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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Brunel AIS woke up today, so they are commissioning the boat... is the next announcement?

Ex Vestas is unbranded in Alicante... so probably nobody will use she... so far at least.

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3 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I think we are actually both wrong, I forgot about her skippering one of Chay's boats..

Her first go round was as a skipper in Chay Blyth's Global Challenge event.

2nd was sponsored by Aviva to replicate Chay Blyth's circumnavigation against the prevailing winds hence her Autobiography title "Against the Flow".

3rd Vendee Globe, again sponsored by Aviva making her 1st woman to circle both directions.

4th With SCA in last VOR.

I can't think of a 5th but might be wrong.

But you are completely correct Potter, she has sailed twice around with a crew and most importantly, one of those occasions was as skipper and also with an amateur crew in the same vein as the Clipper which must be a tougher assignment and with a crew that knows completely what they are doing.

Don't underestimate her, she actually has more ocean miles, I'd wager, than Sam Davies.

SS

2010 BWR. 

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27 minutes ago, Potter said:

2010 BWR. 

Yup Potter - points to you, I completely forgot about that one. primarily because it was not a race that I follow but 100% correct.

Staysail, you don't half write some rubbish. After your latest post I looked back at some of the fantasy stuff you wrote about Dongfeng.

You saying I was "mouthing off" is more than just a little of what, in the UK, would be called "the pot calling the kettle black".

If you don't understand what I mean - look it up.

That said, one of the cool thing about the Anarchy forums is everyone can have their opinion.

However, In my mind Potter's reminder of the BWR is that with 2.5(ish) more laps of the planet Dee Caffari, like I said "has more ocean miles" two laps of which were against the prevailing winds.

I didn't say Sam was not an excellent sailor, of course she is-  but in terms of miles she would have to do quite a few transats. You say you've "lost count of Sam's transatlantic races", well actually, I understand, she has done eight - impressive in anyone's opinion.  

Anyway, on this one we have to agree to differ, we have agreed on may things in the past and are bound to be in the same camp or different camp many times in the future.

Stay well fellow anarchist.

SS

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Presuming Ed said:

Always find it amusing when people disagree with @Potter about Dee. 

Aphorisms about holes and digging come to mind.

A bit if a fan is he? :-)

 

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Sam did 8 Transats or so. Just announced her entry for the Vendee 2020. Lots of sailing for Initiatives Coeur until then. (Which probably means zip, zero, nada English content, again. :()

In the VOR we should see 2 more teams. Maybe we'll even get some crew announcements too. Only Mapfre and Akzo have announced anyone beyond skippers so far.

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9 minutes ago, Potter said:

Very much so. ;/ 

ha ha :)

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I stand corrected by everyone on Dee's credentials, but as I said earlier more power to her. I agree with Jack, the dynamics on SCA were a bit hard to fathom. In my opinion, it was poor judgment to leave naming of the skipper so late in the lead up to the last race. How do you build team spirit in any sport when the captain is not known? Furthermore, as I hope several posters will agree, gender is immaterial to the concept and task of team building.

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3 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Staysail, you don't half write some rubbish. ........

SS

My post wasn't addressed to you in particular but since you took the bait, I'd like to see how you tally up Sam's ocean miles. I wouldn't even try! That would be in the "too difficult" box. As I said she is no self-publicist and you would be hard put to find any complete list of where she has sailed and when, but she has been sailing top level ocean racers since she left school and, professional since the day she left university, and to my knowledge, she has always been "busy". It always makes me laugh when I hear people say she only does single handed races.
I wasn't aware that Dee has had quite the same degree of continuity of "work" over the years. Maybe she has and Potter will know I'm sure. I understand the two girls are good friends and I doubt they would actually care though!

You are always very sure of yourself and I have clearly said I don't know about Dee's unpublished/unrecorded sailing but candidly, I doubt you have any idea how far Sam has sailed, and probably you have no idea about Dee either!

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8 hours ago, ITA602 said:

Brunel AIS woke up today, so they are commissioning the boat... is the next announcement?

Ex Vestas is unbranded in Alicante... so probably nobody will use she... so far at least.

Hi ITA602, regrettably your post got trampled in the stampede of anarchists to either crush or love one another. However, much as I hate to say it, I think that what you saw on AIS was the same as I did, namely Brunel winning the Newport-Lisbon leg of the previous race, but take heart, to the best of my knowledge nobody else even tried.  As to the old Vestas, unless you know something more, my post was (as NorBowGirl would say) simply speculation, based on a couple of Facebook posts. When the VOR mentioned a Portuguese co-sponsor, I wondered why an apparently yet unbranded VOR65 that was in Lisbon (Portugal) would be delivered to Alicante (Spain). So much easier to brand in Lisbon. Patience, I sense that all will be revealed shortly.

Caio

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Retired Sailor - Strangely shipfinder.com has Vestas Wind showing (12 hours ago in the free version) as doing 2.8kts at the entrance to the marina in Alicante where there is a VOR conference going on right now. Don't want to read too much into it and the info maybe wrong but have always found this site very accurate. I used it to track the progress of a container ship that had a 50 foot racer we shipped up from Oz earlier this year and it was dead on.

Staysail - you are so often apparently defensive but thank you for the compliment about being "very sure on yourself". That is because I check the information before I write it and I can assure you I mentally kick myself when I am inaccurate as I was when I omitted Dee Caffari's Barcelona World Race (thanks Potter for the correction.) 

