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nacrajon

Seeking discussion on R2A/ Everglades Challenge in Australia

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I have been itching to compete in a Everglades Challenge or R2A type event but I do not want to travel to the USA. I 'm seeking a discussion on holding this type of event in Australia and trying to determine what the implications are if it all went wrong if I sent out a general invite. I hate the litigation tendency of the current society.

These are my thoughts:

-Current Tawe Nunnugah Raid is for people who want historical re-enactments in wooden boats, fun but not my thing.

-Western Port, around French Is, Phillip Is via San Remo then into Pt Phillip to finish in Melbourne. -Demanding the S of Phillip Is and entry into Pt Phillip can set the bar high.

-Wisemans Ferry to Brisbane Water not to demanding, except for Broken Bay.

- Tomb Thumb race, 8ft ( max length) dinghy from the Sydney Harbour bridge to Georges River and back.

-Airlie Beach to Cairns. In June /July so Irukandji Jellyfish (world's most venomous creature) and salt water crocodile are dormant.

 

My preference is Airlie to Cairns and I have done a fair bit of that route beachcamping on a Taipan 4.9.

 

How do I make filters to make a level playing field?

-Kayakers - up Creek checkpoints are bad because of salt water crocodiles

-Hobie Things -need a filter or they will be blown away by beachcats

- Farrier Tris or similar will suck up the SE tradewinds 15-35kts

 

I love the idea of blasting up FNQ but would the Tom Thumb challenge negate the check book factor. You can pick up a good Sabot for $800.

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Start at Tin Can Bay and finish at Bowen.

Go via sandy straits and then Gladstone narrows.

Up to shoal water bay provided no military exercises otherwise truck around.

a few detours around the Whitsundays and finish at Bowen.

Late winter is a great time although June is alright.

So around 500 miles.

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Wickham,

All for that as the Shoalwater Bay area throws up lots of challenges. But how to create filters to encourage Kayakers,Adventure Islanders, Mirrors etc to compete and not have a keel boat festival?

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Sorry, Gladstone narrows, how deep and wide are they? I don't have my chartplotter handy.

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Crocodiles don't really go dormant, they just get a bit slower. Still a bit sketchy in a canoe.

 

How long are you thinking for a course? There are a lot of close islands starting at Yeppoon. A race from there to airlie would be interesting.

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Narrows are fine for boats up to about 2m deep at high tide. Most cruisy keelboats up to 40ish foot use it.

 

It is a bloody long way between the sandy straits and Gladstone harbour with pretty minimal options for shelter without surfing it in. Some friends did a camp sail trip from mooloolaba to Gladstone and had days where they couldn't get off the beach

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What are the implications if I put out an invite for starting at the Yeppoon Surf Club 01 Aug 16, first to Airlie Yacht Club via the Narrows gets a carton of XXXX.

What if someone stuffs up and drowns, how do I safeguard my house?

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The Coorong too shallow?

 

Tom Thumb sounds a bit dodgy - too exposed for small craft. What about an inner-harbour race instead. Like Olympic Park / Silverwater to Roseville Bridge (though the MIddle Harbour bridge wouldn't let you sail through). That'd be a great long-day event.

 

I like your idea of the Hawkesbury - what about BYRA (Bayview, Pittwater) start / Gosford (in-out) / Bobbin Head (in-out) / finish at Berowra Creek ? That could be done in anything that fits under the Brooklyn Bridges.

 

EDIT: If you add Spencer between Bobbin Head and Berowra Creek its a total of about 70nm. You option of Wiseman's instead of Berowra would also be good outside ski-boat season.

 

Qld - Southport to Sunshine coast gives some nice options inside/outside based on vessel type.

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If it has a start and finish, it is a race.

Call yq, they can give you some pretty quick pointers on where liability starts and ends, and they are open minded about interesting races

 

Just poking around Google maps, start in Mackay, down to duke or marble island, north past the Whitsundays, finish in Bowen, ends up about 250 miles ish. Islands all the way

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Mathew Flinders used an 8ft dinghy from Pt Jackson to Botany Bay return with three adults.Surely adults racing in Sabots or similar could hack it, following the explorer's route? (it would want to be the right weather window)

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Mathew Flinders used an 8ft dinghy from Pt Jackson to Botany Bay return with three adults.Surely adults racing in Sabots or similar could hack it, following the explorer's route? (it would want to be the right weather window)

When was the last time you got in a sabot? It is pretty squeezy as an adult

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I aggree, I have sailed my son's Sabot a few km up the coast a couple of times to try and understand why people like monohulls. He now races a Opti, far less suitable for adults;-)

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What are the implications if I put out an invite for starting at the Yeppoon Surf Club 01 Aug 16, first to Airlie Yacht Club via the Narrows gets a carton of XXXX.

