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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Jerryd

Flying Tiger

148 posts in this topic

Anyone know of any others that might become available sometime soon nearer the east coast than west.

 

have you sold your j-35 ?

 

Is your purchase of the ft10 dependent on first selling your j-35 ?

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Not sold yet. It's a J105. A prospective buyer had it surveyed this weekend. So might lead to something. But yes can't buy anything until current boat is gone.

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Not sold yet. It's a J105. A prospective buyer had it surveyed this weekend. So might lead to something. But yes can't buy anything until current boat is gone.

 

Let us know when your J/105 sale closes; I may have a lead for a good deal on a freshwater FT10.

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Here is an action shot of Tigga, the Auckland NZ FT10 going down Auckland Harbour under reefed main, No4 jib and fractional Gennaker. Breeze was a 30Kt+ SouWesterly off the southern Ocean.Bloody cold. We were clocking over 20Kt at times.

 

post-106597-0-44447500-1468900628_thumb.jpg

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We want to, but getting full week away from work will be difficult. We are thinking about doing delta ditch.

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Ok I'll say it - get rid of those old sails. Moving to a current generation set will make the boat faster and easier to sail. Call it a move from Gen 1 (the jib that blew and the dacron main) to gen 3 or 4 from any sailmaker who knows your local conditions.

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Yep, already been down that road with the previous boat. It helped a little, but I've found that there are so many more priorities in making the boat fast than jumping into new sails. A big one is developing an experienced consistent crew. We've actually won quite a few club races with the current set. The main reason the jib blew up was because we should have been flying the heavy air jib.

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Yep, already been down that road with the previous boat. It helped a little, but I've found that there are so many more priorities in making the boat fast than jumping into new sails. A big one is developing an experienced consistent crew. We've actually won quite a few club races with the current set. The main reason the jib blew up was because we should have been flying the heavy air jib.

Nice - great to hear you are on the right track. PM me if you Want to bounce ideas at all. We've had 8 great seasons with #71 - buoys and distance racing. It's been a great boat.

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Yep, already been down that road with the previous boat. It helped a little, but I've found that there are so many more priorities in making the boat fast than jumping into new sails. A big one is developing an experienced consistent crew. We've actually won quite a few club races with the current set. The main reason the jib blew up was because we should have been flying the heavy air jib.

Nice - great to hear you are on the right track. PM me if you Want to bounce ideas at all. We've had 8 great seasons with #71 - buoys and distance racing. It's been a great boat.

 

 

Definitely a fun boat for us too, especially when we get other FT10s out. We've had some fun with Anarchy in the last couple races.

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Glad you guys are enjoying the boat.

Bob-

After a boat is built, do you ever give any thought about what you might have done differently?

 

Looking back now, is there anything you would have done differently with the FT10?

 

If you think a response might cause a commotion, you can just say "wish it had been offered in more colors."

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Ship:

Yes, it's kind of an automatic response for me, i.e. what I should have done differently. When a boat is first launched it can be 99% perfect but all I will see for the first few months is the 1% I got wrong. It takes a while for me to warm up to my boats and let that troublesome 1%, maybe it's 5%, NOT define the boat. Over time the things I did right will overcome the faults. I think the quest for illusive "perfection" is what drives most designers.

 

If I had the FT 10m to do again I would:

Ignore the cries for headroom and drop the height of the cabin trunk.

Go with twin rudders.

 

I also would have camped at the boatyard while they refaired the entry to the plumb stem.

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Ship:

Yes, it's kind of an automatic response for me, i.e. what I should have done differently. When a boat is first launched it can be 99% perfect but all I will see for the first few months is the 1% I got wrong. It takes a while for me to warm up to my boats and let that troublesome 1%, maybe it's 5%, NOT define the boat. Over time the things I did right will overcome the faults. I think the quest for illusive "perfection" is what drives most designers.

 

If I had the FT 10m to do again I would:

Ignore the cries for headroom and drop the height of the cabin trunk.

Go with twin rudders.

 

I also would have camped at the boatyard while they refaired the entry to the plumb stem.

+1 on the cabin, but it's a bit on the skinny side for dual rudders isn't it? Or are implying you would widen the ass end too?

 

Edit: Might also reconsider footrest positions, at least for the driver. I'm 6'2" and never could find that compfy spot. We really needed to flatten the boat, but when heeled, it was just not as compfy as other 10m sporties. No big deal. Still a fantastic boat to sail. Thank you.

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Varan:

Yes, I would probably carry B max all the way aft.

Not sure about the foot Bensons. I'm 6'3" but I suspect they were a group decision at the yard. The guy running the program at deck plug stage was about 5'6".

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I'm 6'2" and the bensons are tough on the knees when heeled. Maybe I'll add a beer-holder/middle benson thing I thought I remember seeing somebody do here or have Dan K. do something with raptor deck.

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Varan:

Yes, I would probably carry B max all the way aft.

Not sure about the foot Bensons. I'm 6'3" but I suspect they were a group decision at the yard. The guy running the program at deck plug stage was about 5'6".

 

What are the typical trade-offs you need to make in wetter or not to make the transom wider? Wetted surface/light wind performance vs. early planing vs. upwind performance vs ????

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I owned one for four years and there is not much I would change. I always thought the boat was beautiful - even the high cabin trunk. It sailed really well, too.

 

I wonder if the benefits of two rudders would be worth the added complexity?

 

I am not very tall so the footrest positions for the driver were perfect for me. Taller drivers, especially in breeze, would end up sitting with their upper body outside of the top lifeline (the video above shows an example of this). Besides being against the rules (as I understand them) it also usually meant that we were sailing the boat at too high of a heel angle. I wonder if the "European" lifeline set up on the Melges 32 applied to the Tiger would make the driving position more comfortable for taller people? This set up has largely been abandoned by the 32 fleet since it limits how hard the crew can hike off the back of the boat which is not as critical of a necessity on a Tiger.

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I would have like a better Keel lifting system. Similar to the melges systems. A frame and chain come along just doesn't go with sport boat. I did enjoy the boat when I had it Bob.

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BTW, nice job on all the mathematical CE mumbo jumbo... The boat is a pleasure to drive. :)

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+1 on the cabin... +1 on the B Max extending... but a removable underhull rudder would be my pick. Perhaps like the MD35 (tapered box with regular rudder stock/bearings) rather than the more complex (expensive) Melges 32 arrangement. But we're not complaining! We've had 9 years of fast fun... amazing bang for buck. Silencing most if not all of the critics.

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I haven't used the original designed rudder, but the Betts rudder has been working great for us. It has a real articulate, responsive feel to it.

 

I've ramp launched from the trailer many times now and have never had a problem with the keel hoist.

 

The engine hatch is the only other minor issue I've had. It got jammed up a couple races ago. What have other owners done to fix this?

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I put water proof grease in the door track, and only move the door at very slow speeds, like under 2 knots. I also put lock-tite on the hardware as I had a few of the bits get loose in our 1st season. No trouble after that.

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I haven't used the original designed rudder, but the Betts rudder has been working great for us. It has a real articulate, responsive feel to it.

 

I've ramp launched from the trailer many times now and have never had a problem with the keel hoist.

 

The engine hatch is the only other minor issue I've had. It got jammed up a couple races ago. What have other owners done to fix this?

 

We had a F/G box made with a slit at the top that slides over the engine cav plate. Original door bolted to the bottom. The fin at the bottom of the engine leg is bolted to a couple of angles inside the box. It raises and lowers with the engine. Faultless.

 

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Here's a project one for $15k

 

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/boa/5992443709.html

 

00E0E_lSVkg6J6Z88_600x450.jpg

 

00202_hT3txbfcAuZ_600x450.jpg

 

THIS RACING SAILBOAT IS LOCATED IN MARINA DEL REY IN A SLIP. IT IS MISSING THE BOOM, RUDDER, SOME RIGGING AND SAILS. IT HAS A NISSAN ENGINE (RETRACTABLE) AND VHF RADIO ETC... GREAT PROJECT BOAT. NO TIME WASTERS OR DREAMERS PLEASE

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Anybody have an OEM cassette lying around they'd be willing to part with? I recently picked up a FT10m and there is some cracking on the bottom of the cassette. Looking to put money into sails before pulling the trigger on the Betts rudder.. Cheers.

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Anybody have an OEM cassette lying around they'd be willing to part with? I recently picked up a FT10m and there is some cracking on the bottom of the cassette. Looking to put money into sails before pulling the trigger on the Betts rudder.. Cheers.

Post a pic of it. It is probably cosmetic (bog cracks). I got fed up repairing ours and just cut a slice off!

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Anybody have an OEM cassette lying around they'd be willing to part with? I recently picked up a FT10m and there is some cracking on the bottom of the cassette. Looking to put money into sails before pulling the trigger on the Betts rudder.. Cheers.

 

Post a pic of it. It is probably cosmetic (bog cracks). I got fed up repairing ours and just cut a slice off!

post-129364-0-11938800-1490281024_thumb.jpg

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Anybody have an OEM cassette lying around they'd be willing to part with? I recently picked up a FT10m and there is some cracking on the bottom of the cassette. Looking to put money into sails before pulling the trigger on the Betts rudder.. Cheers.

Post a pic of it. It is probably cosmetic (bog cracks). I got fed up repairing ours and just cut a slice off!

 

Yep, it looks like just bog cracking. It's really quite minor. Ours was delaminating as well. All the strength is in the steel internals so it should not be an issue to just grind and fill. Whilst you're at it, we'd recommend replacing the OEM bolts that hold the bracket on the stern. The OEM ones are fully threaded which can eat into the fibreglass and allow movement. Replace with shanked bolts. Oh and then there's the bottom pintle the cassette pin goes through... it sees most of the load and the hole elongates. Check for movement there. We've bushed ours and that gets replaced periodically. I hate the barn door...

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Great, that's good to hear. Ill grind it out and fix it. I think the lower bolts have already been changed to shanked ones. Ill check the uppers...

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Anybody have an OEM cassette lying around they'd be willing to part with? I recently picked up a FT10m and there is some cracking on the bottom of the cassette. Looking to put money into sails before pulling the trigger on the Betts rudder.. Cheers.

Post a pic of it. It is probably cosmetic (bog cracks). I got fed up repairing ours and just cut a slice off!
Yep, it looks like just bog cracking. It's really quite minor. Ours was delaminating as well. All the strength is in the steel internals so it should not be an issue to just grind and fill. Whilst you're at it, we'd recommend replacing the OEM bolts that hold the bracket on the stern. The OEM ones are fully threaded which can eat into the fibreglass and allow movement. Replace with shanked bolts. Oh and then there's the bottom pintle the cassette pin goes through... it sees most of the load and the hole elongates. Check for movement there. We've bushed ours and that gets replaced periodically. I hate the barn door...

That's a great idea about the bushings, I'll look into that. Hopefully the barn door won't haunt us too long...

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I know a lot FT10s have a fractional spinnaker halyard setup using a choker/inhauler. I've got a masthead crane and pulley figured out, but was wondering about how the choker/inhauler is rigged. Are people cutting a knockout for a sheave above the forestay fitting?

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On 8/31/2017 at 6:41 AM, DSE said:

I know a lot FT10s have a fractional spinnaker halyard setup using a choker/inhauler. I've got a masthead crane and pulley figured out, but was wondering about how the choker/inhauler is rigged. Are people cutting a knockout for a sheave above the forestay fitting?

I think if people have added a Frac they did it as an external Halyard. The West Coast USA boats only used it for Distance Races. 

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1 hour ago, boyscout said:

I think if people have added a Frac they did it as an external Halyard. The West Coast USA boats only used it for Distance Races. 

That's what I have except I'm unsure on how to best rig the choker/inhauler part.

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The tang to which the forestay is attached to, has a second hole right above the one used by the forestay (see picture). 

I always thought that if you have a second external spinnaker halyard you could attach a block there, and pass the halyard through that block on his way down.  

WARNING: I never actually did try this solution, as I wasn't sure that tang would be appropriate to take the load of the frack spi. Do your own assessment and tests if you want to give it a try...  While you are inspecting the mast take a look at the rivets that keep the tang attached to the mast. The forestay pulls quite hard there, and you may want to replace all of them, or those that might be pulling out as in the picture

 

 

 

IMG_1980 (1).JPG

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Rather than using a fractional what we actually did was to build a small mast top kite, about 90 sqm I believe, much smaller and flatter than the class kite. It was still very fast, but much more manageable than class kite in strong winds or when shorthanded.   

492483119_5UvgE-X3 (1).jpg

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Cazza, Thanks for the ideas. You are guys are looking good there. Lashing a friction ring to that hole in the forestay fitting crossed my mind as an option as well. I did find out that North Sails has a fractional 'kit', but they weren't clear on how they rig it.

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The masts were all built with reinforcement where the headstay attaches to the mast - enough reinforced / sleeved area to cut and put in a new halyard exit block.  If I can find the PDF with the mast schematic I'll post it.  But bottom line - you can cut a hole for a fractional halyard no problem.

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On 9/9/2017 at 11:15 AM, ctdriver said:

The masts were all built with reinforcement where the headstay attaches to the mast - enough reinforced / sleeved area to cut and put in a new halyard exit block.  If I can find the PDF with the mast schematic I'll post it.  But bottom line - you can cut a hole for a fractional halyard no problem.

Thanks for the info. I think the drawing would be helpful. I have been able to locate where the sleeve ends above the forestay. I'm assuming the block used is the same as the harken spinnaker halyard block.

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Bingo - that's the block.  Will look for the drawings this weekend, but if you can "feel" the sleeve, you have a pretty good idea of where to cut.

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Found it - here's the schematic from Mr. Perry's office.  Way back when, I asked the CST guys (who built the masts) if they built it to this design, and for liability reasons they wouldn't make a commitment one way or the other.  We checked my mast (hull 71) and the reinforcement is exactly where it was drawn.  It sounds like you found the sleeve in the same spot too - so you should be good to go.

FT10 fraction spin halyard.pdf

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