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JeronimoII

VOR 2017-18

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Well the Whois database sheets home ownership of germanoceanracingteam.com to TeamThink - these guys: https://www.teamthink.de/en/

 

Not exactly a big operation or a company name that is foremost in the mind when thinking of German sponsors. More likely the central organising group that is bringing a team together.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

We're still waiting for your solution to solving all the problems with the Volvo race.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

We're still waiting for your solution to solving all the problems with the Volvo race.

Already said it Mad..someone needs to step into Volvo's shoes to carry it forward. A big ask yes ...but what is the risk of them folding up their tent after this one? Quite high I suspect.

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Mad is that Nobel prize shit code for your VOR sponsor of choice will be Nobody?...

 

If so you forget there was a Nobody last time around. Crew names were Nobody (changes his name every race to suck up to sponsors), Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and then there was Crazy doing Nav.

 

So 30 minutes out of the start Everybody thought that Somebody would do it, but Anybody realised that Nobody would do it. So consequently Everybody blamed Somebody....sort of then went downhill after that.

 

Some months later Crazy just went I have had enough..did his crazy laugh thing and drove them on to a reef.

 

They should just call it plain old Vestas...that has a far better ring to it than Nobody ..and without any history thing.

We're still waiting for your solution to solving all the problems with the Volvo race.

Already said it Mad..someone needs to step into Volvo's shoes to carry it forward. A big ask yes ...but what is the risk of them folding up their tent after this one? Quite high I suspect.

 

But carry it forward in what way?

 

Change the course, the boats, the crew requirements?

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a German team, that would be a huge surprise.

Surprise...yes. Huge Surprise....no.

 

After all Germany has won the VOR once in 2001/2002 with the Illbruck Challenge so there is that.

 

 

 

Illbruck doesn't count. Last millionaire involved with the race before the corporate sponsors (and huge budgets) arrived. Germany is well presented in sailing (SAP, Hugo Boss, Mercedes, BMW to name a few), but without a stopover and very limited sailing interest in media, I have always considered a VOR campaign a hugely complex sell in Germany.

 

If this guys happen, maybe they come with their Austrian neighbours Red Bull. RB is increasingly portraying VOR footage on their media channels.

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AUDI in the VOLVO Ocean Race?!? No way. Paid advertisement in a competitor's platform. An impossible sell.

 

The VOR rules allow automotive companies to sponsor teams indeed, but either you are part of Volvo Group (i.e. Dongfeng), or it makes no sense.

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There was a yellow and black boat being painted up in the boatyard in a recent post.

Didn't Team Brunel have a Yellow/Black Boat in the 14/15 Race?

 

 

yes

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Mapfre has dropped their rig in testing, bummer. I can't remember off hand, but how many spare tubes did Bicey say they keep? I guess this is where the boatyard concept comes in real handy. What's the rule on sails if they've trashed a couple dropping the rig? Would they be testing with old sails from the last race?

 

From their website

At 17:15hrs local time this Thursday afternoon while the team was sailing about seven nautical miles SW of the island of Ons (Pontevedra) near their home base in around 25 knots of wind and four meter high waves the VO65 MAPFRE’s mast broke below the first spreader.

There was a crash and then the rig started to fall to starboard,” reported Pablo Arrarte, MAPFRE’s watch captain who was sailing as skipper of the boat during this period of testing. “We were sailing on quite a comfortable reach with waves also from the same direction and so at the moment we do not know why it has broken. We will have to analyse the data and the damaged parts in order to draw a conclusion.

The crew have not suffered any injuries and after fully checking for any collateral damage to other parts of the boat it took around two hours of intense work to secure the boat and recover the broken parts of the mast and the sails.

The team’s emergency protocol was activated immediately and for safety reasons, Salvamento Marítimo [Maritime Rescue] was notified. They monitored the Spanish VO65 and when the crew had secured the boat the emergency services were duly informed that the crew were heading back to Sanxenxo under their own means.

We will keep you posted!

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Mapfre has dropped their rig in testing, bummer. I can't remember off hand, but how many spare tubes did Bicey say they keep? I guess this is where the boatyard concept comes in real handy. What's the rule on sails if they've trashed a couple dropping the rig? Would they be testing with old sails from the last race?

 

From their website

At 17:15hrs local time this Thursday afternoon while the team was sailing about seven nautical miles SW of the island of Ons (Pontevedra) near their home base in around 25 knots of wind and four meter high waves the VO65 MAPFRE’s mast broke below the first spreader.

There was a crash and then the rig started to fall to starboard,” reported Pablo Arrarte, MAPFRE’s watch captain who was sailing as skipper of the boat during this period of testing. “We were sailing on quite a comfortable reach with waves also from the same direction and so at the moment we do not know why it has broken. We will have to analyse the data and the damaged parts in order to draw a conclusion.

