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2 hours ago, JMOD said:

rumour has it that a dutch bald sailor will be doing the VOR again

Please be more specific, if you mean Bouwe, that rumor has been around for a while now. Question is as the skipper of Team Holland or the other missing boat, or as one of a "bunch of real experienced experts" as Staysail called them supporting someone else? Bouwe most certainly qualifies as a "real experienced expert', but as I said in an earlier post about Bouwe possibly supporting another team, it ultimately comes down to personal preference and personalities. But wouldn't a Dee-Bouwe team be fantastic? And yes Jack, I'm expecting a fantasy answer.

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10 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

thx.  I imagine we could put Dee and staysail in a gym together and see who deadlifts more ;)

 

 

So Clean reckons that a great performance at dealifting is an essential qualification for an ocean race winner. That's sure going to encourace the Ellen's of this world!

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Turner has the 7th boat signed up, though I have no fucking idea who it is.  It is possible that it is ETNZ, though that is a bit of a wild ass guess.

 

 

Be an interesting idea, how many offshore sailors do they have in the team pool?

Seems they are very much drawn from inshore and cup specific at the moment. 

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2 hours ago, staysail said:

So Clean reckons that a great performance at dealifting is an essential qualification for an ocean race winner. That's sure going to encourace the Ellen's of this world!

Ellen?  Where did she come into the conversation?

Keep in mind that ABN AMRO 2 crew George Peet, one of the best pro trimmers you'll find anywhere and a massively strong guy for his size, could not get a ride on a VOR to save his life despite racing and winning on some of the best offshore programs anywhere.  Why?  Because he's like 5'6" and 170 and no matter how much muscle he puts on or how lean he gets, he doesn't have the power of the guys who are 6'2 and 230.

Does offshore racing in crew-limited powerful boats make it tougher for smaller folks to get rides?  100%.  Not sure if there is a solution to that one.

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2 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

Please be more specific, if you mean Bouwe, that rumor has been around for a while now. Question is as the skipper of Team Holland or the other missing boat, or as one of a "bunch of real experienced experts" as Staysail called them supporting someone else? Bouwe most certainly qualifies as a "real experienced expert', but as I said in an earlier post about Bouwe possibly supporting another team, it ultimately comes down to personal preference and personalities. But wouldn't a Dee-Bouwe team be fantastic? And yes Jack, I'm expecting a fantasy answer.

I have learned a bit ago that it looks like the next entry to be announced will be Bouwe and the Canadian Ocean Racing Team in a joint program.  Two sources so far, but not enough specifics to really confirm.  Bouwe usually answers my emails in minutes and he hasn't answered the one I sent earlier yet, so that could be an answer in itself.  Or he's out sailing.  Emailed the woman who runs the CORT as well, will let you know what I find out.

 

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46 minutes ago, mad said:

Be an interesting idea, how many offshore sailors do they have in the team pool?

Seems they are very much drawn from inshore and cup specific at the moment. 

They have a big pile, and Nicho is still hanging about somewhere.  I've been tracking news of a Luna Rossa/ETNZ joint entry led by Alberto Bolzan and Patricio Bertelli's son Giulio...it's mostly my conjecture based on some odd little bits of news I've been getting, but Turner flat out said no.  Though he did think it was a great idea!

 

 

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I have learned a bit ago that it looks like the next entry to be announced will be Bouwe and the Canadian Ocean Racing Team in a joint program.

 

3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I've been tracking news of a Luna Rossa/ETNZ joint entry led by Alberto Bolzan and Patricio Bertelli's son Giulio..

Jack, wake up, Clean already came back with two fantasy answers!! Where are yours?

A Canadian Ocean Racing Team! I wish! As to LR/ETNZ, I am sure there are some on this forum that would wish that too!!

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

Does offshore racing in crew-limited powerful boats make it tougher for smaller folks to get rides?  100%.  Not sure if there is a solution to that one.

Why it is pretty hard to find top line boats north of 60' anymore that are not powered from day one or retrofitted. God knows how the smaller framed IMOCA guys do what they do.

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7 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Ellen?  Where did she come into the conversation?

Keep in mind that ABN AMRO 2 crew George Peet, one of the best pro trimmers you'll find anywhere and a massively strong guy for his size, could not get a ride on a VOR to save his life despite racing and winning on some of the best offshore programs anywhere.  Why?  Because he's like 5'6" and 170 and no matter how much muscle he puts on or how lean he gets, he doesn't have the power of the guys who are 6'2 and 230.

Does offshore racing in crew-limited powerful boats make it tougher for smaller folks to get rides?  100%.  Not sure if there is a solution to that one.

1. There is a very simple solution for the VOR which even you should be able to get your head round, and that is box rule boats and no limit to crew numbers. Do you think a skipper isn't capable of deciding how many crew he/she needs to sail a boat?
2. Why is there any more logic to a limit on crew numbers than there is to a limit on crew weight?
3. And to answer your question, with current rules and attitudes like yours, sure it makes it harder, and that seems to be what you like to see! But even with the attitudes of guys like you stacked against them, women can win in ocean sailing competition, and can do as well as men. Like SCA to Lorient, or are you saying that's a fluke? Like Ellen's RTW record and podium in the VG, like Justine in the Figaro. I expect you might weigh more than her but could you get in the top 10 in the Solitaire?
4. Sailing isn't, and shouln't be, a weightlifting contest. I find weightlifting a bit boring to watch and I don't want to see sailing get that boring.

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3 hours ago, staysail said:

1. There is a very simple solution for the VOR which even you should be able to get your head round, and that is box rule boats and no limit to crew numbers. Do you think a skipper isn't capable of deciding how many crew he/she needs to sail a boat?
2. Why is there any more logic to a limit on crew numbers than there is to a limit on crew weight?
3. And to answer your question, with current rules and attitudes like yours, sure it makes it harder, and that seems to be what you like to see! But even with the attitudes of guys like you stacked against them, women can win in ocean sailing competition, and can do as well as men. Like SCA to Lorient, or are you saying that's a fluke? Like Ellen's RTW record and podium in the VG, like Justine in the Figaro. I expect you might weigh more than her but could you get in the top 10 in the Solitaire?
4. Sailing isn't, and shouln't be, a weightlifting contest. I find weightlifting a bit boring to watch and I don't want to see sailing get that boring.

There are far easier solutions than that.  Ban the stack, for one.  Or just go big multihulls with only 4 sails.  Either move gets you smaller people.

