shaggybaxter

Construction of a Pogo 12.50

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7 hours ago, spyderpig said:

Hi Shaggy, not heard much from you recently, hows things with Fusion. I am sailing the Heiniken regatta in Sint Maarten at the mo. Getting Akouavi set up properly for racing was interesting. We removed my fixed staysail removed the lazy bag. Going upwind racing is a completely different experience. We have rigged some inhaulers bring the clew inboard about 30cm in light winds and getting the main track well up to windward. It seems to work as we smoked a couple of class 40's today in 5-10 knots wind. Las day tomorrow and 15k plus forecast so we will probably have to work much harder, the boat is magic though. Looking to get a reacher (A3) for next season as my geneker measures as a head sail here so we do not use it for racing.

G’day Spyder,

Great to hear you’re enjoying the boat mate! I’m not sure I follow you regards the fixed staysail? You’re running the removable inner forestay I assume? 

I’d love to see the inner barber hauler setup , Ive done it using the third reef but nothing permanent as yet. You gotta be happy touching up the Class 40’s! 

We had a race last night, 15 -17 ish but some nice angles, we held off a couple of the bigger guys I think mainly due to being able to plane in those wind speeds. It’s great fun when cracked off a few degrees, so you’re motivating me to get those inner barber haulers sorted. 

St Maarten looks like great racing, post lots of pics for me here, would love to see some of your boat, (I suck at Facebook) 

cheers,

SB

 

 

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Thanxs for the vid Shaggy , may you have many more good times on Fusion .

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Yes, I have Josh Tucker on board from North NZ

and he fixed some dynema from the sheeting ring through the outer block hoops at the base of the mast then joined them halfway back then to the third reef clutch. In the light stuff it made a big difference in keeping our speed closer to the wind so we did not loose our lane. I have a fixed staysail as most of my sailing is cruising so for racing it is better to remove it, only takes 1/2 hour. 

I will sort some pics soonest. Hopefully there should be some vids here somewhere.

CS

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35 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

bout time you entered the Melb - Osaka race - it hasn't started yet

Part of me would love to Dark, but the prep is pretty daunting. I was swapping some emails with Will Oxley, he’s helping out one of the entries, I’m tossing up getting Expedition just so I can get into his books. I’d want to be able to master them as a minimum benchmark before I felt even remotely qualified to attempt this monolith!

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http://www.solo-tasman.co.nz/

Quick Delivery from Gladstone & you can make the start :) The bonus being you end up 100nm away from home at the finish! 

M20 is 6500nm journey from Brisbane to the start, the race & home again. That's pretty time consuming for mere mortals. 

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19 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Part of me would love to Dark, but the prep is pretty daunting. I was swapping some emails with Will Oxley, he’s helping out one of the entries, I’m tossing up getting Expedition just so I can get into his books. I’d want to be able to master them as a minimum benchmark before I felt even remotely qualified to attempt this monolith!

Yes and think of the spares you will need to take.

Image result for yacht wheel factory

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LB, I took your advice and I've culled all the unnecessary stuff, I'm pretty sure we're down to race trim, but I think I can turn up a new wheel if needed. 

Whaddya think? A lot better now ain't it?  

machine-shop-boards-done-1024x626.thumb.jpg.b6f6e66151f75c1164bfaba7f450239f.jpg 

Edit: BTW, don't stand on the cockpit floor, I haven't glued it back in yet. That workbench was a bitch to lift  into place. 

 

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Image result for bunnings tits

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LB stop posting that. Shaggy keeps going to Bunnings looking for her & leaves with even more tools. 

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Eyes on the prize time Scan. Lets get that aircraft carrier nice and heavy for the race.

Image result for bunnings tits

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Eyes on the prize time Scan. Lets get that aircraft carrier nice and heavy for the race.

Image result for bunnings tits

LB 

 

Ive never seen her in gladstone when going to bunnings and I’ve spent a few weeks in gladstone going to bunnings. 

 

I may have seen her Cousin through, she was the 1 with tat’s all over and work boots 

 

pulpit

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I finally got around to getting the new IPad Pro for remote viewing of the Adrena software that resides on the Nav station PC. 

Initial results look good, the IPad Pro has made a serious attempt at being sunlight readable through some clever tweaking rather than increasing the nits and killing battery performance, and the Splashtop app is excellent, there’s no lag and seems to actually work really well! It’s far better than my previous VNC and Remote Desktop efforts. 

Fusion doesn’t have any masthead instruments, or for that matter any instruments forrard of the helm positions, hence the IPad. An armor-X cover and mount on the starboard cockpit bulkhead should help out. 

I’ve also loaded ISailor and connected the wifi NMEA data to it off the NKE network, and then loaded the NKE telemetry app, so we can play around with what works the best. 

Warning: if you get ISailor be prepared to pay an additional sum for opening up the NMEA inputs, but it’s worth it for mine, I’m liking the result. The crew always seem to have a spare IPad with Navionics in their kitbag hence I thought I’d give ISailor a go.

The main reason for all this is I’m really keen on recording/logging all the sensor data input for the B2G race, so post race I can compare this to the PredictWind’s 4 models and see how accurate they are. Kind of a hobby of mine, so having a 360 odd nm mile coastal race as a benchmark will be interesting. 