The crew have not suffered any injuries and after fully checking for any collateral damage to other parts of the boat it took around two hours of intense work to secure the boat and recover the broken parts of the mast and the sails.

The team’s emergency protocol was activated immediately and for safety reasons, Salvamento Marítimo [Maritime Rescue] was notified. They monitored the Spanish VO65 and when the crew had secured the boat the emergency services were duly informed that the crew were heading back to Sanxenxo under their own means.

We will keep you posted!

 

fuck me, 4m seas and 25 knots especially off the wind is hardly considered extreme for these boats. wonder what gave way?

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Are we hearing no news because there are some amazingly well kept secrets out there? or are we hearing no news because there is no news?

Will Volvo pull the plug soon?

Just like you had the story but 'needed to shore it up' on the vestas announcement. I know you knew all but needed to confirm, yet you broke no news. Maybe sailing and sailing media is avoiding you and this circus, big guy. The 'reporter' known as Clean is included in this.

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Sorry to hear about Xabi and the boys problems with the rig. Better though that it happened on a training sail than at the beginning of Leg 1.

 

Probably, like so many rig failures before it that it will come down to a 10 bucks fitting.

 

Somebody will be burning the late night oil in Auckland soon no doubt.

 

SS

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Someone will sure be on a plane to look at the aftermath

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Somebody will be burning the late night oil in Auckland soon no doubt.

Not wrong. This is why you do shakedowns. But worrying and embarrassing. Given the over the top one design manufacture, hard to imagine that there isn't a good chance the flaw is in every boat.

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Further to my post that TeamThink own the germanoceanracing.com site, I notice that they list Sperry Marine as a past client. A bit tenuous a link, but Sperry isn't an unreasonable sponsor.

 

One suspects that TeamThink are somewhere in the middle of an effort to pull together the various strings to build a team. Pulling in contacts via old clients is a good start.

 

Their Facebook page lists Weert Kramer and Oliver Peter.

 

Weert Kramer is TeamThink, and gets search hits including pics of him at the wheel of a big sailing boats. One suspects he intends sailing the race.

Oliver Peter's Linkedin page includes: Senior Adviser at MCF Corporate Finance, Partner at German Ocean Racing Team

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vow. dropping the rig in training must be a VOR first. If the boats are truly one design, all other teams must be worried. Nice refit indeed. Ha.

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Come on folks! These Vo 65s are super tough unbreakable boats with super tough unbreakable rigs, so it has to be down to operator error. (DF "pushed too hard" after all in the last race!). And isn't there a rule that for each team there is a strictly limited set of sails which can be used both for training and the race? So if you are careless enough to badly damage a sail you just have to fix it yourself! (Oops, sorry, forgot that rule only gets applied if its an all-girl boat). Will be interesting to see how this one pans out.
(Joking of course!)

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Come on folks! These Vo 65s are super tough unbreakable boats with super tough unbreakable rigs, so it has to be down to operator error. [CUT]

 

Or a production problem.

Anyone knows if the mast was a new one or a refurbished one?

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Does it matter? It'll be crickets & spin from here on in...

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Before there is too much more wailing, gnashing of teeth, and the obligatory VOR is the Suxz, perhaps we wait to see what was the cause. Clearly they are not repairing that main so an exception certainly is a given since VOR needs the competition.

Bummer day for sure.

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Bummer about Mapfre, but going back to Red Bull, although it is a company registered in Austria, according to news reports, a Thai national Chaleo Yoovidya was a co-founder, and his reported heir, grandson Vorayuth Yoovidya apparently has both money to burn and a lot of domestic clout. Could this be a connection to a previously indicated S.E. Asian team?

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Who knows, the masts get out of the boat often, one mistake for instance from a forklift guy who walks away whistling is enough.

 

 

It seems unlikely its a design flaw, it has been around once before.

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It seems unlikely its a design flaw, it has been around once before.

 

It has however been fully refitted, and modified to some slightly new design spec. Given the history of mast losses in the VOR, a bad new fitting would be high on my list of suspects. Components where the metallurgy is not quite what it said on the tin seems to be a constant problem.

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The stays are carbon as well. The metal bits I was referring to would be any of the termination attachment components. Especially bits that actually bring load onto the mast tube. Stainless steel and titanium bits. Too easy for someone to get the alloy spec wrong, or worse, supply the wrong alloy through either incompetence or fraud, and suddenly your fitting goes bang.

 

Constant pressure is rarely your enemy. Fatigue is what kills most materials, so cyclic loads are the problem. Which is a bit of an issue on an ocean racing boat. And also why getting the right alloys is so important. It isn't that the fitting will simply break at a lower than expected load, but that they may be vastly more prone to fatigue, and thus fail unexpectedly at almost any load.