It's a good discussion - whether to limit via crew number or weight.  I'll ask the CEO what he thinks when I see him later.

 

Actually, staysail or anyone else - if you want to get some questions answered by Turner, post them here.  If they're intelligent, I'll ask and post the interview later. 

 

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8 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Interesting video.

This would be a great addition, if true, and now that's two teams to cheer for.  I also think it's a hoot to consider two old AC teams hooking up to play in something that is 180 degrees from their past.  Luna Rosa, a name not heard by me since Paul Cayard learned some Italian and played off the west coast of the US.

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Bouwe just told me "you know i love you but if you post that you will look like an idiot"

 

In other words, it is not the Bouwe and Meg show.  Damn! If I wasn't so balls deep in this AC right now I'd start digging

 

 

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9 hours ago, staysail said:

1. There is a very simple solution for the VOR which even you should be able to get your head round, and that is box rule boats and no limit to crew numbers. Do you think a skipper isn't capable of deciding how many crew he/she needs to sail a boat?
2. Why is there any more logic to a limit on crew numbers than there is to a limit on crew weight?
3. And to answer your question, with current rules and attitudes like yours, sure it makes it harder, and that seems to be what you like to see! But even with the attitudes of guys like you stacked against them, women can win in ocean sailing competition, and can do as well as men. Like SCA to Lorient, or are you saying that's a fluke? Like Ellen's RTW record and podium in the VG, like Justine in the Figaro. I expect you might weigh more than her but could you get in the top 10 in the Solitaire?
4. Sailing isn't, and shouln't be, a weightlifting contest. I find weightlifting a bit boring to watch and I don't want to see sailing get that boring.

I agree sailing shouldn't be made more physical for its own sake, but I think the extra crews may not help - if I recall correctly SCA enjoyed an extra crew member per watch, and while it gave them the opportunity to continuously trim both sails, I don't think it ultimately made or broke them. I think Dee's team this time around will be much more successful because it isn't going to try and build a 100% female team. Lemme expand. 

I think women can be great - but we haven't given them the opportunity to catch up in experience. It made SCA watch captain's jobs much harder and skipper had higher burdens non stop. 

I prefer an interim quota because it encourages giving young women an opportunity to become experienced, with expectation that once we reach critical mass, hopefully we see enough talent that crew gender won't even be a statistic. 

So much of VOR is also about optimal navigation. Libby did a great job at times with bold decisions and def won the leg from Lisbon but it was her first and navigation is one of those things where you get better without needing to pump more iron. 

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Bouwe just told me "you know i love you but if you post that you will look like an idiot"

 

In other words, it is not the Bouwe and Meg show.  Damn! If I wasn't so balls deep in this AC right now I'd start digging

 

 

Screw the AC...it's a hacked event that is losing viewers and money.  Get on the job about VOR stuff.  I read that Bertenelli thinks going back to monohulls is bad, but my response would be, and how well has foiling super cats been for the Corporate...cough...America's...Cup?  I think the idea of setting a stage for a monohulled, foiled AC boat would be fantastic.  Almost every major race is going foil assist and instead of the the "AC" being about some technological marvel that turns is not, it is about the things that made AC stand out.

Anyway, as to the VOR, I get a feeling we're going to get an announcement soon about crew selection and maybe a next skipper.  That is worth digging into and let's leave the cyclists to finish pedaling their way to victory (I do hope the corporation that is loosely representing New Zealand wins.  Fuck USA right now) and accept that it is not that news worthy.

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10 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Actually, staysail or anyone else - if you want to get some questions answered by Turner, post them here.  If they're intelligent, I'll ask and post the interview later. 

Okay Clean, one obvious question is: are Leg Zero and the Prologue Race both mandatory prequals or is there a choice of one or the other?

The next obvious one is: when are we going to get more information on teams, and crews rather than the drip feed we are getting at the moment?  We understand that there are circumstances that might be beyond his current control, but we may all drop off to sleep or have "shaken off this mortal coil" before either of the prequals or the real race even start. Many years ago there used to be a sign over the counter in the main Hong Kong post office that said something along the lines 'news from afar is like water to a thirsty traveler'. A very evocative message, particularly to me.  

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10 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

There are far easier solutions than that.  Ban the stack, for one.  Or just go big multihulls with only 4 sails.  Either move gets you smaller people.

It's a good discussion - whether to limit via crew number or weight.  I'll ask the CEO what he thinks when I see him later.

 

Actually, staysail or anyone else - if you want to get some questions answered by Turner, post them here.  If they're intelligent, I'll ask and post the interview later. 

 

Basically I would like to see as few rules as possible. I am not suggesting a crew weight limit rule, just pointing out that a crew number rule and boats designed specifically for big strong men disadvantages smaller individuals and of course, women. The fewer the rules the less the influence of "outsiders" like juries, and if you don't have a rule it can't be broken. Rules like banning stacking - how do you police that one? OK, its possible, but nobody wants a camera watching their every move 24/7.

If you sail in box rule boats with a boat-only weight limit and maybe an empty boat stability rule, then a team can sail with as many or as few people in the crew as they want and can design their boat, deck layout, gear, winches etc. to suit what they consider is an optimum number of crew. Depending on the weights and strengths of the crew, there must be an optimum number to sail with.

I really think the current one-design has had a very adverse effect.

I am open to the big multihull idea, but again for heavens sake not one-design! Why not a simple box rule for multihuls, also with just a stability criteria? To keep me interested for this kind of race at any rate, there needs to be development and technical interest in the boat design as well as top level sailing. One-design is fine when it comes to individual sailors proving their skills I still think the Figaro 2 is the best place to see that for offshore and it is cheap enough not to prevent young people with not much money from getting into the sport and proving what they can do.

My two questions for MT would be:

1. Why continue with one-design boats when they are boring and are killing innovation and are closing the door to all but your one selected designer?

2. Why do you think it is necessary to have any rule about crew numbers? Men, women, mixed crews, - even fit people come in all shapes and sizes - why can't the skipper and not the organiser decide how many to sail with?

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9 minutes ago, staysail said:

Basically I would like to see as few rules as possible. I am not suggesting a crew weight limit rule, just pointing out that a crew number rule and boats designed specifically for big strong men disadvantages smaller individuals and of course, women. The fewer the rules the less the influence of "outsiders" like juries, and if you don't have a rule it can't be broken. Rules like banning stacking - how do you police that one? OK, its possible, but nobody wants a camera watching their every move 24/7.

