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DtM

VOR Leg 9 Lorient to Gothenburg via The Hague

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^^^Come on... its not just the 70's they are slower than. They are slower off the wind than IMOCAs and "Life at the Extreme" wasn't meant to mean "life at an extreme angle of heel even when not sailing upwind". IMOCAs go faster single handed!

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Unfortunately the sailors had their chance with the 70s and things didn't work out as planned. The costs spiralled and the class didn't mature and improve as was expected. Instead of sorting out the gremlins they seemed to find more. The result was that the guys with the purse strings had enough and the outcome was a cheaper one design that had input from all of the teams last race, and whilst they couldn't get all they wanted for the price tag, they got equal boats and budgets that the sponsors said would work.

No it isn't as quick or fragile, but I doubt a 70 would have set any records in the weather they have had this race either. The sponsors are happy and more likely to pay the sailors their wages for another cycle than they would have been otherwise. I think the sailors should be pretty happy with that. And I honestly can't see the difference between 7.5 and 8.5 knots or between 16 and 18 knots when looking at my computer screen. It doesn't really matter.

The other problem is that if the boats were quicker then the race would be in trouble. They start as late as they can in the European summer/autumn and get to the Southern Ocean as late as they can, but they still get back in the Northern hemisphere too early in the spring. Imagine quicker boats. They would either have to leave Europe in November and get to Newport in April, or have long stopovers, which eats money faster than anything and doesn't meet what the sponsors want.

Also, where would you put 8 MOD70 size boats in a race village? You would end up moving the race village to commercial ports around the world. Sponsors don't like that for their corporate entertainment.

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^^^Come on... its not just the 70's they are slower than. They are slower off the wind than IMOCAs and "Life at the Extreme" wasn't meant to mean "life at an extreme angle of heel even when not sailing upwind". IMOCAs go faster single handed!

 

I don't get the complaint about the angle of heel. It seems like it's mostly for low wetted surface in light air. In a breeze, they heel less at 35 kt than my boat does a 15kt.

 

VOR_150609_asanchez_8651.jpg

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^^^Come on... its not just the 70's they are slower than. They are slower off the wind than IMOCAs and "Life at the Extreme" wasn't meant to mean "life at an extreme angle of heel even when not sailing upwind". IMOCAs go faster single handed!

The thing is, speed is relative. Daddy's comment below sounds similiar to my own thought as a voyeur in this race. I'm not on the boat, just tracking an icon across a screen so seeing speed is just a number to factor into the overall race number crunching. End of the day it is about choice and those that don't like the VO65 don't need to race on it. Looking at IMOCA boats, they seem designed for solo or short handed crew which does not fit the VOR "team" model so while it is faster, it is not a large crewed yacht.

 

No boat is perfect and everyone has their personal likes/dislikes so no one will be completely pleased by a boat picked for a class, but from a spectator standpoint, the ROs need something people can relate too and it seems VOR found that in this 65. You ma thing they are the station wagon of ocean racing, but it is a wagon that shown it can cross multiple oceans, handle intense weather and bring a fleet home in pretty much one piece (mast breakage considered manufacturing defect, not designed weakness).

 

I like my station wagon, just as I loved my truck of the water (God bless you Blackaller). I guess I'm not a speed junkie, love team racing, and grace in well designed monohulls. At my level, Lightnings, Buccaneers...its still all sailing.

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Who cares about the angle of heel apart from the guys being paid the big bucks to put up with it?

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Thanks for that, quite amazing these are not up the VOR site yet.

 

But be careful, sound level very high at the beginning and sounds not goog, gets better after a few seconds

 

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Video of the Gothenburg arrival presser is also up

 

 

 

The audio version is ~10 minutes longer, I did not check contents against each other yet.

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Unfortunately the sailors had their chance with the 70s and things didn't work out as planned. The costs spiralled and the class didn't mature and improve as was expected. Instead of sorting out the gremlins they seemed to find more. The result was that the guys with the purse strings had enough and the outcome was a cheaper one design that had input from all of the teams last race, and whilst they couldn't get all they wanted for the price tag, they got equal boats and budgets that the sponsors said would work.

No it isn't as quick or fragile, but I doubt a 70 would have set any records in the weather they have had this race either. The sponsors are happy and more likely to pay the sailors their wages for another cycle than they would have been otherwise. I think the sailors should be pretty happy with that. And I honestly can't see the difference between 7.5 and 8.5 knots or between 16 and 18 knots when looking at my computer screen. It doesn't really matter.

The other problem is that if the boats were quicker then the race would be in trouble. They start as late as they can in the European summer/autumn and get to the Southern Ocean as late as they can, but they still get back in the Northern hemisphere too early in the spring. Imagine quicker boats. They would either have to leave Europe in November and get to Newport in April, or have long stopovers, which eats money faster than anything and doesn't meet what the sponsors want.

Also, where would you put 8 MOD70 size boats in a race village? You would end up moving the race village to commercial ports around the world. Sponsors don't like that for their corporate entertainment.

If you only look at computer screens and can't tell the difference between 7.5 knots and 8.5 knots, then you can't have done much ocean sailing!

Can't see that your comments have much value in this debate if that's the case.

I would take much more heed of the folk I have spoken to who have sailed these boats and the 70s and IMOCAs, all of who say the same thing.

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How many team sponsors are back for the next race WYD? My questions give me the following guesses:

 

ALVI: Out

SCA: They won't say in or out, but they did say they are satisfied with their branding exercise.

Brunel: Likely not title

Mapfre: I'll be shocked

Vestas: >50% likely in

ADOR: Unlikely

DFRT: No idea

 

The good news is that the boats are already out there, so the barriers to entry are quite minor, and I expect the following new ones:

 

African team

American team

Swedish team

Dutch Team

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Unfortunately the sailors had their chance with the 70s and things didn't work out as planned. The costs spiralled and the class didn't mature and improve as was expected. Instead of sorting out the gremlins they seemed to find more. The result was that the guys with the purse strings had enough and the outcome was a cheaper one design that had input from all of the teams last race, and whilst they couldn't get all they wanted for the price tag, they got equal boats and budgets that the sponsors said would work.