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The stays are carbon as well. The metal bits I was referring to would be any of the termination attachment components. Especially bits that actually bring load onto the mast tube. Stainless steel and titanium bits. Too easy for someone to get the alloy spec wrong, or worse, supply the wrong alloy through either incompetence or fraud, and suddenly your fitting goes bang.

 

Constant pressure is rarely your enemy. Fatigue is what kills most materials, so cyclic loads are the problem. Which is a bit of an issue on an ocean racing boat. And also why getting the right alloys is so important. It isn't that the fitting will simply break at a lower than expected load, but that they may be vastly more prone to fatigue, and thus fail unexpectedly at almost any load.

 

An expert!

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I think it unwise to speculate in detail about the cause of failure, unless of course one has seen a video of the actual event and inspected all the damaged parts.

Maybe FV has had that priviledge?

There has been a lot of hype about the toughness of these boats and their rigs and one would reasonably expect that if the same boats which have already been RTW once are being offered to new crews as a "one design" they should at least be "equal in strength and performance to a new one". That would mean any fatigue sensitive parts which have used up any significant fraction of their fatigue life should have been replaced by the Boatyard and any loadbearing parts (including the spars themselves) and the complete assembled rig would have been proof load tested for all loading scenarios and certified as having a safe working load well above what can be experienced under sail in all conditions the boats are expected to withstand.

Proof load testing is not rocket science. It is what keeps such things as cranes, lifting gear etc. all relatively safe and reliable, and fatigue testing and non-destructive examination techniques and formalised quality management systems are all now well established enginering procedures and techniques.

Logically, if the design is "tough" that implies a big inherent safety factor. With properly working quality management systems and competent engineering knowledge, in my view the mast, if correctly used, should not have failed under normal sailing conditions, (or with this race slogan in mind, even under "Extreme Sailing" conditions!)

We now have two dis-mastings amongst 7 (?) masts which have on average, been RTW a little over once each. If operator error is not the answer statistically that wouldn't give me a lot of confidence in the design concept and/or the boatyard quality management systems.

Anyone know how the VOR 65 mast failure statistics compare with Imocas over the years, on a mileage per mast basis?

 

Whatever, I will be interested to know what went wrong: that is if the cause of the failure isn't kept secret!

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VOR65 rig development:
-Southern got the contract, build 8-10 rigs

-First rigs delivered before sail contract is signed and final sail configration is finalized. Also, if rumours are true maybe without full info about the boats

-SCA cracked mast around spreader root

-All rigs got additional carbon applied around spreader roots (spreader roots are metal by the way)

-Start of Volvo Race 2014-2015: teams mask off warning LEDs (for the loads) because it blinds drivers during the night shift

-DongFeng starts racing with MH0, Reefed main and hardly any/no checkstay to get more mastbend, more luff tension on MH0 but also more stress into the mast

-Auckland sees all rigs out and tested. Repairs to several tubes (visible for anyone in AKL). Docktalk that rigs might break in next leg because of people pushing the MH0/reefed main combo.

-DF breaks mast in leg to Brasil (exactly where you would expect for deck stepped mast that is over-bending)

 

-Batch of new rigs and rigging ordered for 2018-2019 race

-Refit rigs in transit to Lisbon

-First refit boats get relaunched with original rigs

-Mapfre suffers a breakage, no clear indications as to why/what/how. As always: "in these conditions, it shouldn't have..."

 

As been mentioned here, 8 out of 10 times, a (carbon) rig failure can be attributed to a metal interface (rigging tang, rigging end-fitting) rather than carbon. Luckily people are catching on and getting material certificates and testing of various parts as well as improved maintenance regimes are becoming more common.

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And regarding (possible) entries..:

-AkzoNobel going for new build from outset, got old vestas (and simple rebranding with only name) to do some training but more importantly find the rest of the cash. Currently no boat and some long delays on crew contracts with several people committed but waiting 4-6 weeks already on the actual contract. And let's not forget: new boat means they are one of the last to actual start making miles so even if they were first to announce, what will your advantage be?

-Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection). Now got some of the most experienced guys on board, got the shore side sorted and perhaps the fastest option with female input.

-Mapfre looks to be improved over previous attempt with a lot clearer direction in crew. As far as under-30s go and female there are some very fast and promising names on the list

-11th hour/Vestas clearly have the backing but what about the crew?

 

And then the scary part... where are entries 5-8? I know there is plenty of time left as the boats are not ready yet but would be nice to have some more rumours (outside of SA's forums).

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Where the hell's Mapfre? I was just in their base in Sangenjo hoping to see the broken mast, but it wasn't there...

 

EDIT: I see they're going to Lisbon. I'm going to be there tomorrow too...

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unfortunately my april fool's story about a VOR team looking to take advantage of the male/female rules (by filling the female portion of the crew with 6 'humyns' with big muscles yet who 'identified' as female) didn't make it to press.

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^^^ Unfortunately is not the word you were looking for. Thankfully seems a better fit.

