• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Christian

Team Vestas Wind getting some flak in Danish newspaper

Recommended Posts

Here is a news article from a danish newspaper.

 

 

In the piece there are several pretty harsh comments:

 

"the boat is promoted as a Danish boat - and a skipper on a boat like TVW must, according to Danish Law, have the highest Danish navigational formal education. Breaking this law means fines and/or jail time for the skipper and the responsible at Vestas - if the ship is Danish" Guess they skirted that one by the boat being registered in the Cayman Islands, which has a much more lax law governing ships and it's crew.

 

The piece continues to bash TWW for circumventing Danish and International law for seafaring vessels by having the boat registered in the Caymans - "the important issue is that the boat and its crew was put in a dangerous situation, which would have not been the case if Danish "Sea Law" had been followed"

 

"Wouter has carried the responsibility for what happened on his shoulders. He has admitted mistakes, but the bigger and wider responsibility lies with the Skipper, Chris Nicholson" (Cambell Field)

 

"Chris Nicholson has taken on a task that he is not educated to take on and that he clearly could not carry out. He is responsible for the crash and has due to his incompetence and lack of ability to make the right calls put the crew in mortal danger" (Skafte-Holm)

 

"Vestas emphasizes that the crew must live up to the ethical guidance of the company Code of Conduct. In this it says - Vestas employees must only take on tasks that he/she has been trained for.

 

Both Knut and the Vestas Marketing Head both go on to say that they do not consider CN to be incompetent - mostly based on his previous VOR experience

 

Harsh words from some of my fellow countrymen - BUT - there is some truth to it IHMO.

 

 

Eksperter: Vestas brød regler i forlist milliondyrt bådeventyr

Vestas Wind blev promoveret som en dansk båd i Volvo Ocean Race, sejlsportens Formel 1, selv om den kun skal overholde lovgivningen på Cayman Islands. Det møder hård kritik fra eksperter.

TROELS HENRIKSEN
FØLG
TOBIAS ROED JENSEN
FØLG

Da Vestas Wind i november 2014 forliste i Det Indiske Ocean i sejlsportens Formel 1, Volvo Ocean Race, skete det med en skipper, der ikke er uddannet navigatør.

Båden er blevet promoveret som dansk, og en skipper på en båd som Vestas Wind skal ifølge dansk lovgivning netop have Danmark højeste navigationsuddannelse. Et brud på loven giver bøde eller fængsel til skipperen, Chris Nicholson, samt de ansvarlige hos rederen, der ifølge søfartsstyrelsen i dette tilfælde er Vestas, hvis båden er dansk.

 

»Vi fik ikke zoomet nok ind på øen«

 

Dansk lov er bare ikke brudt. Vestas Winds spanske ejer under Volvo har registreret den på Cayman Islands, og dermed gælder ø-statens lempeligere lovgivning.

Flere eksperter anklager i forlængelse af valget med Chris Nicholson som skipper og registreringen på Cayman Islands Vestas og Nicholson for at bryde "den vigtigste" af De Internationale Søfartsregler.

"Det helt afgørende er, at jeg mener, at skibet og skibets besætning er blevet bragt i en faresituation, som de ikke havde været i, hvis man havde fulgt dansk lovgivning. Så havde man haft en bedre uddannet besætning om bord," siger Peter Ingham, dansk skibsingeniør, navigatør og uddanner af navigatører på egen søfartsskole.

 

»Vi er stødt på grund, og vi bliver presset op mod et koralrev«

 

Han suppleres af den new zealandske navigatør Campbell Field, som i forskellige roller har deltaget i fire udgaver af Volvo Ocean Race. Navigatøren på Vestas Wind, Wouter Verbraak, var den eneste, som blev fyret efter forliset, og Field mener, at han blev gjort til syndebuk.

"Wouter Verbraak har båret ansvaret på sine skuldre for, hvad der skete. Han har indrømmet fejl, men der er et bredere ansvar, og det ligger hos skipperen Chris Nicholson," siger Campbell Field.

Vestas understreger, at besætningen skal leve op til virksomhedens etiske retningslinjer ”Code of Conduct”. I den står, at Vestas-medarbejdere kun må påtage sig opgaver, »han/hun er trænet til.«

 

Vestas-kaptajn glæder sig over besætning i god behold

 

Det bider navigatør Philipp Skafte-Holm mærke i. Han har sejlet over 100.000 sømil og deltaget i fire Admiral Cups, der tidligere var sejlsportens uofficielle verdensmesterskab i havkapsejlads.

»Chris Nicholson har påtaget sig en opgave som han ikke er uddannet til og som han tydeligvis ikke kunne udføre. Han er ansvarlig for Vestas forlis og har på grund af sin inkompetence og manglende dømmekraft udsat besætningen for livsfare,« siger Skafte-Holm.

Volvo Ocean Race henviser til, at Chris Nicholson er en yderst erfaren sejler med blandt andet fire Volvo Ocean Races bag sig.

"Tror du, at skipperen på Vestas ikke lever op til et givent niveau? Hvis folk mener det, er det folk, som ikke ved, hvad de taler om. Skipperen på Volvo Ocean Race har fuldført fire Volvo Ocean Races. Han blev nummer to i det seneste som skipper for det mest respekterede hold i sejlads nemlig Team New Zealand. Hvis du mener, at han ville blive udvalgt som skipper for Team New Zealand uden at være en kvalificeret skipper, vil jeg gerne høre, hvem i Danmark, der mener, at en anden er bedre, og hvem de så peger på," siger organisationens adm. direktør Knut Frostad.

Vestas afviser også kritikken.

"Vi har igennem hele forløbet haft fuld til vores skipper Chris Nicholson," udtaler kommunikationsdirektør for Vestas Wind, Morten Kamp Jørgensen.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another thing, if the boat is registerd in the Caymans, they are nor allowed to fly a Dansih flag of the transom..... probably applies to most boats in the fleet

 

A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a ridiculous article.

 

"Chris Nicholson has taken on a task that he is not educated to take on and that he clearly could not carry out. He is responsible for the crash and has due to his incompetence and lack of ability to make the right calls put the crew in mortal danger" (Skafte-Holm)

 

So every driver that has ever been in a car accident (pilot of a plane - insert other disaster scenario here) ... is incompetent and lacks an ability to make the right call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately the world seems to be moving to a place where a piece of paper is the only proof that you are competent in anything, so we get people whose only knowledge is theoretical and have never actually done anything holding themselves out as experts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately the world seems to be moving to a place where a piece of paper is the only proof that you are competent in anything, so we get people whose only knowledge is theoretical and have never actually done anything holding themselves out as experts.