No it isn't as quick or fragile, but I doubt a 70 would have set any records in the weather they have had this race either. The sponsors are happy and more likely to pay the sailors their wages for another cycle than they would have been otherwise. I think the sailors should be pretty happy with that. And I honestly can't see the difference between 7.5 and 8.5 knots or between 16 and 18 knots when looking at my computer screen. It doesn't really matter.

The other problem is that if the boats were quicker then the race would be in trouble. They start as late as they can in the European summer/autumn and get to the Southern Ocean as late as they can, but they still get back in the Northern hemisphere too early in the spring. Imagine quicker boats. They would either have to leave Europe in November and get to Newport in April, or have long stopovers, which eats money faster than anything and doesn't meet what the sponsors want.

Also, where would you put 8 MOD70 size boats in a race village? You would end up moving the race village to commercial ports around the world. Sponsors don't like that for their corporate entertainment.

If you only look at computer screens and can't tell the difference between 7.5 knots and 8.5 knots, then you can't have done much ocean sailing!

Can't see that your comments have much value in this debate if that's the case.

I would take much more heed of the folk I have spoken to who have sailed these boats and the 70s and IMOCAs, all of who say the same thing.

 

Wait what?

 

Come on, that's getting somewhat below the salt. Whether or not I, Daddy, or others have or have not done ocean sailing, our viewpoint as a spectator does have value, because without a large enough body of people watching...there is no VOR. The number of people who have sailed on the VO65 and/or the VOD70 is a pretty small number in the sailing community as a whole. If only those people are qualified to talk about this race, you are going to have a fairly small party and a fairly incestuous approach to the race overall. Short of insults, people's insights do have value.

 

I've never sailed a VO65. I never will, but if one was put in my hand I damn well would know the difference between 7.5 and 8.5 knots if standing on the deck. I don't need ocean racing to know that feeling so let's put condescension back in the pantry. My point (and I think Daddy's) is that when one is following a race as long as and as varied in conditions, looking at a speed number on the screen is just that, a number. Whether the number is 7.5 vs 8.5, it only represents speed in the moment and from the armchair, that difference could be boat, weather, garbage, who the fuck really knows for they are thousands of miles away. The difference makes no difference other than how it relates to the other racers.

 

Staysail, you miss the idea that no matter what your sailors say about the boat, unless they are funding a new race and or a new boat their opinion provides as little value to an existing boat as does mine. They don't like the VO65? Fine, Then. Don't. Sail. It. Problem solved and Knut and company can and will find sailors who will. If VOR help me get a job after 9 months at sea, hell I'd skipper a VO65 in a heart beat.

 

Do not dismiss voices, for they represent a potentially larger crowd than the elite ones you swim in and it is that crowd that ultimately provides the foundation for those elite sailors to build on.

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Video of the Gothenburg arrival presser is also up

 

 

 

The audio version is ~10 minutes longer, I did not check contents against each other yet.

 

Jo's questions at the beginning drag on for a while. Mine are all after hers, including a couple that you guys asked for.

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I'm not a huge fan of the boats either, but +1 on this statement. And if I'm offered a chance to live at 30 degrees of heel in 2 years as an OBR, I'll jump on it.

 

 

They don't like the VO65? Fine, Then. Don't. Sail. It. Problem solved and Knut and company can and will find sailors who will.

 

 

 

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How many team sponsors are back for the next race WYD? My questions give me the following guesses:

 

ALVI: Out

SCA: They won't say in or out, but they did say they are satisfied with their branding exercise.

Brunel: Likely not title

Mapfre: I'll be shocked

Vestas: >50% likely in

ADOR: Unlikely

DFRT: No idea

 

The good news is that the boats are already out there, so the barriers to entry are quite minor, and I expect the following new ones:

 

African team

American team

Swedish team

Dutch Team

Were I able to be a whisper in Larry Page's ear, I'd try to get Google to sponsor an American Team. With the VOR being a B2B platform for companies, Google could just enhance its presence via a VOR team globally and maybe in new markets. CLEAN, want to make a pitch?

 

It is hard to imagine a base for an African team in part, from the size of the continent, and which country/corporation would have the funding to promote a VOR team. I think it would be fantastic to see, but a long row to hoe. With the success of DFRT, it seems improbable that China, either via DFRT or some other entity would not want to sponsor a team. China wants/needs good imagery as it attempts to expand influence in Asia and Africa.

 

The bigger question, will there be ten competent skippers available to take on the commitment of the VOR. Will anyone from this event look to step up to that role? What will the experience level be next time around since it seems (according to some) that current skippers don't like this boat.

 

Interesting times.

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I'm not a huge fan of the boats either, but +1 on this statement. And if I'm offered a chance to live at 30 degrees of heel in 2 years as an OBR, I'll jump on it.

 

 

They don't like the VO65? Fine, Then. Don't. Sail. It. Problem solved and Knut and company can and will find sailors who will.

 

 

 

 

 

:unsure::rolleyes: you? an OBR? :lol::lol::lol:

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About the fist fight, is the one who was said to be getting drunk at the press conference (forgot the name, but from mapfre)

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I'm not a huge fan of the boats either, but +1 on this statement. And if I'm offered a chance to live at 30 degrees of heel in 2 years as an OBR, I'll jump on it.

 

 

They don't like the VO65? Fine, Then. Don't. Sail. It. Problem solved and Knut and company can and will find sailors who will.

 

 

 

 

 

:unsure::rolleyes: you? an OBR? :lol:

 

There ya go. Knut's got a OBR and skipper, now to fill the other 90+ positions :lol:

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Regarding that fist fight, and I'm getting a bit to political here, but yeah, since they didn't rape or murder anyone, they probably haven't been offered a job and an apartment in Stockholm, but they surely didn't suffer much in the slammer, that much I can guarantee :-)

 

Must say it was funny to read Google translated Swedish to English for the first time!

