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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
JeronimoII

VOR 2017-18

2,134 posts in this topic

 

Fuck it is now hiding logos in the boat shed until the director opens the doors shit and Facefuck marketing strategies.

 

Sending top line people (who unfortunately need the bucks) on a circuitious RTW route on 65' lipstick on pigs is making my balls drop even further.. VG guys must be pissing themselves laughing in terms of competing sponsor/ competing event tension...there isn't any.

 

God knows how experienced people feel deep down about prostituting their craft to this Lego Land Race. There isn't an ounce of aura left anymore for them or anyone. Just a sprinkling of a few bucks around the table. That's sad.

 

Fuck I hope Volvo Inc have a grande plan for the next one or if not they just fuck off. Don't worry someone else with high altitude balls will step in, just as the beer/Whitbread boys passed the batton.

+1

Only interest now is to see who is desperate enough to join a crew for this one. It's a big commitment time-wise which cuts a sailor out of circulation and other opportunities for quite a long time. Is it worth it career-wise?

Volvo (the company) must sure be embarrassed and worried by now. I guess it will cost them and arm and a leg to pull the plug and an arm and a leg to let the race go ahead. Rock and a hard place?

 

 

I don't think a lot of people are as you say desperate. I think most racers would love an opportunity to be paid to go around the world.

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Fuck it is now hiding logos in the boat shed until the director opens the doors shit and Facefuck marketing strategies.

 

Sending top line people (who unfortunately need the bucks) on a circuitious RTW route on 65' lipstick on pigs is making my balls drop even further.. VG guys must be pissing themselves laughing in terms of competing sponsor/ competing event tension...there isn't any.

 

God knows how experienced people feel deep down about prostituting their craft to this Lego Land Race. There isn't an ounce of aura left anymore for them or anyone. Just a sprinkling of a few bucks around the table. That's sad.

 

Fuck I hope Volvo Inc have a grande plan for the next one or if not they just fuck off. Don't worry someone else with high altitude balls will step in, just as the beer/Whitbread boys passed the batton.

+1

Only interest now is to see who is desperate enough to join a crew for this one. It's a big commitment time-wise which cuts a sailor out of circulation and other opportunities for quite a long time. Is it worth it career-wise?

Volvo (the company) must sure be embarrassed and worried by now. I guess it will cost them and arm and a leg to pull the plug and an arm and a leg to let the race go ahead. Rock and a hard place?

 

 

I don't think a lot of people are as you say desperate. I think most racers would love an opportunity to be paid to go around the world.

 

Not only that, but you're exponentially more in demand once you're done with a volvo. Plus you can demand a higher daily rate.

 

That's part of the reason you see the Volvo as such a closed off ecosystem of sailors. There are serious financial and economic incentives to be a recurring character in the race, and are the make/break of a lot of guys big boat sailing careers.

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Fuck it is now hiding logos in the boat shed until the director opens the doors shit and Facefuck marketing strategies.

 

Sending top line people (who unfortunately need the bucks) on a circuitious RTW route on 65' lipstick on pigs is making my balls drop even further.. VG guys must be pissing themselves laughing in terms of competing sponsor/ competing event tension...there isn't any.

 

God knows how experienced people feel deep down about prostituting their craft to this Lego Land Race. There isn't an ounce of aura left anymore for them or anyone. Just a sprinkling of a few bucks around the table. That's sad.

 

Fuck I hope Volvo Inc have a grande plan for the next one or if not they just fuck off. Don't worry someone else with high altitude balls will step in, just as the beer/Whitbread boys passed the batton.

+1

Only interest now is to see who is desperate enough to join a crew for this one. It's a big commitment time-wise which cuts a sailor out of circulation and other opportunities for quite a long time. Is it worth it career-wise?

Volvo (the company) must sure be embarrassed and worried by now. I guess it will cost them and arm and a leg to pull the plug and an arm and a leg to let the race go ahead. Rock and a hard place?

 

 

I don't think a lot of people are as you say desperate. I think most racers would love an opportunity to be paid to go around the world.

 

Not only that, but you're exponentially more in demand once you're done with a volvo. Plus you can demand a higher daily rate.

 

That's part of the reason you see the Volvo as such a closed off ecosystem of sailors. There are serious financial and economic incentives to be a recurring character in the race, and are the make/break of a lot of guys big boat sailing careers.

 

Exactly, and if anyone at Volvo is looking. My job ends June 30th and I would love something much better than my cubicle lol.

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There's also the fact that a certain percentage of the guys who do it fall in love with the race, and they will continue to come back until their wives or their bodies have had enough.