 

+1 (and I am someone who is formally educated!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which part is true?

 


 

Harsh words from some of my fellow countrymen - BUT - there is some truth to it IHMO.

 


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Which part is true?

 

 

Harsh words from some of my fellow countrymen - BUT - there is some truth to it IHMO.

 

 

 

 

What about this?

 

"Wouter has carried the responsibility for what happened on his shoulders. He has admitted mistakes, but the bigger and wider responsibility lies with the Skipper, Chris Nicholson" (Cambell Field)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's an old quote, first made here or on CF's blog if i remember correctly. Not speaking Danish, I am asking if there is anything factually accurate in the article that isn't something someone else wrote months ago? Christian says 'some truth.' Which truth?

 

 

 

Which part is true?

 


 

Harsh words from some of my fellow countrymen - BUT - there is some truth to it IHMO.

 


 

 

 

What about this?

 

"Wouter has carried the responsibility for what happened on his shoulders. He has admitted mistakes, but the bigger and wider responsibility lies with the Skipper, Chris Nicholson" (Cambell Field)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are very few ships and cargo vessels that are registered in the country that they are associated with, most are registered under "flags of convenience" like Monrovia, the Cayman Islands or Bermuda so no surprise that Volvo boats are registered in the Caymans. I worked as a navigating officer for a large British oil company and at that time all but one of their fleet of 25 or so ships was registered under a foreign flag.

 

I would imagine that the guys that race these boats round the world are eminently more qualified to complete their task than any fully qualified ship captain. Paper doesn't make you competent. Shit, I was navigating a 300,000 ton oil tanker all over the globe for eight hours a day at 20 yrs old.

 

 

Bottom line, the guy screwed up. I'm going to read the book and as long as he owns his mistake then thats ok by me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many people wrote a similar sentiment at the time; in other words, it is not news. So, Danish speakers, what news of note is in the piece, or is it just opinion?

 

Goog trans ain't helping much.

 

 

 

 

 

Just because someone else wrote it ages ago does not stop it from being truth...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are very few ships and cargo vessels that are registered in the country that they are associated with, most are registered under "flags of convenience" like Monrovia, the Cayman Islands or Bermuda so no surprise that Volvo boats are registered in the Caymans. I worked as a navigating officer for a large British oil company and at that time all but one of their fleet of 25 or so ships was registered under a foreign flag.

 

I would imagine that the guys that race these boats round the world are eminently more qualified to complete their task than any fully qualified ship captain. Paper doesn't make you competent. Shit, I was navigating a 300,000 ton oil tanker all over the globe for eight hours a day at 20 yrs old.

 

 

Bottom line, the guy screwed up. I'm going to read the book and as long as he owns his mistake then thats ok by me.

That's too literal and argument I think. The general tone seems to be "It's got a Danish flag on it yet the behavior of the team and sponsor does not reflect Danish standards of behavior or our long standing maritime tradition", That would resonate with the Danes I know. They are pretty protective of their flag and national identity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have tried to translate the whole thing - it jumps a lot as I cant transfer the layout - so I hope it makes sense. Apologies for the English.

 

By Trouels Henriksen - Jyllands-Posten:

Wouter Verbraak had never before been trapped. Properly trapped. He had never experienced being in a situation he could not envisage a way out of. Not until now.
Wouter is together with eight others on board the yacht Vestas Wind, one of seven yachts competing in what is billed as sailings Formula 1, the Volvo Ocean Race. But Vestas is no longer a racing yacht of carbon and sails. It is more like a timber raft after it has rammed into a reef in the Indian Ocean at 30-35km/h. Both rudders have broken away, but the boat is not stuck on the reef, it is with the help of the wind and waves being thrown further onto the reef which it has hit 5-10 minutes earlier. Again and again. The impact is huge and it is difficult for Chris Nicholson and his crew to hold on.
The crew tries, but does not succeed to get the boat off the reef. Big waves washes over the boats bow and side, Wouter Verbraak thinks they must be three to four metres high. And as Wouter later says to Sailing Anarchy, “Everything on that reef is there to destroy you”.
The time is just after 19:00 on 29th November 2014. The sun has set and that makes it harder to handle the situation. The nine men cannot get off the boat, the waves are too wild, the surroundings too uncertain.
They call Mayday over the VHF, the local coast guard answers, as does a local fishing vessel. But this is the Indian Ocean. 300kms north of Mauritius, more than 400 kms east of Madagascar. The fishing vessel says it can only get to them at dawn.
Skipper Chris Nicholson gets hold of Volvo Ocean Race, Race Control. “We are on a reef, we cant get off. We are fucked” says the Australian.

*
The crew survived on what appears to be a Danish boat in the world's toughest and biggest race, the Volvo Ocean Race. It was "noteworthy" that no one died, according to the 80-page independent report, which was made after the grounding. The report was commissioned by the Volvo Ocean Race and written by the Australian Admiral Chris Oxenbould, the American navigator Stan Honey and the American sailor and lecturer on maritime safety Chuck Hawley. We shall call it the "Volvo Report”.

Jyllands-Posten has looked at the causes of one of the most dramatic events in Danish yachting history after having gotten wind of that skipper Chris Nicholson should have broken Danish Navigation Code and face a fine or 1-2 years in prison. The picture turned out to be more nuanced than that. Nicholson has not broken Danish law, but three experts criticise him, Volvo and Vestas in several areas. Amongst others for violating the international maritime rules and Vestas’ own Code of Conduct.
Navigator and meteorologist Wouter Verbraak has admitted that he made a big mistake before the grounding. He was, according to three new critics of Vestas, Volvo Ocean Race and skipper Chris Nicholson mistakenly made into the only scapegoat.