My point wasn't that Dee or Sam was the better sailor, try reading what people write before using the "READY, FIRE, AIM" technique, it can save a lot of misunderstanding and having re-read your post I think it would be hard to interpret that your "mouthing off" comment was aimed at anyone else.

Anyway - have to drag myself back to the day job, shame because it is so much more fun here.

Cheers all

SS

 

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10 hours ago, Chasm said:

Sam did 8 Transats or so. Just announced her entry for the Vendee 2020. Lots of sailing for Initiatives Coeur until then. (Which probably means zip, zero, nada English content, again. :()

In the VOR we should see 2 more teams. Maybe we'll even get some crew announcements too. Only Mapfre and Akzo have announced anyone beyond skippers so far.

What about Dongfeng?

Whole crew announced.

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9 hours ago, staysail said:

 

You are always very sure of yourself and I have clearly said I don't know about Dee's unpublished/unrecorded sailing but candidly, I doubt you have any idea how far Sam has sailed, and probably you have no idea about Dee either!

What's the point of this pissing contest? It almost seems like you argue that one always should pick the one with the most miles as captain?

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So they have announced a two year cycle, which is remarkably soon after the previous unveil when MT said it was a possibility.
But making a round Antarctica sprint a leg?  I wonder if that gets them off the hook for RTW if the other legs don't connect back to the origin.

MT must feel like he is dodging between events in Bermuda in order to find a quiet slot to make any announcements at all.

 

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27 minutes ago, Francis Vaughan said:

So they have announced a two year cycle, which is remarkably soon after the previous unveil when MT said it was a possibility.
But making a round Antarctica sprint a leg?  I wonder if that gets them off the hook for RTW if the other legs don't connect back to the origin.

MT must feel like he is dodging between events in Bermuda in order to find a quiet slot to make any announcements at all.

 

Wondering if it'll become a pro-am or even Corinthian race sooner or later?  Bye Bye Clipper?

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Given the number of people they shoe-horn into a clipper boat, I don't see them ever overlapping. 

I do think a lot of us would love to see some sort of Corinthian spirit return, and a race that is including developing younger sailors (and probably paying them close to sod all) does have a bit of that. But you are never going to get a berth on a boat unless you are on your way to being a serious player in international competition.

A repeat of the ABN-Amro 2 team effort is what I would like to see, and more than one team doing it. But retaining a few fully pro teams in the mix is also a good thing, it means there is never any question that the development teams are not competing at 100% against the best. When they do well, it is dong well against top ranked sailors and not just relative to other development teams.

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2 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

What's the point of this pissing contest? It almost seems like you argue that one always should pick the one with the most miles as captain?

Jack started it with his  "..... sorry Sam" post. Not me. And it was quickly picked up by Shanghai Sailor, who incidentally doesn't like my posts because he can't abide any criticism of this event or anyone or anything connected with it.

I know Dee is popular, rightly, especially ever since Aviva put her in the limelight there with the British press, and I sincerely hope she can win this next race, and her entering it will be about the only reason I may follow it this time, but it goes against the grain with me when folk who very probably don't know much about what they are talking start these sort of "Chinese whispers".

And, No, I think ocean miles have little to do with becoming a race boat skipper. What is important is actual racing experience and many other skills, and that is why Sam was made skipper of SCA.

 

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1 hour ago, staysail said:

And, No, I think ocean miles have little to do with becoming a race boat skipper. What is important is actual racing experience and many other skills, and that is why Sam was made skipper of SCA.

 

Cool. We agree, for once :)

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Staysail, why would you suppose some of the people that you criticize "don't know much about what they are talking about"?

You have no basis in fact for your supposition and in fact, to my knowledge, you are entirely wrong.  Try reading the posts a lot more carefully and you might glean a lot more information than you presently have.

It may surprise you but some of those who post but don't bang their own drum know a shitload more than you will ever know about the Volvo, mixed crews, how and why certain people get or are given certain roles and many other topics.

Less talk, more listen. A good lesson for life which I am very slowly learning even at age 60.

 

 

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8 hours ago, DtM said:

What about Dongfeng?

Whole crew announced.

Oops, that was a brainfart.
Dongfeng has all, Akzo most, MAPFRE half of the crew listed. The others are still at the skippers stage.

 

4 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Wondering if it'll become a pro-am or even Corinthian race sooner or later?  Bye Bye Clipper?

I guess we'll have to wait what happens to the VO65 once this cycle is done. Having a (very) different series in the off years catering to a (totally) different would make some sense. They have the gear to do it and if they can keep more staff paid between cycles that should help too.

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Just on another note, Shanghai, looking at the mythical front page,  Dee has never been airlifted from any of her boats. She was dismasted in 2007, but we recovered her and the boat without taking her off. Although an RN frigate did stand by whilst we sorted a tow, due to her proximity to the shipping lanes. 

Frankly it is just me being a pedant, in general, thanks for the kind words. You are right, she is massively excited to be back in the Race. She was always going to choose a 50/50 crew, and the CSR aspect is a bonus in her mind

She has a huge amount to organise and achieve in the next few months, and I will do my best not to get in the way... 

Maybe when things calm down I will get back on here and do a Q and A session if anyone is interested. 

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1 hour ago, DtM said:

Staysail, why would you suppose some of the people that you criticize "don't know much about what they are talking about"?

You have no basis in fact for your supposition and in fact, to my knowledge, you are entirely wrong.  Try reading the posts a lot more carefully and you might glean a lot more information than you presently have.

It may surprise you but some of those who post but don't bang their own drum know a shitload more than you will ever know about the Volvo, mixed crews, how and why certain people get or are given certain roles and many other topics.