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Are you a stalker

 

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Not really, I distribute marine products in Portugal and tomorrow's the Lisbon Boat Show... But I admit I like lurking around hotties and these boat are. I also know a few of the guys onboard Mapfre so...

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Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection).

 

What's different about the hull-deck connection on Dongfeng/hull 1?

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Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection).

 

What's different about the hull-deck connection on Dongfeng/hull 1?

 

Not different, just not right the first attempt. So boats been cooked a few extra times which would result in a stiffer construction (yes I've tried it with carbon on a smaller scale). The gains are, of course far more important psychologically than measurable/physical gains (measurable difference in m experience is a sub-1% gain).

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Dongfeng had the "worst" boat in the previous race (hull 1) that was actually the stiffest because of hull-deck connection).

 

What's different about the hull-deck connection on Dongfeng/hull 1?

 

Not different, just not right the first attempt. So boats been cooked a few extra times which would result in a stiffer construction (yes I've tried it with carbon on a smaller scale). The gains are, of course far more important psychologically than measurable/physical gains (measurable difference in m experience is a sub-1% gain).

 

In the VOR, sailed one-design, a sub 1% advantage is still a killing race winner! not just a psychological advantage.

 

The VOR racetrack is 45000 miles next time. 1% of that is 450 miles, 9 legs, so a 1% difference in boat speed with nominally the same design and weather gives you quite a handy 50 mile lead on average for every leg.

 

Even a 0.1% difference still gives you a 5 mile winning lead.

 

If you are sailing one-design the boats and their sails need to be exactly the same, not just similar. The slightest difference has a massive effect on your chances and the longer the race the bigger the effect.

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There is only a multi in the announcement video.

From the Ac too.

 

 

 

Hm....

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Mod70s don't have a presence. They are just fluting around doing speed tests on 1s or 2s.

 

So the real comparison the volvo needs to deal with is with the open 60. They have usually gone with something a bit more conservative but just that bit longer so that they can say, when pushed harder by a full crew, they are faster.

 

It's the same as the AC. Just faster is just enough.

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Strangely, a multi is perhaps the safer option now. A very good point was made in the announcement. The pace of innovation is very fast right now. A mono designed in the next year may well be significantly overshadowed by the time the next VOR actually took to the seas. Multis are less likely to be so radically outpaced by a newer design, mostly because they are already silly fast and the foiling is perhaps more understood.

 

Where the decision is going to be hard is in the logistics of the race. As discussed many times. Multis or indeed an ultra fast semi-foiling mono will mean shorter leg times, and a re-jigging of the race. Need an extra complete race villiage setup, and some difficult to address problems with stop over dates must be solved. They may need to add some legs to extend the race distance. (My suggestion would be to break up the Guangzhao to Auckland leg with a visit to San Francisco or San Diego. That should put a suitable dent in the speed of the race. Plus add a potentially very lucrative stop over.) Simply working out the dock space for multis is another headache. Nothing is insuperable, but the second order problems may still drive the selection.

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Really disappointed that the VOR looks like continuing as a boring old one-design procession. No chance here for any aspiring young boat designers in the foreseeable future. Boatbuilding work only for a selected few. The established rich get richer, the up and coming young have no work. Well, that's globalisation for you.

 

The videos from Jack and Leo posted above are way more exciting than anything which came out of the last VOR.

Footage of the 70's was a bit more like it.

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^ Imagine a fully crewed Open 70, a la IMOCA 60, Hugo Boss. Who needs a beach tri on steroids anyway?

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Awesome vid, Leo, 1st time I see that version.

 

Quite a bunch of pensioners nowadays with nice stories to tell ;)

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1st of 5 ..Flyer 2

 

 

Very interesting vid too, Jack ! Nice images from the '81 Maxi worlds at the end.

 

Pic of the three people without whom Flyer2 would not have been what she was and If I am not wrong, -with the So'wester-, the "4th musketeer"

post-6361-0-45587000-1491649935_thumb.jpg

post-6361-0-44746300-1491649965_thumb.jpg

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Faster boats make a lap of a pacific to take in the west coast on option

 

Cape Town

Auckland

San fan

China

Brazil

New York

Lorient

Gothenburg

?

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Really disappointed that the VOR looks like continuing as a boring old one-design procession. No chance here for any aspiring young boat designers in the foreseeable future. Boatbuilding work only for a selected few. The established rich get richer, the up and coming young have no work. Well, that's globalisation for you.

 

The videos from Jack and Leo posted above are way more exciting than anything which came out of the last VOR.

Footage of the 70's was a bit more like it.

 

 

Really disappointed that the VOR looks like continuing as a boring old one-design procession.

 

Do you really think that if they go to multis that it will be back to open design or even a box rule?

 

No chance here for any aspiring young boat designers in the foreseeable future.