What if someone stuffs up and drowns, how do I safeguard my house?

Just call it a cruise in company and don't charge an entry fee. Put the house in the wife's name just in case.

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Putting a checkpoint the other side of a bridge, requiring mast to be lowered, might be a way of keeping the boats small and interesting. I recall the EC has a similar requirement?

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Moreton Bay? Southport - Run around a few islands - down the river to newstead - up to Redcliffe - over to Caboolture river entrance - then up the pumicestone passage. Could easily make 150-200nm course out of it. Beach launching - nothing over 400kg rigged.

 

A worrell Tybee catamaran event on the NSW/QLD coast would be great to see.

 

A weekend event would be best for participation numbers.

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Sorry, Gladstone narrows, how deep and wide are they? I don't have my chartplotter handy.

Tidal range over 3 m so no problem.

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Man up and make it a Race 2 Alaska, just start the qualifier in Cairns instead of Port Townsend.

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Given all your man killing creatures over there, a Death Race 2000 concept might be appropriate. Ohey !

 

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Putting a checkpoint the other side of a bridge, requiring mast to be lowered, might be a way of keeping the boats small and interesting. I recall the EC has a similar requirement?

That CP was moved a few years ago. No longer necessary to drop rig. However, boats that take the ICW might want to have a short or easily dropped rig so they don't have to wait for every bridge.

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Moreton Bay? Southport - Run around a few islands - down the river to newstead - up to Redcliffe - over to Caboolture river entrance - then up the pumicestone passage. Could easily make 150-200nm course out of it. Beach launching - nothing over 400kg rigged.

 

A worrell Tybee catamaran event on the NSW/QLD coast would be great to see.

 

A weekend event would be best for participation numbers.

Beach launch keeps sizes down...1000lbs is about most that 2people can roll on inflatable rollers. There shouldn't be a set course, there should be several options the competitors can chose from, each with its own problems to solve. The first leg to CP1 canbe a weekend affair, 50-75 miles. Sailboats will cover that in Saturday daylight. Kayakers will take Sat and Sunday. Shoal water shortcuts in a few spots on the course will allow kayakers to catch up. There should be multiple places for "stealth camping", and it would be good if there's a few places where the course passes through civilization, for provisioning, repairs, and spectating. If at the CPs, it will make manning them easier.

 

With the right course, I think Australians would go for such an event with gusto.

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There is no way to have a 100% assurance there will be no litigation. But the Watertribe warning on thier website is as close to comprehensive as you will get.

 

Is gambling legal in Australia? If so everyone wagers on themselves and the house takes a cut. No entry fee- just a friendly wager.

 

See if you can work in a 10-15 mile portage, just to separates the men from the boys.

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I like your idea of the Hawkesbury - what about BYRA (Bayview, Pittwater) start / Gosford (in-out) / Bobbin Head (in-out) / finish at Berowra Creek ? That could be done in anything that fits under the Brooklyn Bridges.

 

EDIT: If you add Spencer between Bobbin Head and Berowra Creek its a total of about 70nm.

Your route appeals due to the lack of wind on the upper Hawkesbury River. With a Palm Beach dry start pushing the boat into the water. I have not sailed in the upper Hawkesbury, I assume a winter or early autumn event would mean the river would be largely empty?

 

It could be a good, not to demanding lead in event over a weekend before bigger and better things. One of the reasons for posting this topic is to find out if there are any similar minded people locally who would like to do an event such as this. Potentially a small internet based group who decide on a course, starting date, time and rules.

 

We would show up at the predetermined time and then go for it. Use your mobile phone camera to prove you have visited checkpoints. No Yachting Australia or clubs etc.

 

Most small boat insurance I have had has a 50Nm limit per day. The route would have to work in with that.

 

I have read the watertribe - Warning must read, ignore at your peril. Good piece, surely a similar text modified for the local situation would suffice?

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I would be a good chance to compete for any qld based event, and I know another boat who has been thinking about this sort of thing recently

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I like your idea of the Hawkesbury - what about BYRA (Bayview, Pittwater) start / Gosford (in-out) / Bobbin Head (in-out) / finish at Berowra Creek ? That could be done in anything that fits under the Brooklyn Bridges.

 

EDIT: If you add Spencer between Bobbin Head and Berowra Creek its a total of about 70nm.

Your route appeals due to the lack of wind on the upper Hawkesbury River. With a Palm Beach dry start pushing the boat into the water. I have not sailed in the upper Hawkesbury, I assume a winter or early autumn event would mean the river would be largely empty?