Less talk, more listen. A good lesson for life which I am very slowly learning even at age 60.

 

 

I'm with you DtM, people need to read what's written, not what they think is written or want to see.

Staysail, you got me - arrow in the heart. You are dead right - well partly at least. I am an unashamed fan of the Volvo AND the Whitbread before it - yes I, like DtM am around 60 so I am that old. I remember reading about Ramon Carlin winning the first one, I was there at Ocean Village beering it up with what seemed hundreds of drunk Kiwis as Big Red came steaming up the Solent, I have been to more stopovers than hot dinners and been fortunate to do an inport on a 70 and training sails on a 65 and driven photo-RIBs at many stopovers so yes - guilty as charged.

Has the race always been right?

Of course not. I remember hearing how when, just after the Fastnet which Abu Dhabi broke the record on Ian Walker already knew his boat was unlikely to have a chance of winning because it was fast in the wrong directions. The fact that several races were to the IOR Maxi rule and a different headstay arrangement on Steinlager adjusted her rating so she had 2 feet on Fish-Pie, again game over before the start although I don't intend to take anything away from Sir Peter Blake's  achievement in that race

The 70's which broke left right and centre, keel bomb doors failing, hulls too light and delaminating especially in the fierce conditions the fleet encountered in the Luzon Straits rigs coming down and multiple legs completed on the deck of a ship, barge or truck.

The move to One Design was not popular with all but the eventual  winner of the last race is on record as saying it was really the only way to go and who would doubt Ian Walker's credentials.

But to suggest that I "doesn't like my posts because he can't abide any criticism of this event or anyone or anything connected with it." smacks of paranoia on your part Staysail.

Potter - sackcloth and ashes for me, I should read things more carefully myself it seems, I misread the reference where she was - according to the source "rescued by the Royal Navy" and took it to be her lifted off the boat. Humble pie on that one and from what you have just said, even that is wrong if they just stood by in a support rol'.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned - case closed.

Wonder which team will be next, perhaps the skipper will have done no ocean miles then no-one can pick fault he he! 

Stay calm and carry on peeps

SS

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5 hours ago, staysail said:

Jack started it with his  "..... sorry Sam" post. Not me.

That's a classic...you now blame me for digging your own grave..but not with a mear shovel, but a fuckin 35t excavator going 24/7...get a grip mate.

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44 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

That's a classic...you now blame me for digging your own grave..but not with a mear shovel, but a fuckin 35t excavator going 24/7...get a grip mate.

Excluding Potter who clearly does know what he is talking about,

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"

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11 minutes ago, staysail said:

Excluding Potter who clearly does know what he is talking about,

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"

OK Desiderius Erasmus....love them foils you invented though.

images (64).jpg

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30 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

so fucking stoked for Dee, potter.  And I need an interview!

Please do! I am much more excited for this version with this new boat in the race. Seems like it will be very interesting.

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23 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

You say you've "lost count of Sam's transatlantic races", well actually, I understand, she has done eight - impressive in anyone's opinion.  
 

Well I guess just maybe you rely on Wikipedia and the internet (?) as your fount of knowledge, as I see Wikipedia lists only eight of Sam's transatlantic races as follows;

Transat Jacques Vabre

6th in 2003

10th in 2007

10th in 2011

5th in 2015

Transat Ag2r[5]

5th in 2004

12th in 2006

7th of the Transat B to B 2007

11th of the mini-transat 2001

 

and it doesn't include this one, or any of her other transatlantic adventures.

surf - Jun 1, 2008

Day 15 onboard Roxy in The Artemis Transat - This is the END

First British team to finish The Artemis Transat in Boston, USA

Female sailor Sam Davies and Roxy complete gruelling Atlantic test

- Roxy crossed the finish line of the oldest solo sailing race at 00h51 BST last night (23h51 Gmt)
- A valiant fifth place for Sam Davies after 15 days, 10 hours, 00 minutes and 51 seconds at sea
- First Briton and first women in the Open 60 fleet to reach Boston, ahead of Dee Caffari
- Sir Robin Knox Johnston : "(...) Sam's dogged determination is a threat whenever she is racing"

British female solo sailor Sam Davies, sponsored by Roxy, the leading boardriding brand for women, during the night crossed the finish line of The Artemis Transat just off Boston, USA. She completed the single handed race aboard 60 foot racing yacht Roxy in 15 days and 10 hours. In finishing The Artemis Transat, Sam Davies has just completed her 15th transatlantic race and the sixth onboard her pink boat since being appointed skipper at the end of 2006.
 
This sort of thing pasted from a surfing blog, is easy enough to find but much of what Sam has done simply isn't that easy to find. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read a bit more, but even then even a self professed expert like yourself might possibly not know it all!

