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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
JeronimoII

VOR 2017-18

3,711 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

Okay, so explain what is the benefit, to someone like me who was prevented from canting the mast that way simply by physical rigging and mounting restrictions.

Regard the image - although that is a fixed wing.  

It's curious that Bicey commented in this thread that there wouldn't be a canting mast when I asked.  To be fair, the video didn't specify which direction the mast would cant.  I'm assuming P/S.  

Didn't Lending Club have a canting mast? 

2Sailrocket shema.jpg

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3 hours ago, southerncross said:

Port and Starboard can't is not new.

Not that common for monos though, the wide shroud base on a multi makes the loads more manageable

Azko Nobel hitting peaks in the low 30's in trials off Lisbon recently. Anyone know what the max a 65 has seen might be?

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32 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Rant ideal conditions I suspect around 36+ max

High 30's were reported in the last race.

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10 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The 70's could crack 40k+ but not for long..pretty scary. 

It looked like the only limit to the 70's speed was the ability to control it.  Looking at the 65's, I think the rig would break before it maxed out for too long.

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Side track:

Brunel facebook page showing a vinyl topsides wrap... didn't Volvo make a big deal about all the boats being one design i.e. all having a similar weight paint job? Do all the boats have a vinyl wrapped topsides? 

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^^  You have to admit, those were awesome but pretty wet boats.  Picturing the Super 60 potentially reaching and exceeding similar speeds but lifted and a lot less wet.

 

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19 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

Okay, so explain what is the benefit, to someone like me who was prevented from canting the mast that way simply by physical rigging and mounting restrictions.

Canting to windward has several benefits  

1) it gets the rig weight over to windward, which means more righting moment and power/less heal depending on the config.

2) It gets the rig upright, which means more effective sail area up high, where the plan is more efficient, and a more efficient sail plan overall.

3) It gives you a quick depower tool (cant the rig to leeward)

at least that's how it works in the big trimarans i've sailed on

 

 

 

 

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Also, Boat 8 is unbranded as of yesterday morning when i left for the airport.  No nicho, no brits, and no movement.  I'd say 95% likely to be a 7-boat race now, and my guess is that Turner's commercial team is feeling kinda faily right now

 

 

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8 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Canting to windward has several benefits  

1) it gets the rig weight over to windward, which means more righting moment and power/less heal depending on the config.

2) It gets the rig upright, which means more effective sail area up high, where the plan is more efficient, and a more efficient sail plan overall.

3) It gives you a quick depower tool (cant the rig to leeward)

at least that's how it works in the big trimarans i've sailed on

 

 

 

 

In essence more powerful rig, no?

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7 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Also, Boat 8 is unbranded as of yesterday morning when i left for the airport.  No nicho, no brits, and no movement.  I'd say 95% likely to be a 7-boat race now, and my guess is that Turner's commercial team is feeling kinda faily right now

 

 

Pity.

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22 minutes ago, southerncross said:

^^  You have to admit, those were awesome but pretty wet boats.  Picturing the Super 60 potentially reaching and exceeding similar speeds but lifted and a lot less wet.

 

...and nearly half the weight Southern..on paper these new things might give the IMOCA 60's costing more than twice as much a run for their money.

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4 hours ago, The Goose said:

Side track:

Brunel facebook page showing a vinyl topsides wrap... didn't Volvo make a big deal about all the boats being one design i.e. all having a similar weight paint job? Do all the boats have a vinyl wrapped topsides? 

I don't know the answer to the paint/wrap question but here is the video.

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The 70's could crack 40k+ but not for long..pretty scary. 

I can't remember if it was an article or the leg doco from the last race with the 70s when the fleet caught that low onthe approach to Lorient, but there was a quote from Nico on Camper saying they were getting bursts of 40-45kn boatspeed, couldn't controlthe boat and she was just going wherever she wanted, will try and watch that vid today and see if I can find it.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

...and nearly half the weight Southern..on paper these new things might give the IMOCA 60's costing more than twice as much a run for their money.

with all the moveable bits and pieces then these things aint going to be cheap 60s so I reckon they'll easily be as much as a current 60 - the only cost saving over the fleet of ? boats will be the single tooling element and maybe better buying power on rigs and gear.  More stuff though to keep the bigger crew busy, a cheap 60 they are not,

And talk about adding complexity, and how well that all works in the time span they have to get it all debugged to be ready to canter around the planet - MT is in la-la land.

 

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6 hours ago, The Goose said:

Side track:

Brunel facebook page showing a vinyl topsides wrap... didn't Volvo make a big deal about all the boats being one design i.e. all having a similar weight paint job? Do all the boats have a vinyl wrapped topsides? 

I was surprised by this too, I had noticed Brunel, TTP, and Scallywag all had plain white decks where the other four had a painted coach roof at the least. My guess is that they just signed up too late for the boat to go back in the shed and be painted, so they just got wrapped. 

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20 minutes ago, GBH said:

with all the moveable bits and pieces then these things aint going to be cheap 60s so I reckon they'll easily be as much as a current 60 - the only cost saving over the fleet of ? boats will be the single tooling element and maybe better buying power on rigs and gear.  More stuff though to keep the bigger crew busy, a cheap 60 they are not,

And talk about adding complexity, and how well that all works in the time span they have to get it all debugged to be ready to canter around the planet - MT is in la-la land.

 

They'll definitely be cheaper. Splitting the tooling cost 8 ways on hulls, boards, mast, etc. goes a long way. Same with design time. 

The added complexity is a different can of worms. 

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Canting to windward has several benefits  

1) it gets the rig weight over to windward, which means more righting moment and power/less heal depending on the config.

2) It gets the rig upright, which means more effective sail area up high, where the plan is more efficient, and a more efficient sail plan overall.

3) It gives you a quick depower tool (cant the rig to leeward)

at least that's how it works in the big trimarans i've sailed on

WADR the proposed VOR 60 isn't a trimaran, it's a mono-hull with foils. However, I totally agree with 2).