If you sail in box rule boats with a boat-only weight limit and maybe an empty boat stability rule, then a team can sail with as many or as few people in the crew as they want and can design their boat, deck layout, gear, winches etc. to suit what they consider is an optimum number of crew. Depending on the weights and strengths of the crew, there must be an optimum number to sail with.

I really think the current one-design has had a very adverse effect.

I am open to the big multihull idea, but again for heavens sake not one-design! Why not a simple box rule for multihuls, also with just a stability criteria? To keep me interested for this kind of race at any rate, there needs to be development and technical interest in the boat design as well as top level sailing. One-design is fine when it comes to individual sailors proving their skills I still think the Figaro 2 is the best place to see that for offshore and it is cheap enough not to prevent young people with not much money from getting into the sport and proving what they can do.

My two questions for MT would be:

1. Why continue with one-design boats when they are boring and are killing innovation and are closing the door to all but your one selected designer?

2. Why do you think it is necessary to have any rule about crew numbers? Men, women, mixed crews, - even fit people come in all shapes and sizes - why can't the skipper and not the organiser decide how many to sail with?

Sigh...you do make it hard......

1.  OD is here.  It is not going to go away.  Much like the POS Corporate Cup that thinks it's innovative with foiling Cats when they've ben around already and theyreally don't draw crowds.  We have our beefs.  If you want to bitch, bitch on why multi's for the in port  That is just plain stupid and no matter how Team Canada tries to sell it, it's stupid for a RTW race.

2. There are moments when you really need to come out from the 19th century.  Simply put, there is discrimination in professional sailing against women.  This sport has a good number of competent, capable women sailors and they are not selected, because the last bastion of swinging dicks seems to be sailboat racing.  I applaud MTs decision to set crew numbers based on female inclusion and I applaud Dongfeng for being the first to step up to the plate.  Same with Dee.  Sailing was a man thing, I'm guessing, because on a two year cruise, mend could not handle keeping it in their pants and the PTB figured keep women off the boat so we don't make babies.  Instead men refined the art of buggery.  It is simply shocking that the US Navy not only allows women as sailors, but they (gasp) get to be captains.  If Turner thinks by setting crew numbers based on gender may get more females involved...good on ya mate.

I just hope for one more boat, another female skipper and she throws a finger to the crowd and goes all female again.  I say this not because I think women are weak, but because I think women, when they get the opportunity, can show how they can kick butt with the best.

So my question. Mark, why do you not be more transparent in teams selection/building and would you please dear god not put multi-hulls in this race.  If the AC is any indication, you will not generate excitement and you may lose followers.  Race the boats they sail and stop being a child.

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bucc, sorry but you are the one who needs to be dragged into the present. If ocean racing one-design doesn't go away, the audience will!

I have just watched the start of the Bridge. 4 Ultimes versus the Queen Mary 2 to New York, It was fantastic and close to the biggest crowds I have ever encountered at any sailing event start. I was amazed. Just overhearing the crowd gossip also. These are families with children and, including the kids, they seem to know a whole lot about what and who they are watching. They are not just sightseeers out for a walk on a sunny Sunday afternoon. There is a genuine following here amongst the general public. The boats are all different. They are very fast (40 kts +) and they are hugely exciting both to sail and to watch. One-design would kill it off. These guys and the occasional gal like finding ways to get their boats going faster, not sticking at last year's pace, and the public likes to see the results. They are interested in the boats and in the sailors.

Big fast and different ocean racing multihulls are undeniably by far the most exciting things on the water today, and its going to be impossible to claim that anyhing else is anything like "Extreme" once the world public starts to understand these boats like the French do. You have to face up to it. Long distance ocean racing is already moving into the future and inevitably other things which will be seen as tame and boring by comparison, will be left behind.

The top sailors here are now sailing big trimarans, and the public like watching and following the careers of the top sailors.

I have no idea how it is all financed and organised, ROI etc. and to put it mildly organising a multi-stopover RTW race with these things would be "challenging" but there is no denying these things are capturing the public interest and imagination here and they are capable of drawing an incredibly huge crowd, and it makes the one-design VOR65 racing look pre-historic, and changing to a foiling one-design monohull, and having lots of finnicky rules, isn't going to be a long term answer.

 

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13 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

There are far easier solutions than that.  Ban the stack, for one.  Or just go big multihulls with only 4 sails.  Either move gets you smaller people.

It's a good discussion - whether to limit via crew number or weight.  I'll ask the CEO what he thinks when I see him later.

 

Actually, staysail or anyone else - if you want to get some questions answered by Turner, post them here.  If they're intelligent, I'll ask and post the interview later. 

 

How would you ban or police the moving of the stack on the current boats, or any similar monohull?

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4 hours ago, mad said:

How would you ban or police the moving of the stack on the current boats, or any similar monohull?

I don't think stacking should be policed but in VOR there's so much media gear 24/7 on deck you won't be able to hide the stack. They can also review the tapes, setup a time lapse capture that gets reviewed. 

 

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8 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

 Get on the job about VOR stuff.  

If you are my new boss, I would like a raise

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4 hours ago, mad said:

How would you ban or police the moving of the stack on the current boats, or any similar monohull?

They have cameras that stream back to base.  

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Policing of rules has always been a curious question.  The media crew member is not allowed to do anything towards sailing the boat. How the heck do you expect that to be policed?  Especially in the earlier rounds when the media crew was actually a team member. Indeed there are a whole lot of rules about how the media person was supposed to operate.  And it changed from race to race as the rules were gamed. Media member became media-cook-cleaner. Now they are included in cooking and cleaning only so long as there is a fair rota and they do no more than other crew members. Good luck policing that.

Banning stacking is IMHO a good idea.  I have never really liked the whole mess.  It has always struck me as inelegant, and a wretched way to wring a tiny bit of extra performance out of a boat. They already have water ballast. Stacking is just an activity that once one boat is doing, everyone has to. It just ends up making every boat's crew's lives more miserable. It isn't sailing. Probably the only justification for allowing it, is the difficulty in policing it, and that is now much easier. There are lots of other rules that are explicitly intended to stop other forms of stacking. Heavy emergency equipment is required to be located on the centre line and has seals attached to ensure it isn't moved.

 

 

 

 

 

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Hell, I hope the AC is exciting, otherwise why am I constantly getting up at 3 am to watch it !!!!

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DIM it is certainly that on and off the water.