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18 minutes ago, staysail said:

Well I guess just maybe you rely on Wikipedia and the internet (?) as your fount of knowledge, as I see Wikipedia lists only eight of Sam's transatlantic races as follows;

Transat Jacques Vabre

6th in 2003

10th in 2007

10th in 2011

5th in 2015

Transat Ag2r[5]

5th in 2004

12th in 2006

7th of the Transat B to B 2007

11th of the mini-transat 2001

 

and it doesn't include this one, or any of her other transatlantic adventures.

surf - Jun 1, 2008

Day 15 onboard Roxy in The Artemis Transat - This is the END

First British team to finish The Artemis Transat in Boston, USA

Female sailor Sam Davies and Roxy complete gruelling Atlantic test

- Roxy crossed the finish line of the oldest solo sailing race at 00h51 BST last night (23h51 Gmt)
- A valiant fifth place for Sam Davies after 15 days, 10 hours, 00 minutes and 51 seconds at sea
- First Briton and first women in the Open 60 fleet to reach Boston, ahead of Dee Caffari
- Sir Robin Knox Johnston : "(...) Sam's dogged determination is a threat whenever she is racing"

British female solo sailor Sam Davies, sponsored by Roxy, the leading boardriding brand for women, during the night crossed the finish line of The Artemis Transat just off Boston, USA. She completed the single handed race aboard 60 foot racing yacht Roxy in 15 days and 10 hours. In finishing The Artemis Transat, Sam Davies has just completed her 15th transatlantic race and the sixth onboard her pink boat since being appointed skipper at the end of 2006.
 
This sort of thing pasted from a surfing blog, is easy enough to find but much of what Sam has done simply isn't that easy to find. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read a bit more, but even then even a self professed expert like yourself might possibly not know it all!

 

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On 6/9/2017 at 2:53 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Viewer numbers just for playoffs quite phenomenal.

Where'd you see that Jack?  What I saw was the AC ratings outside of NZ are somewhere behind a European cycling tour event and a re-run of an NHL analysis show, something like 200k average viewers in the USA?  BT1 slightly better but not by much.  You have source for 'phenomenal?'

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Isn't 200k for sailing in the US phenomenal? Also 200k for LVC not too far behind AC34 numbers for cup races excluding last one. Internet figures would be interesting.

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I am reminded of the Monty Python Travel Agent sketch where one character asks "Is this the right room for an argument?" to which he receives the  reply "I've told you once".

Well it seems there are people on here who think "I've tod you once"  when a scroll through the posts of the last week or so it clearly isn't so - someone else mate!

It is very tiresome when you are the target of comeone's angst when it really should belong to someone else.

I would also say that one if makes a detailed point in an argument where nobody is expressing an alternative view or opinion, then doesn't that turn the statement (and the supposed argument) into no more than a rant?

OK I admit I made a couple of omissions/errors in my writings - I hereby publicly apologise for them - job done but I am out of here, I have better things to do with my time than defend things I didn't say or have what I said misquoted and twisted

Might see some of you at some of the stopovers.

Sail safe, sail fast.

SS

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

I am reminded of the Monty Python Travel Agent sketch where one character asks "Is this the right room for an argument?" to which he receives the  reply "I've told you once".

It's not a Travel Agent sketch it's the Argument sketch!  

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Isn't 200k for sailing in the US phenomenal? Also 200k for LVC not too far behind AC34 numbers for cup races excluding last one. Internet figures would be interesting.

Comparisons with this AC isn't useful. It is difficult to fathom what the heck is going in on RC's mind, but the manner in which they have deliberately set out to alienate and reduce their viewership worldwide is unprecedented. Any team sponsor should be livid about this. Pumping many millions into a team, only to have the worldwide public be required to pay for the privilege of viewing sponsor's logos on boats, is not a good way to sell ROI for sponsors.  Of course, if it was the old school AC, where it was just about billionaires trying to prove who has the biggest dick, it wouldn't matter. But that wasn't supposed to be RC's vision was it? 

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Francis for AC34 they had to a pay free to air (NBC) to broadcast, but we're allowed to keep advertising revenue. The internet has turned the dynamics of both free to air and pay for view on its ear. All the same I'm surprised they didn't persevere with free to air this time around for the reasons you outline.

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Remember the "Flintstone generation"? Last time I watched everything on the Internet, and all the races are still up. Brilliant viewing. Now there is an AC YouTube channel that contains 2 minute race highlights only, and the occasional geoblocked longer race. They do have all the press conferences up, which can sometimes be interesting. But it is actually not legally possible to watch all the races here. Insane.

Anyway, moaning about the AC isn't really the point here, except to note how not to do it, and hope/assume the VOR don't do anything so stupid.

Not that the VOR don't need to lift their game, but it seems they understand that. Just hoping we get something with more meat and not just more sanitised corporatised fluff with little more than boats slamming to stupid big hair rock music tracks.

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On 6/14/2017 at 9:12 AM, staysail said:

Sam is the opposite of a self-publicist and lives in France so apart from an occasional word here on SA, her exploits almost never get reported in England and USA. I should think its worth checking facts before mouthing off if you are only English speaking. Worth also remembering Sam sailed all legs of the last VOR and Dee did not actually get round the whole race "on a boat" that time and wasn't in the leg winning crew to Lorient.

In terms of ocean miles the two girls may well have similar numbers, personally I'd reckon Sam has more. She sailed thousands of miles in Roxy before beating Dee in the 2008 VG, and I've lost count of Sam's transatlatic races. But then I don't know Dees CV in detail as I never followed her much before she did the VG.

Sam has actually completed a VOR and also won a leg.

Dee is a better crewed skipper.  Sam is a better solo racer.  Them's the facts.

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39 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Dee is a better crewed skipper.  Sam is a better solo racer.  Them's the facts.

Facts?

Your opinion, (for which, as time passes, I have less and less respect). Not the opinion of the SCA selection committee.

And by the way, I thought you had given up on my comments? Why the sudden change of heart?