 

Clean, great to hear you enjoyed the hotel :-)

 

I watched the finish from the pier in Frihamnen, it was great,but of course a bit disappointing that the changed to the outermost line. I fully understand the desicion, but would have been fun to see that battle go on, even if it would have taken to long time :-P

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If I remember correctly the 65s were built with 2 VORs in mind, after which the option is open whether to continue with these or do something else. Looks to me that the 1st VOR was a huge trial run of these boats and now that the feedback is in, they can carefully start working towards V2 of the 65s, not for the next VOR, but for the one after. Having this amount of time vs the ridiculous short timeframe they had the 1st time around would give them the chance to develop something way better. This would mean that the VOR boats could get better in every single way. I hope this is what they'll do.

 

As for the 65 vs 70s performance - personally I couldn't care less as long as they look as impressive as they do! I've followed this race since the 08/09 one (had registered a VOR specific twitter account for that race to push all VOR news automatically thru it, which I later passed on to VOR themselves once they figured out their online marketing). Fell in love with Puma's 1st boat and the followed with bated breath their 2nd crazy trip to the most remote island on earth, and finally rooted for Groupama. This time around I have been glued to the YT channel and watched all the 2h+ live coverages to my SO's dismay. All of this to say that I, as a fan of the race, can't tell the difference between the 65 and 70 apart. They're plenty fast, they can still do 500+ miles per day. The biggest difference comes from them being glued together throughout the race - and that's something that puts every person on the edge of their seat - and I LOVED IT!

 

I think this VOR edition was a proof of concept - it's about getting the fans to watch it on an ongoing basis because you NEVER know when something happens on the water, while allowing more casual viewers to come and go, since there is always tight racing taking place and the details of a particular team don't make such a big impact to the racing action overall. You can have the proverbial cake and eat it, too, so to speak.

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^^^Come on... its not just the 70's they are slower than. They are slower off the wind than IMOCAs and "Life at the Extreme" wasn't meant to mean "life at an extreme angle of heel even when not sailing upwind". IMOCAs go faster single handed!

that should not happen. The 65s are not upto it so

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How many team sponsors are back for the next race WYD? My questions give me the following guesses:

 

ALVI: Out

SCA: They won't say in or out, but they did say they are satisfied with their branding exercise.

Brunel: Likely not title

Mapfre: I'll be shocked

Vestas: >50% likely in

ADOR: Unlikely

DFRT: No idea

 

The good news is that the boats are already out there, so the barriers to entry are quite minor, and I expect the following new ones:

 

African team

American team

Swedish team

Dutch Team

Were I able to be a whisper in Larry Page's ear, I'd try to get Google to sponsor an American Team. With the VOR being a B2B platform for companies, Google could just enhance its presence via a VOR team globally and maybe in new markets. CLEAN, want to make a pitch?

 

It is hard to imagine a base for an African team in part, from the size of the continent, and which country/corporation would have the funding to promote a VOR team. I think it would be fantastic to see, but a long row to hoe. With the success of DFRT, it seems improbable that China, either via DFRT or some other entity would not want to sponsor a team. China wants/needs good imagery as it attempts to expand influence in Asia and Africa.

 

The bigger question, will there be ten competent skippers available to take on the commitment of the VOR. Will anyone from this event look to step up to that role? What will the experience level be next time around since it seems (according to some) that current skippers don't like this boat.

 

Interesting times.

 

 

Re. African team: Saw them in Den Haag: https://www.facebook.com/GhanaOceanRacing

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How many team sponsors are back for the next race WYD? My questions give me the following guesses:

 

ALVI: Out

SCA: They won't say in or out, but they did say they are satisfied with their branding exercise.

Brunel: Likely not title

Mapfre: I'll be shocked

Vestas: >50% likely in

ADOR: Unlikely

DFRT: No idea

 

The good news is that the boats are already out there, so the barriers to entry are quite minor, and I expect the following new ones:

 

African team

American team

Swedish team

Dutch Team

Were I able to be a whisper in Larry Page's ear, I'd try to get Google to sponsor an American Team. With the VOR being a B2B platform for companies, Google could just enhance its presence via a VOR team globally and maybe in new markets. CLEAN, want to make a pitch?

 

It is hard to imagine a base for an African team in part, from the size of the continent, and which country/corporation would have the funding to promote a VOR team. I think it would be fantastic to see, but a long row to hoe. With the success of DFRT, it seems improbable that China, either via DFRT or some other entity would not want to sponsor a team. China wants/needs good imagery as it attempts to expand influence in Asia and Africa.

 

The bigger question, will there be ten competent skippers available to take on the commitment of the VOR. Will anyone from this event look to step up to that role? What will the experience level be next time around since it seems (according to some) that current skippers don't like this boat.

 

Interesting times.

 

 

Re. African team: Saw them in Den Haag: https://www.facebook.com/GhanaOceanRacing

 

I stand corrected. Checked out the site. A little light at the moment, but I like their mission and goal. In terms of experience and crew

 

 

Team Ghana will be the FIRST African based crew to set sail on a 40,000 nautical mile round-the world adventure. Currently, we are working to enter the Amateur Clipper World Race in 2015-16 to prepare our team for the Volvo Ocean Race in 2017-18 and the IMOCA race series.

Curious if anyone knows who may make up the team and any background. Seems like they could rival ALVI for young, low experience start to the VOR.

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How many team sponsors are back for the next race WYD? My questions give me the following guesses:

 

ALVI: Out

SCA: They won't say in or out, but they did say they are satisfied with their branding exercise.