Im out to lunch on the PWE and PWG modes so far, ECWMF seems to be the most accurate, but this is gut feel not fact. I now should have some tangible data to finally reference against. 

Bunnings doesn’t sell any of this of course, so I had it all delivered there so I could at least go there to pick it up. And for the record, Pulpits reality’s a lot closer to mine than LB’s....

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She was a strange girl that one. I was walking out with my purchases when I saw my wife's car in the carpark. Because I was supposed to be on a diet, I said to this random chick walking out 'do you know we're I can hide my sausage?' And she did that. 

Wynnum west bunnings has the nicest people shop there.

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Hey nice video. I like the speeded up action at the start. Compresses out the boring bits!

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It was boring watching them gybe from horizon to horizon 2 miles in front of us all day but not being able to catch them.

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It’s ok, LB, The check was in Australian currency and paid for about half of the boom repair. And the they don’t wear blue and yellow

I didn’t know the video was sped up. Here in NJ there are a lot of meth heads that move around like that...

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Great great gem of a  blog! - read it all in a day nursimg a cold thank you very much for sharing.

 

I will try to roumd some mates and charter  a Pogo next year in Greece totry it out, this year we already booked our trips - Hanse 415 in Croatia with kids in two weeks and again at the end of school holidays.  I am currently coastal sailor - just skippered my first regatta - last, 3rd from last and disqualified - had to use engine :) - pretty long way to go to your experience, never done offshore.

I can see from your videos how Pogo would be great fun in the Med and in Greece with Meltemi (lot of 20-30 breeze last year). 

The other boat I am thinking of chartering next year to try out would be Garcia Exploration 45  - just to explain I was thinking super safe cruiser so far.

But Garcia I would only buy on retirement - not enough time for expeditions now.  Your blog got me thinking how much fun I could have in the years to come...

My only hesitation is realted to offshore sailing in big waves - I want to buy just one boat in my life...

Say everything goes great and in couple of years we would like to do some passages - most experienced cruisers seem to prefer heaving to in a bad storm.  What would be your storm tactics in a Pogo if caught in say 50kn and big swell?  Potentially with kids and wife on board?

 

Thks in advance

Alex

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Shaggy, you’ve torn up a rudder, broke one of the wheels, hit a whale and now trashed your boom - all in a couple of years.  Do we need to do an intervention? 

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3 hours ago, J28 said:

Shaggy, you’ve torn up a rudder, broke one of the wheels, hit a whale and now trashed your boom - all in a couple of years.  Do we need to do an intervention? 

Don't forget the sunfish...

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8 hours ago, cafesitter said:

Great great gem of a  blog! - read it all in a day nursimg a cold thank you very much for sharing.

 

I will try to roumd some mates and charter  a Pogo next year in Greece totry it out, this year we already booked our trips - Hanse 415 in Croatia with kids in two weeks and again at the end of school holidays.  I am currently coastal sailor - just skippered my first regatta - last, 3rd from last and disqualified - had to use engine :) - pretty long way to go to your experience, never done offshore.

I can see from your videos how Pogo would be great fun in the Med and in Greece with Meltemi (lot of 20-30 breeze last year). 

The other boat I am thinking of chartering next year to try out would be Garcia Exploration 45  - just to explain I was thinking super safe cruiser so far.

But Garcia I would only buy on retirement - not enough time for expeditions now.  Your blog got me thinking how much fun I could have in the years to come...

My only hesitation is realted to offshore sailing in big waves - I want to buy just one boat in my life...

Say everything goes great and in couple of years we would like to do some passages - most experienced cruisers seem to prefer heaving to in a bad storm.  What would be your storm tactics in a Pogo if caught in say 50kn and big swell?  Potentially with kids and wife on board?

 

Thks in advance

Alex

Unless you own a longkeeled leadmine the best thing you can do with your copy of Adlard Coles 'Heavy weather sailing' is to leave it on your coffee table to impress non sailors. On a boat like a Pogo, you keep the most sea worthy part of the boat into the breaking waves. With the huge freeboard forward on a Pogo and the small twin rudders 'heaving too' will simply cause the boat to lay beam on to the sea. Keep moving, keep steerage and keep your bow into the waves.

Oh and have experienced many Meltemi's in the Argean, the term 'great fun' doesn't spring to mind..

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I've heard that you can simply sail or motor upwind in 50-60 knots...

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12 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Unless you own a longkeeled leadmine the best thing you can do with your copy of Adlard Coles 'Heavy weather sailing' is to leave it on your coffee table to impress non sailors. On a boat like a Pogo, you keep the most sea worthy part of the boat into the breaking waves. With the huge freeboard forward on a Pogo and the small twin rudders 'heaving too' will simply cause the boat to lay beam on to the sea. Keep moving, keep steerage and keep your bow into the waves.

Oh and have experienced many Meltemi's in the Argean, the term 'great fun' doesn't spring to mind..

Thats what I meant LB15 - that you can not heave to:)   Presumably you would be running -  but it is a fast boat how about surfing into the troughs? Pitchpole risk?  Would you use drogue?  Just asking the more experienced sailors here for their opinions - I thought I made it clear I am not quite an America’s Cup winner just yet;)

We managed to run away before Meltemi from the islands to the other side to Hydra and it was 20-25kn on that side and it was fun, Cyclades was more like 40.

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13 minutes ago, cafesitter said:

Thats what I meant LB15 - that you can not heave to:)   Presumably you would be running -  but it is a fast boat how about surfing into the troughs? Pitchpole risk?  Would you use drogue?  Just asking the more experienced sailors here for their opinions - I thought I made it clear I am not quite an America’s Cup winner just yet;)

We managed to run away before Meltemi from the islands to the other side to Hydra and it was 20-25kn on that side and it was fun, Cyclades was more like 40.

I think running would depend on many factors - see state, Helm experience and the location of the Low if that is the cause of the 50K. From my limited experience in driving the POGO, it doesn't seem to have any tendency to stick its nose in, It has massive volume forward.

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On 6/17/2018 at 8:09 AM, cafesitter said:

 

Say everything goes great and in couple of years we would like to do some passages - most experienced cruisers seem to prefer heaving to in a bad storm.  What would be your storm tactics in a Pogo if caught in say 50kn and big swell?  Potentially with kids and wife on board?

 

Forereach. The boat likes it, and you're sailing, which helps physiologically.

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On 6/17/2018 at 11:09 PM, cafesitter said:

Great great gem of a  blog! - read it all in a day nursimg a cold thank you very much for sharing.

 

I will try to roumd some mates and charter  a Pogo next year in Greece totry it out, this year we already booked our trips - Hanse 415 in Croatia with kids in two weeks and again at the end of school holidays.  I am currently coastal sailor - just skippered my first regatta - last, 3rd from last and disqualified - had to use engine :) - pretty long way to go to your experience, never done offshore.

I can see from your videos how Pogo would be great fun in the Med and in Greece with Meltemi (lot of 20-30 breeze last year). 

The other boat I am thinking of chartering next year to try out would be Garcia Exploration 45  - just to explain I was thinking super safe cruiser so far.

But Garcia I would only buy on retirement - not enough time for expeditions now.  Your blog got me thinking how much fun I could have in the years to come...

My only hesitation is realted to offshore sailing in big waves - I want to buy just one boat in my life...

Say everything goes great and in couple of years we would like to do some passages - most experienced cruisers seem to prefer heaving to in a bad storm.  What would be your storm tactics in a Pogo if caught in say 50kn and big swell?  Potentially with kids and wife on board?

 

Thanks in advance

Alex

G'day Alex,

The most wind we've had is in the mid 40's, a few times now, so I don't have any practical experience to offer you at over 50 knots, wind speeds as you know are logarithmic, so don't take this as gospel for higher wind and wave patterns. A short summary is the boat handles better the more wind you throw at it. 30+ knots is comfortable and you start getting water over the deck, 40 knots is fingertip steering and easily controlled, but but it's wet, you're going to have sheets of water coming off the bow.

Lydia has driven it in shallow waters (4-6 m) in 30+ knots, and the short steep swells that result are what is not comfortable.  He was working to keep the bow up and not aerate the rudders every time we drove it into to the wave in front, but admittedly at that time I had a shit ton of weight forrard of the mast which didn't help. Trying to pinch in short sharp swells is the worst mode. Unless you're racing, I'd recommend simply cracking off and running a wider angle, and the boat settles, plants a chine and off it goes. 

Can we heave to? Yes. Does it come to rest beam on? No, but it wont sit at 45 degrees to the wind either, it will settle somewhere inbetween at about 60 deg.

What would I do in foul weather with wife and kids on board? Keep them in the cockpit, its safe. roomy and more comfortable than downstairs in big seas, keep minimal sail up and drive it. What LB and Jackdaw said is good advice, get the boat diagonal over the swells on a lazy angle, this applies to windward or offwind, downsize sails for comfort. Reaching or offwind angles and long ocean swells and its easy to drive. 

I actually haven't used the third reef in anger even in those conditions, but I would if it was a sustained blow. It's a big reef , the boat is not overpowered and the wide beam soaks up the gusts. Foresail-wise the staysail would be up with the reef in to balance the boat. 

The problem I have with heaving to is the wide beam and deep keel. It can do it, but in a big nasty sea the rolling motion is quite violent compared to a canoe shaped hull. Any boat that is stiff has the same issue, you pay for it with an increase in the severity of the rolling motion. A narrow hull design with a shoal draft is much gentler on its rolling motion than a fat bottomed hull like the Pogo. So, sail it rather than heave to.

Hope this helps. Obviously, stay in harbor if you have the family on board and you're cruising and the forecast is shit, but if you get caught out in filthy weather its a safe boat, not exhausting to manage,  and confidence inspiring. 

A caveat to the preceding statement: I got caught once in a bad storm in Bass Strait, blowing 60kn and huge seas, and I can safely say I don't care what boat you're on, I'd give away my first born in a heartbeat rather than knowingly go out in those sorts of conditions, so don't let the above fool you into trying something stupid, it's still only a 40' sailboat after all.

Cheers!

SB

 

      

 

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Happy Birthday Shaggy! I got you something - that rustic timber dining table you wanted.

Sorry about the quality of the photo of it, it was the only one i could find.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nikitta Beatrice Lovers from Sapphic Erotica

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Happy Birthday Shaggy! I got you something - that rustic timber dining table you wanted.

Sorry about the quality of the photo of it, it was the only one i could find.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nikitta Beatrice Lovers from Sapphic Erotica

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks LB,  appreciate it. 

That's a very nice...errr..icon. I shall treasure it always mate. 

 

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21 hours ago, cafesitter said:

thks guys:)  hope we get to try her soon:)

 

I've done what you're thinking of doing  quite a number of times. You'll quickly learn that with her design, construction, and seakeeping, that you are in fact the weakest link in the system. The Pogo will put up with an atrocious amount of abuse from the sea can come through fine. That being said, while 20-30 knots is a joy in the boat, there is absolutely no reason to be out in 50 while charting in the Cyclades. The morning forecast will announce what to expect that day or even the day before. Explore the island you are on and get drink on cheap wine.

If you DO get caught out, the forereaching technique works very well due to the 3-D staysail sheeting which gives a wide tight sheet, as well as the low gooseneck and wide traveler that give the same control of the main.

There are of course lots of lees to hide behind, but watch out for shafts of wind screaming down the backside of islands (Bora-style) that can ruin your day.

 

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17 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

G'day Alex,

The most wind we've had is in the mid 40's, a few times now, so I don't have any practical experience to offer you at over 50 knots, wind speeds as you know are logarithmic, so don't take this as gospel for higher wind and wave patterns. A short summary is the boat handles better the more wind you throw at it. 30+ knots is comfortable and you start getting water over the deck, 40 knots is fingertip steering and easily controlled, but but it's wet, you're going to have sheets of water coming off the bow.

Lydia has driven it in shallow waters (4-6 m) in 30+ knots, and the short steep swells that result are what is not comfortable.  He was working to keep the bow up and not aerate the rudders every time we drove it into to the wave in front, but admittedly at that time I had a shit ton of weight forrard of the mast which didn't help. Trying to pinch in short sharp swells is the worst mode. Unless you're racing, I'd recommend simply cracking off and running a wider angle, and the boat settles, plants a chine and off it goes. 

Can we heave to? Yes. Does it come to rest beam on? No, but it wont sit at 45 degrees to the wind either, it will settle somewhere inbetween at about 60 deg.

What would I do in foul weather with wife and kids on board? Keep them in the cockpit, its safe. roomy and more comfortable than downstairs in big seas, keep minimal sail up and drive it. What LB and Jackdaw said is good advice, get the boat diagonal over the swells on a lazy angle, this applies to windward or offwind, downsize sails for comfort. Reaching or offwind angles and long ocean swells and its easy to drive. 

I actually haven't used the third reef in anger even in those conditions, but I would if it was a sustained blow. It's a big reef , the boat is not overpowered and the wide beam soaks up the gusts. Foresail-wise the staysail would be up with the reef in to balance the boat. 

The problem I have with heaving to is the wide beam and deep keel. It can do it, but in a big nasty sea the rolling motion is quite violent compared to a canoe shaped hull. Any boat that is stiff has the same issue, you pay for it with an increase in the severity of the rolling motion. A narrow hull design with a shoal draft is much gentler on its rolling motion than a fat bottomed hull like the Pogo. So, sail it rather than heave to.

Hope this helps. Obviously, stay in harbor if you have the family on board and you're cruising and the forecast is shit, but if you get caught out in filthy weather its a safe boat, not exhausting to manage,  and confidence inspiring. 

A caveat to the preceding statement: I got caught once in a bad storm in Bass Strait, blowing 60kn and huge seas, and I can safely say I don't care what boat you're on, I'd give away my first born in a heartbeat rather than knowingly go out in those sorts of conditions, so don't let the above fool you into trying something stupid, it's still only a 40' sailboat after all.

Cheers!

SB

 

      

 

Happy Birthday and thank you for taking the time to write such a long answer I really appreciate it.  I will charter a Pogo as the next boat for sure - there is a 50 and three 12.50s in Greece and one 12.50 in Martinique which could be a great Christmas vacation:)  I will also try the Garcia and make a decision which way to go - for the Med coastal sailing I currently do Pogo would be a clear winner - I stay in harbour in foul weather.  The only dilemma I have is would Garcia be better if I want to try some ocean passages in couple of years after I retire and there the idea of heaving to and staying put shorthanded is appealing.

Your  blog really made my day and got me through a flu I read all 11 long screens in one go -  feel free to tell Structures if they ever get an order from Alex in Slovakia you are due a full commission:)  

 

Many thanks again

 

Alex

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Hi Alex,

As a fellow 12.50 owner I agree they will take what ever you throw at them. I had some passages in the Carrib this winter where the winds were well above seasonal norms and was more than comfortable in the 40+ range on a close reach with 3 reefs in the main and the staysail. Tis years RORC600 had 2 12.50 entered and both finished which is more than can be said for more than half the fleet, it was a boat breaking race.

I sailed back from Antigua in early May and the first 3 days were almost on the wind with large seas and the wind did not drop below 25k. Not something you would want to do if avoidable but still an OK sail. What more than mafe up for it was a 250 mile day when the wind went round to 130TWA.

I can see no reason why I would want to buy a Garcia? They do not strike me as the type of boat that would interest anyone considering a 12.50? Join us sailing a modern boat.