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Since this "pissing contest" as NorBowgirl so rightly calls it has been running, (even getting Clean to come out from under his stone!), I would just like to say I think there is no sense nor any solid basis to pit Dee against Sam as others did in this forum. They are both great sailors and have very different sailing career backgrounds. Have they ever come head to head as competing skippers in crewed races? Possibly years ago, I don't know, but I am not aware of any results. What sense does it make now to state one is a better crewed skipper than the other?
The only thing I queried, and reasonably politely, was when a guy said Dee had sailed more ocean miles than Sam, and I sensed he might not know what he was talking about. Maybe she has, but so what!
As I have already said I am hugely pleased that Dee will skipper a boat and that will give me the interest to follow the race, and I really hope she can win and I wish her all possible success.

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I guess there is only one option left.
Someone sponsor a full fledged VOR campaign for both of them and lets find out..... B)

In other news, no new news. 
(germanoceanracingteam.com is down for a relauch, with the current VOR logo. Seems like a hard hint to me.)

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Bouwe (Brunel) must be #7, and if the Germans are #8 I will eat my hat. It is extremely tough to sell a VOR sponsorship in a country without a stopover. (Of course, if Volvo foots the bill again, that is another story...). 

 

Go Dee!

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Could be a fskup as well.
We should find out at the tail end of the AC.

Edit says:
Or it's a combo deal. What little information there is says that Robert Stanjek (skipper) was training with Bouwe. 

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2 hours ago, Chasm said:

In other news, no new news. 

Although I agree, the problem with this forum is that the experts are not trying to put all the snippets of information together, perhaps because they already know. Bouwe's facebook page is now stressing the 'problem with plastic in the ocean' message, and of course it gets 'likes' from all the other reported sponsors of that message, except I didn't see the two reported sponsors of Dee (the strongest VOR report yet, every message button pressed) mentioned.  There's a VOR65 in Alicante possibly unbranded and the latest Dee news only shows a black boom (carbon fiber), which they all have. There are presumably two other VOR65, possibly still in Lisbon, branded or unbranded. My question is still why the fly-by of Aarhus (Denmark) - is it just to increase the challenge of the leg from Gothenburg to the Hague?  There are several high profile corporations in Aarhus, not all Danish. Time is running out, the start of "Leg Zero" is only seven weeks away!!

So, before anyone else says it - yes I'm still running in my wheel, because this forum sucks when it comes to actual real news.

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23 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

My question is still why the fly-by of Aarhus (Denmark) - is it just to increase the challenge of the leg from Gothenburg to the Hague?

Okay, I have resolved the Aarhus connection, it's the headquarters location of Vestas Wind! I missed it the first time I looked at the city's corporations.

I'll admit I'm frustrated, and not a little bored by VOR dribble and drabble, or drivel and gabble, but I think that this SA forum should be capable of pre-empting the PR tactics of VOR. So going back to Dee, in addition to the carbon fiber boom, the photo shows a furled mainsail with a lot of green showing. The only connection I can see is that Portugal's flag is about 40% green of the same shade, i.e. it isn't Magenta as one might have expected from the potentially fake trail proffered by the delivery of a VOR65 to Alicante by Liz Wardley.

Furthermore, I'm beginning to wonder whether, for his eighth RTW, assuming that he will be in, Bouwe has possibly chosen to approach this one differently, i.e. instead of being the driving force in a campaign, to provide his highly esteemed skills and knowledge in another team and win this one. Probably heresy, I know, but he is a self-professed VOR addict, and I think most would agree that he wants to win and deserves to. And before you say it, NorBowGirl, yes pure speculation, but what better way to do it than in a campaign with 'all the message buttons pressed' sponsors?

And tomorrow, go ETNZ!! It is yours to lose. Redeem 2013!

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19 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

Okay, I have resolved the Aarhus connection, it's the headquarters location of Vestas Wind! I missed it the first time I looked at the city's corporations.

I'll admit I'm frustrated, and not a little bored by VOR dribble and drabble, or drivel and gabble, but I think that this SA forum should be capable of pre-empting the PR tactics of VOR. So going back to Dee, in addition to the carbon fiber boom, the photo shows a furled mainsail with a lot of green showing. The only connection I can see is that Portugal's flag is about 40% green of the same shade, i.e. it isn't Magenta as one might have expected from the potentially fake trail proffered by the delivery of a VOR65 to Alicante by Liz Wardley.

Furthermore, I'm beginning to wonder whether, for his eighth RTW, assuming that he will be in, Bouwe has possibly chosen to approach this one differently, i.e. instead of being the driving force in a campaign, to provide his highly esteemed skills and knowledge in another team and win this one. Probably heresy, I know, but he is a self-professed VOR addict, and I think most would agree that he wants to win and deserves to. And before you say it, NorBowGirl, yes pure speculation, but what better way to do it than in a campaign with 'all the message buttons pressed' sponsors?

And tomorrow, go ETNZ!! It is yours to lose. Redeem 2013!

I heard from a couple people who'd know that Bouwe is the closest to the prize at the moment.  Not quite there, but close.   Bouwe said 'nope' when I asked him yesterday, but he sounded hopeful.   

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On 6/16/2017 at 11:24 AM, staysail said:

Facts?

 

From personal observation and research and their peers' opinions.

Sam wins head to head.  And hmm...figaro.

Dee is the consummate seaman and a brilliant leader.  I've seen this first hand.  She is a great person to run this team and will deliver a ton for the event and the message.  Sam is a great person to sponsor for a solo RTW race.  

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53 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I heard from a couple people who'd know that Bouwe is the closest to the prize at the moment.  Not quite there, but close.   Bouwe said 'nope' when I asked him yesterday, but he sounded hopeful.   