 

​Why not? Are aspiring young boat designers only designing monos? I suspect many designers would give their middle nut to scale up the semi-foiling IMOCAs we saw in the Vendee.

 

Boatbuilding work only for a selected few.

 

​To build grand prix multis there will probably be less boatbuilder options than monos.

 

The established rich get richer, the up and coming young have no work. Well, that's globalisation for you.

 

The fuck are you on about?

 

 

For someone that is so anti-VOR you rub your balls against this thread a lot.

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Faster boats make a lap of a pacific to take in the west coast on option

 

Cape Town

Auckland

San fan

China

Brazil

New York NEWPORT

Lorient

Gothenburg

?

 

 

FIXED IT FOR YOU!

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Excellent work Jack - many thanks

Great historic footage

Cheers

DD

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News from the frontpage and boat design.net
VOR race management is considering a switch to multihulls in the next edition:

(April 6, 2017) – While final preparations and team announcements continue for the Volvo Ocean Race 2017-18, the event’s leadership team are working in parallel to map out the race’s future.

The edition after this one, the 14th, will be contested in brand new One Design racing yachts designed by France’s Guillaume Verdier and built under the direction of the Persico boatyard in Italy, race organisers announced today.

Verdier has joined the Volvo Ocean Race Design Team and is currently working with the race on the crucial issue of whether the new boat will be a monohull or multihull. The final decision on the proposed designs will be announced on May 18 at an event in Gothenburg, the home of the race’s owners and title sponsors Volvo.

Verdier is the ‘quiet’ achiever who has been involved in most of the leading designs right across the sport in recent years – from giant multihulls like Gitana’s Maxi Edmond de Rothschild, to be launched in July, through Team New Zealand’s current America’s Cup flying multihulls to maxi-monohulls like Comanche, and the leading Vendée Globe IMOCA 60 foiling projects such as Hugo Boss and Banque Populaire VIII.

The monohull-multihull question is just one of a series of key decisions that will be finalised prior to the announcement. Together, the decisions will form the most radical shake-up of the Volvo Ocean Race since it began life in 1973 as the Whitbread Round the World Race.

“Conceived in 2011, the current fleet of boats was built to be competitive for two editions,” said Volvo Ocean Race CEO Mark Turner. “We need to move now on the future boats to keep all our options open on boat type and design.

“We’re excited to work with someone as talented as Guillaume Verdier – who will be a perfect complement to the wider Volvo Ocean Race Design Team, and the input we plan to have from a wider group of professional sailors and industry partners.”

A Consortium approach was used for the initial build of the Volvo Ocean 65s, but Nick Bice, the race’s Chief Technical Development Officer, said the preference this time was to contract with a single builder. “Persico have been a strong partner over these past few years, and we are delighted to be working with them again.”

The decision to continue with a One Design concept follows the introduction of the Volvo Ocean 65 monohull for the Volvo Ocean Race 2014-15, which produced the closest racing in the history of the event.

The upcoming edition, starting on October 22 2017 in Alicante, will use the same Volvo Ocean 65 boats that have since undergone a one million euro per boat refit process in the race’s Boatyard facility in Lisbon. These boats were designed to be fast enough and reliable enough to complete at least two laps of the planet at the highest level of professional racing, in a fully competitive and equal state.

The fleet of seven existing boats from 2014-15 will be supplemented by a brand new but still identical Volvo Ocean 65, commissioned by team AkzoNobel, for the 2017-18 race.

With more than six months still to go before the start, four teams have so far been announced. The remaining teams will be revealed over the coming months.

The race opted to go with Verdier after inviting input from half a dozen industry-leading yacht designers, including Farr Yacht Design, the team that kick-started the One Design era in the race by delivering the successful Volvo Ocean 65 project.

Verdier’s goal will be to lead the Volvo Ocean Race Design Team to build a new fleet to the same exacting levels of matched One Design achieved with the current boats, but very much connected to the big evolutions in foiling technology the world of sailing is currently seeing.

“We’re bringing together a wide-ranging depth of experience from events such as the America’s Cup, offshore multihulls and IMOCA Open 60 projects,” Verdier explained.

“We are starting from a blank page, and whatever kind of boat we design, whether it’s monohull or multihull, we will learn a lot from this process of working together.”

He continued: “I think sailors just want to have fun, and are attracted to a new way of sailing. In the Open 60, for example, we made something which was quite radical, but also very safe, and that’s key for the Volvo Ocean Race.”

Marcello Persico said the company was delighted to be building the next generation of Volvo Ocean Race boats.

“We’ve been working closely with the Volvo Ocean Race for the last eight years and we feel part of the family,” he said. “I believe that Persico Marine will deliver excellent support and service to the Volvo Ocean Race as it embarks on the next phase in its history.”

Source: Volvo Ocean Race

so I guess this new to be developed multi will be even faster then the MOD70?
Which is fast. Great.. Looking forward to see that.
Maybe even foiling multis!
PHAEDO_3.jpeg

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They've got the right guy this time in Verdier...He's made both mono's and multi's go faster, so whichever way they choose, the boats will be an upgrade. I agree that a good example of the potential multihull is the Mod 70 or, upping the game, the foiling Mod 70 Gitana/Masarati. On the monohull side, I don't see how jacking Hugo Boss up to 75', or so, will make it that much faster or require much more crew than Alex and 3 of his buddies.

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Not sure whether I would prefer to see Multi's or fully foiling Mono's. Sue multies will be faster, but as a spectacle, leading edge technology and differentiation, a foiling mono might be a better proposition.

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Not sure whether I would prefer to see Multi's or fully foiling Mono's. Sue multies will be faster, but as a spectacle, leading edge technology and differentiation, a foiling mono might be a better proposition.

 

Given that all most spectators see is on board video with a lotta spray flying around and icons moving on a tracker I'd venture to suggest that it may not actually matter...

 

the marine industry has a habit of assuming thta faster and higher tech = better and more compelling, and while that's very possibly the case to an informed audience of folk that happen to sail it may be of limited relevance to the commercially relevant audience. Americas Cup a case in point - it's not proven that foiling multis are more publicly appea;ling than dinosaurs.

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Not sure whether I would prefer to see Multi's or fully foiling Mono's. Sue multies will be faster, but as a spectacle, leading edge technology and differentiation, a foiling mono might be a better proposition.

 

Given that all most spectators see is on board video with a lotta spray flying around and icons moving on a tracker I'd venture to suggest that it may not actually matter...

 

The in port / coastal racing makes for good video and there will be drones...

 

Should be a fascinating design either way. Much as I love multis, I think there would be less attrition with the monos on the Volvo course.

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Not sure whether I would prefer to see Multi's or fully foiling Mono's. Sue multies will be faster, but as a spectacle, leading edge technology and differentiation, a foiling mono might be a better proposition.

 

 

the marine industry has a habit of assuming thta faster and higher tech = better and more compelling, and while that's very possibly the case to an informed audience of folk that happen to sail it may be of limited relevance to the commercially relevant audience. Americas Cup a case in point - it's not proven that foiling multis are more publicly appea;ling than dinosaurs.

 

 

 

I've been to both an America's Cup and an ESS with foiling cats and I have been to a VOR in-port race and I preferred the VOR by far. Also preferred the ESS before it was foiling.

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Was surprised to see someone somewhere suggest that Mark Turners history with ESS showed he was pro foiling. Didn't he flog the none foiling boats for as long as he could and then do a deal with Ernesto Bertarelli for ESS?

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They've got the right guy this time in Verdier...He's made both mono's and multi's go faster, so whichever way they choose, the boats will be an upgrade. I agree that a good example of the potential multihull is the Mod 70 or, upping the game, the foiling Mod 70 Gitana/Masarati. On the monohull side, I don't see how jacking Hugo Boss up to 75', or so, will make it that much faster or require much more crew than Alex and 3 of his buddies.

Well at least for the VOR he won't need to design a boat which goes faster than the competition. There won't be any!

The task will be the same as for any other series production sh***er.

Minimum manufacturing cost and a nice space to display the stickers.

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Not sure whether I would prefer to see Multi's or fully foiling Mono's. Sue multies will be faster, but as a spectacle, leading edge technology and differentiation, a foiling mono might be a better proposition.

 

 

the marine industry has a habit of assuming thta faster and higher tech = better and more compelling, and while that's very possibly the case to an informed audience of folk that happen to sail it may be of limited relevance to the commercially relevant audience. Americas Cup a case in point - it's not proven that foiling multis are more publicly appea;ling than dinosaurs.

 

 

 

I've been to both an America's Cup and an ESS with foiling cats and I have been to a VOR in-port race and I preferred the VOR by far. Also preferred the ESS before it was foiling.

 

I've seen foiling and non-foiling, I'll prefer the latter. I was at Valencia in 2007 for the last run of the AC dinosaurs and it was utterly spellbinding, that sort of cose quarter man-a-mano combat sinmply doesn't happen in foiling boats so there's a big element of spectacle missing in foiling boats.

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Not sure whether I would prefer to see Multi's or fully foiling Mono's. Sue multies will be faster, but as a spectacle, leading edge technology and differentiation, a foiling mono might be a better proposition.

 

 

the marine industry has a habit of assuming thta faster and higher tech = better and more compelling, and while that's very possibly the case to an informed audience of folk that happen to sail it may be of limited relevance to the commercially relevant audience. Americas Cup a case in point - it's not proven that foiling multis are more publicly appea;ling than dinosaurs.