 

It could be a good, not to demanding lead in event over a weekend before bigger and better things. One of the reasons for posting this topic is to find out if there are any similar minded people locally who would like to do an event such as this. Potentially a small internet based group who decide on a course, starting date, time and rules.

 

We would show up at the predetermined time and then go for it. Use your mobile phone camera to prove you have visited checkpoints. No Yachting Australia or clubs etc.

 

Most small boat insurance I have had has a 50Nm limit per day. The route would have to work in with that.

 

I have read the watertribe - Warning must read, ignore at your peril. Good piece, surely a similar text modified for the local situation would suffice?

 

 

yes - you could start at Palm beach and then go down and around Scotland Isl.

 

I wouldn't do winter. There's enough lack of wind in pretty much all the upper reaches (Bobbin Head, Berowra) to slow things up. Winter is a real lottery for wind. It'll be nothing 85% of the time, with a big Southerly the other 15%. An early start might get you a light westerly until midday.

 

No real traffic once you're past Brooklyn - mostly slow houseboats and motor shitters in the hawkesbury; certainly not busy enough to worry about even in mid summer - until you get west of Spencer and hit the ski-boat crowd heading up to Windsor.

 

You want to do a real historic marathon - Start at Parramatta, down the harbour, coast to Pittwater, up the Hawkesbury, finish in Windsor (20km from the start)!

 

Berowra creek is quiet, AFAIK. Probably be dodging kayaks and fishing tinnies more than anything else.

 

There's a reasonable cat fleet at Palm Beach - you might get a good response from them.

 

If you're considering the upper Harbour (Parramatta river) option - buzz me a PM; our club has an excellent rigging area and reasonable launch spot and might be interested in hosting a start and upper river safety. We run a marathon race down to Cockatoo Island and back once a year which could share a start, even.

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Hi jon,

 

Count me in.

 

Have a sabot or beach cat and could be ready to go.

Maybe I can do a frankentri and combine my skinny moth and cat.....

 

NSW, Qld... OK wherever, like all the options being tossed around.

 

They all have their merits.

 

Liability?, would sign a piece of driftwood or whatever.

 

I think the sort of people who would get involved would also be the types to not chase issues.

 

Borrow, with permission, from watertribe on the briefing and plenty of forewarning and information.

 

Some sort of Volunteer Coast Guard briefing and get them on board.

 

Maybe the 'fee' is a donation to the coast guard, not sure if there are any issues with that.

 

This world is becoming too wrapped in cotton wool and it is valuable for groups to still push boundaries.

 

 

Great idea.

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Bayview start finish at either Port Stephens or go all the way to Coffs.

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Thanks for all the responses, there seems to be interest in having a gathering to tackle a course.

 

There are many cool spots for an event around Australia. How about we keep it simple for now and use the Hawkesbury River as the initial basis for discussion?

 

The fundamental starting premise needs work but goes something like:

We are a group of like minded people who want to use small boats over a set of checkpoints in a challenging manner against ourselves, this is not a race.

 

Questions to be solved (and I'm sure this thread is not the right forum for all the answers)

 

Q1: Do we include Kayakers, Adventure Islanders, rowers, sailors?

 

Q2: If so the Checkpoints have to be set in a manner that the outcome is genuinely unknown.

 

Q3: Initial event duration of one weekend

 

Q4: Are there preparation rules or guidelines? If rules, how do you enforce them? What happens if a Moth/F18 shows up with the mentality that it will be a standard around the bouy race?

 

Q5: Almost all of the Hawkesbury is no camping and use of a holding tank. How do you get around that? I like the idea of having to sleep aboard/stealth camp/ or no sleep. Mandatory use of a sturdy bucket?

 

Broad Sketch of Idea

-Gathering on 29-30 Aug (lets do it rather than be internet sailors)

-Use Bayview Boat Ramp to launch. There is free parking in the nearby streets.

-Start on beach at 0700h at Flying Fox Cafe(dry start as per Watertribe)

-CP1 Berowra Waters

-CP2 Spencer

-CP3 Gosford

-CP4 Flying Fox Cafe

In total about 78Nm

 

-No motors, generators or stored power.

-Must have an alternate method of propulsion that is not wind dependant.

-Must comply with NSW waterways boat licencing laws, including nav lights.

-Potentially pay a small fee for a emergency services donation?

 

I will contact the local water authorities soon for their thoughts on the idea.

 

What I will be bringing to the gathering, 21ft demountable tri which I will probably singlehand with a yuloh for the lulls. It sounds a lot faster than it actually is, its a slug family boat (Virus Magnum 21).

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I really like the idea of an Ozzie EC style "event". I've done five HCW24hr races on Lake Macquarie and was on the committee a couple of years so know how much work it is to put something like this together. In its case the event organizers needed an aquatic license for the event and liability insurance. (I was more involved with the raising charity funds side) I'd suggest talking to guys from the Hawksbury river challenge for some pointers too.