"Absolute responsibility '
Unlike the Dutch navigator Wouter Verbraak, it was the Australian captain, Chris Nicholson, who was awake when Vestas Wind hit the reef. He had the watch, and a on boat the captain decides. Nicholson knew this well.
"He was fully aware of its absolute responsibility as the person in charge of the safety of the boat and the people on board," says the "Volvo Report".
Yet Verbraak and not Nicholson got fired. By Nicholson. Not by the Australian skipper’s employer Vestas who instead handed the decisions about the consequences for the crew to no other than Nicholson.
"It compares to sailing from Elsinore with a new navigator and sail into Anholt. It cannot be the sleeping navigators error. The responsibility lies with the person who takes over the watch and takes responsibility, "says Philipp Shank-Holm who is one of three critics. He is an experienced sailor and trained navigator, who has over the last 40 years sailed more than 100.000 nautical miles on the worlds oceans. He has participated in four Admirals Cup’s, used to be deemed as the World Championships of ocean racing. He is one of four people who criticise Vestas, Volvo and Chris Nicholson in this matter. The other three are Campbell Field, Peter Ingham and Fritz Ganzhorn. Field is from New Zealand and has participated in three Volvo Ocean Races and was navigator in two of them. He was also technical manager for a team in a fourth Volvo and is a professional navigator. Peter Ingham is a naval engineer and qualified yacht master to the highest level in Denmark, Ganzhorn is director of Sjøfartens Ledere (Seafearers managers), a union for employees in the naval industry. The three has looked carefully into the grounding of Vestas Wind.

*
In June 2014, Vestas gets an offer they cannot refuse. Volvo Ocean Race has an opening in their race and they offer it to Vestas. “It is by far the largest sponsorship we have ever partaken in… we do it after careful consideration and we know exactly what we want from it” explains Morten Albæk the then communications and marketing director for Vestas. He is telling us about the first Danish only sponsored boat in the Volvo Ocean Race.

*
Many things about the boat is Danish. The sponsor is Vestas, the crew are all members of the Royal Danish Yacht Club. The boat belongs in Tuborg Havn, and Vestas Wind carries a Danish marine flag during training. The boat is 22 metres long and carries a crew of 9. According to Danish Maritime law, any leisure vessel over 15 metres, but below 24 metres, that sail outside Scandinavia and the British Isles, has to have a skipper with the highest Yacht Master qualifications in Denmark, or equivalent. The so called Yacht skipper 1 exam. Chris Nicholson is the skipper of Vestas Wind, but he has no such qualification.
One would therefore think that the “law regarding the ships crew” that includes all Danish vessels apart from combatting ships and crew carrying vessels had been broken. The responsible would be the skipper, Nicholson and the owner, in this case Vestas, according to the Maritime Agency. If the law was broken, those responsible would face imprisonment for one year and as well as fines. The punishment could increase to two years if the breach was intentional and with gross negligence, and if an economic gain was gained or intended, hereunder also a saving.

Cayman Islands
But all this changes though by the fact that Vestas Wind does not have to abide by Danish legislation. It is owned by VFS Commercial Services in Spain, who have registered Vestas Wind in the Cayman Islands in the Caribbean. The Cayman Islands are a part of the Commonwealth and boats here sail under the legislation of both the islands and British’ legislation.
The requirements for qualifications of a skipper is much more lenient in the Cayman Islands than in Denmark. According to the authorities on the island, Cayman Maritime, the owner of Vestas Wind, VFS Commercial Services just have to ensure that the yacht is appropriately crewed.

The registration in the Cayman Island is criticised by Fritz Ganzhorn from Sjøfartens Leders. He gives a comparison: “If you board the DFDS boat to Oslo, you have faith that it is in fact a Danish ship. We can see the Danish flag, it has Danish crew and we have an expectation that Danish rules are being followed. It would create an uproar should we find out that the boat to Oslo was in fact a Cayman Island boat and therefore could adhere to a lower standard of qualification of the crew”

*

The challenge to get to the start of the race is enormous for Vestas Wind. Never before has a boat had such a short preparation time for an around the world yacht race. The minimum requirement is that each boat has to sail 3700nm non stop on the ocean before the start of the race, and be in Alicante, Spain, by 9AM on 8th September 2014. Vestas Wind can just manage a continuous week at sea before they arrive in Alicante just hours before the deadline. As a comparison, Brunel has sailed 30.000 nm and Team SCA has more than ten months longer preparation time than Team Vestas, and several boats sail across the Atlantic and back. This short preparation time is in the Volvo Report named as one of the causes behind the grounding of Vestas Wind. “We did not have much time with Vestas, so we did not manage to do all the preparations” said Wouter Verbraak when he held a talk on amongst other things, the grounding, in Denmark on May 5th.
*

Volvo Ocean Race’s Managing Director Knut Frostad says regarding the registration in the Cayman Islands: “It is one of the best places to register larger sailing yachts. They don't have as much bureaucracy and it is a fast registration with low fees. Cayman Islands have also got a good legal structure, which is important to the owner to safeguard their values” explains Frostad, and he denies that the registration has anything to do with avoiding the stricter Danish legislation. “There is nothing illegal in this. I can understand that some think that the boat should be registered in Denmark when you have a Danish team, but I dont agree with them. There is no law saying that you should register a boat in Denmark because the main sponsor of the boat is Danish.”

Unethical and bad business moral
The registration is met with criticism.
“It is unethical and bad business moral to have a Danish sponsored boat, representing Denmark in a race, and then behind the scenes have it registered in a country that significantly reduces the safety of the crew due to very convenient rules regarding the qualifications of the boats skipper and navigators”, says yacht master teacher Peter Ingham. “You proclaim to the whole world that we have a Danish yacht, with Danish crew, sponsored by a Danish company and then it turns out that they mislead people to think this is a Danish boat, but in fact, it has nothing to do with Denmark. Nothing” explains Ingham.

*

Vestas Wind has problems with the electronics during the first leg from Spain to South Africa. The preparations for the leg from South Africa to the United Arab Emirates is according to Verbraak’s talk, hectic. Volvo also changes the route less than 24 hours before the second leg starts.
“I don’t agree with that at all. We changed the route for safety reasons, more than 11 days before Vestas Wind reached the area of the reef where they grounded. The report also concludes that the change of route did not cause the grounding” says Volvo Ocean Race Managing Director Knut Frostad.

It says in the Volvo Report however, that four out of seven contributing factors to the grounding has to do with the preparations and the programme up to the start of leg two. One of the points are “a late change to the sailing instructions with an amendment to the exclusion zone and the allowed racing area”.

In other words: Wouter Verbraak is sat in Cape Town, fighting a fight on several fronts. He need the electronics to work. He has to build a plan for leg two, and Vestas Wind is under staffed. “Where as most of the teams had someone to help the navigator in preparations, we only had a meterologist on the phone, solely concentrating on the weather” says Wouter to Jyllands-Posten.

The weather - that becomes a factor too. In the Indian Ocean a tropical depression is developing. Since the 2008-09 race it has not been allowed to sail through a large area east of Africa due to the fear of pirates. This threat is no longer so great, and because of the tropical depression, Volvo Ocean Race decide to allow the boats to sail closer to Africa. This takes the boats passed the Caragados Carjados Shoals, the reef that Vestas Wind hits.
Several of the teams complain that their preparations of the leg has been ruined due to the late change. “They opened an area that we had not researched on the paper charts. We had very little time to research before the leg” says Verbraak.

