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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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DtM

VOR Leg 9 Lorient to Gothenburg via The Hague

665 posts in this topic

I've enjoyed this VOR event, but I think OD boats tend to render the race too one-dimensional. That is, it's now ALL about the sailors.

 

Personally, I prefer ocean racing to be about design philosophy, tactical advantage, creative routing and sailing skill - an altogether more multi-dementional contest. But that's just me.

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Comment about the race I guess

Boats were fine (apart from broken mast which was likely df fault)

Genny T was fine (apart from the stupid looking vests she always wore)

Starts and Finishes were BRILLIANT!!!!

OBR's sucked as usual - how so little content comes off the boats is shocking. Ya they hired pro photographers so we got great photos but NO CONTENT, NO CONTEXT

Don't dumb it down!

Technical analysis - yes where was this. where is the discussion of the actual polars with sail combinations, winds, tides (WTF not one graph of tidal flows), halyard tensions, sheeting angles, trimming, driving, or I date suggest tactical decisions and trying to catch wind shifts, play cloud patterns.

Ice Gates RUINED the southern legs - to see the boats drifting in the southern ocean was crap. I say ditch them altogether.

MAPFRE finish comments were terrible, production company should have ended that, sore losers (and have them end up in hospital.. sad)

Lack of coverage of Spindrift issue - come on guys, open, honesty, to pull that under the sheets is crap!

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The boats are designed to sail at 29 degrees of heel, that doesn't make them tippy, it just tells you where the optmum is.

Staysail, I have sailed on a VO65, VO70 and an AC72 if that makes you happy. And whilst I admit I haven't done much offshore recently, it is where I use to spend most of my professional life.

Clean, I don't know where they are with teams yet, but I understand that some of the one you have on the fence are confirmed and some new ones are as well. What " confirmed" means I am not 100% sure. But I am sure Knut can fill you in. If not, I will be in Gothenburg tomorrow, and you know who I am so come find me and we can have a chat.

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Charles caudrelier was interviewed in the French magazine Voiles et Voiliers. Sounds like his opinion on the VO65 is pretty much identical to Iker's

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/course-regate/volvo-ocean-race-interview-caudrelier/deliaPreview=1/

 

 

French version

Voilesetvoiliers.com : Que pensez-vous de ce monotype après un tour du monde ?
C.C :
Pour être très honnête, sans ce bateau, la course serait sans doute morte. Il s’agissait donc du meilleur choix possible. Mais le bateau en lui-même n’est pas bon. Il est lourd, peu puissant et n’est, du coup, pas très performant. Je pense que Farr n’a pas fait un boulot extraordinaire mais cela n’engage que moi. On prend peu de plaisir à naviguer à son bord. Il est difficile à naviguer comme tous les mauvais bateaux car il est super dur à faire avancer et cela rend, au final, la course intéressante. J’espère qu’il ne va pas rester longtemps. J’ai milité pour que cela bascule sur des bateaux à trois coques qui iront plus vite. La Coupe de l’America y est passée ; maintenant c’est le tour de la Volvo. C’est l’avenir. Du moins je l’espère.

 

Google translate

Voilesetvoiliers.com: What do you think of this one design after a world tour?

CC: To be very honest, without this boat, the race would probably be dead. So it was the best choice. But the ship itself is not good. It is heavy, not very powerful and is, hence, not very fast. I think Farr has not done a great job but this is only my opinion. You have little pleasure to sail on board. It is difficult to navigate like all the bad boats because it is super hard to move but it makes ultimately the interesting race. I hope he will not stay long. I campaigned for a switch to three hulls with boats that will go faster. The America's Cup has done it; Now it is the turn of Volvo. This is the future. At least I hope.

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There are two crew members of Mapfre in jail indeed. And I know one of them so I won't say their names...

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I wonder if it will affect the inport race... Hope not.

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Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

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You have the rules right.

That is why SCA did not switch crew after leg 8. As I understood they would not have been able to get combination they wanted for the last in port race.

 

How high is the chance that they are still locked up after a week?

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They both sailed the last leg...

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Change VOR finish from Sweden to Finland. You get locked up there for not fighting and being sober.

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Chasm, thanks!

 

Ah, that makes sense then!

 

Honestly, I dont know, resisting arrest after a fight with a securityguard is probably not the best thing to do. But I really dont know how quickly the police will sort it out, if it will go to court or any such details. I havent been arrested, yet ;), especially not in those circumstances :P

This shouldnt be a complicated case, but who knows? Perhaps some politicians will put their greasy retarded fingers in this and make it all go away before saturday.

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You state things without knowing them...

 

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...

 

 

 

Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

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Change VOR finish from Sweden to Finland. You get locked up there for not fighting and being sober.

 

 

Just come in France !!!!

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You state things without knowing them...

 

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...

 

 

 

 

Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.

Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

 

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

 

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

 

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

 

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

 

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

 

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

 

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

 

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

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From the beginning to the end of the race the Mapfre campaign didn't make by give-a fuck-ometer quiver, even slightly, once. If they had disappeared in the middle of a leg it probably would have taken me a few days to notice.

Though it is true fucking anarchy that they finally make headlines when they get to shore and get smacked by some bouncers who don't have a clue, or care, who they are to make headlines!

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I will wait for yout apology once everything is clear.

 

 

 

You state things without knowing them...

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...


Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.


Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.
Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

 

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This has to be one of the silliest moments of this whole nine months. These sailors risk life and limb for 9 months only to get arrested before the whole regatta is over...Lord, look after fools and sailors for it seems hard to tell the difference.

 

Two men walk into a bar in Sweden and order some drinks. Maybe some more because hell, the just finished 39,000 miles of a sailor's version of Heaven and Hell. In what way would two security guards in a posh club start a fight with two sailors drinking?

 

Seriously, what would push two paid stiffs to just "attack" two sailors out of a crowd of people drinking. They didn't like team Mapfre? They're closet ALVI fans and trying to help them in the in-port race?

 

Y'all over think some times. How about this, two sailors walk into a bar, beat up from 39,000 miles of sailing, tired of being "good" and start to celebrate. They get loud, they get boisterous, they get drunk and they step cross the line of reason that would have told them to shut up, say "sorry, yes we'll leave" and instead felt that in that moment, they were Gods not to be told what to do. Maybe they were upset and drowning sorrows and upset drunk people tend to not really think before acting, but they idea that two guards just decide to go all postal on two sailors...just because...Soap Opera stuff.

 

We spend way too much [something] defending sailors that do stupid things when either waiting on facts, or giving benefit of the doubt to rational thought.

 

 

 

I will wait for yout apology once everything is clear.

 

 

 

You state things without knowing them...

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...


Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.


Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.
Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

 

 

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You state things without knowing them...

 

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...

 

 

 

Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.

Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

 

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

 

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

 

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

 

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

 

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

 

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

 

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

 

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

 

 

Would it change your mind if the fight started because one of the sailor's girlfriends was refused service and then grabbed by a security guard with no justification other than she was a bit loud about it? And that the girl's boyfriend was the one who picked up that guard and threw him about 8 feet? And that the guard was so shocked that a guy so much smaller than him could toss him like a plush toy? And that he was so embarrassed that he went a bit crazy and escalated the thing very quickly?

 

I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it is what is happened, would it change your opinion?

 

Let me add one layer to that: I have now had two encounters with the private security working for VOR - one here, and one in the Hague, and they are fucking ridiculous, and should be fired. I was dead sober both times, and both times an officious, jack-booted asshole got in my face for no reason at all when all they wanted to do was see my credential or ask me where I was going with a bottle of diet coke. The police and naval personnel i have met here have been great. The mall cops are out of hand, and dollars to donuts they were a big reason this whole thing happened. I just wish I left 10 minutes later so I could have seen exactly what happened when I passed by the tent.

 

Not excusing los tripulantes...but if the gossip is accurate and it was Mer involved, I'd certainly be in jail right now and the guard might have a lot more to worry about than a few short kicks to the belly.

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You state things without knowing them...

 

How do you know they were not behaving themselves? Maybe the guards were a couple of cowboys who wanted to show off like 95% of bouncers... You're disrepecting those proffesionals without knowing anything about it...

 

 

 

Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

Yes, if course I don't know for sure what happened, and neither does anyone else.

Yes, a lot of guards on nightclubs are assholes with attitude problems, sometimes even on the classier clubs, but in all honesty, as someone who have been going to all kinds of clubs in Gothenburg as guest for 14 years, and as a clubpromoter and sound and light technician pretty much every other weekend for the last 5 years, I have honestly never seen the guards or the police just attack someone who was just minding their own business. Sure, it probably happens, but I assure it is not common in Gothenburg.

 

Have I seen guards being aggressive or to strict, sure, more than a few times, but it's usually because the patron isn't behaving. If you argue with the guards then you are in trouble.

 

Could this have been a case of two cowboy guards looking for a fight? Not impossible, but rather unlikely in my view.

 

If that was the case, I don't think it would have been just the guards that would have needed to visit the hospital. Who gets in to a fight just for fun if you seem unlikely to win?

 

I may of course be wrong, the sailors may have been completely calm and just walked away when the bartender stopped serving them, but the risk of the guards just attacking them in that case, at an event like this, is rather unlikely.

 

Have anyone, officially or unofficial even hinted that the sailors did nothing wrong and was simply abused by both guards and police? Not that I have seen.

 

Sweden may have a lot of issues, a number of them with bad guards and police, but on the whole, its really not that bad.

 

I have never even almost had a problem with the guards on a club/bar, and I have been asked to leave on account of being to drunk on maybe 3 occasions in 14 years. The guards were friendly and not the least bit violent, but then again, I don't behave like an asshole either.

 

If it turns out that the sailors were innocent to start with, I would gladly apologise for that part.

 

 

Would it change your mind if the fight started because one of the sailor's girlfriends was refused service and then grabbed by a security guard with no justification other than she was a bit loud about it? And that the girl's boyfriend was the one who picked up that guard and threw him about 8 feet? And that the guard was so shocked that a guy so much smaller than him could toss him like a plush toy? And that he was so embarrassed that he went a bit crazy and escalated the thing very quickly?

 

I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it is what is happened, would it change your opinion?

 

Let me add one layer to that: I have now had two encounters with the private security working for VOR - one here, and one in the Hague, and they are fucking ridiculous, and should be fired. I was dead sober both times, and both times an officious, jack-booted asshole got in my face for no reason at all when all they wanted to do was see my credential or ask me where I was going with a bottle of diet coke. The police and naval personnel i have met here have been great. The mall cops are out of hand, and dollars to donuts they were a big reason this whole thing happened. I just wish I left 10 minutes later so I could have seen exactly what happened when I passed by the tent.

 

Not excusing los tripulantes...but if the gossip is accurate and it was Mer involved, I'd certainly be in jail right now and the guard might have a lot more to worry about than a few short kicks to the belly.

 

No (at least for me).

 

In a world filled with wound tight nerves, with authorities being given a fair amount of latitude in their enforcement, the very first thing I would do, given your hypothetical, is not try to go mano e mano on someone not only paid to guard whatever, but is an extension of local authority that tends to jail first, ask questions later.

edit: I have had my moments coming across macho authority figures, but drunk or sober I had two overriding thoughts, violence is the answer of final resort, is this worthy of injury, death, or incarceration. The second would really shut my mouth, say "yes sir, I will comply sir" and go find a place where I am wanted.

 

 

According to a witness, which the GP had been in contact with, the tumult began at 20 o'clock at an afterparty for the sailing competition at the Southern Frihamnspiren, Banana pier, in Gothenburg. At least two persons have begun to fight with security guards inside a restaurant at the event area.

 

It is an after party at a restaurant at 10 PM local which can open the door to the idea that folks had already been tipping cups. Drunk people do not make great decisions, they can be hair trigger, and can create drama without realizing the consequences. Given that not just a guard, but a police officer was assaulted tells me that someone was not in a good mood.

 

Were these two sailors 100% sober? If so and got "pushed around" first then maybe they get some sympathy, but the sense I get is inebriated, testosterone filled "men" got the wrong button pushed and they stopped thinking with their head.

 

Had they not assaulted the police I figure this would go quietly away, but I'm guessing the Swedes don't take kind to baffoonery against the law. However, once cool heads prevail my hope is they get whatever equivalent of time served may be, a very large fine, a a lecture from a judge telling them how proper sailors act in port, and the worst of the charges dismissed.

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Viraproas, as soon as we know for sure that they were innocent, they'll have it :-)

 

Clean, yeah, something like that may change my opinion, still wouldn't think they were completely innocent. Of course better to not be the one who started it. But causing the most harm cannot be excused with "but he started it!" IMHO.

 

For sure i would stand up for a friend or a girlfriend, no doubt, and would use violence if everything else fails. But I wouldn't claim to be 100% innocent..

 

I try to form my opinions based on fact, logic and reason, or logic, reason and likelihood in the absence of all facts. If facts contradict my previous opinion, I will change it, I'm not religious or driven purely by emotion.

 

Bucc5062, I don't always agree with you, but in your latest reply, I fully agree :-)

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it will come out sooner or later, so why delay the info. Who are the two sailors? They are not that many big guys on Mapfre, so we could start (wrong) guessing... Anyway, are they still in jail? Two nights in a row sounds like a very harsh punishment for a pub brawl (by European standards). Did anyone get hurt?

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According to a witness, which the GP had been in contact with, the tumult began at 20 o'clock at an afterparty for the sailing competition at the Southern Frihamnspiren, Banana pier, in Gothenburg. At least two persons have begun to fight with security guards inside a restaurant at the event area.

 

It is an after party at a restaurant at 10 PM local which can open the door to the idea that folks had already been tipping cups. Drunk people do not make great decisions, they can be hair trigger, and can create drama without realizing the consequences. Given that not just a guard, but a police officer was assaulted tells me that someone was not in a good mood.

 

 

 

2000 would be 8pm, not 10. Whether that changes how drunk the sailors may have been is not for me to say, however.

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not a pub. in the village, in the Volvo Ocean Race Club, the VIP club run by the VOR a few hundred steps from the team bases.

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not a pub. in the village, in the Volvo Ocean Race Club, the VIP club run by the VOR a few hundred steps from the team bases.

 

vow. Now I understand your comment about the VOR security guys... Tom Touber's guys... dumm from them not to be able to be diplomatic...

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btw, Clean, any news from today's press conference from Knut? Any team/sponsor commitments for 2017-18? Everyone is saying that the sponsors are extremely pleased etc, but looking at the team's list you published recently here, not many are likely to repeat... still too expensive as a marketing platform??

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night.  I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

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According to a witness, which the GP had been in contact with, the tumult began at 20 o'clock at an afterparty for the sailing competition at the Southern Frihamnspiren, Banana pier, in Gothenburg. At least two persons have begun to fight with security guards inside a restaurant at the event area.

 

It is an after party at a restaurant at 10 PM local which can open the door to the idea that folks had already been tipping cups. Drunk people do not make great decisions, they can be hair trigger, and can create drama without realizing the consequences. Given that not just a guard, but a police officer was assaulted tells me that someone was not in a good mood.

 

 

 

2000 would be 8pm, not 10. Whether that changes how drunk the sailors may have been is not for me to say, however.

 

D'oh!!! That should remind me not to work and play on forums :unsure: I don't think time was the factor (remembering a nice buzz at 8 AM on the shore listening to South Side Johnny....good times)

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it will come out sooner or later, so why delay the info. Who are the two sailors? They are not that many big guys on Mapfre, so we could start (wrong) guessing... Anyway, are they still in jail? Two nights in a row sounds like a very harsh punishment for a pub brawl (by European standards). Did anyone get hurt?

 

Going with news articles two security guards were injured.

One bitten in the tumb. - Not cool but I doubt that its too much of a problem.

The other kicks to stomach and the head. - IF there were kicks to the head that one has the potential to turn out as a real problem. I don't know Swedish law but over here kicks to the head can be seen as attempted homicide. And once you get down that road a case is much harder to throw out, even if a judge will eventually do so.

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Great idea, Mr Clean. "If you take a woman, you get two".

 

Good presser. Lots of interesting discussion.

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And an even better response from Knut. IIRC asking what Mr.Cleans wife has to say about it.

(At least that is what I have heard. ;) )

 

Quite a bit of shop talk in what sounded occasionally like a normal press round table.

Certainly sounds like they have an idea how to continue from here. Lets see what happens next.

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Well, there is a rule saying something like all sailors taking part in an Inport race shall sail either the preceding or following leg. Since there is no following offshore leg, all sailors onboard should be required to have done Leg 9. If the 2 Mapfre sailors did Leg 9, and are still arrested come saturday, should Mapfre really be allowed to bring in two extra sailors, against the rules as I understand them, just because some of there sailors cant behave themselves when drinking?

 

We do have rather strict alcohol laws in Sweden, to strict according to many here. For example, the law basically says that you are not allowed to serve anyone that is drunk or "under the influence". The difficult part is deciding when someone is to drunk. It is of course quite common that people get upset and end up fighting with the guards when the bartender stops serving them.

 

Personally, I think Mapfre should be made to sail 2 men short, if their guys are still locked up on saturday.

 

Of course, I may have misunderstood the rule about bringing in sailors just for an Inport race, but I dont think so. Teams have sailed with less then full crew on the Inports before in this edition since someone wasnt able to sail a specific race, cant remember which team and port it was though.

The same alcohol laws apply in the UK, how they are applied varies. Just as they do in Sweden.

 

Until the facts come out, this should just be left alone.

 

Sailors getting drunk after a long passage is not exactly a new event.

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it will come out sooner or later, so why delay the info. Who are the two sailors? They are not that many big guys on Mapfre, so we could start (wrong) guessing... Anyway, are they still in jail? Two nights in a row sounds like a very harsh punishment for a pub brawl (by European standards). Did anyone get hurt?

Going with news articles two security guards were injured.

One bitten in the tumb. - Not cool but I doubt that its too much of a problem.

The other kicks to stomach and the head. - IF there were kicks to the head that one has the potential to turn out as a real problem. I don't know Swedish law but over here kicks to the head can be seen as attempted homicide. And once you get down that road a case is much harder to throw out, even if a judge will eventually do so.

Where is over here? Just seen it happen 'over here' and the police walked over asked a few people and left.

 

Guy got up and walked away.

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Kicking.... Biting.... police or security guard you are screwed. Any immediate delay in the appearance of rational and respectable behavior no chance. Tell it to the judge. The !@#$%^&& did not serve my woman properly........ would not be the way to start the presentation of innocent victim.

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BREAKING: The VOR sailors in the fighting incident were Iker and Xabi - they were finally fighting it out to see who was the better skipper for the event. ;)

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BREAKING: The VOR sailors in the fighting incident were Iker and Xabi - they were finally fighting it out to see who was the better skipper for the event. ;)

whoa... I thought I just read that in another thread??

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BREAKING: The VOR sailors in the fighting incident were Iker and Xabi - they were finally fighting it out to see who was the better skipper for the event. ;)

 

+100

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night. I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

where's the video hotshot ???

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night. I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

where's the video hotshot ???

 

 

Patience, ingrate. Petey is back at it, but a tough day for him here in Sweden. wish him well and maybe he'll go faster.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206900739014259&set=a.1090640303495.2015785.1151127436&type=1&theater

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I've seen so many forgein drunken sailors in Spain, ... we are just striking back. ;)

 

If VOR had nothing to hide about his seccurity personel, it allready would had been published names, details, ... In my opinion it seems that VOR and MAPFRE don't get along since the very beginning.

 

Did MAPFRE sailors something wrong? Justice will say. Until then, just gosip.

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Thanks Jammen

 

This is the google Swedish - English translation:

 

A travel ban on suspects sailors

Gothenburg

 

The two Volvo Ocean Race sailors suspected of assaulting a police officer may not leave Sweden. However, they may participate in Saturday's in-port race in the port of Gothenburg.

 

The two sailors, 36 and 33 years old, was arrested just before 20:30 on Monday. They participated as a party in the course pier in the Free Port of Gothenburg.

 

At the party became the brawl and the two men will then have struck a guard.

 

Read more: Two Ocean Race sailors detained

 

The men were arrested on Monday evening and it was requested later this week arrested on suspicion of assaulting a police officer, the prosecutor Elisabeth Trouve.

 

On Thursday morning was the detention hearing at the district court in Gothenburg. Court found no reason to detain the men, but both have restrictions.

 

It basically means that they can move freely within Sweden. But they may not leave the country until the investigation is discontinued or a trial conducted.

 

The District Court's decision means that the two experienced sailors can participate in Saturday's so-called in-port race, harbor sailing in the river in central Gothenburg.

 

Criminal suspicions against the 36-year-old and 33-year-old remains.

 

Volvo Ocean Race event in Freeport ends on Sunday.

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I love translations

 

 

The District Court's decision means that the two experienced sailors can participate in Saturday's so-called in-port race, harbor sailing in the river in central Gothenburg.

 

It seems the Swedes prefer the more specific identifier of Harbor Sailing, and why not, it is technically a harbor :) they are sailing and I guess with swedes, if you are sailing...you are by definition racing :lol:

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The two sailors 36 (André?) and 33 (Antonio?) are not allowed to leave Sweden until the investigation and court case is over. The prosecutor wanted them remanded in custody but the court deemed it not necessary. The two are free to travel around Sweden, but not leave the country. Kunt says this is serious and he is dissapointed - by the events.

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....

 

The two sailors, 36 and 33 years old,...

 

If that information is correct and they are in Mapfre's race crew, only two people comply with that, and they're not the skippers nor the navigator.

 

That was interesting research. Were this the US it would be a given that the names would have not just been released, but to some extent spun to fit some context (I'd write them, but not my style). It is nice to see a country that attempts to protect privacy (to some degree) of even non-citizens from the press. How long it lasts? Well I got my answer, but will follow the Swedish example.

 

Edit: I see I got Ninja'd by peterdane who confirmed my research, but elected to go to print :unsure:

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Would it change your mind if the fight started because one of the sailor's girlfriends was refused service and then grabbed by a security guard with no justification other than she was a bit loud about it? And that the girl's boyfriend was the one who picked up that guard and threw him about 8 feet? And that the guard was so shocked that a guy so much smaller than him could toss him like a plush toy? And that he was so embarrassed that he went a bit crazy and escalated the thing very quickly?

 

 

So to put it another way, drunk girl is refused service. Drunk girl gets mouthy. Guard "grabs her". Boy-friend throws guard across the room.

 

No that wouldn't change my mind.

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night. I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

 

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

 

where's the video hotshot ???

Hey! Fucking back off!

 

Petey is dealing with a personal tragedy right now, like Clean said. If you knew, you would have more respect

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video has been on front page for a few hours. sorry to run, been driving around all day setting up tomorrow's talk show with the winners.

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night. I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

 

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

 

where's the video hotshot ???
Hey! Fucking back off!

 

Petey is dealing with a personal tragedy right now, like Clean said. If you knew, you would have more respect

+10

 

My condolences to Petey, what he's going through is pretty hard mentally.

 

Thanks for posting the audio first Clean, good interview with a some nice info!

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yeah but you're british

 

So it says on my passport. Brits abroad, well known for their quiet and restrained behaviour, especially when drink is involved.

 

Not one of your brighter ripostes, Clean.

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yeah but you're british

 

So it says on my passport. Brits abroad, well known for their quiet and restrained behaviour, especially when drink is involved.

 

Sarcasm?

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yeah but you're british

So it says on my passport. Brits abroad, well known for their quiet and restrained behaviour, especially when drink is involved.

Sarcasm?

You mean as in "Brits and Europeans are well known for their lack of mastering sarcasm and other subtle forms of humour " or "so cal people are well known for their cultural awareness "? ;)

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night. I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

 

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

where's the video hotshot ???

Hey! Fucking back off!

 

Petey is dealing with a personal tragedy right now, like Clean said. If you knew, you would have more respect

 

but i didnt know, so pipe down fukko .

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petey has some very personal and sad family issues going on so I've freed him for the night. I uploaded the audio (missed the first question) so that the die-hards can listen before the full video is up.

 

Knut Frostad's Media "Round Table" At the Finish of the @VolvoOceanRace With a Few Tough Questions by Sailing Anarchy on Mixcloud

where's the video hotshot ???

 

 

Patience, ingrate. Petey is back at it, but a tough day for him here in Sweden. wish him well and maybe he'll go faster.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206900739014259&set=a.1090640303495.2015785.1151127436&type=1&theater

 

no way i could have known that, was just giving you shit. my apologies and condolences buddy .

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Thanks Clean that was one of the best interviews with Knutsters to date, very interesting. Comment about preference for more national teams than just more teams especially. That preference not compatible with getting rid of mono's I suggest unless by national he means North Brittany, South Brittany.....

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