With the view that ETNZ's advantage is in controlling these skittery machines and keeping them flying particulary in light airs, I put out today a thought where on board control system development might head. That was it will be with software and electro/mechanical systems controlled by the brain and "thought".

Not that far fetched as it is already here in the prosthetics arena.

https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/features/robots-with-a-human-touch

I understand eight people in the world now have what they call a myoelectric prosthesis controlled by thought and it is now the subject of interest by the military. One of those eight is an Australian welder who actually constructed parts of his own mind controlled prosthetic arm.

After reading this post it may well cause the buccmeister to lose his mind entirely. 

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Dee is not going to win anything. She has a long track record at this. It is not a woman versus men thing it is a skill thing. Sure if I wanted a delivery skipper with excellent seafaring skills and knowledge then sure she would be first in line to skipper a superyacht. However if I wanted a winner then any of the prior VOR skippers who have succeeded have come from very different backgrounds but in all cases demonstrating a winning ability from a early age throughout various boat sizes. Boats need leaders and leaders have skills that everyone can respect. This is not project management in business where you can put the right boss in charge who knows little about the task but can form an effective team as in sailing this is taking 1 person off the team who is actually world class at what they do. Did Ian Walker last time when the boat was a bit slow on AIS hand down a command to the crew to make the boat go faster or did he strap on his boots and go and lead the process of evaluating the problem and then coming up with the solution until they were as fast or faster.

Dee has no Medals, no offshore wins such as Mini or Solitaire de Figaro so who believes that she has what it takes to wind this race even if we swapped the entire DFRT crew excluding helms with hers? Fuck I might pitch up to Mark Turner and say I will be the helm if it is just a people management exercise. It has nothing to do with deadlifting and more to do with being a world class competitive sailor with a track history of winning at whatever class they turn their hand to. Sailing round the world on your own in a steel boat with no competition does not cut it. How far was she behind Mike Golding by the Doldrums in a sister boat with plenty of preparation time and money before her mainsail started to deteriorate?

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On 24.6.2017 at 10:41 PM, staysail said:

So Clean reckons that a great performance at dealifting is an essential qualification for an ocean race winner. That's sure going to encourace the Ellen's of this world!

Are you suggesting that being strong requires, or will specially interest,  lesbians?

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

DIM it is certainly that on and off the water.

With the view that ETNZ's advantage is in controlling these skittery machines and keeping them flying particulary in light airs, I put out today a thought where on board control system development might head. That was it will be with software and electro/mechanical systems controlled by the brain and "thought".

Not that far fetched as it is already here in the prosthetics arena.

https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/features/robots-with-a-human-touch

I understand eight people in the world now have what they call a myoelectric prosthesis controlled by thought and it is now the subject of interest by the military. One of those eight is an Australian welder who actually constructed parts of his own mind controlled prosthetic arm.

After reading this post it may well cause the buccmeister to lose his mind entirely. 

I lost that a long time ago.

Actually I think that is some amazing technology.  As a software developer who reads a lot of Scifi I'd say it's about time.

Now as to something like that on sailboat?  Why bother sailing then.  Just go VR.  Hell, with the computer models they have today, it owould not be all that hard to design a system where the boat is "sailed" in VR and broadcast to the adoring fans.  Why go through the expense of building the boat.  Couple your thought control with VR and the internet and not only do you save money, teams can be very creative creating their "World".

You might argue that modeling is on thing, but reality is something else.  Got it, but with the level of sophistication on board, what stops a team from just running it via remote control.  Two water wings zooming around with no crew on board.  Seriously Jack, how far do you want to take it.  You like to make fun of my Corinthian attitude, but at least it still means I believe in and have a passion for sailing, for actual hands on sailing not some techy shiny thing that can't sail in winds over 24 kts or mainly carries grunts on board,

If they perfect this thought control thing and apply it to sailing well then it will be fun watching remote control boats sail in flat water going very fast.  Yea for sailing.

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24 minutes ago, staysail said:

You are really excelling in the deliberate misrepresentation stakes. Do you think you are achieving something?

Well, Ellen is one of the worlds most famous lesbians so.....I just wanted to ask if that was what you meant. Not here to achieve much.

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17 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

I lost that a long time ago.

Actually I think that is some amazing technology.  As a software developer who reads a lot of Scifi I'd say it's about time.

Now as to something like that on sailboat?  Why bother sailing then.  Just go VR.  Hell, with the computer models they have today, it owould not be all that hard to design a system where the boat is "sailed" in VR and broadcast to the adoring fans.  Why go through the expense of building the boat.  Couple your thought control with VR and the internet and not only do you save money, teams can be very creative creating their "World".

You might argue that modeling is on thing, but reality is something else.  Got it, but with the level of sophistication on board, what stops a team from just running it via remote control.  Two water wings zooming around with no crew on board.  Seriously Jack, how far do you want to take it.  You like to make fun of my Corinthian attitude, but at least it still means I believe in and have a passion for sailing, for actual hands on sailing not some techy shiny thing that can't sail in winds over 24 kts or mainly carries grunts on board,

If they perfect this thought control thing and apply it to sailing well then it will be fun watching remote control boats sail in flat water going very fast.  Yea for sailing.

You don't get it do you?? These fuckers do 2X wind speed or closing speeds of up to 100k or 180 kmh and match racing and where essentially only 2/3  bodies at the back of the bus are driving, trimming and doing tactics. It has got nothing to do with virtual racing fool.

Remote control technology like this is there now but in button/paddle/pedal form in Bermuda right now and any improvement upon that actually allows them to get their head up out of the boat and eyes watching old school wise, just as you advocate, except they are not doing 8k in a clunker.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Well, Ellen is one of the worlds most famous lesbians so.....I just wanted to ask if that was what you meant. Not here to achieve much.

WTF!?  Seriously I think her long term boyfriend would be a bit surprised to hear that.

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2 minutes ago, Potter said:

WTF!?  Seriously I think her long term boyfriend would be a bit surprised to hear that.

Her wife would also be surprised to hear that she has a boyfriend! :)

 

Seriously.....

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3 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Her wife would also be surprised to hear that she has a boyfriend! :)

 

Seriously.....

Shows my finger is not on the pulse...

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

You don't get it do you?? These fuckers do 2X wind speed or closing speeds of up to 100k or 180 kmh and match racing and where essentially only 2/3  bodies at the back of the bus are driving, trimming and doing tactics. It has got nothing to do with virtual racing fool.

Remote control technology like this is there now but in button/paddle/pedal form in Bermuda right now and any improvement upon that actually allows them to get their head up out of the boat and eyes watching old school wise, just as you advocate, except they are not doing 8k in a clunker.

 

 

Nor do you and guess we could go on all day, on the wrong thread.  buttons, pedals... will you be happy when it's just a top gun style event with one fighter pilot in the back?  Because that is what I read you advocating.  What's the next technical leap Jack?  How many millions will be spend next time to eek out another couple of knots, if that. They pulled the hulls out of the water, created a wing, winglet rudders...size is not a leap forward so what we may get next time is just more buttons to push, less crew as they figure ways to power fly by wire.  It is astounding that the first thing you use as an argument is the most boring aspect of the whole event.

Hey, it's your thing, clearly not mine and I'd rather get back to prodding CLEAN or one of his minions to find some solid facts on what's going on with the VOR.  6 solid teams, do we have a 7th?  Can that really be that hidden a bit of news?

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9 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

They have cameras that stream back to base.  

A shame they didn't use them more effectively for better coverage last time round

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6 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

.. will you be happy when it's just a top gun style event with one fighter pilot in the back?  Because that is what I read you advocating.  

What is the colour of the sky in your world? Point exactly to where I advocate or even infer that??

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1 hour ago, NORBowGirl said:

Well, Ellen is one of the worlds most famous lesbians so.....I just wanted to ask if that was what you meant. Not here to achieve much.

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/ellen_20110322192422.jpg

or?

http://www.ellenmacarthur.com/images/9.jpg

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6 minutes ago, mad said:

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/ellen_20110322192422.jpg

or?

http://www.ellenmacarthur.com/images/9.jpg

Even here, the top Ellen must be the most famous :) I just thought it was funny in this context (muscles, stereotypes). 

Move along, nothing to see here :)

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2 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Even here, the top Ellen must be the most famous :) I just thought it was funny in this context (muscles, stereotypes). 

Move along, nothing to see here :)

Not in the context of the thread :lol:

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

What is the colour of the sky in your world? Point exactly to where I advocate or even infer that??

Quote

With the view that ETNZ's advantage is in controlling these skittery machines and keeping them flying particulary in light airs, I put out today a thought where on board control system development might head. That was it will be with software and electro/mechanical systems controlled by the brain and "thought".

Quote

Remote control technology like this is there now but in button/paddle/pedal 

I raised it as a question and that you seem to not want to refute.  You are into speed, more speed more speed.  You extol the greatness of having only 2/3 people in the back so it is not hard to conjecture you'd be happy with even faster boats with less people on board.
 

Quote

These fuckers do 2X wind speed or closing speeds of up to 100k or 180 kmh and match racing and where essentially only 2/3  bodies at the back of the bus are driving, trimming and doing tactics.


Doctors are now, today, able to do remote operations so what's to stop the next step which is get rid of the human on board.  What do you want Jack, speed speed speed with a couple of programmers on board?

LIke I said, we differ.  Let's leave it at that.

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26 minutes ago, mad said:

Photo, (Short haired blond)

or?

Photo, (Short haired brunette)

I had never heard of that top one before, NBG. Had to look it up on Google! I had no idea what you were on about.

"Ellen", in a sailing context, is Ellen MacArthur, a succesful sailor who is not famed for weightlifting. I guess your faux pas was because you were not aware of Ellen MacArthur's sailing accomlishments?

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Bucc to make it clear. Would like to see cats being more stable using more advanced control  systems, particularly in lower wind ranges which equals closer competition and maybe marginally faster. Far from less people on board, want to see more doing something other than generating power. That should be clear enough for even you.

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Bucc to make it clear. Would like to see cats being more stable using more advanced control  systems, particularly in lower wind ranges which equals closer competition and maybe marginally faster. Far from less people on board, want to see more doing something other than generating power. That should be clear enough for even you.

 

Are we talking about VOR? Cats don't belong in the latitudes and wind range so in VOR. 

Happy to discuss future of foiling cat or AC utilization of crews, but seems disconnected from VOR.

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13 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Bucc to make it clear. Would like to see cats being more stable using more advanced control  systems, particularly in lower wind ranges which equals closer competition and maybe marginally faster. Far from less people on board, want to see more doing something other than generating power. That should be clear enough for even you.

Works for me.  Now back to the VOR where we also don't see eye to eye, but at least it's about the VOR B)

All this commentary about lifting dead weight, can women handle it....come on.  If it takes longer then tack less.  If a lot of tacking will be required center it and figure out how to make the boat sail faster, even if sailing a point or two off VMG.  There are ways to work a problem without saying girls can't do it as equals.

Regarding the comments on Dee and her ability to put together a winning team

 

Quote

Caffari was the skipper of the yacht Imagine It. Done. One crewmember needed to be airlifted off in the Southern Ocean, creating the largest Southern Ocean Rescue of all time for the New Zealand Rescue Service. The race also saw the team develop from having to retire from the second leg of the race to finishing on the podium in leg six.

Having a medal does not prove value or skill as it translate into other venues.  She was on a VO65 that clearly should have gotten the most improved award as they nailed one leg in very tough conditions.  If there was anyone I'd want as skipper in the SO, it's Dee for her resume reeks of heavy weather and tough ocean experience.  She knows how to sail, she may have a slightly inexperienced crew, but with most under thirty, perhaps in better physical shape to take the relentless pounding they will get in the SO leg.  I think that when they get to that leg she'll have them tuned in and charging.  I doubt she's doing this just for publicity.  She wants to win and even if the starting conditions are not in her favor, she will make it work.

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1 hour ago, staysail said:

I had never heard of that top one before, NBG. Had to look it up on Google! I had no idea what you were on about.

"Ellen", in a sailing context, is Ellen MacArthur, a succesful sailor who is not famed for weightlifting. I guess your faux pas was because you were not aware of Ellen MacArthur's sailing accomlishments?

Nope, I've heard a lot about sailing Ellen, of course. My faux pas was that you knew that "The Ellens of the world" most often means lesbians. Nothing wrong with that, she seems like a nicer person than most. 

How did you feel when Google told you who she was? Did you find it a little bit funny, in this context? Pleeeeeease say yes :) 

 

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8 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Nope, I've heard a lot about sailing Ellen, of course. My faux pas was that you knew that "The Ellens of the world" most often means lesbians. Nothing wrong with that, she seems like a nicer person than most. 

How did you feel when Google told you who she was? Did you find it a little bit funny, in this context? Pleeeeeease say yes :) 

 

Sorry but "No", but then I come from a generation when "gay" still had its original meaning.

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Well, now that the AC is over with very deserved success for ETNZ (knuckle biting at todays start unnecessary), can we please concentrate on the forthcoming VOR?

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9 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

Well, now that the AC is over with very deserved success for ETNZ (knuckle biting at todays start unnecessary), can we please concentrate on the forthcoming VOR?

Sorry :) (it's not me, it's her - she posted this one hour ago)

dee.PNG

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14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Peter Burling rumoured to be considering going around next time subject to AC scheduling.

Now you're just making things up....sources?  The bodies not even dead yet on the AC (Great job NZ) and we're starting rumours? 

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11 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Sorry :) (it's not me, it's her - she posted this one hour ago)

dee.PNG

Would that mean we're looking at her team?  Grrrrrr....this media dearth is frustrating.

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46 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Sorry :) (it's not me, it's her - she posted this one hour ago)

No apology necessary to those thirsty for news, so was this Dee's prior commitment? Is that her on the left, and who might the other people be? The New Zealand  fern is hard to miss and the person at the extreme right looks familiar. Sympathy for bucc5062, I too had hoped for real VOR news today, they always take the weekend off!!! But today, same old, same old! PS, I don't see any bald Dutch male.

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4 minutes ago, Potter said:

It is exactly what she says it is. First sail trial.

Okay Potter, erudite you, so you do the announcement of who you think are watching the screen in the "first sail trial" and, apart from a supposedly common interest in sailing, what does watching the AC in foiling catamarans in relatively benign conditions have to do with any of the legs in the next VOR race, except perhaps the importance of a crew working successfully together, albeit in totally different circumstances? 

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1 minute ago, Retired Sailor said:

Okay Potter, erudite you, so you do the announcement of who you think are watching the screen in the "first sail trial" and, apart from a supposedly common interest in sailing, what does watching the AC in foiling catamarans in relatively benign conditions have to do with any of the legs in the next VOR race, except perhaps the importance of a crew working successfully together, albeit in totally different circumstances? 

To be fair, two guys working successfully together while the grunts power the boat.

The wording implies her team and these days one has to consider that the VOR PR folks are very skilled at "The Tease".

Am I the only one to think MR CLEAN won't be seen for about a week, where he'll get washed up on a beach somewhere, hungover, fragments of memories involving Kiwi's, booze, women, and strangely enough...cats.  Other than those from Corporate Team Oracle, right now there has to be one hell of a party going on in Bermuda.

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1 hour ago, bucc5062 said:

Would that mean we're looking at her team?  Grrrrrr....this media dearth is frustrating.

I see Liz Wardley and Libby Greenhalgh. 

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1 hour ago, bucc5062 said:

Would that mean we're looking at her team?  Grrrrrr....this media dearth is frustrating.

Well. If she is trying out different people we can't expect to get many names yet, I guess. But I felt the same as you looking at the picture. Who are they, who are they....

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59 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

Okay Potter, erudite you, so you do the announcement of who you think are watching the screen in the "first sail trial" and, apart from a supposedly common interest in sailing, what does watching the AC in foiling catamarans in relatively benign conditions have to do with any of the legs in the next VOR race, except perhaps the importance of a crew working successfully together, albeit in totally different circumstances? 

Well what do you reckon? Of course they're not looking at trim or something. I reckon they look for inspiration, just in general. 

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36 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

To be fair, two guys working successfully together while the grunts power the boat.

Bucc, please give it up. Although I hate to go back to the AC, you've got it wrong. The reason ETNZ lost in 2013 was ultimately because of mistakes made by the skipper and eventually primarily the tactician. This time around, with a smaller crew, they acknowledged that their decision to go with the cycling power system that they chose meant that the whole crew had to be part of the decision process. Please read the NZ press. The basic message was that at all times as many people as possible had to have their eyes out of the boat, i.e. participating in decision making. The win proves that their 'as many eyes out of the boat' system worked. I am sure Ben Ainslie will be empowered by the fact that the team he lost to ultimately won. The problem is that he and the previous Oracle (of which he was a star member) and the latest Oracle had the same view of who wins races, and it didn't work!

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12 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

Bucc, please give it up. Although I hate to go back to the AC, you've got it wrong. The reason ETNZ lost in 2013 was ultimately because of mistakes made by the skipper and eventually primarily the tactician. This time around, with a smaller crew, they acknowledged that their decision to go with the cycling power system that they chose meant that the whole crew had to be part of the decision process. Please read the NZ press. The basic message was that at all times as many people as possible had to have their eyes out of the boat, i.e. participating in decision making. The win proves that their 'as many eyes out of the boat' system worked. I am sure Ben Ainslie will be empowered by the fact that the team he lost to ultimately won. The problem is that he and the previous Oracle (of which he was a star member) and the latest Oracle had the same view of who wins races, and it didn't work!

That I will.  It's done and since I really didn't care that much for it anyway, it's a moot point.  Just to say this, the pick of the boat will be very interesting and I'd not be surprised if NZ goes back to monohulls and plays with foils.  That would get me to watch again.

Anyway, Sophie may be 32, but that fits in the 4 mature slots and having an experienced bow sailor would be a plus.  I think we may see that the Dee may fill key roles with experienced women then split the rest with the under 30 crowd.  Dee, Sophie, and  Liz would make a formidable  backbone to a VOR team.

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5 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Well what do you reckon? Of course they're not looking at trim or something. I reckon they look for inspiration, just in general. 

Go back to page 21 and read the last of my posts that bucc5062 quoted and his underline of that post, and then read my immediate past post to bucc5062 on this page. The important messages are team work, and (I speculate if Dee didn't read the NZ press) as many eyes out of the boat as possible. In the case of SCA in the Southern Ocean, there should probably have also have been as least as many minds inside the boat as eyes outside the boat. IMHO they should not have disabled the swing keel to carry out repairs without first centering it! Yes, they would have had to sail more conservatively for a while, but to my mind that is what it takes. I use Ian Walker as my guide on that. The one time that they didn't sail conservatively it cost them! 

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7 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Just to say this, the pick of the boat will be very interesting and I'd not be surprised if NZ goes back to monohulls and plays with foils.

One last AC comment, monohulls foil assisted off Auckland or any where else around the NZ coast could be as exciting as 12 meters off Freemantle were way back. Full foiling, I tend to doubt.

As to the 'gals' let's wait as patiently as we can and see!   

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I missed Miffy's post because of the page change while I was writing, so the chosen and potential 'gals' in the forthcoming race could include Libby. Now we are getting somewhere!

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8 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

One last AC comment, monohulls foil assisted off Auckland or any where else around the NZ coast could be as exciting as 12 meters off Freemantle were way back. Full foiling, I tend to doubt.

As to the 'gals' let's wait as patiently as we can and see!   

Let me try to tie it in...MT announces that the VOR is going foil after this race (forget in-port).  People LOVE the VG foilers for their speed and MT is trying to match that desire.  NZ putting the boat to race as a foiling Mono just puts them in line with the larger trend of major racing today.  I joke about the J's (still would be awesome), but as a serious thought, putting foiling (assist) monohulls off the coast of NZ, not in some bathtub harbor would not only make great visual effect, it would get us back to the idea of crew racing (trim, sail changes etc).  The other aspect is that it allows better flow of professionals from race to race, boat to boat.  Not advocating OD, but sailing styles.

The VOR could benefit from an AC that uses a modern, but more identifiable boat.  And some how MT needs to be taken off the path of foiling cat in-port racing.  Either it will be a cluster fuck, or boring.  I want to see the same crew, all of them, racing in-port.  That's me.

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47 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

but as a serious thought, putting foiling (assist) monohulls off the coast of NZ, not in some bathtub harbor would not only make great visual effect, it would get us back to the idea of crew racing (trim, sail changes etc).  The other aspect is that it allows better flow of professionals from race to race, boat to boat.  Not advocating OD, but sailing styles.

The VOR could benefit from an AC that uses a modern, but more identifiable boat.  And some how MT needs to be taken off the path of foiling cat in-port racing.

I agree with you, but how the hell do you get MT or anyone else away from this concept of 'stadium racing' or similar, because THE MEDIA dictate it or at least demand it!! IMHO, the worst news that VOR has delivered to date is that viewing the forthcoming VOR will be restricted to certain types of MEDIA access. We, or at least I and a whole host of other fans of any multitude of sports, know what that means.  Life as we knew it is dead, unless you pay big bucks to the corporations that control everything, and that make even bigger bucks off all the advertising and socio-political crap that they ram down our throats. A nominal price is acceptable, considering their high profit margins, but extortion is not acceptable!

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2 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

I missed Miffy's post because of the page change while I was writing, so the chosen and potential 'gals' in the forthcoming race could include Libby. Now we are getting somewhere!

 

I think Libby was always one of the talent most likely to get scooped up in mixed crews because she's now a more experienced navigator and is known to be good contributor to team dynamics. 

 

Also not surprised if Liz gets picked up since she's a known capable mechanic/sailor. 

I think for those that follow SCA last time around, it shouldn't be a surprise the crew members that consistently kept a positive outlook will be the ones finding boats. 

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1 hour ago, Retired Sailor said:

I agree with you, but how the hell do you get MT or anyone else away from this concept of 'stadium racing' or similar, because THE MEDIA dictate it or at least demand it!! IMHO, the worst news that VOR has delivered to date is that viewing the forthcoming VOR will be restricted to certain types of MEDIA access. We, or at least I and a whole host of other fans of any multitude of sports, know what that means.  Life as we knew it is dead, unless you pay big bucks to the corporations that control everything, and that make even bigger bucks off all the advertising and socio-political crap that they ram down our throats. A nominal price is acceptable, considering their high profit margins, but extortion is not acceptable!

End of the day, we all get to make a choice.  I chose to not engage with the AC as it was styled and did not give them my dollars, my marketing info.  Mark Turner could be sent a message that folks will bail if they limit (re: cost) access, they put the wrong show on.  Last race we had the public tracker and the media posts off a website.  That seems to work so if somehow they limit the tracker data, they limit viwing media or in-port...then they lose if we say this will not be.

Honestly,  I can go ride a horse, sail a boat.  I don't need VOR, AC, VG, but I'd like to follow if those in charge figure out that greed does not work, passion does.

 

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4 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

Anyway, Sophie may be 32, but that fits in the 4 mature slots and having an experienced bow sailor would be a plus.  I think we may see that the Dee may fill key roles with experienced women then split the rest with the under 30 crowd.  Dee, Sophie, and  Liz would make a formidable  backbone to a VOR team.

Does not work that way, at least not on the same leg.
According to Team Clean Sea self imposed rules(*) each leg will be sailed with:
4 over 30, 2 female & 2 male
6 over 30, 3 female & 3 male

Lots of crew changes between legs. Certainly in the under 30 department perhaps less for the older generation. Maybe a female navigator, Libby or someone else? Perhaps another RTW trip as mentor for Will Oxley? The list of positions to fill is long. At least Dee has a better idea of who has been signed up than we do.

*: Part of the message, but easier to change than official rules if need be.

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1 minute ago, Chasm said:

Does not work that way, at least not on the same leg.
According to Team Clean Sea self imposed rules(*) each leg will be sailed with:
4 over 30, 2 female & 2 male
6 over 30, 3 female & 3 male

Lots of crew changes between legs. Certainly in the under 30 department perhaps less for the older generation. Maybe a female navigator, Libby or someone else? Perhaps another RTW trip as mentor for Will Oxley? The list of positions to fill is long. At least Dee has a better idea of who has been signed up than we do.

*: Part of the message, but easier to change than official rules if need be.

I think you meant 6 under 30, but I get your point.  Still, self imposed is not written in stone and a savvy skipper would still want the best people in key roles as mentors.  Tell me an available guy and refute me, but we know Magenta has talent in spades and Dee can tap that at any time.  I think this is the next discussion point (for fun) to be had next to who will boat 7 be?

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30 minutes ago, Chasm said:

Ooops. copy pasta is hard.

Pete? A bit expensive with the fresh AC win I think.

If you are talking about the video, Dalton is asked about the next AC and what format.  He makes reference to the Vendee and Volvo and the fragmented sailing scene and wanting to tie it all together etc. Another hint at it at 50:06.

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1 hour ago, Chasm said:

Pete? A bit expensive with the fresh AC win I think.

My apologies, one more AC post. Excellent video southerncross and thanks. Wasn't quite sure what to make of Chasm's post, but since the posted frame showed Peter Burling, I was eager to hear what he had to say, and I confess that I was disappointed.  I had hoped to hear what being the (youngest) skipper of a winning AC team felt like.  He was given at least one direct question on that specific subject and he dodged it, and ended up sounding like he had watched too many re-runs of Bull Durham or Jerry Maguire. Grant Dalton was significantly more personable, albeit not giving much away. I realize these are professionals, but wouldn't the general audience, let alone fellow sailors, be more interested in the personal aspects, than the corporate team speak?

Even in the limited VOR coverage of skipper conferences and interviews of the last race, there were inspiring insights into the personalities of and decision making by the skippers and a few, but all too few, by some of the crew members. Do you actually now have to go into the locker room to get any insight?  I'm beginning to write a 'once upon a time' story, so--------------!

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I did watch the final AC press conference. The next AC will be after this VOR. The biggest thing that they (the top 4-6 sailing events) can do is to make sure that the event timing does not clash too badly. After that it gets difficult.

Technology is currently moving at a fast pace, foiling is getting more mainstream every day. Hard to get the choices right.
Just look at the UFO, if it can deliver half of the Dingy Anarchy hype (and be delivered in quantity :D )  things are about to change on a wide scale. The price is certainly right. On the other end of the spectrum the ultime class is coming online. That will be exciting, the currently running exhibition race (The Bridge, against Queen Mary 2) in crewed mode is just a first taste.
I suppose that Peter Burling would rather take a turn at the helm of an (crewed) ultime than go RTW on the VO65 painbox.

What I would really like to see in the technology department is the end of the diesel habit. It's a freaking sailboat.
Lets take a slice from Conrad Coleman and his entry in the last Vendee Globe. Generate electricity primarily with a really big hydro generator that can be turned on and off at will, store it in a big battery. Then use that energy for all kinds of stuff. Keel if you have one, a few powered winches if the class allows it (Less dire need for muscle mass = more chances for women.). ...Perhaps even oil pressure on the AC boats... Oh, one more thing: Dock out with empty batteries. Keep the pre start phase long enough to do some charging. That should drive development and keep things real. Sailboat, not a plug in hybrid. ;)

As far as the VOR goes they want to put more emphasis on renewable, but getting the show on the road and around the planet seems to be more important.

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1 hour ago, Chasm said:

I did watch the final AC press conference. The next AC will be after this VOR. The biggest thing that they (the top 4-6 sailing events) can do is to make sure that the event timing does not clash too badly. After that it gets difficult.

Technology is currently moving at a fast pace, foiling is getting more mainstream every day. Hard to get the choices right.
Just look at the UFO, if it can deliver half of the Dingy Anarchy hype (and be delivered in quantity :D )  things are about to change on a wide scale. The price is certainly right. On the other end of the spectrum the ultime class is coming online. That will be exciting, the currently running exhibition race (The Bridge, against Queen Mary 2) in crewed mode is just a first taste.
I suppose that Peter Burling would rather take a turn at the helm of an (crewed) ultime than go RTW on the VO65 painbox.

What I would really like to see in the technology department is the end of the diesel habit. It's a freaking sailboat.
Lets take a slice from Conrad Coleman and his entry in the last Vendee Globe. Generate electricity primarily with a really big hydro generator that can be turned on and off at will, store it in a big battery. Then use that energy for all kinds of stuff. Keel if you have one, a few powered winches if the class allows it (Less dire need for muscle mass = more chances for women.). ...Perhaps even oil pressure on the AC boats... Oh, one more thing: Dock out with empty batteries. Keep the pre start phase long enough to do some charging. That should drive development and keep things real. Sailboat, not a plug in hybrid. ;)

As far as the VOR goes they want to put more emphasis on renewable, but getting the show on the road and around the planet seems to be more important.

You're rambling, please be more specific, what you are describing is a either a Kon Tiki with a mass of solar panels, and wind generators and a water maker made of a box with a plastic membrane (a la desert) or an unmanned, unpowered, sail driven box that goes where the wind takes it, and both have been done already. Both are sailboats and neither are what you call plug in hybrids. Either that or you want to go a la Viking, oars, sails and some animal bladder water containers? That too has been done.

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1 hour ago, Retired Sailor said:

You're rambling, please be more specific, what you are describing is a either a Kon Tiki with a mass of solar panels, and wind generators and a water maker made of a box with a plastic membrane (a la desert) or an unmanned, unpowered, sail driven box that goes where the wind takes it, and both have been done already. Both are sailboats and neither are what you call plug in hybrids. Either that or you want to go a la Viking, oars, sails and some animal bladder water containers? That too has been done.

Chasm's not rambling and you need to read his post, get up to speed on technology, and think!

His is one of the most sensible post on this forum for a long time. Likes of MT should sit up and take notice.

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Some background.

In the last Vendee Globe Conrad Coleman (NZ) was the first to compete AND finish without the use of fossil fuels. His boat had no diesel engine, and while there was more solar than the others the main power source was a large hydro generator, a conversion of the saildrive. The boat was from 2005 with a hydraulic canting keel and inital performance was above expectations. Collecting sail and other damage along the way and dismasting on day 96 in place 10 made for a long 110 day trip and place 16 overall. (18 out of 39 finished)

So the technology is there to power a 60ft canting IMOCA around the world. Commercially available from oceanvolt. There seemed to quite a bit of interest in the IMOCA world to use this technology more for the next edition. IIRC Mark Turner was also interested in one of the Clean interviews after the VG. Just using wind power -and no more diesel- is a strong draw for most sponsors. (Perhaps not so much for Volvo Penta. ;) ).

This edition of the VOR will reduce the amount of diesel per leg and introduces watt&sea hydrogenerators (pioneered in the VG) make up the energy difference.
Compared to what Conrad did on his very shoe string budget that looks more like green washing than the real deal to me. Conrad had roughly one order of magnitude more generating capability on his boat than the refitted VO65.

Plug in hybrid... Here is what I meant:
Long race like the VOR are easy. The batteries will never be large enough for the whole distance, the charging system must work efficiently (low drag, high output) or the competition will be faster.
Short course racing like the AC might be a different story. I want the use of wind energy in a additional way, charging the batteries at the dock or from a chase boat between races can't be the goal.

I think using wind power in an additional way it is much more interesting than the sound of a diesel engine. More interesting than the grinders in the AC as well. That kind of technology and corresponding rule change is something the big race organizers should talk about with ISAF/World Sailing and the record keepers. Put a nail into the coffin of diesel powered keels and winches which IMNSHO don't fit in the first place..
Will this add another perspective to the race? I think so. When to charge (more drag) becomes another thing to manage. 

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