Vestas Wind departs from Cape Town with this history: The electronics has yet to function properly and they have had a change of the course less than 24 hours before the race starts. The crew sets sail towards one of the most deserted areas of the planet. To an area that has not been researched by the crew, with just one man on board with the training to do so. They have no idea that their course is set towards a reef that sticks out of the water.

The conditions make is difficult for Verbraak to have time for everything, as he is the only one who can do navigation onboard. Chris Nicholson, the skipper is no navigation expert. “He has never been a distinct navigator on a yacht and as such he has never done everything that you do when you take responsibility for the navigation” says the professional navigator Campbell Field. This is confirmed by the Volvo Report.

No knowledge of navigation
“The skipper of Vestas Wind did not claim to have any in depth knowledge of navigation or the navigation systems on board” is states in the report.
Wouter Verbraak said it like this “Apart from myself it was Rob Salthouse (watch captain. Red) that was the one on the boat with the most knowledge about navigation. The other watch captain Maciel Ciccetti has not got a background in any navigation and neither does Chris Nicholson” he said at his talk in Denmark.
Vestas confirms for Jyllands Posten that Chris Nicholsons knowledge of navigation comes from experience.

“Most of the skippers in the Volvo Ocean Race do not have a yacht masters as such. They become skippers because of experience over time. Nicholson is no exception to this” writes Vestas.
In the Volvo Ocean Race it varies enormously from boat to boat, how much the skipper participates in the navigation. On some boats he acts almost like a co-navigator. This was not the case on Vestas Wind. There, Chris Nicholson delegated the whole job to Wouter Verbraak.
According to New Zealander Campbell Field is this a risk. “Wouter Verbraak was the only navigator and the only one on board that knew how to use the digital equipment. Who is meant to keep an eye on situations that develop when he is not on watch and is asleep? You have to have support, and I don't know if they had defined that or not” he explains.

Expects to be woken up
The defined relationship is according to the Volvo Report that Verbraak expects to be woken up when there is doubt or at important junctures in the race.
He was not woken before Vestas ran aground, and as such according to the critics, Vestas did not have anyone on deck with any navigational expertise to identify the danger.
The opinion of skipper Chris Nicholson’s ability varies enormously according to who you ask. According to Vestas, the right qualifications are achieved through the experience Nicholson has.
Volvo Ocean Race director Knut Frostad, says there is no requirement that the yachts skippers should have any qualifications in navigations. Also because there is no international standard for was these things. “Most countries have individual courses. It has no qualification for us if you have participated in a yacht masters class in Denmark. We know that anybody can participate in a class that lasts a few weeks, and will therefore not in its own right qualify you to do the task that the Volvo Ocean Race sailors face” explains Frostad
The Danish yacht master teacher Peter Ingham tells us that the Danish qualifications can not be achieved in less than three months if one as Nicholson has no navigational qualifications from before, and in the UK it can not be achieved in less than six months.

The two Danish navigators Peter Ingham and Philipp Skafte-Holm points to Nicholson’s lack of qualification as the cause of the grounding. Ingham says that international Maritime law has not been followed. More specifically rule number 2, good seamanship. “It is by far the most important rule in Maritime law, and in my opinion, it is broken. It is not prudent to run a yacht with so many onboard when the one on the bridge has no qualifications what so ever. This goes against rule two and is not good seamanship. If you had a better qualified crew, there would have been considerably less risk for this to have happened”, says Peter Ingham.

Isn't that just speculation?
“No, with a better educated crew you would have avoided that the navigator had to be awake for too long at the time. He was dead tired. Secondly you would have always had someone on watch who was not just there to race, but to navigate safely in areas and follow charts that are not updated”
Knut Frostad rejects this. “this is a claim taken from thin air, that the skipper only is qualified to sail fast and not to navigate. If he thinks that by circumnavigating the globe four times without knowing anything about navigation, he is wrong. I also have the formal Yachts Masters from Norway, Deck officer class 5, and I can tell you that what I learned has very little relevance to what you in fact do as a navigator in Volvo Ocean Race”
Wouter Verbraak would like to see more people versed in the art of navigation onboard. “There is no doubt that this is a demanding race. The navigator also have to sleep and we have to help on deck. Therefore the more that have navigational knowledge on board when I am asleep, the better”

*
Back in the Indian Ocean 29th November 2014. It is around four o´clock. Three hours until the grounding. Wouter Verbraak ends his watch and is very tired. He sets the course and tells Chris Nicholson that there are 40 meters at the shallowest at the Caragados Carjados Shoals. He uses the electronic charts, and only those - and goes to bed. It is this mistake that is, according to the Volvo report, the main cause of the grounding. In the middle of the stress of the problems with the electronics, a tropical depression, changes in the course, together with the fact that Verbraak is the only one on board with a yacht masters and navigational knowledge, he does not see that the reef is a series of small islands. Chris Nicholson follows his navigator blindly.

This is completely wrong says Peter Ingham.

FOrmula 1
He thinks it is a big mistake that the skipper solely thinks that “the navigator has said that we should go this way so then we do that” as Ingam says. According to him, it cant work like this. “He has only excelled at racing. It would be like taking a Forula 1 driver who is really good at racing, but hasn't got a drivers license, and put him in a bus on the motor way with eight passengers. You would never accept that”.

Around 10 minutes before the collision the crew notices that something is amiss. They investigate if the boat is headed towards something. They do not change their course.

Wouter Verbraak is woken by the the crash. Was it a whale? Did the mast break?
“There is a big rock” he hears from the deck. “It was the longest night of my life” says Chris Nicholson later. In just a couple of hundred metres the water depth changes from three kilometres to nothing at the Caragados Carjados Shoals. The waves are therefore large and lifts the 12.5 ton heavy boat up for then to almost slam it back down towards the rocks again. Parts of the boat is torn to shreds. Six hours later, around 3am. The boat is more unstable, and a couple of times is heals to 45 degrees. Chris Nicholson fears that the boat will turn over. He decides that he and the crew have to abandon ship and get to safety in one of the life rafts on the calmer side of the reef. It is risky, but they succeed. Three days later, the crew is evacuated to Mauritius.