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Brad has got a bigger melon though

also looks like he's been eating lots of doughnuts over the winter.

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It's official. Team Vesta's/eleven hours racing announces 2017/18 campaign.
Led by Charlie Enright and Mark Towill from former team Alvimedica.
At least team Vestas won't go under from a lack of experience.

Their sustainability message is:
The many ways pollution and plastic debris are destroying ocean life and threatening all of us. Our partnership with Vestas is about inspiring positive change in the way we think about energy and the natural resources of the planet.”
http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9456_Vestas-11th-Hour-Racing-launch-campaign-with-sustainability-message.html

m100662_crop169014_1024x576_proportional

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It's official. Team Vesta's/eleven hours racing announces 2017/18 campaign.

 

 

 

Are the news 24 hours delayed in your country, or is it just you?

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+1

 

Only interest now is to see who is desperate enough to join a crew for this one. It's a big commitment time-wise which cuts a sailor out of circulation and other opportunities for quite a long time. Is it worth it career-wise?

 

 

 

I often wonder if it's a bliss or a pain to be completely detached from the real world.

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It's official. Team Vesta's/eleven hours racing announces 2017/18 campaign.

 

 

 

Are the news 24 hours delayed in your country, or is it just you?

 

This made my morning lol.

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So which team BLAK? Clean reckons they are good for sailing? Blue is their colour - any guesses anyone? :-)

 

SS

Don't know really...saw it on The Boatyard FB page. The light blue bowsprit could indicate that it was Vestas (don't know which boat number she has) so it is possible that they're reusing the boat with a different colour scheme? The blue is similar to their logo's and the orange was used on the Sailrockets.

 

And btw I am actually a noob. That was my first post, nothing suspicous going on lol.

 

Link to The Boatyard page

 

 

AkzoNobel

I asked them what paint they were using on the hull a couple months ago due to that exact blue.

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Ummm...TPG that is the orange/blue of Eleventh Hour and Vestas. Orange/royal of 11H with a fade to the lighter blue of Vestas.

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Ummm...TPG that is the orange/blue of Eleventh Hour and Vestas. Orange/royal of 11H with a fade to the lighter blue of Vestas.

 

I saw the wrong bow then. Whoops

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So are Vestas sailing their reefed boat back round or the old Alvimedica? I've gotta think the reefed boat has a hurried refit (void at this point but still) and weighs more than the other boats in the fleet. What does Charlie prefer??

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It's official. Team Vesta's/eleven hours racing announces 2017/18 campaign.

 

 

Are the news 24 hours delayed in your country, or is it just you?

His whole life is delayed, be nice, he can't help it. :)

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So are Vestas sailing their reefed boat back round or the old Alvimedica? I've gotta think the reefed boat has a hurried refit (void at this point but still) and weighs more than the other boats in the fleet. What does Charlie prefer??

 

The refit process is identical for each boat, and part of it ensures that the boats weigh exactly the same. Indeed the claim is that the weights are closer than when first built.

 

The old Vestas boat is much closer to being a new boat with a doner deck than a repaired boat. New hull, keel , mast. But all the fittings are original. That isn't a small amount of money. If you believe that a new boat affords some advantage, you would want to take the old Vestas boat.

 

Vestas (the company) made a lot about the desire and need to rebuild and continue the race. It would be very hard to imagine they would walk away from the boat now. Using it is part of the ethos of continuing in the race. Charlie is an employee, it isn't up to him to decide he wants the boat he sailed on last time.

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So are Vestas sailing their reefed boat back round or the old Alvimedica? I've gotta think the reefed boat has a hurried refit (void at this point but still) and weighs more than the other boats in the fleet. What does Charlie prefer??

I thought the training boat Akzonobel is using is the old Vestas copy/paste job. Can't be bothered to look up if it is true or not.

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So are Vestas sailing their reefed boat back round or the old Alvimedica? I've gotta think the reefed boat has a hurried refit (void at this point but still) and weighs more than the other boats in the fleet. What does Charlie prefer??

 

The refit process is identical for each boat, and part of it ensures that the boats weigh exactly the same. Indeed the claim is that the weights are closer than when first built.

 

The old Vestas boat is much closer to being a new boat with a doner deck than a repaired boat. New hull, keel , mast. But all the fittings are original. That isn't a small amount of money. If you believe that a new boat affords some advantage, you would want to take the old Vestas boat.

 

Vestas (the company) made a lot about the desire and need to rebuild and continue the race. It would be very hard to imagine they would walk away from the boat now. Using it is part of the ethos of continuing in the race. Charlie is an employee, it isn't up to him to decide he wants the boat he sailed on last time.

