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If they stick with the O/D model with a limited number of boats, they could use the off years to run shorter races in which the teams used to qualify or not for the VOR, currently they no longer the fastest sexiest boats, so it trades on the best sailors. Why are the VOR crews the best sailors in the world ? Because VOR says so. I think there would be validity to the claims if they had beat other teams to get a spot on the start line.

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Clean, It was asked back in 2003, 2008 and 2012. Same answer each time: having 6 to 8 70X60 platforms makes venues and timing very difficult. Remember that if the boats are a lot faster then the eitre get around the world too quickly and arrive in Newport in the winter, or leave Alicante in the winter, or they spend too long ta the dock and that is the biggest cost.

I also find the conclusions on cost of a multi hard to believe. How can an item that takes 20,000 man hours more to build and uses 1.5 times as much carbon in three times as much tooling cost about the same?

agree, as much as I love multis they cost more for the same level of tech, maybe they figure in the reduced manning costs to even out but still...

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Mike Sanderson made a few good points about an open IRC race. Some guys will race for line honours only, like the maxis in the SH, but there are a lot of existing boats around which would be very competive for outright corrected, he mentioned Lucky (ex Loki), but there are heaps of this type of race boats already campaigning.

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If they stick with the O/D model with a limited number of boats, they could use the off years to run shorter races in which the teams used to qualify or not for the VOR, currently they no longer the fastest sexiest boats, so it trades on the best sailors. Why are the VOR crews the best sailors in the world ? Because VOR says so. I think there would be validity to the claims if they had beat other teams to get a spot on the start line.

Not sure if the vor sailors are the very best in the world, but probably the best offshore sailors available at a particular time. If they weren't, they wouldn't get the financial backing. Don't know if there ever has been a maximum number of boats in the VOR

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^ One year to go and one anounced team ...

 

Why, are Mapfre and Dongfeng waiting to see if there will be more teams before committing?

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^ One year to go and one anounced team ...

 

Why, are Mapfre and Dongfeng waiting to see if there will be more teams before committing?

They won't be waiting for that.

 

They will be deciding when the best time to make a splash with announcing the team is. This may well be done in consultation with the VOR office. (Dongfeng most certainly will be.) The announcement is a one time opportunity to get some good media coverage, so you want to maximise benefit. Given the nature of the race this time around there is no need to announce early.

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something might pop up from here http://germanoceanracingteam.com/

and seems not much here http://www.liveyourdreamteam.org/

otherwise update from Team Hong Kong Ocean Racing in Hong Kong.

Terry Newby joins Team Hong Kong as CEO for the 2017-18 Volvo Ocean Race. Terry brings his very valuable experience to the team with having 30 years management experience in professional yachting. Terry has been Project Manager for 3 America's Cup teams and more recently a venue acquisition consultant for the World Match Racing Tour.

Terry's mission is to work with our current partners to finalize funding to ensure Team Hong Kong is on the start line!

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Anyone know anything about the selection of OBR candidates for the race? I have heard of some rejection letters coming out and also heard of at least one acceptance letter has been sent, but we have heard nothing regarding my partners application, no interview either. Anyone have the scoop? Have they all been selected already? How many will be selected for the first training etc? Thanks in advance.

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Are the boats all stripped of branding and Dongfeng left on as they are likely to be coming back?

 

 

Or have they just been left as-is since the last race?

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Can we have a list of the modifications being made to the boat in the refit? It's nice to hear "stuff is happening" but lots of us here like the details about "stuff"

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About the paintjob on DF boat... give them time, the hull is just come in the shed. They have to dismount a lot of stuff before thinking about the paint. I guess it will be one of the last steps.

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Rule change, putting an emphasis on female sailors in the VOR.

 

Possible combinations in the upcoming edition:

- 7 male (was 8)

- 7 of one sex + 1 or 2 of the other sex. (was 8: 1-3 female, rest male)

- 5 female + 5 male (was 9: 4+ female, rest male)

- 11 female (as before)

 

 

Basically removing 1 male and getting 1 additonal female in the mixed teams. All female still limited at 11.

 

I like it, should change the dynamics up for the spectators. Very strong incentive against all male teams.

OTOH after very loosely following the job opportunities of Team SCA after SCA it certainly looks like this was necessary step to force female sailors into the teams and keep them in the VOR game after the last edition. :(

But maybe I'm wrong (again)and there will be at least 1 female team that was in the works for a long time.

 

 

 

There will be 9 more VOR announcements in the next 2 weeks. Maybe some teams? Makes waiting for the VG easier. B)

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Sounds good in theory, but risk is that they'll just put seven 200 pound gorillas onboard, although I guess too few sailors could be a risk wrt injuries or fatigue

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Rule change, putting an emphasis on female sailors in the VOR.

 

Possible combinations in the upcoming edition:

- 7 male (was 8)

- 7 of one sex + 1 or 2 of the other sex. (was 8: 1-3 female, rest male)

- 5 female + 5 male (was 9: 4+ female, rest male)

- 11 female (as before)

 

 

Basically removing 1 male and getting 1 additonal female in the mixed teams. All female still limited at 11.

 

I like it, should change the dynamics up for the spectators. Very strong incentive against all male teams.

OTOH after very loosely following the job opportunities of Team SCA after SCA it certainly looks like this was necessary step to force female sailors into the teams and keep them in the VOR game after the last edition. :(

But maybe I'm wrong (again)and there will be at least 1 female team that was in the works for a long time.

 

 

 

There will be 9 more VOR announcements in the next 2 weeks. Maybe some teams? Makes waiting for the VG easier. B)

 

Way cool! It will be interesting to see the team configurations. Seems silly to go with just 7 male and no women.....?

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Rule or no rule, bottom line is no matter how talented and experienced they are, it is still very very hard for the girls to get a ride.

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Rule or no rule, bottom line is no matter how talented and experienced they are, it is still very very hard for the girls to get a ride.

 

Yeah, maybe we won't see mixed teams until it's mandatory.

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Why wouldn't you take a female or two given these rules?

 

I would have thought the likes of Sam Davies or Libby greenhalgh could demand a very good salary.

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I also think this a canny bit of marketing for the sponsors. it makes the event (assuming most teams are mixed) really stand out from all other sports. I can't think of another top line sport with mixed teams.

 

It should raise the profile of the vor and sailing

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There's nothing wrong with their skills. It's just that with more professionalism in the sport, core strength and fitness has become more important.

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Why wouldn't you take a female or two given these rules?

 

I would have thought the likes of Sam Davies or Libby greenhalgh could demand a very good salary.

Sam is a skipper. Can't see her as a just hired hand after what she achieved last time.

Maybe if she skippers a girls boat next time she might take a token bloke or two to do some of the donkey work! A campaign with that formula would pay its sponsor well.

 

I don't like these new rules as they implicitly suggest that a bloke is "worth more" than a girl, and I don't see it that way. These boats are weight sensitive and if your crew plus their provisions weighs too much the boat will be slow, so why not simply allow the skipper to have as many or as few of either sex in their crew? That would be equality without positive discrimination.

 

Already in this thread folk are assuming that guys will be "in charge" and in the position to call the shots, and maybe select a girl or two. The problem for SCA last time was that there were men in the background who thought they should select and run the crew! We need to see women step up to the plate and take the leadership roles.

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I guess there's no chance of them adding DSS/Foils a la IMOCA 60s then?? That could brighten them up.

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Dunno about these gender rules, should just be the team of 10 sailors who best do the job regardless of gender.

 

Keep it that simple and you'll all but rule out women. If you want to crack the door without setting quotas you set a crew weight limit. ie max 10 crew or 800kg.

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Bad Idea - if you have ever sailed in a class where there are weigh ins - you will have seen some bat shit crazy attempts to make the weigh in.

 

The Volvo already has many well documented cases of serious weight loss by crew on these demanding boats - you do not want to set sail with a crew that is on the limit of fatigue/endurance under normal circumstances; by then hobbling them beforehand with crash diets and dehydration by having to make a weigh in.

The weight loss issue that naturally occurs in each long leg would make a post leg weigh in meaningless.

No matter how well intentioned a weigh in rule is written there will always be someone pushing the envelope. Offshore is not the place to bring this added burden.

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Why wouldn't you take a female or two given these rules?

 

I would have thought the likes of Sam Davies or Libby greenhalgh could demand a very good salary.

 

They had the option to bring a female last edition, but chose not to. So it will be interesting to see if they are more willing to add a female when the limit is reduced from 8 to 7 males. I fear that it's not enough and that they must be reduced to 6 until the are willing....

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Already in this thread folk are assuming that guys will be "in charge" and in the position to call the shots, and maybe select a girl or two. The problem for SCA last time was that there were men in the background who thought they should select and run the crew! We need to see women step up to the plate and take the leadership roles.

 

 

The assumption is probably right, by 99,9999999%.

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Why wouldn't you take a female or two given these rules?

 

I would have thought the likes of Sam Davies or Libby greenhalgh could demand a very good salary.

 

They had the option to bring a female last edition, but chose not to. So it will be interesting to see if they are more willing to add a female when the limit is reduced from 8 to 7 males. I fear that it's not enough and that they must be reduced to 6 until the are willing....

 

 

 

There is a big difference between being forced and being willing.

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Mark Turner comments on his FB page that it was either this decision, or there was a great risk of not having any females on this next edition. So I guess the Magenta girls were going nowhere in their sponsor search... thus, their change of focus towards the 2017 Extreme Sailing Series

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Already in this thread folk are assuming that guys will be "in charge" and in the position to call the shots, and maybe select a girl or two. The problem for SCA last time was that there were men in the background who thought they should select and run the crew! We need to see women step up to the plate and take the leadership roles.

 

 

The assumption is probably right, by 99,9999999%.

 

 

Yes. Both the business world and the world of ocean sailing are overwhelmingly male dominated.

 

The men at the top of both these trees see sailing as macho, and the natural province of men ONLY. Sponsors are run by men. The last thing they all want to see is women being successful at this sport without men being involved. That spectacle bursts the bubble of male ego, and that is not what these guys want! Best way for the women to be kept out is to have men in charge and that is the status quo at the moment.

 

Sadly I am not expecting a successful womens VOR campaign until a sponsor who's market is women, and which has some women with real power as the CEO or a strong board member in charge of marketing, or women who are keen on sport as major shareholders decides to run a campaign.

 

Roxy, the company which backed Sam in the VG (2008, arrived 3rd in Les Sables with a 9 year old boat) was a company with a market of young women and with women among top executives. Men did not foul up that campaign.

 

Mark Turner needs to be looking for companies like Roxy, but bigger; then maybe women could have a fair chance.

 

Playing around with positive discrimination, token women etc. just makes women look feeble. Just what the macho men at the top of sailing like to perpetuate. That is more likely to put sponsors off women rather than encourage them to see the value of a female campaign.

 

Mark should know better, after all, he recognised Ellen MacArthur as a woman who could compete with men on equal terms and she wasn't exactly a giant!

 

Let's all hope that a sponsor run by women at the top comes forward. Right now though I am doubting that a race will actually happen and if its "men only" in the slow old 65's I doubt I will bother following even if it happens.

 

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Already in this thread folk are assuming that guys will be "in charge" and in the position to call the shots, and maybe select a girl or two. The problem for SCA last time was that there were men in the background who thought they should select and run the crew! We need to see women step up to the plate and take the leadership roles.

 

 

The assumption is probably right, by 99,9999999%.

 

 

 

Playing around with positive discrimination, token women etc. just makes women look feeble.

 

 

 

Only in the beginning. After a while, it will be normal. And I don't think the sponsor needs to be a brand that only sells to women. The list of products that both sexes buy, is quite long :)

 

All and all, I think it will serve the female athletes better to be part of a mixed team than in an all female team. With mixed teams, it's no longer men against women. It's equal terms.

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......................... With mixed teams, it's no longer men against women. It's equal terms.

 

And watch this space, men will be in charge of all the crews and all the campaigns! Where is the "equality " in that?

Boring.... Boring .... and women will remain 2nd class competitors!

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Next rule change: Social media from the boats.

 

Sailors will do social media from the race. Serve filtering involved, no outside help and all of that. One way, no channel to the boats.

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......................... With mixed teams, it's no longer men against women. It's equal terms.

 

And watch this space, men will be in charge of all the crews and all the campaigns! Where is the "equality " in that?

Boring.... Boring .... and women will remain 2nd class competitors!

 

 

I just care about the crews. I'm sure that the men in charge will be able to find capable women - why wouldn't they - they'd look stupid if they didn't - and that the women will integrate nicely in their teams.

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Who doesn't want a woman on a boat and especially one that can out do most men on the water anyway. Damn. Even the Space Program has a mixed crew.

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Why wouldn't you take a female or two given these rules?

 

I would have thought the likes of Sam Davies or Libby greenhalgh could demand a very good salary.

Sam is a skipper. Can't see her as a just hired hand after what she achieved last time.

Maybe if she skippers a girls boat next time she might take a token bloke or two to do some of the donkey work! A campaign with that formula would pay its sponsor well.

 

I don't like these new rules as they implicitly suggest that a bloke is "worth more" than a girl, and I don't see it that way. These boats are weight sensitive and if your crew plus their provisions weighs too much the boat will be slow, so why not simply allow the skipper to have as many or as few of either sex in their crew? That would be equality without positive discrimination.

 

Already in this thread folk are assuming that guys will be "in charge" and in the position to call the shots, and maybe select a girl or two. The problem for SCA last time was that there were men in the background who thought they should select and run the crew! We need to see women step up to the plate and take the leadership roles.

Finding a sponsor who's willing to step up to the plate will always be the biggest hurdle for that type of deal to happen.

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Why wouldn't you take a female or two given these rules?

 

I would have thought the likes of Sam Davies or Libby greenhalgh could demand a very good salary.

They had the option to bring a female last edition, but chose not to. So it will be interesting to see if they are more willing to add a female when the limit is reduced from 8 to 7 males. I fear that it's not enough and that they must be reduced to 6 until the are willing....

I'm not sure that twisting the rules to force female crews onto the boat is a good idea.

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Why wouldn't you take a female or two given these rules?

 

I would have thought the likes of Sam Davies or Libby greenhalgh could demand a very good salary.

They had the option to bring a female last edition, but chose not to. So it will be interesting to see if they are more willing to add a female when the limit is reduced from 8 to 7 males. I fear that it's not enough and that they must be reduced to 6 until the are willing....

I'm not sure that twisting the rules to force female crews onto the boat is a good idea.

 

 

Just a thought....what if some of the male crew actually thinks it's a good idea to add 2 women, but are afraid to say so, because others are against it? If it was forced it wouldn't be an issue and they just had to find the best 2....like, if it's not a choice it doesn't matter what they think.

 

 

 

Just thinking out loud here :)

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Why wouldn't you take a female or two given these rules?

I would have thought the likes of Sam Davies or Libby greenhalgh could demand a very good salary.

 

They had the option to bring a female last edition, but chose not to. So it will be interesting to see if they are more willing to add a female when the limit is reduced from 8 to 7 males. I fear that it's not enough and that they must be reduced to 6 until the are willing....

I'm not sure that twisting the rules to force female crews onto the boat is a good idea.

Just a thought....what if some of the male crew actually thinks it's a good idea to add 2 women, but are afraid to say so, because others are against it? If it was forced it wouldn't be an issue and they just had to find the best 2....like, if it's not a choice it doesn't matter what they think.

 

 

 

Just thinking out loud here :)

Me too, you made a good point.

 

Maybe an anonymous poll from all the last Crews going back to the 70 footers as well would be an idea??

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Trying to understand the downside of having a mixed crew. What might it be? Plenty of upside. A mixed crew appeals to both sexes - double the market. You get some great drivers, especially inshore. The physical aspect is diminished somewhat for a woman when working with a mixed crew as opposed to an all female crew. Is it really all about the "'ol gents club"?

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Trying to understand the downside of having a mixed crew. What might it be? Plenty of upside. A mixed crew appeals to both sexes - double the market. You get some great drivers, especially inshore. The physical aspect is diminished somewhat for a woman when working with a mixed crew as opposed to an all female crew. Is it really all about the "'ol gents club"?

 

Maybe they are afraid that they can't fart, burp and do other disgusting stuff if they have women on the team? No worries, I think the women are used to it - they are not barbie dolls :)

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Trying to understand the downside of having a mixed crew. What might it be? Plenty of upside. A mixed crew appeals to both sexes - double the market. You get some great drivers, especially inshore. The physical aspect is diminished somewhat for a woman when working with a mixed crew as opposed to an all female crew. Is it really all about the "'ol gents club"?

Maybe they are afraid that they can't fart, burp and do other disgusting stuff if they have women on the team? No worries, I think the women are used to it - they are not barbie dolls :)

Hmm. You're right. Come to think of it, that would be a downside.

 

Oh well. Scrap that idea.

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If the pool of girls has the calibre of Sophie Ciszek, you'd have rocks in your head not to pick a girl on your team. Then you have the experience and management skills of of a Liz, Sam, Dee, etc etc.

I for one would be more interested in sponsoring a team with girls than without. I'd also barrack for a team that chose girls. Why? Anyone that knows them, know they work harder and deserve to be there.

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Speaking of which, I've been wracking my brain trying to think of a global brand besides HH with the capital and would benefit from sponsoring an all girl team again.

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As NorBowGirl suggested, I think the secret is a co that caters to both sexes is the key. Look at sporting apparel, reebok, adidas, new balance, Nike , North face, Champion, converse, Asics etc. or what about Garmin , Rayban, .

The market gets bigger quickly I think.

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For the TV viewer it won't really matter who is sailing, as long as they're professional. It's not like an all male crew would sail the boat more spectacularly. It's different in eg surfing, where there are clear skill differences

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As NorBowGirl suggested, I think the secret is a co that caters to both sexes is the key. Look at sporting apparel, reebok, adidas, new balance, Nike , North face, Champion, converse, Asics etc. or what about Garmin , Rayban, .

The market gets bigger quickly I think.

But if the mixed bag doesn't work out and it's still all-girl?

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I know what you mean SC, and I would hope it wouldn't be any different. Reality may make a liar out of me though. I'm sure Team Magenta would be hammering these co's already .

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I like the concept, But not sure further penalizing an all Male team is the right thing to do.

 

It forces the point in no uncertain terms.

 

Thinking out loud, What if Abu Dhabi came back in, but the sponsor say's "Must have X number of Locals". By their own laws they cant have a mixed crew....

 

Or, Late team entry, you may be forced to take a Less known, lower skilled female as the other teams have all gone 50/50 and gobbled up the best. Simple because going with 7 is not an option.

 

Unfortunately I don't think there is 50+ females who are the best of the best for a Volvo. I know that Sounds sad, but inexperience is a killer offshore. Inshore Skill is a different skill set.

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Unfortunately I don't think there is 50+ females who are the best of the best for a Volvo. I know that Sounds sad, but inexperience is a killer offshore. Inshore Skill is a different skill set.

 

Why do you need 50 plus?

 

Assume you have one all female crew (11) plus two boats with an even male/female split (10) and five boats with two women each (10) that's only 31 sailors. And I'm being generous on having two boats with an even split of crew.

 

Team SCA picked 15 from 250 applicants...

 

And sure, experience is a killer offshore - but it's not as though you're asking teams to take a club sailor around the world. There's plenty of great women sailors who've done the Fastnet, Cape-Rio, Transpac, Hobart multiple times - and probably ten who've done multiple Volvo races and would be keen to go again. And assuming that there's at least 3.5 billion women on Earth, even if you do need 50 of them that's only 0.0000014 % of the population.

 

I also don't see how it's more dangerous than mandating at least one under-30 sailor for each team. I know plenty of properly dangerous under-30 sailors. And they're all male.

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As NorBowGirl suggested, I think the secret is a co that caters to both sexes is the key. Look at sporting apparel, reebok, adidas, new balance, Nike , North face, Champion, converse, Asics etc. or what about Garmin , Rayban, .

The market gets bigger quickly I think.

But if the mixed bag doesn't work out and it's still all-girl?

 

 

I don't think the all male teams are thinking that they need a sponsor who sells things to men only? So why should a sponsor for a female team do that? Women also buy cars, mobile phones, sports gear, etc. I was so embarrassed I blushed for a week when I saw SCA's sponsor last edition :(

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Team SCA picked 15 from 250 applicants...

 

 

 

I had a fun conversation with their OBR Anna-Lena last year. We hadn't met before, and when she saw me, she said "oh well, why weren't YOU applying for team SCA?" I said I never even thought of it, I believed you had to have years and years of offshore or professional experience. She then said that they had members with all that, but they were mostly looking for somebody tall who could put on many kilos of muscels - so many of the applicants were simply too tiny and would be too weak.

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Thinking out loud, What if Abu Dhabi came back in, but the sponsor say's "Must have X number of Locals". By their own laws they cant have a mixed crew....

 

Or, Late team entry, you may be forced to take a Less known, lower skilled female as the other teams have all gone 50/50 and gobbled up the best. Simple because going with 7 is not an option.

 

 

 

 

I'm not aware of Abu Dhabi having a law against men and women sailing together... even if it did exist it wouldn't apply outside Abu Dhabi. There's also a strong case that getting women more involved is a bigger $$$ opportunity than keeping sexist sponsors happy. Women are 50% of the worlds population and control many billions of disposable income...

 

As for the "late to the game" argument, that's the same with men anyway, there's a limited pool of potential VOR skippers and navigators, for example. Adding women doesn't change that one bit, teams who snap up talent early had an advantage before and they will have one now.

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The honest truth is that women still do not get opportunities in classes where size and strength are not a vital factor. There are a number of knock on effects, including building experience, but perhaps the biggest issue is the yachtie network.

The women are not spending as much time hanging out at different regattas as the men are. So when a few Sailors talk about who to pull in for a team the girls are not at the forefront of their minds.

Take the Superyacht scene as an example. After the last VOR most of the male Sailors were able to top up their income with rides at the Maxi Worlds or similar. Sometimes on boats where strength is irrelevant because you need hydraulics to move anything. Yet none of the SCA team ended up sailing there, maybe one. So straight after the VOR they all ended up out of work and essentially going back to where they were before.

The Magenta Project was created to try and keep some momentum, and seems to be doing some good, but without VOR legislating in this way we could have ended up with another 10 year gap before women get back to the race.

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As NorBowGirl suggested, I think the secret is a co that caters to both sexes is the key. Look at sporting apparel, reebok, adidas, new balance, Nike , North face, Champion, converse, Asics etc. or what about Garmin , Rayban, .

The market gets bigger quickly I think.

But if the mixed bag doesn't work out and it's still all-girl?

I don't think the all male teams are thinking that they need a sponsor who sells things to men only? So why should a sponsor for a female team do that? Women also buy cars, mobile phones, sports gear, etc. I was so embarrassed I blushed for a week when I saw SCA's sponsor last edition :(

I get it. Al that girly stuff. There is such obvious inequality still in most parts of the world and the on balance the magnitude of what these sailors are doing is exceptional. I just think it would be a great opportunity for the right entity to make a statement about women and equality. Barring feminine hygiene and fashion products, I just don't know which company would be a great fit?

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As NorBowGirl suggested, I think the secret is a co that caters to both sexes is the key. Look at sporting apparel, reebok, adidas, new balance, Nike , North face, Champion, converse, Asics etc. or what about Garmin , Rayban, .

The market gets bigger quickly I think.

But if the mixed bag doesn't work out and it's still all-girl?

I don't think the all male teams are thinking that they need a sponsor who sells things to men only? So why should a sponsor for a female team do that? Women also buy cars, mobile phones, sports gear, etc. I was so embarrassed I blushed for a week when I saw SCA's sponsor last edition :(

I get it. Al that girly stuff. There is such obvious inequality still in most parts of the world and the on balance the magnitude of what these sailors are doing is exceptional. I just think it would be a great opportunity for the right entity to make a statement about women and equality. Barring feminine hygiene and fashion products, I just don't know which company would be a great fit?

 

Nike?

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As NorBowGirl suggested, I think the secret is a co that caters to both sexes is the key. Look at sporting apparel, reebok, adidas, new balance, Nike , North face, Champion, converse, Asics etc. or what about Garmin , Rayban, .

The market gets bigger quickly I think.

But if the mixed bag doesn't work out and it's still all-girl?

I don't think the all male teams are thinking that they need a sponsor who sells things to men only? So why should a sponsor for a female team do that? Women also buy cars, mobile phones, sports gear, etc. I was so embarrassed I blushed for a week when I saw SCA's sponsor last edition :(

I get it. Al that girly stuff. There is such obvious inequality still in most parts of the world and the on balance the magnitude of what these sailors are doing is exceptional. I just think it would be a great opportunity for the right entity to make a statement about women and equality. Barring feminine hygiene and fashion products, I just don't know which company would be a great fit?

 

 

I would love it if a car company sponsored them! Some of them already have women driving the car with their husbands next to them in their commercials, so they already realise that half of their buyers are female. A sponsor who sells to both men and women - now THAT will show pretty good equality :)

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As NorBowGirl suggested, I think the secret is a co that caters to both sexes is the key. Look at sporting apparel, reebok, adidas, new balance, Nike , North face, Champion, converse, Asics etc. or what about Garmin , Rayban, .

The market gets bigger quickly I think.

But if the mixed bag doesn't work out and it's still all-girl?

I don't think the all male teams are thinking that they need a sponsor who sells things to men only? So why should a sponsor for a female team do that? Women also buy cars, mobile phones, sports gear, etc. I was so embarrassed I blushed for a week when I saw SCA's sponsor last edition :(

I get it. Al that girly stuff. There is such obvious inequality still in most parts of the world and the on balance the magnitude of what these sailors are doing is exceptional. I just think it would be a great opportunity for the right entity to make a statement about women and equality. Barring feminine hygiene and fashion products, I just don't know which company would be a great fit?

 

 

I would love it if a car company sponsored them! Some of them already have women driving the car with their husbands next to them in their commercials, so they already realise that half of their buyers are female. A sponsor who sells to both men and women - now THAT will show pretty good equality :)

 

Never going to happen in the VOLVO Ocean Race...

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I would love it if a car company sponsored them! Some of them already have women driving the car with their husbands next to them in their commercials, so they already realise that half of their buyers are female. A sponsor who sells to both men and women - now THAT will show pretty good equality :)

 

Never going to happen in the VOLVO Ocean Race...

 

 

Hahaha. Good point. My brain wasn't working properly, I was silly happy after wednesday night race :D

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Hey there.

 

I didn't see it mentioned in skimming through the discussion of the new male/female crew rules, but I thought I'd read that one of the anticipated benefits of the change was that by promoting mixed crews it would help with the learning curve for top-level women ocean racers if they had the chance to sail with the more-experienced (at this specific type of racing) male crews. I know there are those around here who believe the only thing that prevented SCA from dominating last time around was the evil patriarchal conspiracy that had men calling the shots for their team behind the scenes, or unfair rulings about whether they could replace their FR0 after they blew it up in the Southern Ocean, or some other factor beyond their control. But at least in terms of people who sound rational and informed (like, people who were actually in the race), I heard repeatedly that one of the biggest challenges they faced was that they were simply too inexperienced at fully-crewed professional-level ocean racing on boats like the VOR65. That they would do okay in the wind/sea state/point-of-sail modes they were experienced in, but then they'd hit some new-to-them scenario and lose ground to the more-experienced teams. And honestly, you could see that happening in the tracker again and again throughout the race.

 

Experience matters. The people who dominated in the last race were the people who'd done it multiple times before. Team SCA just didn't have that depth of experience. And sure, they could get it by sailing a bunch more races in women-only crews (assuming they could find sponsorship, which apparently hasn't been easy). But they could get that same experience a lot faster as part of a mixed crew, because they'd have the chance to learn from crewmates who already have that level of experience.

 

(Pre-emptive promise: I'm not going to be drawn into re-litigating all the arguments from last time. Call me out as a big meanie or whatever if you want; I'm not getting into it. I just thought it was worth mentioning that factor as one of the stated benefits for the new rule.)

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This time male teams get up to 2 "free" females, so mixed will be the norm.

One of the explicitly mentioned but so far glossed over aspect is this: Teams can leave one or both females in any port. No need to commit for the whole race, a new decision each leg. So there is really no reason to start as a male team.

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Spoke to a pretty experienced female offshore sailor the other day. Interesting that her view was she was more interested in following the male teams last time around, not Magenta, simply as they were doing things better and were people at the pinnacle in the sport. The correlation between female participation and appealing to the female market might be overstated if there is a lot of ladies around holding that view.

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I would love it if a car company sponsored them! Some of them already have women driving the car with their husbands next to them in their commercials, so they already realise that half of their buyers are female. A sponsor who sells to both men and women - now THAT will show pretty good equality :)

 

Never going to happen in the VOLVO Ocean Race...

Hahaha. Good point. My brain wasn't working properly, I was silly happy after wednesday night race :D

Ok. Fine. I always thought Victoria's Secret would be the best possible sponsor anyway. Imagine the stopovers!

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Spoke to a pretty experienced female offshore sailor the other day. Interesting that her view was she was more interested in following the male teams last time around, not Magenta, simply as they were doing things better and were people at the pinnacle in the sport. The correlation between female participation and appealing to the female market might be overstated if there is a lot of ladies around holding that view.

are you a sailing journalist ? or an offshore racer? wondering what it is you do , since you know so much about the going on's of the ocean racing community.

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I would love it if a car company sponsored them! Some of them already have women driving the car with their husbands next to them in their commercials, so they already realise that half of their buyers are female. A sponsor who sells to both men and women - now THAT will show pretty good equality :)

 

Never going to happen in the VOLVO Ocean Race...

Hahaha. Good point. My brain wasn't working properly, I was silly happy after wednesday night race :D

Ok. Fine. I always thought Victoria's Secret would be the best possible sponsor anyway. Imagine the stopovers!

 

 

Hahahaha, brilliant :) And I believe that both men and female buy their products equally, even though they mostly end up on a woman :) Gosh, it would be a political incorrectness that would actually highlight equality. LOVE IT.

 

(also love their products, of course)

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3rd news item. Boat 8 is under construction.

 

(But not necessarily more boats in next race. WTF?)

 

 

Replacing Vestas?

 

Makes sense.

I can't imagine it would be an easy sell getting a new team to take on that hull.

 

Repaired or not, the boat was almost 100% destroyed when it went up on the sandbar- wouldn't be something I'd want to take around the world.

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Spoke to a pretty experienced female offshore sailor the other day. Interesting that her view was she was more interested in following the male teams last time around, not Magenta, simply as they were doing things better and were people at the pinnacle in the sport. The correlation between female participation and appealing to the female market might be overstated if there is a lot of ladies around holding that view.

It wasn't Magenta at the time, it was SCA...... and could that possibly be because she wasn't one of those that were offered the trip?

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Vestas is still around. Hard to get a total of 8 starters without the Frankenboat.

That said as I understand the videos they have enough prospects but not necessarily signed up 8 teams at this time.

 

 

Next news item is new team bases in the stopover villages, this time centrally organized by VOR. We heard of that before in Cleans Podcast. More uniform look/accessibility, more turnkey.

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A point that has been many times before - the sponsors have little to no interest what the tiny number of professional sailors, or even weekend warrior Corinthian sailors, are interested in following. Indeed if that tiny demographic was well pleased with the offering, they would worry that they were not doing their job properly.

 

What matters is appealing to a demographic that is going to help their bottom line or other ROI objectives. Suck it up - almost nobody here's opinion on what they would like to see of follow in a team matters or is cared about.

 

You might get a better sense of what is needed if you start with trying to convince a non-sailing friend or colleague that the race is interesting and worthy of following.

Even then, some teams are focussed on a sponsor's internal ROI goals.

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A point that has been many times before - the sponsors have little to no interest what the tiny number of professional sailors, or even weekend warrior Corinthian sailors, are interested in following. Indeed if that tiny demographic was well pleased with the offering, they would worry that they were not doing their job properly.

 

What matters is appealing to a demographic that is going to help their bottom line or other ROI objectives. Suck it up - almost nobody here's opinion on what they would like to see of follow in a team matters or is cared about.

 

You might get a better sense of what is needed if you start with trying to convince a non-sailing friend or colleague that the race is interesting and worthy of following.

Even then, some teams are focussed on a sponsor's internal ROI goals.

So FV, respecting your argument here 100%, you have just defined your own opinion and those of SA forum contributors, as completely irrelevant to sponsors! Unless of course you put yourself above the rest of us as the worldly exception to your "almost nobody".

Seems you are suggesting that sailors and people interested in sailing are the last people who could understand what sponsors want to see? So is it a bad call to have a guy very interested in sailing, like Mark Turner for instance, organising the event?

Are you suggesting the event ideally needs to be managed by a marketing executive with no knowledge of the ocean racing scene? .... or what exactly is your recipe for success in securing sponsor support?

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I think this male/female rule is a bit weird. It seems to unnecessarily limit the crew options to these few options. That also includes the sort of weird options of having a crew of 7 female and one or 2 male sailors.

 

Why not simply design the rule like last time, only with different numbers?:

crew of 7, all male

crew of 8, at least 1 female

crew of 9, at least 2 female

crew of 10, at least 5 female

crew of 11, all female

(or something similar)

 

Leaves a lot more options, without ruling any out or making stuff more complicated...

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Interested to see how stopovers turn out with these added into the soup.

 

probably a good idea. the 65's were never good for in-port racing. and also, better to use the time for repairs etc

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Interested to see how stopovers turn out with these added into the soup.

probably a good idea. the 65's were never good for in-port racing. and also, better to use the time for repairs etc

 

 

I understood from the video that the 65s will still be used for the in-port race (stop video at 20s).

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Interested to see how stopovers turn out with these added into the soup.

probably a good idea. the 65's were never good for in-port racing. and also, better to use the time for repairs etc

 

 

I understood from the video that the 65s will still be used for the in-port race (stop video at 20s).

 

From the video and the text announcement, I understood that they want to have few days of just M32 sailing so they can prepare the boats for next leg. And it comes with added bonus for sponsor activites too! Win/Win for everyone, except those few sailors that won't be resting on those days :rolleyes:

Text announcement from front page

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A point that has been many times before - the sponsors have little to no interest what the tiny number of professional sailors, or even weekend warrior Corinthian sailors, are interested in following. Indeed if that tiny demographic was well pleased with the offering, they would worry that they were not doing their job properly.

 

What matters is appealing to a demographic that is going to help their bottom line or other ROI objectives. Suck it up - almost nobody here's opinion on what they would like to see of follow in a team matters or is cared about.

 

You might get a better sense of what is needed if you start with trying to convince a non-sailing friend or colleague that the race is interesting and worthy of following.

Even then, some teams are focussed on a sponsor's internal ROI goals.

So FV, respecting your argument here 100%, you have just defined your own opinion and those of SA forum contributors, as completely irrelevant to sponsors! Unless of course you put yourself above the rest of us as the worldly exception to your "almost nobody".

Seems you are suggesting that sailors and people interested in sailing are the last people who could understand what sponsors want to see? So is it a bad call to have a guy very interested in sailing, like Mark Turner for instance, organising the event?

Are you suggesting the event ideally needs to be managed by a marketing executive with no knowledge of the ocean racing scene? .... or what exactly is your recipe for success in securing sponsor support?

 

 

What I wrote of was really of desires. We can understand what the sponsors want to see. And we should try to. What we have to understand is that we are not the core demographic that they care about when the money hits the surf. Confusing our desires with an opinion on what the sponsors should do is the fallacy. Across this forum we get a range of desires - me, I love the VO-70s, and would really like to consider a MOD-70 variant, and I don't much like the VO-65. But I recognise that if I were in charge of the VOR and followed those desires I would take the VOR under faster than the Kraken. We live in a real world, one of GFC, ROI, and lots of other unpleasant TLAs. So I have deep respect for the forces and decisions that brought about the VO-65, and recognise that it was probably the best (or least worst) decision possible at the time. The direction the VOR has taken isn't my preference, I dislike the pure professional approach, and wish we could see some return of the Corinthian element, but I can't see how to bring it about for the time being. So roll with what you have. The better is the enemy of the good.

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It's interesting you mention corinthian element to the vor. I think the way it is now setup could really lend itself to an owner driver type deal. I'm surprised that none of the tp52 teams are not looking at it.

 

If I had the coin, was running a competitive offshore boat and wanted to step up a level, playing vor never looked so easy. Lease the boat, pay a few sailors and get some serious amateurs or kids. Your good to go. Sails are covered. Boat yard covers the maintenance. Only thing stopping you is time. There must be owners out there who want to do rtw and crewed rather than single handed (ala heerema)

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Assuming the cutoff date for building more than one new boat is fast approaching then that will bring with it some competitive tension to the pool of potential team backers that have yet to commit with the max nos of boats going around being limited to eight. Might also finally flush out any that so far have been silently waiting in the wings.

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There won't be more than 8 boats on the starting line. 7 boat would be good for VOR. Despite all the announcements of operational easiness for sponsors, the bill to pay is still very high. 11-15 Mn EUR for running the team plus the brand activation costs is steep.

 

so far, we have 3 teams confirmed:

 

- Dutch (AkzoNobel)

- Spanish (Mapfre) - confirmed on Spanish press, not officially announced

- Hong-Kong (Dongfeng?) - confirmed via press, not officially announced

 

and several most likely:

- Danish (Vestas?) - Mark Turner has recently reported very successful meetings in Denmark

- US (Charlie/Mark)

- Dutch 2 (Brunel has been very active in client activation in this gap year - maybe together with AkzoNobel?)

- Portuguese - hints on local press

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There won't be more than 8 boats on the starting line. 7 boat would be good for VOR. Despite all the announcements of operational easiness for sponsors, the bill to pay is still very high. 11-15 Mn EUR for running the team plus the brand activation costs is steep.

 

so far, we have 3 teams confirmed:

 

- Dutch (AkzoNobel)

- Spanish (Mapfre) - confirmed on Spanish press, not officially announced

- Hong-Kong (Dongfeng?) - confirmed via press, not officially announced

 

and several most likely:

- Danish (Vestas?) - Mark Turner has recently reported very successful meetings in Denmark

- US (Charlie/Mark)

- Dutch 2 (Brunel has been very active in client activation in this gap year - maybe together with AkzoNobel?)

- Portuguese - hints on local press

 

 

Compared to the Vendee Globe the VOR is bordering on extinction. There has to be a lesson learned somewhere here. How about racing on older boats and allowing for some form of handicap or class division?

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There won't be more than 8 boats on the starting line. 7 boat would be good for VOR. Despite all the announcements of operational easiness for sponsors, the bill to pay is still very high. 11-15 Mn EUR for running the team plus the brand activation costs is steep.

 

so far, we have 3 teams confirmed:

 

- Dutch (AkzoNobel)

- Spanish (Mapfre) - confirmed on Spanish press, not officially announced

- Hong-Kong (Dongfeng?) - confirmed via press, not officially announced

 

and several most likely:

- Danish (Vestas?) - Mark Turner has recently reported very successful meetings in Denmark

- US (Charlie/Mark)

- Dutch 2 (Brunel has been very active in client activation in this gap year - maybe together with AkzoNobel?)

- Portuguese - hints on local press

 

Are we sure that team Hong Kong will have anything to do with the former Dong Feng?

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There won't be more than 8 boats on the starting line. 7 boat would be good for VOR. Despite all the announcements of operational easiness for sponsors, the bill to pay is still very high. 11-15 Mn EUR for running the team plus the brand activation costs is steep.

 

so far, we have 3 teams confirmed:

 

- Dutch (AkzoNobel)

- Spanish (Mapfre) - confirmed on Spanish press, not officially announced

- Hong-Kong (Dongfeng?) - confirmed via press, not officially announced

 

and several most likely:

- Danish (Vestas?) - Mark Turner has recently reported very successful meetings in Denmark

- US (Charlie/Mark)

- Dutch 2 (Brunel has been very active in client activation in this gap year - maybe together with AkzoNobel?)

- Portuguese - hints on local press

 

Are we sure that team Hong Kong will have anything to do with the former Dong Feng?

 

 

 

Not at all. Just a guess, since two Chinese teams sounds like one too many. The HK folks have not mentioned any sponsor, I reckon, so DF jumping in sounds like a plausible solution.

 

Handicap class with old boats/maxis would definitely boost participation. Biggest issue would be logistical and operational... the stopovers would need to be way longer

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There won't be more than 8 boats on the starting line. 7 boat would be good for VOR. Despite all the announcements of operational easiness for sponsors, the bill to pay is still very high. 11-15 Mn EUR for running the team plus the brand activation costs is steep.

 

so far, we have 3 teams confirmed:

 

- Dutch (AkzoNobel)

- Spanish (Mapfre) - confirmed on Spanish press, not officially announced

- Hong-Kong (Dongfeng?) - confirmed via press, not officially announced

 

and several most likely:

- Danish (Vestas?) - Mark Turner has recently reported very successful meetings in Denmark

- US (Charlie/Mark)

- Dutch 2 (Brunel has been very active in client activation in this gap year - maybe together with AkzoNobel?)

- Portuguese - hints on local press

Are we sure that team Hong Kong will have anything to do with the former Dong Feng?

Would have thought the new and 8th boat being built by Persico is ear marked for HK team as part of the HK stopover deal.

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Would have thought the new and 8th boat being built by Persico is ear marked for HK team as part of the HK stopover deal.

 

One would bet that any new team entering would have leverage to exert in getting the new boat. But if the new team is cash strapped, it might have to settle for one of the older ones. (Despite what is probably the best efforts by the Boatyard to level the field.) Hard to second guess what is happening.

 

Given DongFeng are part Volvo owned, any HK team is probably is separate miracle. I'm sure the VOR management would be ecstatic if they didn't need to press the company team into service again to make up numbers. But I bet they do.

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I thought that the Vestas was a new build. From the reports I saw, In the end they threw away the wreck as beyond repair and built a new boat? So not a Frankenboat.

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