Thanks for sharing, hopeful news is always better than no news. However, in the end, despite the skills and experience, or may be because of them, it eventually comes down to personalities and the personal preferences involved. I am frustrated that at this late stage, there are still so many capable people from the last race, never mind the countless others, out there, that have still not been named, i.e. reported as selected, either as crew or skippers for the next race.  I could care less about sponsors, they are not who I will be rooting for!! Except, of course, (a big except) that we need a total of eight individual or combined sponsors to have the race that I at least am looking forward to seeing happen.

But can we please move on from the Sam, Dee debate. Dee is in! Sam, at least at the moment, is not in. End of discussion!

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9 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

From personal observation and research and their peers' opinions.

Sam wins head to head.  And hmm...figaro.

Dee is the consummate seaman and a brilliant leader.  I've seen this first hand.  She is a great person to run this team and will deliver a ton for the event and the message.  Sam is a great person to sponsor for a solo RTW race.  

So just like I said not "facts" and just another opinion, from a guy with English as his first language, who claims to have first hand knowledge about Dee, and not about Sam.


I read nothing from you about any objective basis for your opinion which rates one above the other as a skipper on a crewed boat. The only "fact" here of any relevance that I know about is that Brad Jackson, who hopefully knows a thing or two, and all the other not inexperienced people in Lanzarote for a year or so, testing and selecting a female crew, chose Sam. That is much more convincing for me than your opinion Clean.

I agree that Dee, based on achievements, must be a great sailor. So is Sam, and facts are facts.

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This is such an empty debate.

Focus on the terrific fact that Dee has got a sponsor (or two) and has/is going to put together a team of young'uns mainly including from Portugal.

 

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54 minutes ago, staysail said:

Plonker

staysail your getting close to needing j_s hyptotisim therapy if you keep banging on about this subject and butchering those that don't abide by your thinking.

 

images (59).jpg

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On ‎17‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 2:07 AM, staysail said:

I would just like to say I think there is no sense nor any solid basis to pit Dee against Sam as others did in this forum. They are both great sailors and have very different sailing career backgrounds.
As I have already said I am hugely pleased that Dee will skipper a boat and that will give me the interest to follow the race, and I really hope she can win and I wish her all possible success.

Not that I could give a fuck what you think, I am a plonker, why?  Fuck me slowly,  this was your view a day ago. Fuckwit.

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12 hours ago, DtM said:

This is such an empty debate

 

This is truth.

The only redeeming value in it is the fact that so much passion can be generated over two WOMEN skippers.  We really have seen some progress.

Potter, pass congrats to Dee.  Very well earned.

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10 hours ago, staysail said:

You really need to ask?

You really have no idea who is reading and (in some cases ) contributing to this thread.  I see some posters who have forgotten more about this topic then you will ever know.  Yet on-and-on you plod.

Let me guess. ..you are on the spectrum. 

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On 17.6.2017 at 11:42 PM, Retired Sailor said:

 

I'll admit I'm frustrated, and not a little bored by VOR dribble and drabble, or drivel and gabble, but I think that this SA forum should be capable of pre-empting the PR tactics of VOR. So going back to Dee, in addition to the carbon fiber boom, the photo shows a furled mainsail with a lot of green showing. The only connection I can see is that Portugal's flag is about 40% green of the same shade, i.e. it isn't Magenta as one might have expected from the potentially fake trail proffered by the delivery of a VOR65 to Alicante by Liz Wardley.

 

Meanwhile, at the morning meeting with Dee and her PR people: "Let's put out a picture that will make the SA go crazy with speculations. Just a few details and colors, that will give them a field day" :)

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13 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

Meanwhile, at the morning meeting with Dee and her PR people: "Let's put out a picture that will make the SA go crazy with speculations. Just a few details and colors, that will give them a field day" :)

Good one! Except that I think that that morning meeting with her team PR people involved VOR PR people as well, and that, just maybe, they are all one and the same. The question is - is the boat itself in Lisbon or Alicante? We are now down to just over six weeks before the start of the Fastnet, and boats that are planning to do well do not typically turn up the night before, although with today's aids, they don't have to gain as much local knowledge as we used to have to for the first leg.

12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

NB it would would need to be in Braille

Not sure where that one was headed Jack, because I thought my post showed that I had good eyesight?

And now VOR is really running out of material, today we are celebrating a museum!!!!!!!!!  

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2 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

We are now down to just over six weeks before the start of the Fastnet.

On second thought, maybe because "the fleet" is not assembled, "Leg Zero" has gone out the kitchen door, along with the sink and the rest of the VOR PR garbarge.

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FYI, Vestas Wind AIS is currently active. They're doing 9 kt at 341deg about 60nm south of Lisbon.

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6 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

Good one! Except that I think that that morning meeting with her team PR people involved VOR PR people as well, and that, just maybe, they are all one and the same. The question is - is the boat itself in Lisbon or Alicante? We are now down to just over six weeks before the start of the Fastnet, and boats that are planning to do well do not typically turn up the night before, although with today's aids, they don't have to gain as much local knowledge as we used to have to for the first leg.

Not sure where that one was headed Jack, because I thought my post showed that I had good eyesight?

And now VOR is really running out of material, today we are celebrating a museum!!!!!!!!!  

Boat is in Alicante and branded.

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11 hours ago, notallthere said:

Boat is in Alicante and branded.

and branded to?