Brunel: Likely not title

Mapfre: I'll be shocked

Vestas: >50% likely in

ADOR: Unlikely

DFRT: No idea

 

The good news is that the boats are already out there, so the barriers to entry are quite minor, and I expect the following new ones:

 

African team

American team

Swedish team

Dutch Team

Were I able to be a whisper in Larry Page's ear, I'd try to get Google to sponsor an American Team. With the VOR being a B2B platform for companies, Google could just enhance its presence via a VOR team globally and maybe in new markets. CLEAN, want to make a pitch?

 

It is hard to imagine a base for an African team in part, from the size of the continent, and which country/corporation would have the funding to promote a VOR team. I think it would be fantastic to see, but a long row to hoe. With the success of DFRT, it seems improbable that China, either via DFRT or some other entity would not want to sponsor a team. China wants/needs good imagery as it attempts to expand influence in Asia and Africa.

 

The bigger question, will there be ten competent skippers available to take on the commitment of the VOR. Will anyone from this event look to step up to that role? What will the experience level be next time around since it seems (according to some) that current skippers don't like this boat.

 

Interesting times.

 

 

Re. African team: Saw them in Den Haag: https://www.facebook.com/GhanaOceanRacing

 

I stand corrected. Checked out the site. A little light at the moment, but I like their mission and goal. In terms of experience and crew

 

 

Team Ghana will be the FIRST African based crew to set sail on a 40,000 nautical mile round-the world adventure. Currently, we are working to enter the Amateur Clipper World Race in 2015-16 to prepare our team for the Volvo Ocean Race in 2017-18 and the IMOCA race series.

Curious if anyone knows who may make up the team and any background. Seems like they could rival ALVI for young, low experience start to the VOR.

 

 

They've been around at least since the last edition of the race. Shortly afterwards it looked as if they prepare for 2014-15, but later it became silent again, or me less interested.

 

Seems there's not much team ATM, but more here: http://www.ghanaoceanracing.org/

and http://www.takebackourroutes.org/

 

Anyway, it's a cool dream, hopefully coming true for the next VOR.

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I only heard like 5 seconds, he said he wanted simpler rules, he is definitely not happy with the penalties they got...

He was upset with the penalties and put a lot of their mistakes down to Volvo organizers.

He didn't really like the boat- said it was slow and thought the 70s were 'machines'

Slow! Perhaps the 65s are slower than the 70s, but, frankly, to my ear it makes him sound like a spoiled brat. "Daddy didn't buy me the toy I wanted."

 

they are slow, heavy with keel bulbs that barely cut it. We

Well that is opinion, can you be specific? Slow compared to what? Heavy compared to what? Why does the bulb not "cut it" and if you put more weight in the bulb, would that not make it heavier?

 

Please don't compare to multi's, apples oranges and we already know they took up 15% performance hit from the VOD70, but in generally performed close to their numbers. SO I'm looking to read your analysis of what is wrong with the VO65.

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Re: "Two security guards were injured in the fight, according to police.One of them was taken to hospital with injuries unclear."

Impressively quick reaction time there by Mr Clean to be able to duck that fast, twice..

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I'm not a huge fan of the boats either, but +1 on this statement. And if I'm offered a chance to live at 30 degrees of heel in 2 years as an OBR, I'll jump on it.

 

 

They don't like the VO65? Fine, Then. Don't. Sail. It. Problem solved and Knut and company can and will find sailors who will.

 

 

 

 

I seem to have ruffled a few feathers with my comments about the boats being slow. Sure a lot of sailors who want to earn a living and want to "do a Volvo" will be more than happy if its still a viable race next time, and if bean counting is what matters most, maybe it will. However my impression is that top skippers who have a choice, like exciting sailing, and have sailed this boat, will go for something much more fun if they get the offer, and this year's guys were disappointed with the boats performance. That can't be good.

 

When the accountants get ahead of the adventurers, I begin to think things are gong downhill fast.

You have got to admit this year's race wasn't exactly "Life at the Extreme" however many time Knut tells us it was.

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I'm not a huge fan of the boats either, but +1 on this statement. And if I'm offered a chance to live at 30 degrees of heel in 2 years as an OBR, I'll jump on it.

 

 

They don't like the VO65? Fine, Then. Don't. Sail. It. Problem solved and Knut and company can and will find sailors who will.

 

 

 

 

I seem to have ruffled a few feathers with my comments about the boats being slow. Sure a lot of sailors who want to earn a living and want to "do a Volvo" will be more than happy if its still a viable race next time, and if bean counting is what matters most, maybe it will. However my impression is that top skippers who have a choice, like exciting sailing, and have sailed this boat, will go for something much more fun if they get the offer, and this year's guys were disappointed with the boats performance. That can't be good.

 

When the accountants get ahead of the adventurers, I begin to think things are gong downhill fast.

You have got to admit this year's race wasn't exactly "Life at the Extreme" however many time Knut tells us it was.

 

I don't remember if it was CLEAN or Jo who asked a related question, but Ian commented that the weather overall was not as "extreme" this round so I don't think you have a fair comparison. Knut cannot (yet) control the weather so if you have more light than heavy air...do you blame the boat? Would you be saying this if they had something like the SO, Cape Town, Cape Fast winds most the trip?

 

A Tri Maxi, a VOD70, and a VO65 drift into the ITCZ and Gods says "What'll ya have?"

The Tri says "We need wind, lots of wind to go really fast so we can even turn"

The VOD70 says "We need wind, lots of wind to go really fast, because it's the only way we look good"

The VO65 says "Fuck if I care, we look good drifting. Let those two suffer"

 

Gathered from reading, I'd rather be on that "slow" 65 when blowing a stink for my percentage of survival is better compared to the somewhat fragile 70 and a Tri that cannot rotate if blown over.

 

As to accountants...you do want to see some kind of race...yes? Otherwise we get the Corinthian Race of yesteryear with rich ego's at play. I like my blue collar Ocean Racing thank you.

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I'm not a huge fan of the boats either, but +1 on this statement. And if I'm offered a chance to live at 30 degrees of heel in 2 years as an OBR, I'll jump on it.

 

 

They don't like the VO65? Fine, Then. Don't. Sail. It. Problem solved and Knut and company can and will find sailors who will.

