHRF you will have days you can do well, and other days where no matter how well you sail you won't be able to win - like almost every boat. All rating systems, certainly PHRF, are a compromise.

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Google search http://www.jowners.org/docs/J100%20Polar%20Chart.pdf

 

The table below is based on VPP with 150% genoa. IME in general with VPP polars, they tend to be overly optimistic in light air, and maybe conservative in heavy air. They're just calculated/theoretical targets anyway, nothing magic about polars, just a place to start IMO (as are rig tuning specs). Even well developed target speeds (better than polars) are subject to variation due to sea state, trim/sail condition, crew weight, etc.

 

78 seems harsh for OD config, 90-93 was more typical when I was involved with a J/100.

 

You probably know, like all asym boats, you have to actively steer the boat especially downwind ('heat & burn' repeatedly). It's not fast to lock in on a downwind TWA/AWA - I see racers do this far too often, and they wonder why they can't get anywhere near even polar boat speeds.

 

The J/100 is a great boat IMO, but it wasn't optimized for racing. With given regular competing boats, in PHRF you will have days you can do well, and other days where no matter how well you sail you won't be able to win - like almost every boat. All rating systems, certainly PHRF, are a compromise.

MidPack,

Thanks for the quick response........

 

So we sail on Lake Erie, she is know for medium to light air w/ tight nasty chop. Thus far, I have been able to get the boat uphill quite well; however; down hit we are getting smoked by the fleet.

 

Coming from another sprit boat, I know the "heat & Burn" technique. With the little (80sqm) kite tacked off the bow, unless it's nuking out there, getting any kind of decent rotation w/ speed is tough. The boat really appears to like broad reaching, but anything south of 140 APW to boat suffers. This past weekend we had breeze in the upper teens and the boat went very well, only problem there were all the standard sym boats were squaring back and heading right for the leeward gate.

 

Anyway, I truly appreciate your help here. The rig tune and polar diagram was helpful.........now I just need to get my local PHRF group to give me a little love.

 

Very truly

WAFI

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I see PHRF-LO has one at 77. Which PHRF region are you in wafi? What info are you looking for that they won't give you?

Grob-Borg:

I sail on Lake Erie, so we are PHRF-LE

 

So the J/100 while a sweet little design and a wonderful sailing boat, is somewhat of a bastard child in the world of PHRF......outside OD racing. There are no less than 5 sail plan configurations......all with varying ratings across the country.

 

I figure with the Northeast having the largest concentration of them, they would be the bench mark for having an established rating for each of the various sail plans. Turns out my local PHRF group does not agree.

 

My boat came with the standard blade and a 150% genoa, and the 80sqm kite that gets tacked off the bow. As far as I can tell, I am getting nailed at least 9 (maybe more) seconds per mile hit for carrying the larger head sail. I would opt not to use it as the boat does not suffer nearly as much uphill as she does down.

 

As far as i can tell, I have been rated as if I am either flying a standard kite or a sprit version.......both of which would be better than tacking off the bow.

 

I have several emails into my local group with no response...which is okay. Hopefully they are doing their homework and will come back to me with a reasonable rating.

 

Thanks

WAFI

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I have one with a sprit, 145 genoa and 100 sq meter kite - says 9 seconds for sprit in w/l

and 15 seconds distance... we are rated at 81 w/l 75 distance crew weight max 1050 (DH)

...we suck though so I cant tell you anything about whether its fair or not...fun boat

 

sails on its ear a bit.

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I have one with a sprit, 145 genoa and 100 sq meter kite - says 9 seconds for sprit in w/l

and 15 seconds distance... we are rated at 81 w/l 75 distance crew weight max 1050 (DH)

...we suck though so I cant tell you anything about whether its fair or not...fun boat

 

sails on its ear a bit.

Vikram,

Thanks for the info.....

 

Lets face it.....we all suck, but it at least helps to start with a decent rating. I am currently at 78 regardless off the race configuration, W/L or distance. Of course that is somewhat of the problem with PHRF-LE, as they do not address the various race types.

 

I have noticed the boat is somewhat tender and like most....likes being sailed flat.

 

Did you buy yours with the sprit? I have considered the addition of one, but I am anxiously awaiting a response from PHRF to see what that will do to my rating.

 

Thanks again.

 

WAFI

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I sail with OD rating in Eastern Long Island 90. Above 10 kts we can do great and the bow tacked A-sail is ok. Bow-man really has to help get sail over. I would like to get sprit but maybe to much of rating hit and costly. I would end up around 81 or lower. As of now in a good breeze we can sail with 105's, 109's and the 88. We really have to sail a good race and we can pull it off once and a while. Have 150 but it never worked out so well the sail was weird and the boat gets over powered.