Yeah, I think so too. IMHO, the reefed Vestas boat is the newer of the old boats.

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With the amount of time, money and especially expertise the VOR has invested in the Boatyard I seriously doubt if any boat in the fleet would not conform to the strict one design concept.

 

I also know that the boats are accurately weighed to ensure their weight (I understand the 1st boat DFRT is being used as the bench mark) and any differences will be made up with corrector weights.

 

First boat out. last boat out or the new boat? In theory - and most likely in practice - having the new boat will only be a psychological advantage and then only in the minds of the actual team.

 

SS.

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With the amount of time, money and especially expertise the VOR has invested in the Boatyard I seriously doubt if any boat in the fleet would not conform to the strict one design concept.

 

I also know that the boats are accurately weighed to ensure their weight (I understand the 1st boat DFRT is being used as the bench mark) and any differences will be made up with corrector weights.

 

First boat out. last boat out or the new boat? In theory - and most likely in practice - having the new boat will only be a psychological advantage and then only in the minds of the actual team.

 

SS.

or to quote Tienpont (from Scuttlebutt),

“Our goal is to be the best prepared team on the start line in Alicante, so, our first choice was always to have a new boat built.

“If you have that option, it’s a no-brainer decision to make when you are racing around the world.”

..... only for a psychological advantage, of course

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My guess is ..Tienpont thought he married a virgin...so he is having another go now using a large piece of unfrequented carbon.

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I just saw a news release that the Boatyard has finished up on boat 8 adn it is now getting hauled to the next place for fitting out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqiZsKCsKQ&feature=push-u&attr_tag=Zd3Q6VzOZn_2zdcL-6

They seem to be the Netherlands version of Dupont

 

If my eyes weren't dreaming, it looks like a new sponsor, Akozo Nobel. Is that an actual sponsor of the boat? It has a #teamazokobel hashtag and they mentioned is is going to get painted and measured.

Or is that just a way to advertise for a paint company. They end with a "More to come..." moment.

the 8th boat would seem to indicate that we have 8 boats racing, but team sponsors are holding the cards real close to the chest. 8 would be very cool.

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I just saw a news release that the Boatyard has finished up on boat 8 adn it is now getting hauled to the next place for fitting out.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqiZsKCsKQ&feature=push-u&attr_tag=Zd3Q6VzOZn_2zdcL-6

They seem to be the Netherlands version of Dupont

 

If my eyes weren't dreaming, it looks like a new sponsor, Akozo Nobel. Is that an actual sponsor of the boat? It has a #teamazokobel hashtag and they mentioned is is going to get painted and measured.

 

Or is that just a way to advertise for a paint company. They end with a "More to come..." moment.

the 8th boat would seem to indicate that we have 8 boats racing, but team sponsors are holding the cards real close to the chest. 8 would be very cool.

 

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/presszone/en/3531_Volvo-Ocean-Race-announces-Team-AkzoNobel-as-first-entry-of-2017-18-edition.html

 

Been news since last July mate.

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What is cool in a geeky way is that the Nobel in Akozo Nobel, is a certain Alfred Nobel. He of the Nobel Prize.

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I just saw a news release that the Boatyard has finished up on boat 8 adn it is now getting hauled to the next place for fitting out.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqiZsKCsKQ&feature=push-u&attr_tag=Zd3Q6VzOZn_2zdcL-6

They seem to be the Netherlands version of Dupont

 

If my eyes weren't dreaming, it looks like a new sponsor, Akozo Nobel. Is that an actual sponsor of the boat? It has a #teamazokobel hashtag and they mentioned is is going to get painted and measured.

 

Or is that just a way to advertise for a paint company. They end with a "More to come..." moment.

the 8th boat would seem to indicate that we have 8 boats racing, but team sponsors are holding the cards real close to the chest. 8 would be very cool.

 

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/presszone/en/3531_Volvo-Ocean-Race-announces-Team-AkzoNobel-as-first-entry-of-2017-18-edition.html

 

Been news since last July mate.

 

Well blow me down...was that in one of the lists of entries posted here as speculation? They got a crew? Why is the 8th boat for the first sponsor and if that is the case, what is the current announced list of teams...

 

DF

Vesta

Mapfre

AN

 

guesses on who's next?

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Someone is damn far out of the loop. Akozo Nobel are getting a brand new build, hence boat #8.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

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I just saw a news release that the Boatyard has finished up on boat 8 adn it is now getting hauled to the next place for fitting out.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqiZsKCsKQ&feature=push-u&attr_tag=Zd3Q6VzOZn_2zdcL-6

They seem to be the Netherlands version of Dupont

 

If my eyes weren't dreaming, it looks like a new sponsor, Akozo Nobel. Is that an actual sponsor of the boat? It has a #teamazokobel hashtag and they mentioned is is going to get painted and measured.