 

 

 

 

I seem to have ruffled a few feathers with my comments about the boats being slow. Sure a lot of sailors who want to earn a living and want to "do a Volvo" will be more than happy if its still a viable race next time, and if bean counting is what matters most, maybe it will. However my impression is that top skippers who have a choice, like exciting sailing, and have sailed this boat, will go for something much more fun if they get the offer, and this year's guys were disappointed with the boats performance. That can't be good.

 

When the accountants get ahead of the adventurers, I begin to think things are gong downhill fast.

You have got to admit this year's race wasn't exactly "Life at the Extreme" however many time Knut tells us it was.

 

Agreed, but that I think is more due to the route than the actual boats. Too many nanny/safety I mean ice gates to get them to extremes. 500 mile days aren't really that special lots of boats can do that. I want the chance to see the mono 24 hour record broken during the course of this event. These boats won't do that.

 

That being said I also don't think live 24/7 tracking is necessary. In the deep ocean on long legs the 3 hourly reports are just fine as far as I'm concerned

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65 foot race boat (draught 4.5m) sailing slowly up the river in Gothenburg city, there is a puff of wind, what do you think will happen?

1) boat goes faster

2) boat almost broaches and nearly comes to a halt

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For the first edition of a boat - the boys at Farr did a nice conservative job to ensure that they get around in one piece.

 

There were a couple of lessons learned that bit some people in the butt - ie. angled keel pin and longer fin in the southern ocean meets wave trough and tends to send the boat rotating into a chinese gybe as the bulb is so far away from the center of the boat.

 

And the boats were designed to be tippy as bashing into waves on the chine = much easier on the boat than bashing into waves at a low angle on the flatter panel sections ahead of the mast bulkhead.

 

If the boats & rigs were designed to handle a little less safety factor, they may increase the bulb size next time and speed them up. If not, it is another lap of life at the extreme.... heeling angle.

 

There is likely a crew debrief about the boats already on the calendar and they will release an updated class rule with whatever those updates are going to be.

 

Overall, the business got its media exposure, the sponsor got its couple good stories and nobody died. I still think it would have been much more interesting if they cut them loose from NZ a little earlier, but that is easy to say from my couch.

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If the VOR wants to make the next quantum leap it would surely have to be multihull. A fleet of round the world capable MOD 70's would be some spectacle.

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I found this race about as interesting as the last one.

 

I think OD is probably a good thing overall, but then again, the differences between the boats last time was very interesting. The fact that the boats lasted much better this time is also good, but then again, the stories of Puma in the Atlantic and Groupama sailing to Brazil jury-rigged and short-handed were pretty epic and very memorable. But having boats that didn't just fall apart is nice (I'm sure the sailors appreciated it).

 

The racing was very close, but I think that made it less interesting to me. The fleet tended to sail with each other, there weren't many big splits where you had to wait a few days to see who went the right way. It was often just a bunch of boats sailing along, maybe a few slowly falling off the back, and then in the last day or so you could start to tell what the finish would be like. There wasn't often a whole lot of change day-to-day, the group of boats are, next day the group of boats are here. It was cool to see how close the finishes were (but last time there were still some good finishes).

 

I thought the daily video content on youtube was a lot worse than last time, partly due to the fact that the fleet were always so close (there wasn't the story of "which choice will end up working best?", just who is currently leading the pack), and partly because it felt more like a reality TV show pitched at non-sailors, than a serious recount of what was going on. Maybe it is rose-tinted glasses, but I watched everything from the last race, but didn't bother with a lot of the daily updates this time, they just weren't that interesting.

 

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If the VOR wants to make the next quantum leap it would surely have to be multihull. A fleet of round the world capable MOD 70's would be some spectacle.

There are plenty of events out there to give us a multi fix. VOR has a long multinational mono history that gives it authenticity. It doesn't need to increase spectacle in the form of boat platform to secure its future. To the contrary ditching mono's would probably see it wither and die to be a french only event.

 

PS. I agreed with davidnumerouno. Ditch mandatory AIS transmission to unshackle them and reward naviguessing. The absence of technical info in the OBR's VOR feeds made them as boring as bat shit. Vestus crash and Dongs mast crunch the last ones I watched.

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I only heard like 5 seconds, he said he wanted simpler rules, he is definitely not happy with the penalties they got...

He was upset with the penalties and put a lot of their mistakes down to Volvo organizers.

He didn't really like the boat- said it was slow and thought the 70s were 'machines'

Slow! Perhaps the 65s are slower than the 70s, but, frankly, to my ear it makes him sound like a spoiled brat. "Daddy didn't buy me the toy I wanted."

 

they are slow, heavy with keel bulbs that barely cut it. We

Well that is opinion, can you be specific? Slow compared to what? Heavy compared to what? Why does the bulb not "cut it" and if you put more weight in the bulb, would that not make it heavier?

 

Please don't compare to multi's, apples oranges and we already know they took up 15% performance hit from the VOD70, but in generally performed close to their numbers. SO I'm looking to read your analysis of what is wrong with the VO65.

 

compared to a vo70 and open60. hulls are overbuilt (but nice n strong), bulbs are small, boats are tippy, should be able to power them up more, shouldn't have to sail with so much heel. thought it was a good race this time around, just think the boats are a little too kind and gentle for big name pro sailors, and the VOR. but, wtf do I know?

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Front page talked of a good fight with a link that led me here. WTF? Where's the fight?

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I've enjoyed this VOR event, but I think OD boats tend to render the race too one-dimensional. That is, it's now ALL about the sailors.

 

Personally, I prefer ocean racing to be about design philosophy, tactical advantage, creative routing and sailing skill - an altogether more multi-dementional contest. But that's just me.

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Comment about the race I guess

Boats were fine (apart from broken mast which was likely df fault)

Genny T was fine (apart from the stupid looking vests she always wore)

Starts and Finishes were BRILLIANT!!!!

