• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Recommended Posts

FWIW: Saw on a FB posting that Dee had mentioned SCA won't be doing the next edition.

 

really? Officially, SCA is taking a decision by the end of the year (after receiving the assessment of the last edition). Dee's comments on her latest blog-post are in line with that. The decision is not taken yet:

 

http://www.deecaffari.co.uk/en/news.php?a=Si-andiamo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

npf1 is right. Dee's blog post just says that the boat will go to Alicante and they do not know who will sail her next. The video is very clear that SCA have made the decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for sharing, Chasm. So despite not having an official statement yet, the crew has been notified that there is no second lap of the world for SCA. A pity.

 

VOR still struggles to have continuity with sponsors. The ROI seems to be still not in line for B2C companies like SCA, even despite the reduced cost of the boat (and the re-using for the next edition). Sure, the change of CEO at SCA last February has potentially not helped. (Like it happened with Alvimedica...).

 

I am sure Dee is going to be working hard to find sponsors for a campaign. Let's cross fingers for her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a bit of google after reading this thread. This certainly changes the view on Sam Davies decision to catch a ride on the on the IMOCAs ASAP.

 

 

SCA just released a new 25 min documentation of their VOR campaign. No word that they'll stop, it ends with the "We have learned so much. / This is just the beginning. / Next time we'll have an actual chance." outlook. Which is true as far as consensus on SA goes. (Consensus on SA? WTF! Someone call the thread police.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been sailing on a VO65 the day before yesterday in Genova, not important with which team.

It's too early for announcements... the volume of the last edition is still loud. Plug has been pulled at few teams. If a sponsor has not decided yet or now does not want to continue, this does not mean that decisions could not be changed. Remember that Almost all the team announcements for this past edition were made one year before the start.

There is only one team (not sponsor, but the team behind) that will continue sailing the VO65 looking for sponsors, Sailing Holland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KF tried to run the race like a TV reality show. It didn't work as a reality show because technically it wasn't well enough packaged for mass media viewing. Alicante portrayal of the racing was excruciatingly awful, positively painful to try and watch. We saw little or nothing of what was really going on on the boats despite all the OBRs. All the output to the public just stank of censorship and kow-towing to sponsor demands. The rules were incomprehensible. The IJ decisions were arbitrary and unfair. SCA dominated with a huge promotional spend pretending to be supporting women's sailing but actually they were simply exploiting the women for the marketing and press attention they knew they would get. Now it's over all the girls who stayed with the project are sacked! No future VOR campaign for them.

The boats are slow, heavy, and no fun to sail and if you know what you are looking at that is pretty obvious. No wonder some of the sailors have come out and said so!

Allowing Vestas to run onto the reef was not exactly a triumph for a race control with virtually real time info from all the boats 24-7, and blaming the wrong guy for the wrong reasons left a bad taste in many sailors mouths.

The only fun campaign was Dong Feng, no surprise there with Mark Turner and Charles Caudrelier involved. Biggest achievement, Sam Davies win in the leg to Lorient.

 

Result; sponsors and sailors are not exactly beating the door down to enter the next edition and KF has left any successor a huge task to rescue the event. If there is one at all, lets hope it will be very different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think RM was always a non-starter. Whilst I don't think anyone quite envisaged the sweet spot being found at such a large angle of heel, the intent of the lower RM was realised.

 

But 500kg mass saving? That is a pretty big saving.

 

Systems and sails - both will be interesting to see what changes happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe they could add some moustache foils, if that turns out to be a success on the Imocas. Regarding weight savings, they were mostly mentioning media equipment. Not sure if it adds up to 500 though, even with fuel and batteries included. Solar panels were also discussed, so perhaps a smaller generator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe they could add some moustache foils, if that turns out to be a success on the Imocas. Regarding weight savings, they were mostly mentioning media equipment. Not sure if it adds up to 500 though, even with fuel and batteries included. Solar panels were also discussed, so perhaps a smaller generator.

 

 

That doesn't bode well for improved media coverage!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Maybe they could add some moustache foils, if that turns out to be a success on the Imocas. Regarding weight savings, they were mostly mentioning media equipment. Not sure if it adds up to 500 though, even with fuel and batteries included. Solar panels were also discussed, so perhaps a smaller generator.

 

 

That doesn't bode well for improved media coverage!

 

 

It's not about how much equipment you have, it's about how you use it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

indeed, a girls team is a magnet for the audience. Volvo would love to have another girls' squad.

 

Anyhow, One Design & all we have no confirmed teams for the next edition. Clean mentions in the SCA threat that 5 boats from the past edition are free to purchase. Besides the Dutch (Sailing Holland), who are the ones keeping the boat?

 

Here my list on potential teams & people looking for sponsors:

 

- OmanSail (heavily dependent on having the Middle East stopover)

- Italian (50%/50% chance, Knut dixit)

- Russian (Gazprom - always a potential team)

- Spanish (Mapfre... or whomever can use the Spanish tax break)

- American (Charlie & Mark)

- Scandinavian

- Dee & girls

- High Aspect (Ian Walker & Jamie Boag)

 

No repeats from last time: Alvi, SCA

Unknowns: Abu Dhabi (likely not), Dong (Volvo pushing again this time?), Vestas, Mapfre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like the teams are mostly from Europe again. Would be nice to see some some South American and African teams in the race

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's perennial bluster from Team Ghana but it's just a scam or a team spinning its wheels but going nowhere and having endless meetings with bureaucrats but not making any actual attempts at finding sponsorship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's perennial bluster from Team Ghana but it's just a scam or a team spinning its wheels but going nowhere and having endless meetings with bureaucrats but not making any actual attempts at finding sponsorship.

Yes, been following them on fb. Not too sure about what they're trying to achieve. I guess for now at least South Africa would be the only realistic option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Announcement coming any minute now...

Official Press Release:
VOLVO OCEAN RACE NEWPORT ANNOUNCEMENT EXPECTED IN FIFTEEN MINUTES
WATCH LIVE ON PERISCOPE
Download Periscope to your smartphone:
EVENT WEBSITE
Volvo Ocean Race Newport Stopover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Confirmation of what we all heard at Itajai.

 

Officially means there is a release of some kind. Have you seen one?


Alvi is officially out. New management is not on board with the program. So we have 2 used boats and 3 new ones up for grabs

 

4 used boats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Confirmation of what we all heard at Itajai.

 

Officially means there is a release of some kind. Have you seen one?

Alvi is officially out. New management is not on board with the program. So we have 2 used boats and 3 new ones up for grabs

 

4 used boats

 

 

...are the new ones in build yet? :mellow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would be nice to see some some South American and African teams in the race

 

There's perennial bluster from Team Ghana but it's just a scam or a team spinning its wheels but going nowhere and having endless meetings with bureaucrats but not making any actual attempts at finding sponsorship.

