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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
JeronimoII

VOR 2017-18

3,716 posts in this topic

Huh I read your comment and really don't understand what you're disagreeing about. 

Seems like we are both saying IMOCA, Mini6.5 are better places for experimental innovation. 

I didn't criticize foiling at all - but folks need to be realistic about expectations. Next gen VOR60 will foil, but they will not foil in lighter conditions than the top IMOCA, these boats have to be more robust. 

In re equip choices - yah there is convergence in how good teams sail the OD boats. We can introduce drama by giving boats a set of foils and daggerboards - and teams can use either or in combo however they wish. I suspect what we will find however, once the miles build up, diff teams will independently converge in how they sail. 

 

Oftentimes we hear ppl lament how VOR OD is boring. But I prefer racing between more teams teams over sponsor PR disasters where two teams are in the hunt, two others with bad breakage and rescue services are called (invites a lot of criticism re rich getting to enjoy hobbies at public's expense). 

The VOR65s can cross the Atlantic receive minimal care and turnaround and do it again. A lot of the new IMOCA foilers are so specialized for downwind foiling, the boat will bash itself into failure if the crew is pushing 100% in the conditions VOR face. 

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13 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Meh.  I don't agree at all.  There seems to be some correlation garnered between Open and structural failures.  Yes. There were and will be failures in large part due to experimentation and pushing the design envelope. If the IMOCA and Mini class didn't do it, who would?  What innovation would we have? As since the first RTW race, the previous races failures become standard equipment in the following races.   

You take for granted all the components the VO boats have borrowed from IMOCA/Mini innovations.  Which were the first offshore monos to have wide flat asses?  Canting keels?  Struts?  Twin rudders?  Rotating masts?  Pulling the mast aft and setting up double headsails (Comanche is a big IMOCA) and doing away with the spinnaker.  I'd even go as far to say that the development in the robustness of the auto pilots came out of these classes as well.  There isn't one design element in the VO65 that is original or innovative.  So why not adopt foils or DSS?  

That being said I don't think that the VO (unlike the Vendee) is a testing ground for innovation but I do think structural integrity is integral to the race.  The VO may be slower to adopt newer technology and design innovation but it should never quit doing so.

I also think there should be at least some wiggle room with choices in gear to make the damn thing more interesting.  Gear choices are as interesting and as pivotal as navigational and crew choices.  Bring the "boat" back into the discussion.  

Aren't gear choices also cost choices?  What I've gathered over the time reading posts and articles was the need to slow down cost build up.  It was driving sponsorship away because of the expense, and giving advantage to others that had deep pockets to spend.  One for all and all for one is the motto these days so if you want to complex up the sail plan for more options, everyone gets the same change.  swapping boards and foils (all still OD) may mix it up some, but they are just another performance aspect to the boat.

FV wants to dismiss the consideration of foils in regards to damage like they are a part of the boat.  I content they are not, just as sails are not.  You need rudders, you need a keel, you need a mast, but you don't need a foil to continue to sail (re Hugo Boss), you don't need all the sails (re SCA) so how they are controlled in the equation of performance and cost are a consideration.  

For the foreseeable future OD is here to stay.  Now the questions just revolve around performance, safety, cost and what will continue to make this event a draw for spectators. 

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4 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Huh I read your comment and really don't understand what you're disagreeing about. 

Seems like we are both saying IMOCA, Mini6.5 are better places for experimental innovation. 

I didn't criticize foiling at all - but folks need to be realistic about expectations. Next gen VOR60 will foil, but they will not foil in lighter conditions than the top IMOCA, these boats have to be more robust. 

In re equip choices - yah there is convergence in how good teams sail the OD boats. We can introduce drama by giving boats a set of foils and daggerboards - and teams can use either or in combo however they wish. I suspect what we will find however, once the miles build up, diff teams will independently converge in how they sail. 

"Yes there are folks who really care about top speed, avg speed and dream of the days when VOR boats were unique and broke apart in the ocean - but frankly, sponsors don't, and neither do most fans - who would pay more attention if the race is close and competitive. There will always be push/pull re whether OD should be more extreme or more reliable/safe, but I'd rather err on the side of the boat being so tough a team can ground it and it'll hold together for a night while they try to get off the boat in the dark."

 

I suppose I was disagreeing with the above second paragraph and previous posts from others that seem to think that speed and pushing the design element will only lead to structural failures.  The VO70's had their issues.  So did the VO65's.  Do you recall Iker epoxying battens on the hull of Mapfre forward of the bulkhead?  

I trust that by the time it comes to pulling the trigger on the new boats, a sufficient balance will be struck between structural integrity, weight and speed.  If not, I would imagine the idea to be abandoned.

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3 hours ago, southerncross said:

Do you recall Iker epoxying battens on the hull of Mapfre forward of the bulkhead?  

I thought that had a lot to do with the fact that some people on board had experienced delamination in the bow section in a previous VOR (VO70?), i.e. there was some doubt about the ruggedness of the VOR65. It proved to be unnecessary doubt, but they didn't know that at the time. Even with the OD aspect, what would you have done in that situation, gone on sailing and hoped for the best?

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23 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

I thought that had a lot to do with the fact that some people on board had experienced delamination in the bow section in a previous VOR (VO70?), i.e. there was some doubt about the ruggedness of the VOR65. It proved to be unnecessary doubt, but they didn't know that at the time. Even with the OD aspect, what would you have done in that situation?

Eat the captain.

 

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1 hour ago, Retired Sailor said:

I thought that had a lot to do with the fact that some people on board had experienced delamination in the bow section in a previous VOR (VO70?), i.e. there was some doubt about the ruggedness of the VOR65. It proved to be unnecessary doubt, but they didn't know that at the time. Even with the OD aspect, what would you have done in that situation, gone on sailing and hoped for the best?

 

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10 hours ago, southerncross said:

Eat the captain.

 

Finally a proper reply!

Because, really, the premise of gluing battens to the forward hull sections as a preventative measure against delamination, is farcical.

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10 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

I thought that had a lot to do with the fact that some people on board had experienced delamination in the bow section in a previous VOR (VO70?), i.e. there was some doubt about the ruggedness of the VOR65. It proved to be unnecessary doubt, but they didn't know that at the time. Even with the OD aspect, what would you have done in that situation, gone on sailing and hoped for the best?

Yes

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5 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Finally a proper reply!

Because, really, the premise of gluing battens to the forward hull sections as a preventative measure against delamination, is farcical.

 

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5 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Finally a proper reply!

Because, really, the premise of gluing battens to the forward hull sections as a preventative measure against delamination, is farcical.

well thats pretty much how Verdier structured all the vendee fleet that failed -a zillion tiny tophats in transverse direction, and as you say farcical way to deal with the loads.   Maybe he's learnt something from that, maybe not

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Bunch of of no bodies talking shit permanently. The crap you guys go on about is laughable. Would expect nothing more from SA,  especially that bearded fuck wit that thinks he's the boss.

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10 minutes ago, GBH said:

Verdier structured all the vendee fleet that failed

Which ones failed?   I really don't remember.

I think HH was saying using battens would be farcical.

In any event it was a new approach (not really new) and I'm sure, as always, much was learned.  