*
Vestas has emphasised that the crew are equal to their corporate employees “The crew are hired by Vestas Wind Ocean Racing ApS, a daughter company of Vestas Wind Systems AS. As such all Team Vestas Wind members adhere to Vestas rules, code of conduct and values” says spokes person Morten Kamp Jørgensen from Vestas.
The Code of conduct “determines the standard in various areas that all Vestas employees shall follow” it says in its introduction. Within the code of conduct is a section on safety, and it says “Every Vestas employee is therefore obliged to … only take on work that he or she is trained for, is competent and able to carry out”
Peter Ingham and Philipp Skafte-Holm emphasise the words trained to and competent.

Breaks the Code of Conduct
With that in mind - they claim that the Australian does not fulfil the code of conduct. “The code of conduct is not made for a yacht race but for wind mills, and you would never dream of letting a person be responsible for the work at the top of a wind mill who had not been trained and at least as good as those he worked with. We get back to the same thing: You cannot have a skipper who is not at all capable of navigating” says Peter Ingham. Vestas’ reply is that the organisation has throughout this had full confidence in their skipper, Chris Nicholson.

In the days after the grounding, the crews from other boats support Vestas Wind, and their navigator in particular. Skipper Ian Walker from Abu Dhabi Ocean Racing sailed passed the Caragados Carajados Shoals in daylight. Before Vestas Wind. “We actually spoke about how easy it would have been to hit it at night. It is really hard to discover on the electronic charts and at night you would not see it at all” he says.

From the initial presentation of Team Vestas Wind in the late summer of 2014 and until now, it has been emphasised that they are a team.
However, only one man was fired after the grounding - the navigator.
“Wouter Verbraak has carried the responsibility for what happened on his shoulders. He has admitted he made a mistake, but there is a broader responsibility and that is with the skipper, Chris Nicholson” says Campbell Field.

During his talk in Denmark, Verbraak says that he was not fired by Vestas, but by Chris Nicholson. Vestas gave the Australian the decision of the future crew of the yacht, even though it was him who was responsible on deck when the boat grounded. “We did that as we have full confidence in Chris Nicholson and we wanted his decision on the composition of the team. The team was then approved by Morten Albæk who was CEO for our participation in the Volvo Ocean Race” says Morten Kamp Jørgensen, Vestas.

*

A ship from Maersk ships Vestas Wind from the reef to a wharf in Italy. The crew starts their training for the race’s last two legs at the end of May. Sunday 7th June sees the start gun for the penultimate leg from Lisbon, and the blue boat is with the fleet. The destination is Lorient, France and Vetas is surprisingly second. “Nico (Chris Nicholson, red) has been through a lot in this race. I can only imagine how relieved he must be” says the new navigator, Tom Addis

*

We end with the navigator who is no longer part of the team. “In sailing it is this way: if the skipper says you are fired, then you are fired. Chris Nicholson is not a man of many words. Therefore he said it bluntly: the boat is coming back in the race, but it will be without you. I respect that. I did not get any explanation. I could be angry and frustrated over it, but I want to focus on the future and I want to share what we learned so that an accident like this can be avoided for others” says Wouter Verbraak.

It has not been possible to get a comment from Chris Nicholson.

-END-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if that little island, known as United Kingdom, will show up on their charts?!

 

I think it will show up no matter at what zoom level they look at. So, we're good! (as long as they don't declare this island an "exclusion zone", then a couple of boats will probably hit it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that translation Peterdane. The emphasis on foreign/Cayman's flag and Nico's not having formal qualifications spoils an otherwise excellent article about responsibilities. They lost me with the employee code of conduct and comment Vestus did it to save money....WTF!!!

 

It is my view Nico should have stood behind Wouter and the team continued unchanged. Though maybe not obvious to Nico at the time he would be better off in the long run in terms of his own reputation if he had done that.

 

If Wouter was on board today there would be no oxygen for articles like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The further this goes the more damage to Chris Nicholsen's now tattered reputation. Never in history has the skipper, commander, captain or Admiral escaped ultimate responsibility for loss of his vessel. (Only out is that TVW was not lost). I suspect that the rest of the crew, and they cannot be called a team, will never get positions with another boat. Where was the team member support for Woutier. When he was sacked they should all have walked as a show of solidarity. No respect for any of those including CN who stayed aboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jack_Sparrow -

I think the part about the money was not about saving it (although as they pointed out, is part of the legislation - i.e. if you hire incompetent crew from a low cost country to save money) it was more about if you had monetary gain (salary?) could land you a longer sentence (2 years). But I agree, too much emphasis put on a no-go case, though I do agree with RGeek that this stems a lot from the Danish being a proud nation and feeling deceived that what they thought was a Danish boat run with Danish standards and moral fibre, and it transpires that it is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that translation Peterdane. The emphasis on foreign/Cayman's flag and Nico's not having formal qualifications spoils an otherwise excellent article about responsibilities. They lost me with the employee code of conduct and comment Vestus did it to save money....WTF!!!

 

It is my view Nico should have stood behind Wouter and the team continued unchanged. Though maybe not obvious to Nico at the time he would be better off in the long run in terms of his own reputation if he had done that.

 

If Wouter was on board today there would be no oxygen for articles like this.

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

preserved for fun later.

 

 

 

I suspect that the rest of the crew will never get positions with another boat..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

preserved for fun later.

 

 

 

I suspect that the rest of the crew will never get positions with another boat..

 

:D Old skool northern European moral values vs the closed world of pro sailing.

 

"Ha they got a job" ... "well they shouldn't" ... repeat ... for years

 

To much potential there for collateral damage to people just doing their job and who had no input into the decisions critical to what happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

preserved for fun later.

 

 

 

I suspect that the rest of the crew will never get positions with another boat..

 

:D Old skool northern European moral values vs the closed world of pro sailing.

 

"Ha they got a job" ... "well they shouldn't" ... repeat ... for years

 

To much potential there for collateral damage to people just doing their job and who had no input into the decisions critical to what happened.

 

 

for fuck's sake, someone died in the AC and not a single person associated with it - not the designer, the skipper, the helmsman, the team manager - was even disciplined, much less charged with anything. And they all still have jobs...even the designer. The only one not working is the guy who wasn't even on the boat, and who never belonged at the head of a modern team anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally (but contrast SA editorial on that with Vestas).

 

But the crew are the wrong target here. Expecting a walk away on moral grounds is unrealistic. A quiet 'no thanks' next time a campaign is put together? I guess depends on the opportunities available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Difference in editorial tone for TVW was the fact that a) no one died, B) there was an immediate mea culpa, c) there was almost constant comms and transparency, and d) a detailed investigation and report came quite quickly from people known for trustworthiness and credibility.

