• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
JeronimoII

VOR 2017-18

3,522 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Fine, why doesn't he stick to his AC then. Why does he intervene into VOR? They are some things in the AC Press Conference he never should have said. I like it when Events stay for themselves.

TNZ should be prohibited from having a Team in the 2017/18 VOR and Auckland should be scrubbed as Stopover.

 

How did GD intervene? Is there no freedom of expression in Deutchland? A former participant whose VOR experience was actually made into promotion videos by VOR within the past year is not going to get iced because some butt hurt rando has beef with GD. 

II'm no a Kiwi apologist, GD is abrasive, but you're nuts.

 

Auckland has been the last stop before the southern ocean because of the great logistics and fan support in NZ. Really you're nuts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if it's news here, but it was news to me: Sophie Csizek has a ride on Mapfre:

So: I just became a Mapfre fan. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jbc said:

Not sure if it's news here, but it was news to me: Sophie Csizek has a ride on Mapfre:

So: I just became a Mapfre fan. :-)

Now that's good news!  So glad for Sophie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Sophie hadn't of scored a ride then the whole gender balance idea would be down the toilet. She is a pretty tough and talented cookie. Like to see her get some experience at the back of the bus for the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll stay with Dongfeng Race Team

So nice from Horace :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

If Sophie hadn't of scored a ride then the whole gender balance idea would be down the toilet. She is a pretty tough and talented cookie. Like to see her get some experience at the back of the bus for the future.

+1.

Hope she gets equal pay too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, there was another in the announcement.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Volvo picture? That should be Pablo Arrarte behind her.

in the mapfre picture and written VOR article there is also Támara Echegoyen. (Spain, Elliott 6m Gold medal in London)

20393669_516226678719589_4040849225150365696_n.jpg.26bc80e632499d971a7a10f0c4e58715.jpg

 

In slightly older news AkzoNobel announced Martine Grael. (Brazil, 49er FX gold medal in Rio) 
....Apparently they send the press release to scuttelbutt but not the VOR. *g* 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking through crew lists once more we have 4 complete crews. Akzo, DF, mapfre, Vestas
All are 7+2, what a surprise. Both Akzo and DF list 3 spare males.

That leaves TTT, Scallywag, Brunel and the mystery team.
Looking at the females 3 come from Team SCA, 6 do not. Interesting(tm). There should be 8 more slots, 4 on TTT, 2+2 on Brunel and the mystery boat.

Oh, and someone lit a fire under the VOR, team pages now have much more complete crew lists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr Turner has apparently been reading SA. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, at least some good news today, Sophie's got a ride. She's on Mapfre's crew with Tamara Echegoyen.  Check it out. You did check it out I see. Apologies I was on Page 25 when I signed in!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Chasm said:

Looking through crew lists once more we have 4 complete crews. Akzo, DF, mapfre, Vestas
All are 7+2, what a surprise. Both Akzo and DF list 3 spare males.

That leaves TTT, Scallywag, Brunel and the mystery team.
Looking at the females 3 come from Team SCA, 6 do not. Interesting(tm). There should be 8 more slots, 4 on TTT, 2+2 on Brunel and the mystery boat.

Oh, and someone lit a fire under the VOR, team pages now have much more complete crew lists.

Annemieke Nees on AkzoNobel was almost SCA but didn't the spot. Wonder if Brad Jackson and her had a little chat about that on AN. 

Carolinjn was probably the strongest helm on SCA?

Since there are only 6 boats considering mixed crew, we should be expecting 14-15 involved. Pretty good for next cycle IMO - perhaps enough cross pollination between men and women so that future crews will have less resistance to mix teams and team scallywags can go fuck themselves. 

I'm crossings my fingers for LG to get invited by DC to be navigator. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Fine, why doesn't he stick to his AC then. Why does he intervene into VOR? They are some things in the AC Press Conference he never should have said. I like it when Events stay for themselves.

TNZ should be prohibited from having a Team in the 2017/18 VOR and Auckland should be scrubbed as Stopover.

I've been reading this thread on and off with mild interest.  I don't see that Dalts is involved much with the current VOR other than offering conjecture.

I think you are missing a little history. Dalts completed seven round the world races, fives as the Whitbread and two as the VOR before, getting involved with the AC.

IIRC, New Zealand has been a stopover in every iteration of the event.

Please feel free to correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hitchhiker said:

I've been reading this thread on and off with mild interest.  I don't see that Dalts is involved much with the current VOR other than offering conjecture.

I think you are missing a little history. Dalts completed seven round the world races, fives as the Whitbread and two as the VOR before, getting involved with the AC.

IIRC, New Zealand has been a stopover in every iteration of the event.

Please feel free to correct.

 

New Zealand didn't have a stopover in 1973/74 (Whitbread, obviously) or 2008/09 races.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Miffy said:

I'm crossings my fingers for LG to get invited by DC to be navigator. 

You and me both, but I would have expected the navigator to be one of the first to be chosen after the skipper. Dee has seen first hand what Libby can do. Dee acknowledged that she would be still be selecting crew during the Fastnet and later but I took that to be the 'more junior' members.  Can't someone who has access to Facebook, i.e. crew pages, tell us what they know?

Also when is VOR going to start the website dedicated to the forthcoming race????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Fine, why doesn't he stick to his AC then. Why does he intervene into VOR? They are some things in the AC Press Conference he never should have said. I like it when Events stay for themselves.

TNZ should be prohibited from having a Team in the 2017/18 VOR and Auckland should be scrubbed as Stopover.

Fine, just watch and follow the events that you like. You obviously don't like the AC anymore or the VOR, so why not change to an event or sport that you enjoy? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

I've been reading this thread on and off with mild interest.  I don't see that Dalts is involved much with the current VOR other than offering conjecture.

I think you are missing a little history. Dalts completed seven round the world races, fives as the Whitbread and two as the VOR before, getting involved with the AC.

IIRC, New Zealand has been a stopover in every iteration of the event.

Please feel free to correct.

Hey, I'm fine with him competing there. That's all good. What's not good is trying to merge certain things of the VOR with his AC Business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DFL1010 said:

 

New Zealand didn't have a stopover in 1973/74 (Whitbread, obviously) or 2008/09 races.

Thanks for that.  I probably should have know the 73/74 since my dad was in that, but then I was only 7 or so!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OBRS announced. Stoked to Jen Edney made the list. Enjoy the ride, rockstar!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and Clean missed the list :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/25/2017 at 9:10 PM, Alinghi4ever said:

I'm not trolling. I just have an absolute distaste for Grant Dalton. You want me to be totally honest: I want his head on a plate. I can't stand him and he once and for all should stick to his beloved TNZ and leave the other Sailing Events alone.

I can hear your German Jackboots marching on the ground. You germans sure have a desire for wanting peoples head on a plate. You and your great grandfather adolf  would make a great team with your "final solution" for Grant Dalton. Who would thought a German psycho path would exists. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/28/2017 at 3:10 AM, Alinghi4ever said:

Fine, why doesn't he stick to his AC then. Why does he intervene into VOR? They are some things in the AC Press Conference he never should have said. I like it when Events stay for themselves.

TNZ should be prohibited from having a Team in the 2017/18 VOR and Auckland should be scrubbed as Stopover.

Jealousy...the old green eyed monster. Dalton sailed and won the whitbread before he sailed and won the AC. He is a Volvo Ocean Race icon, and now an Americas Cup icon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, DtM said:

and Clean missed the list :lol:

didn't apply this time.  Daughter the wrong age for me to leave.  Bouwe did call and ask me to apply though, because he wanted me aboard with him.  Oh well!  Will be doing some VOR podcasts next week: Bouwe, Simeon, Carlin, and some others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scallywag has appeared in Falmouth (UK). No pics 'cos it's chucking it down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DFL1010 said:

Scallywag has appeared in Falmouth (UK). No pics 'cos it's chucking it down.

Probably going to check out the tide gates and bay wind conditions between Lands End and Cowes on the way to Cowes for the start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

Probably going to check out the tide gates and bay wind conditions between Lands End and Cowes on the way to Cowes for the start.

No need to stop in Falmouth for that. Forecast for tonight is a bit breezy, maybe they are just taking it easy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Potter said:

No need to stop in Falmouth for that. Forecast for tonight is a bit breezy, maybe they are just taking it easy. 

 

Maybe they just fancied a pasty and a decent pint?

Betty_stogs_cutout_hero_new-1920x3200-c-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Potter said:

No need to stop in Falmouth for that. Forecast for tonight is a bit breezy, maybe they are just taking it easy. 

Doesn't matter what tonight's forecast says, the race doesn't start until Sunday next. But in a true westerly or true easterly wind, and particularly if the wind is light and the tides strong either on the outbound or the return leg, then how you play it between Cowes and Lands End outbound or Lands End and Plymouth on return is critical to doing well. Local knowledge is invaluable. After Lands End it's pretty much equal odds for everyone with the information a large proportion of the fleet have, whatever the conditions.

I'm sure Charlie has been studying that, he showed his skill in that area several times in the last race, particularly on the approach to the Lisbon finish!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And even more particularly, in the way Charlie played the tides and breeze in leg along the French coast to the stopover in the Hague!!!! This and my last post should have acknowledged the role of his navigator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only two boats left to get to England...Scallywag and DongFeng and they are on their way.  I certainly believe these teams will be heading out and testing tides/winds for the next week, but seeing as how they seem to be all docked near each other, I figure some sparring will occur as well.  

A shame the 8th boat (aka SCA) was not able to join the fleet.  Unless magic occurs we will get to see the first jousts of seven boats starting Aug 6th and it will be fun to watch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, bucc5062 said:


A shame the 8th boat (aka SCA) was not able to join the fleet.

I haven't quite given up on Team Eight yet. The fact that it hasn't shown up yet doesn't prove that it doesn't exist. (Deliberate double negative) There's a whole host of professionals out there that could crew a 'works team' for the Fastnet. Several teams are still selecting crew, why not one more. Maybe VOR has given up, but I'm inclined to agree with Jack about a VOR65 gathering dust in October. That would put quite a tarnish on VOR, not to mention 'egg on the face'.

As to the possibility of jousts, anyone care to speculate on which of the VOR boats will be first to finish the Fastnet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

I haven't quite given up on Team Eight yet. The fact that it hasn't shown up yet doesn't prove that it doesn't exist. (Deliberate double negative) There's a whole host of professionals out there that could crew a 'works team' for the Fastnet. Several teams are still selecting crew, why not one more. Maybe VOR has given up, but I'm inclined to agree with Jack about a VOR65 gathering dust in October. That would put quite a tarnish on VOR, not to mention 'egg on the face'.

As to the possibility of jousts, anyone care to speculate on which of the VOR boats will be first to finish the Fastnet?

Dongfeng it they can get their ass out of France.  Opps, spoke too soon.  The fleet is gathered.  The fSCA boat has not left it's position so short of a sprint where by they hit the line running in six days...It would so easy for someone over there to just wander near the yard and snap a shot.  FFS, this is not area 51 here.  Is it white, is it branded, is it in the water.  Who lives around there that can take a picture.

Anyway,

Dongfeng
11th
TAKZN
Brunnel
T**3
Mapfre
Scallywag

DF is the clear favorite (not who I'm cheering for), 11th and TAKZN have had a lot of time with the boat, Brunnel not as much, but ...Bouwie.  T**3  may surprise and Mapfre could beat them.  SCallywag wher e ti is based on no time on boat and lack of experience in VO65.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't write Scallywag off too quickly particularly in heavy weather. They have only been at it in Lisbon training for a short time but it won't take them long to get a feel of the 65. As for experience I am assuming Matt Humphries and similiar are on board to add that, I think he has been around 5 or 6 times? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wouldn't write Scallywag off too quickly particularly in heavy weather. They have only been at it in Lisbon training for a short time but it won't take them long to get a feel of the 65. As for experience I am assuming Matt Humphries and similiar are on board to add that, I think he has been around 5 or 6 times? 

Okay, so my list is slightly biased and I'd not make a great analyst in this regard.  I did put in the top tier DF, Brunnel, and 11th, the next tier is Mapfre and TAKN, and finally T*3 and Scallywag and that's for the main event.  One guy cannot carry a ship and sailing with 7 around the world....not sure if that's smart.  There are some experienced VOR sailors in the top three, some in the next and while I am going to be cheering for Dee, I see her campaign as educational, not top tier competitive, but I hope she proves me wrong.

I see the VO65 start is @ 740 EST so I can see it at home since work is not friendly to sailing.  

 

IRC Z & VO65 Pennant 0 12:30 12:36 12:39 12:40

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

The fSCA boat has not left it's position so short of a sprint where by they hit the line running in six days...It would so easy for someone over there to just wander near the yard and snap a shot.  FFS, this is not area 51 here.  Is it white, is it branded, is it in the water.  Who lives around there that can take a picture.

Hi bucc5062, what are you using for ex-SCA's position? The locator beacon isn't necessarily on - naughty yes -  but if one was trying to keep a boat's position secret and one keeps a sharp lookout, why not? And what if it's a totally different MMSI number anyway, and its name isn't SCA?  Just keeping hope alive!! Still, I agree that it would be good to have local proof that it is still in Lisbon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

Hi bucc5062, what are you using for ex-SCA's position? The locator beacon isn't necessarily on - naughty yes -  but if one was trying to keep a boat's position secret and one keeps a sharp lookout, why not? And what if it's a totally different MMSI number anyway, and its name isn't SCA?  Just keeping hope alive!! Still, I agree that it would be good to have local proof that it is still in Lisbon.

Yes, I'm using the last MMSI number and it is valid from 2015...so....I hate surprises.  Either VOR tell the world 8's in the mix or say "it ain't happening"... the game playing is bullshit after while.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

Yes, I'm using the last MMSI number and it is valid from 2015...so....I hate surprises.  Either VOR tell the world 8's in the mix or say "it ain't happening"... the game playing is bullshit after while.

I checked and I don't think you can actually turn off an AIS transponder if its connected or if it has battery power. I was going to say something about it ain't over til the ---, but The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel movie said it with no physical or gender qualifications. If it hasn't happened, it isn't over yet!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/29/2017 at 2:46 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

didn't apply this time.  Daughter the wrong age for me to leave.  Bouwe did call and ask me to apply though, because he wanted me aboard with him.  Oh well!  Will be doing some VOR podcasts next week: Bouwe, Simeon, Carlin, and some others.

.....aww krikey,,, we came sorta close to having to put up with...   ''me,me, me,,,,,,mommy mommy,,, I'm cold and scared,,,me, me, me......''..... for a whole VO... I'm very thankful you had a child. :mellow:

 

20 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

I haven't quite given up on Team Eight yet. The fact that it hasn't shown up yet doesn't prove that it doesn't exist. (Deliberate double negative) There's a whole host of professionals out there that could crew a 'works team' for the Fastnet. Several teams are still selecting crew, why not one more. Maybe VOR has given up, but I'm inclined to agree with Jack about a VOR65 gathering dust in October. That would put quite a tarnish on VOR, not to mention 'egg on the face'.

As to the possibility of jousts, anyone care to speculate on which of the VOR boats will be first to finish the Fastnet?

.....not bad to have a spare boat on hand in case some nav forgets to zoom in.     Where's Wouter these days, anyways :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

.....aww krikey,,, we came sorta close to having to put up with...   ''me,me, me,,,,,,mommy mommy,,, I'm cold and scared,,,me, me, me......''..... for a whole VO... I'm very thankful you had a child. :mellow:

 

.....not bad to have a spare boat on hand in case some nav forgets to zoom in.     Where's Wouter these days, anyways :rolleyes:

As memory serves, they didn't pull out the spare, but repaired the art deco'd one instead.  If the option for getting a new hull was smashing the old one up, we'd might see a race to the bottom, literally.  All's I know is that this world has a bunch of rich pansy's that decry "12 million is too much daddy, just too much to play on a boat", but thewn will go out and by a fucking private jet or worse, some mega yacht that may ride on a few days out of the year.

Rich people disgust me, not so much because they are rich, but because they flaming tightwads; like they can take it with them when they go to hell.  Religious people keep trying to tell them paper money will burn, gold will melt, so spent while you can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Miffy said:

I see Liz Wardley and... Ellen MacArthur?

Can't make out any faces, but unless Libby is deliberately tweeting misinformation, she isn't on board.  She's offering weather information to anyone who wants it.  Pity. Maybe that's Ellen Macarthur's role, for now, although her website says she's retired?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ellen has not been an active racer for nearly a decade. She is not on the crew. Though if she was available that would be amazing.

Not sure when this interview was done, but Dee talking about the Fastnet and preparations. 

Dee interview 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

I checked and I don't think you can actually turn off an AIS transponder if its connected or if it has battery power.

They can be put into "listening mode" (receive but not send) quite easily via a PC based program.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

They can be put into "listening mode" (receive but not send) quite easily via a PC based program.

You can also fit a switch to the aerial power...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

They can be put into "listening mode" (receive but not send) quite easily via a PC based program.

Thanks for the info.

1 minute ago, Potter said:

You can also fit a switch to the aerial power...

And thanks again, but the real issue was whether there could be a 'stealth VOR65' out there, and today's VOR 'news' articles indicate that Team Eight is DOA, not MIA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure looks like team 8 is pining for the fiords. Sadly. There is no realistic chance a stealth team would make leg 0, and that is about it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just heard through the grapevine #8 will be a starter subject to sign off in a month or so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Francis Vaughan said:

Sure looks like team 8 is pining for the fiords. Sadly. There is no realistic chance a stealth team would make leg 0, and that is about it.  

Agree... I hope that the boat will be on the starting line in Alicante.

The 8th boat is behind the 8th ball ;-P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Just heard through the grapevine #8 will be a starter subject to sign off in a month or so.

OK, Wow!.  So, how do they manage leg 0 as a component of the race proper I wonder?  A dispensation from the VOR obviously, but given how much the VOR are spruking leg 0 as a critical prelude, I wonder how they will spin this.

You do really need to give a bit more of a hint than just "grapevine."  (pretty please...)

I guess we all felt that leaving boat 8 in the dock was never going to be a good look.  But this isn't just 11th hour stuff, this is Minutes to Midnight.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Francis Vaughan said:

OK, Wow!..

You do really need to give a bit more of a hint than just "grapevine."  (pretty please...)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

OK, Wow!.  So, how do they manage leg 0 as a component of the race proper I wonder?  A dispensation from the VOR obviously, but given how much the VOR are spruking leg 0 as a critical prelude, I wonder how they will spin this.

You do really need to give a bit more of a hint than just "grapevine."  (pretty please...)

I guess we all felt that leaving boat 8 in the dock was never going to be a good look.  But this isn't just 11th hour stuff, this is Minutes to Midnight.

 

grapevine + australia... the plot thinkens! :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And we have confirmation that the Liz Wardley is going to be with Turn the Tide. Can't think of a better person to look after your boat than a boatyard captain who spent all her time off working out getting ready for the next VOR :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to see Liz has got a confirmed job on Dee's boat.

Really surprised that she wasn't offered one long ago, before Dee's project got off the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, staysail said:

Glad to see Liz has got a confirmed job on Dee's boat.

Really surprised that she wasn't offered one long ago, before Dee's project got off the ground.

 

VOR65 boats aren't very well suited for shorter/smaller people. Forgot what the number was but even for men teams last cycle, basically doesn't matter if you're the god of trimming/helm and what not, if you're not 175cm you're not going to get a spot on some boats.

One thing hopefully the new gen boats will do better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Miffy said:

 

VOR65 boats aren't very well suited for shorter/smaller people. Forgot what the number was but even for men teams last cycle, basically doesn't matter if you're the god of trimming/helm and what not, if you're not 175cm you're not going to get a spot on some boats.

One thing hopefully the new gen boats will do better.

Neanderthal male logic. Liz is probably a better all round rough weather ocean sailor than the majority of men on the other boats and if you want to get someone super tough to the top of the rig to fix something quickly, being small is no handicap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, staysail said:

Neanderthal male logic. Liz is probably a better all round rough weather ocean sailor than the majority of men on the other boats and if you want to get someone super tough to the top of the rig to fix something quickly, being small is no handicap.

Love the way you've assumed Miffy is male there...

I can actually see some logic in what Miffy points out there. I went for a climb around on SCA before the last Volvo and remember commenting that even at a fairly tall 6ft/182cm (I'm female - just to be clear) the helming position wasn't going to be comfy for someone much shorter than me, similar with pedestal positions. Some boats aren't set up well for those of a shorter frame (just like there are some boats I don't choose to sail because I'm too tall to find them comfy). Hence why Ellen's boat back in the day was custom fit to her shorter frame.

I don't believe Miffy was saying the 175cm issue was specific to the VOR65's, but that generally there are some boats where the set up is a PITA for shorter folks of whatever gender. If you've got to be on that helm, or on those grinders, for long periods, if they really don't suit your height you're going to end up with one hell of a bad back and not be able to do it for so long at max tempo.

Its just one consideration among many when selecting your crew for a particular type of boat - I agree there are many roles on board where being shorter/smaller is absolutely no handicap (I've spent years hanging out with my Mini-me's match racing - they needed me for hiking and pulling kites up and jibs in, and I needed them for dropping to the low side to trim and prepping the bow in a heavy blow - everyone had their place in the team!) and its great to see another woman doing the Volvo. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And so it starts.

 

Interesting credits too. I wonder if we'll see more of that on the team media side. Images VOR OBR Jeremie Lecaudey, edits by Eloi Stichelbaut DongFeng Race Team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, staysail said:

Neanderthal male logic. Liz is probably a better all round rough weather ocean sailor than the majority of men on the other boats and if you want to get someone super tough to the top of the rig to fix something quickly, being small is no handicap.

George Peet is one of the best trimmers anywhere, and pound for pound one of the strongest, but at about Liz's height he could not get a ride after ABN2 entirely because of his diminutive size.  He won several world championships, was one of the top US Moth sailors, and crushes it in big boats, but because of the crew number requirements, size is always at a premium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as we're reading (too much) into things, I thought this tweet had some interesting wording:

"most of..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, staysail said:

Neanderthal male logic. Liz is probably a better all round rough weather ocean sailor than the majority of men on the other boats and if you want to get someone super tough to the top of the rig to fix something quickly, being small is no handicap.

 

I struggle to understand how what I said above is male. Have you ever stepped abroad a VOR65 and seen how high the handholds are? Or how little visibility a smaller person has at the helm even with the elevated platforms? Like I said above, I hope the next gen boats address this issue because while the first OD effort involved a lot of good veterans to make the boats functional, they appeared to have designed them around someone who is 185cm. 

 

2 hours ago, Heavy Woman said:

Love the way you've assumed Miffy is male there...

I can actually see some logic in what Miffy points out there. I went for a climb around on SCA before the last Volvo and remember commenting that even at a fairly tall 6ft/182cm (I'm female - just to be clear) the helming position wasn't going to be comfy for someone much shorter than me, similar with pedestal positions. Some boats aren't set up well for those of a shorter frame (just like there are some boats I don't choose to sail because I'm too tall to find them comfy). Hence why Ellen's boat back in the day was custom fit to her shorter frame.

I don't believe Miffy was saying the 175cm issue was specific to the VOR65's, but that generally there are some boats where the set up is a PITA for shorter folks of whatever gender. If you've got to be on that helm, or on those grinders, for long periods, if they really don't suit your height you're going to end up with one hell of a bad back and not be able to do it for so long at max tempo.

Its just one consideration among many when selecting your crew for a particular type of boat - I agree there are many roles on board where being shorter/smaller is absolutely no handicap (I've spent years hanging out with my Mini-me's match racing - they needed me for hiking and pulling kites up and jibs in, and I needed them for dropping to the low side to trim and prepping the bow in a heavy blow - everyone had their place in the team!) and its great to see another woman doing the Volvo. 

Thank you :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guess that means that a few more have a ride.

At this time 4/13 are listed on teams. That leaves 9. Sam is off to the IMOCA, Justine seems to have a Figaro campaign. That leaves 7. Enough for another 7+2 team. ;)
0/2 of the OBR are a repeat.

Even without the mystery team we should see more about the remaining crews.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those knowing of AIS workings, at some point will they or can they change the name of the boat?  We have at least three boats that are different names and it is a pain to keep translating and it would seem confusing to other vessels.

 

Capture.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The MMSIs are assigned to the boats - they can either rename them with the registration authority, or delist the existing MMSI and get a new one. Probably just a little behind in getting the paperwork done - they're still working on getting all the registration stuff ready for Fastnet. 

http://www.rolexfastnetrace.com/downloads/images/2017_news/2017-RFR-Entry-List-All-Classes-290717.pdf

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

re "most of".  Unless airlifted, it would seem impossible to get #8 on the line in time.  I so want to cling to Jack's painful release of information, but his credibility...I dunno.   I can see VOR waving the leg 0 requirement if in between now and them the mystery team takes a flyer across the pond and back or at least to the Azores.  I don't really see where racing in a large fleet of boats is any more viable training then a cruise to there and back again.

I keep pounding out the point that this little mystery can be broken in a moment if a camera is pointed at fSCA and at some point it goes into the shop a white boat and comes out colorful.

Just for fun, a little google maps shows this below.  Not certain exactly where the Boatyard is located, I snagged those where it said VOR.  Not sure if that is a VO70 sitting there or a tarted up 65, but I could not see any VO style hulls along the water line.  Where is SCA parked and if it would be around that section, where is the hull?  MarineTraffic last recorded it in that location back in 2015.

Hmmmm.......

Capture2.JPG

Capture1.JPG

Capture3.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's just the VOR museum in Alicante. 

My understanding is a team can also qualify by doing the 2,000 sea mile qualification. Not insubstantial considering the obligations required re getting yacht master certification and other mandatory training. There isn't going to be an intentional effort to subterfuge team #8 until the last minute - no one is going to hide participation. The reality is simply that it has taken this long and nothing solid has materialized yet. 

Boat 1 is sunk cost ready for team 8, but team 8 has not been offered at the right price. Could VOR waive it altogether for a bare bones team? Maybe. But it isn't by design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Miffy said:

 

I struggle to understand how what I said above is male. Have you ever stepped abroad a VOR65 and seen how high the handholds are? Or how little visibility a smaller person has at the helm even with the elevated platforms? Like I said above, I hope the next gen boats address this issue because while the first OD effort involved a lot of good veterans to make the boats functional, they appeared to have designed them around someone who is 185cm. 

 

Thank you :)

Yes I have, and neither seem to be a problem to me, and neither Liz nor Sam (two of the smaller ones on SCA) seem to have had any difficulty handling that boat or seeing where they are going. Maybe they are a bit tougher/cleverer than you think! Don't forget they won the tough upwind leg to Lorient. You do not have to be a big person to be a top ocean racer.

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg

6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shrug. You seem hell bent on trying to frame what I said as saying height dictates sailing ability. When I keep trying to highlight the difficulty of making ergonomics work on a VOR65 when you're not as tall as a standard northern European. Like I said, it is a height issue presented by this class of boats - smaller men have the same difficulty as smaller women. And again - I hope they address this for the VO60s.


Based on what I recall in discussions re margin of safety in VO and what you've previously termed as "not true sailing" - I think you just like to dig in a pretend argument and keep at it. Fortunately it takes 2 and I'll just ignore it now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Miffy said:

That's just the VOR museum in Alicante. 

My understanding is a team can also qualify by doing the 2,000 sea mile qualification. Not insubstantial considering the obligations required re getting yacht master certification and other mandatory training. There isn't going to be an intentional effort to subterfuge team #8 until the last minute - no one is going to hide participation. The reality is simply that it has taken this long and nothing solid has materialized yet. 

Boat 1 is sunk cost ready for team 8, but team 8 has not been offered at the right price. Could VOR waive it altogether for a bare bones team? Maybe. But it isn't by design.

Your last sentence is not quite clear, but I think I get the jist.

If that is the museum, where is the Boatyard?  Nothing stood out, nor could I seem to find another VOR hull.

Well a trip to the Azores and back would take care of that.  Hiding participation could be a real thing which is why I find it curious that sailing reporters bloggers  or fans around Alicante could not monitor or check in just to see if there is movement.  Is there still a white hull in the same spot as before?  Making Fastnet is over, but Oct is two months away and plenty of time to get a qualifier in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Miffy said:

The perm boatyard is in Lisbon. 38.695,-9.23

Yes, I found the spot and your numbers confirm it.

Where is it now? and where is fSCA?  I'm guessing the Boatyard is in Portsmouth, because it sure as heck in not in Lisbon, at least parked where it was.  as to fSCA,I figure they got a new MMSI number on that boat which is why my Marine traffic has it in it's last place from 2015.  

There are 7 boats in the water in the commodore yachting marina, but not current enough Sat images to see where the BY is set up, because that would be where I'd put fSCA since it was not left back in Lisbon.

Where is that 8th boat now?

Just for fun I sent a message off to the boatyard.  Not sure if they will answer, but what the heck.

Capture4.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

George Peet is one of the best trimmers anywhere, and pound for pound one of the strongest, but at about Liz's height he could not get a ride after ABN2 entirely because of his diminutive size.  He won several world championships, was one of the top US Moth sailors, and crushes it in big boats, but because of the crew number requirements, size is always at a premium.

Well, Liz has a ride so what does that say about what your opinion is worth?

... or are you tryiong to say Liz has only got a ride because she is a girl?

... or what exactly is the point you are so laboriously trying to make?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

George Peet is one of the best trimmers anywhere, and pound for pound one of the strongest, but at about Liz's height he could not get a ride after ABN2 entirely because of his diminutive size.

3 hours ago, staysail said:

neither Liz nor Sam (two of the smaller ones on SCA) seem to have had any difficulty handling that boat or seeing where they are going. Maybe they are a bit tougher/cleverer than you think! Don't forget they won the tough upwind leg to Lorient. You do not have to be a big person to be a top ocean racer.

 

Trimmers don't have to be tall today, they only have to be able to reach the winch drum and hold the sheet and call "grind", and once the grinder sees the sheet being eased, the grinder stops grinding, if he/she has any sense. Maybe on ABN2 it was different, but I was a trimmer long before then, and before that there was a time long long ago when one trimmed with a winch handle in the other hand, even on a 44ft! And I agree with staysail about 'shorter' people being able to handle boats and see where they are going. The SCA photos show that clearly. The VOR65 has two wheels and both have clear sight along the side deck.  Someone not tall enough to see above the hub of the wheel would be in trouble, but nobody else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No such position as a trimmer only on these boats... which being on their ear all the time your better off tall with one leg shorter than the other. They are a grinding platform nightmare.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

No such position as a trimmer only on these boats... which being on their ear all the time your better off tall with one leg shorter than the other. They are a grinding platform nightmare.

 

 

 

 ... boat for a welsh sheep?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

No such position as a trimmer only on these boats... which being on their ear all the time your better off tall with one leg shorter than the other.

Sorry Jack, they grind athwartship on a VOR65, i.e. one high and one low, and my post included trimmer, helm and by inference going up the f---g mast, As for staysail that's a real old UK joke like about 70 years plus.

Still pleased that Liz got a ride and that AkzoNobel now has two women.

So Team Eight is MICA (missing in current action) not MIA or DOA. Pity nobody on this forum appears to know what the actaul qualification requirements for this race are. Maybe there's some small print at the bottom of the sponsor application form that says " we reserve the right to change every and all rules and requirements as we see fit"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So would you rather have Boat 8 sit in the shed just because it hasn't done Fastnet or a trip across the Atlantic?

Given the likely crew a 2000 mile shakedown will be plenty and I would expect some will have sailed the VO65 before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

Trimmers don't have to be tall today, they only have to be able to reach the winch drum and hold the sheet and call "grind", and once the grinder sees the sheet being eased, the grinder stops grinding, if he/she has any sense. Maybe on ABN2 it was different, but I was a trimmer long before then, and before that there was a time long long ago when one trimmed with a winch handle in the other hand, even on a 44ft! And I agree with staysail about 'shorter' people being able to handle boats and see where they are going. The SCA photos show that clearly. The VOR65 has two wheels and both have clear sight along the side deck.  Someone not tall enough to see above the hub of the wheel would be in trouble, but nobody else.

That's nice in theory, but doesn't always work. You'd be right if all you ever had to do was trim or steer. But what about those awkward moments?  I've never been on a VO65, but have had to reef an SC 70 many times. At 6'2", it can be hard to reach what you need to. At 5 feet and change, it'd be hilarious. 

That's not a slight on women. The vast majority of boats I've raced on were mixed crew, and many of the women were better sailors than I'll ever be. However...  the world's best five foot ladder isn't very useful if you need a six foot one to do the job. 

This is professional racing. Someone's body type (guy or girl), very much factors into the equation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, DtM said:

So would you rather have Boat 8 sit in the shed just because it hasn't done Fastnet or a trip across the Atlantic?

I don't have 'would rathers', but like most people I prefer always to see fair play. Even if sponsors are prepared to accept open ended contracts, I'm disappointed that professional sailors might be. VOR made such a fuss about Leg Zero. It should have been quite simple for VOR to put the last boat on the start line for the Fastnet, (hell it was ready weeks ago) and go on from there, i.e. have the boat complete at least the first leg of Leg Zero, and then switcharoo.  In my opinion, not being on that start line is an insult to all the sponsors and crews that did make it, even if some crew are still auditioning. If it's in the small print of the sponsor contract so be it, but if VOR wants an honorable reputation then it better well earn it!!! Right now it stinks to high heaven!

14 minutes ago, Monkey said:

but have had to reef an SC 70 many times. At 6'2", it can be hard to reach what you need to. At 5 feet and change, it'd be hilarious.

I have no knowledge of an SC 70, but on the majority of 65ft and smaller boats built within the last 35 years you can help reef if you can at lest reach the forward end of the boom, and on many I don't believe that you even have to do that any more.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you seriously think that VOR would not have Boat 8 at Fastnet if it had a team? Really.

Honourable reputation!! What a load of sanctimonious crap.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Listen, I'll freely accept I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but when I google maps the spot were the BY is suppose to be, it ain't there and google says it took the picture in 2017.  They tell me they are there so a camera shot tomorrow would prove that out.  Anyone live in or know someone in Lisbon who can walk (boat) and take a photo.  If they are not there then where is fSCA.  

CLEAN is too busy getting of on his foils so I doubt he'd do any kind of research, but it would not take much effort from someone near Lisbon to put to rest if fSCA is dry docked in Lisbon, wet docked in Lisbon, or not.  Hell, if I spoke Spanish I'd even try calling a local newspaper, just to see if they'd investigate.

If not....where is she? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, DtM said:

Do you seriously think that VOR would not have Boat 8 at Fastnet if it had a team? Really.

If VOR wants to protect 'its brand', then, yes I do believe that it should have had the, as yet, unassigned boat on the start line for the Fastnet. In my opinion, it is just a question of commitment, or the small print in the sponsor contract. Hell, couldn't the boat yard and a whole host of others have formed a work's team to keep it 'honest'? I haven't the faintest idea what a 'brand' is worth, but that is what VOR is asking sponsors to do, step up and pay the price of 'your brand'.

As to sanctimonious, that's your 'brand', not mine!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Listen, I'll freely accept I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but when I google maps the spot were the BY is suppose to be, it ain't there and google says it took the picture in 2017.  They tell me they are there so a camera shot tomorrow would prove that out.  Anyone live in or know someone in Lisbon who can walk (boat) and take a photo.  If they are not there then where is fSCA.  

CLEAN is too busy getting of on his foils so I doubt he'd do any kind of research, but it would not take much effort from someone near Lisbon to put to rest if fSCA is dry docked in Lisbon, wet docked in Lisbon, or not.  Hell, if I spoke Spanish I'd even try calling a local newspaper, just to see if they'd investigate.

If not....where is she? 

 

The boat yard is right where I showed you. They refurbished all the boats and fitted out new boat 8 out of two fish warehouses and a tent. There's even a tent with the word boat yard. 

 

No one is screwing with you. Boat 1, formerly SCA is inLisbon . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

 

50 minutes ago, DtM said:

Do you seriously think that VOR would not have Boat 8 at Fastnet if it had a team? Really.

Honourable reputation!! What a load of sanctimonious crap.

 

When did being honorable become sanctimonious.  Let's look at it simply.  Last round, did VOR have 7 or 8 boats built?  If eight then perhaps there is an argument that the have no need to push 8 on the line.  However, if only 7 were built and they put 7, then they honored the effort to get all boats racing.

Now we have 8 (it we didn't before).  I've been on the path of where is the 8th boat and not a one seems to care (which is sad), because where it is would say a lot about what would happen to it.  Is it in Lisbon?  Is it in Portsmouth?  We, meaning the VOR fans have a missing boat and at this point, that is more intriguing than if a 5'5 sailor can handle a position on a VO65 (really?  we're arguing height?  Question,  average sailor that stands 6' or very experienced 5'5" Salt that can react before the shit flies...choose)
 

CLEAN is pimping AC35 models, but heaven forbid he attempts to figure out if VOR is dishing out "fake news" or even trying to find a 65' boat.  You're right CLEAN, maybe I do need to be your editor.  Hire me.  You try to talk to Mark, your best bud, like he'd tell you something instead of actually investigating something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Miffy said:

 

The boat yard is right where I showed you. They refurbished all the boats and fitted out new boat 8 out of two fish warehouses and a tent. There's even a tent with the word boat yard. 

 

No one is screwing with you. Boat 1, formerly SCA is inLisbon . 

Fine...give me a picture.  I understand no one is screwing with me...the point is, no one is able to show something as simple as a boat on stilts, in a yard.  If I lived there I'd do it myself, but surely all these seasoned blue water sailors have a friend in Lisbon that can take a picture.

Technically, new boat 8 is old formally SCA. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For Christ's sake, it is not the boat that needs to do the shakedown sail  and/or the Fastnet it is the crew.  ExSCA we already know can sail around the world.  So having a works crew that is not the VOR crew sail Fastnet  does not fix anything.

There is a previous photo of the unbranded Boat 8 in this thread ( I can't be bothered to find it) sitting on the hard next to the just painted Brunel (I think).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DtM said:

For Christ's sake, it is not the boat that needs to do the shakedown sail  and/or the Fastnet it is the crew.

No need for that, nor is anyone saying the boat needs a shakedown sail. The point of the current absence of an eighth team and its corresponding boat is that I, and I believe many others on this forum, understood that to do the forthcoming VOR race, boats had to complete Leg Zero and the Prologue to qualify. I say boats because we know that at least one team is still selecting crew and Bouwe is also being very coy, so crew isn't the criterion. The criterion was understood to be the boat doing Leg Zero and the Prologue . If that is not the case, and you know that categorically, then say so, but you're about a month too late doing it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Notice of Race.

8. QUALIFICATIONS TO RACE.

8.1 Prior to the Assembly Date, each Boat entered in the Race must complete open

qualification races as required and approved by the OA. Crews for qualification races

shall be at least 60% (rounded up) of the Crew Members for Leg 1 The 60% shall

contain at least the Person in Charge, a Reserve Person in Charge and the navigator.

The qualification races are:

(i) Leg Zero August 2017- incorporating a Round the Isle of Wight Race for

VO65 yachts during Cowes Week, the Rolex Fastnet Race and a race for

VO65 yachts from Plymouth to Lisbon with a Pit stop in St Malo.

(ii) Prologue - for Volvo Ocean 65 Class Boats October 2017 Lisbon to

Alicante.

8.2 These qualification races may contain the following: a dock-out ceremony and arrivals

ceremony, fitting and sailing with the emergency steering the rescue kite, complete a

man overboard recovery, and other tasks as may be specified by the RC, these shall

be recorded on video and other forms of media and transmitted back to race control.

Full testing of all communications equipment through race control.

8.3 Should a Boat entered in the Race be unable to complete any one of the qualification

races or passages in NOR 8.1 or 8.2 or any of their requirements she shall complete

a race or passage or fulfil the requirements as directed by the OA before she starts in

the Race.

8.4 The Team shall supply a crew list to the OA for the qualification race(s) or passage(s)

in NOR 8.1 and 8.2 at least 48 hours before they start each event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

No need for that, nor is anyone saying the boat needs a shakedown sail. The point of the current absence of an eighth team and its corresponding boat is that I, and I believe many others on this forum, understood that to do the forthcoming VOR race, boats had to complete Leg Zero and the Prologue to qualify. I say boats because we know that at least one team is still selecting crew and Bouwe is also being very coy, so crew isn't the criterion. The criterion was understood to be the boat doing Leg Zero and the Prologue . If that is not the case, and you know that categorically, then say so, but you're about a month too late doing it!

Firstly, just read through the NOR, and you will see that the leg zero qualification can be a movable feast.

Secondly, the Fastnet is also able to change their qualification criteria, it is not unusual for an OA to allow for unusual circumstances. 

Thirdly, a photo of the unbranded boat 8 at the boatyard in Lisbon has already been posted in this thread.

Boat 8 is not currently in Gosport, will not be doing the Fastnet, and I hope they have a team that can get on it and do some suitable qualifying miles in the next month or so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks DtM and Potter. This thread was looking like shortly being a "I admit I'm Fuckin Insane" as a qualifier to post here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

This thread will shortly require a "I admit I'm Insane" as a qualifier to post. 

This is a new thing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am being driven insane by the endless conspiracy theories of Bucc and RS and their inability to read the Notice of Race and the SI's and posts on this thread.

So, I admit I am insane or at least well on the way !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DtM said:

8.3 Should a Boat entered in the Race be unable to complete any one of the qualification

races or passages in NOR 8.1 or 8.2 or any of their requirements she shall complete

a race or passage or fulfil the requirements as directed by the OA before she starts in

the Race.

This so-called rule, is the organisers "joker".

It simply means that there are no actual mandatory qualification requirements for sailing the boat, regardless of how it is crewed, and the organisers can decide at any time to allow any boat to sail with any crew without any pre-race sailing qualification whatsoever if it suits their objectives. As I see it the objectives now are simply to put on a profitable reality show, and this "rule" is just one example of how this can no longer be considered a serious sporting event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, staysail said:

This so-called rule, is the organisers "joker".

It simply means that there are no actual mandatory qualification requirements for sailing the boat, regardless of how it is crewed, and the organisers can decide at any time to allow any boat to sail with any crew without any pre-race sailing qualification whatsoever if it suits their objectives. As I see it the objectives now are simply to put on a profitable reality show, and this "rule" is just one example of how this can no longer be considered a serious sporting event.

Why? That rule exists in the NOR for the Fastnet, the Middle Sea Race, the Vendee Globe and many other offshore races. Possibly the Sydney Hobart, but I am less sure about that one.

It allows the organisers to get a boat into the Fleet without completing all qualifications; whilst at the same time enforces the requirements on any team they think need more experience.  It puts a lot of onus on the organisers, but that is their choice.

Why close the door to entry, when you can open it? If a team rocks up with no prior experience but a ton of cash then I am 100% certain Phil Lawrence would put a heavy alternative qualification process on them, if he allowed them to enter at all.

The whole leg zero process is surely what people here want, but why turn away a team with suitable experience, just because they took longer to raise the funds?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I add Staysail to the list of those that have driven me insane please?

What is the problem with you. Surely we all want 8 boats on the start line in October if that is possible.  How can that compromise it being a "serious sporting event". It is hardly likely that the organisers are going to allow complete novices with no training and a skipper with no qualifications.  But if a suitably qualified group of sailors (again try reading the NOR to find out what the very significant list of requirements is) with a sponsor roll up then let's get them racing. As Potter says keep the door open rather than shutting it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

Listen, I'll freely accept I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but when I google maps the spot were the BY is suppose to be, it ain't there and google says it took the picture in 2017.  They tell me they are there so a camera shot tomorrow would prove that out.  Anyone live in or know someone in Lisbon who can walk (boat) and take a photo.  If they are not there then where is fSCA.  

CLEAN is too busy getting of on his foils so I doubt he'd do any kind of research, but it would not take much effort from someone near Lisbon to put to rest if fSCA is dry docked in Lisbon, wet docked in Lisbon, or not.  Hell, if I spoke Spanish I'd even try calling a local newspaper, just to see if they'd investigate.

If not....where is she? 

So, lets's play the Satellite Anarchy joker in this game of Who Wants to Be a VOR sailor?.

Is it this lonely boat?

59818b4dc6106_Lisbontheboatyardenhanced2crop.png.9c26510f5e0f2c70ddc6e63e6299eb20.png
No, that is in July 2015. Size checks out though. (It's ADOR.)

Continued in next post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Potter said:

Why? That rule exists in the NOR for the Fastnet, the Middle Sea Race, the Vendee Globe and many other offshore races. Possibly the Sydney Hobart, but I am less sure about that one.

It allows the organisers to get a boat into the Fleet without completing all qualifications; whilst at the same time enforces the requirements on any team they think need more experience.  It puts a lot of onus on the organisers, but that is their choice.

Why close the door to entry, when you can open it? If a team rocks up with no prior experience but a ton of cash then I am 100% certain Phil Lawrence would put a heavy alternative qualification process on them, if he allowed them to enter at all.

The whole leg zero process is surely what people here want, but why turn away a team with suitable experience, just because they took longer to raise the funds?

In the races you quote, even if exactly the same "get out clause" rule exists (I haven't checked), the organisers are not building and renting out the boats. None of it is an issue once you accept this is a "managed show" and not a level playing field sporting competition.

Really what is the point in having all the carefully worded clauses in 8.1, 8.2 and 8.4 if in reality they can be made to appply to one crew, but at the whim of the organiser, they can all be swept magically aside for another? These rules are nothing more than the kind of spin one would expect from a politician..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it this lonely boat?59818bd98f16d_Lisbontheboatyard2017-04-23crop.png.b8ecba1390f9c4fa3984f8e59b4573fe.png
No, that is in mid April 2017.

Continued in next post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How does it look now? No idea, the Satellite Anarchy joker which comes with a time delay at no charge. The most recent pic is from early June:59818c10de0d4_Lisbontheboatyard2017-06-05crop.png.f148129f20f1e2d8e2048b886c7b9dc7.png

 

The Boatyard observations after looking at too many images: A single old design Boatyard appears in April 2016. Change to new design ("VOR") in January 2017, extension with a 2nd, shorter tent branded "The Boatyard" in April 2017.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, staysail said:

In the races you quote, even if exactly the same "get out clause" rule exists (I haven't checked), the organisers are not building and renting out the boats. None of it is an issue once you accept this is a "managed show" and not a level playing field sporting competition.

Really what is the point in having all the carefully worded clauses in 8.1, 8.2 and 8.4 if in reality they can be made to appply to one crew, but at the whim of the organiser, they can all be swept magically aside for another? These rules are nothing more than the kind of spin one would expect from a politician..

None of NOR 8 reduces the other crew requirements (which you might take the time to read). In any event, surely it is more likely that a new (but suitably qualified) crew on a refurbished xSCA will start "behind" the rest of the fleet so any "imbalance" in the system works against them rather than the other 7.

How is it a managed show rather than a level playing field competition?

Do you want 8 entries or not?   I do if it is possible. Keep the door open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now