 

Or is that just a way to advertise for a paint company. They end with a "More to come..." moment.

the 8th boat would seem to indicate that we have 8 boats racing, but team sponsors are holding the cards real close to the chest. 8 would be very cool.

 

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/presszone/en/3531_Volvo-Ocean-Race-announces-Team-AkzoNobel-as-first-entry-of-2017-18-edition.html

 

Been news since last July mate.

 

Well blow me down...was that in one of the lists of entries posted here as speculation? They got a crew? Why is the 8th boat for the first sponsor and if that is the case, what is the current announced list of teams...

 

DF

Vesta

Mapfre

AN

 

guesses on who's next?

 

German Ocean Racing Team :) (Alert: Website under construction)

 

http://germanoceanracingteam.com/

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a German team, that would be a huge surprise.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

We're still waiting for your solution to solving all the problems with the Volvo race.

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There was a yellow and black boat being painted up in the boatyard in a recent post.

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a German team, that would be a huge surprise.

Surprise...yes. Huge Surprise....no.

 

After all Germany has won the VOR once in 2001/2002 with the Illbruck Challenge so there is that.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

We're still waiting for your solution to solving all the problems with the Volvo race.

Already said it Mad..someone needs to step into Volvo's shoes to carry it forward. A big ask yes ...but what is the risk of them folding up their tent after this one? Quite high I suspect.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

We're still waiting for your solution to solving all the problems with the Volvo race.

Already said it Mad..someone needs to step into Volvo's shoes to carry it forward. A big ask yes ...but what is the risk of them folding up their tent after this one? Quite high I suspect.

 

But carry it forward in what way?

 

Change the course, the boats, the crew requirements?

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a German team, that would be a huge surprise.

Surprise...yes. Huge Surprise....no.

 

After all Germany has won the VOR once in 2001/2002 with the Illbruck Challenge so there is that.

 

 

 

Illbruck doesn't count. Last millionaire involved with the race before the corporate sponsors (and huge budgets) arrived. Germany is well presented in sailing (SAP, Hugo Boss, Mercedes, BMW to name a few), but without a stopover and very limited sailing interest in media, I have always considered a VOR campaign a hugely complex sell in Germany.

 

If this guys happen, maybe they come with their Austrian neighbours Red Bull. RB is increasingly portraying VOR footage on their media channels.

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a German team, that would be a huge surprise.

Surprise...yes. Huge Surprise....no.

 

After all Germany has won the VOR once in 2001/2002 with the Illbruck Challenge so there is that.

 

 

 

Illbruck doesn't count. Last millionaire involved with the race before the corporate sponsors (and huge budgets) arrived. Germany is well presented in sailing (SAP, Hugo Boss, Mercedes, BMW to name a few), but without a stopover and very limited sailing interest in media, I have always considered a VOR campaign a hugely complex sell in Germany.

 

If this guys happen, maybe they come with their Austrian neighbours Red Bull. RB is increasingly portraying VOR footage on their media channels.

 

I don't think it will be Red Bull. Some Austrian Offshore Sailors might be on the Team though. My money is on AUDI.

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There was a yellow and black boat being painted up in the boatyard in a recent post.

Didn't Team Brunel have a Yellow/Black Boat in the 14/15 Race?

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AUDI in the VOLVO Ocean Race?!? No way. Paid advertisement in a competitor's platform. An impossible sell.

 

The VOR rules allow automotive companies to sponsor teams indeed, but either you are part of Volvo Group (i.e. Dongfeng), or it makes no sense.

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AUDI in the VOLVO Ocean Race?!? No way. Paid advertisement in a competitor's platform. An impossible sell.

 

The VOR rules allow automotive companies to sponsor teams indeed, but either you are part of Volvo Group (i.e. Dongfeng), or it makes no sense.

No way it will be Red Bull. They have already been involved in the Red Bull Youth America's Cup.

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There was a yellow and black boat being painted up in the boatyard in a recent post.

Didn't Team Brunel have a Yellow/Black Boat in the 14/15 Race?

 

 

yes

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Mapfre has dropped their rig in testing, bummer. I can't remember off hand, but how many spare tubes did Bicey say they keep? I guess this is where the boatyard concept comes in real handy. What's the rule on sails if they've trashed a couple dropping the rig? Would they be testing with old sails from the last race?