 

None of the crew even considered leaving because all agreed that the right guy got the blame; young Tom took off with Nico's blessing because he got a sweet offer from Oracle and Wouter got the boot.

 

Nico's crew are very loyal, and they like and trust him implicitly from what I have seen. You won't see any of them turn down a ride on the blue boat if it materialized for 2016.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

It is my view Nico should have stood behind Wouter and the team continued unchanged. Though maybe not obvious to Nico at the time he would be better off in the long run in terms of his own reputation if he had done that.

 

If Wouter was on board today there would be no oxygen for articles like this.

+1

 

+1

Hard to understand why a skipper who is awake can sail his boat onto a reef and claim he din't know it was there, when his navigator is asleep at the time. Isn't the guy in charge on deck supposed to make sure he knows where he is going and that the water ahead is safe and that means checking the nav. i.e. both at least equally at fault and the buck normally stops with the skipper. I have no problem with both the guys continuing, anyone can make a mistake, and what a way to learn a lesson, but for Nico to sack Wouter always did look crazy to me. But what do I know?

Why is Clean such a strong supporter of Nico? does he know something us mere mortals don't?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

It is my view Nico should have stood behind Wouter and the team continued unchanged. Though maybe not obvious to Nico at the time he would be better off in the long run in terms of his own reputation if he had done that.

 

If Wouter was on board today there would be no oxygen for articles like this.

+1

+1

Hard to understand why a skipper who is awake can sail his boat onto a reef and claim he din't know it was there, when his navigator is asleep at the time. Isn't the guy in charge on deck supposed to make sure he knows where he is going and that the water ahead is safe and that means checking the nav. i.e. both at least equally at fault and the buck normally stops with the skipper. I have no problem with both the guys continuing, anyone can make a mistake, and what a way to learn a lesson, but for Nico to sack Wouter always did look crazy to me. But what do I know?

Why is Clean such a strong supporter of Nico? does he know something us mere mortals don't?

Of course he does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

F'wardhands do bow work,

Mast guys bump halyards

Pit does halyard tensions

Grinders grind

Trimmers trim

Steerers steer

NAVIGATORS NAVIGATE!!

Skipper is like an orchestra conductor, he knows the tune, but doesn't tell people how to play their instruments, they should already know.

A navigator going off watch should tell the on watch crew what course to steer, wether there are any problems ahead in the time he is off, how much of a course deviation, speed increase can happen before he should be informed, etc.

If most navs are like me when I am doing it, you can look at the current screen, but DO NOT TOUCH any settings, buttons, or adjust or scroll, if you have a question, WAKE ME UP, that is what a nav is there for.

I wonder what instructions Wouter left the on watch with??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something I haven't seen talked about (and forgive me if it has or if I have this completely wrong) does the helm have access to a plotter screen that he can control at the helm or is he just steering a course indicated by a arrow on a small instrument panel that the navigator has programed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No plotter at the helm as it woudl simply be turned off at night so it didn't blind the helm, even in lowest settings. However, there is one just inside the companionway in a position that can be seen and used from the pit. The teams use it for AIS info and can install charts on it if they wish to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plotter access is covered in the report. Something along the lines of there was one but is was small and mostly just used for AIS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

does he know something us mere mortals don't?

 

metric shit tons

 

i support nico for reasons stated a thousand times (and echoed by HILLY)

 

i support Wouter because he stood up and accepted fault

 

both are assets to a team, and both are genuinely good people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

does he know something us mere mortals don't?

 

 

both are assets to a team, and both are genuinely good people.

 

sure, but one is no longer an asset to TVW. Fact.

 

Does accepting fault turn you into a liability?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The article would have carried a lot more credibility if the author had read the report into the accident, and had also read the syllabus of the Yacht Master Ocean certificate before putting finger to keyboard. Whilst on the face of it the article has a logical flow, it breaks down when looked at in detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

does he know something us mere mortals don't?

 

 

both are assets to a team, and both are genuinely good people.

 

Does accepting fault turn you into a liability?

 

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

does he know something us mere mortals don't?

 

 

both are assets to a team, and both are genuinely good people.

 

Does accepting fault turn you into a liability?

 

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

 

This time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that depends if it attracts liability for the rest of the team for a responsibility they otherwise want to avoid. So in this case no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

does he know something us mere mortals don't?

 

 

both are assets to a team, and both are genuinely good people.

 

Does accepting fault turn you into a liability?

 

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

 

This time?

 

Don't think it was the accepting of fault that turned him into a liability. it was missing a rock on the route. accepting fault is the kind of act that may have helped him get his next job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

both are assets to a team, and both are genuinely good people.

 

Does accepting fault turn you into a liability?

 

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

 

This time?

 

Don't think it was the accepting of fault that turned him into a liability. it was missing a rock on the route. accepting fault is the kind of act that may have helped him get his next job.

 

So he isn't an asset?

Painful sitting on a fence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

F'wardhands do bow work,

Mast guys bump halyards

Pit does halyard tensions

Grinders grind

Trimmers trim

Steerers steer

NAVIGATORS NAVIGATE!!

Skipper is like an orchestra conductor, he knows the tune, but doesn't tell people how to play their instruments, they should already know.

A navigator going off watch should tell the on watch crew what course to steer, wether there are any problems ahead in the time he is off, how much of a course deviation, speed increase can happen before he should be informed, etc.

If most navs are like me when I am doing it, you can look at the current screen, but DO NOT TOUCH any settings, buttons, or adjust or scroll, if you have a question, WAKE ME UP, that is what a nav is there for.

I wonder what instructions Wouter left the on watch with??

And teams work as a team. You don't allow your team mate to carry the can. A team should express solidarity, these guys have not done that nor has CN. Their judgement and their call but dont expect respect with that call. Everyone else is going to look at those blokes and think, shit if we screw up they will happily hang me out to dry. No thanks.They have drunk from the poison challice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So he isn't an asset?

 

 

 

he was to the guys who obliterated the Bermuda record last month, but he was at home. In a comfy chair, not on a fence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

F'wardhands do bow work,

Mast guys bump halyards

Pit does halyard tensions

Grinders grind

Trimmers trim

Steerers steer

NAVIGATORS NAVIGATE!!

.......

Yah dreamin.

 

Even around the cans multi-tasking required. For instance the best Pitman is someone who knows the Bow fu#kin well. These 65' canters are a handfull and running relatively shorthanded in heavy condions most of the time so even more multi-tasking required.