 

 

 

I've been to both an America's Cup and an ESS with foiling cats and I have been to a VOR in-port race and I preferred the VOR by far. Also preferred the ESS before it was foiling.

 

I've seen foiling and non-foiling, I'll prefer the latter. I was at Valencia in 2007 for the last run of the AC dinosaurs and it was utterly spellbinding, that sort of cose quarter man-a-mano combat sinmply doesn't happen in foiling boats so there's a big element of spectacle missing in foiling boats.

 

I suspect that is only the case for the very few sailors who appreciate the poetry of close quarters big boat match racing. I was watching the 2013 AC in a bar in New York, after getting one TV out of about 20 changed from NFL and baseball I ended up explaining the AC and sailing to most of the bar (I can't believe how many had never heard of the Americas cup) I doubt that would have happened if still raced in monos.

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I dunno rawhide, we found a replay of the london Olympics match racing finals, and played it at the bar a few times. The people I was drinking with were right into it. I think if the same level of production tech as modern AC was thrown at dinosaur boats they could be just as compelling

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As they have already decided OD and will be continuing the 65 model of we build you buy ...then pounds to peanuts the decision in May will be a Foiling Mono aka IMOCA. They don't have pockets deep enough or the resources with that funding model to rebuild multi's at the end of every leg when they shit themselves.

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Some interesting comments from Rawhide and Rantifarian and spot on.

 

I think we undersell our sport to sponsors and public alike. You can do a "Volvo" for the cost of 1Formula One Grand Prix and instead of your brand out there for a weekend (at best) it is in the media (in several forms) for 8-9 months and on a 100' high billboard instead of something zooming past at 200 MPH

 

A Volvo sponsorship is NOT expensive as a means of marketing for the big corporates and gives an almost unequalled global opportunity to "press the flesh" with key accounts - not when you compare it to many other sports sponsorships.

 

I think part of the problem (if it is a problem) is that most sailors would rather be on the water doing it instead of home watching it (bound to get some innuendo type comments for that sentence)

 

And Terrorvision, I have to be honest - I too did prefer ESS when it was in the water instead of intermittent low flying. It appeared to be closer and more combative - just my perception though

 

SS

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Given that darts garners huge ratings, as does lawn bowls, spectacle isn't always (or even ever) the critical factor.

 

My view has always been that what matters is that the viewer can become involved. Sports where the viewer has had some experience or can see themselves being able to participate, even if only in a very notional manner help. It helps them to relate. Playing a sport as a young person tends to make people interested in it for the rest of their lives. Many many people played some form of football at some time. It isn't hard to relate to darts or snooker. And so on.

 

But getting a naive viewer interested in sailing is a harder ask. Ask a random friend or co-worker if sailing boats can sail faster than the wind, or even if they can sail towards the wind. You are up against a significant barrier in understanding. (Then again try explaining "off-side.")

 

The videos jack_sparrow posted above are brilliant. Why? Because they tell a story. It is a story of a time gone past, but brilliant non-the-less. IMHO the best VOR coverage is still by far and away that of the 2005 round. And there was almost zip off the boats. But there was the unvarnished reality of the race. Right down to near walk outs by the crew and the (sometimes grim) reality of how the race unfolded. Some of the most unforgettable moments in sailing. Since then we have got rock clips with close to zero content. Somehow the idea is that the coverage must be for the internet generation, but made by people who don't actually know what that generation is, or cares about.

 

It isn't going to matter what the boats are. It is such a minor component in what matters to the success of the race as to be noise. IMHO the last race was the least satisfying for one reason only. The procession like, playing the averages, risk averse tactics. OD didn't help that, but there are a number of ways that it can be fixed. OTOH, that there was minimal carnage, and the race didn't simply become a demolition derby like the previous round was a real plus. This coming round will see if they can fix the tactics problem. (IMHO I don't think they have done enough yet. The changes to the scoring are too minor.) One thing perhaps in favour of a multi is that the polars seem to be a lot more consistent, without the lumps and bumps of the fat arsed reaching machines. Maybe this will weaken the very tight spread of navigation options. Dunno about that, but we can hope.

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No need to wait until May 18th. On may 17th some intern is going to update the Volvo Ocean Race facebook page to have a trimaran at the top.

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Was surprised to see someone somewhere suggest that Mark Turners history with ESS showed he was pro foiling. Didn't he flog the none foiling boats for as long as he could and then do a deal with Ernesto Bertarelli for ESS?

 

 

Not really what happened

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The 'deal' with Ernesto' was actually a loan from several stakeholders to help OC (Turner's company) get through the worst of the GFC. Turner took a different tack with sponsorship after the loan and a reorg, growing income substantially and attracting the merger with ThirdPole, which is what allowed the loan to be paid back quickly.