 

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1 hour ago, Jackdaw said:

Thanks Jackdaw - I dont go nowhere in 5O on purpose, but I am considering getting a Pogo and wanted to know if it was a good boat if we ever get caught in a storm -   that it is great fun to sail I can see on Shaggys videos the speeds when she is planing are incredible cant wait to try one with my mates;) I exactly worry about being the weakest link because in a family setup I am pretty much the only one who can try and steer the boat and I can do it for couple of hours but not for days I am no Bernard Moitessier by any stretch of imagination - that is why the heaving to is appealing.  Many thanks for the forereaching tip I will try it when there is a bit of wind.;)  Many thanks - Alex;)

 

1 hour ago, Jackdaw said:

I've done what you're thinking of doing  quite a number of times. You'll quickly learn that with her design, construction, and seakeeping, that you are in fact the weakest link in the system. The Pogo will put up with an atrocious amount of abuse from the sea can come through fine. That being said, while 20-30 knots is a joy in the boat, there is absolutely no reason to be out in 50 while charting in the Cyclades. The morning forecast will announce what to expect that day or even the day before. Explore the island you are on and get drink on cheap wine.

If you DO get caught out, the forereaching technique works very well due to the 3-D staysail sheeting which gives a wide tight sheet, as well as the low gooseneck and wide traveler that give the same control of the main.

There are of course lots of lees to hide behind, but watch out for shafts of wind screaming down the backside of islands (Bora-style) that can ruin your day.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, spyderpig said:

Hi Alex,

As a fellow 12.50 owner I agree they will take what ever you throw at them. I had some passages in the Carrib this winter where the winds were well above seasonal norms and was more than comfortable in the 40+ range on a close reach with 3 reefs in the main and the staysail. Tis years RORC600 had 2 12.50 entered and both finished which is more than can be said for more than half the fleet, it was a boat breaking race.

I sailed back from Antigua in early May and the first 3 days were almost on the wind with large seas and the wind did not drop below 25k. Not something you would want to do if avoidable but still an OK sail. What more than mafe up for it was a 250 mile day when the wind went round to 130TWA.

I can see no reason why I would want to buy a Garcia? They do not strike me as the type of boat that would interest anyone considering a 12.50? Join us sailing a modern boat.

 

Thanks a lot thats exactly the sort of opinion I was looking for.   Garcia was a plan for a sort of bullet proof voyaging boat when I retire - in the years to come I would just keep chartering the standard production boats in the Med - I usually get a Hanse, they are not bad.  But now I am thinking how much fun would be to sail a rocket like a Pogo instead - very tempting I am definitely getting one for a week as soon as I can organise a bunch of my mates;)   

Thank you very much for sharing - and of course I am very jealous of your toy!:)

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Shaggy, or anyone on this thread. Is there a consensus as to the differences in performance, build quality, seaworthiness between the 12.50 and the Pogo 50. If you were to do extended cruising with the odd long distance race thrown in what would be your choice. Lets assume you can afford either boat but could live aboard either as well. I think I'm trying to understand is, for the extra length and room below do you give away race performance. The results for the 12.50 are becoming more and more encouraging well I have not seen a 50' record any finishes of note. 

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11 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Thanks LB,  appreciate it. 

That's a very nice...errr..icon. I shall treasure it always mate. 

 

Damn it. I hate it when porn is blocked. I will try again. 

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11 hours ago, cafesitter said:

 

Thank you very much for sharing - and of course I am very jealous of your toy!:)

BTW, my 12.50 is not just a toy but my main home.

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11 hours ago, Kapt'n Kirk said:

Shaggy, or anyone on this thread. Is there a consensus as to the differences in performance, build quality, seaworthiness between the 12.50 and the Pogo 50. If you were to do extended cruising with the odd long distance race thrown in what would be your choice. Lets assume you can afford either boat but could live aboard either as well. I think I'm trying to understand is, for the extra length and room below do you give away race performance. The results for the 12.50 are becoming more and more encouraging well I have not seen a 50' record any finishes of note. 

G'day Kaptain,

In General. I spent a day in the factory and crawled all over a 50 next to mine that was in the final build stages. From memory: the layout wasn't that much different to a 12.50, just everything was larger/roomier. Actually, scratch that, its fucking cavernous below. The rear cabin on the 12.50 is big enough, on the 50 it's massive. Trim is very understated but very classy, befitting the price point. Gymmballed nav table etc etc, it's nicely thought out and engineered. There is more focus on minimising the wetted surface area compared to the 12.50, which is dictated by the Class 40 hull mould, I remember Christian being quite happy with the 50's light air performance. Hull design and toughness of build is is equal in every way to the 12.50. Some pics of the 50...

IMG_1907_zpsdghzryks.thumb.JPG.694f8fc638f80357d4e7f743f1adeff2.JPG

IMG_1905_zpse7rgosth.thumb.JPG.07bd354b9a9ae803ba2e0b8ba67c2290.JPG
 

 IMG_1909_zpswzslp0ms.thumb.JPG.642ccf4bc18ed4c39a2fe107114bd3e0.JPG

I don't believe the 50 would suffer, or be any different in performance accomodating the obvious benefit from a longer waterline length.  It is a 9 ton 50" that follows the same design philosophy as all the Pogo Cruiser/racers. I know Christian and the designer from Finot Conq sailed a 50 in the 2012 ARC and from memory came 4th overall? You could look at that race results for an indication of the competition and performance, I can't remember the competition.

Why isn't here much data on the 50? I think its at a 50' price point, and the Pogo CR's accomodate to a certain section of the market. They're an easily sailed, fast, short hander that are great fun to sail with a minimalism design philosophy in their interior fitout.  But, at that level you have a lot of competition; TP52, Cookson 50's for race boats, Bendy First 50 or XP44's as CR's, and Oyster, Hanse cruisers as well as Bav and Bendy and-and-and in the cruisers. Big range of options. a 12.50 or 50 is aimed at cruisers that love short handed speeding and comfort, or for older racer types like me that don't want 8 guys sitting on the rail to be competitive.

Pogo to Pogo. So ratios of scale aside, would the 50 suffer a hit to performance compared to the 12.50? Very much doubt it, and I'd argue it would be better. The main reason is they had free reign over the hull design where the 12.50 adheres to the Class 40 hull shape. I know for a fact Pogo and FC prioritized performance and sea worthiness for the design of the 50 from the get go.

Pogo to IRC boat. Against boats of equal length, you're not going to horizon the fleet round a W/L short haul course, where you're trying to point to a mark against race boats with a 7 degree sheeting angle (a Pogo CR is more like 20) and the beam doesn't help you. Even though cracking off 10-15 degrees from a pinch and in moderate to fresh winds you go disappearing at pace over the horizon trailing a stream of yahoos and fuck yeahs is awesome fun and induces huge grins amongst the crew, it doesn't necessarily equate to podium finishes in your local IRC series. A Pogo CR offshore however in a blow against a fleet? I wouldn't be on anything else, you'll get there at the pointy end of the fleet, just dry, relaxed and smiling for a change ;).

Hope this helps!

SB

 

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Does the 50 have a seat in the middle of the cockpit to take a rest on during the long walk across the boat during each tack?

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29 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Does the 50 have a seat in the middle of the cockpit to take a rest on during the long walk across the boat during each tack?

LB

I understand that a travelator across the cockpit is one of the options in the build of the 50. So no walking for you across the cockpit each tack.

 

I also understand that a stairlift to get from the deck into the cabin is possible as well. 

 

Its as they say “Miracles just cost more and the impossible just takes a little longer”

 

pulpit

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Hey Shaggy not too many posts lately!;)  Been to Greece for a 5 day single handed training on a 12.50 with a very experienced skipper with racing background - great experience!  Done my first overnight 160nm in one go, lots of great sailing instruction and getting to know Pogo.  I am sold on the tiller - thought I would not like it (just like your corporate guests I guess) but I find it intuitive after a while, actually more so than a wheel when reversing, more responsve and precise, less complicated gear,  plus you can use your legs and keep two sheets in your hands when tacking which is kinda hard with a wheel...  Don Quichotte has first rate sails (NZ produced actually) - I have never been able to get the tell tales lined up quite like that before.  But the boat - the massive sail area,  the stability - we had spinnaker up in 30kn and it felt completely OK - that is until I didnt see a gust coming and stressed my skipper friend a bit;). You can tell Pogo Structures just focus on sailing sailing and sailing and nothing else - not selling on the furniture looks, no two heads no other nonsense but pure sailing and performance.  Superb boat!  The only thing I would change would be an electric winch for the main and some sort of a plotter solution - the owner is fine with just an iPad which is cool but would like maybe a bracket or something next to the NKE - what do you use btw? - sorry if I missed it...

Keep enjoying Fusion - I  re-read parts of your blog about your spec decisions now that I could fully visualise what you are talking about;-)  

Best - 

Alex

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On 6/20/2018 at 12:31 PM, Kapt'n Kirk said:

Shaggy, or anyone on this thread. Is there a consensus as to the differences in performance, build quality, seaworthiness between the 12.50 and the Pogo 50. If you were to do extended cruising with the odd long distance race thrown in what would be your choice. Lets assume you can afford either boat but could live aboard either as well. I think I'm trying to understand is, for the extra length and room below do you give away race performance. The results for the 12.50 are becoming more and more encouraging well I have not seen a 50' record any finishes of note. 

Get the 50! I know someone who could help manage the project for you. 

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4 hours ago, cafesitter said:

Hey Shaggy not too many posts lately!;)  Been to Greece for a 5 day single handed training on a 12.50 with a very experienced skipper with racing background - great experience!  Done my first overnight 160nm in one go, lots of great sailing instruction and getting to know Pogo.  I am sold on the tiller - thought I would not like it (just like your corporate guests I guess) but I find it intuitive after a while, actually more so than a wheel when reversing, more responsve and precise, less complicated gear,  plus you can use your legs and keep two sheets in your hands when tacking which is kinda hard with a wheel...  Don Quichotte has first rate sails (NZ produced actually) - I have never been able to get the tell tales lined up quite like that before.  But the boat - the massive sail area,  the stability - we had spinnaker up in 30kn and it felt completely OK - that is until I didnt see a gust coming and stressed my skipper friend a bit;). You can tell Pogo Structures just focus on sailing sailing and sailing and nothing else - not selling on the furniture looks, no two heads no other nonsense but pure sailing and performance.  Superb boat!  The only thing I would change would be an electric winch for the main and some sort of a plotter solution - the owner is fine with just an iPad which is cool but would like maybe a bracket or something next to the NKE - what do you use btw? - sorry if I missed it...

Keep enjoying Fusion - I  re-read parts of your blog about your spec decisions now that I could fully visualise what you are talking about;-)  

Best -  

Alex

G'day Alex,

Glad to hear you enjoyed it mate, I'd love to charter a 12.50 over there for a race , so good to know about Fast Sailing being into quality sails. And yes, I girled out and went electric for the main halyard winch. It's excellent when cruising with the wife and kids, one of the girls pushes the button whilst I steer and just hold the eased mainsheet to flop the boom back and forth to get the sail past the lazyjacks. Electric winches do make a semi-hard job quick and easy.

OK, application wise- I'm using a Windows 10 PC at the nav station running Adrena First Offshore with Optima.I have an IPad running Splashtop for remote desktop of Adrena but to be honest I tend to use ISailor on the IPad more than remote desktop. ISailor costs a bit for all the licenses, ie: unlock the NMEA interface etc, but it's good and well suited for a touch screen interface. For both applications all the NKE data is interfaced, just hardwired to the PC, and wireless to the IPad. 

For the mount I use Armor X, which I really like, waterproof , tough rubber corners and the screen is useable when its wet. Nice hand/arm strap too. The mount is cool, solid and quick release but it doesn't really get mounted, it tends to live in a sheet pocket in the cockpit. The battery life on an IPad Pro whilst it's good, it still sucks for long races, it almost needs a charger at all times which I still haven't worked out yet.   

armorx1.thumb.jpg.f546e09cba6729e5691065ae919ed322.jpg

I'm a fan of tillers, so agree with your comments. I reckon it would be excellent on the 12.50. The wheels aren't a bad choice for this boat though, you still get that go-kart like feel with the wheels when you're punting hard downwind, but I think I'll always prefer a tiller for the feedback. One thing I have grown to love with the wheels, the helm position is awesome for the view. You're high, dry and outboard, you can see the whole boat as well as the bow. The windward helm view is shit for tight port/starboard crosses though, you definitely need to be on the lee helm position for them! 

Congrats on your first overnighter too,  it''s a great time to sail. 

Cheers,

SB 

 

 

 

 

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Besides having an unlimited budget- an elect winch would be one of the options I’d spec up for a new build. Would make the 2:1 main haly sooooo much easier...

quick question SB- how are you finding Splashtop?  I bought it from what I read online, but after working flawlessly across Biscay, it seems to crash or disconnect after half hour or so... and then work fine other times...Any tips or ideas?  Not too keen on an update with my PC’s specs (EN patch or upgrade ) and the FR only language make things even harder...W7 pro, early gen iPad... does my head in at times!

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18 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

G'day Alex,

Glad to hear you enjoyed it mate, I'd love to charter a 12.50 over there for a race , so good to know about Fast Sailing being into quality sails. And yes, I girled out and went electric for the main halyard winch. It's excellent when cruising with the wife and kids, one of the girls pushes the button whilst I steer and just hold the eased mainsheet to flop the boom back and forth to get the sail past the lazyjacks. Electric winches do make a semi-hard job quick and easy.

OK, application wise- I'm using a Windows 10 PC at the nav station running Adrena First Offshore with Optima.I have an IPad running Splashtop for remote desktop of Adrena but to be honest I tend to use ISailor on the IPad more than remote desktop. ISailor costs a bit for all the licenses, ie: unlock the NMEA interface etc, but it's good and well suited for a touch screen interface. For both applications all the NKE data is interfaced, just hardwired to the PC, and wireless to the IPad. 

For the mount I use Armor X, which I really like, waterproof , tough rubber corners and the screen is useable when its wet. Nice hand/arm strap too. The mount is cool, solid and quick release but it doesn't really get mounted, it tends to live in a sheet pocket in the cockpit. The battery life on an IPad Pro whilst it's good, it still sucks for long races, it almost needs a charger at all times which I still haven't worked out yet.   

armorx1.thumb.jpg.f546e09cba6729e5691065ae919ed322.jpg

I'm a fan of tillers, so agree with your comments. I reckon it would be excellent on the 12.50. The wheels aren't a bad choice for this boat though, you still get that go-kart like feel with the wheels when you're punting hard downwind, but I think I'll always prefer a tiller for the feedback. One thing I have grown to love with the wheels, the helm position is awesome for the view. You're high, dry and outboard, you can see the whole boat as well as the bow. The windward helm view is shit for tight port/starboard crosses though, you definitely need to be on the lee helm position for them! 

Congrats on your first overnighter too,  it''s a great time to sail. 

Cheers,

SB 

 

Thanks for sharing your set up I have to research it - on the Hanse I normally charter for family trips there is integrated B&G so never  thought about this properly...  (confusing interface though on these B&G things all other options exhausted I will have to read the manual:)   

The bracket/holder seems pretty robust, that could work I will have to get a smaller size iPad first have the big 12.9 for work and bought a small one for kids, wanted to save €100 and got wifi only to realise later they only put the GPS chip on the LTE version can you believe...

On charging  was actually thinking you would need to bring one of those car adapter thingies out to be able to plug the iPad would have to have some good marine grade insulation dont know if there is a thing like that that can be OK with salty water splashing over it...  

For daytime family island hopping the simple folding solar works quite well on a sunny place can charge two phones at the same time or my big iPad Pro...