Didn't they first play with this idea on Commanche?

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2 hours ago, southerncross said:

Which ones failed?   I really don't remember.

I think HH was saying using battens would be farcical.

In any event it was a new approach (not really new) and I'm sure, as always, much was learned.  

Didn't they first play with this idea on Commanche?

I stand corrected in the verbiage.  But, I think that the use of battens to reinforce the hull panel that was oil canning, was more reactionary than preventative.

While scantlings can only be theoretically engineered, had the numbers been better crunched there would have been a greater section of stringers, frames and cants or the laminate schedule would have been more substantial, in the forward hull sections to deal with the anticipated slamming loads.  

I wonder how effective gluing flexible batten stock to the inside of a hull panel really was in increasing torsional resistance.

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Joshua one-design yacht to be inaugurated in 2022 Golden Globe Race

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Joshua-one-design-yacht-to-be-inaugurated-in-2022-Golden-Globe-Race/156611

Now the 2022 Golden Globe Race will provide the litmus test. A maximum fleet of 10 Joshua Golden Globe one-design yachts will make up a Class 2 start on Sunday August 21, 2022 approximately three weeks after the smaller Suhaili class yachts. The exact date will be determined from the average time that the first six yachts take to complete the 2018 Golden Globe Race. “The leading yachts in next year’s race are predicted to better Suhaili’s 313 day record by 40 – 50 days, so it is important to set a realistic rather than historic time gap between the two classes.” Race founder Don McIntyre explains.

The strict One-design rules also stipulate the number of sails that can be carried during the race, and to make it a completely level playing field, sails for all Joshua class yachts will be supplied by one official loft. And to further the spirit of Bernard Moitessier, competitors can use only replicas of Joshua’s original wind vane self steering system. There will be no room onboard for commercial steering systems.

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Exclusive first look at the next Volvo Ocean Race boat design

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9893_Exclusive-first-look-at-the-next-Volvo-Ocean-Race-boat-design.html

“We’ve created the Volvo Ocean Race Design Team as a collaboration, getting the best input from everywhere,” said Bice. “It’s going to be a very cool boat; imagine coming into the finish, in a harbour in 20 knots of breeze and you are going to see this thing fully airborne, foiling, at 35 to 40 knots.” 

Fully airborne.  Pretty ambitious. They must have some confidence in the T Foil rudders.  

Screen Shot 2017-08-23 at 12.38.21 PM.png

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2 hours ago, southerncross said:

Joshua one-design yacht to be inaugurated in 2022 Golden Globe Race

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Joshua-one-design-yacht-to-be-inaugurated-in-2022-Golden-Globe-Race/156611

Now the 2022 Golden Globe Race will provide the litmus test. A maximum fleet of 10 Joshua Golden Globe one-design yachts will make up a Class 2 start on Sunday August 21, 2022 approximately three weeks after the smaller Suhaili class yachts. The exact date will be determined from the average time that the first six yachts take to complete the 2018 Golden Globe Race. “The leading yachts in next year’s race are predicted to better Suhaili’s 313 day record by 40 – 50 days, so it is important to set a realistic rather than historic time gap between the two classes.” Race founder Don McIntyre explains.

The strict One-design rules also stipulate the number of sails that can be carried during the race, and to make it a completely level playing field, sails for all Joshua class yachts will be supplied by one official loft. And to further the spirit of Bernard Moitessier, competitors can use only replicas of Joshua’s original wind vane self steering system. There will be no room onboard for commercial steering systems.

First, that is a pretty cool story about the first race.  I applaud those sailors that will tackle this challenging event.  It will be one to watch when it takes place and I hope I'm able to follow it.

Now, given the comments found splattered all over this thread, a monohull one design full keeled boat with no foils, how boring will that be (not my view).  Where's the competition, the challenge, the speed.  Hell, most the kids these days won't bother as their attention span barely holds onto a foiling Cat doing 50.  

Quote

competitors can use only replicas of Joshua’s original wind vane self steering system. There will be no room onboard for commercial steering systems.

  I wonder, will they have routing software or are they truly going old school on the whole fleet.  I didn't read anything there.  If not, then it truly would be something to watch/track an OD RTW race in a classic boat, basic wx, navigation, and wind vane.  Pack mentality or best guess predictive and see what happens.

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“We don’t think there is any compromise to making a stand-alone Volvo Ocean Race boat comply with the IMOCA 60 rules. Although in Volvo mode, we will have another keel, we will have different rudders, foils, we will have a different rig on it,” said Bice.

The layout on a short hand deck is much different then fully crewed.  For one, the dog house is well aft.  Besides swapping keels I wonder how they plan to adapt the boat between the two races?  Interesting stuff.

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7 minutes ago, southerncross said:

“We don’t think there is any compromise to making a stand-alone Volvo Ocean Race boat comply with the IMOCA 60 rules. Although in Volvo mode, we will have another keel, we will have different rudders, foils, we will have a different rig on it,” said Bice.

The layout on a short hand deck is much different then fully crewed.  For one, the dog house is well aft.  Besides swapping keels I wonder how they plan to adapt the boat between the two races?  Interesting stuff.

I find it fascinating that they are trying for a plug and play hull to cover what would seem to be two very different types of races.  That is a bold idea.  Would the interior also be different, accommodating one vs many?  

Since they have mock ups, would their now already be line, CAD drawings?  That would certainly be telling and something to see.

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I've been away from this forum for a while due to no internet whilst sailing. Just got to port and caught up with the last 3 pages. Same old - same old! What really amazes me is that people think the VG type boat can/should be shared with a VOR type (or vice versa) and it could work.

And you people that still can't see the downsides of one design for long course ocean racing really need to take a step back! The 65s have problems! Just wait to see the next bunch of dogs!

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2 minutes ago, staysail said:

I've been away from this forum for a while due to no internet whilst sailing. Just got to port and caught up with the last 3 pages. Same old - same old! What really amazes me is that people think the VG type boat can/should be shared with a VOR type (or vice versa) and it could work.

And you people that still can't see the downsides of one design for long course ocean racing really need to take a step back! The 65s have problems! Just wait to see the next bunch of dogs!

Us people?  Feeling salty are we?   

I'm looking forward to a new, possibly, full foiling Verdier boat and how the technology will play out in the next generation VG fleet.  Adds a new dimension to the OD game that may (I say may) spread the fleet out a bit.

What do you mean about them being dogs with problems?  Slow?  Build quality?  Persico and Verdier have a pretty good track record recently wouldn't you say?

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2 hours ago, southerncross said:

Exclusive first look at the next Volvo Ocean Race boat design

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9893_Exclusive-first-look-at-the-next-Volvo-Ocean-Race-boat-design.html

“We’ve created the Volvo Ocean Race Design Team as a collaboration, getting the best input from everywhere,” said Bice. “It’s going to be a very cool boat; imagine coming into the finish, in a harbour in 20 knots of breeze and you are going to see this thing fully airborne, foiling, at 35 to 40 knots.” 

Fully airborne.  Pretty ambitious. They must have some confidence in the T Foil rudders.  

Screen Shot 2017-08-23 at 12.38.21 PM.png

 

The wheel seems a long way forward... and is plywood strong enough for a round the world boat? and why are there 3 little dudes standing on the bow?

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Less than two months to go.

Any new theories about team 8? 
Or maybe some more conspiracies about slow and fast boats? After all the Boatyard did manage to take the speed out of last editions winner. :D

As far as imoca conversion goes. Right now that should be a new keel, mast, rudders & foils for rule compliance please. Rework the aft deck for single handed use. Easy and cheap, eh.
(I do think that fitting into the imoca box instead of doing a very similar hull but ~3feet longer is a sound decision. VOR looses nothing with this new OD boat and opens a few additional options..)

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2 minutes ago, Chasm said:

Less than two months to go.

Any new theories about team 8? 
Or maybe some more conspiracies about slow and fast boats? After all the Boatyard did manage to take the speed out of last editions winner. :D

As far as imoca conversion goes. Right now that should be a new keel, mast, rudders & foils for rule compliance please. Rework the aft deck for single handed use. Easy and cheap, eh.
(I do think that fitting into the imoca box instead of doing a very similar hull but ~3feet longer is a sound decision. VOR looses nothing with this new OD boat and opens a few additional options..)

There is no Team 8. Scratch that.

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19 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

There is no Team 8. Scratch that.

Did you get news?

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9 hours ago, southerncross said:

Us people?  Feeling salty are we?   

I'm looking forward to a new, possibly, full foiling Verdier boat and how the technology will play out in the next generation VG fleet.  Adds a new dimension to the OD game that may (I say may) spread the fleet out a bit.

What do you mean about them being dogs with problems?  Slow?  Build quality?  Persico and Verdier have a pretty good track record recently wouldn't you say?

Recent Persico and Verdier boats have far from perfect histories concerning basic strength and nobody publishes their mistakes and they all keep the "repair work" as secret as possible. I only ever find out what really broke and how it was repaired by talking to someone who was sailing on the boat at the time, and breakages which have not been "widely" reported and explained have happened. The sailors who have sailed both 70s and 65s have told me the 65 is slow and heels too much. For the professionals the VOR is a living so they won't criticize it much on record. They like to have a paying job after all even if it is b....y uncomfortable!
If a one-off gets known to have problems you can always make alterations, even radical ones. If a high profile one-design fleet of 8 plus boats are all dogs that is an admission of failure which you are not going to hear.
The 65 is however relatively simple in concept and was designed only do do one job, and IMHO it doesn't do it well. Simple commonsense tells one that attempting to design a very complicated foiling single hander is hard enough to get right even when it is designed for one specific purpose and there are plenty of other ones around to learn from (e.g. VG boats). If you have sailed even a non-foiling Imoca and also been on board a VOR 65 it is a huge stretch of the imagination to think the same basic boat type could be good for both single handed and fully crewed race types in differing prevailing wind conditions. A one-design multi-purpose version can only be a sow's ear.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, staysail said:

Recent Persico and Verdier boats have far from perfect histories concerning basic strength and nobody publishes their mistakes and they all keep the "repair work" as secret as possible. I only ever find out what really broke and how it was repaired by talking to someone who was sailing on the boat at the time, and breakages which have not been "widely" reported and explained have happened. The sailors who have sailed both 70s and 65s have told me the 65 is slow and heels too much. For the professionals the VOR is a living so they won't criticize it much on record. They like to have a paying job after all even if it is b....y uncomfortable!
If a one-off gets known to have problems you can always make alterations, even radical ones. If a high profile one-design fleet of 8 plus boats are all dogs that is an admission of failure which you are not going to hear.
The 65 is however relatively simple in concept and was designed only do do one job, and IMHO it doesn't do it well. Simple commonsense tells one that attempting to design a very complicated foiling single hander is hard enough to get right even when it is designed for one specific purpose and there are plenty of other ones around to learn from (e.g. VG boats). If you have sailed even a non-foiling Imoca and also been on board a VOR 65 it is a huge stretch of the imagination to think the same basic boat type could be good for both single handed and fully crewed race types in differing prevailing wind conditions. A one-design multi-purpose version can only be a sow's ear.

No hope at all?

I've given up the OD argument.  I'm hoping the foils will mix it up enough to make it interesting.

On VPLP/Persico/Verdier build, short of catastrophic failure, I believe there is an acceptable margin of error when designing high concept/cutting edge boats to sail non stop around the world through the harshest conditions.  As far as their designs go, their track record speaks for itself.  

"For the IMOCAs, I think the Great Foil Debate has been settled! With four foilers taking the first four places [NB: and five VPLP-Verdier designs in the first five places], the doubters have to admit they were wrong. And we shall continue to develop foil technology which, lest we forget, is only two years’ old on the IMOCAs."

http://us13.campaign-archive2.com/?u=3f21a64983f6fe6e7d2e5d44f&id=364f06f374&e=[UNIQID]

Not to mention, HB broke a foil and still finished coming in second.

So, I am a little more optimistic in Verdier's claims that the boat will be able to do what they say it will do.  The interesting part will be to see how it's done.

Correction:  I don't think Verdier collaborated at all with VPLP on the multis.  

Edited by southerncross

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Older Verdier Iterview but relevant:

How important is it to get the input of Volvo Ocean Race sailors in the design process?

It’s super important, and we’re introducing some Volvo Ocean Race veterans into the design team really early on for that reason. You get a unique perspective from the sailors, as they explain to you all of their tricks, how they survive on board, and how they look to exploit the boat to the max.

That’s important – after all, if you design a single-handed boat, for example, the way that it’s sailed is completely different to a fully-crewed boat. You have to make a judgement of the machine you design based on the capacity of the sailor to exploit it.

How do you balance the battle between speed and safety? And how much do you take a sailor’s daily life on board into the design process?

It’s important, for sure, and it will probably affect the width of the boat a little bit. We’ll make changes for ergonomic reasons to ensure that the sailors are – well, not comfortable – but at least surviving on board. For instance, the cockpit might be a little bit more protected than in previous generations. That little bit more shelter allows the sailors to maximise the potential of the boat.

We will make extra effort to keep the crews safe, as Volvo Ocean Race sailors have a reputation for pushing really, really hard. They’re relentless. In single-handed sailing, there’s a tendency for the sailors to be a bit more careful about their boats, but in a Volvo Ocean Race team, I think they push it harder than ever, which makes it more prone to breakages. We may have to consider downgrading the performance factor slightly in order to retain a certain level of security, which is a key aspect to bear in mind especially when you’re racing in the Southern Ocean.

I’ve got to check safety a bit more due to that. I’ll try to turn that into benefit, probably by making the boat stiffer, and I’ll try to transform the safety aspects into some interesting features. It’s about trying to see a ‘problem’ from another point of view.

The next generation of boat is part of a series of major announcements on 18 May which will take the Volvo Ocean Race into the next, exciting phase of its history. Do you feel a pressure or responsibility on your shoulders?

I feel pressure in that there is always huge risk in designing new boats. It’s a big challenge to design a machine that is extraordinary to sail but safe at the same time. It’s always a fine line, and at the end of the day, we always have pressure when we send someone to sea, racing around the world.

But it’s a feeling that I’m used to. In the last Vendée Globe, I had 12 boats and you want to see everyone come back, so yes, in that way, there is pressure, and you feel it.

http://www.guillaumeverdier.com/en/meet-the-man-behind-the-next-generation-boat/

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14 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

Did you get news?

Too late mate, buddy :)

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Out of the piece Southerncross posted
 

Quote

We may have to consider downgrading the performance factor slightly in order to retain a certain level of security, which is a key aspect to bear in mind especially when you’re racing in the Southern Ocean.

I find it telling that they do consider throttling back performance as a factor in safety.  There is all this talk about dog this and pig that, and it would seem some of that was purposefully built in to ensure long term viability.  7 boats left, 7 boats finished so it seemed to work out.  No one wins with a broken boat or broken crew.

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2 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Too late mate, buddy :)

Cryptic, but you think that whoever was too late to the game?  That no team could pull it together, qualify(ish) and hit the start line in Oct?  Couple here would differ ^_^ At this point I'm "if it's there yeah, if not oh well' for the 7 starting will be exciting enough.

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2 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

Out of the piece Southerncross posted
 

I find it telling that they do consider throttling back performance as a factor in safety.  There is all this talk about dog this and pig that, and it would seem some of that was purposefully built in to ensure long term viability.  7 boats left, 7 boats finished so it seemed to work out.  No one wins with a broken boat or broken crew.

Throttle back for the VO then throttle up for VG to be competitive?  Tricky.  And interesting to see if they can pull it off.

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22 hours ago, southerncross said:

  I'm looking forward to a new, possibly, full foiling Verdier boat and how the technology will play out in the next generation VG fleet.  Adds a new dimension to the OD game that may (I say may) spread the fleet out a bit.

 

Me too, SouthernX. For the first go-around at least.

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On 8/23/2017 at 9:28 PM, southerncross said:

Exclusive first look at the next Volvo Ocean Race boat design

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9893_Exclusive-first-look-at-the-next-Volvo-Ocean-Race-boat-design.html

“We’ve created the Volvo Ocean Race Design Team as a collaboration, getting the best input from everywhere,” said Bice. “It’s going to be a very cool boat; imagine coming into the finish, in a harbour in 20 knots of breeze and you are going to see this thing fully airborne, foiling, at 35 to 40 knots.” 

Fully airborne.  Pretty ambitious. They must have some confidence in the T Foil rudders.  

Screen Shot 2017-08-23 at 12.38.21 PM.png

Isnt this an interesting bow? Or am I looking at two bows? Or is the bow not part of the mockup?

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53 minutes ago, ghosty2 said:

Isnt this an interesting bow? Or am I looking at two bows? Or is the bow not part of the mockup?

The plywood mock-up is usually to help the yard and designer get input from other trades and sailors. Finalise deck mold and where fittings should go and make sure the turning angles are workable. 

Bow/hull mold can get more playtime with designer. 

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Unfortunately >90% of people struggle reading plans = mock ups. Also helpful for fine tuning small savings that can compound into something significant with multiple OD builds.

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It seems that the deck in the bow section is  somehow concave... or it is a optical illusion...

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44 minutes ago, ITA602 said:

It seems that the deck in the bow section is  somehow concave... or it is a optical illusion...

Looks concave.  Macif and others were like this.

At first I thought the bow was a scow variation.  

I'm sure the section is unfinished in that photo (too short) but as it stands it reminds me of one of those offshore catamaran power boats.

speedboat.jpg

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Yes unfinished business. Wouldn't be allowed by the imoca 60 rules without a replacement bow. BTW any news wrt the imoca class and rules for the next VG? Will they remain unchanged

 

Yes those cats were cool. Although not sure if the VOR's should look like a Q23

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16 minutes ago, jonas a said:

Yes unfinished business. Wouldn't be allowed by the imoca 60 rules without a replacement bow. BTW any news wrt the imoca class and rules for the next VG? Will they remain unchanged

There is this...

The choice of foils 
Unveiled for the first time on the IMOCA60 in 2015, the foils have earned lively debates. These appendices nevertheless proved to be very reliable and efficient, but also a very strong element of communication during the competitions. With four IMOCA60s equipped with foils in the first four places of the Vendée Globe, this technological option has proved its worth, and it is very logical that the General Assembly reinforced its choice by allowing more options for adjusting these appendices in order to To optimize its use. 
 

The stability of the rules guided the technical committee's proposals for developments, and the new rules, adopted by a very large majority, are now in place until 2021. 
 

Among the decisions approved by the Assembly, skippers will now sail with one sail less and some adjustments have been made in favor of safety thanks to feedback from the last Vendée Globe and Barcelona World Race.

https://www.imoca.org/en/downloads/. July 2017 Rules

(h) Effective from 1 January 2018, a foil shall be retractable using one degree of freedom and: (i) A second degree of freedom may be used if and only if a set of two bearings is used to guide this appendage. (ii) One of the two bearings shall be a non-adjustable bearing positioned close to the hull. (iii) The other bearing may have a degree of freedom. If it exists, this degree of freedom shall be a translation and shall limit the rotation of the foil to an angle of 5 degrees. (iv) This angle is measured from the non-adjustable bearing positioned close to the hull.

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More Foil/DSS Stuff

Appendix I: Interpretations INTERPRETATION: 2-2009/2014 Question Are the 2 DSS systems proposed below compliant with the IMOCA Class Rules?

The request for interpretation leads the CRC to raise 5 questions concerning the systems suggested:

1. According to article A.2.2 Hull appendage, are the proposed systems considered to be appendages?

2. According to article C.7.1, is the “single sliding foil” system considered to be a “symmetrical and central”?

3. According to article C.7.1, how many axes of rotation are there on each appendage?

4. According to article C.7.2, how many appendages are there on each system?

5. According to article A.2.2 Monohull, do the proposed systems create additional “flotation planes”? Answers:

1. Article A.2.2 DEFINITIONS Hull appendage (IMOCA) is a repetition of article E.1.1 (ERS) defining an appendage. The systems suggested do not contravene these rules and are thus appendages.

2. The system “single sliding foil” cannot thus be described as “symmetrical and central”.

3. For each appendage in the two systems presented there is one axis of rotation.

4. The “single sliding foil” system presenting two attachment points on the hull must be counted as two appendages, even if physically it is the same element.

5. With the term “flotation plane” not being specifically defined in the Class Rules (IMOCA), it is up to the CRC to interpret whether an appendage creates or does not create an additional flotation plane. The CRC considers that the rudders, the canting keel, as well as the appendages of the existing fleet, before the application of the Class Rules 2009, do not, by their nature, create additional flotation planes. Concerning future appendage systems showing different or innovative design characteristics, the naval architect is requested to demonstrate to the Chief Measurer that none of these appendages creates a second flotation plane under the conditions set down in Article A.2.2 Monohull. In case of doubt the Chief Measurer will submit a report to the CRC which will decide. END OF THE INTERPRETATION: 2-2009/2014

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" Unveiled for the first time on the IMOCA60 in 2015, the foils have earned lively debates. These appendices nevertheless proved to be very reliable and efficient, but also a very strong element of communication during the competitions. With four IMOCA60s equipped with foils in the first four places of the Vendée Globe, this technological option has proved its worth, and it is very logical that the General Assembly reinforced its choice by allowing more options for adjusting these appendices in order to To optimize its use. "

 

What self-serviing bolloicks - reliable they were not, and short memories indeed when you skip over how PRB was doing before that had her problems - would very likely have won the race.

 

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3 minutes ago, GBH said:

" Unveiled for the first time on the IMOCA60 in 2015, the foils have earned lively debates. These appendices nevertheless proved to be very reliable and efficient, but also a very strong element of communication during the competitions. With four IMOCA60s equipped with foils in the first four places of the Vendée Globe, this technological option has proved its worth, and it is very logical that the General Assembly reinforced its choice by allowing more options for adjusting these appendices in order to To optimize its use. "

 

What self-serviing bolloicks - reliable they were not, and short memories indeed when you skip over how PRB was doing before that had her problems - would very likely have won the race.

 

Maybe they were speaking in "relative" reliability terms.

PRB did look quick and competitive but I remember Vincent Riou saying he was physically spent after just one week trying to keep pace with the foilers.

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1 hour ago, GBH said:

 

What self-serviing bolloicks - reliable they were not, and short memories indeed when you skip over how PRB was doing before that had her problems - would very likely have won the race.

 

Memories ???? Maybe PRB was blitzing it at the beginning but once through the doldrums Vincent started going out the back door well before things went pear shaped for him.

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Riou had to push really hard and have perfect weather to keep pace - even in conditions more favourable to daggerboards. It is a shame he had to abandon, but had he not - I don't think he could have put in enough distance to buffer his lead once the foiling boats got the right conditions and basically set new extended daily records one after another. I forgot the precise number, but it wasn't just HB - but 2 other boats surpassed the prior 24-48hr distances by other VG boats by a significant margin. 

 

A lot of people like to look at top speed as indicative of foiling advantage. The crazy thing with the foiling boats is once there's enough apparent to lift - you can maintain speed with more conservative sail area. Once HB lost a foil, AT could still minimize his losses by driving hard - but to do so was really tough on the boat and himself . 

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Bouwe Bekking supports Volvo Ocean Legends Race 2018
 
Dutch sailing legend, Bouwe Bekking is all set to have an eighth tilt at taking home the Volvo Ocean Race Trophy when the race takes off around the world in October this year. But, when it arrives in Gothenburg in June 2018, Bekking will also have another roll to play, as he’s also Ambassador to the Legends Race 2018.
 

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Volvo Ocean Race - Womens Olympic Medalist misses out on Volvo spot

by Richard Gladwell, Sail-World.com NZ on 25 Aug

Aleh had been trialling for one of the crew positions on Team Brunel.

Fellow Gold and Silver medalist and America's Cup champion, Peter Burling has been confirmed on the crew of Dutch-flagged Team Brunel, but will not be sailing on every leg, due to other commitments. 

Writing on her blog, she disclosed that she had received a letter from the Team saying that she had missed out on a sport for the race which begins in late October from Alicante, Spain.

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Volvo-Ocean-Race---Womens-Olympic-Medalist-misses-out-on-Volvo-spot/156674

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'You feel it in your heart when the Volvo Ocean Race is calling'

It's been 27 years since Italy last had a female sailor in the Volvo Ocean Race – but Turn the Tide on Plastic's newest recruit Francesca Clapcich is about to change all that.

With plenty of Olympic experience and a successful trial period under her belt, the 29-year-old is the third sailor announced by skipper Dee Caffari for the 2017-18 edition.

Hi Francesca! You've got a lot of experience in the Olympic circuit, but the Volvo Ocean Race is all new to you – describe your first experiences on a Volvo Ocean 65...

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9898_-You-feel-it-in-your-heart-when-the-Volvo-Ocean-Race-is-calling-.html

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9 hours ago, southerncross said:

Volvo Ocean Race - Womens Olympic Medalist misses out on Volvo spot

by Richard Gladwell, Sail-World.com NZ on 25 Aug

Aleh had been trialling for one of the crew positions on Team Brunel.

Fellow Gold and Silver medalist and America's Cup champion, Peter Burling has been confirmed on the crew of Dutch-flagged Team Brunel, but will not be sailing on every leg, due to other commitments. 

Writing on her blog, she disclosed that she had received a letter from the Team saying that she had missed out on a sport for the race which begins in late October from Alicante, Spain.

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Volvo-Ocean-Race---Womens-Olympic-Medalist-misses-out-on-Volvo-spot/156674

Quote

However, on the flip side, I am also strangely happy, I am still not entirely convinced that trying to do the race was the right idea for me, I often found myself more frustrated with it all than loving it, and my body definitely tried to rebel along the way (seasickness and all). 

So perhaps a good decision.  The Burling comment is interesting.  I'm wondering what he brings to the able that gets him a slot, but allowed to not be part of the full crew.  Perhaps next AC stuff?  Glad the teams are taking time announcing, but man, the wait is always tough.

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2 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

So perhaps a good decision.  The Burling comment is interesting.  I'm wondering what he brings to the able that gets him a slot, but allowed to not be part of the full crew.  Perhaps next AC stuff?  Glad the teams are taking time announcing, but man, the wait is always tough.

Several obvious reasons why PB was chosen besides being a gifted helmsman and sailor. 

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http://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/josse-on-sent-la-puissance-24-08-2017-11639090.php

Fully foiling! 

With the Verdier/VOR partnership and a lot of talk towards multis in the not too distant future, could this be the result (shorter version)? 


"Do not get overtaken by the machine," you say. You feel there are horses under the hood? 

We will grow in power slowly, gain confidence and ultimately fly as often as possible.We'll have to do it three-four times to figure out how it works. And that's where we'll have to find the right settings. That said, the program of the boat is much wider than that, one must also fly in 30-35 knots and with four meters of swell. But when you fly by 16 knots (winds) and wind on a flat sea, it's just great. We'll have to go there quietly. Oh yes, we feel that there is power when all the artifices of the flight are in place. We can already make it fly. 

 

On board, guests are not allowed to take pictures or make videos. There are secrets that you do not want to disclose to the competition?

There are not many boats like ours. In the monocoque Imoca, each team also has its little secrets and it is even more the case on these trimarans. Guillaume Verdier is an architect who has the wind in its sails with innovative ideas. We have the earliest on these ideas. It should not be forgotten that there are other trimarans going out (note: Banque Populaire d'Armel Le Cléac'h and Sodebo of Thomas Coville) and we have technological innovations on our boat, so we want to Keep them warm as long as possible. Now, the true result, we will see it on the water. It is the one who wins the races that is right. 

 

Is a trimaran like Gitana 17 more physical than other boats, like a 60 foot Imoca for example?

Yes, you only have to look at François Gabart and Thomas Coville, they are athletes. To raise a foil, it is 15 minutes of crank, a sail, it is 150 kg to move, the mainsail weighs 250 kg. Here the power of the boat is 150 tons / meter, against 30 tons / meter in Imoca monohull. That, one feels it in the intercepts. On a boat like this, the management of the physical counts a lot. It is certain that we will not chain two changes of sail in less than two hours. There are choices and compromises to be made in maneuvers. They are still big boats and we have to adapt to this size.

© Le Télégrammehttp://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/josse-on-sent-la-puissance-24-08-2017-11639090.php#XQy8THDQ0EoTHoih.99

Gitana Tri Foiler.jpg

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Hello again,

Well, since we still seem to be discussing French designers and sailors at the moment, while waiting for more VOR news, it is interesting, to me at least, to note that while pursuing the post by southerncross about Gitana 17, I came across the fact that in the Fastnet, 7 of 10 classes were won by French crews, 8 if you count Dongfeng, skippered by Charles Caudrelier, and the overall IRC winner was Frenchman Didier Gaudoux in a JND 39! Sometimes, like it or not, one just has to love handicap sailboat racing. And especially an overall win by a Corinthian, family and friends, crew!!!!  Behold them approaching the finish.

 

2017-rfr-lann-ael-2-finish-approach-cb.jpg

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Retired Sailor,

I am so pumped up for this years VOR. Can't wait for the Race to start :)

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From the front page, there is only one female OBR. But from what I understand the OBR's will be assigned to a team and even moved around in different legs, so the teams can't choose which OBR they get.

My first thought: pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease assign the female OBR to Scallywag.

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48 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

My first thought: pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease assign the female OBR to Scallywag.

Why? Just to generate friction (eventually)?
Scallywag has made a choice they have the right to do. Fair, equal or whatever, they have the right to sail without women.

Time will tell if it is a right choice or not, for sure they are not interested in the ROI.

I had a woman at the helm of the boat I raced with for years on, so don't worry, I do not discriminate. :-)

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, ITA602 said:

Why? Just to generate friction (eventually)?
Scallywag has made a choice they have the right to do. Fair, equal or whatever, they have the right to sail without women.

Time will tell if it is a right choice or not, for sure they are not interested in the ROI.

I had a woman at the helm of the boat I raced with for years on, so don't worry, I do not discriminate. :-)

 

 

 

They have the right to sail without female CREW. OBR's are assigned to them and are not part of the crew.....besides, they're used to having a female OBR (Wittys girlfriend, I believe) on the bigger boat so maybe it won't create any friction. I just thought it was funny :)

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If the casting has been fair and the men won, then that's how it is. I don't think imposing quotas will help women getting up to level... No one would bitch about it if it was the other way around.

 

Disclaimer,: I have no idea how the selection process was made, I'm just assuming it was a fair competition between candidates.

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I'd be intrigued to know what the raw numbers are - i.e of the 10,000 (ish) that applied, how many were women. 1 in 10 might well be representative of those who applied, but then as suggested perhaps an active decision to make it 2 in 10 to continue the vibe of this edition and encourage female involvement might have been a positive.

By increased visibility at the top end now, you'll encourage other girls and women at the grass routes levels to give new things a try in the future - its a slow burn process. Its hard to be what you can't see.

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9 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

If the casting has been fair and the men won, then that's how it is. I don't think imposing quotas will help women getting up to level... No one would bitch about it if it was the other way around.

 

Disclaimer,: I have no idea how the selection process was made, I'm just assuming it was a fair competition between candidates.

You perhaps never heard of the glass ceiling?  Competence has nothing to do with who can climb the ladder when control of that ladder is held by one sex.  As has been shown, when there is a female captain/skipper, females are included as part of a natural skill selection.  If the VOR needs to impose a crew rule to get more women included, it would seem Mark sees the long term benefit of this, because down the road, there may be more females skippers, more female shore managers and he may not have broken the glass ceiling, but at least poked some good holes in it.

Having a female OBR on Scallywag would be great fun.  Not for attempting friction, but to capture the real emotions and frustrations as that boat would continue to struggle in last place. I feel a male would, without thinking, gloss over such moments.

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Women dressed as nuns attempt Pennsylvania bank robbery

The FBI is searching for two women who tried to rob a bank in the US state of Pennsylvania dressed as nuns.

One of the women brandished a gun as she demanded money during the incident at a bank in the town of Tannersville on Monday.

Both were wearing black nun's habits and veils and one was wearing sunglasses.

They are believed to have fled when one of the bank tellers operated an alarm.

_97599569_mediaitem97599568.jpg

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22 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

From the front page, there is only one female OBR. But from what I understand the OBR's will be assigned to a team and even moved around in different legs, so the teams can't choose which OBR they get.

My first thought: pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease assign the female OBR to Scallywag.

Love it - they wouldn't though.

SS

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Turn the Tide on Plastic sign up four more young stars

Turn the Tide on Plastic have added another four young sailors to their crusading campaign in the Volvo Ocean Race – with America’s Cup sailor Bleddyn Mon of Wales, fellow Briton Henry Bomby and Portuguese pair Bernardo Freitas and Frederico Pinheiro de Melo all joining Dee Caffari’s team.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9900_Turn-the-Tide-on-Plastic-sign-up-four-more-young-stars.html

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Figaro 3/Volvo.

So this could be quite a development! The current thinking is for a 150nm event, with male/female crew, live, on board coverage, trackers, and some specific gates to follow. I think that it would engage a lot more people, because of what they would encounter in terms of weather conditions, or tide, and then the arrival all at the same time after two days of races would be incredibly interesting. Naturally, this would really create a super interest in, behind, and around the double-handed sailing for 150, 200, or 300nm.”

“We have also talked several times with Mark Turner (VOR), because Volvo is going for a kind of a IMOCA, and the Figaro 3 is a mini IMOCA. The Volvo is One Design, and so are we. Yet it is Dongfeng that is the best surprise with sort of a cheap budget, but even more so because it was heavily based on Figaro skippers. They have the experience of one design, and also doing long distance races where they fight for everything. They have to keep the level super high, which I think why the Figaro 3 could be an ideal partner to grow a sort of an academy for the VOR, and find the next generation of skippers.”

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Pulling-Gs-with-Beneteau-–-Pt-II/156849

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8 hours ago, southerncross said:

In favor for the VOR or not, this is pretty cool.  http://www.gitana-team.com/a-1259/premiers-vols

I can't argue, that is one cool boat.  I'm not getting the foil thing as it relates to ocean sailing.  I'd be curious on a study that shows how much foiling, totally in the air, is done when/if they did a long leg though the SO or when transitioning a TZ.  I get speed, just can't get that excited when used in a RTW race (but that's me).

Still a very cool boat.  Almost looks more like space ship more than a sail boat.

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Bucc,

You have missed the announcement of 4 crew members on Turn the Tide !!

Catch up please.

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On 30/08/2017 at 11:49 AM, NORBowGirl said:

From the front page, there is only one female OBR. But from what I understand the OBR's will be assigned to a team and even moved around in different legs, so the teams can't choose which OBR they get.

My first thought: pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease assign the female OBR to Scallywag.

That's just plain evil for the OBR:o

But would be very funny to hear Witts unedited interview. :lol:

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On 8/30/2017 at 7:19 AM, NORBowGirl said:

They have the right to sail without female CREW. OBR's are assigned to them and are not part of the crew.....besides, they're used to having a female OBR (Wittys girlfriend, I believe) on the bigger boat so maybe it won't create any friction. I just thought it was funny :)

I would be amused also - tho the female OBR will need to be onboard a potentially toxic environment for weeks. I would be concerned for mental health.

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First thought: Someone does not like Jen.

Is there really a need to add tension to Scallywag? Sounds to me like they'll do just fine in that department.
Sending an OBR that does not filter too much should be plenty. As long as the shoreside media team does not enforce another filter layer that is.

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Jen's tough as an old gumboot.  She could handle it!

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Jen's tough as an old gumboot.  She could handle it!

details please ;-)

With 5 weeks to go to the Prologue (Lisbon-Alicante), the 8th team must be wishful thinking. A pity. Any rumours/thoughts on how to use this boat during the race, or just leave it ready for the case someone does a Vestas?!?

 

 

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I'm doing a VOR podcast when i get home next week that will be long and informative.  I'll be sure to include this question for one or more of the guests.  I'll be talking to Bouwe and Bicey at a minimum, happy to get some suggestions for anyone else.  Maybe Henry Bomby, just named to Dee's boat.

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Dock talk #1

With just 50 days to go until the start, find out what's going on in the Volvo Ocean Race world this week

Morale is high in the Dutch camp for a couple of reasons – number one, they just got some new sails, which look awesome. Number two, skipper Bouwe Bekking and Argentinian crewmember Juanpa Marcos grabbed a win in the J-Class World Championships in Newport last week onboard Dutch boat Lionheart.

After their Leg Zero success, MAPFRE’s sailors took some breathing space – and a positive month continued in style for skipper Xabi who was declared Sailor of the Year and winner of the Tarras Gauda National Sailing prize. He’ll pick up his trophy at an event at the Monte Real Yacht Club – and he’ll be hoping to collect a second in The Hague next summer.

Dee Caffari is assembling a youth-orientated and mixed squad for the 2017-18 edition and has announced six new crewmembers in the last week: Italian Olympian Francesca Clapcich, Aussie Lucas Chapman, two Brits in Henry Bomby and Bleddyn Mon and a pair of Portuguese in Bernardo Freitas and Frederico Pinheiro de Melo. 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9903_Dock-talk-1.html

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'm doing a VOR podcast when i get home next week that will be long and informative.  I'll be sure to include this question for one or more of the guests.  I'll be talking to Bouwe and Bicey at a minimum, happy to get some suggestions for anyone else.  Maybe Henry Bomby, just named to Dee's boat.

Pick Bicey for some info on the new generation boats.  Also, thoughts on Gitana 17.

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'm doing a VOR podcast when i get home next week that will be long and informative.  I'll be sure to include this question for one or more of the guests.  I'll be talking to Bouwe and Bicey at a minimum, happy to get some suggestions for anyone else.  Maybe Henry Bomby, just named to Dee's boat.

These may not be the right people to address this, but if you can get access to MT or someone on the media side, I'm curious whether we're going to be able to see the raw(-ish*) video uploads off all the boats this time. DF was good about doing that last time, so I'm hopeful, but institutions have memories, and I'm still in a twist over the way the central Volvo media operation shut down access to their media FTP server shortly after the start last time for the outlet that was just reposting the videos.

Having the OBRs paid for/trained/assigned by the race itself feels like a bit of a two-edged sword. On the one hand, we're less likely to have a situation like we did last time when SCA's feed mostly disappeared during the interval when they stopped racing hard in the SO after blowing out their FR0, which I've always suspected was at last partly a sponsor decision. On the other hand, the video packages edited together by the home office in Alicante, with the chopped-up clips from the OBR feeds, were my least-favorite way to try to follow the race last time. (Not talking here about the live coverage of in-ports, departures, and arrivals; that stuff rocked.) If centralized OBR control means that bad music videos are *all* we're going to get mid-leg, I'm gonna blow a gasket.

* I realize the video uploads from the OBRs are not really "raw" video; they're edited onboard by the OBR. I'm not expecting continuous live video. Just whatever the closest is that I can get to seeing what's actually happening on the boat, as told by the reporter ON THE BOAT, rather than whatever dumb coordinated storyline the bosses in Alicante have decided to put together for their audience of golfers and CEOs that day.

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I think I can answer that in part.

Aside from the OBRs each team has a crew communicator. Essentially a 'transmit only' smartphone,  that crew will use to show raw photos and videos. 

No idea how well it will work, but it certainly shows a shift in attitude. 

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Maybe add Brian Carlin to the pre race podcast mix. As obr team lead he should be able to tell (and sell) the media concept.

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Local hero Peter Burling faces toughest test

Despite all the success in his extraordinary career so far Burling is not one to sit back and reflect on how well he has done. Far from it. There is still an unmistakable hunger within him to take on new challenges, to push himself out of his comfort zone and see what develops.

Sailing around the world in the Volvo Ocean Race is the ultimate test of a sailor's courage, mental strength and ability to perform in some of the harshest conditions on the planet.

It is no place for the faint-hearted but Burling is more than up for it as part of the crew on board Team Brunei.

"My next venture is some offshore racing which is something quite different. In my career so far I have done a lot of in-shore stuff, a bit like sailing in the [Tauranga] harbour and around the world in small keel boats.

"I am going to learn a bit more about the other side of the sport. The Volvo Ocean Race is going to be some pretty interesting times going down to the Southern Ocean. It gets pretty cold down there with the water down to five or six degrees.

"It is definitely a race of attrition. Some of the longer legs go 30 to 40 days and it is a unique thing with a group of people trying to race a boat as fast as you can for that long a period. We have a watch system of four hours on, fours off, four hours on. By the end of it you are pretty sleep-deprived and pretty broken.

"The communication between people is crucial to ensure you are open and honest, who is too tired, who can keep pushing."

There is no doubt Burling's will be the first hand up when volunteers are called for to do extra shifts.

He is always learning, always challenging himself and those he sails with to become even better than they have been before.

It is just what he does.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11913966

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On 8/31/2017 at 7:13 PM, DtM said:

Bucc,

You have missed the announcement of 4 crew members on Turn the Tide !!

Catch up please.

Been busy (new job) and I did see that.  The teams are coming together.   

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3 hours ago, Potter said:

I think I can answer that in part.

Aside from the OBRs each team has a crew communicator. Essentially a 'transmit only' smartphone,  that crew will use to show raw photos and videos. 

No idea how well it will work, but it certainly shows a shift in attitude. 

That sounds cool. I wondered what that meant when I saw it mentioned twitter. Thanks.

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Local hero Peter Burling faces toughest test

Despite all the success in his extraordinary career so far Burling is not one to sit back and reflect on how well he has done. Far from it. There is still an unmistakable hunger within him to take on new challenges, to push himself out of his comfort zone and see what develops.

Sailing around the world in the Volvo Ocean Race is the ultimate test of a sailor's courage, mental strength and ability to perform in some of the harshest conditions on the planet.

It is no place for the faint-hearted but Burling is more than up for it as part of the crew on board Team Brunei.

"My next venture is some offshore racing which is something quite different. In my career so far I have done a lot of in-shore stuff, a bit like sailing in the [Tauranga] harbour and around the world in small keel boats.

"I am going to learn a bit more about the other side of the sport. The Volvo Ocean Race is going to be some pretty interesting times going down to the Southern Ocean. It gets pretty cold down there with the water down to five or six degrees.

"It is definitely a race of attrition. Some of the longer legs go 30 to 40 days and it is a unique thing with a group of people trying to race a boat as fast as you can for that long a period. We have a watch system of four hours on, fours off, four hours on. By the end of it you are pretty sleep-deprived and pretty broken.

"The communication between people is crucial to ensure you are open and honest, who is too tired, who can keep pushing."

There is no doubt Burling's will be the first hand up when volunteers are called for to do extra shifts.

He is always learning, always challenging himself and those he sails with to become even better than they have been before.

It is just what he does.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11913966

I look forward to his interview when he steps off Capetown to Melbourne or NZ to Brazil.  He won't quite have the RTW medal for his "other engagements", but i will be curious if his star power and talent will help Brunel, or hinder.  It's been seen before that all the OD < 20 sailing at the top may not translate to big boat blue water sailing.  Then I am no sycophant of a star, but challenge them to still meet the expectations.

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Interest in this event now at an all time low, No posts since Saturday.

Saw this on the Times web site.

Anyone know what's behind this? Also is anyone out there prepared to say what the skippers and crews are paid (or were paid in past editions?).

Dee Pay.jpg

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9 minutes ago, staysail said:

Interest in this event now at an all time low, No posts since Saturday.

Saw this on the Times web site.

Anyone know what's behind this? Also is anyone out there prepared to say what the skippers and crews are paid (or were paid in past editions?).

Dee Pay.jpg

Any link to the original?

 

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9 minutes ago, staysail said:

Interest in this event now at an all time low, No posts since Saturday.

Saw this on the Times web site.

Anyone know what's behind this? Also is anyone out there prepared to say what the skippers and crews are paid (or were paid in past editions?).

Dee Pay.jpg

Hm. Difficult one. Obviously a less experienced crew could get less paid than a very experienced one....? Regardless of sex. Then again, how should experience be measured - only VOR experience? I hope not.

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And another quote from Dee. How's that for a straight answer to a simple question!!!

Dee UN.jpg

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Dee already responded to this. VOR made the contact and offered to Dee the skipper position. This team is VOR's investment into new and young folks. After OmanSail, Dee is a great and experienced coach. 

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22 minutes ago, jeronimo2 said:

Dee already responded to this. VOR made the contact and offered to Dee the skipper position. This team is VOR's investment into new and young folks. After OmanSail, Dee is a great and experienced coach. 

OK, since you know all about it, why couldn't she just answer the question in the interview with what you say here and confirm she didn't initiate the project? Has VOR told her to keep quiet about it being a VOR entry (investment)?

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Any link to the original?

 

It was in a Facebook post of the Magenta Project copied from facebook as below. It linked to the Times online newspaper, but if you arn't a subscriber you cant get the whole article, and I am not a subscriber. Hence my post!

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.co.uk%2Farticle%2Fyacht-teams-try-to-scupper-equal-pay-kz2thcpfc&h=ATODxSJTQzcvBf0Pirv8ZFHnV6bGgwmpESGNPSqa67hbw_DQ7fevGKMC6ZGuPHFFnU6btQcjBPHlNg4yt8zhQj9RC-rSIWUfr16_FhLTH22EJtTm-cen_z27QTJuqAb2biagTF29oZTqmDy-R3gZKqO42tD_2My0x6NPDyAsLfTBV9Wdedvo8BalHHhn-2AjOvKsiHdDkmd06uFffTvoIkzgOrD9A2ltU1ZfWwuQJ-qnS83nhWsgMOlsbcLAdSLcHt8qd0CHlYQTnZnlqNuEo-TIgRaZecy2CA

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You don't have to subscribe, just to register. There is only a paywall if you go over a certain number of articles per month.

As for Dee answering the question directly.  Quite often the answer you give for an interview is longer than the one that appears in print. How do you know that she did not answer directly and then expand on the answer. Maybe she did, or maybe not. The point is that she has answered it before. 

As an example the interview with The Times was over an hour in length, but obviously that cannot all be printed. The journalist will write the story they are interested in, and then the editor will cut it to fit the space/agenda.

The Tempus article is to fit the messaging/agenda of the Muripuri foundation, and the OFF. That answer may have just been show-horned in to tick a target; it does not mean that Dee is avoiding a question.

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3 hours ago, staysail said:

Interest in this event now at an all time low, No posts since Saturday.

 

Event is still sweet..however Bucc & the Inane Shit Co have murdered this thread.

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1 hour ago, staysail said:

OK, since you know all about it, why couldn't she just answer the question in the interview with what you say here and confirm she didn't initiate the project? Has VOR told her to keep quiet about it being a VOR entry (investment)?

a pity this thread has become pretty difficult to read and follow... this interview was posted a while ago. In minute 10, Dee talks about the sponsorship process led by VOR and how she was chosen as skipper. 

http://www.wispsports.com/dee-caffari-prepares-for-volvo-ocean-race

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45 minutes ago, Potter said:

You don't have to subscribe, just to register. There is only a paywall if you go over a certain number of articles per month.

As for Dee answering the question directly.  Quite often the answer you give for an interview is longer than the one that appears in print. How do you know that she did not answer directly and then expand on the answer. Maybe she did, or maybe not. The point is that she has answered it before. 

As an example the interview with The Times was over an hour in length, but obviously that cannot all be printed. The journalist will write the story they are interested in, and then the editor will cut it to fit the space/agenda.

The Tempus article is to fit the messaging/agenda of the Muripuri foundation, and the OFF. That answer may have just been show-horned in to tick a target; it does not mean that Dee is avoiding a question.

I guess you have highlighted exactly the point. Everything about this event is now managed to "fit the messaging/agenda" of some organisation or other. What the sailors actually think, feel or say, and news about what is really happening, is edited away from the fans.

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2 hours ago, staysail said:

I guess you have highlighted exactly the point. Everything about this event is now managed to "fit the messaging/agenda" of some organisation or other. What the sailors actually think, feel or say, and news about what is really happening, is edited away from the fans.

You have taken one single point to fit your own agenda. Most of what I wrote was saying that the journalists can take what they want from any interview. Anyway, this has been covered enough. Dee has spoken about it previously, nothing is being hidden or managed; you are just determined to make out that it is.

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More detail on the future boat:

 

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8 Tonnes, canting mast, trim tabs! Cool shit.  Love it.  Thanks JBC.

Screen Shot 2017-09-05 at 10.34.18 AM.png

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5 hours ago, southerncross said:

canting mast,

Canting masts have been done before, fore and aft that is, I sailed on an IOR boat so equipped, very effective in moving the center of effort of the sail plan both upwind and downwind. So can the mast cant port to starboard as well, (a) to keep the sail plan perpendicular to the apparent wind and/or (b) to provide lift?

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1 minute ago, Retired Sailor said:

Canting masts have been done before, fore and aft that is, I sailed on an IOR boat so equipped, very effective in moving the center of effort of the sail plan both upwind and downwind. So can the mast cant port to starboard as well, (a) to keep the sail plan perpendicular to the apparent wind and/or (b) to provide lift?

Port and Starboard can't is not new.

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

Port and Starboard can't is not new.

Okay, so explain what is the benefit, to someone like me who was prevented from canting the mast that way simply by physical rigging and mounting restrictions.

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