OBR's sucked as usual - how so little content comes off the boats is shocking. Ya they hired pro photographers so we got great photos but NO CONTENT, NO CONTEXT

Don't dumb it down!

Technical analysis - yes where was this. where is the discussion of the actual polars with sail combinations, winds, tides (WTF not one graph of tidal flows), halyard tensions, sheeting angles, trimming, driving, or I date suggest tactical decisions and trying to catch wind shifts, play cloud patterns.

Ice Gates RUINED the southern legs - to see the boats drifting in the southern ocean was crap. I say ditch them altogether.

MAPFRE finish comments were terrible, production company should have ended that, sore losers (and have them end up in hospital.. sad)

Lack of coverage of Spindrift issue - come on guys, open, honesty, to pull that under the sheets is crap!

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The boats are designed to sail at 29 degrees of heel, that doesn't make them tippy, it just tells you where the optmum is.

Staysail, I have sailed on a VO65, VO70 and an AC72 if that makes you happy. And whilst I admit I haven't done much offshore recently, it is where I use to spend most of my professional life.

Clean, I don't know where they are with teams yet, but I understand that some of the one you have on the fence are confirmed and some new ones are as well. What " confirmed" means I am not 100% sure. But I am sure Knut can fill you in. If not, I will be in Gothenburg tomorrow, and you know who I am so come find me and we can have a chat.

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Charles caudrelier was interviewed in the French magazine Voiles et Voiliers. Sounds like his opinion on the VO65 is pretty much identical to Iker's

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/course-regate/volvo-ocean-race-interview-caudrelier/deliaPreview=1/

 

 

French version

Voilesetvoiliers.com : Que pensez-vous de ce monotype après un tour du monde ?
C.C :
Pour être très honnête, sans ce bateau, la course serait sans doute morte. Il s’agissait donc du meilleur choix possible. Mais le bateau en lui-même n’est pas bon. Il est lourd, peu puissant et n’est, du coup, pas très performant. Je pense que Farr n’a pas fait un boulot extraordinaire mais cela n’engage que moi. On prend peu de plaisir à naviguer à son bord. Il est difficile à naviguer comme tous les mauvais bateaux car il est super dur à faire avancer et cela rend, au final, la course intéressante. J’espère qu’il ne va pas rester longtemps. J’ai milité pour que cela bascule sur des bateaux à trois coques qui iront plus vite. La Coupe de l’America y est passée ; maintenant c’est le tour de la Volvo. C’est l’avenir. Du moins je l’espère.

 

Google translate

Voilesetvoiliers.com: What do you think of this one design after a world tour?

CC: To be very honest, without this boat, the race would probably be dead. So it was the best choice. But the ship itself is not good. It is heavy, not very powerful and is, hence, not very fast. I think Farr has not done a great job but this is only my opinion. You have little pleasure to sail on board. It is difficult to navigate like all the bad boats because it is super hard to move but it makes ultimately the interesting race. I hope he will not stay long. I campaigned for a switch to three hulls with boats that will go faster. The America's Cup has done it; Now it is the turn of Volvo. This is the future. At least I hope.

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There are two crew members of Mapfre in jail indeed. And I know one of them so I won't say their names...

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I wonder if it will affect the inport race... Hope not.

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Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

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You have the rules right.

That is why SCA did not switch crew after leg 8. As I understood they would not have been able to get combination they wanted for the last in port race.

 

How high is the chance that they are still locked up after a week?

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Chasm, thanks!

 

Ah, that makes sense then!

 

Honestly, I dont know, resisting arrest after a fight with a securityguard is probably not the best thing to do. But I really dont know how quickly the police will sort it out, if it will go to court or any such details. I havent been arrested, yet ;), especially not in those circumstances :P

This shouldnt be a complicated case, but who knows? Perhaps some politicians will put their greasy retarded fingers in this and make it all go away before saturday.

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You state things without knowing them...

 

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...

 

 

 

Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

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Change VOR finish from Sweden to Finland. You get locked up there for not fighting and being sober.

 

 

Just come in France !!!!

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You state things without knowing them...

 

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...

 

 

 

 

Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.

Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

 

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

 

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

 

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

 

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

 

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

 

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

 

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

 

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

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From the beginning to the end of the race the Mapfre campaign didn't make by give-a fuck-ometer quiver, even slightly, once. If they had disappeared in the middle of a leg it probably would have taken me a few days to notice.

Though it is true fucking anarchy that they finally make headlines when they get to shore and get smacked by some bouncers who don't have a clue, or care, who they are to make headlines!

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I will wait for yout apology once everything is clear.

 

 

 

You state things without knowing them...

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...


Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.


Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.
Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

 

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This has to be one of the silliest moments of this whole nine months. These sailors risk life and limb for 9 months only to get arrested before the whole regatta is over...Lord, look after fools and sailors for it seems hard to tell the difference.

 

Two men walk into a bar in Sweden and order some drinks. Maybe some more because hell, the just finished 39,000 miles of a sailor's version of Heaven and Hell. In what way would two security guards in a posh club start a fight with two sailors drinking?

 

Seriously, what would push two paid stiffs to just "attack" two sailors out of a crowd of people drinking. They didn't like team Mapfre? They're closet ALVI fans and trying to help them in the in-port race?

 

Y'all over think some times. How about this, two sailors walk into a bar, beat up from 39,000 miles of sailing, tired of being "good" and start to celebrate. They get loud, they get boisterous, they get drunk and they step cross the line of reason that would have told them to shut up, say "sorry, yes we'll leave" and instead felt that in that moment, they were Gods not to be told what to do. Maybe they were upset and drowning sorrows and upset drunk people tend to not really think before acting, but they idea that two guards just decide to go all postal on two sailors...just because...Soap Opera stuff.

 

We spend way too much [something] defending sailors that do stupid things when either waiting on facts, or giving benefit of the doubt to rational thought.

 

 

 

I will wait for yout apology once everything is clear.