Yes, been following them on fb. Not too sure about what they're trying to achieve. I guess for now at least South Africa would be the only realistic option.

 

 

 

 

yeh, sure....I hear the Somali's are thinking of entering :mellow:

 

p06_17942093.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wolfpack Racing team are trying to putt together a Norwegian teams for the next Volvo Ocean Race. they have even bougth old camper. might be that KF wil put in som effert to get them going. Oslo wants to take over after Alicante as a start port.

https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/t31.0-8/11893854_900390609997306_838811950169852926_o.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

any news or rumors on the new CEO and potential teams' front? It is always very quiet after the race, but this time it is extremely quiet! I just heard that Oman Sail is out as a potential team (and I guess also as potential stopover). And that Hong-Kong could be the Chinese stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeronimoll, have to correct you there that Hong Kong - in the eyes of Mainland Chinese - would be a "Chinese" stop.

 

I reckon if you spoke to 100 Mainland Chinese, 99 would not consider Hong Kong the same as China. Mainland Chinese even need a visa 'of sorts' to visit there.

 

Just my opinion from living, working and sailing here for more than 15 years.

 

SS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a nice interview with Walker.

 

Abu Dhabi to decide this January if they participate in the next round. (Maybe Volvo is waiting for their decision, to decide on the next CEO... if no ADOR, Ian would be free for the spot. Wishful thinking from my side...)

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9176_A-vintage-year.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a VOR quiz this new years eve on twitter:

post-17796-0-58987200-1451803936_thumb.png

https://twitter.com/volvooceanrace?lang=nl

12 questions: (Right answers underlined)

 

1) The Volvo Ocean Race has a long and prestigious history. What edition was the 2014-15 Race?

a 11 th

b 12 th

c 14 th

d 15 th

 

2) Cast your minds back: which team won the Alicante In-Port Race?

 

a Alvimedica

b Vestas

c Brunel

d ADOR

 

3) What's the name of the famous mountain that the fleet raced in front of to begin Leg 2?

a Mount Everest

b Mont Blanc

c Table mountain

 

4) Dongfeng Race Team finished fourth in their homecoming Leg 3 from Abu Dhabi to China?

a True

b False

 

5) 2014-15's winning skipper, @ADORlog's Ian Walker, has competed in the Volvo Ocean Race how many times?

a 1

b 3

c 4

d 5

 

6) The @team_sca Leg 8 win in Lorient made them the first all-female team to win a #VOR leg in how long?

a 8 years

b 15 years

c 25 years

d 40 years

 

7) The Southern Ocean is notoriously tough. Which team was first to round the infamous Cape Horn during Leg 5?
a Alvimedica
b Brunel
c Mapfre
d SCA
8) Roughly how many calories do the sailors burn onboard each day? Tip: it’s the same as 12 rump steaks!
a 2000
b 6000
c 2500
d 3500
9) Which team won the epic Auckland In-Port Race, in the shadow of the Harbour Bridge?
a Brunel
b Alvimedica
c SCA
d Mapfre
10) In which stopover did team Vestas rejoin the race after an incredible comeback journey?
a Lisbon
b Newport
11) Which Dutch city gave team Brunel and the rest of the fleet an unforgettable welcome during Leg 8?
a Amsterdam
b The Hague
c Rotterdam
12) How many nationalities made up Ador's winning crew in total (throughout the 2014-15 edition, inc. OBR)?
a 2
b 5
c 8
d 10

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a nice interview with Walker.

 

Abu Dhabi to decide this January if they participate in the next round. (Maybe Volvo is waiting for their decision, to decide on the next CEO... if no ADOR, Ian would be free for the spot. Wishful thinking from my side...)

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9176_A-vintage-year.html

Yes, indeed interesting. Going forward, there will be a lot of considerations wrt the route, in port races and the boat itself. Also, shorthanded wasn't discussed. Maybe an idea would be to have semi full crewed boats to save money? perhaps four or six instead of eight. For the fans, I guess some sort of design freedom would at least give us more to speculate about.

 

Edit: One additional thing. I think that the number of boats is not necessarily too important. The Jules Verne race kind of showed that even two boats is enough to make it exciting, although they kind of screw up a bit by not acknowledging each others effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

a nice interview with Walker.

 

Abu Dhabi to decide this January if they participate in the next round. (Maybe Volvo is waiting for their decision, to decide on the next CEO... if no ADOR, Ian would be free for the spot. Wishful thinking from my side...)

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9176_A-vintage-year.html

Yes, indeed interesting. Going forward, there will be a lot of considerations wrt the route, in port races and the boat itself. Also, shorthanded wasn't discussed. Maybe an idea would be to have semi full crewed boats to save money? perhaps four or six instead of eight. For the fans, I guess some sort of design freedom would at least give us more to speculate about.

 

Edit: One additional thing. I think that the number of boats is not necessarily too important. The Jules Verne race kind of showed that even two boats is enough to make it exciting, although they kind of screw up a bit by not acknowledging each others effort.

 

True, I am waiting for a foiling multihull Volvo Ocean Race.

One tiny problem..It has to be developed yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Facebook announcement on the Alvi page that Mark and Charlie will be continuing on in 2016 with 11th Hour Racing as their title sponsor. Looks like the new team name is 55 South. 55south.us

 

Looks like a paper team for now, just looking for sponsors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that Volvo have a taste of racing on the cheap using 65's, it is difficult seeing them or any one supporting a return to using grand prix RtW boats. However they will have to do something to stay relevant in the boat department, otherwise the event will die.

 

There must be something in the "middle ground" which is relevant if you regard Clipper trucks at one end and IMOCA's at the other end of the field.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7-10 teams, 6 crew, 70 feet boats "Imoca like", but better upwind, if route requires, 12 tons .... Just Food for thought :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ that would work.

 

no talk of bigger bulbs on the 65? seems like a no brainer, boat is sort of a brick but at least it could be powered up. makes me think of the VO60's, not extreme, but still really good boats that were fun to sail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At last there seems to be some concensus that the 65s were dull boats. Heavy, slow, badly shaped dogs and if you power them up with a heavy lead bulb they will be even slower in light airs and in heavy breeze they will likely shake the existing rig and structure to bits, so where would you stop with modifications?

The answer is simple. Forget one-design, go back to the old 70 rule or very similar. Those were fast exciting boats and the racing was extreme and interesting. Top crews will want to sail them. The race will be spectacular to follow, especially if one Mr Turner replaces Knut.

By now designers must know the boat needs to be able to finish with a mast and keel!

Put no restriction on crew numbers. Let the skipper decide how many people he or she wants on board. This will mean there is no barrier to women. Skippers and designers can gear the running rig to suit the crewing they have in mind, all part of the tactics to make the fastest crewed RTW monohull.

 

A cheapskate race is a boring race!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You sponsoring a team then?

 

Knut was was quite clear about why the 65s were chosen. There wasn't the money out there. Without cost savings the race would not happen. Not much has changed on the world financial side since then. The intent was two rounds of the VOR with them. And that is what we will get. Knut even suggested that multihulls might be on the radar after that.

 

To describe the 65s as slow is ridiculous. Only compared to some of the 70s and super maxis are they slow. They would keep pace wth 70s on some points of sail. The design was very deliberate. They were designed not to break, and they did a very good job of that. The 70s would fall apart endangering the crew, and the peanut gallery here and elsewhere would rev up with the usual stuff about the latest VOR disaster. Even the tenderness of the 65's design was a deliberate design element. It wasn't a mistake or incompetence. There were unseen consequences - nobody had worked out ahead of time that there was a sweet spot for speed at a very high heel angle, and the "cosmetic" bow design was a silly mistake.

 

Make no mistake - I love the 70s. Magnificent machines that they are. But they were not a happy class for a full RWT race, and eventually would have killed the race.They won't be back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would it be plausible if the VOR was Monos every 4 years with Multi's in the opposing 4 year period so every two years there was a major RTWR?

 

Personally, I still find myself looking back at VO70 videos on YouTube. Don't think I have once looked back on the 65's. Was there even a race documentary after the last edition? I have trawled through YouTube without luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You sponsoring a team then?

 

Knut was was quite clear about why the 65s were chosen. There wasn't the money out there. Without cost savings the race would not happen. Not much has changed on the world financial side since then. The intent was two rounds of the VOR with them. And that is what we will get. Knut even suggested that multihulls might be on the radar after that.

 

To describe the 65s as slow is ridiculous. Only compared to some of the 70s and super maxis are they slow. They would keep pace wth 70s on some points of sail. The design was very deliberate. They were designed not to break, and they did a very good job of that. The 70s would fall apart endangering the crew, and the peanut gallery here and elsewhere would rev up with the usual stuff about the latest VOR disaster. Even the tenderness of the 65's design was a deliberate design element. It wasn't a mistake or incompetence. There were unseen consequences - nobody had worked out ahead of time that there was a sweet spot for speed at a very high heel angle, and the "cosmetic" bow design was a silly mistake.

 

Make no mistake - I love the 70s. Magnificent machines that they are. But they were not a happy class for a full RWT race, and eventually would have killed the race.They won't be back.

+1

The last VOR gave some of the closest ocean racing we've seen. . . even if the Farr design was not as flashy as the Juan K's of the previous edition. So many leader changes from race to race, and no one team saddled with a dog.

 

The Juan K's of that edition (Groupama and Telefonica in Australia; Puma in the US too, I think ) are still doing well, but the chance for a OD fleet of JKs is past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You sponsoring a team then?

 

Knut was was quite clear about why the 65s were chosen. There wasn't the money out there. Without cost savings the race would not happen. Not much has changed on the world financial side since then. The intent was two rounds of the VOR with them. And that is what we will get. Knut even suggested that multihulls might be on the radar after that.

 

To describe the 65s as slow is ridiculous. Only compared to some of the 70s and super maxis are they slow. They would keep pace wth 70s on some points of sail. The design was very deliberate. They were designed not to break, and they did a very good job of that. The 70s would fall apart endangering the crew, and the peanut gallery here and elsewhere would rev up with the usual stuff about the latest VOR disaster. Even the tenderness of the 65's design was a deliberate design element. It wasn't a mistake or incompetence. There were unseen consequences - nobody had worked out ahead of time that there was a sweet spot for speed at a very high heel angle, and the "cosmetic" bow design was a silly mistake.

 

Make no mistake - I love the 70s. Magnificent machines that they are. But they were not a happy class for a full RWT race, and eventually would have killed the race.They won't be back.

You must be a very loyal Farr fan FV!

 

If I had the money to sponsor a team with a 65 I would not waste my money.

 

If I had the money to sponsor a team with a new 70 of my own designer choice I would sure love to spend it that way, and I reckon i would get a great return.

 

I have talked with quite a few folk who have sailed both 65s and 70s including a couple of skippers and they all say the 65s are slow and one guy said more than a ton too heavy already.

 

Why is it you cannot believe that designers can learn from past mistakes and that technological progress of a good kind is actually achieveble?

 

I like to see design and engineering going forwards, not backwards,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The last VOR gave some of the closest ocean racing we've seen. . . even if the Farr design was not as flashy as the Juan K's of the previous edition. So many leader changes from race to race, and no one team saddled with a dog.

 

The Juan K's of that edition (Groupama and Telefonica in Australia; Puma in the US too, I think ) are still doing well, but the chance for a OD fleet of JKs is past.

 

yes, when you have all dogs, they are called a pack and they run like one. All at the same speed, the performance limit of the dog design, and its not as much fun to watch as a real race.

 

The last thing I want to see is another OD.

 

I want to see design progress and interesting racing and at the moment IMOCA is where its at and somehow money is being found for it..

 

You cannot be taken seriously calling it "life at the extreme" if you purposely sail it with a single design which is intentionally conservative!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The last VOR gave some of the closest ocean racing we've seen. . . even if the Farr design was not as flashy as the Juan K's of the previous edition. So many leader changes from race to race, and no one team saddled with a dog.

 

The Juan K's of that edition (Groupama and Telefonica in Australia; Puma in the US too, I think ) are still doing well, but the chance for a OD fleet of JKs is past.

 

yes, when you have all dogs, they are called a pack and they run like one. All at the same speed, the performance limit of the dog design, and its not as much fun to watch as a real race.

 

The last thing I want to see is another OD.

 

I want to see design progress and interesting racing and at the moment IMOCA is where its at and somehow money is being found for it..

 

You cannot be taken seriously calling it "life at the extreme" if you purposely sail it with a single design which is intentionally conservative!

 

Of course you can, it is a strap line for selling to the public who never normally step outside their comfort zone. It is like the AC saying the fastest boats and the fastest sailors when Paul Larson was somewhere else...irrelevant to the story telling.

 

If you are happy to spend at least twice the budget in order to have a story that covers the design side (that mostly does not get talked about outside of these forums) then good for you. However, there are not enough sponsors out there for whom that appeals. Without the 65s (which I do not like but understand) there would not have been the last edition and there will not be a next edition.

 

Yes, you loved the 70s, but if you think a new edition of similar design freedom would not lead to the same failure rate then you are kidding yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the sponsors the 65s reduced costs significantly and the return was about the same, if not higher. If you went to those same sponsors and said the costs would double and the return would be less do you think we would have another race?

Yes the guys who sailed the 70s and 65s preferred the 70s. I would prefer a Porsche to a Volvo if someone offers to buy me a car. But at the end of the day 550nm in 24 hours is faster than the vast majority of us have ever sailed. And isn't exactly slow.

And Francis, 28 degrees was always known to be the optimum heel angle. The boats are meant to be easy to sail, but hard to sail well, and this heel angle makes the best use of the inclined keel pin with the cant angle limited to 40 degrees, which was thought to be the best practical limit.

From the sponsors perspective the 65s are a massive imporvement on the 70s. And when the VIPs went out for a play they always came back with huge grins. I hate to say it, but that matters a lot more than whether the sailors enjoyed it more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So to design a successful RTW race boat you have to design a slow old dog that no one likes? Talk about a pessimistic outlook! What an exciting future for the sailing world!

 

Not the current IMOCA trend, thankfully!..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So to design a successful RTW race boat you have to design a slow old dog that no one likes? Talk about a pessimistic outlook! What an exciting future for the sailing world!

 

Not the current IMOCA trend, thankfully!..

Absolutely no one above has said that.

However, do you think that VOR would exist if there was a 30-60% drop out rate on every leg as there is in IMOCA?

 

The VO65s are not here forever, they are here to keep the race alive at a difficult time. However, the decision to change to more open design will be a hard one to sell when you consider the failure rate of the 70s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it is time to transcribe this slide from the Boatyard presentation by Nick Bice during METSTRADE 2015.

VOR campain cost over the years. Both average over all teams and the winner, in millions.

97/98  9 - 12 [W60]
01/02 13 - 18 
05/06 17 - 25 [VO70]
08/09 26 - 50
11/12 24 - 30
14/15 12 - ?

Rough transcription only, anyone got the slide deck?

 

Going OD and offering the Boatyard managed to cut cost in half over the already constrained previous round, or roll cost back by almost 2 decades. From all the various interviews and presentations it looks like 17/18 will be the same but even more turn key, after that we'll see what happens.

 

Looks like there were additional presentations at the Yacht Racing Forum but that conference is either highly secret insider stuff or just plain stupid in their media company selection. No conference recordings, not even the keynote. Only a few sound bites, mostly Knut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The IMOCA class is heavily driven by the French market and the solo aspect keeps operating costs dramatically down. So the boat is about the same cost as a VOR65 but the crew costs and shore crew costs are dramatically reduced as they only race a few times a year and 1 pinnacle race. Comparing the VOR and the Vendee Globe is not a great comparison as they are very disparate.

 

Claiming the boats to be dogs and slow is not a very accurate statement as it is only when you compare them to a larger boat or a multihull are they slower. I would imagine for example that a VOR65 would beat a IMOCA upwind with only the latest foil borne design beating them reaching or running assuming similar crewing levels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

any news on the CEO front? When announced, Knut was supposed to stay until Dec 31st. Is he staying longer? And about the teams? Along with SCA, I believe Vestas wanted to decide before Xmas if they go ahead again. Everyone is sitting on the fence, I reckon. With this (sponsor) attitude, we should be happy to have the 7 current VO65 participating again in 2017 (with no new boats).

 

On the OD discussion, despite being a close race, it was extremely dull. Only the start and arrivals mattered, all in between was boring. And thank God Vestas crash happened. I made for a great sideline story to fill up the void. Imagine without it!

 

Tricky times ahead for the new CEO. Despite OD and lower budgets, it is still dammed difficult to find sponsors for the VOR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it was "dull," I would say it was because of the media delivery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The IMOCA class is heavily driven by the French market and the solo aspect keeps operating costs dramatically down. So the boat is about the same cost as a VOR65 but the crew costs and shore crew costs are dramatically reduced as they only race a few times a year and 1 pinnacle race. Comparing the VOR and the Vendee Globe is not a great comparison as they are very disparate.

 

Claiming the boats to be dogs and slow is not a very accurate statement as it is only when you compare them to a larger boat or a multihull are they slower. I would imagine for example that a VOR65 would beat a IMOCA upwind with only the latest foil borne design beating them reaching or running assuming similar crewing levels.

I don't follow your reasoning here. If the operating costs to enter the VOR are much higher than for an IMOCA campaign, that should mean the capital cost of the boat itself for a VOR campaign is less important in the oveall picture, than the cost of an IMOCA.

 

I think you are suggesting the VOR is actually a "bigger deal" than an IMOCA campaign? If that is what you are saying, surely it justifies spending more on a VOR boat, not less.

 

Take the SCA campaign as an example. I bet what they paid to buy the boat, less what they get back when they dispose of it, will be a very very small fraction of their overall expenditure.

 

The "cheap boat" is only going to be a deciding factor for a sponsor who is really struggling even to afford to enter the event at all. Are those sponsors really worth the effort for Volvo, e.g. they can't afford to put on a decent show at all the stopovers?

 

Does the VOR want to attract sponsors spending like Alvimedica? or sponsors spending like SCA?

 

My real worry is that unless VOR can attract sponsors big enough not to be worrying about boat cost, the whole race will be down the pan.

 

..... and it is the skippers and crews of these boats who have said they are slow. These are guys who have sailed 70s, 65s and IMOCAs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point was more that without the French there would be no IMOCA class and no Vendee Globe. Holding this class up as a role model for offshore racing and the VOR without acknowledging the background to this event is not very fair on other events. The wage costs of these teams also makes it more affordable. You are only paying for 1 skipper and a training partner full time and a shore staff. Therefore the budgets can be a lot cheaper from a campaign perspective than the VOR and French corporations which are often very local to a French region and relatively small companies versus the sponsorship values being spent.

 

Maybe a VOR with 4 crew which did not have any in ports would be a goer. This would bring a lot of the human stories back into it particularly if it followed a more classical route. I am not too keen on the current routes which are heavily driven by global companies or countries sponsoring the boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe they should use Imocas in VOR too. Of course the deck layout etc needs to be updated for fully crewed sailing. Would be cheap to enter as there already are so many boats available

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it was "dull," I would say it was because of the media delivery.

Newest movie trailer release that pulls sold out movie theaters in Europe:

The footage of the Brunel campaign in the last VOR.

Titled: When boys became men.

 

And can someone remind me how embedded videos are edited?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxLoW3d2aU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point was more that without the French there would be no IMOCA class and no Vendee Globe. Holding this class up as a role model for offshore racing and the VOR without acknowledging the background to this event is not very fair on other events. The wage costs of these teams also makes it more affordable. You are only paying for 1 skipper and a training partner full time and a shore staff. Therefore the budgets can be a lot cheaper from a campaign perspective than the VOR and French corporations which are often very local to a French region and relatively small companies versus the sponsorship values being spent.

 

Maybe a VOR with 4 crew which did not have any in ports would be a goer. This would bring a lot of the human stories back into it particularly if it followed a more classical route. I am not too keen on the current routes which are heavily driven by global companies or countries sponsoring the boats.

What you say is all very true, and indeed a crewed Open Class monohull race with no, of far fewer, stops might be viable and certainly much cheaper to enter than the VOR. From the sponsor viewpoint though, why incur the cost of travel and accommodation of support staff to a stopover if you cannot get any benefit at the location from promotional activity? In-port racing is a prime spectacle for the sponsors to show off at.

 

The "selling point" for the VOR, and what made it "special" was that it was a "big international sporting event", With multiple stopovers giving worldwide promotional opportunities for the sponsors. It is obviously inherently a very expensive event to enter and the cost of the boat isn't the determining factor. It only makes sense for me for big multinational companies with big advertising and promotional budgets to sponsor entrants anyway otherwise the cost, mainly of getting an army of support staff and management types to all the stopovers for doing the promotional work, is not going to be justifiable.

 

The attraction for the public and audience in the past has been that it has without question been an extreme, and not to mince words, dangerous and exciting event, sailed by top crews in very fast boats which were at the forefront of design, and that is why before 2014/5 it was such a superb spectacle to follow.

 

Also that was why the VOR was one of the top rites of passage which professional sailors wanted on their CVs.

 

If this scene is no longer on offer and instead the race is sailed in de-powered cheap boats with no progress in design; in boats which are all the same and actually go slower than previous ones!, and on restricted routes dictated by a "health and safety" management style, the whole ethos of the event as an extreme exciting sport is de-valued, and I cannot see it surviving. Why would any big multinational want to be associated with this new ethos? I certainly wouldn't!

 

It doesn't matter which country runs a race. What matters is the challenge and image of the race itself, and definitely the Vendee Globe and the other IMOCA races are now the "top spot" for fast monohull racing and design, and the VOR with the 65s is fading into the background.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom Touber steps down as VOR Race Director. He stays involved in the VOR for The Netherlands trying to push Simeon Tienpont as skipper for a new VO65. He wants to bundle the 3 Dutch initiatives into one effort. And he wants to sell the Brunel boat to another team. Tienpont is already under contract for the next AC, which coincides in 2017 with the next VOR. So pushing this seems a bit strange to me.

 

The Hague has put in a bid as 24 hours-stopover like in the last edition.

 

Source (in Dutch).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom Touber steps down as VOR Race Director. He stays involved in the VOR for The Netherlands trying to push Simeon Tienpont as skipper for a new VO65. He wants to bundle the 3 Dutch initiatives into one effort. And he wants to sell the Brunel boat to another team. Tienpont is already under contract for the next AC, which coincides in 2017 with the next VOR. So pushing this seems a bit strange to me.

 

The Hague has put in a bid as 24 hours-stopover like in the last edition.

 

Source (in Dutch).

 

Interesting and confusing. Looks like a new org chart and profiles needed for the VOR site, which still lists Tom Touber as Chief Operating Officer http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/join-us.htmland http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/people/325_Tom-Touber.html

 

Herman, google translates "zegde" as "terminated". Your "steps down" seems more accurate. True? Not sure, too, when Touber voted against Brunel's sponsorship of the VOR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks, Herman. I guess the new CEO shall be announced shortly then, and he/she did not want Touber around. (Maybe he wanted the top post, too).

 

Interesting his comments about Tienpont and the lack of mentioning Bouwe Bekking (Maybe Bouwe as Team Director and Tienpont as late coming CEO (after the Cup finishes?!? - too tight IMO). Also interesting the comment of requiring a new boat and their aim to sell the current Brunel one to a new team.... if the boats are One Design, does it really matter if you have a new or an old boat?!?!

 

On Knut, he has been appearing lots on Spanish press and radio this past week. Volvo is trying to extend their contract with the Alicante/Valencia government to stay beyond 2018. The current contract that includes HQ and start of the race ends by then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Tom Touber steps down as VOR Race Director. He stays involved in the VOR for The Netherlands trying to push Simeon Tienpont as skipper for a new VO65. He wants to bundle the 3 Dutch initiatives into one effort. And he wants to sell the Brunel boat to another team. Tienpont is already under contract for the next AC, which coincides in 2017 with the next VOR. So pushing this seems a bit strange to me.

 

The Hague has put in a bid as 24 hours-stopover like in the last edition.

 

Source (in Dutch).

 

Interesting and confusing. Looks like a new org chart and profiles needed for the VOR site, which still lists Tom Touber as Chief Operating Officer http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/join-us.htmland http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/people/325_Tom-Touber.html

 

Herman, google translates "zegde" as "terminated". Your "steps down" seems more accurate. True? Not sure, too, when Touber voted against Brunel's sponsorship of the VOR.

 

 

Stief, the sentence in Dutch "Touber zegde na 3,5 jaar zijn baan als racedirecteur op om die droom na te jagen." is in English:

 

"Touber quitted after 3,5 years his job as race director to pursue that dream."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks, Herman. I guess the new CEO shall be announced shortly then, and he/she did not want Touber around. (Maybe he wanted the top post, too).

 

Interesting his comments about Tienpont and the lack of mentioning Bouwe Bekking (Maybe Bouwe as Team Director and Tienpont as late coming CEO (after the Cup finishes?!? - too tight IMO). Also interesting the comment of requiring a new boat and their aim to sell the current Brunel one to a new team.... if the boats are One Design, does it really matter if you have a new or an old boat?!?!

 

On Knut, he has been appearing lots on Spanish press and radio this past week. Volvo is trying to extend their contract with the Alicante/Valencia government to stay beyond 2018. The current contract that includes HQ and start of the race ends by then.

Indeed, that bit about buying a new VO65 boat does not make sense, unless you have very deep pockets (EUR 1 or 2 million or something) and cannot use the current Brunel boat for whatever reason. That VO65 is currently being sailed by Sailing Holland. On their facebook page they posted on January 1st as 2016 goal; "Modifying the boat for the Volvo Ocean Race 2017-18".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Translated letter from Tom Touber.

Ambition, Reality & Secret
It was nice to see that most people have responded positively in the Netherlands
news that I leave the Volvo Ocean Race and go help a good team
Dutch origin to get the start.
With all the talent in our country, the knowledge in the maritime industry and also the passion of the
Dutch people it should be possible to design a project which left nothing to chance
is left. After the great success of the Hague pitstop last year and the enthusiasm in
the business community to support the hope that we have a top project in the comers months
can be realized.
Ambition
How could it be cool if we just like time with Team ABN AMRO uncompromising project
can do. Early start preparing, top sailors, top coaches and each stone three times
turn on the way to the start for every advantage we see to be able to take out. In these
ambitious approach employs a new generation of sailors supported by super
specialists and the experience of the last generation of top sailors in our country. In a
uncompromising project is also training with a first generation boat and its construction
of a new one.
All this for nothing, but then also to leave nothing to chance.
Reality
How nice and solid the ambitious plans are, we must also be realistic. There is a
price to uncompromising work. If we organize it at the higher price Hollands
not huge, but every euro must be covered by the partners and sponsors. That 1.5
million that this does not cost extra per year seems a lot, but might be a bridge too far.
It is important also to keep a realistic glasses on and prepare for us also to a
realistic project which (unfortunately) concessions should be made. If it was not feasible
prove to be all the stones three times to turn it may be that we need to decide
things to do and not all six. Of course we choose for those items that the least
impact on performance. It could be that we should forget the new boat (the
refit of the first generation is indeed super professionally done and there is no actual evidence
that this boat is less than a new one). It may also be that we have a little less time to
to prepare. Difficult decisions, but perhaps necessary.
But to me it is still not to the point we need to make concessions. Lets start with
are all as boaters in the Netherlands enter the lobby in the business fully to
compromise to appear at the start.
Secret
If you get the chance to lobby in your network for the Dutch team, you remember that you
Most managers and marketing managers a "secret tip"'re giving.
I know that for many potential sponsors unfortunately the image prevails that sponsoring a
Volvo Ocean Race team is very very expensive and runs into the tens of millions. No wonder they
then opt for sponsoring the FC Groningen and AZ.
If you know the facts you know, that a title sponsor for the upcoming Volvo Ocean Race
boat will cost you the same as sponsoring a league table in the Eredivisie football. They believe you
not because they see that our project achieves international recognition, brings passion and
an adventure in the marketing and last but not least, there are millions of spectators and VIPs. Much
more and on a much larger scale than the aforementioned league teams.
If you have a good lead, a chance to see if somewhere this Product typical picture would resign
are beautiful. With more than one million boaters in the Netherlands we have this competition
just win.
Hopefully we can do it !!
If we don't succeed in finding a sponsor it will be the end of the Dutch Campaign.
Will Abu Dhabi defend their title?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the sponsors the 65s reduced costs significantly and the return was about the same, if not higher. If you went to those same sponsors and said the costs would double and the return would be less do you think we would have another race?

Yes the guys who sailed the 70s and 65s preferred the 70s. I would prefer a Porsche to a Volvo if someone offers to buy me a car. But at the end of the day 550nm in 24 hours is faster than the vast majority of us have ever sailed. And isn't exactly slow.

And Francis, 28 degrees was always known to be the optimum heel angle. The boats are meant to be easy to sail, but hard to sail well, and this heel angle makes the best use of the inclined keel pin with the cant angle limited to 40 degrees, which was thought to be the best practical limit.

From the sponsors perspective the 65s are a massive imporvement on the 70s. And when the VIPs went out for a play they always came back with huge grins. I hate to say it, but that matters a lot more than whether the sailors enjoyed it more.

Big news: Boat entry cost slashed by half, confirms PwC report.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/presszone/en/3458_Boat-entry-costs-slashed-by-half-confirms-PwC-report.html

At a time when rival major global sports events are struggling to contain spiralling costs, a report by independent auditors PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) has praised sailing’s premier round-the-world event, the Volvo Ocean Race, for halving the price of competing for sponsors (full story below).

- Sponsors’ costs drop by half to enter

- Improved reliability and efficiency highlighted

- Ninety per cent of maintenance ‘proactive rather than reactive’

ALICANTE, Spain, February 4 – At a time when rival major global sports events are struggling to contain spiralling costs, a report by independent auditors PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) has praised sailing’s premier round-the-world event, the Volvo Ocean Race, for halving the price of competing for sponsors.

Much of the credit for this has been ascribed by report author, Manuel Díaz, to The Boatyard, the shared-maintenance facility introduced by the race for the last edition in 2014-15.

"A campaign now costs around 50 per cent less to run – in the last editions, the cost was between €20-35 million rather than €10-15 million for campaigns at the same level," the report, Assessment of the Maintenance Operating Model, says.

The Boatyard has broken new ground in the offshore racing industry, pooling both human and equipment resources for the servicing of a newly-introduced class of boat. The Farr-designed Volvo Ocean 65 one-design broke with 40 years of tradition in an event, which was launched in 1973 as the Whitbread Round the World Race.

The report, which was commissioned by the race after the finish of the 12th edition in June last year, highlighted: "The list of benefits is no longer hypothetical: the model has already been implemented, showing an excellent performance and outstanding results."

The report, in particular, praises:

Significant cost reduction in contracts with suppliers, spare parts stock, transportation, labour and support staff and infrastructure

• A reduction of breakages and the consequent corrective maintenance

• Improved predictive maintenance, fixing potential weaknesses before they result in breakdowns

It added: "One of the main benefits of The Boatyard is that it has become easier to attract both participants and sponsors – the entry barrier is lower but is not only a matter of cost.

"As all the teams have the exact same platform, the risk of having a much slower boat is lower. On the other hand, safety has been at the heart of the one-design process, with the boats designed to last at least two editions of the toughest race on earth."

Díaz recommends that The Boatyard could be even more effective with a stepped-up level of performance monitoring through a list of key indicators such as average time for repair, man power utilisation and efficiency and inventory turnover.

Nick Bice, who manages The Boatyard, was delighted the project had won the positive comments from the PwC report.

“What pleases me is that it’s recognised now that our standards are in line with the very highest in the automotive and aeronautical industries,” he said.

“A key statistic that has been highlighted is that 90 per cent-plus of our servicing was proactive, in other words fixing potential problems before they led to breakdowns. Only around 10 per cent of that work was reactive.

“Our ambition is now simple: we are aiming to get to a stage where there is no excuse for breakages in the next race other than those caused by human error.

“We don’t want future stories to be about why a boat has broken down, we want the stories to be about the people sailing onboard.”

I find the repairs interesting but that's personal. Persico was their yard wasn't it?

Will Persico still be their yard?

http://www.persicomarine.com/RacingProjects/VolvoOceanRace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big news: Boat entry cost slashed by half, confirms PwC report.

http://www.volvoocea...PwC-report.html

At a time when rival major global sports events are struggling to contain spiralling costs, a report by independent auditors PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) has praised sailing’s premier round-the-world event, the Volvo Ocean Race, for halving the price of competing for sponsors (full story below).

- Sponsors’ costs drop by half to enter
- Improved reliability and efficiency highlighted
- Ninety per cent of maintenance ‘proactive rather than reactive’

I guess if you pay PWC they will say what you want. At least that's what they did when giving the banks a clean bill of health before the crash.

So how are the entries rolling in for the 2017-18 edition?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks, Herman. I guess the new CEO shall be announced shortly then, and he/she did not want Touber around. (Maybe he wanted the top post, too).

 

Interesting his comments about Tienpont and the lack of mentioning Bouwe Bekking (Maybe Bouwe as Team Director and Tienpont as late coming CEO (after the Cup finishes?!? - too tight IMO). Also interesting the comment of requiring a new boat and their aim to sell the current Brunel one to a new team.... if the boats are One Design, does it really matter if you have a new or an old boat?!?!

 

On Knut, he has been appearing lots on Spanish press and radio this past week. Volvo is trying to extend their contract with the Alicante/Valencia government to stay beyond 2018. The current contract that includes HQ and start of the race ends by then.

 

Touber stepped down like a month ago. Not sure where Race Director comes from, he was definitely the Chief Operating Officer. I believe Tom left because he did not want to work under a new CEO during these likely tumultuous times for the race. The new CEO will split Knut's duties with the current CFO, I believe, who will take Touber's place. I still don't know who the new CEO is, but if he's Spanish you can bet Alicante will be extending their commitment as Race Start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

It doesn't matter which country runs a race. What matters is the challenge and image of the race itself, and definitely the Vendee Globe and the other IMOCA races are now the "top spot" for fast monohull racing and design, and the VOR with the 65s is fading into the background.

 

 

How are you ALWAYS wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

It doesn't matter which country runs a race. What matters is the challenge and image of the race itself, and definitely the Vendee Globe and the other IMOCA races are now the "top spot" for fast monohull racing and design, and the VOR with the 65s is fading into the background.

 

 

How are you ALWAYS wrong?

 

What have I done to so suddenly upset Clean? 3 weeks to say what exactly? in response to a very selective extract out of context.

 

And I am sincerly a fan of SA.

 

As a matter of interest though, anyone know how many teams are formally committed to the next VOR at this time, compared with the same time before the 2014/5 race?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

It doesn't matter which country runs a race. What matters is the challenge and image of the race itself, and definitely the Vendee Globe and the other IMOCA races are now the "top spot" for fast monohull racing and design, and the VOR with the 65s is fading into the background.

 

 

How are you ALWAYS wrong?

 

What have I done to so suddenly upset Clean? 3 weeks to say what exactly? in response to a very selective extract out of context.

 

And I am sincerly a fan of SA.

 

As a matter of interest though, anyone know how many teams are formally committed to the next VOR at this time, compared with the same time before the 2014/5 race?

 

 

I know you are a fan of SA, and I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I hate the way you write as though something is a proven fact, when in fact it is your generally uninformed opinion. Similarly to the way your opinion ran on the "Proto Class 40" discussion.

 

Above, you wrote that "It doesn't matter which country runs a race. What matters is the challenge and image of the race itself, and definitely the Vendee Globe and the other IMOCA races are now the "top spot" for fast monohull racing and design, and the VOR with the 65s is fading into the background."

 

But the organizers of all big races know just the opposite - it matters MASSIVELY what country runs a race and what country competes in a race, and it matters hugely how those teams market themselves. That's why the Vendee Globe, IMOCA, and OSM have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to attract non-French skippers to their race. The Route Du Rhum and TJV are fairly healthy, but the 'other' races you mention - they're not even on the radar for the public, for sponsors, or for skippers. The vast majority of Volvo Ocean Race fans are not Vendee or Barcelona World Race fans; they are fans of the VOR because they are fans of the teams.

 

The Volvo that you say is 'fading into the background' delivered more exposure than the last America's Cup and the Vendee Globe combined. It has more fans, more live spectators, more of everything than the other races. The Vendee will likely continue to have the most overall visitors to a single race village (several million over two weeks) and the Route Du Rhum will continue to own the single-day race visitor record (around 700,000 IIRC), but with the America's Cup abdicating from the world of big crowds of in-person visitors (Bermuda can't hold more than 20,000 visitors or so), the Volvo will still be the biggest game in the sport, at least for another cycle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What have I done to so suddenly upset Clean? 3 weeks to say what exactly? in response to a very selective extract out of context.

 

 

 

 

.....Don't worry,,your only mistake is to take Clean's comments seriously :mellow:

 

 

...it seems that demeaning others is an important part of his maintaining a roll of self importance ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

It doesn't matter which country runs a race. What matters is the challenge and image of the race itself, and definitely the Vendee Globe and the other IMOCA races are now the "top spot" for fast monohull racing and design, and the VOR with the 65s is fading into the background.

 

 

How are you ALWAYS wrong?

 

What have I done to so suddenly upset Clean? 3 weeks to say what exactly? in response to a very selective extract out of context.

 

And I am sincerly a fan of SA.

 

As a matter of interest though, anyone know how many teams are formally committed to the next VOR at this time, compared with the same time before the 2014/5 race?

 

 

I know you are a fan of SA, and I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I hate the way you write as though something is a proven fact, when in fact it is your generally uninformed opinion. Similarly to the way your opinion ran on the "Proto Class 40" discussion.

 

Above, you wrote that "It doesn't matter which country runs a race. What matters is the challenge and image of the race itself, and definitely the Vendee Globe and the other IMOCA races are now the "top spot" for fast monohull racing and design, and the VOR with the 65s is fading into the background."

 

But the organizers of all big races know just the opposite - it matters MASSIVELY what country runs a race and what country competes in a race, and it matters hugely how those teams market themselves. That's why the Vendee Globe, IMOCA, and OSM have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to attract non-French skippers to their race. The Route Du Rhum and TJV are fairly healthy, but the 'other' races you mention - they're not even on the radar for the public, for sponsors, or for skippers. The vast majority of Volvo Ocean Race fans are not Vendee or Barcelona World Race fans; they are fans of the VOR because they are fans of the teams.

 

The Volvo that you say is 'fading into the background' delivered more exposure than the last America's Cup and the Vendee Globe combined. It has more fans, more live spectators, more of everything than the other races. The Vendee will likely continue to have the most overall visitors to a single race village (several million over two weeks) and the Route Du Rhum will continue to own the single-day race visitor record (around 700,000 IIRC), but with the America's Cup abdicating from the world of big crowds of in-person visitors (Bermuda can't hold more than 20,000 visitors or so), the Volvo will still be the biggest game in the sport, at least for another cycle.

 

OK, I see where you are coming from. I should have written "It doesn't matter to me which country ....", and if my opinions happen not to agree with yours I am "uninformed", but letting that all that pass, how many teams signed up for the VOR next time compared with the same time ahead of the last race?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What have I done to so suddenly upset Clean? 3 weeks to say what exactly? in response to a very selective extract out of context.

 

 

 

 

.....Don't worry,,your only mistake is to take Clean's comments seriously :mellow:

 

 

...it seems that demeaning others is an important part of his maintaining a roll of self importance ;)

 

Thanks Couch, water off a duck's ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a minor note, looks like Spain has not given up on the next VOR, despite my forebodings.

 

Xavi indicated he (and maybe even Iker) might have a chance at leading a Spanish team under Campos again. Perhaps the importance of Alicante and the VOR to Spain might be enough.

 

Details gleaned from http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9182_Flying-the-flag.htmlposted a few days ago and the economic report on Alicante's VOR connection (can't find the link ATM).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Spanish still offer pretty impressive tax breaks for Spain based companies if they invest in the VOR. Thus, the value proposition for Mapfre, Telefonica and the likes is (just) an economic one. It is still a difficult sale (as VOR is only one of many platforms with tax breaks in Spain), but a numbers based one that pretty much only gets discussed with the CFO of these firms. On top of that, Alicante in its contract as host venue is also obliged to deliver at least one Spanish boat.

 

If I recall right, last edition around these time we had two publicly confirmed teams: SCA and ADOR. For this edition, none yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Spanish still offer pretty impressive tax breaks for Spain based companies if they invest in the VOR. Thus, the value proposition for Mapfre, Telefonica and the likes is (just) an economic one. It is still a difficult sale (as VOR is only one of many platforms with tax breaks in Spain), but a numbers based one that pretty much only gets discussed with the CFO of these firms. On top of that, Alicante in its contract as host venue is also obliged to deliver at least one Spanish boat.

 

If I recall right, last edition around these time we had two publicly confirmed teams: SCA and ADOR. For this edition, none yet.

Thanks for that info about the obligation. Link? Curious what would happen if no Spanish boat happened. I can imagine the politics of brinkmanship, especially with a new VOR CEO who might threaten to move the venue elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here some interesting links (in Spanish, though)

 

second paragraph states that the Spanish boat is a contract obligation from Alicante:

http://nauta360.expansion.com/2014/09/26/volvo_ocean_race/1411727812.html

 

The regional government officially informs that it paid 6.7 Mn EUR to VOR for the Spanish entry:

http://nauta360.expansion.com/2015/09/24/volvo_ocean_race/1443093254.html

 

Recent interview with Knut, where he states that 5 of the 7 teams from the past edition have signalized that they want to participate in 2017-18 and signed some document accordingly. Mapfre is among them. No mention about the others, but with SCA and Alvi out, it must be the others (although Knut might be counting Charlie and Mark as a team). Knut also mentions that he expects 8 or 9 teams on the starting line:

 

http://www.laverdad.es/alicante/culturas/201601/18/cinco-barcos-piensan-volvo-20160118134138.html

 

With the refitting of the existing VO65 happening end of this year, most sponsors will sit on the fence until then, I reckon. It is going to be another stressful year for the VOR organization to help secure sponsors for the teams. Despite halving the costs, there is no waiting line to join this circus, I am afraid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Knut's last day. Pretty low key interview on VOR site.

 

Nonetheless, his contribution to ocean racing is profoundly admirable IMHO. Who else has has done so much for the sport this century?

 

And the decision you’re most proud of?

KF: During the 2011-12 race, I convinced Volvo to go for a pretty big strategy with the one-design boat, the Volvo Ocean 65, with a potential downside that only I really knew. It was a lot of sleepless nights, more than I ever had in the race.

That was probably my most satisfying moment, seeing a great fleet on the startline in Alicante in 2014. It’s easy to think that the one-design was a big decision, but for me, the biggest decision I could have made was not to do anything.

It was the right decision. But we had to break hundreds of years of sailing tradition to do it.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9188_Fair-winds-Knut.html

 

Congrats and thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here some interesting links (in Spanish, though)

 

second paragraph states that the Spanish boat is a contract obligation from Alicante:

http://nauta360.expansion.com/2014/09/26/volvo_ocean_race/1411727812.html

 

The regional government officially informs that it paid 6.7 Mn EUR to VOR for the Spanish entry:

http://nauta360.expansion.com/2015/09/24/volvo_ocean_race/1443093254.html

 

Recent interview with Knut, where he states that 5 of the 7 teams from the past edition have signalized that they want to participate in 2017-18 and signed some document accordingly. Mapfre is among them. No mention about the others, but with SCA and Alvi out, it must be the others (although Knut might be counting Charlie and Mark as a team). Knut also mentions that he expects 8 or 9 teams on the starting line:

 

http://www.laverdad.es/alicante/culturas/201601/18/cinco-barcos-piensan-volvo-20160118134138.html

 

With the refitting of the existing VO65 happening end of this year, most sponsors will sit on the fence until then, I reckon. It is going to be another stressful year for the VOR organization to help secure sponsors for the teams. Despite halving the costs, there is no waiting line to join this circus, I am afraid.

Thanks for digging those up. Didn't realize the contract had such an expensive default clause, nor that Campos was closely tied to Green Marine. Guess that means out of the 25 teams "in contact" ("8 or 9 likely"), a Spanish team in 2017 is much more likely than I'd suspected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if it got out yet, but COO of the past couple editions, Tom Touber, has resigned from VOR to pursue a position at the head of the Sailing Holland team. So that's Knut and Touber out, and a ghost in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if it got out yet, but COO of the past couple editions, Tom Touber, has resigned from VOR to pursue a position at the head of the Sailing Holland team. So that's Knut and Touber out, and a ghost in.

Herman posted about Touber earlier. #166

 

Think Jack Lloyd might give it a try?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if it got out yet, but COO of the past couple editions, Tom Touber, has resigned from VOR to pursue a position at the head of the Sailing Holland team. So that's Knut and Touber out, and a ghost in.

Think that came out awhile ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jack Lloyd ...don't think so...big difference between his no doubt excellent race management skills and what is needed for the creation/money/promotional aspect of the business. Big shoes to fill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't be surprised if the new CEO comes from outside of the sport. As long as the race management team is in place the CEO position is about talking to the money men, not about sailing skill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New CEO from outside the sport???....that is a bloody big call, particulary when many think a large factor in Knutster's success was the experience borne from being an ex long term VOR competitor/skipper/race team creator. Volvo have been doing this for long enough to get it right I hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites