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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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QBF

Transat Jacques Vabre - 2015

746 posts in this topic

sorry to hear of O Canada's mast problem. Can't be fun up there in the cross seas.

 

In the rankings on the TJV site, what period of time is used for "Average" ?

 

Ranking for Ciela Village (Thierry Bouchard - Oliver Krauss) shows “average” of 4.70 for the leading multi 50. In 2nd, “average” is 16.90.

 

The rankings xls files show ">=15' /PtaPt" which translates as . . . more than 15 minute point to point average?

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BP8 is on a charge at the moment. A couple of knots faster than the other boats in the leading bunch. Let's hope they can keep it all together

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Bastide-Otio sailing to Cascais. Adopteunskipper made a strange left turn. Not sure what their intentions are. PRB and BP8 in the lead. Looks like BP8 is a little faster most of the time.

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I'm really amazed that Actual in the Ultime div, is so very far off of the pace,(705 miles behind)

 

I see they chose to go the other way, but they sure seem to be unusually slow.

 

The Ex Sodebo, is a proven design, I wonder if they did any mods to her.

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I'm really amazed that Actual in the Ultime div, is so very far off of the pace,(705 miles behind)

 

I see they chose to go the other way, but they sure seem to be unusually slow.

 

The Ex Sodebo, is a proven design, I wonder if they did any mods to her.

And as of now Actual is pointing at Gibraltar which is not a good sign. The Imocas are fascinating. BPVIII is about .8 kts faster than PRB on a reach to broad reach if the wind arrows are right. And they look to be in a bit lighter conditions so presumably they're less in survival mode.

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I'm really amazed that Actual in the Ultime div, is so very far off of the pace,(705 miles behind)

 

I see they chose to go the other way, but they sure seem to be unusually slow.

 

The Ex Sodebo, is a proven design, I wonder if they did any mods to her.

 

And as of now Actual is pointing at Gibraltar which is not a good sign. The Imocas are fascinating. BPVIII is about .8 kts faster than PRB on a reach to broad reach if the wind arrows are right. And they look to be in a bit lighter conditions so presumably they're less in survival mode.

According to TJV FB Actual have some technical problem.

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How much of the speed from PB VIII is from the top crew, or the boat? Le Cleach and Tabarly are killing them atm, yet the other mustached IMOCA is way back.

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Yes Actual is coming back :

"

A 5h00 ce vendredi matin, Yves le Blevec, skipper de l'Ultim Actual, et son co-skipper Jean-Baptiste le Vaillant, informaient la Direction de course de la Transat Jacques Vabre de problèmes techniques. Actual progressait alors dans des conditions maniables, vent de travers par 20 à 25 noeuds.

Actual fait route vers les côtes européennes à la vitesse de 7 noeuds dans un vent d'ouest - sud ouest. Les deux hommes vont bien."

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How much of the speed from PB VIII is from the top crew, or the boat? Le Cleach and Tabarly are killing them atm, yet the other mustached IMOCA is way back.

The PRB crew is quite top-notch, so should be fair to compare to BP8. Seems like BP8 is 1-2 knots faster most of the time. Vibac lost quite a lot of ground before heading south, so not sailing in the same winds.

 

Team Adopteunskipper is heading to port. Problem with lower part of running backstay

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Virbac broke some structural stuff

 

Down to one mustache boat...

 

Can't figure out what the Canadians are doing? Did they decide to go in and then change their mind?

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BPVIII (476) put 30+ miles on PRB (445) over the last 24hours. Moustache uber alles?

 

Why is Hugo Boss faffing around off Finisterre instead of heading into a harbor?

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Virbac broke some structural stuff

 

Down to one mustache boat...

 

Can't figure out what the Canadians are doing? Did they decide to go in and then change their mind?

 

Edit: HB is also going almost straight west. Seems like there are pretty heavy winds right now closer to shore. So maybe they're just trying to avoid the worst of conditions to an already damaged boat

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BPVIII (476) put 30+ miles on PRB (445) over the last 24hours. Moustache uber alles?

 

Why is Hugo Boss faffing around off Finisterre instead of heading into a harbor?

Surprised and pleased BP8 has held up so well. Figured they would be a front runner but with Safran out which is the boat longest in the water and hence in theory the most sorted if not the fastest, I wonder what BP has done differently in their build. Certainly going slower didn't work (HB and Virbac).

Its also a shame that all the new boats are VLVP. Would have been good to see some really different ideas being built instead of close variations.

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They are minus two stringers in the sail locker area. Well, who needs those anyway. ;)

 

23296_1_FR_600_500.jpg

 

 

I wonder if HB may have similar damage. They are way slow ever since their stop and seem to be going back out for the last 2h. Hove to again in 20+ kts? Obviously something major.

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Dick (St Michel Virebac) on today’s radio session :

 

[…] There is clearly a structural problem with these boats; the different withdrawals of our competitors rather confirm this. […]

 

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/sites/default/files/audio/son/stmichelvirbac_jpd_20151030_e.mp3

 

Yup, I guess that in this attrition we should talk about the "2015 Imocas" and not the "moustache" boats.

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Canadians are sailing east again. Apparently only crap tacking angles.

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BPVIII (476) put 30+ miles on PRB (445) over the last 24hours. Moustache uber alles?

 

Why is Hugo Boss faffing around off Finisterre instead of heading into a harbor?

Surprised and pleased BP8 has held up so well. Figured they would be a front runner but with Safran out which is the boat longest in the water and hence in theory the most sorted if not the fastest, I wonder what BP has done differently in their build. Certainly going slower didn't work (HB and Virbac).

Its also a shame that all the new boats are VLVP. Would have been good to see some really different ideas being built instead of close variations.

 

 

Not "VLVP", they are VPLP/Verdier designs, because these two names have utterly dominated in Open 60 (and multihull) design for the past 5 years. I have a call in to them to discuss the breakages, probably will have to wait until after the race finish for details.

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It's not surprising after what Alex said about the thickness of the monocoque construction in the pounding areas. He even said if it doesn't break they built it too heavy.

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They are minus two stringers in the sail locker area. Well, who needs those anyway. ;)

 

23296_1_FR_600_500.jpg

 

 

I wonder if HB may have similar damage. They are way slow ever since their stop and seem to be going back out for the last 2h. Hove to again in 20+ kts? Obviously something major.

 

Where'd that pic come from chasm

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They are minus two stringers in the sail locker area. Well, who needs those anyway. ;)

 

23296_1_FR_600_500.jpg

 

 

I wonder if HB may have similar damage. They are way slow ever since their stop and seem to be going back out for the last 2h. Hove to again in 20+ kts? Obviously something major.

 

Where'd that pic come from chasm

 

 

based on the watermark I would guess it came from the team... der

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BPVIII (476) put 30+ miles on PRB (445) over the last 24hours. Moustache uber alles?

 

Why is Hugo Boss faffing around off Finisterre instead of heading into a harbor?

Surprised and pleased BP8 has held up so well. Figured they would be a front runner but with Safran out which is the boat longest in the water and hence in theory the most sorted if not the fastest, I wonder what BP has done differently in their build. Certainly going slower didn't work (HB and Virbac).

Its also a shame that all the new boats are VLVP. Would have been good to see some really different ideas being built instead of close variations.

 

 

Not "VLVP", they are VPLP/Verdier designs, because these two names have utterly dominated in Open 60 (and multihull) design for the past 5 years. I have a call in to them to discuss the breakages, probably will have to wait until after the race finish for details.

 

 

Then again the Ker designed Open 40 Concise doesn't have a much better track record and it's a boat with fixed keel and no daggerboards

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They are minus two stringers in the sail locker area. Well, who needs those anyway. ;)

 

23296_1_FR_600_500.jpg

 

 

I wonder if HB may have similar damage. They are way slow ever since their stop and seem to be going back out for the last 2h. Hove to again in 20+ kts? Obviously something major.

 

Where'd that pic come from chasm

 

 

 

I've linked it from Jan-Pierre Dick website, Lars pointed to the article one post above mine:

http://www.jpdick.com/fr/actualites/escale-technique-dans-l-archipel-de-madere.html

(Hmm, pic now removed there.)

 

Same content is also available on the TJV site in high res

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/fr/st-michelvirbac-escale-technique-dans-larchipel-de-madere

 

Lets attach a copy of that here: (My filename, "download.jpg" was not that descriptive.)

post-106437-0-80951600-1446216726_thumb.jpg

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Virbac broke some structural stuff

 

Down to one mustache boat...

 

Can't figure out what the Canadians are doing? Did they decide to go in and then change their mind?

 

They were heading in to try to fix a main sail track, that was damaged around the 2nd reef.

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Macif has now passed Sodebo and is sailing both faster and deeper...interesting

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Thanks Chasm. I was pretty enamored with those ribs in the boat tour I did (that the HB sound guy fucked up completely!)...clearly they were not quite up to the task...note that the actual hull in between those ribs is like 4mm thick....

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Macif has now passed Sodebo and is sailing both faster and deeper...interesting

Looking at Volodia and 36 hours into the future it seems like west is best. I think they will go as far west as possible to cross the doldrums. Maybe that´s why Sodebo is pointing higher and more west

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Back to the race...

 

These two are doing particularly well given a decent boat. Initiatives-Coeur is currently in fifth position, some 180 nm DTL.

 

post-58072-0-80816400-1446218066_thumb.jpg

post-58072-0-77476700-1446218690_thumb.jpg

 

I really like the two, especially since Sam's video blog from her first Vendee and of course the VOR. Remember Tanguy's legendary "Smoke On The Water"performance :-) Good to the them competitive. From what I saw in Le Havre Initiatives-Coeur was by far the sponsor with the most activation - red team jackets everywhere between the watching crowds.

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Thanks Chasm. I was pretty enamored with those ribs in the boat tour I did (that the HB sound guy fucked up completely!)...clearly they were not quite up to the task...note that the actual hull in between those ribs is like 4mm thick....

 

That looks like what I had heard about Safran before the start "paper thin skin on multiple ribs"

 

Not heard direct reports on engineering of the 3 others .

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Dick (St Michel Virebac) on today’s radio session :

 

[…] There is clearly a structural problem with these boats; the different withdrawals of our competitors rather confirm this. […]

 

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/sites/default/files/audio/son/stmichelvirbac_jpd_20151030_e.mp3

 

Yup, I guess that in this attrition we should talk about the "2015 Imocas" and not the "moustache" boats.

 

 

I guess this text from the TJV website is the english translation:

 

Jean Pierre Dick, skipper of StMichel-Virbac (IMOCA)

"We’re taking a detour on our way to Brazil. There were gale force winds in the night. 30 knots, so quite a lot of wind. We had reduced the sail with three reefs and the small jib, the G3. I went out and checked the structure of the mast in the night. Everything was fine, but then I noticed some structural elements were beginning to break. We took the decision to put the brakes on. We’ll be putting into Madeira. To avoid damaging the boat, the sail is being used as a counterweight. We’re feeling really down. It had to happen to us. Clearly there is a structural problem with the boat (we can see that by looking at the other competitors). We don’t really know what to do. We’re in talks with the designers. The hull has been weakened with all the impact, so there is definitely a problem. You can push the boat, you fly, but on the other hand, there is the harsh reality, when we see competitors retiring. We can see there is a potential problem. I’m telling you I’ve got my foot on the brake. We’re going to try to understand what’s happened, carry out repairs and set off again. It’s really spoilt the enjoyment, but we’re used to taking this sort of thing.”

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What was the previous name of the Tanguy and Sam's boat? It's at least 8 years old, no?

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Back to the race...

 

These two are doing particularly well given a decent boat. Initiatives-Coeur is currently in fifth position, some 180 nm DTL.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0916.jpg

attachicon.gifDSC03520.jpg

 

I really like the two, especially since Sam's video blog from her first Vendee and of course the VOR. Remember Tanguy's legendary "Smoke On The Water"performance :-) Good to the them competitive. From what I saw in Le Havre Initiatives-Coeur was by far the sponsor with the most activation - red team jackets everywhere between the watching crowds.

 

Activation AND press, and that's because Sam is by far the biggest draw in this fleet, and the SCA trip has only increased her value. love that girl!

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I really like the two, especially since Sam's video blog from her first Vendee and of course the VOR. Remember Tanguy's legendary "Smoke On The Water"performance :-) Good to the them competitive. From what I saw in Le Havre Initiatives-Coeur was by far the sponsor with the most activation - red team jackets everywhere between the watching crowds.

 

SCNR. let me google that for you. enjoy :-)

 

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it is as it is today. This boat has to pull the chestnuts out of the fire for the 2015 IMOCAs.

 

post-58072-0-39228000-1446221912_thumb.jpg

post-58072-0-20464200-1446221927_thumb.jpg

post-58072-0-15689000-1446222719_thumb.jpg

post-58072-0-46738400-1446222733_thumb.jpg

 

Will they make it, or break it? Quite a burden for Armel and Erwan.

 

One observation from Le Havre - They seemed to be the best prepared and most professional team, almost clinical, cold. Everybody was doing some last minute preps except Team Banque Pop. The boat was well jacketed, waiting for the things to come.

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Thanks Chasm. I was pretty enamored with those ribs in the boat tour I did (that the HB sound guy fucked up completely!)...clearly they were not quite up to the task...note that the actual hull in between those ribs is like 4mm thick....

 

Try less than 3mm...

The 2008 generation of Verdier and Finot boats were already between 4 and 5mm between the similarly built, but wider spaced, longitudinal stringers.

Still the concept is definitely the most efficient, if there's enough carbon...

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Back to the race...

 

These two are doing particularly well given a decent boat. Initiatives-Coeur is currently in fifth position, some 180 nm DTL.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0916.jpg

attachicon.gifDSC03520.jpg

 

I really like the two, especially since Sam's video blog from her first Vendee and of course the VOR. Remember Tanguy's legendary "Smoke On The Water"performance :-) Good to the them competitive. From what I saw in Le Havre Initiatives-Coeur was by far the sponsor with the most activation - red team jackets everywhere between the watching crowds.

 

Activation AND press, and that's because Sam is by far the biggest draw in this fleet, and the SCA trip has only increased her value. love that girl!

 

This was the Sam clip which was the best for me!

https://youtu.be/6foNSisJvFs

...also "Girls just wanna have fun". I have a copy but I think it got pulled from the web (performing rights!?)

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BP had the fastest last 24 hours, including the big tri's. Boat seems to be in its element now.

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No problem.

On the high res version a hull crease is visible next to the upper stringer crack. Not really a surprise after the stringers went but definitely not cool. Way to easy to see the escalation after that.

 

We obviously don't have information about all the damaged boats, yet it seems like the hulls are the weak point for the 2015 generation. Did they go to far in the quest to reduce the boat weight as close as possible to the older generation?

Everyone laughs at the problems SOH had, yet they made it somehow through the BWR.

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What's happened to V and B (Class 40)? They were looking interesting with Le Conservateur yesterday. Now ~46nm directly behind.

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No problem.

On the high res version a hull crease is visible next to the upper stringer crack. Not really a surprise after the stringers went but definitely not cool. Way to easy to see the escalation after that.

 

We obviously don't have information about all the damaged boats, yet it seems like the hulls are the weak point for the 2015 generation. Did they go to far in the quest to reduce the boat weight as close as possible to the older generation?

Everyone laughs at the problems SOH had, yet they made it somehow through the BWR.

Yeah but how many days and thousands of miles behind

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No problem.

On the high res version a hull crease is visible next to the upper stringer crack. Not really a surprise after the stringers went but definitely not cool. Way to easy to see the escalation after that.

 

We obviously don't have information about all the damaged boats, yet it seems like the hulls are the weak point for the 2015 generation. Did they go to far in the quest to reduce the boat weight as close as possible to the older generation?

Everyone laughs at the problems SOH had, yet they made it somehow through the BWR.

 

This is a smart ass comment, but of course the hulls are failing now. The keels and rigs aren't breaking anymore... Now the hulls have to survive the continuous and ever faster punishment they previously avoided due to other failures.

 

Sure curious what is up with HB. It would seem they are nursing the boat, going the wrong direction, to avoid a catastrophe. My speculation is they are at risk of a major failure somewhere and are crossing their fingers they can make it to port before the major failure happens. :(

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No problem.

On the high res version a hull crease is visible next to the upper stringer crack. Not really a surprise after the stringers went but definitely not cool. Way to easy to see the escalation after that.

 

We obviously don't have information about all the damaged boats, yet it seems like the hulls are the weak point for the 2015 generation. Did they go to far in the quest to reduce the boat weight as close as possible to the older generation?

Everyone laughs at the problems SOH had, yet they made it somehow through the BWR.

Yeah but how many days and thousands of miles behind

 

 

Still better than a DNF, no?

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For sure Safran (dagger case) and Virbac face structural damage, probably Hugo Boss too.

but Banque pop 8 is 100% sister ship of Safran and is right...

Gitana face problems only on rigg and sail as far I know.

 

Anyway first learning is confirmed, BP8 in 20-25 knots downwind and clean sea is 10% faster, if, till arrival they take benefit of such weather during 4 days , they can count on a global gain of 140 miles ( 35 miles/day) or more.

Let see if it's enough to compensate any breakage, bad option or too much upwind in light wind for a final win.

My bet is, it's yes.

If moustache imoca clear their reliability issue in the futur , they might become untouchable.

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No problem.

On the high res version a hull crease is visible next to the upper stringer crack. Not really a surprise after the stringers went but definitely not cool. Way to easy to see the escalation after that.

 

We obviously don't have information about all the damaged boats, yet it seems like the hulls are the weak point for the 2015 generation. Did they go to far in the quest to reduce the boat weight as close as possible to the older generation?

Everyone laughs at the problems SOH had, yet they made it somehow through the BWR.

Yeah, but don't forget SoH had her share of problems last year on her first trip to New York. The delamination was so serious, that she had to be shipped back to Europe aboard a freight-ship. Later most of the outer skin of the hull was cut away, recored and relaminated. Since Fa designed this boat, he probably did not have all the high tech background that VPLP had to create a so delicate design. This may well become an advantage now.

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[...]

Everyone laughs at the problems SOH had, yet they made it somehow through the BWR.

Yeah but how many days and thousands of miles behind

 

Days if not weeks behind, can't be bothered to check. :D

Major build issues with wrong coring installed, but also significant rule problems. They just made the BWR start (and probably every inspection on the way to it) with major last minute work of all hands. An untried team which lost important sails in the beginning. Finished with a zippered mast and several sheared of (again!) keel bolts. - I'd say for all practical purposes a no (real) budget entry. Still they made it to the end.

 

Would be nice if they were a bit faster this time, but they are rolling up the fleet from behind once more.

 

[i still like the idea of a cheapish current rules boat which is completive against the old boats in the fleet. Simply to to open up some additional options for smaller campaigns. Few have the ability to finance a new high tech boat. Unfortunately SOH does not really fit that bracket.]

 

 

Hugo Boss still looks like something major went wrong. As far as the tracker goes wind is down to ~16kts and they are still going with ~3kts in the wrong direction. Call it 140+nm to Spain, this is going to take a while.

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What's happened to V and B (Class 40)? They were looking interesting with Le Conservateur yesterday. Now ~46nm directly behind.

 

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/fr/message-de-v-and-b-class40 Seems like they had some minor technical problem that they managed to sort out. Also co-pilot hurt his back. Neither my French nor the google translation were good enough

 

Also Eärendil appears to be out.

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No problem.

On the high res version a hull crease is visible next to the upper stringer crack. Not really a surprise after the stringers went but definitely not cool. Way to easy to see the escalation after that.

 

We obviously don't have information about all the damaged boats, yet it seems like the hulls are the weak point for the 2015 generation. Did they go to far in the quest to reduce the boat weight as close as possible to the older generation?

Everyone laughs at the problems SOH had, yet they made it somehow through the BWR.

Yeah but how many days and thousands of miles behind

 

 

Still better than a DNF, no?

 

I don't disagree. There have always been journeymen around the edges esp. in the RTW races, not competing to win but in it for the adventure.

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What's happened to V and B (Class 40)? They were looking interesting with Le Conservateur yesterday. Now ~46nm directly behind.

 

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/fr/message-de-v-and-b-class40 Seems like they had some minor technical problem that they managed to sort out. Also co-pilot hurt his back. Neither my French nor the google translation were good enough

 

Also Eärendil appears to be out.

 

Missed that one on the TJV site. thanks. Hope they get back in it.

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More pics from Le Havre (before it's too late). My airbnb host failed to hand write a 64 character long wifi code, and myself failed to notice the free wifi inside the le havre docks mall :-o otherwise I could have posted them in time.

 

Who is this?

 

post-58072-0-65960900-1446233605_thumb.jpg

 

Okay, okay, way too easy, given the context. But still ...

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What's happened to V and B (Class 40)? They were looking interesting with Le Conservateur yesterday. Now ~46nm directly behind.

 

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/fr/message-de-v-and-b-class40 Seems like they had some minor technical problem that they managed to sort out. Also co-pilot hurt his back. Neither my French nor the google translation were good enough

 

 

 

I'll give it a go :-)
Hello everyone,
A really rough night with gusts over 40 knots, we think as without wind instruments difficult to gauge. We spent the night trying to pace ourselves to preserve the gear so no headsail and 2 reefs in the main! All very uncomfortable all the same for we copped some big waves. In the early morning we unfurled the staysail but after barely an hour or so the tack let go. We lost quite a lot of miles during the repair.
Notwithstanding the above the morale on board is very good, Sam and I get on very well.
However when I tried to take some photos & video I slipped and fell and did some major damage to my lower back Result no pictures or videos but quite a lot of pain to my lower back, limiting my movement and forcing me to rest for the moment. That will be hurting for the best part of a week :-(
I wasn't joking when I said that life would be difficult, it is all out war here and I have the battle scars to show for it. I'm black and blue all over.
We are now straight lining it to the South. The barometer is going up, now 1013 HPA, this means that we are pulling away from the low-pressure system! Cooool!
See you soon on board Class 40 V and B "

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What's happened to V and B (Class 40)? They were looking interesting with Le Conservateur yesterday. Now ~46nm directly behind.

 

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/fr/message-de-v-and-b-class40 Seems like they had some minor technical problem that they managed to sort out. Also co-pilot hurt his back. Neither my French nor the google translation were good enough

 

Also Eärendil appears to be out.

 

 

Major bummer about Eärendil. Brand new boat for Catherine, I was really looking forward to what she could do in this race with a modern boat.

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Nicolas and Ryan from adoptunskipper where the last of the IMOCA fleet to dock out.

 

post-58072-0-05830900-1446234758_thumb.jpg

post-58072-0-95497800-1446234773_thumb.jpg

 

I'm quite sure Ryan was the only sailor wearing flip flops that morning ;-) Too bad for them to miss the real barefoot sailing conditions ahead of the fleet right now.

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#354 Thanks, the google translation was in fact good enough. Have to learn some more English :)

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What's happened to V and B (Class 40)? They were looking interesting with Le Conservateur yesterday. Now ~46nm directly behind.

 

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/fr/message-de-v-and-b-class40 Seems like they had some minor technical problem that they managed to sort out. Also co-pilot hurt his back. Neither my French nor the google translation were good enough

 

Also Eärendil appears to be out.

Major bummer about Eärendil. Brand new boat for Catherine, I was really looking forward to what she could do in this race with a modern boat.

Well, she was doing quite well until this. Love the boat name! We had the same on a previous boat.

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The multis. For me the main reason to visit le havre. I just can't get enough of them. Le Havre was the first opportunity to see the new Macif and "Sodebo ultime" boats. Also, I had never seen PdB and Actual (the former sodebo) before. Though Macif and Sodebo are quite similar in size, the latter looks bigger and solid (in contrast to it's modern successor. Somehow you get used to these giant boats, especially if you have ever seen the largest of them all (now spindrift 2). Compared to SP2,which is somewhat out-of-this-world, they all look neat and tiny.

 

Otherwise it is the same old vs new (foil, or nor foil) battle like in the IMOCA class.

 

Here is a close-up of the macif t-rudder and foil. What might be the reason to only build one? Do they really ran out of time, or are they so unsure if the thing is effective, that they want to test ride a single one, kinda like gitana did with their modified MOD70? Isn't it even more dangerous to go without (tendency to pitchpole) ?

 

post-58072-0-45845100-1446237538_thumb.jpg

 

and here again, in contrast to the conventional curved daggerboard of sodebo:

 

post-58072-0-95975000-1446237525_thumb.jpg

 

The cocpit of macif looks very futuristic and optimised for short handed usage. I wonder what the height under that roof is and if a tall guy (say > 1.90 m) could stand upright. Given the size of french multihull pros, probably not a part of the design brief ;-)

 

post-58072-0-11552600-1446237512_thumb.jpg

 

The multi 50 class seemed not very vibrant. No new boats. Only one of them had straight daggerboards, the others none at all. Is there some class rule limiting the development of these boats?

 

Lot's of history and heros (boats and sailors). Kinda OT, but for me the reason to go, not so much the race by itself.

 

- Actual (former Sodebo) and Thomas Coeville: Did two attempts to smash the single handed Jule Verne record ... he wanted it so much. Here is the epic video of his almost capsize. The RdR desaster. If anyone deserves to win this race, then Thomas.

 

- Pascal Bidégorry - Still holds the Transatlantic and 24H Record with BP5, but still has not rounded cape horn while racing. This time he teams up with a winner.

 

Who is going to make it? Macif currently in 1st ....

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23296_1_FR_600_500.jpg

 

.

Bonding flanges on those stringers look way to small. Looks neat but not a good place to save weight.

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Sam and Tanguy up to fourth in class and sixth overall, pretty impressive in an old boat. May yet move up more. GO SAM/TAN GO!!!!!

 

I wish she would reconsider the VG next year, maybe this will be enough to get her to go for it.


Ideas of why the Daily Motion videos don't play on my somewhat older iMac or iPad?

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SMA out with structural problems in the keel region. Which boat was it before it became SMA?

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Sam and Tanguy up to fourth in class and sixth overall, pretty impressive in an old boat. May yet move up more. GO SAM/TAN GO!!!!!

 

I wish she would reconsider the VG next year, maybe this will be enough to get her to go for it.

Ideas of why the Daily Motion videos don't play on my somewhat older iMac or iPad?

No money, and no boat make sit a pretty simple decision for Sam. Plus, she was debating this race as she wants to spend some time with her son. I think she is the official stand in for Tanguy, should he be pushed down a flight of stairs ;)

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Sam and Tanguy up to fourth in class and sixth overall, pretty impressive in an old boat. May yet move up more. GO SAM/TAN GO!!!!!

 

I wish she would reconsider the VG next year, maybe this will be enough to get her to go for it.

Ideas of why the Daily Motion videos don't play on my somewhat older iMac or iPad?

The older iMac's have difficulty with certain types of video compression.

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Ah. Time for the good old "He was so drunk that he fell down the emergency stairs outside the back of the club. All four flights. Three times." bouncer story. :ph34r:

 

When does the next VG start again? Call it 12 months and a week.

Even if Sam had a sudden influx of sponsor money that is not much time to find a boat and the team to prepare it. A second breakage in a row would not help, and I doubt that that competing as an also ran on a cheap old boat is in the cards. She has the fire to compete at the top end. (Of the previous rule boats, Mustache No.6 has apparently been sold to NL and no time to get another one.)

But hey, maybe there are some cheap priced to sell mustache boats available soon. ;) Just need to find a way to make them not fall apart.

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The multi 50 class seemed not very vibrant. No new boats. Only one of them had straight daggerboards, the others none at all. Is there some class rule limiting the development of these boats?

 

Lars,

 

Check this out http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/en/multi-50

 

Multi 50 class does not allow vertical lift daggerboards to save some money, but it seems a bit ridiculous nowadays considering the benefit of curvy boards. What is the actual cost difference between strait and say basic continuos curve C-boards?

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SMA out with structural problems in the keel region. Which boat was it before it became SMA?

If I understood correctly, it wasn't a structural problem, but an issue with the trailing edge of the fin that is of some kind of composite material. This caused a lot of vibrations and noise at top speeds, so they had to slow down and didn't find it meaningful to continue racing, as they anyway had to fix the keel asap to continue with the preparations for the VG

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Sam and Tanguy up to fourth in class and sixth overall, pretty impressive in an old boat. May yet move up more. GO SAM/TAN GO!!!!!

 

I wish she would reconsider the VG next year, maybe this will be enough to get her to go for it.

Ideas of why the Daily Motion videos don't play on my somewhat older iMac or iPad?

No money, and no boat make sit a pretty simple decision for Sam. Plus, she was debating this race as she wants to spend some time with her son. I think she is the official stand in for Tanguy, should he be pushed down a flight of stairs ;)

 

Didn't Armel cut his hand really badly in a freak car washing accident which allowed Loick to come in and win the RdR? Stranger things have happened. It would be about walking into a top program like that for Sam to be competitive and and the VG would definitely be better for it.

 

The leading Ultimes have been swapping places all day. I can imagine Macif has the foiling board for port tack so every time they're on port they take off and every time they gybe Sodebo takes over. Probably not actually that but it would be funny. Good to see them going all VOR on us despite being different designs.

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23296_1_FR_600_500.jpg

 

.

Bonding flanges on those stringers look way to small. Looks neat but not a good place to save weight.

Seems like the rib broke and then the flange. If the flange failed first, the rib could twist to relieve strain.

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Nigel Irens reckoned the ORMA 60 boats were too rigid to be seaworthy back in 2005, when the class imploded. I got the chance to ask him whether he thought the same was true of the IMOCAs a couple of years later, and his reply suggested that they might be.

 

I wonder if rather than pushing lightness and rigidity, going for a carbon hull with a foam core would be a more robust option. The boats would gain a bit of weight, but be less likely to fall apart mid-Atlantic.

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For sure Safran (dagger case) and Virbac face structural damage, probably Hugo Boss too.

but Banque pop 8 is 100% sister ship of Safran and is right...

Gitana face problems only on rigg and sail as far I know.

 

Anyway first learning is confirmed, BP8 in 20-25 knots downwind and clean sea is 10% faster, if, till arrival they take benefit of such weather during 4 days , they can count on a global gain of 140 miles ( 35 miles/day) or more.

Let see if it's enough to compensate any breakage, bad option or too much upwind in light wind for a final win.

My bet is, it's yes.

If moustache imoca clear their reliability issue in the futur , they might become untouchable.

 

Is it ?

 

Sure they are coming from the same mould and the same yard (CDK) but, are boats with different engineering sisterships ?

 

There is very little info (at least to me) on who did what for who in this respect; except that for Safran, the Safran group claims that 1- they supervised the engineering 2- they supplied proprietary carbon-fibre.

 

B.Pop team have been building / moding more one-off boats than anybody else in the recent years, what was their technical team input ?

Gitana has deeply drawn into Groupama team technicians and isknown to use several outside contacts with two projects ongoing.

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Drag race between Sodebo and Macif, both at 29 knots, 36 nm apart, Sodebo 5 behind.

 

OTOH, Sam and Tanguy will have to patch up the transom.

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Drag race between Sodebo and Macif, both at 29 knots, 36 nm apart, Sodebo 5 behind.

 

 

 

Sodebo might have a small advantage, as they will have a better TWA, when they get further south

 

From Concise 2:

 

"The last 4 days have been tough on board Concise 2. We have been through 3 low pressures, one of which was not in the forecast and the wave height has not helped us either."

 

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/en/concise-2s-philippa

 

Edit: here's the link to rudder/transom damage on IC: http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/en/rudder-problems-initatives-coeur

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The Open 40 SNBSM is making a pit stop in Madeira due to damaged mast track.

 

Neither O Canada nor HB have reached Vigo. Seems like an impossible task. Probably both boats have suffered more severe damages than has been reported

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As far as i have read, seems most of the problems arouse on the new boats, are caused by slamming conditions. If one of the new ones wins the race, I doubt, IMHO, they would be able to run around the globe next year, considering they would be exposed to much severe conditions. They would have to review the whole thing. Again IMHO

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The Open 40 SNBSM is making a pit stop in Madeira due to damaged mast track.

 

Neither O Canada nor HB have reached Vigo. Seems like an impossible task. Probably both boats have suffered more severe damages than has been reported

I think sailing upwind isn't going to happen for them until conditions turn a bit more in their favour.

 

Has there been any report from Hugo Boss on what exactly the damage is?

It worries me a little that they've been so quiet. The other new 60s have been really open with their problems.

Makes me think that there's worse damge afoot than they are letting on.

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The 12 month window to the VG is now suddenly looking very slim. I imagine there are resource constraints, limited yard slots available etc for having serious modifications made and then go out and get some miles under their belts beforehand. If so a recipe for some of these guys starting rather undercooked in one race that rewards that with a lot of grief.

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For sure Safran (dagger case) and Virbac face structural damage, probably Hugo Boss too.

but Banque pop 8 is 100% sister ship of Safran and is right...

Gitana face problems only on rigg and sail as far I know.

 

Anyway first learning is confirmed, BP8 in 20-25 knots downwind and clean sea is 10% faster, if, till arrival they take benefit of such weather during 4 days , they can count on a global gain of 140 miles ( 35 miles/day) or more.

Let see if it's enough to compensate any breakage, bad option or too much upwind in light wind for a final win.

My bet is, it's yes.

If moustache imoca clear their reliability issue in the futur , they might become untouchable.

 

Is it ?

 

Sure they are coming from the same mould and the same yard (CDK) but, are boats with different engineering sisterships ?

 

There is very little info (at least to me) on who did what for who in this respect; except that for Safran, the Safran group claims that 1- they supervised the engineering 2- they supplied proprietary carbon-fibre.

 

B.Pop team have been building / moding more one-off boats than anybody else in the recent years, what was their technical team input ?

 

seb josse in an interview clearly confirm, that they bought the same design pakage from vplp verdier than virbac and that their hulls were 100% similar except minor deck plan details.

so I assume it was the same for safran/banquepop8, as they share same design package, building tools and yard.

but without any confirmation.

more details data about these points are highly confidentiel and probably will never appear in media.

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O Canada encountered serve weather (50-60kts) on the nose and has rerouted to A Coruna instead of Vigo after getting bashed real good. (via @ericholden 8h ago) They should dock within the next 3-4h. As far as we know at this time they need quite a bit of mast track repair near the 2nd reef and new wind gear.

 

Hugo Boss also rerouted to A Coruna, expected arrival is early Sunday. Their technical team and other experts are in place. (via TJV website.) Well, good luck with that, they have 100nm to go and are currently limping north in ~30kts of wind.

Obviously something major, and not of the "Turn on the engine and get out of here" variety either. Stringers/hull, foil case/hull, or both? We'll see.

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Hugo Boss sinking, skippers fine.

 

From the facebook page:

 

Update – Emergency Situation

Alex Thomson and Guillermo Altadill, skippers of yacht HUGO BOSS in the Transat Jacques Vabre set off their emergency beacon this afternoon at 13.25UT. The Spanish Coastguard was informed and sent a rescue helicopter to their location 82 nautical miles from the Spanish coast. Both Alex and Guillermo were rescued from the location by helicopter and are on their way back to land.

HUGO BOSS incurred some structural damage earlier this week forcing Alex and Guillermo to stop racing. The Skippers had made a repair and were on route to A Coruna where the technical team were waiting to meet them. After sailing for a period of 36 hours in high seas and strong winds, the structure of the boat deteriorated further and the boat started to take on water and sink. The technical team are in A Coruna, Spain awaiting further information from the coast guard.

Managing Director Stewart Hosford expresses ‘Our first concern is with Alex and Guillermo and when they are safely on the ground we will address the situation with our IMOCA 60 and begin the salvage process. We are grateful for the swift response from the rescue services in this situation.’

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Hugo Boss sinking, skippers fine.

 

From the facebook page:

 

Update – Emergency Situation

Alex Thomson and Guillermo Altadill, skippers of yacht HUGO BOSS in the Transat Jacques Vabre set off their emergency beacon this afternoon at 13.25UT. The Spanish Coastguard was informed and sent a rescue helicopter to their location 82 nautical miles from the Spanish coast. Both Alex and Guillermo were rescued from the location by helicopter and are on their way back to land.

HUGO BOSS incurred some structural damage earlier this week forcing Alex and Guillermo to stop racing. The Skippers had made a repair and were on route to A Coruna where the technical team were waiting to meet them. After sailing for a period of 36 hours in high seas and strong winds, the structure of the boat deteriorated further and the boat started to take on water and sink. The technical team are in A Coruna, Spain awaiting further information from the coast guard.

Managing Director Stewart Hosford expresses ‘Our first concern is with Alex and Guillermo and when they are safely on the ground we will address the situation with our IMOCA 60 and begin the salvage process. We are grateful for the swift response from the rescue services in this situation.’

 

Ouch. Thanks for the post. Sinking is not a trivial design/ build issue, especially since HB attempted to avoid the worst conditions

 

Imagine the reaction if this new design was by JK.

 

Maybe HB encountered a UFO which would fit the idea that multiple failures are needed for such a major fail.

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Imagine the reaction if this new design was by JK.

 

Business as usual? B)

 

Lets see if we get a bit more information about HB now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak.

I wonder what the reaction of the class will be. The new rules were written with the intention of reducing incidents like this. Emergency meeting and bye bye mustache boats to name a far out option?

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haven't been able to reach anyone at VPLP just yet, they must be on full crisis mode. I'd guess there will be a statement sometime today. They certainly have a lot to answer for!

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Imagine the reaction if this new design was by JK.

 

Business as usual? B)

 

Lets see if we get a bit more information about HB now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak.

I wonder what the reaction of the class will be. The new rules were written with the intention of reducing incidents like this. Emergency meeting and bye bye mustache boats to name a far out option?

 

 

I do not see what the mustaches have to do in here.

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WOW, talk about carnage. SAM/TAN are at half speed doing their repairs, hope they can get back into it. Ryan's boat in trouble too, or is that old news?

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haven't been able to reach anyone at VPLP just yet, they must be on full crisis mode. I'd guess there will be a statement sometime today.

I was just about to ask if VPLP had said anything publicly yet.

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Imagine the reaction if this new design was by JK.

 

Business as usual? B)

 

Lets see if we get a bit more information about HB now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak.

I wonder what the reaction of the class will be. The new rules were written with the intention of reducing incidents like this. Emergency meeting and bye bye mustache boats to name a far out option?

 

 

I do not see what the mustaches have to do in here.

 

The issue seems to be in St. Michel-Virbac and HB something is wrong with the new hull build process where the hull is incredibly thin with more ribs and structure inside. Nothing to do with the boards there, cut the foils out and put in straight boards and the same hull and structure issues could happen anywhere in the right condition. Now SMA out with structure, that boat and sister Maitre Coq, along with PRB looked like frontrunners after the issues on the new boats. Then Kito is on the old Virbac who's keel fell off in the last vendee, great boat but not sure Kito is the guy to get it to full potential. I wish AT kept that and made some mods for the next vendee.

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haven't been able to reach anyone at VPLP just yet, they must be on full crisis mode. I'd guess there will be a statement sometime today. They certainly have a lot to answer for!

 

Always interesting to check in here: :https://twitter.com/salvamentogob

 

Video of boat might well pop in sometime.

 

;)

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spoke to sarah who runs comms for Boss team, they are in conference all right now for a while. She will call me back afterwards.

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Ignorant question. Are Structural calcs done normally by the designers or do teams have their own strucfural engineers?

 

Then,as clean said,there can be build issue as well but this is looking to be pretty much structural related.

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