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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Ummm...TPG that is the orange/blue of Eleventh Hour and Vestas. Orange/royal of 11H with a fade to the lighter blue of Vestas.

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Ummm...TPG that is the orange/blue of Eleventh Hour and Vestas. Orange/royal of 11H with a fade to the lighter blue of Vestas.

 

I saw the wrong bow then. Whoops

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So are Vestas sailing their reefed boat back round or the old Alvimedica? I've gotta think the reefed boat has a hurried refit (void at this point but still) and weighs more than the other boats in the fleet. What does Charlie prefer??

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It's official. Team Vesta's/eleven hours racing announces 2017/18 campaign.

 

 

Are the news 24 hours delayed in your country, or is it just you?

His whole life is delayed, be nice, he can't help it. :)

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So are Vestas sailing their reefed boat back round or the old Alvimedica? I've gotta think the reefed boat has a hurried refit (void at this point but still) and weighs more than the other boats in the fleet. What does Charlie prefer??

 

The refit process is identical for each boat, and part of it ensures that the boats weigh exactly the same. Indeed the claim is that the weights are closer than when first built.

 

The old Vestas boat is much closer to being a new boat with a doner deck than a repaired boat. New hull, keel , mast. But all the fittings are original. That isn't a small amount of money. If you believe that a new boat affords some advantage, you would want to take the old Vestas boat.

 

Vestas (the company) made a lot about the desire and need to rebuild and continue the race. It would be very hard to imagine they would walk away from the boat now. Using it is part of the ethos of continuing in the race. Charlie is an employee, it isn't up to him to decide he wants the boat he sailed on last time.

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So are Vestas sailing their reefed boat back round or the old Alvimedica? I've gotta think the reefed boat has a hurried refit (void at this point but still) and weighs more than the other boats in the fleet. What does Charlie prefer??

I thought the training boat Akzonobel is using is the old Vestas copy/paste job. Can't be bothered to look up if it is true or not.

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So are Vestas sailing their reefed boat back round or the old Alvimedica? I've gotta think the reefed boat has a hurried refit (void at this point but still) and weighs more than the other boats in the fleet. What does Charlie prefer??

 

The refit process is identical for each boat, and part of it ensures that the boats weigh exactly the same. Indeed the claim is that the weights are closer than when first built.

 

The old Vestas boat is much closer to being a new boat with a doner deck than a repaired boat. New hull, keel , mast. But all the fittings are original. That isn't a small amount of money. If you believe that a new boat affords some advantage, you would want to take the old Vestas boat.

 

Vestas (the company) made a lot about the desire and need to rebuild and continue the race. It would be very hard to imagine they would walk away from the boat now. Using it is part of the ethos of continuing in the race. Charlie is an employee, it isn't up to him to decide he wants the boat he sailed on last time.

Yeah, I think so too. IMHO, the reefed Vestas boat is the newer of the old boats.

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With the amount of time, money and especially expertise the VOR has invested in the Boatyard I seriously doubt if any boat in the fleet would not conform to the strict one design concept.

 

I also know that the boats are accurately weighed to ensure their weight (I understand the 1st boat DFRT is being used as the bench mark) and any differences will be made up with corrector weights.

 

First boat out. last boat out or the new boat? In theory - and most likely in practice - having the new boat will only be a psychological advantage and then only in the minds of the actual team.

 

SS.

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With the amount of time, money and especially expertise the VOR has invested in the Boatyard I seriously doubt if any boat in the fleet would not conform to the strict one design concept.

 

I also know that the boats are accurately weighed to ensure their weight (I understand the 1st boat DFRT is being used as the bench mark) and any differences will be made up with corrector weights.

 

First boat out. last boat out or the new boat? In theory - and most likely in practice - having the new boat will only be a psychological advantage and then only in the minds of the actual team.

 

SS.

or to quote Tienpont (from Scuttlebutt),

“Our goal is to be the best prepared team on the start line in Alicante, so, our first choice was always to have a new boat built.

“If you have that option, it’s a no-brainer decision to make when you are racing around the world.”

..... only for a psychological advantage, of course

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I just saw a news release that the Boatyard has finished up on boat 8 adn it is now getting hauled to the next place for fitting out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqiZsKCsKQ&feature=push-u&attr_tag=Zd3Q6VzOZn_2zdcL-6

They seem to be the Netherlands version of Dupont

 

If my eyes weren't dreaming, it looks like a new sponsor, Akozo Nobel. Is that an actual sponsor of the boat? It has a #teamazokobel hashtag and they mentioned is is going to get painted and measured.

