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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just got the press release from Simeon's personal team.

 

The meeting with skipper of team AkzoNobel Simeon Tienpont and Communications, Public Affairs & Legal Affairs of AkzoNobel, which was cancelled by AkzoNobel a few times and was late, did not contribute to any solution. The deadlock Tienpont was forced in yesterday following AkzoNobel's one-sided termination of the contract was not resolved; the meeting did not contribute to any solution, so there was no other choice than to go public after AkzoNobel's suggestive statement about our skipper Simeon Tienpont. 

During the prologue leg of the Volvo Ocean Race (which left Lisbon on October 8th), so at a time AkzoNobel knew that Tienpont as a skipper was unreachable, AkzoNobel terminated their contract with Simeon Tienpont and his entire team. The team finished third in the prologue.

FIRST ENTRY
AkzoNobel announced their sponsorship in the 2017-18 race on July 5th, 2016 in Scheveningen, the Netherlands, and were the first team to enter the 2017-2018 Volvo Ocean Race. The Volvo Ocean Race is the longest and toughest sailing race in the world. Tienpont has participated twice in the race (2005-06 and 2016) and is a two time America’s Cup winner.

DISSAPOINTED
AkzoNobel has refused to reverse its decision and it looks they are unwilling to continue the Volvo Ocean Race campaign with Tienpont as their skipper. Tienpont: “ Disappointing, especially because me and my team were successfully racing the prologue from Lisbon to Alicante”.
Also, only a few weeks ago, on September 25th, 2017 the new CEO of AkzoNobel confirmed Tienpont his personal and AkzoNobel’s support for the campaign. The CEO urged Simeon to contact him personally if any problem should arise. Sadly up to time, AkzoNobel’s CEO has not been available for Tienpont upon the termination. No explanation has been givens as to why AkzoNobel acted in this manner. Tienpont: "They talk about a contract break, which is absolutely unfounded and is very damaging to my reputation, especially in view of the timing, just before the start of the race. I can only guess that it is about a small budget overrun on a safety issue, but we have always been 100% transparent to AkzoNobel about our financial affairs and all our expenses have been made with their approval. It is them, not me, who is in clear breach of the contract.".

WINNING APPROACH
Tienpont: “It has always been my aim to run a safe, sustainable and winning campaign for AkzoNobel and I still want to do so. My other sponsors and partners supporting the team, my sailing and shore crew employed, where very confident in our approach to represent AkzoNobel in the very best way possible. It came as a huge and unpleasant surprise when AkzoNobel terminated the contract during the prologue at the time the team was at sea. Tienpont and his team will now regroup and try to develop options to continue with this winning campaign”.

So, big name sponsor is unhappy, for some reason, with current skipper.  They decide that said skipper broke some rule of a contract, a fine excuse to remove said skipper, and skipper is fired.

What is seriously the issue here?  They wanted him gone, they found a way, he's gone.  Hell, this happens all the time in sport business or just business.  Perhaps Tienpoint pissed some exec off, told off the CEO in private, pushed back too hard, wanted too much control.  Whatever the reason, AKN pulls the purse strings so at the end of the day, they get to hire and fire the head guy.  Clearly they, Akzonobel, are staying in the race.  Clearly they will find or have found another skipper and will retain the crew.  Come Leg 1 we'll see seven boats on the line, one without the capable skills of one Mr Tienpoint.  Sucks being fired.

Bigger question, how does this effect the team?  Can the get enough time in with a new skipper to stay competitive?  

People come and go in business and at the end of the day, they may be sailing around the world, but business still runs the show.  I won't waste time speculating as to why he got fired, because it does not matter.  Tienpoint will tell his tale, the company their's, yet between the two lies a boat and a team primed to race around the world.  They deserve our attention more then Housewives of the VOR which some here are turning this into.

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2 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Never won anything in Maxi's against other maxis

I stand corrected for I did look up his past and now understand that he has been able to sell himself as "larger than life" when it would seem he more fits the mold of blow hard ego with a good, no damn good marketing department.  Now that I've looked back, the current performance of this boat makes more sense.  I would be surprised if they really improve much.  At some point TtT may surpass Scallywag for the simple reason that they don't let ego interfere with improvement.

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24 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

.  They deserve our attention more then Housewives of the VOR which some here are turning this into.

This may be all the VOR has left.

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Just now, southerncross said:

This may be all the VOR has left.

I'm thinking that may be all this thread on SA may have left.

There was a great race today.  tight start with what looked like major fuckups, yet the two worst starts finished 1st and 3rd.  Multiple position changes and tight mark roundings up and down kept it exciting.

Did any of the vaunted sailors on this forum talk about Scally's eased genoa and did it help or hurt?    Sail trim did matter, right or left side mattered it seemed, and anyone curious how much keel was used to help upwind?  Did any of these "expert" sailors comment on decisions to tack, stay on the right, Did AKN give room because Scally's skipper is an Ahole or it was a legitimate respect of a rule (I might have pressed myself).

Nope, folks got their panties wadded up, because a skipper got fired for some reason we will never know.  Fairly soon the big show starts and I honestly, at this point, given my more limited time to follow, don't give a shit about who's sleeping with whom, why so and so is off the or on the boat, because truly, the boats are leaving the harbor.  Now they race and what I am curious about, what I'm watching is how they race, the decisions they make on the water, who improves, who does not.  The drama is now on the water.

The VOR has a lot going for it if you care about the sailors, the effort, the race.  Turns out...I do.

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42 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

So, big name sponsor is unhappy, for some reason, with current skipper.  They decide that said skipper broke some rule of a contract, a fine excuse to remove said skipper, and skipper is fired.

What is seriously the issue here? 

Try it is Tienpont's Team who are contracted you fool. You really need to try listening/reading before opening your gob.

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28 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Nope, folks got their panties wadded up, because a skipper got fired for some reason we will never know.

Just a skipper got fired?

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7 hours ago, DtM said:

Which is why Clean's suggestion that Bouwe wanted him as his OBR is rubbish.

Bouwe might have expressed that before the new OBR setup was decided. Or it could be that even with the new setup a team could express a preference that would be honored. Or even without that Bouwe still could have told Clean he wanted him as OBR if he was available.

That Clean would publicly claim Bouwe had told him that when it was actually a lie seems pretty unlikely to me.

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1 hour ago, bucc5062 said:

I'm thinking that may be all this thread on SA may have left.

There was a great race today.  tight start with what looked like major fuckups, yet the two worst starts finished 1st and 3rd.

I thought MAPFRE's start was brilliant. They won the race with 2 minutes to go when they set up over at the pin end all by themselves with their M0 rolled up, just chilling. Then they got up to speed, saw they had room to cross Brunel, and went for it.

In light winds on these tight windward-leeward courses with the boats so under-crewed, it was just who could get a clean line with minimal maneuvers and no fuckups in the strongest wind. And I realize that it's nothing like the actual race. But at least so far MAPFRE has been kicking everyone's ass consistently.* Maybe things will change when their local knowledge is no longer a factor. But for now they sure look good.

*Though DF did beat them by 56 seconds in the Fastnet.

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15 minutes ago, jbc said:

In light winds on these tight windward-leeward courses with the boats so under-crewed, it was just who could get a clean line with minimal maneuvers and no fuckups in the strongest wind.

Which is maybe the genisus to Turner's support of the next edition having cats for the In-Ports as more of a spectacle. That said the next AC in foiling monos around the same size as these, albeit in stronger Auckland breezes and a bit of sea, may well be more interesting than many think. 

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2 hours ago, jbc said:

Bouwe might have expressed that before the new OBR setup was decided. Or it could be that even with the new setup a team could express a preference that would be honored. Or even without that Bouwe still could have told Clean he wanted him as OBR if he was available.

That Clean would publicly claim Bouwe had told him that when it was actually a lie seems pretty unlikely to me.

 

                    ...ever heard of bartalk?,,,, Clean's 'full of it'.   :)

 

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The whole Akzo debacle is getting more and more confusing, and for those who don't do the front page, they have joined us in the shit stirring with the link to Clubracer and Google translate:   https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.clubracer.be%2F2017%2F10%2F14%2Fsimeon-tienpont-boord-schandaal-bij-team-akzonobel&edit-text=

The translation is quite acceptable actually, but what people may not realise is that the "updates" are a continuing thing, and I am sure this Sunday there will be a few more. And they are quite revealing, so here are just the updates with some translation corrections.  And kudos to Eddy Lekens of Clubracer for his efforts !

UPDATE 14/10/2017 at 16:01:
The English sailor Jules Salter (four-time participant) was on the helm of Team AkzoNobel during the In-Port race.
UPDATE 14/10/2017 at 16:23:
Clearly, AkzoNobel has put themselfes in a tricky position. This is due to the fact that the newly appointed skipper must have obtained the appropriate certificates and training required by the Volvo Ocean Race.
Bouwe Bekking (NED Team Brunel) after the In-Port race: "To get it, you're usually busy for a couple of weeks."
Bouwe further says: "Simeon Tienpont is a very good sailor, but never led a team. That's something different. He chose great sailors, but also men who could work with their elbows. It is a bizarre situation just before the start. A bad thing for Dutch sailing. ''
UPDATE 14/10/2017 at 16:31:
Annemieke Bes (NED & ex AkzoNobel): "It's a drama. Simeon and I recently did not agree, but I certainly do not wish this on him."
 "It is probably about money. Of course, it's not good for Dutch sailing. And loyalty within that team? No comment."
Gerd-Jan Poortman (NED): "A pity, a great pity. Simeon was, with Bouwe, our poster boy. This dismissal is painful. Bad for the race and bad for the image of the sport in our country. Sponsors will now be two think about coming in. "
UPDATE 14/10/2017 at 18:06:
From a good source, we learn that the sponsorship of AkzoNobel has been put in a company founded by Simeon Tienpont. That's why Simeon could not be fired. His BV also employed all crew members. AkzoNobel would like to take over all contracts.
Author:
Eddy Lekens, Ice for the sail friends, is the founder of ClubRacer and as Digital Manager advicescompanies with their Omnichannel Ecommerce Strategy and Marketing Automation. Since 1979 he has been a racing sailor with an unprecedented sailing palmares: Winnaar Verbondsbeemem, 2x Dutch champion, 2x winner Antwerp Race (IRC and Sportboats) and with the ClubRacer sailing team chosen as the best offshore sailor in the Netherlands.

 

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1 hour ago, couchsurfer said:

 

                    ...ever heard of bartalk?,,,, Clean's 'full of it'.   :)

 

Mr. Clean is together with clubracer.be the only one who is able to give the news what is going to happen with Team Akzo Nobel. 
https://www.clubracer.be/2017/10/14/simeon-tienpont-boord-schandaal-bij-team-akzonobel
Fiji Flaki translated their site.
There were rumours on Nu.nl team Akzo Nobel will not start without their captain but the message was withdrawn 5 minutes ago.
https://www.nu.nl/sport-overig/4964033/team-akzonobel-weert-verbaasde-schipper-tienpont-bij-volvo-ocean-race.html
Translated:

AkzoNobel team turns out 'surprised' skipper Tienpont at Volvo Ocean Race   
Simeon Tienpont is unpleasantly surprised by the decision of Team AkzoNobel to withdraw him on the eve of the Volvo Ocean Race. The skipper would have committed breach of contract according to the Dutch sailing team. "I am very surprised at the decision that I had to get through the media," the 35-year-old Tienpont in his first response complains about the NOS. On Friday evening, Team AkzoNobel announced that it had sent away Tienpont without giving details about the case. The skipper hopes to bring other thoughts to AkzoNobel before the start of the prestigious race on Saturday afternoon, but it is not yet known whether the Dutch chemical company has gone into it.

Because the starting shot for the first leg on Saturday afternoon is already given in Alicante, it is only question whether Team AkzoNobel is still in a position to get a new skipper for the Volvo Ocean Race. Bekking The debuting team had already recorded Tienpont last year and allowed him to build his crew. "I can not wait to get started and try to win the race," said the skipper at the time of the presentation. Tienpont participated twice in the eight-month port race: in 2005/2006 on behalf of ABN Amro and two years ago he performed two stages in the team of Vestas Wind. In addition to Tienpont, who won the prestigious America's Cup twice with Oracle, another Dutch skipper joins the Volvo Ocean Race: Bouwe Bekking on behalf of Team Brunel. In the first stage, the seven yachts sail from Spain to Alicante to Portugal. At the end of June, the Volvo Ocean Race finishes in Scheveningen. By: NU.nl

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21 minutes ago, Fiji Flaky said:

From a good source, we learn that the sponsorship of AkzoNobel has been put in a company founded by Simeon Tienpont. That's why Simeon could not be fired. His BV also employed all crew members. AkzoNobel would like to take over all contracts.

 

That explains it. Let Thierry Vanlacker (CEO AKZO - Nobel) take the wheel.
Akzo.jpg
He will be as qualified in the job as he's doing now as CEO.
Taking all financial contracts under own management.
If I was Simeon I would let him do so.
But there is no communication between Simeon and public affairs Akzo Nobel.

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Spanish press talks about crew internal issues for AZ decision... but more importantly they pledge to use Chuny as the replacement skipper. It is true that he was a VOR skipper (with Delta Lloyd in 2008-9), a winner with Abu last time, etc. etc. etc.  It would make sense as he knows the team, but not sure he is keen on returning. We'll see. 

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According to this article Tienpont is now accusing AkzoNobel of breach of contract. 

https://sportnieuws.nl/overig/zeilen/schipper-tienpont-slaat-terug-akzonobel-pleegt-zelf-contractbreuk/

 

In short: He thinks that AkzoNobel wants to cut him from the team because he spent too much money but says he has been transparent every step of the way. 

Also that this whole business is very damaging for his reputation. 

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Vow. With a week to the start of leg 1, the lawyers are going to be extremely busy this week to try to reach a settlement between the parties. If not, this boat might end up staying put next Sunday. 

There must be a lot of water under the bridge in order to force AZ to this reckless (?) last minute move. 

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But can Simeon's company afford to pay for crew without reimbursement from AZ? Most unlikely.  So they will likely jump across to AZ Corporate.  they have to look after themselves.  Calling Nico even if it has to be starting with Leg 2.

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8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Why???? Volvo own all the boats. This is a RentaRacer show.

It was interesting because others have have a company listed.

TTT: Owner(s)/Team VES Commercial Services Spain S.A
Mapfre: Owner(s)/Team TEAM CAMPOS, SLU
Brunel: Owner(s)/Team Sailing Holland B.V.

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7 minutes ago, DtM said:


But can Simeon's company afford to pay for crew without reimbursement from AZ? Most unlikely.  So they will likely jump across to AZ Corporate.  they have to look after themselves.  Calling Nico even if it has to be starting with Leg 2.

 

We'll find out when this drama reaches the next act.
After non payment issues in past editions VOR said that they put in measures to guarantee crew payment. (Say the last Russian boat.) VOR talked quite a bit about this during the last edition. As I understood sponsors had put enough money to keep the show going for the full edition up front. 

Reading the various updates it looks like Simeons company was the middle man between parties. I wonder who holds the race license.

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I am only a sea lawyer and a shit stirrer, but would it be possible for Simeon to "arrest" (put a lien on) the boat ?

Whatever happens, I have a feeling it is gone cost Akzo dearly.

 

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Exactly. That's what I meant with reckless. Simeon's company must be the one with the race license (i.e. the commercial contract with VOR). AZ needs to retake that contract,  with Simeon holding all cards right now. It could end up being quite costly for them. 

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42 minutes ago, DtM said:


But can Simeon's company afford to pay for crew without reimbursement from AZ? Most unlikely.  So they will likely jump across to AZ Corporate.  they have to look after themselves....

DtM not so easy for them to jump at a moment's notice or before the next pay cheque is due when they are already contracted to Tienpont. The payment timing of salaries and the Paintballers pulling the pin last week may be interesting.

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

For extra fun it looks from the measurement certs:
Owner(s)/Team          VOR, team AkzoNobel BV

 

9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Why???? Volvo own all the boats. This is a RentaRacer show

 

1 hour ago, Chasm said:

It was interesting because others have have a company listed.

TTT: Owner(s)/Team VES Commercial Services Spain S.A
Mapfre: Owner(s)/Team TEAM CAMPOS, SLU
Brunel: Owner(s)/Team Sailing Holland B.V.

Chasm you may well have stumbled upon something interesting then. Any dates on those certificates?

For instance does it indicate that at time of measurement, bearing in mind this was a new boat #8, the deal with Tienpont/AkzoNobel had not been consumated, and for some reason has not been updated to reflect that? Why hasn't that occured?

Question is who bears the ownership responsibility attached to measurement. Are AkzoNobel sitting there just funding the Tienpont entity so it is the Tienpont entity (being reimbursed), or is everything attached to this thing in AkzoNobel's name not Tienpont's entity and so AkzoNobel enjoy and incur all the rights, liabilities and obligations accordingly?

How this things pans out hinges on this aspect of AkzoNobel being either just a banker, or the team owner?

Alternatively is the measurement certificate up to date, and this team like none of the others is actually a Clayton's Volvo team where Tienpont/AkzoNobel are jointly providing most but not all of the money and the grunt?

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All of them are "Date of certification 01/10/2017" and posted on the noticeboard 10/10/2017

Hull # - Team - Owner/Team as listed on cert
701 - Dongfeng - Dongfeng Race Team / OC VOR Ltd
702 - ex SCA, no certificate posted
703 - Brunel - Sailing Holland B.V.
704 - Vestas - Vestas 11th Hour Racing
705 - Scallywag - Sun Hung Kai Scallywag
706 - TTT -  VES Commercial Services Spain S.A
707 - MAPFRE - TEAM CAMPOS, SLU
708 - AkzoNobel -  VOR, team AkzoNobel BV

Now if that actually means something... Hard to say, could be just copy pasta from old certs.
Looking a bit into team AkzoNobel BV. Registered in March, they have the same registration address as AKZO Nobel Chemicals BV. 

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44 minutes ago, Elisa said:

– Simeon Tienpont’s management company STEAM breached its contract to manage the team AkzoNobel entry in the Volvo Ocean race 2017-18
– The breach was serious enough for AkzoNobel to terminate the contract with immediate effect and AkzoNobel then took over the full management of the team
– Simeon was offered the option to continue as skipper but opted not to continue and has left the team

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1 hour ago, Elisa said:

That seems to answer it. AkzoNobel own the team lock stock and barrel, Tienpont only managed it. All over red rover and just a matter of finding a skip with his paperwork up to date. 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, ghosty2 said:

Who was actually helming each boat during the In-Port?

 

Salter as official 2IC. You would have to think Jackson will get the gig as a big leap for an outsider at such a late stage.

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

That seems to answer it. AkzoNobel own the team lock stock and barrel, Tienpont only managed it. All over red rover and just a matter of finding a skip with his paperwork up to date. 

 

 

So contract breach. Been using the wrong chemicals? 

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15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Does anyone recall talk of Nicho possibly joining AZ last year?? 

 

Not a sailing position but onshore manager I think.

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If this quote from Bouwe is correct he says  "Simeon Tienpont is a very good sailor, but never led a team. That's something different. He chose great sailors, but also men who could work with their elbows. It is a bizarre situation just before the start. A bad thing for Dutch sailing. ''

That seems to be Bouwe speak for ....all was good on sailing/boat personel side but maybe the front office side of admin, budgeting, cost control etc was not so good. Rumour is AZ last year wanted Tienpont to step back from that side and concentrate on sailing.only. If so then he disagreed and this train wreck has been in the making ever since.

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I worked on a project for Akzo. It was 3.5 times over budget and years late. I think the new ceo might be particularly sensitive to cost overruns

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I'd also take Tienpont statements and claims with a grain of salt. He's not exactly a straight shooter. Prior exp with pushing someone under the bus and walking away. 

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16 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I'd also take Tienpont statements and claims with a grain of salt. He's not exactly a straight shooter. Prior exp with pushing someone under the bus and walking away. 

Want to expand on that statement?

 

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Still intriguiges me that some at AkZo Co seem to have thought that this enormous publicity clusterf***k, including weakening of team's position etc, made it worthwhile to let Tienpont go and still less damaging then keeping him on a leach as manager. I guess the truth will come out eventually.

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19 hours ago, bucc5062 said:


People come and go in business and at the end of the day, they may be sailing around the world, but business still runs the show.  I won't waste time speculating as to why he got fired, because it does not matter.  Tienpoint will tell his tale, the company their's, yet between the two lies a boat and a team primed to race around the world.  They deserve our attention more then Housewives of the VOR which some here are turning this into.

I thought it was just established that it was better for you to keep your yap shut?

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31 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I'd also take Tienpont statements and claims with a grain of salt. He's not exactly a straight shooter. Prior exp with pushing someone under the bus and walking away. 

And yet dozens of people who have sailed with Simeon say he is a wonderful man, kind and fair. 

If you have some stuff from San Fran that actually can prove otherwise and isn't just more he said she said, have at it.

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Can anyone confirm whether or not Geovoile is going to be the tracker for the race itself, and if it isn't, which tracker will be used?  It's the only way I'm going to be able to follow this race when most starts and in-ports are going to be in the middle of the night on the west coast of NA!

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And if you find anything that shows that Simeon threw anyone else under the bus, please reveal it to the world.

 

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10 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I thought it was just established that it was better for you to keep your yap shut?

So, you are telling  a member of your forum they cannot post on your forum?  That a member on your forum cannot voice an opinion?  Given some of the shit posted on this site, some from you that is amazing.  However, you want to shut me up, cancel my account, because that would show the truly ape like mentality you create here on this site.

There are smart people here.  I learn engaging in some, so with all due respect Mr. Clean...stuff it.

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10 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

And yet dozens of people who have sailed with Simeon say he is a wonderful man, kind and fair. 

If you have some stuff from San Fran that actually can prove otherwise and isn't just more he said she said, have at it.

Clean lot of damming stuff tendered in Mitchell's court Case. However Tienpont didn't throw anyone under a bus, the throwee was higher up the food chain ..he just went doggo.

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2 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

So, you are telling  a member of your forum they cannot post on your forum? 

where did you see that?  Goddamn you are fucking awful at reading. what language is your first one?

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Just spoke to Nicho.  He is out, at least for now.  Sailing Proteus in the Middle Sea Race - that is why he is on a plane for europe.  Malta.

 

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17 minutes ago, Elisa said:

Still intriguiges me that some at AkZo Co seem to have thought that this enormous publicity clusterf***k, including weakening of team's position etc, made it worthwhile to let Tienpont go and still less damaging then keeping him on a leach as manager. I guess the truth will come out eventually.

This.

There were to be 8 teams.  Now 7 and now a seriously disadvantaged team.  Takes lots of water time to put a team together.  Not just the physical but the comradery as well.  Not saying they can’t pull it together or won’t find a capable replacement.  Sounds like the crew are pretty pissed about the whole thing though. Not the best way to start a race.

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5 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

where did you see that?  Goddamn you are fucking awful at reading. what language is your first one?

"I thought it was just established that it was better for you to keep your yap shut?"

My reading comprehension is fine, how is your composition.  No one established such a point, unless you refer to that twit Jacko.  There are some I converse with on a positive note.  How then should I take your statement, the guy who pretty much runs this site.  Explain "keep your yap shut".  For the record, english.

Edited by bucc5062
corrected quote

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5 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

"I thought it was just established that it was better for you to keep your yap shut?"

My reading comprehension is fine, 

'established that it was better for you to keep your yap shut" vs. "you are not allowed to post on this forum'

BIt of a leap there, reading comprehension master.

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Whatever, I'm super fucking hungover and I have a few hours left to finish our 2016 taxes.  Apologies for being a twat.

 

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1 minute ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Time to stop the bickering to bucc.

He is such a nice guy.

What amazes me is the ugliness of some people.  You don;t like what someone says, ignore them.  Who knows they might go away.  Correct them so they can learn.  Attempt to understand the context of level they present their view.  Some here lead with anger and I am starting to gauge the root of some of that anger.  Even sadder, with my new life change i'm not on here as much, I come to gain insight, but as I pointed out, sailors spent more time on race day speculating on something most no nothing about than on the racing itself.  Even Clean tells me to shut my yap when all I comment on is that the whole AKN thing will sort itself out and we will only be recipients of the news.  Is there not something better to comment on?

For some, seems not.

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Surely Nico has most, if not all of the necessary paperwork/qualifications.. If not then time between now and Middle Sea and then after Middle Sea and before Lisbon start.  And in any event I suspect (without reading them again) that the SI's allow the VOR some latitude.

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Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

Whatever, I'm super fucking hungover and I have a few hours left to finish our 2016 taxes.  Apologies for being a twat.

 

I'll accept that  with this caveat, to tell someone to "shut their yap", from you, from anyone implies two things, either that person cannot speak again, or they can only speak when allowed.  I chose the former, because it came from you, the guy who runs this thing.  I reject the latter if it came from anyone else for they do not control me.  Again, I am an educated person and have the ability to...um...ignore...those that I find bring little substance other than angst and negativity to the table to start.

However, having been in a position of both hungover and texting and writing while drunk, both cases I find it better to re-read before hitting the button.  Hair of the dog may help your condition.

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14 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

No one established such a point, unless you refer to that twit Jacko.

Mr Twit to you.

PS. I'm really looking forward to your tack by tack commentary for the next 40,000 mile as you obviously think everyone here is deaf, dumb and blind and your typing in braille. 

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The AzoNobel saga is pertinent to how the race has been unfolding this whole year and how management in one form or another seems to be fucking the whole thing up.

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16 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

First of all it's not "My Leg Thread", secondly how about you stopping to attack bucc.

You are really a disgrace to this Community with your personal attacks to him.

Well your about the only one posting on it so own it son. And for the record the Bucmeister initiated it, copped a backhander then sent me a most unflattering PM so fuck him.

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16 hours ago, couchsurfer said:

 

                    ...ever heard of bartalk?,,,, Clean's 'full of it'.   :)

 

It's on tape, moron.

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15 minutes ago, southerncross said:

The AzoNobel saga is pertinent to how the race has been unfolding this whole year and how management in one form or another seems to be fucking the whole thing up.

I'm curious as to why you feel that way.  To me there are two paths going one.  One is the racing, the race teams, how they prepare, how they race.  The other is race management, mainly VOR management, and while it is interesting to see the process, little influence can be drawn from the rabble.  We speculate, we conjecture, but we don't get to decide, so while it is interesting to follow the saga as it unfolds, I'd rather the race be about...i dunno...the sailors and how they race.  Still, I am curious as to your thoughts.

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Very few people care about the race at this point bucc, it was the same last time.  Because there is no design element and because the media staffers are mostly doing a shit job of telling the stories, all we have is the drama that is out and about.  Who's shagging who, who's getting last minute binned, etc.

After a leg or two, there will be some racing to talk about, but for the majority, not really until then. Certainly not that shitty practice race (which is really all the IPR is now) in 8 knots of ALC muck.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Well your about the only one posting on it so own it son. And for the record the Bucmeister initiated it, copped a backhander then sent me a most unflattering PM so fuck him.

Do we really want to do a count of your posts compared to many others?  No one owns this thread, your rather outlandish statement not withstanding.

I initiated what?  I'm curious.  You are given to some rather...less than kind statements to some folks here so between you and me, I wonder who's insulted whom more.

Still in all, I am about the race, the teams, the friendly smack between supporters, those with lots of knowledge and those without.  My belief is to allow folks to give voice to what they believe, before they attack another.  If you found what IO send PM unflattering, understand, it was only a reflection of how I perceived you in this thread.

I would rather not dive into personal drama, but talk about the VOR.

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If there was more 'talk about the VOR' to have, there wouldn't be talk about personal drama.  Nature abhors a vacuum

 

2 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Do we really want to do a count of your posts compared to many others?  No one owns this thread, your rather outlandish statement not withstanding.

I initiated what?  I'm curious.  You are given to some rather...less than kind statements to some folks here so between you and me, I wonder who's insulted whom more.

Still in all, I am about the race, the teams, the friendly smack between supporters, those with lots of knowledge and those without.  My belief is to allow folks to give voice to what they believe, before they attack another.  If you found what IO send PM unflattering, understand, it was only a reflection of how I perceived you in this thread.

I would rather not dive into personal drama, but talk about the VOR.

 

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3 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Very few people care about the race at this point bucc, it was the same last time.  Because there is no design element and because the media staffers are mostly doing a shit job of telling the stories, all we have is the drama that is out and about.  Who's shagging who, who's getting last minute binned, etc.

After a leg or two, there will be some racing to talk about, but for the majority, not really until then. Certainly not that shitty practice race (which is really all the IPR is now) in 8 knots of ALC muck.

 

 

Then how about stop shitting on the few that do.  Is it not possible that there are sailors here that like the format, like the racing, and like to talk about it?  I don't want to get into it...but I do want to be able to converse or chat with those that do care without being insulted, denigrated or told to shut my yap.  As Jackie discovered I am not above giving a piece of mind when he steps over a line, but at the least... I did so in a PM.  So, about the race, yes, less than a week, and i am excited for the start, but concede that leg 1 will not be a full test of the teams.  Leg 2 will tell the tale.

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57 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Very few people care about the race at this point bucc, it was the same last time.  Because there is no design element and because the media staffers are mostly doing a shit job of telling the stories, all we have is the drama that is out and about.  Who's shagging who, who's getting last minute binned, etc.

Mixed crews this time. Realizing they're all gonna have a lot of responsibilities and basically zero privacy, but still, biology finds a way... My money's on TTToP to win that particular race-within-a-race. Just seems like mathematically they'd have the best chance.

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I thought it was just established that it was better for you to keep your yap shut?

Isn't that called censorship Clean?

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I think Clean would describe it as a benevolent dictatorship.

Off topic, SS are you coming down for S2H?

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

Isn't that called censorship Clean?

FFS, you don't know the difference ?  You, who writes all those quasi intellectual know all pieces (o.s.) ?

However, deleting posts may be censorship, or it could be just hypocrasy !  How do I know...  LOL

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6 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

First of all it's not "My Leg Thread",

I know you didn't start it and bucc didn't start it either, DtM started it. I think separate leg forums are a good idea because the main forum is already 44 pages long.  Either that or rename the current main forum to something like Volvo Ocean Race 2017-2018 Pre Race Start or some title that indicates that it is general discussion pre start, and then start a new main thread.

Meanwhile, I'd still like an answer to my earlier question as to whether or not Geovoile is going to be the tracker for the Race.

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4 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Yes, that's a good idea you proposing.

Geo will be the Tracker methinks Retired Sailor.

It's not my idea, DtM proposed separate Leg forums, possibly to keep the postings on track.

Thanks for the tracker info. Now that it seems VOR is going to upload to YouTube after all (thanks to you again for that info on the Leg 1 forum for the Alicante in-port) maybe I'll get to see more than I was expecting to when events happen in the middle of the night in West Coast NA. 

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7 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

so between you and me, I wonder who's insulted whom more

Oh goodie I love a competition Bucc. 

I think I beat you hands down on that one. I have definitely bitch slapped more whoms than you, but then you have probably insulted and annoyed more whoses than I.

Mmmm so it will probably have to go to the jury where those pesky pricks will find out I have enjoyed outside assistance and DSQ me. I have Tourette's you see and unfortunately it is not the variety where I blurt out uncontrolled profanities like; "darling I just love the way you have done your hair", or "wow that dress looks absolutely fantastic on you", or "let's take your mother for a sail across the Indian Ocean". 

However I am on the cusp of inventing a drug that can be slipped unnoticed into beer and will induce this effect on men so shortly I will be absolutely rolling in it. I will then be hiring Warren Buffet to clean out the holding tank while Gatzie is on the shitter, probably start my own RTW box rule race crewed by super models and only skippered by posters who have contributed beyond the call of duty to this thread. 

You and Alinguist are in the box seat mate so chin up, all that drivel hasn't gone to waste. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Fiji Flaky said:

FFS, you don't know the difference ?  You, who writes all those quasi intellectual know all pieces (o.s.) ?

However, deleting posts may be censorship, or it could be just hypocrasy !  How do I know...  LOL

Why thank you for the compliment Flaky. I prefer to call them properly researched informed comments because they are researched and informed to the best of my ability. Know it all? Unlikely! Are you are confusing me with another follicaly challenged writer perhaps ;-)

SS

 

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On 28-9-2017 at 5:30 PM, schakel488 said:

I guess this training as reported 28th september was a bit too expensive for the Akzo Nobel Management.
Safety first. Is there any hope this ridiculous accusations will be  being turned back?
 

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Would potential skippers really be that enthusiastic about getting the skipper job knowing how much drama is in the team right now? 

I don't think they will be standing in line unless they were hugely compensated. 

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Many people appear to be trying to fan the flames of the departure of Simeon Tienpont from Team Azkonobel.

From the recent statement from the team it is clear that it was not Simeon who was terminated for breach of contract but it was Simeon Tienpont’s Management Company "STEAM" that allegedly breached the management contract with Azkonobel with the team management being taken over directly by the sponsor themselves.

As the statement from the team states that it was offered to Simeon to remain in the role as skipper, an offer that he declined.

There appears to be a natural desire to find out exactly what went, or was done, wrong to elicit this action by the sponsor but sorry sports fans, commercial sports sponsorship is commercial first and sports second and it is not unusual for large corporations to not spell out reasons when they have no commercial or legal reason to do so – that’s how the world works.

Sure, just like everyone else who has a nosey bone in their body, I would love to hear what (allegedly) went wrong, especially this close to the start of the race but we need to remember – as I have heard at every sports sponsorship seminar I have ever attended ‘The Sponsor is King’ – no sponsor, no teams; no team, no jobs for the team members. And most importantly of all No Teams – No Race!

There are still the crew and all the shore team to consider so it would be wise, let alone show some sympathy, not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just think for a moment how these guys and gals must be feeling having lost their team leader this close to the start especially as most of them (if not all) were recruited by him in the first place– 7 days to go and they are not sure who will skipper the boat carrying their hopes and ambitions.

It’s not really a time for people (including journalists) to try and gain mileage by firing a few cheap shots.

And I have said all the above as someone rooting for a different team (regular readers know that) but sports should be about more than winning. There is a thin line sometimes between sportsmanship and gamesmanship.

I remember the Mel Gibson/Helen Hunt movie ‘What Every Woman Wants’, if I remember correctly the catchphrase that they thought up was “No Games, just sports!” – Think on!

Shanghai Sailor

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Hang fire the truth is out...it's the fuckin Chinese...just ask Dorothy.

I have just come back from the hair salon where we ladies got together and vowed we would crack this case of Teapot getting the boot. Every bit of evidence and intelligence that could be gleaned was laid on the table and put under the microscope. We even interrogated Madge the salon owner who knows who's shagging who in the neighbourhood even before their own underware has hit the deck. Unfortunately she knew fuck all about this drama.

Anyway Mavis was put in charge to choreograph the investigation as her husband is a proctologist and knows a thing or two about people pulling stuff out of their arse. The $2m cost overun written up on the front page was quickly discarded. Afterall that is probably around 10% of budget and a pretty reasonable contingency we thought. That was based on aligning with the sort of dollar overun incurred by our respective husband's when their credit card bills come in after their week away at some regatta. We girls are afterall pretty atune to the going rate more than they are of going rate for hookers and blow in most places around the world.

Anyway the answer came from the most unexpected source, old and it would seem very wise Dorothy. Now she is usually quiet as a church mouse, doesn't say boo and goes red in the face when the conversation turns to having either a 3 or 4 battery model in the bedroom appliance cupboard. So Dorothy just says "it's the Chinese" and continues knitting a pullover for her grand daughter. "What do you mean Chinese you silly old cow" said Gretal. Yeah I know, I think she caught Tourette's off me. 

So Dorothy says "those cars the Chinese drive, you know the Volvos that go half the speed limit that you get stuck behind in traffic". At this point we ready to write her as having Vodka for breakfast but she then catches our attention and floors us with a theory that Einstein would crawl over a mile of broken bottles to take credit for. She also drives a souped up F100 truck with a crate not a stock motor, so gets a bit testy about driving etiquette and slow pokes.

According to Dorothy it is a simple case of people and things going slow and then consequences of that.

Akzo Nobel were first cab off the rank, had money to burn and agreed a RentaBoat dollar amount in advance of everyone else and tossed Teapot a pretty big chequebook, probably the biggest going. 

Unfortunately as things got desperate in the entry department Volvo's RentaBoat asking price crashed and the latecomers got in on the deal at the backend and at a fraction of the price paid by the painting outfit. Volvo even threw in extra stopovers to encourage these slow coaches to sign up and in turn slowing the race down. 

The old stick is pretty smart to work this all out and her reasoning hard to refute. She simply said this difference in carrying cost was no different to when Gladys had her kitchen done up, Murial wanted hers done too, but waited a while and eventully did the same thing to her kitchen but at a fraction of the cost. Then after some time Gladys's husband who isn't too bright and away alot, upon hearing how little Murial had their kitchen done for, got the shits and kicked poor Gladys out on the street.

Anyway back to who is going to skipper this thing. I'm going back for a Brazillian tomorrow so will let you know what we girls at the parlour come up with.

  

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1 hour ago, schakel488 said:

I guess this training as reported 28th september was a bit too expensive for the Akzo Nobel Management.
Safety first. Is there any hope this ridiculous accusations will be  being turned back?
 

Do you know something you want to tell us?

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It was the same safety course as everyone had to go on and would have been known from the very first.  No surprise in having to do it and the cost.

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12 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Do you know something you wan't to tell us?

I understood after all the hassle Simeon has turned his back towards further negotiations.
One advice to Simeon: You can make everything a lot easier if you are willing to get back to the negotiating table.
Akzo is used to political negotiations with good outcome.

Remember the hostages taken in Ireland on October 3, 1975?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiede_Herrema

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