 

I just started playing with rig tuning. Ive moved the mast but all the way forward, I have pretty good sag on the headstay. Don't use much backstay till over 15kts. The shrouds are tensioned to the tuning guide for about 10knts then I loosen or tighten one to two turns depending on conditions.

You do need some rail meat above 15, boat heels over pretty good but it likes to be over about 20 degrees then it lock's into a groove.

I have a blast on the boat good crew helps her perform.

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Finally, the 100's are talking...

 

Okay, so I carry factory installed sprit with a 112 M^2 down wind and we smoke everyone, lower and faster. Carry a 93 M^2 for a small A sail that works pretty well unless we get on a beam reach with wind and then we are on our butts. Have a 100% jib as only head sail. We are rating an 81 on St. Clair. First year with the boat and still struggling to go up wind - opposite of everyone else. Can crank the main in and get it to trim but the Jib will not keep up with it and just will not point as high as many other boats - looking for ideas.

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Finally, the 100's are talking...

 

Okay, so I carry factory installed sprit with a 112 M^2 down wind and we smoke everyone, lower and faster. Carry a 93 M^2 for a small A sail that works pretty well unless we get on a beam reach with wind and then we are on our butts. Have a 100% jib as only head sail. We are rating an 81 on St. Clair. First year with the boat and still struggling to go up wind - opposite of everyone else. Can crank the main in and get it to trim but the Jib will not keep up with it and just will not point as high as many other boats - looking for ideas.

Makinghp,

 

So you have downwind speed covered and I have uphill covered......go figure! Having the factory sprit must be nice. Having larger A-sails is brilliant!

 

I am running both the standard blade and a 150% genoa on the furler. Thus far (after four races) our upwind speed is pretty good. We seem to have decent height as long as we are not over powered. We are still figuring out the sail plan, but so far the genoa is certainly NOT worth the rating hit. Oddly enough, we did not receive a roller fulring credit, so our current rating from PHRF-LE is 78.....which is quite painful and nearly impossible to sail too. The boat is drastically under powered with the 80 sqm kite tacked off the bow. We only sail W/L races; therefore, we are just getting murdered by the symmetrical spinnaker boats down hill. Even the other sprit boats do well, as their spinnaker is not choked out behind the main. It's too bad PHRF does not have a better understanding of this concept. If you read many of the forums, its clear almost all PHRF committees have a different opinion of sprits vs. penalty poles etc....

 

Anyway, depending on the lake Erie sea state, the blade is fine from 8 knots+....this allows us to carry a full main and sail flat. As noted, the boat does get over powered fairly quickly. Fortunately the boat like to feather to weather and she is quite fast with the inside tick dancing vertically. Ass soon as my ass starts falling into the cockpit from the upper combing, I know we are grossly over powered. And I must say, anything outside of the cockpit is terribly uncomfortable for the helmsman. I just feel like a total dick unless I am on the rail!!!

 

We are considering the addition of an deck mounted sprit from Selden. I am curious if any other J/100 owners have experimented with this yet. Seems to be an affordable alternative to the Sprit kit purchased from J.

My biggest concern is what PHRF will do to the (already too low) rating after I add a sprit and run with a larger kite.

 

Very truly

WAFI

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I also thought about the deck mounted sprit it's a lot cheaper. The bow tacked works fine above 10 knts its just sucks to jybe it in all conditions. We mostly do inside jybes.

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Just to add my 2 cents:

We race mostly main and jib, so I can't comment much on the a-sym, but I know we never went to deep unless it was really blowing. Upwind we have a 100% jib and a 140% genoa. We do race in our summer Wednesday evening series, mostly in a dying sea-breeze.

 

So, when the boat was being built I had asked for a 150%-155% head sail and both the dealer (McMichaels) and sail maker (North) said no, that I should go with a 140%.

 

I asked my North sail rep to check on what Good Girl/Bad Girl had in it's inventory and it was 100%, 140% and a "bullet proof" 135%. This is when they were kicking butt in Key West for a couple of years.

 

Unless it's under 5kts I think we still sail upwind to our rating very well.

 

Since the boat was built for me, 2009, I did have the optional genoa track installed a little further forward then where J had been putting them, based on measurements from North. I've heard that the older boats with the optional track it was too far back for a 140%.

 

I'll know more this summer because a second J100 is coming to our club and it has the original tracks with a 150% genoa. Since we race PHRF it will be interesting to see if there is much difference.

 

My boat is a shoal draft and I had ratings from WLIS and PHRF MA and they both were 96. (based off of an 81 base rating, I believe).

 

While racing is fun in this boat, it doesn't require a lot a man power. It is great short handed. We just kill in our annual coed double handed race. And this spring 8 of the 12 times I've been out, I've been solo, (main and jib or reefed main and jib). The boat is a joy to sail.

 

But the highlight was when I got to go head to head with a J95 in an off shore series. That boat could not stay with me and they had my sail maker on board! Why did I enjoy it? Because J wanted to sell me a J95 so bad. They even used our little pond in their marketing. So, glad I went with the J100.

 

Enjoy.

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I also thought about the deck mounted sprit it's a lot cheaper. The bow tacked works fine above 10 knts its just sucks to jybe it in all conditions. We mostly do inside jybes.

I am going to be pulling the trigger on a deck mounter pole. The bow tacked A-sail is okay, but the lack of projection is painful. We always jibe outside the forestay, as inside jibes are too risky and slow......and there is simply on enough room. We heat up the boat to get max pressure then blow the sheet all the way off. This pops the kite out in front of the boat for the jibe.

 

I just received a quote from Selden for the sprit kit.......under 2K for the entire package in carbon. I will have the pole painted white so it will not be so hard to look at!!!!

 

My last move will be to pull the trigger in a new kite. I was hoping to get a response from PHRF about the rating; however, they are not back in session until the Fall.

 

WAFI

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Im going to find out from PHRF what it will cost me.

Id be interested in same kit.

What are the specs? length diameter tube? Why carbon? Are you looking to extend to match the current J100 bow sprit?

 

We do have trouble jybing . We usually have bow man grab the sheet then the clew and really help walk it around. Ging to try your method on the outside.

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Im going to find out from PHRF what it will cost me.

Id be interested in same kit.

What are the specs? length diameter tube? Why carbon? Are you looking to extend to match the current J100 bow sprit?

 

We do have trouble jybing . We usually have bow man grab the sheet then the clew and really help walk it around. Ging to try your method on the outside.

I would be curious to see what your local PHRF group says.........

Assuming there is enough room on the deck, I will be adding the 2.99" carbon pole from Selden. This should make it to where I can match the J/100 factory installation length......which I need to find out. I want carbon because it is lighter and stronger.......longer length at a reduced diameter. I'll paint it white so it does not look so cheesy.

 

The outside is the only way to go.....super easy and fast!

 

WAFI.

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We do have trouble jybing . We usually have bow man grab the sheet then the clew and really help walk it around. Ging to try your method on the outside.

You probably know that many/most sprit boat race crews also walk run the sheet/clew around unless they're short of bodies or it's a much smaller boat like a J/70.

 

 

The outside is the only way to go.....super easy and fast

 

Interesting. I've been sailing sprit/asail boats exclusively for 17 years (incl a J/100) and we do inside jibes almost exclusively, as do most sprit boats I know of. When you set up for outside jibes:

  • the sheet just has further to go, so it's a little slower all else equal
  • you have to guard against running over the lazy sheet, and
  • it makes windward drops a little tougher (getting a hold of the lazy sheet).

Not debating, just another POV.

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We have tried all sorts of things and in varying conditions always have some sort of issue. Id have to agree with WAFI in saying," WE all suck" as of late our take downs are pretty bad.

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Here it is if I opt for sprit.

 

The starting point would be the PHRF base rating of 83 (as opposed to the One-Design rating of 90). The addition of the 4' 3 7/8" sprit would result in a net rating charge of 9 sec/mi. (19 sec. for the sprit minus 9 for a fixed centerline tack point). That would mean you would sail at 74. However, you must be aware that, at no additional rating charge, you can set a 150% genoa and the maximum girth of your spinnaker can grow to 28.49' (a standard PHRF spinnaker girth with no sprit would be 20.70').

Obviously if your sprit length is shorter, the charge for that is lessened (directly proportional to the length of the sprit) but the maximum girth of your spinnaker is also lessened. The use of the 150% genoa would continue to be included. If you wanted to limit yourself to the class jib instead of the genoa there would be a rating credit of 6 sec/mi. that would apply regardless of the specific length of your sprit.

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Here it is if I opt for sprit.

 

The starting point would be the PHRF base rating of 83 (as opposed to the One-Design rating of 90). The addition of the 4' 3 7/8" sprit would result in a net rating charge of 9 sec/mi. (19 sec. for the sprit minus 9 for a fixed centerline tack point). That would mean you would sail at 74. However, you must be aware that, at no additional rating charge, you can set a 150% genoa and the maximum girth of your spinnaker can grow to 28.49' (a standard PHRF spinnaker girth with no sprit would be 20.70').

Obviously if your sprit length is shorter, the charge for that is lessened (directly proportional to the length of the sprit) but the maximum girth of your spinnaker is also lessened. The use of the 150% genoa would continue to be included. If you wanted to limit yourself to the class jib instead of the genoa there would be a rating credit of 6 sec/mi. that would apply regardless of the specific length of your sprit.

 

So that is great info.....thanks!

 

Interestingly enough, for whatever reason, my base rating on Lake Erie is 78 and I was fortunate enough to receive a +3 credit for the roller furling. This rating does allow the boat to carry up to a 153% genoa in addition to the standard class blade.

 

Regrettably, our PHRF group (unlike others around the country) do not issue multiple ratings.....they simply take the average of the two. Therefore if you tend to sail only W/L races, you get hammered. To compensate for this system, boats on Lake Erie are then allowed to carry a symmetrical spinnaker without taking an additional hit. I loath the thought of going back to S-kites just to be more competitive on W/L races.....I will have complete Anarchy on the boat. Not having down fuckers and all the other associated crap is quite nice. Name one manufacture that has designed and developed a new boat in the last several years with a symmetrical spinnaker......you can't.

 

Based on my research thus far, it appears as if (despite all being in the same org) most of the regional PHRF committees have their own way of doing things. Despite several attempts to bring in outside information, my group is less than keen on seeing what their fellow committees do and say. I would think that eventually (hopefully sometime soon) PHRF as a whole will get on the same sheet of music and revamp some of the outdated rules and regulations.

 

More to follow.......I have to go see if a 3" diameter pole can clear my headstay......not a lot of room on the bow of a J/100. Could be tight!

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I really feel for you guys considering adding deck mounted sprits. There's no question a sprit will help performance relative to a bow/stem tacked chute (though it will be partly if not fully offset in rating adjustment, so your race results may not improve at all). But it will also make resale more difficult if you go with an add on sprit (vs factory, expensive as it is), and you won't get your money back unless you stumble on to an avid racer who wants a J/100 (oxymoron?).

 

I've sailed a lot downwind on the J/100 w/o sprit, various J/sprit boats and another brand with an aftermarket deck mounted sprit. A removable prod would be interesting, but cost?

 

Very tough choice, best of luck...

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So Midpack what is your opinion on the bow tacked A-sail and the J100?

Or do I really do suck that bad.

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So Midpack what is your opinion on the bow tacked A-sail and the J100?

Or do I really do suck that bad.

I am sure you sail the boat well, and I suspect you have the results to show it. The J/100 is a good looking, quickish 'gentleman's daysailer' - not a race boat. Messing around with a sprit doesn't fit the design brief. Weren't quite a few J/100's sold with self-tacking/jib booms?

 

Clearly a bow tacked asym forces you to sail hotter angles and jibing is a little tougher, especially in light air. While a sprit will make the boat faster downwind, most if not all regions will adjust the boat's rating as well, so adding a sprit might not ultimately improve race results, so I wouldn't bother. IOW, it's really not worth the $ if it was my money. And after market deck mounted sprits work fine, but pretty ungainly, especially on a really good looking boat like a J/100. YMMV

 

As we all know, every boat has favorable and unfavorable conditions under PHRF or any rating system for that matter. No matter how much you spend on mods, there will be days/conditions where it doesn't matter how well you sail the boat, you won't win. OTOH there will be other days where unless you make some really bad choices, you will place well. With every boat I've owned, I knew when the (PHRF) race started what my chances were for that day based on wind strength & points of sail, etc. Welcome to handicap racing...

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So Midpack what is your opinion on the bow tacked A-sail and the J100?

Or do I really do suck that bad.

I am sure you sail the boat well, and I suspect you have the results to show it. The J/100 is a good looking, quickish 'gentleman's daysailer' - not a race boat. Messing around with a sprit doesn't fit the design brief. Weren't quite a few J/100's sold with self-tacking/jib booms?

 

Clearly a bow tacked asym forces you to sail hotter angles and jibing is a little tougher, especially in light air. While a sprit will make the boat faster downwind, most if not all regions will adjust the boat's rating as well, so adding a sprit might not ultimately improve race results, so I wouldn't bother. IOW, it's really not worth the $ if it was my money. And after market deck mounted sprits work fine, but pretty ungainly, especially on a really good looking boat like a J/100. YMMV

 

As we all know, every boat has favorable and unfavorable conditions under PHRF or any rating system for that matter. No matter how much you spend on mods, there will be days/conditions where it doesn't matter how well you sail the boat, you won't win. OTOH there will be other days where unless yoettu make some really bad choices, you will place well. With every boat I've owned, I knew when the (PHRF) race started what my chances were for that day based on wind strength & points of sail, etc. Welcome to handicap racing...

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Regrettably, there does not appear to be enough restate on the foredeck of the J/100 to properly add a deck mounted sprit. Without major reconstruction of the pulpit and bow light, getting an on deck pole that ends up on center will be nearly impossible. And too your point, we might be chasing our tails, as PHRF will certainly hammers us on the rating.

 

In order to make a gentleman's day sailor more effective on the race course, a standard symmetrical spinnaker might be our only option. I just shake thinking about having to add all that old antiquated deck gear.....not to mention now we are back to sailing with a larger crew. My last 35' sprit boat could easily be raced or cruised with just a couple decent folks. whereas, prior to adding the sprit, it took no less than 5-6 people to effectively fly the kite.

 

Maybe there is no silver bullet, maybe the answer is to keep the boat as a day sailor!

 

Thanks

WAFI

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Id have to agree with Midpack

Had a conversation with a very experienced sailor. He felt my sail inventory maybe part of the problem. Im sailing with a weird A2 from 07 and an A3 from 09. He felt that the advances in asymmetrical sail design would help.

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Interesting to listen to your discussions. Have tried bow tacked chute and found the boat faster ddw wing and wing with a 1.4J pole. added a bolt on custom pole 2ft longer than bow mt. and it still was tucked in behind the main to be effective. Now have added a custom pole to J specs(17.1ft SPL) mounted on centerline much like a C&C30 with a 100 meter kite and it is showing potential. Anything less than the 17.1 SPL I could not make work......

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Interesting to listen to your discussions. Have tried bow tacked chute and found the boat faster ddw wing and wing with a 1.4J pole. added a bolt on custom pole 2ft longer than bow mt. and it still was tucked in behind the main to be effective. Now have added a custom pole to J specs(17.1ft SPL) mounted on centerline much like a C&C30 with a 100 meter kite and it is showing potential. Anything less than the 17.1 SPL I could not make work......

Charlie,

Thanks for the info.

 

So let me make sure I understand correctly, you sail DDW going wing on wing with a penalty pole? Are you keeping the pole on center line, or pushing it out like a whisker pole?

 

The J measurement on the J/100 is 11.5' Are you suggesting a 5.6' penalty pole?

 

I am keen on the idea of going with a larger kite. Based on the information provided in this forum, a 100-115 sqm A-sail is the only way to go. I just have to tread lightly, as our local PHRF group hits hard.

 

If you could elaborate on what you are doing, that would be great.

 

WAFI

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Ya that was confusing. Why would you sail DDW? Its slow unless it's cranking even then still wouldn't sail DDW.

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Finally, the 100's are talking...

 

Okay, so I carry factory installed sprit with a 112 M^2 down wind and we smoke everyone, lower and faster. Carry a 93 M^2 for a small A sail that works pretty well unless we get on a beam reach with wind and then we are on our butts. Have a 100% jib as only head sail. We are rating an 81 on St. Clair. First year with the boat and still struggling to go up wind - opposite of everyone else. Can crank the main in and get it to trim but the Jib will not keep up with it and just will not point as high as many other boats - looking for ideas.

Lets keep talking. Im having the sprit kit installed over the winter.

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It is a bob stay - need it mostly for the Code zero but is helps with the A4 as well at hotter angles -as you can see.

It dead-ends inside the sprit with a length of shock cord attached so it gets sucked into the boat when the sprit is retracted.

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Any photos?I know you've had some great results and a lot of fun with the sprit version 100. What would you recommend as the sail inventory for the sprit J-100? I plan on just using the OD jib , A2 what next.

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Will look for sprit build photos.

When you say OD jib do you mean the silly little 85% thing that comes with the jib boom???

We had a 103% on the roller furler which worked great - in my opinion unless you sail with a full crew all the time going to a 135% or above is too much in anything over about 8kn.

If you are in Sag Harbor/Gardiners Bay where you have wind in the summer then even less reason to have a big jib.

If you have reaching legs in your races then the zero is an awesome addition to the inventory.

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100% jib works well once you get a little air, 7-8knts. We carry A2,A3, small zero and having an A5 made over the winter. Biggest issue with sprit and oversize spinnakers is that you are way over on your side as soon as the wind comes from the beam.

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I am happy to see this topic revisited.............

 

So I have now one full season under my belt on the J/100. We raced with the standard 80Sqm a-sail tacked off the bow and two head sails....the standard blade and a 150% genoa. Sailing on Lake Erie, having the extra horsepower up hill helps, but it is certainly not worth the -3 second pentalty. As discussed prior in this forum, the J/100 is at full power in 8+ so the standard jib is fine.

 

The true issue is downwind. Having the kite buried behind the mainsail is quite punishing to say the least. On a point to point race where you can sail 90 degrees apparent it is fine, but we race W/L 95% of the time.

 

Lake Erie PHRF is not familiar with the J/100 and with the multiple configurations out there it only makes it more difficult to narrow down the rating. despite PHRF being a national org, they do not have a central location showing ratings for designs in the various geographic locations. As such, I have been issued a 81 sec per mile rating.........which is virtual impossible to sail to.

 

Fortunatly PHRF-LE will be assessing my rating this off season, but I have to present to them info on what other boats rate and their sail configurations.

 

It would be helpful to see what other J/100's around the country rate and what their PHRF ratings are.

 

I am inclined to add a sprit and larger A-sail, but I am worried about taking a larger hit. As it stands, (despite sailing hot angels etc) we get crushed downwind.

 

Any info would be a huge help. In need to provide our local PHRF group with info right away.

 

Thanks....

 

WAFI

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I am not sure what you're basing '81 is impossible to sail to' on? How many seconds per mile would you need to be competitive, if you look over your results from last year would 3/6/9 secs/mile have made a difference?

 

The J/100 is great but it's not a race boat. It's a fairly quick daysailer, but like almost every boat there will be conditions, ratings bands and points-of-sail it where the J/100 can sail to an 81, and other conditions or ratings bands where it will be next to impossible - again, like any boat. You're going to have to sail hotter angles against boats with poles or sprits, but that's built into the ratings. If you add a pole or a sprit, you'll take a ratings hit as you acknowledge. It will change the conditions where you can sail to your rating or not, but it won't be a silver bullet. The few who have J/100's with sprits will have to comment on the cost/performance benefit - but you still have to do everything else well to win.

 

A little surprised you don't find the 150% genoa to be worth a 3 sec/mile hit. The difference between a jib and a 150% in light air was night and day on a J/100 in my experience, upwind with jib only was painful in less than 6 knots TWS. We had a 6 sec/mile genoa hit and it was well worth it IME. Unless you sail in consistently moderate to breezy area (Lake Erie has a lot of light air?), the genoa hit would be worth it IME.

 

You probably know it's pretty easy to look up PHRF ratings for all over the country, Lake Michigan J/100's below (all without poles/sprits). Also PHRFNE below, looks like you could learn a lot just looking there. What exactly are you looking for?

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Here it is if I opt for sprit.

 

The starting point would be the PHRF base rating of 83 (as opposed to the One-Design rating of 90). The addition of the 4' 3 7/8" sprit would result in a net rating charge of 9 sec/mi. (19 sec. for the sprit minus 9 for a fixed centerline tack point). That would mean you would sail at 74. However, you must be aware that, at no additional rating charge, you can set a 150% genoa and the maximum girth of your spinnaker can grow to 28.49' (a standard PHRF spinnaker girth with no sprit would be 20.70').

Obviously if your sprit length is shorter, the charge for that is lessened (directly proportional to the length of the sprit) but the maximum girth of your spinnaker is also lessened. The use of the 150% genoa would continue to be included. If you wanted to limit yourself to the class jib instead of the genoa there would be a rating credit of 6 sec/mi. that would apply regardless of the specific length of your sprit.

 

I have sailed the boat for a few years now, what it comes down to is crew. We have been able to compete with J109's 105's and the 88 and do well with the original set up. With good crew and our optimal conditions. OD rating at 90 no genoa. We always fell behind downwind but on heavy air days would do better if we didn't screw up the douse or jibes. When crew was on we did good or better.

I posted the important part of a response from my local PHRF above. I will end up with a 74 with the sprit and 150% Genoa or 80 with just 100% jib. My kite will be 106 instead of 80 sqm. Im adding the sprit, mostly because I want to and compete against sprit boats with the larger kite I'll have more fun and hopefully still be able to compete with those boats.

The rating at 90 was fine and at 80 will be ok crew makes difference.

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Gracious: Thanks for the response........this is helpful.

 

I guess my confusion with PHRF continues. Per my PHRF-LE certificate, my rating is as follows:

 

87 non-spinnaker

78 class base handicap issued by PHRF-LE (80 A-sail off bow & 153% genoa)

81 My current rating. (+3 for roller furling)

 

Racing the year at 81 sec per mile was difficult with the current sail configuration. I race against several J/105's, J/33, and several other designs in the 72-90 range. The J/100 fine uphill, it is off the wind where we get hammered. I think the addition of a larger A-sail is the way to go. Modifying the boat to carry a traditional spinnaker is not going to happen, the crew would jump ship. So my only option is a sprit.......now it is just settling in on a kite size and fuguring out what this is going to do to my rating. My local PHRF has reached out to me regarding my rating and they are will to make adjustments accordingly. I just need to supply them with useful data to support my agruement.

 

MIDPACK: was kind enough to suppy other J/100 ratings.....thank you. I am currious to know what sail combinations the boats from IMPHRF are using. Barracuda in paricular.

 

As much as I love the simplicity of the J/100, I regret purchasing this boat for a W/L PHRF racer. Having a bastardized boat with so many configurations makes it nearly impossible for PHRF to dial in a rating...........

 

If there is additional information of ratings with specific sail configurations, that would be a huge help.

 

Thanks again.....

 

WAFI

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Local rigger told me bigger kite broader shoulders designed to rotate better would work just fine on the boat without pole or sprit. He felt I should have opted for that before I went to sprit. The original 80 sqm kite was the original recommendation from J-boats and the OD kite. Under your PHRF rules you should still be able to build a bigger kite within the original set up. We had a J100 here that did great within the original set up. Need to sail hot angles all the time. The symmetrical is probably the best option I wasn't interested in going that route. Get the rating worked out and try it like that for another season. MP is right about accessing ratings you can see what boats rate all over the country. You should probably be at 84 with the 150%.

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Great news to report........

My local PHRF committee has reviewed my rating appeal and has concluded that my former rating was to low. After much discussion, my J100 now rates 90 with a +3 for roller furling......despite be standard equipment on the boat. I'm not going to complain about that!

 

I am stoked to race this year at 93,........

 

Thanks to all for your input. That was helpful in securing a better rating.

 

Wafi

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congrats. Im waiting to see what my rating will be , just added sprit and bigger kite.

Thanks! I am very happy with the results. Per my local committee, I can use a standard kite or an A-sail off a sprit with no hit. This is assuming the sprit stays within the Jboat factory spec and the kite remains at 80 sqm. Now if I extend the sprit past Jboats factory number or run larger kites.......all bets are off.

 

Good luck on your end.....let me know what they say.

 

Wafi

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Im not sure how thats going to work. 90 is the standard rating for the boat in its stock original bow tacked A-sail 100% jib anything after that starts to reduce that number. At 93 you should be pretty happy . You might want to check on the allowance of the sprit. I will probably be at around 80 with the sprit.

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congrats. Im waiting to see what my rating will be , just added sprit and bigger kite.

Thanks! I am very happy with the results. Per my local committee, I can use a standard kite or an A-sail off a sprit with no hit. This is assuming the sprit stays within the Jboat factory spec and the kite remains at 80 sqm. Now if I extend the sprit past Jboats factory number or run larger kites.......all bets are off.

Good luck on your end.....let me know what they say.

Wafi

Im not sure how thats going to work. 90 is the standard rating for the boat in its stock original bow tacked A-sail 100% jib anything after that starts to reduce that number. At 93 you should be pretty happy . You might want to check on the allowance of the sprit. I will probably be at around 80 with the sprit.

I can't imagine adding a sprit, and then staying with an 80 sqm spinnaker. You couldn't use the OD 80 sqm spinnaker with a sprit (luff too short), and a redesigned 80 sqm chute with the right luff length would be awfully 'high aspect.' If you're adding a sprit, the ideal new chute would be larger, with a significant ratings hit.

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This is from local PHRF.

The starting point would be the PHRF base rating of 83 (as opposed to the One-Design rating of 90). The addition of the 4' 3 7/8" sprit would result in a net rating charge of 9 sec/mi. (19 sec. for the sprit minus 9 for a fixed centerline tack point). That would mean you would sail at 74. However, you must be aware that, at no additional rating charge, you can set a 150% genoa and the maximum girth of your spinnaker can grow to 28.49' (a standard PHRF spinnaker girth with no sprit would be 20.70').

Ill end up with 106 sqm kite and will take a credit of 6 sec for 100% jib end up @ 80 phrf. Should be fun

 

 

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Just to add my 2 cents:

We race mostly main and jib, so I can't comment much on the a-sym, but I know we never went to deep unless it was really blowing. Upwind we have a 100% jib and a 140% genoa. We do race in our summer Wednesday evening series, mostly in a dying sea-breeze.

 

So, when the boat was being built I had asked for a 150%-155% head sail and both the dealer (McMichaels) and sail maker (North) said no, that I should go with a 140%.

 

I asked my North sail rep to check on what Good Girl/Bad Girl had in it's inventory and it was 100%, 140% and a "bullet proof" 135%. This is when they were kicking butt in Key West for a couple of years.

 

Unless it's under 5kts I think we still sail upwind to our rating very well.

 

Since the boat was built for me, 2009, I did have the optional genoa track installed a little further forward then where J had been putting them, based on measurements from North. I've heard that the older boats with the optional track it was too far back for a 140%.

 

I'll know more this summer because a second J100 is coming to our club and it has the original tracks with a 150% genoa. Since we race PHRF it will be interesting to see if there is much difference.

 

My boat is a shoal draft and I had ratings from WLIS and PHRF MA and they both were 96. (based off of an 81 base rating, I believe).

 

While racing is fun in this boat, it doesn't require a lot a man power. It is great short handed. We just kill in our annual coed double handed race. And this spring 8 of the 12 times I've been out, I've been solo, (main and jib or reefed main and jib). The boat is a joy to sail.

 

But the highlight was when I got to go head to head with a J95 in an off shore series. That boat could not stay with me and they had my sail maker on board! Why did I enjoy it? Because J wanted to sell me a J95 so bad. They even used our little pond in their marketing. So, glad I went with the J100.

 

Enjoy.

 

What is the length of the full length track

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Length of the full track? Don't know, I was told that was the option after we built our boat. The intent was to have one track for at least a 100% jib and a 140% Genoa with sufficient room for fore/aft adjustment. Not sure if it included a 155% Genoa.

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I have both tracks but it seems Im probably set up for 150% my track is set farther back. The track starts 17 ft back from the stem fitting

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I have both tracks but it seems Im probably set up for 150% my track is set farther back. The track starts 17 ft back from the stem fitting

 

The boat is on the hard, but I went today to put on the winter cover, so I have some numbers for you.

 

All measurements are from the base of the head stay.

Jib track: Starts at 11' 1", Ends at 14' 4"

Genoa track: Starts at 15' 11" Ends at 19' 2"

 

When the boat was being build, J wanted to know where to place the Genoa track, so I asked North (who was building my sails) and they said to center the track at 17' 6" for the 140% Genoa.

This track is centered at 17' 6.48". close enough. Most of my car settings are 4 to 6 inches in front of the mid-point so, J was correct that with the 150% track, the 140 would be right at the end of the track.

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When Bad Girl first hit the water and was doing really well, my boat was being built.  I asked my North Sails rep what Bad Girl had in its inventory.  It was 140, a "bullet proof" 130 and a 100.  When Bad Girl morphed to Good Girl I'm not sure what changes were made.  That jib car looks further back from where we have it so this may be a 150 or 155.   Can't quite tell.

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So after making the above post, I went over for a couple of hour sail.  I also checked the other J/100 at our club, who has the original track and uses a 150% genoa.

Looks like Good Girl, like Bad Girl has a 140% up.  The original track options comes back to almost the jib sheet turning block, the one pictured does not.

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Eastern long Island Im rated @79 with sprit and oversized kite @106 sqm .   I would take another 6 sec hit to go to 150 genoa. 

 

Any info on rig tune would be helpfull if anyone has messed with it. I have mine set and tend to lossen it if its light or tighten if its breezy.

Who are you making your J-100 sails?

 

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We had a J100 on LIS a few years ago. We had a 145 Jib but didn't have a bow sprit. Small spin off the bow. The boat was very fast with the 145 in light air. It needed the bigger jib to get through the chop. We would be overpowered in 15+ and go to a smaller sail. The lack of bowsprit is why we sold the boat. We were rated 96 PHRF W/L. Very quick upwind and were faster than boats rated much lower but it was painful down wind. When we sailed vs the J100's with the sprit and a 106 jib we were about even in any wind under like 10 knots.  

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We just received our new 3Di 100% jib with a roller furling RBS top-batten for extra leech support. The new sail is about 10-15 square feet larger than our previous quantum OD jib. It completely changes the way the boat sails in less than 10 knots of breeze. We fooled around with the idea of adding a big genoa like Bad/Good Girl but at the end of the day we didn't do it in order to keep things simpler, sail with less crew, not install genoa tracks, etc...Keeping her a beer can boat right now. 

The bow-tacked kite downwind is definitely not ideal, especially in under 10 knots of breeze but as soon as you can put the bow down and ease the tack line to lift tack and project the kite to windward things slightly improve. 

On our boat we have the mast butt all the way forward and the shrouds just tight enough so that the leeward shrouds are just going slack in about 15-18 knots. Probably a little too loose in that much wind and a little tight under 7 knots but we feel it is a good base setting. By the way we currently rate 96 (up from 90) a year ago in the GYA and we will probably appeal for another 3 to 6 seconds in the Fall. 

Ideally, if we ever intent on really racing her around the buoys we would probably order a 155% genoa, penalty pole and go with an over sized symmetrical kite. 

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All,

I loved the j/100......simply a wonderful boat to own and sail.  Regrettably someone liked it more and made me an offer I could not say no too.     Just prior to selling, I ordered a Selden carbon fiber bow sprit kit that arrived well after the boat sold.   Part# GC088    This is a 3" diameter carbon pole 10' long w/ the associated deck fitting.   The pole kit retailed for just over $2300 plus shipping.....

I now have a sprit kit and no boat.....not good!     As such, I am interested in selling the Sprit kit

If interested in purchasing, please send me an email and I will send pictures and additional details.

http://www.seldenmast.com/en/products/spinnaker_-_gennaker_hardware/gennaker_bowsprits.html

 

Very truly

Wafi

 

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C'mon man,

sometimes I post just to keep this thread going give us some info on the 100. 

Im thinking of doing an outhaul upgrade essentially the same thing they did to the 105 attaching a block to the existing and making it 12:1 instead of 6:1

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Who has done the sprit upgrade and can provide an approximate cost installed? I know the kit itself is around 4k from Forte Spars. 

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