A bold statement without any detail.  All of this is fluff until an official announcement is made or a real picture of a branded boat appears so when some anonymous poster on SA claims to know something they are either flinging BS to attention, trolling (damn ya got me), or really got it and want to play.  If it is the latter, stop playing and complete the thought.  "and branded by the primary sponsor ....(fill in the blank)."
-------
Whoever commented on the added attention of just speculating on two women skippers, VOR imagery would certainly benefit from such a sub story.  maybe not Sam since she seemed kind of done, but If given the chance, I bet there would be another top shelf woman skipper who'd love the chance to mix it with the whole gang.  VOR sells it as "Shoot out on the Southern Ocean.  Which woman skipper reins supreme".  

Outside of the core sailors, represented in part by those here, to get the masses to engage for any length of time you need a story.  SCA was last races story along with Vestas.  What story is there for this VOR?  At the moment none and that, outside the core of dedicated sailors, will make for a boring race at one level.
-----
Regarding the AC and this thought, '83 had the plastic fantastic and the under dog Aussie's pulling the upset.  '87 had the defeated skipper fighting for honor, for his country, and some amazing sailing.  Trucks perhaps, but trucks that could handle high winds and seas which made for some dramatic moments.  Even in '92 we had a great story in NZ, very unknown in the AC world taking the event by storm.  This is what drew people in.  Nationality and individuals.  I read SS's comment on the AC (frontpage) and would respectfully disagree regarding Connor's introduction of the Cat to beat NZ big boat.  Not only was it a cheap trick, it missed the opportunity to keep the AC even slightly corinthian. Today we have dedicated grunts, pilots and in one respect, boring boats.  (Oh Jack's going to post a picture again).

Yes, they are the peak of technology, they are fast, they have a look, but there is no heart in them.  Sailing was, is, and should be about heart first and watching a bunch of grunts pedalling around a course is both heart-less, there is no story any more.  I'm bored watching, because they give nothing for me to care about.  I applaud the Brits for at least trying to put nationality back into the Corporate Cup.  I fear MT may take the VOR too far down that rabbit hole and if bringing a box design back meant heart and story stayed in the race...then I'd let go of my OD fevor and get behind it.

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nice find, bucc. Good interview with Dee, confirming that she did not find the sponsors (she included the United Nations into the two foundations mix). VOR did. She was also selected as skipper by VOR (She had already discarded the possibility of being a skipper in this race). Her plan is to have the crew selected by mid August and confirmed participation at the Fastnet. Going with two portuguese (condition from Mipuri), 2-3 experienced sailors and the rest un-tested under 30s. (She claims that all under 30s with experience are already taken).

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54 minutes ago, JeronimoII said:

nice find, bucc. Good interview with Dee, confirming that she did not find the sponsors (she included the United Nations into the two foundations mix). VOR did. She was also selected as skipper by VOR (She had already discarded the possibility of being a skipper in this race). Her plan is to have the crew selected by mid August and confirmed participation at the Fastnet. Going with two portuguese (condition from Mipuri), 2-3 experienced sailors and the rest un-tested under 30s. (She claims that all under 30s with experience are already taken).

So this is actually another "Volvo entry". Just as predicted to me months ago.

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1 hour ago, JeronimoII said:

nice find, bucc.

Absolutely splendid find bucc, and special thanks to Jeronimoll for listening in, my new security software wasn't entirely sure the site was safe! So I was right about that PR morning meeting NORBowGirl. Dee also just went way up the charts for taking on the campaign (i.e. being in the limelight) while still selecting crew. But what better way to do it than taking part in a high profile race that doesn't count for the final event, and completing it in the Plymouth Lisbon leg of "Leg Zero"? There may well be others in the same 'boat'.

And Staysail, who the hell cares that Volvo were involved in putting it together, except perhaps single sponsors, and I can think of at least one that might welcome more boats and exposure. I think it's a positive that race management stepped in where too few are willing to tread. The VOR is after all a massive commitment to undertake, unless you have a billionaire's money and the ego, and only the AC really has that carrot in sailing anymore, although I stand to be corrected.

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19 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Bucc my guess is your love of all things Corinthian includes your taste in women?

unnamed (6).jpg

You don't disappoint, and nothing wrong with that gal.  Classy ladies beats plastic trash that will fall apart at the slightest pressure and be used up in less than a year.  Fast and loose may be your style, but not for me ^_^

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On 2017-6-16 at 10:08 PM, JeronimoII said:

Bouwe (Brunel) must be #7, and if the Germans are #8 I will eat my hat. It is extremely tough to sell a VOR sponsorship in a country without a stopover. (Of course, if Volvo foots the bill again, that is another story...). 

 

Go Dee!

According to my senior account manager at Brunel that I spoke 2 months ago, Brunel wil not sponsor the VOR 17-18. So Sailing Holland, which holds a start license, is probably still looking for a new sponsor. Sailing Holland website (in Dutch) has no recent updates or news since October 2016 though. Bouwe himself does not show up at all in the past 6 months regarding skippering a new VOR, or I missed that in my google search. Bouwe was busy winning the J Class Superyacht Regatta in Bermuda as tactician. In the 3 minute interview after the races at yachtingworld.com the word "VOR" does not drop.. As both Bouwe and sponsoring are a question mark for sailing Holland, my fingers are crossed!

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In case anyone is interested in following them on the Marine Traffic website:

Team Akzonobel is the current 'call sign'.  I found it yesterday looking at the coast of Holland and it showed up in The Hague and today VOR reports the christening in The Hague.

Using a Vestas 11th Hour 'call sign' yesterday, I found that it had re-crossed the Atlantic from Newport, and stopped in Gosport UK in the last week in May 2017.  Its photo ID shows the old Alvimedica, but I think it is them, either that or yet another false trail.