IMG_6272.thumb.jpg.248656af61b2541bf254a6abd87f286a.jpg

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9 hours ago, plugger said:

Besides having an unlimited budget- an elect winch would be one of the options I’d spec up for a new build. Would make the 2:1 main haly sooooo much easier...

quick question SB- how are you finding Splashtop?  I bought it from what I read online, but after working flawlessly across Biscay, it seems to crash or disconnect after half hour or so... and then work fine other times...Any tips or ideas?  Not too keen on an update with my PC’s specs (EN patch or upgrade ) and the FR only language make things even harder...W7 pro, early gen iPad... does my head in at times!

G'day Plugger,

Splashtop....yeah, I'd like to say I had flawless success, but I found the same thing as you. Not sure about your Win 7  mate, but my intermittent performance started when I let Windows do an upgrade to Win 10, and then I started getting dropouts and failures to reconnect. 

One of the main issues I have with Splashtop is the need to make your PC wireless NIC act like a wireless Access Point, which is abnormal. Win 10 does some funky shit to your wireless network interface card, so I'm blaming the issues on Win 10 more than Splashtop. I could put another WaP on the network to fix this, but fuck that, that would mean two wireless access points, one Ethernet to the PC for Splashtop, and one existing from the NKE. Too much, I don't like adding electronics unless it is giving me something I need and don't have. 

As the NKE network has its own wireless access point, having the PC NIC act as one as well will give you interference, and at 2.4ghz you get a lot of power bleed over the spectrum so not good. Swapping the source on the IPad from its Remote Desktop mode (PC) to the NKE data (NKE WaP) was more dicking around, so in the end I tend to leave the NKE as the source , and use ISailor. 

Splashtop is probably worth persevering with, but my Adrena maps are pretty cluttered, and  I found it not as good for touch screen interfaces as a dedicated IPad app like ISailor or Navionics.

Cheers!

SB

 

   

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On 6/20/2018 at 10:31 PM, Kapt'n Kirk said:

Shaggy, or anyone on this thread. Is there a consensus as to the differences in performance, build quality, seaworthiness between the 12.50 and the Pogo 50. If you were to do extended cruising with the odd long distance race thrown in what would be your choice. Lets assume you can afford either boat but could live aboard either as well. I think I'm trying to understand is, for the extra length and room below do you give away race performance. The results for the 12.50 are becoming more and more encouraging well I have not seen a 50' record any finishes of note. 

Kapt'n Kirk,

having raced and cruised on both Pogo12.50 and Pogo50, the general comment regarding performance is that you get similar max boat speeds but the Pogo50 achieves higher averages thanks to its longer hull length, inertia and higher righting moment. As for racing results, we did 2 races so far on our Pogo50: Hydra Race 2017 (winner on handicap ORC Club), and the Rolex Middle Sea Race 2017 (3rd on handicap ORC2), one of the toughest editions of this race with very strong headwinds and high seas for ~200nm . Most importantly, we were among the 35 out of 105 boats that managed to finish the race and among the very few ones without any damages.  This says a lot about how strong the pogo50s are built...Also Pogo50 hull #1 has achieved 2nd in real time in racing division of ARC 2012 (5th on corrected).   Briefly, if money is not an issue, Pogo50 is the boat to have for what you want to do.  

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On 9/7/2018 at 4:56 PM, meaftias said:

Kapt'n Kirk,

having raced and cruised on both Pogo12.50 and Pogo50, the general comment regarding performance is that you get similar max boat speeds but the Pogo50 achieves higher averages thanks to its longer hull length, inertia and higher righting moment. As for racing results, we did 2 races so far on our Pogo50: Hydra Race 2017 (winner on handicap ORC Club), and the Rolex Middle Sea Race 2017 (3rd on handicap ORC2), one of the toughest editions of this race with very strong headwinds and high seas for ~200nm . Most importantly, we were among the 35 out of 105 boats that managed to finish the race and among the very few ones without any damages.  This says a lot about how strong the pogo50s are built...Also Pogo50 hull #1 has achieved 2nd in real time in racing division of ARC 2012 (5th on corrected).   Briefly, if money is not an issue, Pogo50 is the boat to have for what you want to do.  

G'day Meaftias,

Thanks, good to know, the 50' looks like a cool ride, I'm jealous! What's your normal crew for offshore? How is she short handed? The 40 doesn't feel that big until you're by yourself, the 50 looks enormous by comparison!

Cheers,

SB
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, shaggybaxter said:

G'day Meaftias,

Thanks, good to know, the 50' looks like a cool ride, I'm jealous! What's your normal crew for offshore? How is she short handed? The 40 doesn't feel that big until you're by yourself, the 50 looks enormous by comparison!

Cheers,

SB
 

 

 

Felt big enough yesterday! The child bride has been complaining about her shoulder after all that winching you made her do. Seriously great day mate thanks.

and again, sorry about the start...

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S'alright mate, it was good to practice multiple starts for when we have ...err...multiple start lines. The child bride...now she is welcome anytime, she is a real gem that one.

I need to get out offshore and check instrument cal.  Monday is looking perfect, anyone wanna come for a three sail reach to Mooloolaba and back? 

16113116_1392683480805977_5389022958468466566_o.thumb.jpg.8f3701083ada2820c9673422533e6ee8.jpg

 

 

  

 

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On 6/1/2018 at 6:25 AM, Teener said:

 

Nice video good sound good vibes :) French Vibes !!!

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