 

Agree that the least amount of legal and paperwork BS is a worthy goal...not sure that can be achieved though especially if the event gets traction and 50 craft show up....IMHO this is exactly what got this years EC in strife....it grew bigger than just a ad hoc group of friends going on an aquatic outing kind of thing.

 

Better to get the info on how to do it "proper" now even if you decided to do it on the sly.

 

I'd use the YA blue book as a guide for safety inspections ...Cat5n

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I'd love to bring the taipan out for a spin in a race like this. As someone said up the page, the Gippsland lakes might be worth a look, it's not that far in a straight line from the eastern point to the western but if you put some waypoints in behind islands and so on you could stretch it right out.

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Great idea and something I've thought of looking into for a while now, plus I think Aus is perfect for it. Would you run 2 divs, 1 for solos and another for 2 man teams?

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I've had a chat with someone today who advised me it's not good enough to have people at the gathering with no intention to sue if it all went wrong. The issue is with loved ones who are relatives who are grief stricken who sue in order to get over their loss and/or gain financial stability in their time of need. This reality has reduced my desire to be involved in something like this.

 

I'm at sea for the next couple of days out of phone/internet coverage. I'm going to think about the way ahead. Keen to hear your suggestions.

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That is why you need an entity that runs the event not a person. And its this entity that carries liability insurance to cover worse case scenarios. I really think the idea has merit but would suggest you do your homework on the legal side and get a small committee started to share the load ...which can be considerable. to get something like this off the ground.

 

 

Think of this side of stuff as just the first of many technical hurdles that must be overcome so that you can organize an event designed to present oneself with physical hurdles......

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There are several short versions in AUS already,

Marley Point Overnight race on the Gipsland, (12hrs ?)

Milang to Goolwa in SA, (3hrs ?)

Harvey Bay 2 day Trailer yacht race,

Southport to Manly Qld.

and the two I have done,

Brya marathon around Lion Is (1hr-)

HCW around Lake Macquarie, (2hrs +)

There is also already a one day paddle race down the Hawkesbury

 

These have used up a few of the suggested locations. Obviously a lot of these suggestions are too short for a R2A or EC type race.

 

Southport to Mooloolaba seems like a good option so long as there is a gate somewhere shallow to prevent big yachts going outside and blitzing it. I do not like going too north in Qld with those big Gekkos.

 

But as a Sydney sider I do like the idea of the 8ft Tom Thumb race though.

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I like the idea of a Pittwater/Hawkesbury course. A bit of protected water, a bit of less protected water, camping sites if necessary and not too much traffic.

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There are several short versions in AUS already,

Marley Point Overnight race on the Gipsland, (12hrs ?)

Milang to Goolwa in SA, (3hrs ?)

Harvey Bay 2 day Trailer yacht race,

Southport to Manly Qld.

and the two I have done,

Brya marathon around Lion Is (1hr-)

HCW around Lake Macquarie, (2hrs +)

There is also already a one day paddle race down the Hawkesbury

 

These have used up a few of the suggested locations. Obviously a lot of these suggestions are too short for a R2A or EC type race.

 

Southport to Mooloolaba seems like a good option so long as there is a gate somewhere shallow to prevent big yachts going outside and blitzing it. I do not like going too north in Qld with those big Gekkos.

 

But as a Sydney sider I do like the idea of the 8ft Tom Thumb race though.

 

Phil,

 

I think the point is all of the events you've mentioned are either sailing or paddle.. not a combination. Sure, they're great events (I have fond memories of doing a somewhat frightening Marley Point as a teen, and I love our club's annual marathon jaunt down the Harbour)

 

Nacra - don't be put off.. As Try Flying says, you just need a keen sponsoring club. There no reason why in pittwater/hawkesbury, you couldn't get a few clubs together to handle various parts of the course. BYRA or Avalan (Pittwater)/Gosford SC/Hornsby PCYC (sailing out of Brooklyn) come to mind.

 

It can be sold to the paddle clubs - many of them are already familiar with using sails on kayaks, so that's a potential source of entries.

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There are several short versions in AUS already,

Marley Point Overnight race on the Gipsland, (12hrs ?)

Milang to Goolwa in SA, (3hrs ?)

Harvey Bay 2 day Trailer yacht race,

Southport to Manly Qld.

and the two I have done,

Brya marathon around Lion Is (1hr-)

HCW around Lake Macquarie, (2hrs +)

There is also already a one day paddle race down the Hawkesbury

 

These have used up a few of the suggested locations. Obviously a lot of these suggestions are too short for a R2A or EC type race.

 

Southport to Mooloolaba seems like a good option so long as there is a gate somewhere shallow to prevent big yachts going outside and blitzing it. I do not like going too north in Qld with those big Gekkos.

 

But as a Sydney sider I do like the idea of the 8ft Tom Thumb race though.

The lizards start around Yeppoon, which is about where the islands really start too.

 

The Southport mooloolaba race sounds bloody good, although doing bay to bay could be a fun sprint(ish) race. Talking to yq will give you some clarity in how to get things happening legal wise. The boss was damn helpful getting our wags racing on the level, and he is an open minded sort of bloke with fun races, even if it isn't run through yachting Australia channels

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Wasn't there something called the great race ran up near Brisbane for a while in recent times? Took the best part of a day from what I remember reading.

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Putting a checkpoint the other side of a bridge, requiring mast to be lowered, might be a way of keeping the boats small and interesting. I recall the EC has a similar requirement?

That CP was moved a few years ago. No longer necessary to drop rig. However, boats that take the ICW might want to have a short or easily dropped rig so they don't have to wait for every bridge.

 

 

They changed the bridge a year or two prior to the checkpoint change.

 

Before that, the OLD bridge was a great filter for the race. It was low AND narrow. It was the main reason why the Sizzor tri folded.

 

A Farrier tri can fold and drop the mast on the water, but the akas are still kind of tall.

 

I think a low, narrow bridge is a great small boat filter. That and the beach launching thing will keep the boats small and simple, and if they don't, good on the people who come up with solutions for bigger, more complex boats.

 

The Everglades National Park is huge but the only EC competitors who see anything I'd call Everglades are those who earn the alligator tooth.

 

I'd like to see them move Checkpoint 1 to my neighbor's boat ramp. Everyone would have to deal with more shallows, more currents, less room to sail, and then this:

 

underRRbridge-lg.jpg

 

For nitpickers, yeah, I flopped my sail there in a wad instead of flaking it. It's going right back up on the other side so piss off. :P

 

Boats that pass that RR bridge would encounter Evergladesy things like marsh grass, cypress trees, alligators, and... umm... possibly rednecks in airboats. You can earn a necklace full of shark's teeth without seeing any of those things.

 

My suggestion to Aussies: put a checkpoint someplace that is a giant PITA for sailboats. Make them actually have to rely on human power to get through at least some of the course. People can find a way to get something surprisingly large off a beach and they might somehow squeeze it through a low and narrow bridge, but can they move it using human power?

 

If the answer is yes, that's a small boat.

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Talking to Yachting Queensland never helps anything.

Got a better idea on who to talk to?
I think it might be better to stay away from traditional yachting organizations. Think outside the box...is there an Australian group that hosts ironman events? That might be a group willing to handle logistics and promotion.

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Are you talking about ironman as in the overgrown triathlon style? Or like adventure racing, tough mudder and that sort of thing? I think the latter is all commercial operations, and would require higher entry fees and higher numbers than will show up for an event like this in AUS. Maxadventure runs some of the lower key events I have seen, the one I did was well run with a reasonable level of support staff in course.

I would probably try and find someone to talk to in kayaking or paddling circles, see how they organise their expedition trips.

I still think a talk with the state yachting body would be worthwhile. We pay their wages, might as well try and get the services you want from them. At the least they have access to a big list of all boating and marine organisations, if they don't want to help they might know who can

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Are you talking about ironman as in the overgrown triathlon style? Or like adventure racing, tough mudder and that sort of thing? I think the latter is all commercial operations, and would require higher entry fees and higher numbers than will show up for an event like this in AUS. Maxadventure runs some of the lower key events I have seen, the one I did was well run with a reasonable level of support staff in course.

I would probably try and find someone to talk to in kayaking or paddling circles, see how they organise their expedition trips.

I still think a talk with the state yachting body would be worthwhile. We pay their wages, might as well try and get the services you want from them. At the least they have access to a big list of all boating and marine organisations, if they don't want to help they might know who can

Yes, the ultra triathlon. The r2ak and EC have more in common with that than traditional yacht racing. And groups that host such events usually do limited number of events per year, thus might have available staff and time to promote and run a small boat adventure race. A Yachting Authority is going to have a pretty busy schedule, and likely wouldn't take an adventure race very seriously...they're tradition bound. And yes, paddling clubs might be another possible resource.

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What about port Stephens -myall river- myall lakes and back or similar?

Could include karuah river as well, quite a journey, similarly hawkesbury to gosford

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+1 for karuah river...how far north is it navigable? Stroud? If so and you added say a check point of lapping Broughton Island and then going up the Myall river to Bungwahl then your looking at ~200km course.

 

Pluses from what I can see is are:

  • Mixture of down and up river
  • Tidal flows
  • Offshore leg out to Broughton ie can be quite rough out there so it does put the unprepared "in harms way"
  • narrow "skinny water" better suited to padlle craft
  • mixed in with sections that sail (with some wind) would prevail (Port stephens and offshore leg
  • lots of opportunities to camp along route
  • is highlighting a particular area (port stephens) so could get some support from the local tourism / council.

I'd say start from Bungwahl as it is more open for the starters in the lakes and less congestion hopefully at the finish once competitors are spread out

 

Want to add another small boat filter then start on Smiths lake and force participants to do a 2km portage into Myall lake right at the beginning.

 

I agree with others that this is more suited to a paddle group organisation and woul dseek out advice from the guys that organize the Hawksbury classic and Myall river marathon. However would consult the yachting blue book regarding safety specs for a Category 5N race

 

To me you need to come up with a concept race that is just scary/crazy enough to put off unprepared dreamers in inflatable ducks (exaggerating but you know what I mean) as the last thing you want is to attract a bunch of people that quickly get themselves into strife. Maybe make doing a Hawksbury challenge as a mandatory entry requirement? The race also need the long distance multi day and self supporting aspect to make it a challenge so maybe it should be a lap ie there and back so its closer to 400km.

 

There is a famous cross-country ski race in Canada the is 160km long ( https://goo.gl/7fH0rI) which as three classes.

  1. you ski and stay in a motel at night
  2. you ski and stay in a tent but that is carried for you
  3. you ski and carry everything you need (food shelter etc)

You cannot do #3 without passing thru one and two. in previous years.

 

This may be a way of creating entry levels such that you can attract the less adventurous on sections of your event while still having the uber marathon group that does the whole 9 yards...ie spread your participation base and thus be able to raise more entry fees to cover the admin of the event.

 

Next hurdle once you decide on a location is time of year based on weather, school holidays, other rival / complimentary events in the calender

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Ive been wanting something like the EC in Australia for years now, but the best Ive come across was the Great Race (Southport to Brisbane) Since there is no actual race to enter, Ill be sailing my Hobie 16 from Yeppoon to Airlie Beach in late July/early August, should help with my expedition fix for the year ;)

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I know of a couple of guys who sailed a corsair (16ft mono) from norah head (NSW) up to manly (qld) for the nationals, I think it was in 2010 or 11. Here is a video of it.

There are more videos to and they wrote a bit of a journal too

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Great idea, but the people who want to save us from ourselves because they have nothing worthwhile tocontribute frown on this type of thing. Afew years ago myself and a few like minded people looked into doiing a 'Raid Whitsunday' type event from Sarina to Bowen. The legalities of making it a public event got crazy.Rough idea was for beachcats and dinghys 14 foot plus, beach camping, a couple of over nights island camping. Keep the legs short to allow for weather and plenty of time for beach bbbq's and socialising. Drag a long acouple of larger trailer sailers as 'motherships and a large RIB or similar for emergency rescue /evacuation- hopefully only really reqired to carry the esky. Anyway, by time we spoke to GBRMPA / Council / VMR / Blokes at hte Yacht Club Bar / it allgot too busy. Can be done but it will take time and money to sort it properly. SO, My mate jumped on his 5.0 Nacra, I chucked my old A class in and we did it unsupported,apart from his girlfriend driving to Bowen to pick us up. 4 days in August light ot moderate Se to Sw winds all the way,sliighly sunburnt but otherwise no dramas.

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... The legalities of making it a public event got crazy....

 

Well, if you want something like the Everglades Challenge, I'd have to say that's part of what you're asking for after this year's fiasco.

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I have come to similar conclusions the people above have, I will keep beach cruising building my experience and now I'm aware of the longer small boat sailing races I will start entering these.

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Nacrajon if you can get your boat up to cat5n spec then the HCW24hr is a great place to start...plus a good cause.

 

If you only have a beach cat however its going to be hard to get Cat5n as I 'm pretty sure you need somewhere for the crew to seek shelter...not sure a waterproof swag tied to the nets complies but might be a loophole to exploit :)

 

The one thing that I can't stress enough is how important setting up a watch rotation is even on a short race like the HCW. Fatigue will get ya killed or at the least in an accident with someone else especially in enclosed crowded watersFor example In this race you might be passed by a boat doing +20knots in white out squall conditions while still navigating around the hard bits...gotta keep yer wits about ya.

 

On our TT720 tri the optimum number of crew is three as 2 on deck one resting...if your craft is able to be singlehanded in a blow then 1up 1 down. Solo is really only good if you have the searoom or the ability to stop to rest.Don't underestimate how much hard work sailing at night in weather is.