Using Marine Traffic as a 'guest' isn't easy, because even if you know the call sign, you appear to have to know roughly what part of the world it is in, although it did (apparently) correctly find Vestas 11th Hour without me knowing where to look.

Perhaps Shanghai Sailor is right about 'shipfinder.com' but I couldn't get the hang of using it.

Anyone any ideas on what Dee's 'call sign' might be? I still haven't been able to find Dongfeng or Mapfre again using the 'call signs' that worked before.

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2 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

In case anyone is interested in following them on the Marine Traffic website:

Team Akzonobel is the current 'call sign'.  I found it yesterday looking at the coast of Holland and it showed up in The Hague and today VOR reports the christening in The Hague.

Using a Vestas 11th Hour 'call sign' yesterday, I found that it had re-crossed the Atlantic from Newport, and stopped in Gosport UK in the last week in May 2017.  Its photo ID shows the old Alvimedica, but I think it is them, either that or yet another false trail.

Using Marine Traffic as a 'guest' isn't easy, because even if you know the call sign, you appear to have to know roughly what part of the world it is in, although it did (apparently) correctly find Vestas 11th Hour without me knowing where to look.

Perhaps Shanghai Sailor is right about 'shipfinder.com' but I couldn't get the hang of using it.

Anyone any ideas on what Dee's 'call sign' might be? I still haven't been able to find Dongfeng or Mapfre again using the 'call signs' that worked before.

Dee's call signal? Like, she has the boat at her disposal and is sailing around with it already? Didn't know that. Anyway, why wonder where the boats are right now? They have a schedule and must appear according to it...

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1 hour ago, NORBowGirl said:

Dee's call signal? Like, she has the boat at her disposal and is sailing around with it already? Didn't know that. Anyway, why wonder where the boats are right now? They have a schedule and must appear according to it...

Perhaps I should have said the call sign of her team's boat. If she's going to be doing Fastnet and still selecting crew, yes I'm pretty darn sure she'll be sailing it around soon. Except at the dock, and many times even then (checking out systems) all the other reportedly delivered boats have shown up sailing or docked somewhere on AIS.

As to why wonder where they are? Aren't you even a little bit curious? I certainly am.  Team Akzonobel is reportedly going to be doing an Atlantic return trip in the near future, six weeks before the start of the Fastnet, and they already have their crew selected (although it's a trifle strange that their team photos only show eight men and one woman, which means either that they are planning to sail with one woman and seven rotating men or that they still haven't selected their second woman). Vestas 11th Hour has already completed their return Atlantic crossing, but the majority of crew still not announced yet.

If you know where a boat is, and you subscribe to certain social and other media (geomantic) which I do not, there is a mass of information out there. Most professional photographers and many cell phone photos report not only the photo, but the exact location it was taken.

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5 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:


As to why wonder where they are? Aren't you even a little bit curious? I certainly am.  .

Retired try this tried and proven analogue method.

John_Beattie_Eugene_Rochas_seance.jpg

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Retired try this tried and proven analogue method.

John_Beattie_Eugene_Rochas_seance.jpg

Hi Jack, good one, but we live in a digital age, even I know that, although I know that my mother would have strongly agreed that there are some things that occur that cannot be explained by digital means, or analog for that matter.

However, I need to correct my earlier posts about 'call sign', that's radio speak; the correct term is 'AIS signature' or 'AIS identifier'.

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8 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

 

As to why wonder where they are? Aren't you even a little bit curious? I certainly am. 

I'm not curious about where the announced team boats are right now. They have a tight schedule before the race and my thought was that the crews will be exhausted before the race even starts...I'm more curious about crew names and if there will be more teams :) 

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Dee is running first crew sail trials starting next week. Then a short break as she has a prior commitment, then trial 2 and 3 to end up in UK. Fastnet, then leg 0. Then all the boats have a refit period prior to being in Alicante. 

During the refit period the later teams will all be ensuring the crews have all the safety, first aid, and sailing qualifications.

 

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6 minutes ago, Potter said:

Dee is running first crew sail trials starting next week. Then a short break as she has a prior commitment, then trial 2 and 3 to end up in UK. Fastnet, then leg 0. Then all the boats have a refit period prior to being in Alicante. 

During the refit period the later teams will all be ensuring the crews have all the safety, first aid, and sailing qualifications.

 

I have the safety training, FYI.   :):):):)

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56 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

I'm not curious about where the announced team boats are right now. They have a tight schedule before the race and my thought was that the crews will be exhausted before the race even starts...I'm more curious about crew names and if there will be more teams :) 

I agree the real interest right now is not the boats or where they are. It is the people who will take part. Especially who will actually sail in Dee's crew? how experienced? (all these "under 30s"), and how and when they will gain the necessary experience and expertise to sail this RTW race reasonably safely in the very short time which remains. (Just think about what a VG sailor has to do to qualify him/herself and the boat.) The difficulty of the task Dee has taken on should not be underestimated.  The event may have descended into a dog and pony show, but it is not going to be a walk in the park.

The fact that Volvo had to get Dee to enter a team and she hasn't yet got a crew to name just proves the race didn't get enough entries, and how important women now are to the race and that the "positive discrimination" plan didn't work.

I reckon the absence of news is just a symptom of the failure of the event to attract real serious competitors (opinions why may vary!) and VOR is struggling to get anything firm to announce. What sense would it make to be keeping secrets so close to the start? The time left now before the actual VOR race start is too short for any team not already fully up and running.

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