 

Turner (and then his successor management) wanted to go foiling probably four years before they actually took the plunge. It took that long to get the teams and sponsors to fully buy into the new concept, in part because they needed the time to amortize their 40s (and to finally admit that they couldn't be fixed any more and still be OD!). They went GC32 despite the fact that they wanted a bespoke boat especially designed for the EXSS, and still do.

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I watched a set of videos on youtube today from the AC practice sessions. Blooper reels mainly and one thing struck me as I watched....how boring. Sure, they go real fast and the lift up out of the water, but with all that speed the only excitement seems to be the potential for them to crash. I clicked off or jumped ahead, but nope, still not that interested. I get that tactics are different, but back in the first multi-hulled AC I was bored after the first five minutes and it has not changed much. I'll take the 7 kt tacking duel, the port starboard crossings and even tight downwind situations in trucks of F1 style, we know who wins after the first lap.

Now we have the VOR contemplating multis and like SS's write up on the front page. I don't see the advantage. As another pointed out, it is not like we're seeing these boat sailing all the time on the ocean so the main sensation of speed would be looking at a map. I cannot conceive how folks can get a hard on noting the difference between an IMOCA 60 doing less than 100 miles greater in a 24 hour distance over the VO65 when there are soooo many other factors that go into making that number. Another mentioned the inport races, but again I would see it being less exciting, not more. 65+ foot multis are not going to duke it out for fear of damaging a boat they need to take around the world. It will be drag race tack, drag race tack finish. Yawn.

Watching the 32s roar around is exciting and that is where a niche has been found for larger foiling multis, but seriously, the 18's sailed in Oz still seem more exciting and they are those tired old monohulls. Sponsors want visibility, time in the face of humanity, but they don't want it upside down in the SO as much as they didn't want it piled on a reef. However, between the two the potential for death seems much higher on multis screaming through the SO. Since I don't like my sailing to be a blood sport, I'd prefer the VOR to stay monohull, but I can see adding Dali foils for they could change tactics and positions if/when they hit something.

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The videos jack_sparrow posted above are brilliant. Why? Because they tell a story. It is a story of a time gone past, but brilliant non-the-less. IMHO the best VOR coverage is still by far and away that of the 2005 round. And there was almost zip off the boats. But there was the unvarnished reality of the race. Right down to near walk outs by the crew and the (sometimes grim) reality of how the race unfolded. Some of the most unforgettable moments in sailing. Since then we have got rock clips with close to zero content. Somehow the idea is that the coverage must be for the internet generation, but made by people who don't actually know what that generation is, or cares about.

 

 

 

totally agree. And the saddest thing is that the excellent 2005-6 video coverage was done without the teams and their sponsors really understanding what was being filmed. Telefonica was extremely angry that a video came out about their issues on board and on shore. They wanted to ban it, but couldn't. Sadly enough, one of the reason we see zero interesting stuff is that the team and their sponsors stop it from appearing, e.g. in the two past editions we have had zero videos about discussions and tensions on board. Zero insights into the personalities of the sailors. Just action shots one after the other with no real content. (one exception maybe was Vestas, but we saw no shouting and blaming towards Wouter, which surely happened). Well, we'll see if this changes in this edition.

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They've got the right guy this time in Verdier...He's made both mono's and multi's go faster, so whichever way they choose, the boats will be an upgrade. I agree that a good example of the potential multihull is the Mod 70 or, upping the game, the foiling Mod 70 Gitana/Masarati. On the monohull side, I don't see how jacking Hugo Boss up to 75', or so, will make it that much faster or require much more crew than Alex and 3 of his buddies.

As soon as you don't allow an autopilot then that's 2-3 extra crew right there.

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The videos jack_sparrow posted above are brilliant. Why? Because they tell a story. It is a story of a time gone past, but brilliant non-the-less. IMHO the best VOR coverage is still by far and away that of the 2005 round. And there was almost zip off the boats. But there was the unvarnished reality of the race. Right down to near walk outs by the crew and the (sometimes grim) reality of how the race unfolded. Some of the most unforgettable moments in sailing. Since then we have got rock clips with close to zero content. Somehow the idea is that the coverage must be for the internet generation, but made by people who don't actually know what that generation is, or cares about.

 

 

 

totally agree. And the saddest thing is that the excellent 2005-6 video coverage was done without the teams and their sponsors really understanding what was being filmed. Telefonica was extremely angry that a video came out about their issues on board and on shore. They wanted to ban it, but couldn't. Sadly enough, one of the reason we see zero interesting stuff is that the team and their sponsors stop it from appearing, e.g. in the two past editions we have had zero videos about discussions and tensions on board. Zero insights into the personalities of the sailors. Just action shots one after the other with no real content. (one exception maybe was Vestas, but we saw no shouting and blaming towards Wouter, which surely happened). Well, we'll see if this changes in this edition.

 

We still got the crash itself and "WOUTER... WHERE'S WOUTER".... which is not bad for shouting IMO. :)

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