 

From their website

At 17:15hrs local time this Thursday afternoon while the team was sailing about seven nautical miles SW of the island of Ons (Pontevedra) near their home base in around 25 knots of wind and four meter high waves the VO65 MAPFRE’s mast broke below the first spreader.

There was a crash and then the rig started to fall to starboard,” reported Pablo Arrarte, MAPFRE’s watch captain who was sailing as skipper of the boat during this period of testing. “We were sailing on quite a comfortable reach with waves also from the same direction and so at the moment we do not know why it has broken. We will have to analyse the data and the damaged parts in order to draw a conclusion.

The crew have not suffered any injuries and after fully checking for any collateral damage to other parts of the boat it took around two hours of intense work to secure the boat and recover the broken parts of the mast and the sails.

The team’s emergency protocol was activated immediately and for safety reasons, Salvamento Marítimo [Maritime Rescue] was notified. They monitored the Spanish VO65 and when the crew had secured the boat the emergency services were duly informed that the crew were heading back to Sanxenxo under their own means.

We will keep you posted!

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Mapfre has dropped their rig in testing, bummer. I can't remember off hand, but how many spare tubes did Bicey say they keep? I guess this is where the boatyard concept comes in real handy. What's the rule on sails if they've trashed a couple dropping the rig? Would they be testing with old sails from the last race?

 

From their website

At 17:15hrs local time this Thursday afternoon while the team was sailing about seven nautical miles SW of the island of Ons (Pontevedra) near their home base in around 25 knots of wind and four meter high waves the VO65 MAPFRE’s mast broke below the first spreader.

There was a crash and then the rig started to fall to starboard,” reported Pablo Arrarte, MAPFRE’s watch captain who was sailing as skipper of the boat during this period of testing. “We were sailing on quite a comfortable reach with waves also from the same direction and so at the moment we do not know why it has broken. We will have to analyse the data and the damaged parts in order to draw a conclusion.

The crew have not suffered any injuries and after fully checking for any collateral damage to other parts of the boat it took around two hours of intense work to secure the boat and recover the broken parts of the mast and the sails.

The team’s emergency protocol was activated immediately and for safety reasons, Salvamento Marítimo [Maritime Rescue] was notified. They monitored the Spanish VO65 and when the crew had secured the boat the emergency services were duly informed that the crew were heading back to Sanxenxo under their own means.

We will keep you posted!

 

fuck me, 4m seas and 25 knots especially off the wind is hardly considered extreme for these boats. wonder what gave way?

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Are we hearing no news because there are some amazingly well kept secrets out there? or are we hearing no news because there is no news?

Will Volvo pull the plug soon?

Just like you had the story but 'needed to shore it up' on the vestas announcement. I know you knew all but needed to confirm, yet you broke no news. Maybe sailing and sailing media is avoiding you and this circus, big guy. The 'reporter' known as Clean is included in this.

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Sorry to hear about Xabi and the boys problems with the rig. Better though that it happened on a training sail than at the beginning of Leg 1.

 

Probably, like so many rig failures before it that it will come down to a 10 bucks fitting.

 

Somebody will be burning the late night oil in Auckland soon no doubt.

 

SS

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Someone will sure be on a plane to look at the aftermath

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Somebody will be burning the late night oil in Auckland soon no doubt.

Not wrong. This is why you do shakedowns. But worrying and embarrassing. Given the over the top one design manufacture, hard to imagine that there isn't a good chance the flaw is in every boat.

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Further to my post that TeamThink own the germanoceanracing.com site, I notice that they list Sperry Marine as a past client. A bit tenuous a link, but Sperry isn't an unreasonable sponsor.

 

One suspects that TeamThink are somewhere in the middle of an effort to pull together the various strings to build a team. Pulling in contacts via old clients is a good start.

 

Their Facebook page lists Weert Kramer and Oliver Peter.

 

Weert Kramer is TeamThink, and gets search hits including pics of him at the wheel of a big sailing boats. One suspects he intends sailing the race.

Oliver Peter's Linkedin page includes: Senior Adviser at MCF Corporate Finance, Partner at German Ocean Racing Team

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vow. dropping the rig in training must be a VOR first. If the boats are truly one design, all other teams must be worried. Nice refit indeed. Ha.

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forgot how to embed the video. umm.

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Come on folks! These Vo 65s are super tough unbreakable boats with super tough unbreakable rigs, so it has to be down to operator error. (DF "pushed too hard" after all in the last race!). And isn't there a rule that for each team there is a strictly limited set of sails which can be used both for training and the race? So if you are careless enough to badly damage a sail you just have to fix it yourself! (Oops, sorry, forgot that rule only gets applied if its an all-girl boat). Will be interesting to see how this one pans out.
(Joking of course!)

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That sucks...

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Come on folks! These Vo 65s are super tough unbreakable boats with super tough unbreakable rigs, so it has to be down to operator error. [CUT]

 

Or a production problem.

Anyone knows if the mast was a new one or a refurbished one?

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Does it matter? It'll be crickets & spin from here on in...

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Before there is too much more wailing, gnashing of teeth, and the obligatory VOR is the Suxz, perhaps we wait to see what was the cause. Clearly they are not repairing that main so an exception certainly is a given since VOR needs the competition.

Bummer day for sure.

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Bummer about Mapfre, but going back to Red Bull, although it is a company registered in Austria, according to news reports, a Thai national Chaleo Yoovidya was a co-founder, and his reported heir, grandson Vorayuth Yoovidya apparently has both money to burn and a lot of domestic clout. Could this be a connection to a previously indicated S.E. Asian team?

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Mapfre broke their mast during offshore training near their training base Sanxenxo while reaching in 25 kts and 4 meter waves. No injuries luckily. The rig and mainsail have been recovered in a 2 hours effort. The mast broke just below the first spreaders. The mast clocked 1 RTW in 2014/15.

 

I'm wondering how in these not so rough conditions the rig could fail. And what the accident means for the rest of the fleet. Being one design and all that.

 

Source (in Dutch) https://www.clubracer.be/2017/4/1/video-mapfre-breekt-mast-tijdens-offhore-zeiltraining

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Who knows, the masts get out of the boat often, one mistake for instance from a forklift guy who walks away whistling is enough.

 

 

It seems unlikely its a design flaw, it has been around once before.

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It seems unlikely its a design flaw, it has been around once before.

 

It has however been fully refitted, and modified to some slightly new design spec. Given the history of mast losses in the VOR, a bad new fitting would be high on my list of suspects. Components where the metallurgy is not quite what it said on the tin seems to be a constant problem.

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It seems unlikely its a design flaw, it has been around once before.

 

It has however been fully refitted, and modified to some slightly new design spec. Given the history of mast losses in the VOR, a bad new fitting would be high on my list of suspects. Components where the metallurgy is not quite what it said on the tin seems to be a constant problem.

The mast and spreaders are fully carbon. Only metal bits would be the stays, and the main stays have a 26-ton minimum break load. When DFRT lost their mast in the previous edition, it was the top part above the highest spreaders. The stays were OK afaik. Does someone know if a too high permanent pressure on the stays, and especially the lower ones, can cause this breakage so low in the mast?

 

Source http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/boat/31_The-rigs.html

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The stays are carbon as well. The metal bits I was referring to would be any of the termination attachment components. Especially bits that actually bring load onto the mast tube. Stainless steel and titanium bits. Too easy for someone to get the alloy spec wrong, or worse, supply the wrong alloy through either incompetence or fraud, and suddenly your fitting goes bang.

 

Constant pressure is rarely your enemy. Fatigue is what kills most materials, so cyclic loads are the problem. Which is a bit of an issue on an ocean racing boat. And also why getting the right alloys is so important. It isn't that the fitting will simply break at a lower than expected load, but that they may be vastly more prone to fatigue, and thus fail unexpectedly at almost any load.

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The stays are carbon as well. The metal bits I was referring to would be any of the termination attachment components. Especially bits that actually bring load onto the mast tube. Stainless steel and titanium bits. Too easy for someone to get the alloy spec wrong, or worse, supply the wrong alloy through either incompetence or fraud, and suddenly your fitting goes bang.

 

Constant pressure is rarely your enemy. Fatigue is what kills most materials, so cyclic loads are the problem. Which is a bit of an issue on an ocean racing boat. And also why getting the right alloys is so important. It isn't that the fitting will simply break at a lower than expected load, but that they may be vastly more prone to fatigue, and thus fail unexpectedly at almost any load.

 

An expert!

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An expert!

 

Hardly. Engineering 101 plus reading the boat's specifications.

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I think it unwise to speculate in detail about the cause of failure, unless of course one has seen a video of the actual event and inspected all the damaged parts.

Maybe FV has had that priviledge?

There has been a lot of hype about the toughness of these boats and their rigs and one would reasonably expect that if the same boats which have already been RTW once are being offered to new crews as a "one design" they should at least be "equal in strength and performance to a new one". That would mean any fatigue sensitive parts which have used up any significant fraction of their fatigue life should have been replaced by the Boatyard and any loadbearing parts (including the spars themselves) and the complete assembled rig would have been proof load tested for all loading scenarios and certified as having a safe working load well above what can be experienced under sail in all conditions the boats are expected to withstand.

Proof load testing is not rocket science. It is what keeps such things as cranes, lifting gear etc. all relatively safe and reliable, and fatigue testing and non-destructive examination techniques and formalised quality management systems are all now well established enginering procedures and techniques.

Logically, if the design is "tough" that implies a big inherent safety factor. With properly working quality management systems and competent engineering knowledge, in my view the mast, if correctly used, should not have failed under normal sailing conditions, (or with this race slogan in mind, even under "Extreme Sailing" conditions!)

We now have two dis-mastings amongst 7 (?) masts which have on average, been RTW a little over once each. If operator error is not the answer statistically that wouldn't give me a lot of confidence in the design concept and/or the boatyard quality management systems.

Anyone know how the VOR 65 mast failure statistics compare with Imocas over the years, on a mileage per mast basis?

 

Whatever, I will be interested to know what went wrong: that is if the cause of the failure isn't kept secret!

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Clean will find out the secret !!!

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VOR65 rig development:
-Southern got the contract, build 8-10 rigs

-First rigs delivered before sail contract is signed and final sail configration is finalized. Also, if rumours are true maybe without full info about the boats

-SCA cracked mast around spreader root

-All rigs got additional carbon applied around spreader roots (spreader roots are metal by the way)

-Start of Volvo Race 2014-2015: teams mask off warning LEDs (for the loads) because it blinds drivers during the night shift

-DongFeng starts racing with MH0, Reefed main and hardly any/no checkstay to get more mastbend, more luff tension on MH0 but also more stress into the mast

-Auckland sees all rigs out and tested. Repairs to several tubes (visible for anyone in AKL). Docktalk that rigs might break in next leg because of people pushing the MH0/reefed main combo.

-DF breaks mast in leg to Brasil (exactly where you would expect for deck stepped mast that is over-bending)

 

-Batch of new rigs and rigging ordered for 2018-2019 race

-Refit rigs in transit to Lisbon

-First refit boats get relaunched with original rigs

-Mapfre suffers a breakage, no clear indications as to why/what/how. As always: "in these conditions, it shouldn't have..."

 

As been mentioned here, 8 out of 10 times, a (carbon) rig failure can be attributed to a metal interface (rigging tang, rigging end-fitting) rather than carbon. Luckily people are catching on and getting material certificates and testing of various parts as well as improved maintenance regimes are becoming more common.

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And regarding (possible) entries..:

-AkzoNobel going for new build from outset, got old vestas (and simple rebranding with only name) to do some training but more importantly find the rest of the cash. Currently no boat and some long delays on crew contracts with several people committed but waiting 4-6 weeks already on the actual contract. And let's not forget: new boat means they are one of the last to actual start making miles so even if they were first to announce, what will your advantage be?

-Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection). Now got some of the most experienced guys on board, got the shore side sorted and perhaps the fastest option with female input.

-Mapfre looks to be improved over previous attempt with a lot clearer direction in crew. As far as under-30s go and female there are some very fast and promising names on the list

-11th hour/Vestas clearly have the backing but what about the crew?

 

And then the scary part... where are entries 5-8? I know there is plenty of time left as the boats are not ready yet but would be nice to have some more rumours (outside of SA's forums).

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Patience Lostmydetailsagain

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Where the hell's Mapfre? I was just in their base in Sangenjo hoping to see the broken mast, but it wasn't there...

 

EDIT: I see they're going to Lisbon. I'm going to be there tomorrow too...

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Are you a stalker?

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unfortunately my april fool's story about a VOR team looking to take advantage of the male/female rules (by filling the female portion of the crew with 6 'humyns' with big muscles yet who 'identified' as female) didn't make it to press.

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^^^ Unfortunately is not the word you were looking for. Thankfully seems a better fit.

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Are you a stalker

 

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Not really, I distribute marine products in Portugal and tomorrow's the Lisbon Boat Show... But I admit I like lurking around hotties and these boat are. I also know a few of the guys onboard Mapfre so...

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Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection).

 

What's different about the hull-deck connection on Dongfeng/hull 1?

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Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection).

 

What's different about the hull-deck connection on Dongfeng/hull 1?

 

Not different, just not right the first attempt. So boats been cooked a few extra times which would result in a stiffer construction (yes I've tried it with carbon on a smaller scale). The gains are, of course far more important psychologically than measurable/physical gains (measurable difference in m experience is a sub-1% gain).

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Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection).

 

What's different about the hull-deck connection on Dongfeng/hull 1?

 

Not different, just not right the first attempt. So boats been cooked a few extra times which would result in a stiffer construction (yes I've tried it with carbon on a smaller scale). The gains are, of course far more important psychologically than measurable/physical gains (measurable difference in m experience is a sub-1% gain).

 

In the VOR, sailed one-design, a sub 1% advantage is still a killing race winner! not just a psychological advantage.

 

The VOR racetrack is 45000 miles next time. 1% of that is 450 miles, 9 legs, so a 1% difference in boat speed with nominally the same design and weather gives you quite a handy 50 mile lead on average for every leg.

 

Even a 0.1% difference still gives you a 5 mile winning lead.

 

If you are sailing one-design the boats and their sails need to be exactly the same, not just similar. The slightest difference has a massive effect on your chances and the longer the race the bigger the effect.

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There is only a multi in the announcement video.

From the Ac too.

 

 

 

Hm....

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Mod70s don't have a presence. They are just fluting around doing speed tests on 1s or 2s.

 

So the real comparison the volvo needs to deal with is with the open 60. They have usually gone with something a bit more conservative but just that bit longer so that they can say, when pushed harder by a full crew, they are faster.

 

It's the same as the AC. Just faster is just enough.

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Strangely, a multi is perhaps the safer option now. A very good point was made in the announcement. The pace of innovation is very fast right now. A mono designed in the next year may well be significantly overshadowed by the time the next VOR actually took to the seas. Multis are less likely to be so radically outpaced by a newer design, mostly because they are already silly fast and the foiling is perhaps more understood.

 

Where the decision is going to be hard is in the logistics of the race. As discussed many times. Multis or indeed an ultra fast semi-foiling mono will mean shorter leg times, and a re-jigging of the race. Need an extra complete race villiage setup, and some difficult to address problems with stop over dates must be solved. They may need to add some legs to extend the race distance. (My suggestion would be to break up the Guangzhao to Auckland leg with a visit to San Francisco or San Diego. That should put a suitable dent in the speed of the race. Plus add a potentially very lucrative stop over.) Simply working out the dock space for multis is another headache. Nothing is insuperable, but the second order problems may still drive the selection.

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Really disappointed that the VOR looks like continuing as a boring old one-design procession. No chance here for any aspiring young boat designers in the foreseeable future. Boatbuilding work only for a selected few. The established rich get richer, the up and coming young have no work. Well, that's globalisation for you.

 

The videos from Jack and Leo posted above are way more exciting than anything which came out of the last VOR.

Footage of the 70's was a bit more like it.

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^ Imagine a fully crewed Open 70, a la IMOCA 60, Hugo Boss. Who needs a beach tri on steroids anyway?

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Awesome vid, Leo, 1st time I see that version.

 

Quite a bunch of pensioners nowadays with nice stories to tell ;)

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1st of 5 ..Flyer 2

 

 

Very interesting vid too, Jack ! Nice images from the '81 Maxi worlds at the end.

 

Pic of the three people without whom Flyer2 would not have been what she was and If I am not wrong, -with the So'wester-, the "4th musketeer"

post-6361-0-45587000-1491649935_thumb.jpg

post-6361-0-44746300-1491649965_thumb.jpg

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Faster boats make a lap of a pacific to take in the west coast on option

 

Cape Town

Auckland

San fan

China

Brazil

New York

Lorient

Gothenburg

?

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Really disappointed that the VOR looks like continuing as a boring old one-design procession. No chance here for any aspiring young boat designers in the foreseeable future. Boatbuilding work only for a selected few. The established rich get richer, the up and coming young have no work. Well, that's globalisation for you.

 

The videos from Jack and Leo posted above are way more exciting than anything which came out of the last VOR.

Footage of the 70's was a bit more like it.

 

 

Really disappointed that the VOR looks like continuing as a boring old one-design procession.

 

Do you really think that if they go to multis that it will be back to open design or even a box rule?

 

No chance here for any aspiring young boat designers in the foreseeable future.

 

​Why not? Are aspiring young boat designers only designing monos? I suspect many designers would give their middle nut to scale up the semi-foiling IMOCAs we saw in the Vendee.

 

Boatbuilding work only for a selected few.

 

​To build grand prix multis there will probably be less boatbuilder options than monos.

 

The established rich get richer, the up and coming young have no work. Well, that's globalisation for you.

 

The fuck are you on about?

 

 

For someone that is so anti-VOR you rub your balls against this thread a lot.

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Faster boats make a lap of a pacific to take in the west coast on option

 

Cape Town

Auckland

San fan

China

Brazil

New York NEWPORT

Lorient

Gothenburg

?

 

 

FIXED IT FOR YOU!

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