I don't agree with 3) because canting the rig to leeward simply increases the overturning moment  because the power of the sail plan is projected partially downward and to leeward, albeit with less force, because of 2).

As to 1), I agree with the first part, righting moment, but not the more power part, because as you state in 2) having the rig upright to the apparent wind is more efficient, i.e. more powerful!

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32 minutes ago, GBH said:

with all the moveable bits and pieces then these things aint going to be cheap 60s so I reckon they'll easily be as much as a current 60 - the only cost saving over the fleet of ? boats will be the single tooling element and maybe better buying power on rigs and gear.  More stuff though to keep the bigger crew busy, a cheap 60 they are not,

And talk about adding complexity, and how well that all works in the time span they have to get it all debugged to be ready to canter around the planet - MT is in la-la land.

 

 

MT is in la-la land re the in port foiling catamarans - the VOR60s won't be as expensive as the latest IMOCAs because fundamentally it is a fleet boat. VOR has already had good experience working with the naval architect/boat yard/trades being all involved early in the development process and once the design is finalized - the boat/unique hardware will get a nice serial production run that keeps costs lower than IMOCAs that often we don't see more than a few example identical hull/decks arrangements.

Yes design cost will be higher than the latest IMOCA 60s, but price per boat will be 20~40% lower depending on how many they end up building.

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Some 70's quick bit memories...(and at 2.50 when AD got sideswotted)

Thank you Jack, for providing some exciting footage while we wait for the next race. It does tend to show, as have many other videos, why some would not consider a VOR 65 as 'life at the extreme'. However, I suspect that there are some who will do the forthcoming race who would not agree afterwards that their experience was not 'life at the extreme' as they had previously experienced sailing.

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I'd like see a poll from folks who consider the VOR65s a walk in the park re how many ocean miles they've had in the last five years. 

 

The VOR65s aren't the fastest boats in the world, but they're amongst the most robust and if we had a 4 boat of 65 and 4 boat fleet of 70s, more 65s will be at the finish line in the top 5 than the 70s. 

 

I don't think it needed a reminder, but the VOR65 OD saved the Volvo Ocean Race from complete irrelevance as the large sponsors have never really recovered from the great recession and VOR would have not seen a healthy list of teams. 

If you want to see two to three competitive 70s Duke it out then watch a boring sail to the finish after Auckland and cape horn because 2 teams didn't finish a leg... Well you have a strange sense of event coordination...

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35 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I'd like see a poll from folks who consider the VOR65s a walk in the park re how many ocean miles they've had in the last five years. 

 

The VOR65s aren't the fastest boats in the world, but they're amongst the most robust and if we had a 4 boat of 65 and 4 boat fleet of 70s, more 65s will be at the finish line in the top 5 than the 70s. 

 

I don't think it needed a reminder, but the VOR65 OD saved the Volvo Ocean Race from complete irrelevance as the large sponsors have never really recovered from the great recession and VOR would have not seen a healthy list of teams. 

If you want to see two to three competitive 70s Duke it out then watch a boring sail to the finish after Auckland and cape horn because 2 teams didn't finish a leg... Well you have a strange sense of event coordination...

"Saved" is a relative term especially when attracting sponsorship for the 8th boat (and 7th arguably) doesn't seem likely.  And if they were the end all solution I don't think MT et al would have sought out such an extreme new build in the next edition.  I guess the 65's did keep the notion of a crewed RTW race alive.

The new boats bring the race full circle - wilder, faster, more moving parts to get a handle on, to spread the fleet out and yes, more parts to break from pushing the boats to the edge.  And this, to me, is Life at the Extreme, strange or not. 

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In re VOR60 + foiling cat - I think we are seeing the diff styles between Mark and Knut.

Knut really saw the future a couple of years before everyone else and dragged ppl crying and whining to the OD. Without his leadership, 2015 would have been a sad year for Volvo. 

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18 minutes ago, Miffy said:

In re VOR60 + foiling cat - I think we are seeing the diff styles between Mark and Knut.

Knut really saw the future a couple of years before everyone else and dragged ppl crying and whining to the OD. Without his leadership, 2015 would have been a sad year for Volvo. 

I liked Knut.

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3 hours ago, GBH said:

with all the moveable bits and pieces then these things aint going to be cheap 60s so I reckon they'll easily be as much as a current 60 - the only cost saving over the fleet of ? boats will be the single tooling element and maybe better buying power on rigs and gear.  More stuff though to keep the bigger crew busy, a cheap 60 they are not,

 

Big savings with OD. Moulds and tooling are big ticket items. Appendages tooling alone is a fuckin fortune...for just the keel and hydraulics half a fortune. Also big savings getting detailing efficiencies and doing a away with a lot head scratching by using a mock-up. I would not be surprised if these things are half the cost of say HB, BP etc. More importantly they have to be otherwise what is the point of having OD over box rule?

 

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La la land indeed. The cost of building a production run of complex fully developed mechanical items is indeed much lower than the cost of 8 different equally complex prototype items. However, in normal manufacturing, for example car production, that assumes there will have been a development program to maximise the chances of the item being a success. The cost of that development program will far exceed the cost of 8 production items, and it will be amortised over a production run of many thousands of items, not 8!!!
No manufacturer in his right mind would tool up for a productioon run without first having run through a product develoment and testing program during which he will probably have made a number of different prototypes each of which will have cost vastly more than 8 production items. Thus any assumption that the new 60's will be cheap must be seen in light of the risks of jumping in with both feet to manufacture a design which has not been through a development and testing program, and just hope it will work well.
The get-out clause for MT and the VOR with a decision like this is that if the boat is one-design and only races against itself, there is no yardstick against which it can be compared. You could say that its actual performance is irrelevant!
There is no valid comparison with boats like proto minis and Imocas because those boats are effectively the "prototypes" from which subsequent fast production sailing boats eventually learn and incorporate new design features, materials, and manufacturing techniques.
The interesting question is what kind of prototype evaluation and development and testing program will have been completed before the new design is proved suitable for series manufacturing and what will that cost? And indeed, is there enough time available to run a development and test program?
The new design is said to incorporate a combination of mechanical features such as elevators, foils, etc, which will all have to work together without vices and it is a bit of a stretch of the imagination to believe that any designer can get all that right straight of the drawing board (or out of the computer!) without having a develoment and test program involving building and sailing a few boats before finalising the design for series production.
My conclusion is that the boat is either going to be a dog or a very expensive animal.

Does anyone really think the 65 would have been as heavy, slow, and tender, if it had had an adequate development and test program before it was manufactured?

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Staysail no one with even half a brain and a bees dick knowledge of boat building has beer for breakfast anymore.

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MAPFRE complete 2017-18 squad with signing of another America's Cup ace

The Spanish team presented their star-studded line-up at an event in Sanxenxo, and announced a last-minute addition – Oracle Team USA athlete Louis Sinclair

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9909_MAPFRE-complete-2017-18-squad-with-signing-of-another-America-s-Cup-ace.html

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5 hours ago, staysail said:

La la land indeed. The cost of building a production run of complex fully developed mechanical items is indeed much lower than the cost of 8 different equally complex prototype items. However, in normal manufacturing, for example car production, that assumes there will have been a development program to maximise the chances of the item being a success. The cost of that development program will far exceed the cost of 8 production items, and it will be amortised over a production run of many thousands of items, not 8!!!
No manufacturer in his right mind would tool up for a productioon run without first having run through a product develoment and testing program during which he will probably have made a number of different prototypes each of which will have cost vastly more than 8 production items. Thus any assumption that the new 60's will be cheap must be seen in light of the risks of jumping in with both feet to manufacture a design which has not been through a development and testing program, and just hope it will work well.
The get-out clause for MT and the VOR with a decision like this is that if the boat is one-design and only races against itself, there is no yardstick against which it can be compared. You could say that its actual performance is irrelevant!
There is no valid comparison with boats like proto minis and Imocas because those boats are effectively the "prototypes" from which subsequent fast production sailing boats eventually learn and incorporate new design features, materials, and manufacturing techniques.
The interesting question is what kind of prototype evaluation and development and testing program will have been completed before the new design is proved suitable for series manufacturing and what will that cost? And indeed, is there enough time available to run a development and test program?
The new design is said to incorporate a combination of mechanical features such as elevators, foils, etc, which will all have to work together without vices and it is a bit of a stretch of the imagination to believe that any designer can get all that right straight of the drawing board (or out of the computer!) without having a develoment and test program involving building and sailing a few boats before finalising the design for series production.
My conclusion is that the boat is either going to be a dog or a very expensive animal.

Does anyone really think the 65 would have been as heavy, slow, and tender, if it had had an adequate development and test program before it was manufactured?

Ye of little faith.  I don't think there was any disillusionment about the 65.  It was built to Knut's specifications and that's what they got.  I believe it performed to VOR expectations.

A lot of assumptions here.  No testing. No prototypes.  No benchmarks.  If there is no benchmark then it can't possibly be a dog.  

The benchmark is obviously the performance of the VO65 and the current and future breed of IMOCA's (if they are to compete against them).  Having 12 boats in the last Vendee, Verdier will undoubtably have more in the next edition and the development made here, in the AC and on Gitana will find it's way into future IMOCA's.

I wouldn't call the MINI and IMOCA classes "prototypes".  There isn't any one design firm (like an auto manufacturer) producing multiple variations on a theme before committing to a build.  The Mini/IMOCA are more "experimental" classes, whose ideas are tested against each other on the course (e.g.. HB and Banc Populaire).  Those successful ideas are further developed and refined and made standard equipment whilst other radical ideas are introduced by multiple competing entities.

The proven technology gleaned from the Mini/IMOCA makes it's way into other classes including the Volvo and the new Super60. This time, however, the designer responsible for much of the innovation is the same designer responsible for much of the current successful innovation in the IMOCA and AC.  This isn't guess work in which multiple prototypes need to be developed to find out if it works.  They know it works.  Can they get a MONO to fully foil?  Verdier's HB was so close, just dragging it's arse.   

I can't recall seeing a portotype built by any boat manufacturer in recent memory.  Beneteau's new Fig?  The computer modeling has done away with that, no?  Does anyone tank test anymore besides in academia?  Where are these prototypes?

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, southerncross said:

In essence more powerful rig, no?

Same rig, effectively taller and lighter, all for the cost of two big cylinders and some pressure lines.  You already have the rotary pump, you already have the wide shroud base.  No brainer.

 

Rig will likely rotate too, giving another nice efficiency bump to the mainsail.

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8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Staysail no one with even half a brain and a bees dick knowledge of boat building has beer for breakfast anymore.

Not hugely amusing, not that clever either, - and yes, I once used to think you had some worthwhile things to say about boats Jack.

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7 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Emily Nagel joins team AkzoNobel

The Bermuda-born sailor has joined Simeon Tienpont's squad for 2017-18 – making her the 11th confirmed member of the Dutch team

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9910_Emily-Nagel-joins-team-AkzoNobel.html

 

Congrats Em! Switched on sailor and a good human. They'll do well to have her.

 

HW

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Posted on the previous page.

yeah just saw that... didn't have time to delete my post

you guys are too quick

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3 hours ago, Haligonian Winterr said:

Congrats Em! Switched on sailor and a good human. They'll do well to have her.

 

HW

 

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^ Looks like the VOR gets all the beauties.
44 days to the start,? 
Can't wait..

Uhh By the way: any comments on the new concept for the future VOR?
 

future concept vor.jpg

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18 hours ago, southerncross said:

 

Very cool to see Bill Erkelens on the shore team.  Brings a huge amount of experience and skill.  Could easily jump in as a crew member too!

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I'm going to ask a dumb question, in the hope that somebody on this forum knows the answer. Who is going to be the navigator on TToP?  While I'm sure Dee could handle it after all her solo experience, being skipper and navigator would seem to be an unnecessary additional burden given the predominantly young crew? I tried checking the bios of those named to date, but no-one else stood out as having navigational experience.

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3 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

I'm going to ask a dumb question, in the hope that somebody on this forum knows the answer. Who is going to be the navigator on TToP?  While I'm sure Dee could handle it after all her solo experience, being skipper and navigator would seem to be an unnecessary additional burden given the predominantly young crew? I tried checking the bios of those named to date, but no-one else stood out as having navigational experience.

Not announced yet.

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4 hours ago, Potter said:

Not announced yet.

Just throwing it out there, but I understand this navigator made some excellent calls last time. Might be worth a look?

 

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1 hour ago, jbc said:

Just throwing it out there, but I understand this navigator made some excellent calls last time. Might be worth a look?

I, for one, was expecting to see Libby somewhere in the Fastnet (or Leg Zero), but she seemed to be doing her own thing, i.e. advertising weather forecasting for anyone who wanted it. Let's wait patiently and see! Me, I'm waiting for the relatively old guy to get named. Why, because we have an equal squad announced of 5w a 5m, all except two of which I think are under 30 although I haven't revisited the ages. But Libby is 37, so if she comes on board full time then there have to be at least one or two over 30 males to keep  gender and age parity on each leg! Just speculating, because Dee's full complement is still to be announced, as is Senor Witt's. I'm not waiting for the latter. We shall see.

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Volvo Ocean Race - MAPFRE presented to HM King Juan Carlos

The complete MAPFRE team have been presented today at the Real Club Náutico in Sanxenxo, the team’s training base, in the presence of His Majesty King Juan Carlos of Spain, the team’s CEO Pedro Campos, and MAPFRE CEO, Antonio Huertas.

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Volvo-Ocean-Race---MAPFRE-presented-to-HM-King-Juan-Carlos/157077

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Rolex Sydney Hobart and Volvo Ocean Race winner offered for sale

One of the world’s top ocean racers, Giacomo also won the 2011/12 Volvo Ocean Race as Groupama 4, skippered by Franck Cammas.

She is the only racing yacht to have been a round the world race winner and then extended her racing career into a win in one of the worlds three classic offshore races. In between, Giacomo has won line honours and set records in most of the SW Pacific racing circuits.

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Rolex-Sydney-Hobart-and-Volvo-Ocean-Race-winner-offered-for-sale/157148

Large_SOL13_08211.jpg

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^^^^ She and Black Jack (ex Telefonica) have been superbly set up and raced hard by their owners and make a mockery of those (inc Farr when heralding the arrival of their 65' trucks) that say the 70's were only good enough for one trip around the orange. I think BJ still has its original (but lengthened) rig.

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22 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^ She and Black Jack (ex Telefonica) have been superbly set up and raced hard by their owners and make a mockery of those (inc Farr when heralding the arrival of their 65' trucks) that say the 70's were only good enough for one trip around the orange. I think BJ still has its original (but lengthened) rig.

Theyve both had plenty of structural work done, both only do short races between maintenance down times and both have had a lot spent on maintenance under current ownership and IIRC have been for a good part of the time dry sailed.  

Makes a mockery of nothing IMHO

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America's Cup - Italians say monohulls will be used in the next Cup

Reports emanating from the Italian newspaper La Stampa suggested that the 36th America's Cup, to be sailed in New Zealand, would be held in monohulls.

They were confirmed as being correct at 6.00pm NZT by the America's Cup Defender, Emirates Team New Zealand.

Fabio Pozzo, a sailing correspondent for La Stampa, reported from the Maxi Yacht Rolex Cup at Porto Cervo and apparently managed to get the Patron of Luna Rossa, Patrizio Bertelli and skipper Max Sirena to respond to questions outlining the parameters of the next America's Cup Class.

Using an online translator, the key points of the Italian were that a monohull would be used and that the use of a monohull was a pre-condition of Luna Rossa assisting Emirates Team NZ in the last America's Cup.

They confirmed that the Protocol for the 36th America's Cup would be announced at the end of September. 

There was no real detail on type of monohull, except they are reported to have commented: 'They will be very powerful boats, but technical details, for example, with the foils or the canting keel, we'll see them later.'

It was also confirmed that there would be nationality restrictions - but did not elaborate as to whether it would be for sailing crew or permeate further into the team.

It would also seem that there will be pre-America's Cup race circuits as existed in the last two editions with the America's Cup World Series, and the Acts held in the years when Swiss based Team Alinghi held the America's Cup for two cycles.

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup---Italians-say-monohulls-will-be-used-in-the-next-Cup/157153

Verdier is a very influential man in high concept racing these days.  The beginning of the effort to try to sync the big races.

 

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Dock Talk #2

With just one week to go before the beginning of the Assembly Period begins, the Volvo Ocean Race teams are squeezing as many miles out of their boats as possible

With just one week to go before the beginning of the Assembly Period – when all of the boats will be lifted out of the water at the Boatyard in Lisbon – the Volvo Ocean Race teams are squeezing as many miles out of their boats as possible.

"You need to trust each other, it's a game – but if you don't play, you both lose" – Charles Caudrelier, Dongfeng Race Team

The Chinese team have just started their second week of two-boat testing alongside MAPFRE in Sanxenxo, Spain – and things are starting to shape up after some long inshore training days.

At the weekend, the two pre-race favourites ventured offshore for a 12 hour race – and then did battle in the Regatta Rey Juan Carlos. The pair faced off in three races on Saturday, with the Spanish team taking victory in the first and third, and Dongfeng grabbing a win in the second. One thing's for sure, it's going to be a close battle around the world for these two!

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9920_Dock-Talk-2.html

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16 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^ She and Black Jack (ex Telefonica) have been superbly set up and raced hard by their owners and make a mockery of those (inc Farr when heralding the arrival of their 65' trucks) that say the 70's were only good enough for one trip around the orange. I think BJ still has its original (but lengthened) rig.

Warrior, another V70 breaking records.  From the Front Page.

The turbo Volvo70 Warrior (ex-Camper) continues to break records, and all for a good cause! (Get involved here). Here’s more from the guy running the show:

Warrior just broke the decade-old record for the Vineyard Race, finishing in 17 hours and 42 minutes!  The previous record was set in 2007 by Blue Yankee recorded in 2007, and the 2017 race was one of the most competitive in memory, with a record number of participants and a quick trip for the fleet.

Warrior-Jclass-2017.jpg

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Seems to me, that with Dongfeng/Mapfre and Akzo/Vestas two boat testing, Dee and Bouwe should get together two boat testing and shut the door on Scallywag!!

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On 11/09/2017 at 1:02 PM, southerncross said:

Rolex Sydney Hobart and Volvo Ocean Race winner offered for sale

One of the world’s top ocean racers, Giacomo also won the 2011/12 Volvo Ocean Race as Groupama 4, skippered by Franck Cammas.

She is the only racing yacht to have been a round the world race winner and then extended her racing career into a win in one of the worlds three classic offshore races. In between, Giacomo has won line honours and set records in most of the SW Pacific racing circuits.

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Rolex-Sydney-Hobart-and-Volvo-Ocean-Race-winner-offered-for-sale/157148

Large_SOL13_08211.jpg

Didn't NZ endeavour wind the Whitbread then the Sydney to hobart?

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^^^Line Honours yes in 94....chartered by Clifford of Incat fame..but didn't get the Tatts Trophy like Giacomo. Also Endevours Whitbread win was bullshit as that was the first year of the 60's that made her and the Dalton show look pretty ordinary.

 

 

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11 hours ago, southerncross said:

Two-boat, or not two-boat?

That is the question as Dongfeng and MAPFRE team up for a peculiar set of boat on boat training sessions in Sanxenxo

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9917_Two-boat-or-not-two-boat.html

Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.  Those two went toe to tow in the first few races so I can see this match up and the duel continuing into the race.  Brunel and TToP would help each other in ramping up speed.  On a different note, I love Brunel's latest crew selection.

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Chuny has left AkzoNobel, quietly. Just a short note from the team on their FB feed, praising him. This would have been his 7th race, having won the last one with ADOR. Anyone has some details on the reasons, and if it was team triggered or by Chuny? 

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On 9/8/2017 at 8:16 PM, Retired Sailor said:

I, for one, was expecting to see Libby somewhere in the Fastnet (or Leg Zero), but she seemed to be doing her own thing, i.e. advertising weather forecasting for anyone who wanted it. Let's wait patiently and see! Me, I'm waiting for the relatively old guy to get named. Why, because we have an equal squad announced of 5w a 5m, all except two of which I think are under 30 although I haven't revisited the ages. But Libby is 37, so if she comes on board full time then there have to be at least one or two over 30 males to keep  gender and age parity on each leg! Just speculating, because Dee's full complement is still to be announced, as is Senor Witt's. I'm not waiting for the latter. We shall see.

I would have though Libby Greenhalgh would have been 1st pick for a few teams, the gender rules seem made for it. Worried about the strength of women vs men...... Female navigator seems like a no brainer to me.

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Is there a bit of shuffling going on. Abby Ehler just announced of brunel, I thought she was on Mapf or Dong for the leg 0 stuff. Brunel has announced Capey, seems to solidify there competitiveness some what. I'm giving them 3rd with Mapf or Dong for 1 and 2

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2 hours ago, JeronimoII said:

Chuny has left AkzoNobel, quietly. Just a short note from the team on their FB feed, praising him. This would have been his 7th race, having won the last one with ADOR. Anyone has some details on the reasons, and if it was team triggered or by Chuny? 

I know Chuny, I spent sometime with him this summer... Can't say I'm surprised.

 

And reading the team note, the answer seems clear:

 

"Spanish sailor Roberto Bermúdez de Castro has withdrawn from team AkzoNobel’s 2017-18 Volvo Ocean Race campaign. “Chuny” – as he is best known to everyone – made the decision to stand down from his position as helmsman and sail trimmer late last week.
 
Team AkzoNobel skipper Simeon Tienpont said he and the entire team were sorry to lose someone as experienced as Chuny from the crew.

“We are all very grateful for the incredible contribution Chuny made to developing the sailing team while he was with us. He is a fantastic individual and a great sailor. I’m sure our paths will cross again somewhere in the future.”

No decision has been made at this stage for a replacement."

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5 hours ago, V21 said:

Is there a bit of shuffling going on. Abby Ehler just announced of brunel, I thought she was on Mapf or Dong for the leg 0 stuff.

Certainly looks as if there is some shuffling going on, because Abby Ehler was named on Vestas/11th Hour, not Mapfre or Dongfeng. Perhaps the difference in the views on mixed gender crews between Abby and Phil Harmer in their interview on UK YouTube came to a head? Either that or there is some poaching going on, i.e. getting a better offer?

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Who knows. There were some sharp comments that teams were paying very little for female crew. Less than can be explained with a Newbie factor.

I guess updated VOR team lists will take a while. :)

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5 hours ago, V21 said:

Worried about the strength of women vs men.

I don't believe what is going on now has anything to do with the strength of women vs men. I think it has everything to do with who or what fits best. Five days to go before the boats have to show up for the "Assembly Period" and then the crews have to go to Newcastle UK for survival training. So, I'm going out on a limb here, (no videos please Jack) and speculate that Chuny is going to TToP, along with Libby. Dee does not need muscle, she already has five strong keen guys, but Chuny could be the "somewhat older guy" that I mentioned I was waiting for in a previous post.  I figured he would be the navigator, but Libby would do that admirably, so he would be the experienced "somewhat older guy" to add balance to those already named

The build up to the forthcoming race is much more a cliff hanger than the previous one. Must be hell out there for everyone involved.

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3 hours ago, Chasm said:

Who knows. There were some sharp comments that teams were paying very little for female crew. Less than can be explained with a Newbie factor.

I guess updated VOR team lists will take a while. :)

Would be curious to know what Burling is making in comparison to some female sailors who've done ocean racing and even a VOR.  The idea that this sport is paying based on gender is asinine since you should be paying for experience first.  It's been shown in the last Event that woman, as one whole crew put together a winning leg and they podiumed in-port.  To even think to pay them less based on gender...stupid.  Burling should be getting newbie pay since by his own statement he's got no ocean experience and Sophie should be getting a nice salary for hers.   

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4 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

Certainly looks as if there is some shuffling going on, because Abby Ehler was named on Vestas/11th Hour, not Mapfre or Dongfeng. Perhaps the difference in the views on mixed gender crews between Abby and Phil Harmer in their interview on UK YouTube came to a head? Either that or there is some poaching going on, i.e. getting a better offer?

"Abby Ehler and Andrew Cape to join Team Brunel"

This is a great decision and may really help Brunel given the late entry.  Poaching?  Sure for there is talent, but there was no love found between Phil and Abby.  Carry that for 27,000K and it might have made for a very tense boat.

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3 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

I don't believe what is going on now has anything to do with the strength of women vs men. I think it has everything to do with who or what fits best. Five days to go before the boats have to show up for the "Assembly Period" and then the crews have to go to Newcastle UK for survival training. So, I'm going out on a limb here, (no videos please Jack) and speculate that Chuny is going to TToP, along with Libby. Dee does not need muscle, she already has five strong keen guys, but Chuny could be the "somewhat older guy" that I mentioned I was waiting for in a previous post.  I figured he would be the navigator, but Libby would do that admirably, so he would be the experienced "somewhat older guy" to add balance to those already named

The build up to the forthcoming race is much more a cliff hanger than the previous one. Must be hell out there for everyone involved.

One hates to sound pedantic but they go to South Shields, not Newcastle.

As a graduate of that fine institution, I felt it necessary to point this out.

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51 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Would be curious to know what Burling is making in comparison to some female sailors who've done ocean racing and even a VOR.  The idea that this sport is paying based on gender is asinine since you should be paying for experience first.  It's been shown in the last Event that woman, as one whole crew put together a winning leg and they podiumed in-port.  To even think to pay them less based on gender...stupid.  Burling should be getting newbie pay since by his own statement he's got no ocean experience and Sophie should be getting a nice salary for hers.   

Not quite "no ocean experience". Pete has done at least one if not 2 Hobart's and 2 Fiji races to my knowledge. Added to that he is an unbelievable talent helming. If you think he should be getting "newbie pay" you need to bid for jousting sticks.

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36 minutes ago, dr_dave said:

Not quite "no ocean experience". Pete has done at least one if not 2 Hobart's and 2 Fiji races to my knowledge. Added to that he is an unbelievable talent helming. If you think he should be getting "newbie pay" you need to bid for jousting sticks.

Besides the talent, at the moment Burling is an all star, top of the game.  His marketing collateral alone is worth something.  I don't think even the veteran VOR sailors carry anywhere near as much notoriety.  Hollywood puts big stars in movies to boost box office receipts - except the stars don't always have the talent.  This is a win/win.

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On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 6:54 AM, Miffy said:

I'd like see a poll from folks who consider the VOR65s a walk in the park re how many ocean miles they've had in the last five years. 

 

The VOR65s aren't the fastest boats in the world, but they're amongst the most robust and if we had a 4 boat of 65 and 4 boat fleet of 70s, more 65s will be at the finish line in the top 5 than the 70s. 

 

I don't think it needed a reminder, but the VOR65 OD saved the Volvo Ocean Race from complete irrelevance as the large sponsors have never really recovered from the great recession and VOR would have not seen a healthy list of teams. 

If you want to see two to three competitive 70s Duke it out then watch a boring sail to the finish after Auckland and cape horn because 2 teams didn't finish a leg... Well you have a strange sense of event coordination...

You are so right Miffy and as I have said before the VO70s were awesome boats but not "fit for the purpose" with at times half the fleet completing legs on barges, decks of ships or the back of a truck it hardly led to riveting viewing unless you were running a book on who was going to break what and when. One mast drop causing a leg non-completion out of 7 boats over - what was it 8 legs is a pretty good reliability story.

It may be a cliché but to finish first - first you have to finish.

The Whitbread/Volvo is full of shattered dreams where something was allowed by a rule to be built lighter than the task required. the W60 Tokyo's mast break, Dalton's similar experience in the Maxis, La Post, Fortuna, Ericsson, Abu Dhabi, Telefonica, Sanya - the list of leg stopping failures goes on and on. Even Groupama's race would have been over had the mast failed in a different place (globally or on the mast itself) and had the boat had a less resourceful and resilient crew.

Compare that to just one troublesome mast (DFRT) in the last race where their mast troubles started on either leg one or two and I think the VO65 makes a much more sensible choice for racing around the world.

Anyway with just 1 month until the race village opens in Alicante we will soon see if the race is a boring procession of clunkers (gotta love how many forum members who have probably never hit 20 knots on any kind of boat think the 65s are slow) or a "keep you awake at night" series of close racing with minutes separating th etop boats at each finish line and an evolving points table to match.

Then at the end of it all they are going to a 2 year cycle - bloody hell!! What about OUR recovery time :-)

SS

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6 hours ago, Retired Sailor said:

I don't believe what is going on now has anything to do with the strength of women vs men. I think it has everything to do with who or what fits best. Five days to go before the boats have to show up for the "Assembly Period" and then the crews have to go to Newcastle UK for survival training. So, I'm going out on a limb here, (no videos please Jack) and speculate that Chuny is going to TToP, along with Libby. Dee does not need muscle, she already has five strong keen guys, but Chuny could be the "somewhat older guy" that I mentioned I was waiting for in a previous post.  I figured he would be the navigator, but Libby would do that admirably, so he would be the experienced "somewhat older guy" to add balance to those already named

The build up to the forthcoming race is much more a cliff hanger than the previous one. Must be hell out there for everyone involved.

We may see exactly that in the up and coming Volvo if a team with girls can finish well in front of Scallywag? 

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4 hours ago, DFL1010 said:

One hates to sound pedantic but they go to South Shields, not Newcastle.

As a graduate of that fine institution, I felt it necessary to point this out.

Be as pedantic as you like, but VOR said Newcastle, and South Shields is just down the river. I know that area of England particularly well, but not because of sailing. However, you missed my point, which was that anyone going on the race has to be there for survival training, unless there's a dispensation for those who have recently qualified already. So that should reveal who is on the teams, even if they haven't been officially announced.

 

1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

We may see exactly that in the up and coming Volvo if a team with girls can finish well in front of Scallywag? 

Well 6 teams with women already did finish well in front of Scallywag in Leg Zero, so what's your point?

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33 minutes ago, Retired Sailor said:

Be as pedantic as you like, but VOR said Newcastle, and South Shields is just down the river.

Never tell a Sand Dancer he's a Geordie man!

 

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7 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

"Abby Ehler and Andrew Cape to join Team Brunel"

This is a great decision and may really help Brunel given the late entry.  Poaching?  Sure for there is talent, but there was no love found between Phil and Abby.  Carry that for 27,000K and it might have made for a very tense boat.

I'm guessing that Abby don't want to repeat the experience from SCA, where they had to carefully plan their watch system as to who can tolerate who's face.

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2 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

I'm guessing that Abby don't want to repeat the experience from SCA, where they had to carefully plan their watch
system as to who can tolerate who's face.

Hi Norbow girl..
Another article to confirm your announcement:
http://maritiemnieuws.nl/81339/team-brunel-haalt-ervaren-duo-abby-ehler-en-andrew-cape-aan-boord/?uid=3128

 

Team Brunel takes on experienced duo Abby Ehler and Andrew Cape on board
zoom
Abby Ehler at Team Brunel. Photo: James Blake, Volvo Ocean Race.
Team Brunel, with British Abby Ehler and Australian Andrew Cape, has ample experience on board the Volvo Ocean Race 2017-18. This duo is good for 8 Volvo Ocean Races. Navigator Cape goes third with schipper Bouwe Bekking around the world after finishing in the previous edition with Team Brunel as second overall. For Ehler, it becomes a reunion with Team SCA team mate Annie Lush.

Schipper Bouwe Bekking: "Abby is one of the women with the most nautical miles in the legs. I've known her since the Amer Sports campaign of 2001-02. She is a very good sailor, so we are pleased with her arrival at Team Brunel. She has a lot of technical knowledge and therefore takes on the role of boot manager. With Andrew we have one of the best navigators in the world. Just look at his sail cv. What did he not win? We can work together well and trust each other. That's a must when you go around the world. "

The 55-year-old navigator Andrew Cape will start his seventh edition, the third with Bouwe Bekking and the second with Team Brunel. Cape: "Bouwe and I have sailed so many races together, so we know each other again and again. I'm there again because I believe in this team and I would like to transfer my experience. Eventually this is a league and I want to win. "

In 2001-02, Abby Ehler launched her Race debut with Amer Sports Too. Thirteen years later, Team SCA continued. Due to changes in the rules regarding the number of sailors allowed on board, most of the teams now choose a mixed 

abby-ehler-bij-team-brunel-foto-james-bl

Have ever sailed with her Norbow girl?

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3 minutes ago, schakel488 said:
Have ever sailed with her Norbow girl?

No, I haven't  :) I haven't sailed with ANY vor-sailors. But have cheered with some of them in Hobart :D 

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8 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

No, I haven't  :) I haven't sailed with ANY vor-sailors. But have cheered with some of them in Hobart :D 

Great,

I was in Hobart in 1988. But that was quitte a long time ago.
Have you seen Scallywag, Perpentual Loyal, Raggamuffin and WOXI?
I know you sailed with team Raggamuffin.

I have one very good tip for all of us:
Follow team Akzo Nobel with skipper Simeon Tienpoint in the upcoming VOR.

But I wouldn't mind if Team Brunel would win either.
Long live the Dutch. Holland has most VOR victories from all participating countries.
Team Ericson was swedish wasn't it?
Did Norway ever competed as one team?

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1 hour ago, schakel488 said:

Great,

I was in Hobart in 1988. But that was quitte a long time ago.
Have you seen Scallywag, Perpentual Loyal, Raggamuffin and WOXI?
I know you sailed with team Raggamuffin.

I have one very good tip for all of us:
Follow team Akzo Nobel with skipper Simeon Tienpoint in the upcoming VOR.

But I wouldn't mind if Team Brunel would win either.
Long live the Dutch. Holland has most VOR victories from all participating countries.
Team Ericson was swedish wasn't it?
Did Norway ever competed as one team?

I wanted to see WOXI but they retired from the race and all I got to do was carry their delivery sails and battens onboard Ragamuffin to bring them back to Sydney... :) I haven't seen the other boats....

I will probably cheer for Brunel this time around, as I also did the last time.

Ericsson was swedish yes, and I'm not sure if one can say that Norway has had a team? Knut Frostad was captain on 2 teams, Innovation Kvaerner and Djuice, both Norwegian companies but probably international crews. In the Whitbread, there was at leas one Norwegian entry, Berge Viking. Fun fact about that team, one man lied about being a chef and was assigned as chef on the team, Claus Landmark. He later designed the Landmark 43, one of my favorite boats, and now has won the ORC Worlds (2016) and lot of other races, with his Landmark 43, Santa.

Ok, back to the topic :) Our sailing season ends in two weeks, and after that it will be a lot of fun following the VOR from the armchair. I might also play the game :)

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5 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

Ericsson was swedish yes, and I'm not sure if one can say that Norway has had a team? Knut Frostad was captain on 2 teams, Innovation Kvaerner and Djuice, both Norwegian companies but probably international crews. In the Whitbread, there was at leas one Norwegian entry, Berge Viking. 

Knut Frostad teams (don't ask how I remember, and do correct me if I'm wrong, which is very much likely);

 - Innovation Kværner in Withbread 97-98 had 4 Norwegians and 17 non-Norwegians (including replacements along the way). Fully sponsored by Norwegian companies. Winston from the previous Withbread was bought as a training platform for over a year, until "Innovation Kværner II" who was built in Mandal (Norway) was launched in the summer of 97.

 - Djuice in VOR 01-02 had 5 out of 13 Norwegians on the starting line, iirc. Dunno what happened in regards to replacements after that, and if there was any more Norwegians involved racing (but I have a feeling that at least one more Norwegian sailed a later leg). Think this was also fully sponsored by Norwegian companies.

So by my account Norway has absolutely had teams, most other teams is multinational anyway.

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15 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

You are so right Miffy and as I have said before the VO70s were awesome boats but not "fit for the purpose" with at times half the fleet completing legs on barges, decks of ships or the back of a truck it hardly led to riveting viewing unless you were running a book on who was going to break what and when. One mast drop causing a leg non-completion out of 7 boats over - what was it 8 legs is a pretty good reliability story.

It may be a cliché but to finish first - first you have to finish.

The Whitbread/Volvo is full of shattered dreams where something was allowed by a rule to be built lighter than the task required. the W60 Tokyo's mast break, Dalton's similar experience in the Maxis, La Post, Fortuna, Ericsson, Abu Dhabi, Telefonica, Sanya - the list of leg stopping failures goes on and on. Even Groupama's race would have been over had the mast failed in a different place (globally or on the mast itself) and had the boat had a less resourceful and resilient crew.

Compare that to just one troublesome mast (DFRT) in the last race where their mast troubles started on either leg one or two and I think the VO65 makes a much more sensible choice for racing around the world.

Anyway with just 1 month until the race village opens in Alicante we will soon see if the race is a boring procession of clunkers (gotta love how many forum members who have probably never hit 20 knots on any kind of boat think the 65s are slow) or a "keep you awake at night" series of close racing with minutes separating th etop boats at each finish line and an evolving points table to match.

Then at the end of it all they are going to a 2 year cycle - bloody hell!! What about OUR recovery time :-)

SS

Hi mate, going by the last Race I think it will be more like the "Awake at Night" thing :):D and we both will have some sleepless Nights at the Leg Finishes I suspect.

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17 hours ago, Terrorvision said:

Never tell a Sand Dancer he's a Geordie man!

Good point, but if any of the crews happen to catch a bus in either Newcastle or South Shields (which I doubt) and the conductor is a woman, I hope that they won't take offence at being called hinny, whatever gender the crew happen to be!

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R-S,

I can't wait for the Race to start. May the best Team win. I'm hoping as I said numerous times Dongfeng.

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Schakel488 "Long live the Dutch. Holland has most VOR victories from all participating countries."

Really, depends on whether you mean boats or skippers.

Holland - Conny x 2 plus - well plus no-one

New Zealand - Peter Blake, Grant Dalton (Maxis) Ross Field (W-60) Mike Sanderson (VO70)

And if you start adding up the nationality of crews on victorious boats then the Kiwis have it hands down - don't they?? :-)

 

SS

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30 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Schakel488 "Long live the Dutch. Holland has most VOR victories from all participating countries."

Really, depends on whether you mean boats or skippers.

Holland - Conny x 2 plus - well plus no-one

New Zealand - Peter Blake, Grant Dalton (Maxis) Ross Field (W-60) Mike Sanderson (VO70)

And if you start adding up the nationality of crews on victorious boats then the Kiwis have it hands down - don't they?? :-)

 

SS

^ True, Latest photo from Skipper Simeon Tienpoint on Team Akzo Nobel boat.
Doing a power nap.
His own comment:
Never underestimate the importance of a power nap! snatches 40 winks back during Leg Zero.

Source:

https://twitter.com/teamAkzoNobel

 

Simeon Tienpoint.jpg

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Hi Schakel

Please take any of my comments as friendly banter and not a put down ;-)

Perhaps this next race will have a French Skipper and the first ever Chinese crew as winners - I have good reasons for hoping for that he he

SS

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9 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Hi Schakel

Please take any of my comments as friendly banter and not a put down ;-)

Perhaps this next race will have a French Skipper and the first ever Chinese crew as winners - I have good reasons for hoping for that he he

SS

I already did.
Thanks
http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/teams/Dongfeng-Race-Team.html
You mean Team Dong Feng?
Skipper Charles Chauldrier.
Jiru Yang Wolf.
Stan Jinhao Horace
Liu Xue Black
Carolein Brouwe and many more.
I am a big fan of Carolijn for obvious reasons.


Charles Caudrelier

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You would think that at this level they would have at least proof read the SI's before publishing them.

Section 3 "The Start" I notice they remove the 'P' flag twice having never hoisted it. 

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12 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

You would think that at this level they would have at least proof read the SI's before publishing them.

Section 3 "The Start" I notice they remove the 'P' flag twice having never hoisted it. 

Too Funny!

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^^^ Nice touch. Lots of the old Whitbread guys still very much involved in the sport. I think Dirk was one of the exceptions and went normal. There was a Flyer 30 year crew reunion in Alicante to coincide with the start of the 2011/12 race which was very timely in view of Conny's death in 2013.

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20 minutes ago, Just another plonker said:

If I was to visit the boatyard sometime over the next two weeks, would there be anything to see?  Worth a stop?

 

I'll be there on Saturday, wondering the same thing... Actually I visited last time around and they had quite a set up for visitors.

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The assembly period started this Monday and will last until the 30th. All boats must be in the Boatyard during that time.
Right now all of them are out of the water going through a final refit / check&repair followed by measurement and OD certification for the race. 

 

So chances are very good that there is something to see. :)
OTOH chances are also that access is more restricted since everyone in the Boatyard is under pressure to get everything done in time. (First stop with a full Boatyard setup is Cape Town.)

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