 

 

 

You state things without knowing them...

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...


Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.


Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.
Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

 

 

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You state things without knowing them...

 

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...

 

 

 

Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.

Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

 

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

 

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

 

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

 

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

 

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

 

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

 

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

 

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

 

 

Would it change your mind if the fight started because one of the sailor's girlfriends was refused service and then grabbed by a security guard with no justification other than she was a bit loud about it? And that the girl's boyfriend was the one who picked up that guard and threw him about 8 feet? And that the guard was so shocked that a guy so much smaller than him could toss him like a plush toy? And that he was so embarrassed that he went a bit crazy and escalated the thing very quickly?

 

I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it is what is happened, would it change your opinion?

 

Let me add one layer to that: I have now had two encounters with the private security working for VOR - one here, and one in the Hague, and they are fucking ridiculous, and should be fired. I was dead sober both times, and both times an officious, jack-booted asshole got in my face for no reason at all when all they wanted to do was see my credential or ask me where I was going with a bottle of diet coke. The police and naval personnel i have met here have been great. The mall cops are out of hand, and dollars to donuts they were a big reason this whole thing happened. I just wish I left 10 minutes later so I could have seen exactly what happened when I passed by the tent.

 

Not excusing los tripulantes...but if the gossip is accurate and it was Mer involved, I'd certainly be in jail right now and the guard might have a lot more to worry about than a few short kicks to the belly.

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You state things without knowing them...

 

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...

 

 

 

Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.

Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

 

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

 

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

 

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

 

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

 

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

 

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

 

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

 

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

 

 

Would it change your mind if the fight started because one of the sailor's girlfriends was refused service and then grabbed by a security guard with no justification other than she was a bit loud about it? And that the girl's boyfriend was the one who picked up that guard and threw him about 8 feet? And that the guard was so shocked that a guy so much smaller than him could toss him like a plush toy? And that he was so embarrassed that he went a bit crazy and escalated the thing very quickly?

 

I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it is what is happened, would it change your opinion?

 

Let me add one layer to that: I have now had two encounters with the private security working for VOR - one here, and one in the Hague, and they are fucking ridiculous, and should be fired. I was dead sober both times, and both times an officious, jack-booted asshole got in my face for no reason at all when all they wanted to do was see my credential or ask me where I was going with a bottle of diet coke. The police and naval personnel i have met here have been great. The mall cops are out of hand, and dollars to donuts they were a big reason this whole thing happened. I just wish I left 10 minutes later so I could have seen exactly what happened when I passed by the tent.

 

Not excusing los tripulantes...but if the gossip is accurate and it was Mer involved, I'd certainly be in jail right now and the guard might have a lot more to worry about than a few short kicks to the belly.

 

No (at least for me).

 

In a world filled with wound tight nerves, with authorities being given a fair amount of latitude in their enforcement, the very first thing I would do, given your hypothetical, is not try to go mano e mano on someone not only paid to guard whatever, but is an extension of local authority that tends to jail first, ask questions later.

edit: I have had my moments coming across macho authority figures, but drunk or sober I had two overriding thoughts, violence is the answer of final resort, is this worthy of injury, death, or incarceration. The second would really shut my mouth, say "yes sir, I will comply sir" and go find a place where I am wanted.

 

 

According to a witness, which the GP had been in contact with, the tumult began at 20 o'clock at an afterparty for the sailing competition at the Southern Frihamnspiren, Banana pier, in Gothenburg. At least two persons have begun to fight with security guards inside a restaurant at the event area.

 

It is an after party at a restaurant at 10 PM local which can open the door to the idea that folks had already been tipping cups. Drunk people do not make great decisions, they can be hair trigger, and can create drama without realizing the consequences. Given that not just a guard, but a police officer was assaulted tells me that someone was not in a good mood.

 

Were these two sailors 100% sober? If so and got "pushed around" first then maybe they get some sympathy, but the sense I get is inebriated, testosterone filled "men" got the wrong button pushed and they stopped thinking with their head.

 

Had they not assaulted the police I figure this would go quietly away, but I'm guessing the Swedes don't take kind to baffoonery against the law. However, once cool heads prevail my hope is they get whatever equivalent of time served may be, a very large fine, a a lecture from a judge telling them how proper sailors act in port, and the worst of the charges dismissed.

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Viraproas, as soon as we know for sure that they were innocent, they'll have it :-)

 

Clean, yeah, something like that may change my opinion, still wouldn't think they were completely innocent. Of course better to not be the one who started it. But causing the most harm cannot be excused with "but he started it!" IMHO.

 

For sure i would stand up for a friend or a girlfriend, no doubt, and would use violence if everything else fails. But I wouldn't claim to be 100% innocent..

 

I try to form my opinions based on fact, logic and reason, or logic, reason and likelihood in the absence of all facts. If facts contradict my previous opinion, I will change it, I'm not religious or driven purely by emotion.

 

Bucc5062, I don't always agree with you, but in your latest reply, I fully agree :-)

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it will come out sooner or later, so why delay the info. Who are the two sailors? They are not that many big guys on Mapfre, so we could start (wrong) guessing... Anyway, are they still in jail? Two nights in a row sounds like a very harsh punishment for a pub brawl (by European standards). Did anyone get hurt?

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According to a witness, which the GP had been in contact with, the tumult began at 20 o'clock at an afterparty for the sailing competition at the Southern Frihamnspiren, Banana pier, in Gothenburg. At least two persons have begun to fight with security guards inside a restaurant at the event area.

 

It is an after party at a restaurant at 10 PM local which can open the door to the idea that folks had already been tipping cups. Drunk people do not make great decisions, they can be hair trigger, and can create drama without realizing the consequences. Given that not just a guard, but a police officer was assaulted tells me that someone was not in a good mood.

 

 

 

2000 would be 8pm, not 10. Whether that changes how drunk the sailors may have been is not for me to say, however.

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not a pub. in the village, in the Volvo Ocean Race Club, the VIP club run by the VOR a few hundred steps from the team bases.