Or is that just a way to advertise for a paint company. They end with a "More to come..." moment.

the 8th boat would seem to indicate that we have 8 boats racing, but team sponsors are holding the cards real close to the chest. 8 would be very cool.

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I just saw a news release that the Boatyard has finished up on boat 8 adn it is now getting hauled to the next place for fitting out.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqiZsKCsKQ&feature=push-u&attr_tag=Zd3Q6VzOZn_2zdcL-6

They seem to be the Netherlands version of Dupont

 

If my eyes weren't dreaming, it looks like a new sponsor, Akozo Nobel. Is that an actual sponsor of the boat? It has a #teamazokobel hashtag and they mentioned is is going to get painted and measured.

 

Or is that just a way to advertise for a paint company. They end with a "More to come..." moment.

the 8th boat would seem to indicate that we have 8 boats racing, but team sponsors are holding the cards real close to the chest. 8 would be very cool.

 

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/presszone/en/3531_Volvo-Ocean-Race-announces-Team-AkzoNobel-as-first-entry-of-2017-18-edition.html

 

Been news since last July mate.

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I just saw a news release that the Boatyard has finished up on boat 8 adn it is now getting hauled to the next place for fitting out.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqiZsKCsKQ&feature=push-u&attr_tag=Zd3Q6VzOZn_2zdcL-6

They seem to be the Netherlands version of Dupont

 

If my eyes weren't dreaming, it looks like a new sponsor, Akozo Nobel. Is that an actual sponsor of the boat? It has a #teamazokobel hashtag and they mentioned is is going to get painted and measured.

 

Or is that just a way to advertise for a paint company. They end with a "More to come..." moment.

the 8th boat would seem to indicate that we have 8 boats racing, but team sponsors are holding the cards real close to the chest. 8 would be very cool.

 

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/presszone/en/3531_Volvo-Ocean-Race-announces-Team-AkzoNobel-as-first-entry-of-2017-18-edition.html

 

Been news since last July mate.

 

Well blow me down...was that in one of the lists of entries posted here as speculation? They got a crew? Why is the 8th boat for the first sponsor and if that is the case, what is the current announced list of teams...

 

DF

Vesta

Mapfre

AN

 

guesses on who's next?

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

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Well the Whois database sheets home ownership of germanoceanracingteam.com to TeamThink - these guys: https://www.teamthink.de/en/

 

Not exactly a big operation or a company name that is foremost in the mind when thinking of German sponsors. More likely the central organising group that is bringing a team together.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

We're still waiting for your solution to solving all the problems with the Volvo race.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

We're still waiting for your solution to solving all the problems with the Volvo race.

Already said it Mad..someone needs to step into Volvo's shoes to carry it forward. A big ask yes ...but what is the risk of them folding up their tent after this one? Quite high I suspect.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

We're still waiting for your solution to solving all the problems with the Volvo race.

Already said it Mad..someone needs to step into Volvo's shoes to carry it forward. A big ask yes ...but what is the risk of them folding up their tent after this one? Quite high I suspect.

 

But carry it forward in what way?

 

Change the course, the boats, the crew requirements?

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a German team, that would be a huge surprise.

Surprise...yes. Huge Surprise....no.

 

After all Germany has won the VOR once in 2001/2002 with the Illbruck Challenge so there is that.

 

 

 

Illbruck doesn't count. Last millionaire involved with the race before the corporate sponsors (and huge budgets) arrived. Germany is well presented in sailing (SAP, Hugo Boss, Mercedes, BMW to name a few), but without a stopover and very limited sailing interest in media, I have always considered a VOR campaign a hugely complex sell in Germany.

 

If this guys happen, maybe they come with their Austrian neighbours Red Bull. RB is increasingly portraying VOR footage on their media channels.

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AUDI in the VOLVO Ocean Race?!? No way. Paid advertisement in a competitor's platform. An impossible sell.

 

The VOR rules allow automotive companies to sponsor teams indeed, but either you are part of Volvo Group (i.e. Dongfeng), or it makes no sense.

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There was a yellow and black boat being painted up in the boatyard in a recent post.

Didn't Team Brunel have a Yellow/Black Boat in the 14/15 Race?

 

 

yes

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Mapfre has dropped their rig in testing, bummer. I can't remember off hand, but how many spare tubes did Bicey say they keep? I guess this is where the boatyard concept comes in real handy. What's the rule on sails if they've trashed a couple dropping the rig? Would they be testing with old sails from the last race?

 

From their website

At 17:15hrs local time this Thursday afternoon while the team was sailing about seven nautical miles SW of the island of Ons (Pontevedra) near their home base in around 25 knots of wind and four meter high waves the VO65 MAPFRE’s mast broke below the first spreader.

There was a crash and then the rig started to fall to starboard,” reported Pablo Arrarte, MAPFRE’s watch captain who was sailing as skipper of the boat during this period of testing. “We were sailing on quite a comfortable reach with waves also from the same direction and so at the moment we do not know why it has broken. We will have to analyse the data and the damaged parts in order to draw a conclusion.

The crew have not suffered any injuries and after fully checking for any collateral damage to other parts of the boat it took around two hours of intense work to secure the boat and recover the broken parts of the mast and the sails.

The team’s emergency protocol was activated immediately and for safety reasons, Salvamento Marítimo [Maritime Rescue] was notified. They monitored the Spanish VO65 and when the crew had secured the boat the emergency services were duly informed that the crew were heading back to Sanxenxo under their own means.

We will keep you posted!

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Mapfre has dropped their rig in testing, bummer. I can't remember off hand, but how many spare tubes did Bicey say they keep? I guess this is where the boatyard concept comes in real handy. What's the rule on sails if they've trashed a couple dropping the rig? Would they be testing with old sails from the last race?

 

From their website

At 17:15hrs local time this Thursday afternoon while the team was sailing about seven nautical miles SW of the island of Ons (Pontevedra) near their home base in around 25 knots of wind and four meter high waves the VO65 MAPFRE’s mast broke below the first spreader.

There was a crash and then the rig started to fall to starboard,” reported Pablo Arrarte, MAPFRE’s watch captain who was sailing as skipper of the boat during this period of testing. “We were sailing on quite a comfortable reach with waves also from the same direction and so at the moment we do not know why it has broken. We will have to analyse the data and the damaged parts in order to draw a conclusion.

The crew have not suffered any injuries and after fully checking for any collateral damage to other parts of the boat it took around two hours of intense work to secure the boat and recover the broken parts of the mast and the sails.

The team’s emergency protocol was activated immediately and for safety reasons, Salvamento Marítimo [Maritime Rescue] was notified. They monitored the Spanish VO65 and when the crew had secured the boat the emergency services were duly informed that the crew were heading back to Sanxenxo under their own means.

We will keep you posted!

 

fuck me, 4m seas and 25 knots especially off the wind is hardly considered extreme for these boats. wonder what gave way?

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Are we hearing no news because there are some amazingly well kept secrets out there? or are we hearing no news because there is no news?

Will Volvo pull the plug soon?

Just like you had the story but 'needed to shore it up' on the vestas announcement. I know you knew all but needed to confirm, yet you broke no news. Maybe sailing and sailing media is avoiding you and this circus, big guy. The 'reporter' known as Clean is included in this.

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Sorry to hear about Xabi and the boys problems with the rig. Better though that it happened on a training sail than at the beginning of Leg 1.

 

Probably, like so many rig failures before it that it will come down to a 10 bucks fitting.

 

Somebody will be burning the late night oil in Auckland soon no doubt.

 

SS

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Somebody will be burning the late night oil in Auckland soon no doubt.

Not wrong. This is why you do shakedowns. But worrying and embarrassing. Given the over the top one design manufacture, hard to imagine that there isn't a good chance the flaw is in every boat.

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Further to my post that TeamThink own the germanoceanracing.com site, I notice that they list Sperry Marine as a past client. A bit tenuous a link, but Sperry isn't an unreasonable sponsor.

 

One suspects that TeamThink are somewhere in the middle of an effort to pull together the various strings to build a team. Pulling in contacts via old clients is a good start.

 

Their Facebook page lists Weert Kramer and Oliver Peter.

 

Weert Kramer is TeamThink, and gets search hits including pics of him at the wheel of a big sailing boats. One suspects he intends sailing the race.

Oliver Peter's Linkedin page includes: Senior Adviser at MCF Corporate Finance, Partner at German Ocean Racing Team

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vow. dropping the rig in training must be a VOR first. If the boats are truly one design, all other teams must be worried. Nice refit indeed. Ha.

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Come on folks! These Vo 65s are super tough unbreakable boats with super tough unbreakable rigs, so it has to be down to operator error. (DF "pushed too hard" after all in the last race!). And isn't there a rule that for each team there is a strictly limited set of sails which can be used both for training and the race? So if you are careless enough to badly damage a sail you just have to fix it yourself! (Oops, sorry, forgot that rule only gets applied if its an all-girl boat). Will be interesting to see how this one pans out.
(Joking of course!)

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Come on folks! These Vo 65s are super tough unbreakable boats with super tough unbreakable rigs, so it has to be down to operator error. [CUT]

 

Or a production problem.

Anyone knows if the mast was a new one or a refurbished one?

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Before there is too much more wailing, gnashing of teeth, and the obligatory VOR is the Suxz, perhaps we wait to see what was the cause. Clearly they are not repairing that main so an exception certainly is a given since VOR needs the competition.

Bummer day for sure.

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Bummer about Mapfre, but going back to Red Bull, although it is a company registered in Austria, according to news reports, a Thai national Chaleo Yoovidya was a co-founder, and his reported heir, grandson Vorayuth Yoovidya apparently has both money to burn and a lot of domestic clout. Could this be a connection to a previously indicated S.E. Asian team?

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Mapfre broke their mast during offshore training near their training base Sanxenxo while reaching in 25 kts and 4 meter waves. No injuries luckily. The rig and mainsail have been recovered in a 2 hours effort. The mast broke just below the first spreaders. The mast clocked 1 RTW in 2014/15.

 

I'm wondering how in these not so rough conditions the rig could fail. And what the accident means for the rest of the fleet. Being one design and all that.

 

Source (in Dutch) https://www.clubracer.be/2017/4/1/video-mapfre-breekt-mast-tijdens-offhore-zeiltraining

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Who knows, the masts get out of the boat often, one mistake for instance from a forklift guy who walks away whistling is enough.

 

 

It seems unlikely its a design flaw, it has been around once before.

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It seems unlikely its a design flaw, it has been around once before.

 

It has however been fully refitted, and modified to some slightly new design spec. Given the history of mast losses in the VOR, a bad new fitting would be high on my list of suspects. Components where the metallurgy is not quite what it said on the tin seems to be a constant problem.

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It seems unlikely its a design flaw, it has been around once before.

 

It has however been fully refitted, and modified to some slightly new design spec. Given the history of mast losses in the VOR, a bad new fitting would be high on my list of suspects. Components where the metallurgy is not quite what it said on the tin seems to be a constant problem.

The mast and spreaders are fully carbon. Only metal bits would be the stays, and the main stays have a 26-ton minimum break load. When DFRT lost their mast in the previous edition, it was the top part above the highest spreaders. The stays were OK afaik. Does someone know if a too high permanent pressure on the stays, and especially the lower ones, can cause this breakage so low in the mast?

 

Source http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/boat/31_The-rigs.html

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The stays are carbon as well. The metal bits I was referring to would be any of the termination attachment components. Especially bits that actually bring load onto the mast tube. Stainless steel and titanium bits. Too easy for someone to get the alloy spec wrong, or worse, supply the wrong alloy through either incompetence or fraud, and suddenly your fitting goes bang.

 

Constant pressure is rarely your enemy. Fatigue is what kills most materials, so cyclic loads are the problem. Which is a bit of an issue on an ocean racing boat. And also why getting the right alloys is so important. It isn't that the fitting will simply break at a lower than expected load, but that they may be vastly more prone to fatigue, and thus fail unexpectedly at almost any load.

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The stays are carbon as well. The metal bits I was referring to would be any of the termination attachment components. Especially bits that actually bring load onto the mast tube. Stainless steel and titanium bits. Too easy for someone to get the alloy spec wrong, or worse, supply the wrong alloy through either incompetence or fraud, and suddenly your fitting goes bang.

 

Constant pressure is rarely your enemy. Fatigue is what kills most materials, so cyclic loads are the problem. Which is a bit of an issue on an ocean racing boat. And also why getting the right alloys is so important. It isn't that the fitting will simply break at a lower than expected load, but that they may be vastly more prone to fatigue, and thus fail unexpectedly at almost any load.

 

An expert!

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I think it unwise to speculate in detail about the cause of failure, unless of course one has seen a video of the actual event and inspected all the damaged parts.

Maybe FV has had that priviledge?

There has been a lot of hype about the toughness of these boats and their rigs and one would reasonably expect that if the same boats which have already been RTW once are being offered to new crews as a "one design" they should at least be "equal in strength and performance to a new one". That would mean any fatigue sensitive parts which have used up any significant fraction of their fatigue life should have been replaced by the Boatyard and any loadbearing parts (including the spars themselves) and the complete assembled rig would have been proof load tested for all loading scenarios and certified as having a safe working load well above what can be experienced under sail in all conditions the boats are expected to withstand.

Proof load testing is not rocket science. It is what keeps such things as cranes, lifting gear etc. all relatively safe and reliable, and fatigue testing and non-destructive examination techniques and formalised quality management systems are all now well established enginering procedures and techniques.

Logically, if the design is "tough" that implies a big inherent safety factor. With properly working quality management systems and competent engineering knowledge, in my view the mast, if correctly used, should not have failed under normal sailing conditions, (or with this race slogan in mind, even under "Extreme Sailing" conditions!)

We now have two dis-mastings amongst 7 (?) masts which have on average, been RTW a little over once each. If operator error is not the answer statistically that wouldn't give me a lot of confidence in the design concept and/or the boatyard quality management systems.

Anyone know how the VOR 65 mast failure statistics compare with Imocas over the years, on a mileage per mast basis?

 

Whatever, I will be interested to know what went wrong: that is if the cause of the failure isn't kept secret!

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VOR65 rig development:
-Southern got the contract, build 8-10 rigs

-First rigs delivered before sail contract is signed and final sail configration is finalized. Also, if rumours are true maybe without full info about the boats

-SCA cracked mast around spreader root

-All rigs got additional carbon applied around spreader roots (spreader roots are metal by the way)

-Start of Volvo Race 2014-2015: teams mask off warning LEDs (for the loads) because it blinds drivers during the night shift

-DongFeng starts racing with MH0, Reefed main and hardly any/no checkstay to get more mastbend, more luff tension on MH0 but also more stress into the mast

-Auckland sees all rigs out and tested. Repairs to several tubes (visible for anyone in AKL). Docktalk that rigs might break in next leg because of people pushing the MH0/reefed main combo.

-DF breaks mast in leg to Brasil (exactly where you would expect for deck stepped mast that is over-bending)

 

-Batch of new rigs and rigging ordered for 2018-2019 race

-Refit rigs in transit to Lisbon

-First refit boats get relaunched with original rigs

-Mapfre suffers a breakage, no clear indications as to why/what/how. As always: "in these conditions, it shouldn't have..."

 

As been mentioned here, 8 out of 10 times, a (carbon) rig failure can be attributed to a metal interface (rigging tang, rigging end-fitting) rather than carbon. Luckily people are catching on and getting material certificates and testing of various parts as well as improved maintenance regimes are becoming more common.

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And regarding (possible) entries..:

-AkzoNobel going for new build from outset, got old vestas (and simple rebranding with only name) to do some training but more importantly find the rest of the cash. Currently no boat and some long delays on crew contracts with several people committed but waiting 4-6 weeks already on the actual contract. And let's not forget: new boat means they are one of the last to actual start making miles so even if they were first to announce, what will your advantage be?

-Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection). Now got some of the most experienced guys on board, got the shore side sorted and perhaps the fastest option with female input.

-Mapfre looks to be improved over previous attempt with a lot clearer direction in crew. As far as under-30s go and female there are some very fast and promising names on the list

-11th hour/Vestas clearly have the backing but what about the crew?

 

And then the scary part... where are entries 5-8? I know there is plenty of time left as the boats are not ready yet but would be nice to have some more rumours (outside of SA's forums).

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Where the hell's Mapfre? I was just in their base in Sangenjo hoping to see the broken mast, but it wasn't there...

 

EDIT: I see they're going to Lisbon. I'm going to be there tomorrow too...

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unfortunately my april fool's story about a VOR team looking to take advantage of the male/female rules (by filling the female portion of the crew with 6 'humyns' with big muscles yet who 'identified' as female) didn't make it to press.

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Are you a stalker

 

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Not really, I distribute marine products in Portugal and tomorrow's the Lisbon Boat Show... But I admit I like lurking around hotties and these boat are. I also know a few of the guys onboard Mapfre so...

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Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection).

 

What's different about the hull-deck connection on Dongfeng/hull 1?

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Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection).

 

What's different about the hull-deck connection on Dongfeng/hull 1?

 

Not different, just not right the first attempt. So boats been cooked a few extra times which would result in a stiffer construction (yes I've tried it with carbon on a smaller scale). The gains are, of course far more important psychologically than measurable/physical gains (measurable difference in m experience is a sub-1% gain).

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Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection).

 

What's different about the hull-deck connection on Dongfeng/hull 1?

 

Not different, just not right the first attempt. So boats been cooked a few extra times which would result in a stiffer construction (yes I've tried it with carbon on a smaller scale). The gains are, of course far more important psychologically than measurable/physical gains (measurable difference in m experience is a sub-1% gain).

 

In the VOR, sailed one-design, a sub 1% advantage is still a killing race winner! not just a psychological advantage.

 

The VOR racetrack is 45000 miles next time. 1% of that is 450 miles, 9 legs, so a 1% difference in boat speed with nominally the same design and weather gives you quite a handy 50 mile lead on average for every leg.

 

Even a 0.1% difference still gives you a 5 mile winning lead.

 

If you are sailing one-design the boats and their sails need to be exactly the same, not just similar. The slightest difference has a massive effect on your chances and the longer the race the bigger the effect.

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Mod70s don't have a presence. They are just fluting around doing speed tests on 1s or 2s.

 

So the real comparison the volvo needs to deal with is with the open 60. They have usually gone with something a bit more conservative but just that bit longer so that they can say, when pushed harder by a full crew, they are faster.

 

It's the same as the AC. Just faster is just enough.

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Strangely, a multi is perhaps the safer option now. A very good point was made in the announcement. The pace of innovation is very fast right now. A mono designed in the next year may well be significantly overshadowed by the time the next VOR actually took to the seas. Multis are less likely to be so radically outpaced by a newer design, mostly because they are already silly fast and the foiling is perhaps more understood.

 

Where the decision is going to be hard is in the logistics of the race. As discussed many times. Multis or indeed an ultra fast semi-foiling mono will mean shorter leg times, and a re-jigging of the race. Need an extra complete race villiage setup, and some difficult to address problems with stop over dates must be solved. They may need to add some legs to extend the race distance. (My suggestion would be to break up the Guangzhao to Auckland leg with a visit to San Francisco or San Diego. That should put a suitable dent in the speed of the race. Plus add a potentially very lucrative stop over.) Simply working out the dock space for multis is another headache. Nothing is insuperable, but the second order problems may still drive the selection.

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Really disappointed that the VOR looks like continuing as a boring old one-design procession. No chance here for any aspiring young boat designers in the foreseeable future. Boatbuilding work only for a selected few. The established rich get richer, the up and coming young have no work. Well, that's globalisation for you.

 

The videos from Jack and Leo posted above are way more exciting than anything which came out of the last VOR.

Footage of the 70's was a bit more like it.

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^ Imagine a fully crewed Open 70, a la IMOCA 60, Hugo Boss. Who needs a beach tri on steroids anyway?

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1st of 5 ..Flyer 2

 

 

Very interesting vid too, Jack ! Nice images from the '81 Maxi worlds at the end.

 

Pic of the three people without whom Flyer2 would not have been what she was and If I am not wrong, -with the So'wester-, the "4th musketeer"

post-6361-0-45587000-1491649935_thumb.jpg

post-6361-0-44746300-1491649965_thumb.jpg

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Faster boats make a lap of a pacific to take in the west coast on option

 

Cape Town

Auckland

San fan

China

Brazil

New York

Lorient

Gothenburg

?

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Really disappointed that the VOR looks like continuing as a boring old one-design procession. No chance here for any aspiring young boat designers in the foreseeable future. Boatbuilding work only for a selected few. The established rich get richer, the up and coming young have no work. Well, that's globalisation for you.

 

The videos from Jack and Leo posted above are way more exciting than anything which came out of the last VOR.

Footage of the 70's was a bit more like it.

 

 

Really disappointed that the VOR looks like continuing as a boring old one-design procession.

 

Do you really think that if they go to multis that it will be back to open design or even a box rule?

 

No chance here for any aspiring young boat designers in the foreseeable future.

 

​Why not? Are aspiring young boat designers only designing monos? I suspect many designers would give their middle nut to scale up the semi-foiling IMOCAs we saw in the Vendee.

 

Boatbuilding work only for a selected few.

 

​To build grand prix multis there will probably be less boatbuilder options than monos.

 

The established rich get richer, the up and coming young have no work. Well, that's globalisation for you.

 

The fuck are you on about?

 

 

For someone that is so anti-VOR you rub your balls against this thread a lot.

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Faster boats make a lap of a pacific to take in the west coast on option

 

Cape Town

Auckland

San fan

China

Brazil

New York NEWPORT

Lorient

Gothenburg

?

 

 

FIXED IT FOR YOU!

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