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Think of my Magnum 21 as a French version of a Hunter Tramp without the fold. My club rating is incorrect but on the water I'm even with the Gen 1 Farriers.

 

I agree with you about the importance of watchkeeping. I just need to find a lake/coastal race that allows dayboats with all the necessary safety gear but no cabin.

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If your in the lake Macquarie region then I'd suggest you have a chat with the race officer at Toronto RMYC as they are the hosting club for the HCW. I'm not on the committee anymore so can't champion your case but if you can impress on them that as its an inshore event and the fact that there are numerous possible bail out points around the lake the cabin requirement might be eased as long as you can provide shelter from the weather..ie dry suit. There is no way they will allow solo though.

 

 

As they need to get an aquatic license for the event and also have a good relationship with the VMR to maintain they might be obliged to stick to the letter of the blue book..but no harm in asking. We did get exemptions for storm sails and were also instrumental in getting handheld VHF's recognized as valid substitutes for base station so there is hope.

 

Push comes to shove there is nothing stopping you shadowing the fleet and at least you will have company.

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If you wanted a real man event do it like the Jester Challenge, 30' max say Cairns to Darwin ?

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To the OP have you reached out to Steve a/k/a Chief at Watertribe? I am sure he would share his hard earned lessons.

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I asked a similar question over at the Catsailor Forums back in January

The Everglades Challenge starts in March - a 300 nautical mile (555Km) unsupported, non-stop race down the West coast of Florida for small boats, kayaks etc.

There have been a number of poeple who have sailed from Carins to Townsville in small cats and tris, but if there was to be an annual small boat mega-marathon event in Australia, where and when would it held?

My boat insurance also states that I am only covered for races up to 100nm/day - so you couldn't call it a race - so call it a "rally" instead.

I think you'd want to go North to South with the prevailing winds and currents just to make it less arduous.

Port Douglas - Townsville - 368 km (200 nautical miles)

Townsville - Mackay is 359 km (193 nautical miles)

Cairns - Mackay is around 656 km (354 nautical miles)

You could do it in two parts (like the Everglades challenge which incorporates the 90 mile Ultimate Marathon that finishes at the first checkpoint for the EC - aimed at those who haven't got time/experience/energy to do the EC).

 

Could you run such an event with the public liability insurance issues we have in Australia? If not here, could you run it in New Zealand instead which essentially you're liable for your own actions.

- [Leadfoot] if you want a tighter race you could do Gold coast to Bundaberg inside course. Gives you narrow from gold coast to morten Bay. Then a bit of ocean sailing from Caloundra to inskip point. Then Narrow again behind Fraser island finishing with semi open waters to Bundaberg. Biggest problem would be the bar at Inskip point.

 

- [darcy1945] There was (Not sure if still is) a channel entrance at Inskip Point approaching from the south and staying within 50m of the beach.
The locals would know if it is still viable. I would not like to try Wide Bay bar in OTB boats.

 

My suggested course:

Gold Coast - Bongaree
Bongaree - Mooloolaba
Mooloolaba - Noosa
Noosa - Coolooloi
Coolooloi - Hervey Bay
Hervey Bay - Bundaberg

(see map here)

- [slammer] Wollongong to Newcastle. Sailing the most populated coast of Australia.
1. Wollongong to Kurnell, 2. Kurnell via the Harbour to Manly. 3. Manly to Pittwater, 4. Pittwater to Central Coast, 5.Central Coast to Newcastle. These legs would utilise club facilities at each finishing point.

I would limit the course seaward to a boundary at 2nm. This would be policed by support craft running the boundary. The 2nm boundary would keep the boats within land visibility and minimise safety requirements for each boat to carry flares, V sheets, radios etc and not void most OTB insurances. Each boat would carry a GPS capable mobile phone as per the Fiji race.

When? The SE is a more temperate sea breeze maxing out around the 15-18kn mark and fairly constant during Feb-March-April. This would allow Spinnaker runs up the coast.

 

 

Not sure how useful this is but there certainly is interest - however, the regulatory and insurance issues might make it impossible in Australia.

 

Paul, Weta #325

Sydney

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There's no draft issues for a beach rounding of inskip point.

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Only if you're in the breakers. If you stayed out you'd be fine.

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I think it depends on the tide - if you got there at low tide you might be able to use the inside route otherwise you'd have to go outside.

 

See page 10 of QLD Maritime Boating Map

post-2624-0-78381900-1435961223_thumb.png

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Trust me :-) it's all good in there, even around the corner out of the surf there's plenty of depth. Wouldn't take a TP52 through there but even a small keeler would be fine to cut the corner. It's a good way to stay out of the shit.

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I like the Hobie photo above, here's mine with the Taipan on the beach on Hook Island looking towards Hayman Is in the Whitsundays at the end of a 10 day beach cruising trip. Lighter to sleep under the mailsail:-)

 

I'm currently thinking of a different idea.

 

Publish the course checkpoints on kayak, sailing and beachcat forums. Similar to the set course in the Hawkesbury as stated above but use a smart phone app such as Stava to record the route and time taken.

 

After finishing I could upload my Strava file. The challenge would then be there for others to beat. You could then choose a time to challenge yourself when convenient.

 

What do you think?

 

The idea of doing this was is it becomes a personal challenge and gets around liability hurdles.

 

Is there a water based app like Strava that would be more appropiate?

post-33395-0-18046500-1437115544_thumb.jpg

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I do the Goolwa to Meningie race each year on my beachcat, it travels about 70km across the two lakes at the end of the Murray river, depending on wind between 3 and 5 hours for fast beachcat and up to 11 hours for the monos, being in enclosed waters there is a lot less risk. It would be hard to give the non sail craft any edge in that race, part of it is in a narrow creek between the lakes but even with the wind on the nose paddlers wouldn't catch up but I gave some thought to what your sort of adventure could be and a race starting at the Southern end of the Coorong say in Salt Creek through the Coorong which is narrow for sailing due to the calcium reefs and shallow water past Goolwa, across Lake Alexandrina, then up the Murray river for whatever distance you set would even a lot out for different craft because a lot of days there is negligible wind in the morning so the paddlers would have a big advantage and even when there is wind a lot of time it's on the nose with lots of tacks in tight waters against the current. Another great event would be when the Cooper Creek fills again, race from the start of the Cooper (wherever you determine that to be) to Lake Eyre, I've done a bit of sailing on the Cooper and Lake Eyre and racing on the the Cooper is awesome, 30 cats racing amongst the trees trying to find an exit unforgettable.

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I like the Hobie photo above, here's mine with the Taipan on the beach on Hook Island looking towards Hayman Is in the Whitsundays at the end of a 10 day beach cruising trip. Lighter to sleep under the mailsail:-)

 

I'm currently thinking of a different idea.

 

Publish the course checkpoints on kayak, sailing and beachcat forums. Similar to the set course in the Hawkesbury as stated above but use a smart phone app such as Stava to record the route and time taken.

 

After finishing I could upload my Strava file. The challenge would then be there for others to beat. You could then choose a time to challenge yourself when convenient.

 

What do you think?

 

The idea of doing this was is it becomes a personal challenge and gets around liability hurdles.

 

Is there a water based app like Strava that would be more appropiate?

 

good thinking.. Strava would work fine, as would any other GPS capture for that matter. Lets people pick their weather, too, which is nice.

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Could you adapt the Marley Point race in Victoria?

This.....Surely up the lakes, or around them and back would be perfect!! Can you sail up Lake Reeve?

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-Gippsland Lakes Yacht club runs a 30 mile race every year at Easter for off the beach boats. (a long lap to Metung and back)

-They are the finish club for The Marlay Point.

-Loch Sport already runs a long distance OTB race once a year with cash prizes.

- Marlay point has a long history of having OTB boats competing but more recently Etchells would be the closest thing.

 

Currently The Marlay starts in the afternoon, so as a separate division fast OTB could start in the morning and race to Lakes Entrance?

 

So besides from talking hypothetical races that will maybe never happen should we just start with a known entity and actually work with the clubs on increasing attendance!

Also there have been quite a few long distance kayak events in the area and they all used these yacht clubs as checkpoints.

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nacrajon, I sail a 20 ft farrier tri on lake Macquarie, usually single handed, only use a crew when the NOR says I have to, I have competed in the HCW (only one lap dash,30nm ) for I think 6 years at this point but am dead keen for a shot at initially the 12 hr(midnight finish). its on in February NOR came out today(check RMYC Toronto) since Try Flying is running scared(LOL,MARK), maybe you would like to come and race against me.

Even the 1 lap dash can be an endurance event in poor conditions,strong wind on the nose etc, times have varied from about 4 hrs up to 6 hrs over the years.

doing either 12 or 24 hr and Getting the Cat5n bit sorted and some night navigation,team practice etc, could be a good thing,for other potential competitors in a future EC type event. got nothing for the paddlers though.

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Mitchelsailor, none of the races you mention are anything like a Watertribe style event.

 

I am familiar with OTB, trailersailor and some keelboat events and I regulary enter them either on my boat or as crew.

 

Honestjohn, I'm keen and I hope you have a Tramp so we will have a similar rating. My boats at Cat 5N now.

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Who wouldn't want to race thru the Whitsundays ;) Photos from Goldsmith and Thomas Islands in the southern Whitsundays

 

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