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not a pub. in the village, in the Volvo Ocean Race Club, the VIP club run by the VOR a few hundred steps from the team bases.

 

vow. Now I understand your comment about the VOR security guys... Tom Touber's guys... dumm from them not to be able to be diplomatic...

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btw, Clean, any news from today's press conference from Knut? Any team/sponsor commitments for 2017-18? Everyone is saying that the sponsors are extremely pleased etc, but looking at the team's list you published recently here, not many are likely to repeat... still too expensive as a marketing platform??

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night.  I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

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According to a witness, which the GP had been in contact with, the tumult began at 20 o'clock at an afterparty for the sailing competition at the Southern Frihamnspiren, Banana pier, in Gothenburg. At least two persons have begun to fight with security guards inside a restaurant at the event area.

 

It is an after party at a restaurant at 10 PM local which can open the door to the idea that folks had already been tipping cups. Drunk people do not make great decisions, they can be hair trigger, and can create drama without realizing the consequences. Given that not just a guard, but a police officer was assaulted tells me that someone was not in a good mood.

 

 

 

2000 would be 8pm, not 10. Whether that changes how drunk the sailors may have been is not for me to say, however.

 

D'oh!!! That should remind me not to work and play on forums :unsure: I don't think time was the factor (remembering a nice buzz at 8 AM on the shore listening to South Side Johnny....good times)

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it will come out sooner or later, so why delay the info. Who are the two sailors? They are not that many big guys on Mapfre, so we could start (wrong) guessing... Anyway, are they still in jail? Two nights in a row sounds like a very harsh punishment for a pub brawl (by European standards). Did anyone get hurt?

 

Going with news articles two security guards were injured.

One bitten in the tumb. - Not cool but I doubt that its too much of a problem.

The other kicks to stomach and the head. - IF there were kicks to the head that one has the potential to turn out as a real problem. I don't know Swedish law but over here kicks to the head can be seen as attempted homicide. And once you get down that road a case is much harder to throw out, even if a judge will eventually do so.

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Great idea, Mr Clean. "If you take a woman, you get two".

 

Good presser. Lots of interesting discussion.

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And an even better response from Knut. IIRC asking what Mr.Cleans wife has to say about it.

(At least that is what I have heard. ;) )

 

Quite a bit of shop talk in what sounded occasionally like a normal press round table.

Certainly sounds like they have an idea how to continue from here. Lets see what happens next.

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Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

The same alcohol laws apply in the UK, how they are applied varies. Just as they do in Sweden.

 

Until the facts come out, this should just be left alone.

 

Sailors getting drunk after a long passage is not exactly a new event.

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it will come out sooner or later, so why delay the info. Who are the two sailors? They are not that many big guys on Mapfre, so we could start (wrong) guessing... Anyway, are they still in jail? Two nights in a row sounds like a very harsh punishment for a pub brawl (by European standards). Did anyone get hurt?

Going with news articles two security guards were injured.

One bitten in the tumb. - Not cool but I doubt that its too much of a problem.

The other kicks to stomach and the head. - IF there were kicks to the head that one has the potential to turn out as a real problem. I don't know Swedish law but over here kicks to the head can be seen as attempted homicide. And once you get down that road a case is much harder to throw out, even if a judge will eventually do so.

Where is over here? Just seen it happen 'over here' and the police walked over asked a few people and left.

 

Guy got up and walked away.

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Kicking.... Biting.... police or security guard you are screwed. Any immediate delay in the appearance of rational and respectable behavior no chance. Tell it to the judge. The !@#$%^&& did not serve my woman properly........ would not be the way to start the presentation of innocent victim.

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BREAKING: The VOR sailors in the fighting incident were Iker and Xabi - they were finally fighting it out to see who was the better skipper for the event. ;)

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BREAKING: The VOR sailors in the fighting incident were Iker and Xabi - they were finally fighting it out to see who was the better skipper for the event. ;)

whoa... I thought I just read that in another thread??

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BREAKING: The VOR sailors in the fighting incident were Iker and Xabi - they were finally fighting it out to see who was the better skipper for the event. ;)

 

+100

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night. I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

where's the video hotshot ???

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night. I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

where's the video hotshot ???

 

 

Patience, ingrate. Petey is back at it, but a tough day for him here in Sweden. wish him well and maybe he'll go faster.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206900739014259&set=a.1090640303495.2015785.1151127436&type=1&theater

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I've seen so many forgein drunken sailors in Spain, ... we are just striking back. ;)

 

If VOR had nothing to hide about his seccurity personel, it allready would had been published names, details, ... In my opinion it seems that VOR and MAPFRE don't get along since the very beginning.

 

Did MAPFRE sailors something wrong? Justice will say. Until then, just gosip.

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Thanks Jammen

 

This is the google Swedish - English translation:

 

A travel ban on suspects sailors

Gothenburg

 

The two Volvo Ocean Race sailors suspected of assaulting a police officer may not leave Sweden. However, they may participate in Saturday's in-port race in the port of Gothenburg.

 

The two sailors, 36 and 33 years old, was arrested just before 20:30 on Monday. They participated as a party in the course pier in the Free Port of Gothenburg.

 

At the party became the brawl and the two men will then have struck a guard.

 

Read more: Two Ocean Race sailors detained

 

The men were arrested on Monday evening and it was requested later this week arrested on suspicion of assaulting a police officer, the prosecutor Elisabeth Trouve.

 

On Thursday morning was the detention hearing at the district court in Gothenburg. Court found no reason to detain the men, but both have restrictions.

 

It basically means that they can move freely within Sweden. But they may not leave the country until the investigation is discontinued or a trial conducted.

 

The District Court's decision means that the two experienced sailors can participate in Saturday's so-called in-port race, harbor sailing in the river in central Gothenburg.

 

Criminal suspicions against the 36-year-old and 33-year-old remains.

 

Volvo Ocean Race event in Freeport ends on Sunday.

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