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

 

PS I do Nav but also drive and do point away from the sight of land. My frontierland hero..maybe after EW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The further this goes the more damage to Chris Nicholsen's now tattered reputation. Never in history has the skipper, commander, captain or Admiral escaped ultimate responsibility for loss of his vessel. (Only out is that TVW was not lost). I suspect that the rest of the crew, and they cannot be called a team, will never get positions with another boat. Where was the team member support for Woutier. When he was sacked they should all have walked as a show of solidarity. No respect for any of those including CN who stayed aboard.

Are you serious??? "rest of the crew .... will never get positions with another boat." - what do you base that on?

As to Chris - he is a great guy and do you imagine that he made the decision lightly. Tthere may have been other issues that led to the Navigator going

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Difference in editorial tone for TVW was the fact that a) no one died, B) there was an immediate mea culpa, c) there was almost constant comms and transparency, and d) a detailed investigation and report came quite quickly from people known for trustworthiness and credibility.

 

None of the crew even considered leaving because all agreed that the right guy got the blame; young Tom took off with Nico's blessing because he got a sweet offer from Oracle and Wouter got the boot.

 

Nico's crew are very loyal, and they like and trust him implicitly from what I have seen. You won't see any of them turn down a ride on the blue boat if it materialized for 2016.

I fear that the most important safety lesson here hasn't been learned: that the most important decisions cannot be delegated to one person. In the world of aeronautical engineering, peer review is one of the most important ways we avoid making mistakes. And similar practices are followed in the cockpits of commercial aviation.

 

It's telling that it was Ian Walker who showed how the reef didn't show up on the zoomed out map. And I'm pretty sure he said "we [meaning himself and Si Fi] checked it out and marked it as a no go area".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The further this goes the more damage to Chris Nicholsen's now tattered reputation. Never in history has the skipper, commander, captain or Admiral escaped ultimate responsibility for loss of his vessel. (Only out is that TVW was not lost). I suspect that the rest of the crew, and they cannot be called a team, will never get positions with another boat. Where was the team member support for Woutier. When he was sacked they should all have walked as a show of solidarity. No respect for any of those including CN who stayed aboard.

 

Are you serious??? "rest of the crew .... will never get positions with another boat." - what do you base that on?

As to Chris - he is a great guy and do you imagine that he made the decision lightly. Tthere may have been other issues that led to the Navigator going

I am sure that CN did not shaft Wouter to save his own skin lightly. Rest of crew turned yellow and didn't stand up for Wouter either. With that on your cv as a team player they will struggle to gain acceptance with another team. The old et tu Brutus will plague them dearly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frant, you obviously don't understand the real world.

Obviously! But you know how it is in this world. Get caught fucking a camel once and you are forever known as Abdul the camel fucker. Just sayin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I am sure that CN did not shaft Wouter to save his own skin lightly. Rest of crew turned yellow and didn't stand up for Wouter either.

 

 

I get a similar feeling. Wouter offered the honorable thing, and there wasn't enough backup (more likely the team management rather than the sailing team at fault here, I think) to save him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

 

 

 

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

 

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

That explains it all. As a one trick pony he deserved to be shafted then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

 

 

 

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

 

Neither was Nico (in the watch system)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something I haven't seen talked about (and forgive me if it has or if I have this completely wrong) does the helm have access to a plotter screen that he can control at the helm or is he just steering a course indicated by a arrow on a small instrument panel that the navigator has programed?

There is one plotter just inside the companion way and one in the nav station I believe. It was set to 10nm apparently. Reef visible. They just weren't looked at, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

 

 

 

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

Have never heard the guy admit to bring a crap driver and I thought he floated on and off wheel like Nico. If not I humbly retract that boo boo Cleanster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do go and read the report of you haven't yet. This thread is repeating ground long since covered.

Francis, not quite correct. This thread is about flack that TVW and C N are receiving more than six months after the incident. It is now about the long term/career effects of the grounding and subsequent treatment of the players has. What simply cannot be ignored is that the issue is alive as evidenced by the Danish newspaper article. They might have the facts all wrong but they are entitled to express their opinion. There are a few that will be known as Abdul from that fatefull day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

 

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

Have never heard the guy admit to bring a crap driver and I thought he floated on and off wheel like Nico. If not I humbly retract that boo boo Cleanster

Clean is full of shit. Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system because he was the navigator. As FV says read the report.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

Have never heard the guy admit to bring a crap driver and I thought he floated on and off wheel like Nico. If not I humbly retract that boo boo Cleanster

Clean is full of shit. Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system because he was the navigator. As FV says read the report.

 

Watch my interview with Nico or ask Wouter yourself on social media. He does not consider himself a great sailor, which is why unlike the navs on most of the other boats, he doesn't stand a watch. You should learn to do a little research before proving yourself a fucking idiot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

 

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

Have never heard the guy admit to bring a crap driver and I thought he floated on and off wheel like Nico. If not I humbly retract that boo boo Cleanster

Clean is full of shit. Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system because he was the navigator. As FV says read the report.

Watch my interview with Nico or ask Wouter yourself on social media. He does not consider himself a great sailor, which is why unlike the navs on most of the other boats, he doesn't stand a watch. You should learn to do a little research before proving yourself a fucking idiot.
You're still full of shit. He was the only competent navigator on board. Nico clearly was incompetent to share that job. When the fuck was Wouter expected to drive. Use your fucking brain before shooting off at others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

Have never heard the guy admit to bring a crap driver and I thought he floated on and off wheel like Nico. If not I humbly retract that boo boo Cleanster

Clean is full of shit. Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system because he was the navigator. As FV says read the report.

 

Watch my interview with Nico or ask Wouter yourself on social media. He does not consider himself a great sailor, which is why unlike the navs on most of the other boats, he doesn't stand a watch. You should learn to do a little research before proving yourself a fucking idiot.

 

I am not sure Wouter would say that he is not a good sailor? Really? he has sailed double handed around the world? I dont think he only did nav then?I dont think he only did Nav on Vestas? He may say that he wasnt the best driver on Vestas though... As I said up thread, Nico was not in the watch system either...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do go and read the report of you haven't yet. This thread is repeating ground long since covered.

I have read the report and it brushes over the fact that the reef was fully visible for 10nm on the plotter. It simply states that "the plotter was mostly used for tracking the AIS of the other boats"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

 

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

Have never heard the guy admit to bring a crap driver and I thought he floated on and off wheel like Nico. If not I humbly retract that boo boo Cleanster
Clean is full of shit. Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system because he was the navigator. As FV says read the report.

