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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

classic Porches

Porsche, yes but of the bondo/primer type.  We did have a Chevy Apache though.

Going after the boat is just mean.  Sorry to hear it.

  

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20 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Porsche, yes but of the bondo/primer type.

Wow. Closest I got to a classic like that was a bondo/no primer Kombi. I think we must be brothers. Had shit brakes and ended up in my girlfriend's parents swimming pool. They were very cool about that other than the six people in it being in danger of drowning including their daughter and a neice. I was still invited around for Sunday dinner though..good sign of a lucky life unfolding I thought at the time.

 

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7 hours ago, garpgarp said:

for some reason adblockers don't like the way the VOR page is set up,
if you want the benefits of an ad-blocker you just have to put up with the occasional inconvenience

on firefox, with uBlock Origin, the VOR tracker map is blocked, whichever version of the map you are logged into.

minimal map only : http://www.volvooceanrace.com/static/tracker/leg1/en_babylon.html
map + standings only : https://www.volvooceanrace.com/static/tracker/leg1/en.html
normal map, standings + links : https://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/dashboard.html

my solution is, when you get the blank map page, to click on the uBlock Origin tool bar button,
and then CTRL-CLICK the on-off button in the menu, which disables the blocker for that page only.
refresh the page + it should load

Sincere thanks for the advice which sure does help in getting some joy without having to interfere with the browsers and OS. The various links posted on SA by you and other guys do work and avoid having to go to the VOR site. Also it seems if anything interesting happens on the VOR some anarchist will post it on SA so SA stays my best interface for following this event.

But I am now in Le Havre and will be much more interested in the TJV for the next few weeks. A variety of super intersting and different boats are here and lots of really top sailors. It's all just a lot more fun than the VOR, which is now by comparison pretty pedestrian. Just hope the website and tracker for the TJV works better than the VOR's attempts. It usually does. Next trip - to Salvador for the finish!

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

not sure, but shit tons of them do.

I believe you, only pulling your leg.  Shit tons? that would be the American version of the English "shit loads"?

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Still no news from the AN front?

This is getting ridiculous. Why can't these people start acting as grown-ups! Smoke the peace pipe, get Salter and Chuny back. And win the fucking race!

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2 hours ago, Face said:

Still no news from the AN front?

Face ..it is frustrating for Paintwagon followers I know. Bindi tells me getting anything out of anybody in the village is like getting sense out of a turnip.

She did tell me the special security detail in the Portugese Guarda Nacional Republicana carry Glock 19's as opposed to their uniform brothers who get Sig Sauer P320's. Upon asking her how she got this piece of riveting information, she said Mr Smiley Security Face with the bulge overseeing the Village ribbon cutting told her. Why did he tell you that I asked. Oh I showed him my Texas Tan she said. Well the Minister and the Mayor wouldn't be too happy to hear you were distracting him I said. 

Not true she said. He wasn't there protecting the suits. He follows Mark Turner around everywhere to catch him in case of another spill.

Anyway Face I know it is not much, but that's all we could pull out of Lisbon yesterday.

IMG_20171101_100532.jpg

IMG_20171101_101158.jpg

IMG_20171101_101554.jpg

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9 hours ago, Face said:

Still no news from the AN front?

This is getting ridiculous. Why can't these people start acting as grown-ups! Smoke the peace pipe, get Salter and Chuny back. And win the fucking race!

Dutch media have nothing new on Tienpont and AkzoNobel. Nada. Absolute radio silence. I presume some hard bargaining is under way. Again.

One major article in a main Dutch newspaper with the header “How AkzoNobel run aground on the VOR” is dated Oct. 27th; https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/10/27/een-race-tegen-de-sponsor-13711698-a1579038.

I will do a translated excerpt below which the detailed article deserves.

It starts with Tienpont and Van de Wall Bake, a major Dutch sports marketing guy, propose a VOR campaign to the then AN CEO Büchner in January 2016. A campaign of EUR 18 million. AN will put in EUR 14 million. Rest via co-sponsors.

It paints how Tienpont and AN have friction on media quotes. AN gave Tienpont a desk in their HQ including parking space and a phone, to the big surprise of Tienpont. AN wants more media exposure by Tienpont. AN wants details on purchases by Steam, which irritates Tienpont. Also, the promised co-sponsors do not materialize at the deadline at the end of 2016. AN ends the contract with Steam. AN is under fire by PPG, and the CEO wants more profit for the shareholders and less internal slack on spending. A new contract is negotiated in the beginning of 2017. The crew including Tienpont is put de facto under ward financially. No longer fixed amounts, Steam needs to provide detailled financial forecasts before money is transferred. AN hires a French consultant to monitor expenses. Steam should only be busy with “sailing related matters”, the scope of this grey area will also lead to friction. AN wants to attract co-sponsors themselves. So an external PR buro is hired, which irritates Tienpont because he feares that it will be paid out of his budget. The increased expenses monitoring does not work. Every expense leads to discussions or arguments. PPG has been kept out of the door by AN, but a new CEO has been appointed. The shareholders are still very angry. In September the relationship explodes. Tienpont wants to buy new rigging, which amounts to tens of thousands of EURO’s. AN questions the proposed purchase and does not like it. Tienpont buys the stuff anyway, without a green light and without budget for it in Steam. As a consequence, there is no money left to pay the salaries of the crew. Steam just puts the salaries in the forecast for the payment in the next period. AN refuses to pay and feels blackmailed and fears budget overruns. Tienpont has a different positive viewpoint, and expects a cheaper period coming up. As morale of the underpaid crew is going down, AN intervenes. “The trust was completly gone” according to a source near AN. AN dissolves the 2nd contract and asks the sailors to join the AN payroll. It looks like an elegant solution with minimal loss of face for the involved parties. But Tienpont is very determined and goes to the Dutch Arbitrage Institute with 2 lawyers and wins the case. Ending the 2nd contract was not justified. AN has to overturn all decisions. How much it will cost AN that 4 sailors stepped off the boat in unknown. Tienpont has to win the race now with a weakened team and a whole in his budget. But it is looking good, Team AN is in 3rd place. *

* note by me; the article was published before the finish of the leg, they finished 4th which is a major accomplishment given the story painted here

The story has been based on interviews with involved people. Both AN and Steam did not want to comment.

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Finally, some coverage of capable sailors in mainstream media. Here is a good article in the New York Times highlighting the opportunities for women in the VOR:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/sports/new-rule-opens-up-jobs-for-female-sailors-at-the-volvo-ocean-race.html

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10 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Simeon should stick with the Crew he has now. These guys & girls are good.

I think they are probably one of tightest teams out there now and in top spirits after Leg 1. Some teams in this show would beg for some of that, because money can't buy it.

However they are 2 crew down or 1 down if the dude they borrowed from Scally stays on. So some new faces will appear.

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Good vibes and team spirit will help a team perform under duress. But if Akzo and the slick Dutchman can't figure out their finances, how will they pay for crew and services?

It is like a game theory prisoners dilemma, ST wants to sail and wants his management company to get a cut, AK wants to cut cost and not tarnish themselves even more. I suspect this will go down to departure day again. 

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3 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I suspect this will go down to departure day again.

Might be right there Miff. If the Paintballers fuck this up after what they have seen can be achieved under duress, I'm never buying Awlgrip again.

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11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Might be right there Miff. If the Paintballers fuck this up after what they have seen can be achieved under duress, I'm never buying Awlgrip again.

Hempel thanks you for your business. 

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8 hours ago, Herman said:

AN dissolves the 2nd contract and asks the sailors to join the AN payroll. It looks like an elegant solution with minimal loss of face for the involved parties.

Herman thank you very much for translating that newspaper article. However there are two corrections and or additions that need to be made. 

Firstly the above omits the explosive email message addressed to Teapot  snd the crew mid-way through the prologue one morning. It stated and I apologise if my translation is not quite precise, as follows.

Message: "We take from Tienpont, who is captain, employer and manager of the operation, all directions and operations from his hands. Everyone else is now to be employed by Akzo. Tienpont may stay as a skipper, nothing else. Respond before 1 o'clock!"

Now that is hardly an elegant solution with minimal loss of face for the involved parties, as reported above in your post. 

It left the crew in a unenviable if not diabolical position and a few hours to consider while at sea mid race. It left Teapot with no option but to tell the Paintballers to stick their email up their arse and see you in Arbitration. This dumbfuck gun to the head Paintballer approach proved to be the own goals of own goals, as determined by Arbitration outcome some 11 days later.

Secondly, you omitted to recognise Teapots appointment of Madge and her partners legal, PR and general gossip firm to look after his arse. It will probably take years for the full story of the girls contribution to come to light. In fact it might be decades if the period the Kennedy Assasination  files were sealed from public view, is taken as a guide.

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

These guys & girls are good.

But not good enough. And not big (strong)  enough.

The two parties (ST / Steam and AN) actually need each other to come up with a strong enough crew that could win a podium spot in the race.

They need Salter + one, probably two strong, experienced guys.

One interesting side of the story which I haven't seen addressed yet: the position of the girls on board. If one of the two -Nagel or Grael-  drops out (for whatever reason, injury or having enough of this whole situation) they will be impossible to be replaced on short notice, resulting in the boat having to be sailed by only 7 men...

(this is actually a problem the other teams have as well) 

 

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And beggars can't be choosers. 

Akzo boat did a great job in adversity. Problem is now there's uncertainty cloud over them, and as attractive as doing a VOR is - professional sailors who actually have experience aren't going to drop everything and everyone at the last minute without good guarantee income. It isn't an accident that basically all the experienced ppl jumped ship. How do you get more is the Q? One you can't solve by saying well we can sail really well - but I can't promise you won't be left at the docks in Capetown when we've run out of money and the boat isn't allowed to leave and you have to buy your own ticket home. 

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7 minutes ago, Miffy said:

professional sailors who actually have experience aren't going to drop everything and everyone at the last minute without good guarantee income. 

Completely wrong.  There are plenty of ex VOR sailors who will jump at the chance to get aboard.  Maybe not the cream of the crop, but plenty of great RTW sailors, and plenty of them can make the time.

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Completely wrong.  There are plenty of ex VOR sailors who will jump at the chance to get aboard.  Maybe not the cream of the crop, but plenty of great RTW sailors, and plenty of them can make the time.

Sounds good. Give us an exclusive re Akzo team re what's going on from the inside scoop and who is flying where to join them. 

If Xabi calls you up and says he has a spot you jump. If Brad calls an old mate they'll jump. Let us know who ST is calling and when they jump. 

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14 minutes ago, Miffy said:

It isn't an accident that basically all the experienced ppl jumped ship. How do you get more is the Q? One you can't solve by saying well we can sail really well - but I can't promise you won't be left at the docks in Capetown when we've run out of money and the boat isn't allowed to leave and you have to buy your own ticket home.

Miff as long as our arses point to the ground the Pussywheelers will underwrite any potential shortfall in potential funding above the Paintballers contribution. Simple maths, their $ loss if they didn't would probably exceed that by a country mile.

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12 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Miff as long as our arses point to the ground the Pussywheelers will underwrite any potential shortfall in potential funding above the Paintballers contribution. Simple maths, their $ loss if they didn't would probably exceed that by a country mile.

Hope so. Tho may be complicated by fact that Akzo the paint company is an actual Race Sponsor - DF/MAPFRE may be less than happy that not only did they not get the late entry discount, but they're footing the bill for the official sponsor - what is this? another official team after TTToP?

 

Southerncross: No - it is called recognizing it isn't easy. I don't pivot from OMG VOR is terrible sinking no funding major cuts OD ruining everything evil north sails southern spars to OMG coverage is great, best ever, love the race experts, etc etc etc. Just calling it as a I see the reality. 

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35 minutes ago, Miffy said:

If Brad calls an old mate they'll jump.

Not sure Brad is taking or receiving too many calls just now as his head is probably still spinning. If he is speaking to anyone it will be Teapot, subject to money and their relationship being not irretrievable. Bear in mind they worked together pretty well to date, did a fine job in the Prologue and Stage 1 has dispelled any fears BJ may have had about Monson's capacity.

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I suspect BJ probably had more issues with being asked to tear up his contract with AK, which provided backpay - and sign another contract with ST's pass thru organization that still owed him money. If I recall correctly, he's been more hands on in the entire build up w/ AB on the new boat and crew - ST went to Bermuda for who knows what when for the AC shenanigans. 

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35 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Sounds good. Give us an exclusive re Akzo team re what's going on from the inside scoop and who is flying where to join them. 

If Xabi calls you up and says he has a spot you jump. If Brad calls an old mate they'll jump. Let us know who ST is calling and when they jump. 

Unfortunately I have too much on my plate to devote investigation time to the VOR right now, and I just canceled my trip to Lisbon that was supposed to happen tomorrow night to go and shoot a show in Chicago.  I have to rely on SA forums like everyone else!

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

ST went to Bermuda for who knows what when for the AC shenanigans. 

To find money

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1 hour ago, Face said:

One interesting side of the story which I haven't seen addressed yet: the position of the girls on board. If one of the two -Nagel or Grael-  drops out (for whatever reason, injury or having enough of this whole situation) they will be impossible to be replaced on short notice, resulting in the boat having to be sailed by only 7 men...

(this is actually a problem the other teams have as well) 

 

They can sail with just one girl if they had to.

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21 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Team Chemistry is much more important than having some good Sailors onboard a boat especially in Ocean Sailing cuz you can spent at times up to 3 weeks together IMO. If some people can't stand each other during that time it affects the whole Team.

Totally agree on that. But I don't think ST and JS can't stand eachother. 

Salter is the guy they need and I would not be surprised if he is already in Lisbon.

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For some reason I only thought the addition of a JO was the only significant platform change for this edition. I just only noticed the keel fin has been lightened and increased in length from 4.5 meters to 4.7. That is quite a significant upgrade. Need to pay attention.

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On 10/31/2017 at 10:44 AM, Yeah Buoy said:

Does anyone know where all of the OBR stuff is this time around?  I rarely do the website and use the iOS app.  I am probably idiot, but I was last time too and I could find it just fine.  Also, can someone start a thread and just post stuff Witty says? 

 

The main source of the stuff coming off the boats is the "Raw feed" page on the official site, at:

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw.html

I'm creating a spreadsheet of metadata about the OBR videos from that page (as well as the various videos posted to YouTube by the VOR people, the teams, and assorted others) here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WVwCp5qwKKfOeAnyFJyDjAIINpPhrj_FQC20DJ7StW8/edit?usp=sharing

Still working on that, but it's coming along. If you're super interested you can watch me talk to myself about what to do next on this Trello board:

https://trello.com/b/NdS8IopU

Re: that media-operation thread I started in the last edition; good lord what a whiner I was (and am). They've basically done everything I asked for. What will I whine about this time around?

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29 minutes ago, jbc said:

The main source of the stuff coming off the boats is the "Raw feed" page on the official site, at:

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw.html

I'm creating a spreadsheet of metadata about the OBR videos from that page (as well as the various videos posted to YouTube by the VOR people, the teams, and assorted others) here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WVwCp5qwKKfOeAnyFJyDjAIINpPhrj_FQC20DJ7StW8/edit?usp=sharing

Still working on that, but it's coming along. If you're super interested you can watch me talk to myself about what to do next on this Trello board:

https://trello.com/b/NdS8IopU

Re: that media-operation thread I started in the last edition; good lord what a whiner I was (and am). They've basically done everything I asked for. What will I whine about this time around?

I was hoping you'd restart that thread :)

Re the media spreadsheet, very useful. As the Front Page noted (congrats), not sure how sustainable it is, but definitely  shows the VOR website what a good idea it is. They should be maintaining it :) 

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Data junkies would love a chance to access this data too.

Quote

Meteorological data 

All of the boats will send 36 data points back to Race Control at Race HQ in Alicante every 10 seconds. This information covers temperature, barometric pressure, wind strength and direction. This data will be passed on to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the European Centre for Medium Range Weather Forecasts.

This data will contribute to more accurate weather forecasts and climate models in order to better understand the weather tomorrow and climate change in the coming decades.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/10225_What-is-the-Science-Programme.html

SA posters have interested enough data geeks who have used SA to beta test some fine tools (thanks, Volodia, forss, and, and, and . . . ). 

Give 'em some open data, and they will reward. 

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Herman thank you very much for translating that newspaper article. However there are two corrections and or additions that need to be made. 

Firstly the above omits the explosive email message addressed to Teapot  snd the crew mid-way through the prologue one morning. It stated and I apologise if my translation is not quite precise, as follows.

Message: "We take from Tienpont, who is captain, employer and manager of the operation, all directions and operations from his hands. Everyone else is now to be employed by Akzo. Tienpont may stay as a skipper, nothing else. Respond before 1 o'clock!"

Now that is hardly an elegant solution with minimal loss of face for the involved parties, as reported above in your post. 

It left the crew in a unenviable if not diabolical position and a few hours to consider while at sea mid race. It left Teapot with no option but to tell the Paintballers to stick their email up their arse and see you in Arbitration. This dumbfuck gun to the head Paintballer approach proved to be the own goals of own goals, as determined by Arbitration outcome some 11 days later.

Secondly, you omitted to recognise Teapots appointment of Madge and her partners legal, PR and general gossip firm to look after his arse. It will probably take years for the full story of the girls contribution to come to light. In fact it might be decades if the period the Kennedy Assasination  files were sealed from public view, is taken as a guide.

Jack, thank you for the additions to the article. I made a translated excerpt, I did not write it. Contact www.nrc.nl for complaints regarding inaccuracies or ommisions. Or sew me. 

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1 hour ago, jbc said:

 

Re: that media-operation thread I started in the last edition; good lord what a whiner I was (and am). They've basically done everything I asked for. whine about this time around?

You don't think that's a coincidence, do you?

 

You call it whining.  They called it an incredible source of market and audience research and critique - all for free.  You know how much it costs to get a consultant to come to those kinds of conclusions?  And how much more it is to find one who comes up with such accurate observations?  

 

Pat yourself on the back, also for the Google Doc, which I gushed over on the front page a few minutes ago and will be using as a resource in the TV show that I me and a former OBR are about to start up.

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

You don't think that's a coincidence, do you?

 

You call it whining.  They called it an incredible source of market and audience research and critique - all for free.  You know how much it costs to get a consultant to come to those kinds of conclusions?  And how much more it is to find one who comes up with such accurate observations?  

 

Pat yourself on the back, also for the Google Doc, which I gushed over on the front page a few minutes ago and will be using as a resource in the TV show that I me and a former OBR are about to start up.

Shucks; thanks. I agree with your take on that live Gibraltar show, too; that was amazing. I especially loved when we could hear the on-board audio off Vestas while watching them from the helicopter, and the commentators had the sense to be quiet and listen with us.

Getting the raw OBR videos off the boats so close in time to their being uploaded is great. One of the cool things about it is that you can take the timestamp of the uploaded video, roll the tracker back to that timestamp, and get a decent idea of the conditions at the time, nearby competitors, etc. It's not perfect (because there's always going to be a delay, possibly a long one, between the OBR shooting the footage and uploading the video), but it's surprisingly close a lot of the time. The OBRs appear to be uploading their videos really quickly. And I don't know; for me it really adds to my appreciation of the video to be able to contextualize it that way.

Here's a wishlist item in case the Volvo folks are paying attention: It would be neat if the tracker had an API that allowed you to link to a specific timestamp (maybe even a specific boat+timestamp). Then you could do things like post links in places like this forum (or in the spreadsheet) that would take you to that point in time in the tracker. You can accomplish the same thing by scrolling manually, but it seems like a cool feature that a tracker developer might already have built in there somewhere.

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Completely wrong.  There are plenty of ex VOR sailors who will jump at the chance to get aboard.  Maybe not the cream of the crop, but plenty of great RTW sailors, and plenty of them can make the time.

 

Are there plenty sailors with previous experience who would sign up once more? Sure.
But how many of them meet the new VOR crew requirements? The Oceanmaster Costal ticket takes a bit more time than the usual survival course refresher. (Or vice versa, who is currently tweeting about taking the Oceanmaster course ;)  )

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1 hour ago, jbc said:

It would be neat if the tracker had an API that allowed you to link to a specific timestamp (maybe even a specific boat+timestamp).

Saw this done somewhere else recently.  Memory escapes but I think it was a Tweet link embedded on the route track of a boat in the tracker.  I think it was the VOR, maybe the Fastnet.  Looked like they might have playing with the idea.

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6 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

jbc & southern,

We need a "Virtual 3D Tracker", simple is that.

Maybe next time.  Pretty content with the changes done in this edition.  

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16 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Saw this done somewhere else recently.  Memory escapes but I think it was a Tweet link embedded on the route track of a boat in the tracker.  I think it was the VOR, maybe the Fastnet.  Looked like they might have playing with the idea.

 

2 minutes ago, DtM said:

Don't all the French Round the World sites do it?

Many French races did, IIRC. Was a good way to see when a team tweeted, or whatever.

Didn't Volodia have a link on his tracker to various media feeds? Quite useful without cluttering the screen.

VOR tried something similar in the past in the app, and like the Virtual tracker which sent many of our (computer) fans into overdrive, they've dropped it for now.

 

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33 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Saw this done somewhere else recently.  Memory escapes but I think it was a Tweet link embedded on the route track of a boat in the tracker.  I think it was the VOR, maybe the Fastnet.  Looked like they might have playing with the idea.

I think it was the last VOR

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Herman thank you very much for translating that newspaper article. However there are two corrections and or additions that need to be made. 

Firstly the above omits the explosive email message addressed to Teapot  snd the crew mid-way through the prologue one morning. It stated and I apologise if my translation is not quite precise, as follows.

Message: "We take from Tienpont, who is captain, employer and manager of the operation, all directions and operations from his hands. Everyone else is now to be employed by Akzo. Tienpont may stay as a skipper, nothing else. Respond before 1 o'clock!"

Now that is hardly an elegant solution with minimal loss of face for the involved parties, as reported above in your post. 

It left the crew in a unenviable if not diabolical position and a few hours to consider while at sea mid race. It left Teapot with no option but to tell the Paintballers to stick their email up their arse and see you in Arbitration. This dumbfuck gun to the head Paintballer approach proved to be the own goals of own goals, as determined by Arbitration outcome some 11 days later.

Secondly, you omitted to recognise Teapots appointment of Madge and her partners legal, PR and general gossip firm to look after his arse. It will probably take years for the full story of the girls contribution to come to light. In fact it might be decades if the period the Kennedy Assasination  files were sealed from public view, is taken as a guide.

So why did Salter etc not sail leg one??

Clearly some issue around T-pots reinstatement and previous nonsense but really who promised or implied what and where is the integrity in all this.....??????????

Hypothetical question - would you work for AKZO or T-pot.... I'm none the wiser......

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I would guess for Salter et al it was a money issue back and forward.

Not sure I would work for either T-pot or AKZO but if your dream was to do the VOR and pay was a bit secondary then why not.

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

No guarantee that the Paintwagon would be starting Leg 2, and quite frankly is still the case.

How do you nail paperwork to a carbon mast? 

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7 hours ago, southerncross said:

Saw this done somewhere else recently.  Memory escapes but I think it was a Tweet link embedded on the route track of a boat in the tracker.  I think it was the VOR, maybe the Fastnet.  Looked like they might have playing with the idea.

It was done on the Idec and Sodebo-record hunting around the world. Not sure if they had a geovoile tracker?

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On 31/10/2017 at 11:44 PM, Face said:

get Salter and Chuny back. And win the fucking race!

You got that right... 

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On 01/11/2017 at 8:44 AM, Face said:

get Salter and Chuny back. 

 

1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

You got that right... 

Putting aside these two guys walked so their potential return is both out of their hands and would require them each swallowing large plates of mea culpa, Teapot has some simple questions to answer if he did consider throwing them a olive branch when dollars permitting he now needs at least two experienced male hands to join the team. 

Some of those questions would include:

1. Despite the most bizzare set of circumstances he now has a "all for one and one for all" team that went short-handed in a leg that punished that, includes 2 well credentialed women and which is a team second to none in that vital winning department called "spirit". 

Any new bodies must complement that, not potentially destroy it no matter how good their CV is.

2.  If that potential inductee passed that first test, how does their expertise dovetail with those who did Leg 1, including maybe diminishing or even replacing the role played by a current and proven Paintballer member. 

Using Salter as an example where does that leave Billy the Kid Monson? Do they go back to their old roles of the master and the backroom apprentice? 

Trouble with that scenario is the during/post Leg 1 video I saw of Billy was a self effacing middle age guy, with talent to burn who was pleased as fuckin punch and clearly willing to walk through brick walls to make the best decisions to advance his team. As for his capability, well probably best go ask the world class navigators on the receiving end of Billy's calls in Leg 1 what they think of his ability? I suspect some are lined up outside his room at night asking for tips. So as for Salter being a stand up start, I doubt it.

So money and decent potential candidates being available, Teapot has some big decisions to make as I write and that we will shortly see the outcome of. 

However one thing is certain and that is anyone who still doubts Teapots ability to overcome adversity and make inspirational calls to fulfill his own aspirations and that of the Paintwagon team, must living on Mars. 

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56 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

You got that right... 

Wouldn't be surprised if Chuny left because Brad was already using his elbows. Did they not have similar tasks in the team? That and the lack of payment, just guessing.

Does anybody know if Chuny has been around in Lisbon ? 

 

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1 minute ago, Fiji Flaky said:

Does anybody know if Chuny has been around in Lisbon ? 

Bindi and Dorothy know when anyone of VOR significance takes a dump in Lisbon. Chuny is currently constipated.

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

Bindi and Dorothy know when anyone of VOR significance takes a dump in Lisbon. Chuny is currently constipated.

Thanks, keep sniffing them out then, please !

Am sending in a whole pack of dogs, soon...

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1 hour ago, Fiji Flaky said:

Wouldn't be surprised if Chuny left because Brad was already using his elbows. Did they not have similar tasks in the team? That and the lack of payment, just guessing.

Does anybody know if Chuny has been around in Lisbon ? 

 

AFAIK, Chuny left for other reasons, and him coming back would make sense if they let him do things his way, especially if those things are his responsibility. 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

and would require them each swallowing large plates of mea culpa,

Certainly not in Chuny's case.

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Just now, chuso007 said:

AFAIK, Chuny left for other reasons, and him coming back would make sense if they let him do things his way, especially if those things are his responsibility. 

 
Just now, chuso007 said:

Certainly not in Chuny's case.

 

So Tienpont wanted to do it his way then. May well be that Tienpont is now willing to come to a compromise and build on team morale a bit more.

Indeed, that would mean that Tienpont needs to swallow a small plate of mea culpa...

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15 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Certainly not in Chuny's case.

English is obviously not your first laungage if you are quoting in direct context to my post. That aside being guided by something sitting in your mind or a fact you know I suggest you post your own opinion, not misrepresent others that do. 

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9 minutes ago, Fiji Flaky said:

So Tienpont wanted to do it his way then.

Yep and it worked and everyone who didn't back him are mere spectators now after the success of Leg 1 if you haven't noticed you turnip.

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yep and it worked and everyone who didn't back him are mere spectators now after the success of Leg 1 if you haven't noticed you turnip.

Sorry, didn't know that being overtaken by two boats and finishing in 4th place was a success  If you mean after all the "distractions", then yes, it was quite an achievement. But its clear that Tienpont is not earning many points for leadership, perhaps you can get that in your pumpkin head.

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34 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
45 minutes ago, Fiji Flaky said:

So Tienpont wanted to do it his way then.

Yep and it worked and everyone who didn't back him are mere spectators now after the success of Leg 1 if you haven't noticed you turnip.

 

I think you have to narrow “being a spectator now” down to the individual (hot shot) sailors.

 

So the 4 guys of the original dream team standing on the dock in Alicante (or were already at home) at the start of leg 1 were Salter, Chuny, Jackson and Signorini:

Signorini and Jackson definitely stabbed a knife in ST’s back so it will be impossible to see them back on the boat.

Chuny left earlier but it may well be that this had more to do with salary payments and the way AN “managed” the whole thing.

Salter, being the most intelligent of the bunch (by far, if you compare him with Jackson and Signorini), took a more middle of the road approach.

After all the warfare going on until the very last minute before the start in Alicante,  he (probably wisely) decided not to sail leg one, but did leave the door open for the future.

In short: we may well see Salter back on the boat,  and with a little luck, Chuny too.

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

My head's depleted uranium and your not getting inside it.

mmm, depleted for sure...

 

Image result for pumpkin head image OR emoji

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44 minutes ago, Face said:

In short: we may well see Salter back on the boat,

Face never in a million years other than a very very rare possibilty and only then in a dual and equal role with Billy the Kid Monson where they leapfrog legs ..all for the reasons I have already stated above.

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Face never in a million years other than very very possibly in a dual and equal role with Billy the Kid Monson for reasons already stated above.

If they were already a good team before all the trouble, then that could work very well. Two navigators brainstorming a bit, and one spotting mistakes when the other gets tired for instance, could be an asset, if, if, they are both good enough helmsmen (I think they are), and both are fit enough to stand full watches/do some grinding etc. too. All speculation though...

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yep and it worked and everyone who didn't back him are mere spectators now after the success of Leg 1 if you haven't noticed you turnip.

I want whatever you are drinking/smoking.  What success?  Mid fleet finish.  They were near back, had one good or lucky nav call (take your pick), to get within striking distance of lead and then promptly went backwards, consistently and constantly losing ground to lead and then losing 2 places to finish off the podium.  Think they have a serious case of the slows and am betting they finish 4th or worst for the race.

Nobody knows if its the skipper or the sponsor or the management company, or how its going to turn out but come on you are putting lipstick on a pig.

Would love to see the skipper pull it out and do well if indeed he has been wronged by the sponsor but I think 4th would be a stretch and 6th is more likely for Azo.  Hope they prove me wrong though.

As for Volvo it was nice and a pleasant surprise to see great coverage and an interesting legs 1 of the race instead of the endless he said/she said soap opera drama lamas of the Azo internal team politics mess.

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10 hours ago, mad said:

How do you nail paperwork to a carbon mast? 

Mad like you a life of fine wine and fine women has impacted upon my memory too. So I too easily forget about the advent of alloy rigs between timber and carbon. 

Now thinking about the use of alloy rigs I believe most sheriff's/ballifs or what ever the fuck their title was in their country of employment and with the required paperwork in hand... for the last 40 years have been carrying duct tape and when they happened to get a timber rig were completely fucked as they didn't carry a hammer and any clout nails. 

So with the advent of carbon rigs replacing alloy I think a resurgence of old school hammering in notices with a packet of clouts is now happening again, but where the old carbon copy of the notice is not sent by snail mail anymore, but now emailed as a CC. 

The world of sailing legality is complex and continually evolving. Anyway back to my wine, the woman is running late yet again.

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8 minutes ago, Wess said:

I want whatever you are drinking/smoking.  What success?  Mid fleet finish.  They were near back, had one good or lucky nav call (take your pick), to get within striking distance of lead and then promptly went backwards, consistently and constantly losing ground to lead and then losing 2 places to finish off the podium.  Think they have a serious case of the slows and am betting they finish 4th or worst for the race.

Nobody knows if its the skipper or the sponsor or the management company, or how its going to turn out but come on you are putting lipstick on a pig.

Would love to see the skipper pull it out and do well if indeed he has been wronged by the sponsor but I think 4th would be a stretch and 6th is more likely for Azo.  Hope they prove me wrong though.

As for Volvo it was nice and a pleasant surprise to see great coverage and an interesting legs 1 of the race instead of the endless he said/she said soap opera drama lamas of the Azo internal team politics mess.

Plus 1 on the overall performance in leg one.

The success was getting to the start line and finishing the leg in an ok place with reduced man / woman power & experience which stating the obvious was created by all that went beforehand.

Unless someone actually knows the crew line up, but lets assume they get some solid experience onboard, the true potential will only begin to reveal itself after a leg or two go by.

I have no strong leaning towards any of the teams but I hope AKZO gel as a full crew and get in the mix.

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

 I want whatever you are drinking/smoking...... They (AkN) were near back, had one good or lucky nav call (take your pick), to get within striking distance of lead...

Wes forget who is gulping or enhaling, what is the colour of the sky in your world with that bizzare Paintwagon Leg 1 summation??

1 hour ago, Wess said:

Mid fleet finish. ...Think they have a serious case of the slows 

Wes some see a potential pearl, where others see a oyster. I appreciate fine jewelry, you like chomping on obvious seafood. Cheers.

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Aksel Magdahl has most certainly/probably been asked to join  Akzo on the water (he is part of the shore team), but understandably he sticks to his newly appointed role as being a father. Too bad for the Paintwagon imo, good for him.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

English is obviously not your first laungage if you are quoting in direct context to my post. That aside being guided by something sitting in your mind or a fact you know I suggest you post your own opinion, not misrepresent others that do. 

As obvious as the fact that you have  your head so far up your ass that it's sometimes hard to understand what you say...;-) 

 

And yes, I know first hand why Chuny wasn't happy and a lot of other things that you don't...

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49 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mad like you a life of fine wine and fine women has impacted upon my memory too. So I too easily forget about the advent of alloy rigs between timber and carbon. 

Now thinking about the use of alloy rigs I believe most sheriff's/ballifs or what ever the fuck their title was in their country of employment and with the required paperwork in hand... for the last 40 years have been carrying duct tape and when they happened to get a timber rig were completely fucked as they didn't carry a hammer and any clout nails. 

So with the advent of carbon rigs replacing alloy I think a resurgence of old school hammering in notices with a packet of clouts is now happening again, but where the old carbon copy of the notice is not sent by snail mail anymore, but now emailed as a CC. 

The world of sailing legality is complex and continually evolving. Anyway back to my wine, the woman is running late yet again.

I'm not as old as you!! :lol:

enjoy the wine. 

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30 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

And yes, I know first hand why Chuny wasn't happy and a lot of other things that you don't...

You must be Chuny's Bank Manager then and have been up his arse all year for the Paintballer money not rolling in and have been threatening to seize Villa Chuny and his José Feliciano vinyl collection. Fuck no wonder he bailed.

BTW you're the first Bank Manager to join SA..thats awesome and very brave on your behalf. Do you have a special boat finance deal going for SA members?

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

come on you are putting lipstick on a pig.

Roaring success no but I think your prejudice is showing.  I'm pretty sure that DFRT don't agree with you, they seemed quite focused on sailing hard to beat them.   As much as one could argue that second is the first loser the fact that AKZO was competitive, that other teams were taking them very seriously, that they didn't limp in days after the rest of the fleet, goes in the positive side of the balance sheet.

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14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You must be Chuny's Bank Manager then and have been up his arse all year for the Paintballer money not rolling in and have been threatening to take Villa Chuny and his José Feliciano vinyl collection.

BTW you're the first Bank Manager to join SA..thats awesome and very brave on your behalf. Do you have a special boat finance deal going for SA members?

It must be exhausting being you...

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32 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

jack,

mad is a horrible human being. He repeatedly is insulting me.

I laughed so hard coffee almost came out my nose.  

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3 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

It must be exhausting being you...

Not really after Bindy gave me the sage advice of "don't hold your breath" . You should try it, oxygen is...well oxygen.

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1 hour ago, Solephaedrus said:

Roaring success no but I think your prejudice is showing.  I'm pretty sure that DFRT don't agree with you, they seemed quite focused on sailing hard to beat them.   As much as one could argue that second is the first loser the fact that AKZO was competitive, that other teams were taking them very seriously, that they didn't limp in days after the rest of the fleet, goes in the positive side of the balance sheet.

Yea, that is fair.  I should know better to get sucked into the insanity vortext of the JS troll.  My bad.  Just frustrated with all the noise in what could be a good thread.  But it is Sailing Anarchy...

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Granted and agreed.  I wouldn't dare insinuate that SA isn't living up to its moniker, but for a perspective  jump even further down the rabbit hole than SA's forums you should try Stab forums (surfing web mag) - and they've cleaned up dramatically in the last 4 months, read some older topics/posts!

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Jack, what did you do, grind the Opti down and start snorting it?

southern I'm mortified you have disclosed my personel Opti tragedy on this public forum. All I can say I have made amends with my maker in that regard.  I took the Opti to  Europe last year as carry on luggage and transported 2,670 Nth African refugees to Turkey. I ended up leaving it in a small village assuring them this was their gateway to challenging for the AC and Aliguist would back them to the hilt. Only time will tell.

And mate I don't have a drinking or substance abuse problem as you alude to, because I don't go to the meetings. I'm starting to wonder if you are truly my long lost brother on account of your cheap jibe. 

Concerned Brother Jack.

 

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