Read it a couple of times...I'm happy to sit for an exam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system at all, because he is not one of the better drivers, by his own admission. Shut up before you hurt yourself.

Have never heard the guy admit to bring a crap driver and I thought he floated on and off wheel like Nico. If not I humbly retract that boo boo Cleanster
Clean is full of shit. Wouter was not in the sailing lineup/watch system because he was the navigator. As FV says read the report.

Read it a couple of times...I'm happy to sit for an exam

 

My comment was directed at Clean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

F'wardhands do bow work,

Mast guys bump halyards

Pit does halyard tensions

Grinders grind

Trimmers trim

Steerers steer

NAVIGATORS NAVIGATE!!

.......

Yah dreamin.

 

Even around the cans multi-tasking required. For instance the best Pitman is someone who knows the Bow fu#kin well. These 65' canters are a handfull and running relatively shorthanded in heavy condions most of the time so even more multi-tasking required.

 

In Wouter's case he was also one of better drivers on Vestus. Most other VOR boats have a standby Nav, often the Skipper. Interestingly Vestus was an exception.

 

PS I do Nav but also drive and do point away from the sight of land. My frontierland hero..maybe after EW

 

Really, welcome to the rarified world of 95% of yacht owners, a lot of us do WAY more multi tasking than that.

 

As for wether the crew will ever get another job, I would hire someone who stuck out the terms of their contract, rather than someone who got butt-hurt and walked off cause someone else fucked up and got fired. These guys are professional sportsmen, people get "fired" all the time for not being up to scratch. I am guessing that a lot of these pro's are journeymen, taking whatever work comes up, and a long contract like a Volvo gig would be gold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So he isn't an asset?

 

 

 

he was to the guys who obliterated the Bermuda record last month, but he was at home. In a comfy chair, not on a fence.

 

Quite an accusation. Going to back that up with anything or just throwing it out there?

 

Poor selection and team management/divying up of responsabilities if true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am confused by 'accusation'.

 

Wouter was the shore-based weather router for the Lending Club maxi trimaran's recent record run, and will likely be doing pre-race routing for their Transpac, as well, just as he has done for dozens of teams for the past few years. That's common knowledge to everyone who pays attention to record breakers.

 

I'm not sure what you are accusing him of, or me of, or anyone of. Strange syntax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

a lot of these pro's are journeymen, taking whatever work comes up, and a long contract like a Volvo gig would be gold.

 

 

Anyone who thinks the younger crews make anything but shit money is deluded. They are happy for the work for which they compete intensively, and more importantly, they are happy to add the VOR to their resume. It makes them instantly employable on every 8 knot shitbox doing the Fastnet or BDA or TP or Middle Sea or Hobart race, not to mention the next VOR. And the AC pulls from the VOR too, especially the young guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not an asset on the volvo

Asset when sat in his chair at home.

 

If that's not what you said then cool. My misunderstanding

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was clearly not an asset on this Volvo, unless you owned the crane boat that picked up the TVW or were one of the dozens of carbonologists flown into Italy to work for double overtime for the past few months. On the other hand, he was clearly an asset to the LC trimaran as a shore-based router. That is, after all, the work he picked up his nickname for years ago. "Wouter the Router"

 

I don't see how anyone can dispute these statements. If you can, please explain.

 

 

Not an asset on the volvo
Asset when sat in his chair at home.

If that's not what you said then cool. My misunderstanding

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Wouters rather good nav in leg 0 and the first leg was not an asset to the team?

I also seem to remember that he was a nav before a router, and has only ever routed as a side really...

 

I thinks we are back to the essence of the article above and what does not sit well with a lot of people (at least in Denmark): who actually put that boat on the reef? The guy asleep or the guys on watch who could have looked at the plotter or the nav software sometimes when the Nav was asleep, but who washed their hands off it simply by claiming ignorance (i.e. not being qualified)...

 

Not saying that Wouter didnt F up (as well), but to say he is not a good sailor and only good for routing is taking it well far? (if that is what you are saying)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was clearly not an asset on this Volvo, unless you owned the crane boat that picked up the TVW or were one of the dozens of carbonologists flown into Italy to work for double overtime for the past few months. On the other hand, he was clearly an asset to the LC trimaran as a shore-based router. That is, after all, the work he picked up his nickname for years ago. "Wouter the Router"

 

I don't see how anyone can dispute these statements. If you can, please explain.

 

 

 

Not an asset on the volvo

Asset when sat in his chair at home.

If that's not what you said then cool. My misunderstanding

 

Clean you are a wanker. Did your mrs roll over when you had a toss and find herself pregnant? You blow with the wind!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

He was clearly not an asset on this Volvo, unless you owned the crane boat that picked up the TVW or were one of the dozens of carbonologists flown into Italy to work for double overtime for the past few months. On the other hand, he was clearly an asset to the LC trimaran as a shore-based router. That is, after all, the work he picked up his nickname for years ago. "Wouter the Router"

 

I don't see how anyone can dispute these statements. If you can, please explain.

 

 

Not an asset on the volvo

Asset when sat in his chair at home.

 

If that's not what you said then cool. My misunderstanding

 

No dispute. But then again they aren't the statements I was surprised by.

 

I was surprised by the association you appeared to me to draw between being an asset to a team and whether Wouter is working from home (or not).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Wouters rather good nav in leg 0 and the first leg was not an asset to the team?

I also seem to remember that he was a nav before a router, and has only ever routed as a side really...

 

I thinks we are back to the essence of the article above and what does not sit well with a lot of people (at least in Denmark): who actually put that boat on the reef? The guy asleep or the guys on watch who could have looked at the plotter or the nav software sometimes when the Nav was asleep, but who washed their hands off it simply by claiming ignorance (i.e. not being qualified)...

 

Not saying that Wouter didnt F up (as well), but to say he is not a good sailor and only good for routing is taking it well far? (if that is what you are saying)

If he didn't fit with set-up Nico wanted and used before it makes you wonder what he was doing on the boat in the first place and why he didn't get eased in Cape Town. May be this goes back to before the start. Can't remember now but wasn't Wouter a late assignment as nav?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Wouters rather good nav in leg 0 and the first leg was not an asset to the team?

I also seem to remember that he was a nav before a router, and has only ever routed as a side really...

 

When I met him 4 years ago at the Barcelona World Race his nickname was already Wouter the Router for a long time. Make of that what you will.

 

Whether Wouter was an asset to the team in leg 1 is not the question; whether he was an asset for the volvo ocean race, which is 9 legs, is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites