Contumacious Tom

Drug Prohibition: Still Stupid

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NCAA: Still Stupid
 

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C.J. Harris helped his Georgia high school football team reach the state championship game last year and had been offered a spot on the roster at Auburn University as a walk-on—that is, a non-scholarship player—to play defensive back for the Tigers, one of the top college football programs in the country.

But Harris suffers periodically from epileptic seizures and uses cannabidiol (CBD) oil, derived from marijuana, to manage his symptoms. That makes him ineligible to play college football, the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) ruled last week in a decision that has been widely panned.

 

But if he used legal anti-seizure meds that are less effective and more dangerous, that would be OK.

 

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From the long list of tragic, unintended consequences of our drug war:

An Overdose Is Not A Murder

The intent to kill is almost always absent. Also absent: anyone who could help.

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"The most common reason people cite for not calling 911 in the event of an overdose is fear of police involvement," DPA's LaSalle notes. "The only behavior that is deterred by drug-induced homicide prosecutions is the seeking of life-saving medical assistance."

 

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How many more times do I have to see a sad story like this one?
 

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Georgia recognizes cannabis as a treatment for epilepsy and notionally lets certified patients possess up to 20 fluid ounces of "low THC oil," an extract that contains a negligible amount of marijuana's main psychoactive component but a substantial amount of cannabidiol (CBD), the ingredient that reduces seizures. That privilege is mainly theoretical, however, since there is no legal way to produce or obtain cannabis extract in Georgia. Given that glaring defect in the state's medical marijuana law, it is easy to understand why Matthew and Suzeanna Brill let their 15-year-old son, David, smoke cannabis in a desperate attempt to control his epileptic seizures. It is harder to understand why that decision led the state of Georgia to forcibly separate David from his parents.

David was having several seizures a day, the Brills say, and the drugs he was prescribed for his epilepsy did not work. But after he started smoking marijuana in February, he went more than two months without a seizure. "For 71 days he was able to ride a bike, go play, lift weights," Matthew Brill told The New York Times. David's doctors knew why he was suddenly doing so much better, and they did not object. But his therapist ratted out the Brills, which led to a visit by Twiggs County sheriff's deputies, who demanded that David stop taking his medicine. "We complied, and within 14 hours of complying we were rushing our son to the hospital," Suzeanna Brill told the Times. "It was one of the most horrific seizures I've ever seen."

 

That's protecting and serving all right.

 

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STATES Act
 

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Earlier today, Republican Senator Cory Gardner and Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren introduced the STATES Act, a bill that would largely eliminate the federal law banning marijuana in states where it is legal under state law. The new bill states that federal law banning marijuana "shall not apply to any person acting in compliance with State law relating to the manufacture, production, possession, distribution, dispensation, administration, or delivery of marihuana." In other words, if your posession, distribution, or sale of marijuana is legal under state law, it will - if this bill passes - be legal under federal law, as well.

For reasons I outlined in a previous post on Senator Gardner's efforts on this issue, the passage of the STATES Act would be an important victory for both marijuana legalization and federalism. Nine states and the District of Columbia have already legalized recreational marijuana, and twenty-nine states and DC have legalized medical marijuana. Both figures are highly likely to increase. In all of those jurisdictions, the STATES Act would largely eliminate the federal ban on marijuana possession and distribution. Gardner and Warren deserve credit for reaching across partisan lines to make progress here.

In two respects, I wish the bill would go further. It would be better if it simply eliminated the federal ban on marijuana entirely.

 

I agree that it would be better if the federal ban were ended entirely but that's unlikely as it would gore an important cash cow.

It's not even certain that this halfway measure can pass, but a half step is better than no step so I hope it does.

 

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Probable hat tip to Trump
 

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The bill in question, known as the Strengthening the Tenth Amendment Through Entrusting States or (STATES) act, was introduced yesterday by Sens. Corey Gardner (R-Colo.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), both of whom represent states that have legalized recreational marijuana.

Their legislation would amend the Controlled Substances Act to make it inapplicable in those states, federal territories, and tribal lands that have passed some form of marijuana legalization. It would also open the financial sector to state-legal cannabusinesses, many of whom are unable to access credit, buy insurance, or even deposit cash in banks.

Asked if he supported the bill, Trump said: "I really do. I support Sen. Gardner. I know exactly what he's doing. We're looking at it, but we'll probably end up supporting that, yes."

 

(Depending on what the meaning of "probably" is.)

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From the Immigrant Children thread:

19 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
19 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Because it's a dysfunctional country in a lot of ways, and a lot of the responsibility for that level of dysfunction falls squarely on the USA for the combination of hypocrisy and self-righteousness about the war on drugs. It's YOUR insatiable demand for illegal drugs that drives THEIR gangs to feed that demand.

FKT

That has exactly what to do w/the Mexican (and other southern America) government's inability to establish a viable local economy, and provide basic security?   Blame the US is a popular meme that might get a lot of heads nodding in your direction, but, it's not a viable policy approach. 


A great deal.

Our economy is so huge that our drug economy is relatively large compared to their whole economy. It represents one of the better ways to make money and gain power in Mexico because it's such a big market.

That affects security because all that money needs protection. Cartels provide their own but also bribe their government for it.

Basically, the black market we maintain by maintaining our stupid drug war is a huge thumb on the scales and is going to continue to result in violence and corruption. Ending our stupid drug war is a viable policy approach that would help us and them.

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Venerable Drug War Dinosaurs Feinstein and Grassley work to make the drug war even more stupid.

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The House of Representatives voted on Friday to create a new schedule of banned drugs under the Controlled Substances Act, called "Schedule A," and to give Attorney General Jeff Sessions broad new powers to criminalize the manufacturing, importation, and sale of substances that are currently unregulated, but not illegal. The bill is now headed to the Senate, where co-sponsors Dianne Feinstein (D–Calif.) and Chuck Grassley (R–Iowa) will likely have little problem whipping votes.

Because a Reefer Madness fan who thinks cannabis and heroin are pretty much the same thing should have unreviewable power to make that kind of determination.
 

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For more than a decade now, legislators, regulators, and law enforcement have been overwhelmed by the endless stream of analog drugs exported to the U.S. by overseas chemical manufacturers. These compounds are very similar to drugs that Congress has already banned or the prescription drugs the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) already regulates: Synthetic cannabinoids are designed to work like marijuana; cathinones are supposed to mimic both illicit and prescription amphetamines; 2cb imbues euphoric effects similar to MDMA; and SARMs work kind of like testosterone.

The Drug Enforcement Administration has long bemoaned the fact that clandestine chemists can create these novel drugs faster than D.C. can ban them. The scheduling process is complicated, as it should be when the government makes things illegal: The DEA has to identify an analog's chemical structure and the scheduled or regulated drug to which it's most similar, then seek input from experts at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), then publish a scheduling notice in the Federal Register and review public comments. (Democracy can be such a drag!)

Prosecuting drugs that have not gone through this process of analysis and scheduling, meanwhile, requires overcoming what Sessions recently called "cumbersome evidentiary hurdles," such as chemistry experts who challenge the government's claims and defendants who say they believed they were importing and selling "potpourri" and "bath salts." (These hurdles are also known as "due process.")

 

That "due process" thing annoys the shit out of prohibitionists of all stripes, which is why I love it so.

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3 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

From the Immigrant Children thread:


A great deal.

Our economy is so huge that our drug economy is relatively large compared to their whole economy. It represents one of the better ways to make money and gain power in Mexico because it's such a big market.

That affects security because all that money needs protection. Cartels provide their own but also bribe their government for it.

Basically, the black market we maintain by maintaining our stupid drug war is a huge thumb on the scales and is going to continue to result in violence and corruption. Ending our stupid drug war is a viable policy approach that would help us and them.

i understand and agree with that, Tom - but, the problems in the countries south of our border aren't going to go away if we legalize marijuana and coke.  

 

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On 6/22/2018 at 9:21 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

i understand and agree with that, Tom - but, the problems in the countries south of our border aren't going to go away if we legalize marijuana and coke.  

 

Some of the problems absolutely would go away. Those caused by the black market would go away for us and for them.

Regulated markets have their own problems, and life is full of other problems even if we quit creating them with our stupid drug war. Neither of those is an argument for continuing to create problems by maintaining the black market in drugs. It might be if the problems of regulated drug markets were worse than black markets, but they're not.

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20 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Some of the problems absolutely would go away. Those caused by the black market would go away for us and for them.

Regulated markets have their own problems, and life is full of other problems even if we quit creating them with our stupid drug war. Neither of those is an argument for continuing to create problems by maintaining the black market in drugs. It might be if the problems of regulated drug markets were worse than black markets, but they're not.

Given the number of people addicted to and dying from legal and semi-legal opioids in the USA right now, I can't see that legalising the rest of the drugs is going to make a lot of difference to the death rate anyway and it will put a big dent in the black market money.

I'm just profoundly grateful that all my children are now adults and none of them got involved with any sort of drug scene on the way through.

FWIW - likely nothing - I don't understand the OD thing with painkillers. One period of my life after a pretty severe injury I was hooked up to a morphine infusion machine. Pain gets bad, hit the button, pain dims out, repeat as needed. The machine had an OD feature so you couldn't keep hitting the button but otherwise you were self-medicating. As the pain eased so did my usage.

Probably one difference is, the pain *did* ease and I don't really have an addictive personality. But surely there's a way to let people self-medicate without killing themselves in the process. I don't care if they get high along the way either, as long as they don't operate moving machinery and thereby endanger others.

FKT

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3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Given the number of people addicted to and dying from legal and semi-legal opioids in the USA right now, I can't see that legalising the rest of the drugs is going to make a lot of difference to the death rate anyway and it will put a big dent in the black market money.

It could be a coincidence that Portugal's problems with those opiods (and all other drugs) declined dramatically when they changed from a drug war to a drug help approach. But I don't think so. I think our high death rate is a product of, not prevented by, our drug laws.

The rodent studies on addiction are interesting. When I was a kid, they told me a rat would just dose itself with cocaine until it died. True, if that's all he has to do and he's all alone. Put an addicted rat into a colony with stuff to do and other rats and he WON'T continue the usage most of the time.

I don't think we're that different. A very few of us have an "addictive personality." The rest have nothing better to do. Or, lack the imagination and drive to come up with something better. But the vast majority of rodents and humans will do what you did, and I did, and my wife did, and everyone else I know who has been on pain meds did: decrease usage as needed to get back to our lives.

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38 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

But the vast majority of rodents and humans will do what you did, and I did, and my wife did, and everyone else I know who has been on pain meds did: decrease usage as needed to get back to our lives.

The rock-hard turds would be enough to get me off of drugs even if nothing else did.....

FKT

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Peyote is a sacrament and is protected under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act

Cannabis is not.
 

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The First Church of Cannabis can't legally use marijuana as a religious sacrament, according to a ruling last week from Indiana judge Sheryl Lynch.

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Bill Levin, a Reform Jew who founded the First Church of Cannabis, expressed plans to appeal the ruling to a higher court.

 

Sometimes God makes a mistake in creating a plant.

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Oklahoma just legalized medical MMJ, but the Medical Board imposed restrictions that said not in the smokable form, against advice of their own council. And the will of the people, it seems.  And, like alcohol sold in convenience stores that has limited alcohol content, it must be limited in THC content. A pharmisist must also be involved, though they can face charges from the Fed Gov for dispensing it. 

A newly emboldened smoking populace has now gathered 3/4 of the signatures necessary to legalize recreational use of the Evil Weed. This in the buckle of the Bible Belt. 

Its a brave new world.

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3/4 of the signatures necessary to put it on the ballot, that is. 

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1 hour ago, chum said:

A pharmisist must also be involved, though they can face charges from the Fed Gov for dispensing it. 

Not to mention civil forfeiture of things used in the crime, trouble explaining the criminal proceeds to the IRS as income, and the understandable refusal (for those same reasons) of the banking industry to work with illegal drug dealers.

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A prominent member of the board was also deeply concerned about the effects of second hand smoke on the populace. He forgot to mention the numbers of those killed by it, like those by tobacco.

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Treating addicts is "accomodating" them
 

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When I see a liberal newspaper columnist like the Chicago Tribune's Dahleen Glanton parroting the arguments of Maine Gov. Paul LePage—who made national headlines in 2016 by vetoing over-the-counter access to naloxone, on the grounds that making the overdose reversal drug widely available would simply enable opioid users to get high again—I wonder how we can move the conversation about drug addiction out of the late 1980s and into what should be a more compassionate present.

One way to do that might be to put opioid addiction in the context of some other conditions that lie at the intersection of psychology and physiology. Consider Type 2 Diabetes. There's evidence that people are genetically predisposed to developing insulin resistance, but we also know it's possible to reverse symptoms with behavioral modifications. Should we stop "accommodating" type 2 diabetics by providing them with access to insulin and metformin? Probably not: Behavior modification "works" in less than two percent of the type-2 diabetic population (and not at all for type-1 diabetics, who require insulin medication to stay alive regardless of what they eat or how much they exercise).

What about hypertension? It's also reversible with dietary changes and exercise! But just as with diabetes patients (and metabolic diseases in general), long-term compliance with lifestyle changes is poor. Increasing cardiovascular exercise can lower cholesterol. Are we excessively accomodating people by giving them statins?

If you have any of those diseases and are offended by the suggestion that your sickness is your fault, or by the idea that providing you with medications allows you to continue living in such a way that makes medication necessary, imagine how you'd feel if I or someone else—your governor, say, or a prominent columnist at your city's most widely read newspaper—suggested that your medicines are a crutch and making them available to you sets a bad example for people who don't already have your condition.

 

But prohibition and punishment are the American way! Also: .22!

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Hemp and Hops: A Good Mix
 

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In a lot of ways, hemp and hops seem like they're just meant to go together. After all, they share common ancestors, common flavor profiles, and common recreational uses, says Tom Hembree, the co-founder of the Dad and Dudes Breweria in Aurora, Colorado.

At the end of 2012, the state voted to legalize recreational marijuana. Since shortly after, Dad And Dudes has been out front in the effort to develop and market a beer made with cannabis. The next batch of brew infused with cannabidiol (CBD) oil, a non-psychoactive compound extracted from cannabis, is almost ready to be put in cans. For Hembree, hemp and other cannabis byproducts like CBD are "just another hop essence."

If only it were that simple.

...

But brewers are generally not interested in making beers that will also get you high. That's partially because mixing alcohol and THC is difficult to do in a predictable way, and partially because there's currently not much of a market for crossfading. But it's mostly because there would be no way to get those products to consumers. There aren't any dispensaries with liquor licenses, nor are liquor stores and bars authorized to sell pot—and it's not clear if there ever will be.

So when brewers reach for cannabis, they are looking for something else: terpenes.


 

An interesting biology lesson follows.

Bottom line: they would be a good mix if not for stupid prohibition laws.

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17 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

.. our drug war is very stupid but drug regulations are not. We had "snake oil" salesmen who were really selling morphine and we had a growing problem right up until they had to say what was in it, then the problem largely went away. It was our only successful regulatory reduction in addiction, though drug warriors are hoping for another any time soon.

 

12 hours ago, jzk said:

I would like to hear your plan for drug regulations without enforcement.  Maybe in the drug thread?

The regulation that worked to reduce addiction (the Pure Food and Drug Act) did require enforcement. I can't think of one that would not. Sorry, I have no such plan.

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19 hours ago, Mike in Seattle said:

and now, , news bit hit piece funded by drug agencies and the feds says Oregon RAMPANT overproduction is feeding black market ,,

https://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2018/08/new_report_finds_rampant_pot_o.html#incart_river_index

Fixerated.
 

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A comprehensive marijuana analysis has been a touchy political subject in Oregon. A draft report by Oregon State Police obtained last year by The Oregonian/OregonLive came under sharp criticism from the agency's brass and Gov. Kate Brown. The governor's staff characterized the draft as flawed, inaccurate and incomplete.

State officials dropped efforts to revise or finalize the document; it was revived by the anti-trafficking organization, a federally funded outfit that helps manage law enforcement resources in high-intensity drug trafficking areas throughout the state. The report issued this week was written by the same analyst behind last year's state police report.


 

Uh huh. I translate that as, "Cops whose budget depends on prohibition don't like cutting it and distort the effects. Get stuffed by the Governor. Get revived by the feds."

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It concluded that the glut of cannabis in Oregon isn't only fueling the illegal trade, but also driving down prices. Since 2016, the market has seen a 50 percent price drop -- a trend that has hit Jackson, Josephine and Lane counties particularly hard.

The black market established a price. As predicted, the legal market is more efficient and less risky, so the price has fallen. So it no longer compensates for the risk of the black market, as it did in the past. That's what is supposed to happen. If legal producers had a business plan that depended on that old, black market price, they're going to go out of business just like the black market.

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Between July 2017 and March 2018, law enforcement seized nearly $1.7 million in proceeds coming into Portland International Airport from the illegal cannabis trade after alleging, but not proving, it was from the illegal cannabis trade.

Fixerated again. And that link leads to the motivation behind the police report that the feds want re-spun. The police don't want drug enforcement budgets cut and they don't want to stop looting property from people who have not been charged with a crime and then keeping that property for their agency.

 

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Connecting "dots" from those stories gave Rat smell for me too.

" Since 2016, the market has seen a 20% price drop"   for the farmers

Advertised retail prices haven't, 

 

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20 hours ago, Mike in Seattle said:

Connecting "dots" from those stories gave Rat smell for me too.

" Since 2016, the market has seen a 20% price drop"   for the farmers

Advertised retail prices haven't, 

 

The Oregon market is still wildly distorted by prohibition elsewhere and by their own regulations and taxes. If it ever gets to be like every other kind of farming, it will be like every other kind of farming: dirty, difficult, risky, and with financial returns that don't justify that risk. I think that's particularly true of cannabis because it's so easy to grow. People will grow it just because they love to do it and if they sell some, great. If not, also great. Like I do with lychees.

If you're a commercial farm growing lychees, how do you compete with a guy like me who gives zero fucks about whether it ever makes any money?

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I should have mentioned in the squeezed/retail ,  the State gets their cut off the top

retail, distribution & the farmer get the leftovers.

 

:)  I could pay you only slightly more than zero fucks and smuggle them into a state where lychees are illegal.

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Cracking down on prescription opioids and heroin has led to increasing fentanyl deaths.

So Congress wants to crack down on prescription opioids and heroin some more. Because that's working so well. Just ignore the declining problem in Portugal.

Remember the saying 'We had to destroy that village to save it'? Guess what - you're now living in that village.....

FKT

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Overdose Numbers Spike Past 85 In New Haven As Three Men Are Arraigned On Charges Related To The ODs; Police Say Suspect Handed Out K2

ban high capacity.... Can we get a gun grabbers in here to tell us what to ban?

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2 hours ago, RKoch said:

Our State AG is by and large a worthless pos, but every once in a while she gets something right. Early on in office she undertook to shut down the 'pill mills',  which were bogus 'pain centers', often in strip mall store fronts,  that existed merely to give anyone who walked in the door a script for Oxys, etc.  There would be long lines out front before the office opened in the AM, usually there was little or no medical examination. It was just drug-dealing with the thinnest veneer of legality. The AG was mostly successful in shutting them down, and I have to give her credit for that even though I don't much like her.

Looking at post 533, I'd say give credit for sending them to die on fentanyl instead of sending them for treatment. Well, I'd use the word "blame" instead of "credit" because I think prohibition is a stupid, dangerous failure.

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Candidate $peak$ for medical cannabis industry, Wells Fargo terminates bank account
 

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Nikki Fried, a former medical marijuana lobbyist, is running for commissioner of agriculture and consumer services. The Democrat has made marijuana a top priority in her campaign, promising on her website to be a "fierce advocate for patient access to medical marijuana." Because of her devotion to cannabis, Fried received several donations from people in the medical marijuana industry.

About a month after filing to run and opening a campaign account with Wells Fargo in June, Fried received an email from the company informing her that her account was being closed. "As part of the onboarding of the client," the message noted, "it was uncovered some information regarding the customers [sic] political platform and that they are advocating for expanding patient access to medical marijuana." In a follow-up letter, Wells Fargo cited "banking risks" to formally terminate its relationship with Fried.

 

Having customers' accounts seized for violating federal law is indeed a banking risk and her donors are engaged in an ongoing conspiracy to violate federal law. One I support, but I can't blame Wells Fargo for looking at the law, the risks involved, and telling her to take a hike.

It might cause me to vote for her.

I've never heard of her but liked some of what I saw on her issues page.

It's not particularly impressive to me when a lawyer writes a sentence like this one:

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Me and my staff will implement proper protections to shield consumers from scams and pursue fraud to the fullest extent of the law.

Me will implement protections?

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What To Do About Potheads?
 

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...

Whether drug users want the government to intervene in their lives, and if so, how, are questions policy makers rarely ask. When we're surveyed at all, we're asked about our behaviors, not our preferences. This is also true of indigent people and people diagnosed with mental illnesses. If you reside in the place where all three of those circles overlap, it is very likely that no health professional or lawmaker has ever asked what you want, only what you did, or are doing, and what you would be willing to sacrifice in order to keep or regain your freedom.

That's better than being treated as a villain, but not by much.

Lowrey thinks more policy makers should hear from people like me. So what do I think they should do, regarding cannabis, for people like me? To me? About me? Please, for the love of God, do nothing.

Perhaps my answer would be different if marijuana were the only thing that I tended to use in excess. But it's not, nor is it for the other people I know who have a problem with pot. To a one, all of us struggle with either anxiety or depression and with other addictions. I used to binge eat and to drink way too much. Other pot smokers I know have struggled with both of those problems. States and the federal government should not make policy around my pot use, any more than they should make policy around my ice cream consumption. It should not be overly difficult for tens of millions of adults to buy marijuana legally because hundreds of thousands of us can't handle our shit.

...

We may be worse off if we choose cannabis, but I doubt we will be worse off than the millions of people who have been variously arrested, charged, and incarcerated in the name of keeping the rest of us safe from ourselves.

 

If a question begins with the words "what to do about..." it really doesn't matter what follows. No matter what it is, the last answer statists want to hear is, "Nothing."

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Prohibition Synergy

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A pregnant woman who shot and killed an intruder who attacked her in her Arkansas home is facing felony gun possession charges -- even though authorities ruled that the shooting was justified -- due to a prior marijuana conviction.

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When Stancoff came back and knocked on the door a short time later, Noble opened the door, and he shoved her back inside, according to the report.

Once inside, the man tackled her and began trying to cover her mouth with his hand, which she thought smelled of chemicals, the report states. He then started hitting her in the face with his fist.

After she was able to break free, Noble grabbed a pistol off the coffee table and shot the man three times before running to her neighbor's apartment and telling her to call 911, according to the report....

Drug warriors would say she should have just laid back and thought of England.

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The floggings will continue until morale improves
 

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"Supervised consumption sites" are spaces where people can obtain sterile syringes and inject drugs in the presence of medical personnel who can save them if they overdose. They can also get referrals for treatment.

Several cities, including Philadelphia, New York, and San Francisco, have moved toward opening such facilities. But the Justice Department is threatening to marshal its powers against them.

...

If you don't know what you're putting into your arm, the chance of an overdose is especially high. These facilities can test drugs for fentanyl, a synthetic opioid that is far more powerful than heroin. Having a nurse on hand to monitor your condition can be the difference between dying from the bad drugs and surviving.

To Rosenstein, this option amounts to "facilitating illicit drug use" and signaling that "the government thinks illegal drugs can be used safely." His alternative is to keep illegal drug use as dangerous as possible, in the earnest hope of deterring people from getting high.

But punitive policies have been tried, with disastrous consequences. The number of drug offenders behind bars is 12 times higher today than in 1980, but illegal drug use has risen steadily over the past two decades. The number of fatalities from drug overdoses has doubled since 2008 and quadrupled since 2000.

 

We've got a fentanyl problem because of the crackdown on "pill mills."

 

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12 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The floggings will continue until morale improves
 

We've got a fentanyl problem because of the crackdown on "pill mills."

 

<sarcasm>

The problem with illegal drugs is that they're not lethal enough. If you could get the lethality up to something like a 95% likelihood of dying, the drug addict problem would self-cure in quick time.

Now a win-win would be a lower level of lethality that didn't damage any important organs in the process. Then supervised injecting rooms would be a truly excellent thing. Get high, OD & die, it's straight off to the organ banks for you.....

</sarcasm>

FKT

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9 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The problem with illegal drugs is that they're not lethal enough.

That's not the intent but that's the result of prohibition. Fentanyl is the current example. If you're a smuggler, concentrated is good. More $ per trunkload.

And in the legal arena, we have low alcohol beer, decaf coffee, low tar cigarettes, etc. Because in a legal market, consumer demand for safer products can trump what's easiest to smuggle.

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On 8/17/2018 at 1:36 PM, Uncooperative Tom said:

I think prohibition is a stupid, dangerous failure.

This is quite a sweeping generalization. RPG's are prohibited, which sets up a healthy situation.

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27 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

This is quite a sweeping generalization. RPG's are prohibited, which sets up a healthy situation.

Yet in Europe  they treat the people not the drug, and it works much better. Do you want me to list all the sites? or do you know how to use google? Maybe you can expand your own mind by looking it up for your self.

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Update to Oklahoma’s new medical marijuana law. The Counsel for the Medical Board is under investigation for sending herself threatening  emails. The Board itself is accused of meeting in secret before the public meeting to decide on the matter, a clear violation of the law. The Attorney General has said the Boards revisions to the initiative were not legal and clearly contrary to the will of the people, they will not be implemented.

Oklahoma City is experiencing a commercial realestate boom as all the old industrial space is being snapped up for commercial grow operations.

The Southern Baptists are beside themselves.

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21 minutes ago, chum said:

The Counsel for the Medical Board is under investigation for sending herself threatening  emails.

That's good comedy!

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/read-the-threatening-emails-investigators-allege-health-department-attorney-sent/article_6e4ecb66-1fad-5075-9713-f46a16480da5.html

Especially this one:

Quote

Email: "you appear distinguished in glasses. Wear them for the camera."

 

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Wow, she just sortof imploded over the whole issue. I feel bad for her actually, obviously some deeper issues going on.

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Sessions Ignores 15th Letter From Congress

Asking him to explain why no cannabis research can be approved when other (more dangerous) drugs are approved for research routinely.
 

Quote

 

In short, Sessions has refused not only to allow the DEA to process these applications, but also to explain to Congress, applicants, or the public why he's interfering in regulatory actions that are routine for companies seeking to manufacture schedule I and II substances other than cannabis.

At an April Senate hearing, Sessions said approving new research cannabis manufacturers could violate the United Nations Single Convention on Narcotics. This is almost certainly not true, and several other signatory countries—the United Kingdom and Israel among them—have managed to reconcile their cannabis research policies with the U.N. agreement without stifling innovation or research. To date, this remains the only argument Sessions has publicly offered for interfering in the application review process.

 

Drug warriors have been reduced to "The UN won't let us" in their reefer madness. On any other issue, these same people would finish the sentence properly. "The UN won't let us, so fuck the UN."

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Great piece in the NY Times on how the DEA is making the opioid problem worse

 

Quote

 

The problem begins with poor design. A brainchild of Richard Nixon’s “war on drugs,” the agency sought to cut off supplies of drugs on the black market, here and abroad. But in passing the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, Congress also gave the agency broad authority over how prescription opioids and other controlled substances were classified, produced and distributed. The agency was supposed to curb problematic drug use, but failed to do so because its tactics were never informed by public health or addiction science.

...

The agency’s enforcement strategies, and the support it has lent to local and state police departments, have also fueled abusive police tactics including dangerous no-knock-raids and ethnic profiling of drivers. It has eroded civil liberties through the expansion of warrantless surveillance, and overseen arbitrary seizures of billions of dollars of private property without any clear connection to drug-related crimes. These actions have disproportionately targeted people of color, contributing to disparities in mass incarceration, confiscated property, and collective trauma.

...

As the engine of overdose deaths shifted from prescription drugs to heroin, the D.E.A. turned to its supply-reduction playbook. This resulted in a major uptick in heroin seizures and high-profile prosecutions, which encouraged traffickers to create more compact, potent drugs. In a single year, from 2014 to 2015, deaths involving the synthetic opioid fentanyl and its analogues almost doubled, setting the stage for its current role as the principal driver of overdose fatalities.

 

Prohibition continues to do only one thing well: divide people. As Eva Dent in this thread:

 

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FBI Confirms: Drug War Still Stupid
 

Quote

 

Most of the media attention will be on whether violent crime is up or down (it's down). But there's another important story in those numbers: The number one reason that people get arrested is drugs. In 2,017 there were 1.6 million arrests for "drug abuse violations." That's more than were arrested for violent crimes (518,000) or property crimes (1.25 million).

Drill down even further into the FBI stats and we see how absurdly lopsided drug-war enforcement is in the United States. Of those drug arrests, only 15 percent included charges of manufacturing and sales. Fully 85 percent of drug arrests were about simply having and/or using them.

And even as the march to decriminalize and legalize marijuana marches forward, in 2017 it was still the number one drug for getting arrested. Nationwide, 36.7 percent of drug arrests were for marijuana possession. That works out to 587,000 people arrested in a single year, just for pot.

 

Duopoly drug warriors always say they're battling hard drug dealers but the arrest numbers tell the real story when about 1/3 of them are for cannabis possession.

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FDA vs DEA on CBD
 

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A letter from the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) reveals that medical reviewers at the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) believe the federal government should lift its ban on cannabidiol, a cannabis-derived compound commonly marketed as CBD.

...

In a fight between scientists and drug cops, however, the drug cops win. The Controlled Substances Act, passed in 1970, empowers the attorney general to disregard recommendations from HHS. If Attorney General Jeff Sessions' ongoing obstruction of cannabis research is any indication, it is likely that the DEA will, for the foreseeable future, resist a broad rescheduling of CBD.

 

From General Anarchy:

On 9/22/2018 at 12:27 PM, hobot said:

CBD Oil!

I've been using it for a month now (degenitive arthritis, both hips are done), it's helped with pain reduction and I sleep through the night pretty much.

IMG_20180904_125959946.jpg


You and many like you are unknown. That's why there's no known medical use for the stuff you're using medically.

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Reefer Madness Kills California Cannabeers

Quote

 

...

The bill strikes a blow against the innovative pot cocktails that had been springing up in California, where marijuana has been legal for recreational uses since January 1. In April, L.A. Weekly profiled several Los Angeles–area bars where mixologists were experimenting with using cannabidiol (CBD) oil in drinks. Though CBD does not contain tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the psychoactive component present in marijuana, it has a calming effect and adds a new twist to traditional cocktails.

 

Those concoctions were ruled illegal by the state's Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control in July. The agency issued new rules banning the sale of alcoholic beverages made with cannabis or cannabis-derived oils, and the bill signed by Brown codifies those existing rules.

The bill was backed by a predictable mix of law enforcement and public health groups, but it faced no significant opposition. The County Health Executives Association of California, which submitted comments to the state Senate about the bill, warned that "combining the relatively unknown effects of cannabis with the known sedative effects of alcohol may have devastatingly unpredictable and harmful impacts on Californians."

...


 

OMG! We just don't know WHAT might happen if people mix their alcohol with a bit of THC-free CBD oil! But people seem to want to do it, so better ban it, just in case. Because it has something to do with the dreaded killer, marijuana, of course.

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6 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Violence is not made of drugs. Violence does not form up the desire for drugs,  and violence is not made of drugs.

The Department of Redundancy Department approves this statement.

But prohibition programs spawn violent black markets. Always have, always will.

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Ted Cruz proves that prohibition causes stupidity as well as violence
 

Quote

 

Cruz's criticism of O'Rourke's views on drug policy have been only slightly more nuanced. To his credit, Cruz still takes a federalist approach to marijuana, saying states should be free to legalize it without interference from Washington. That stance is consistent with Cruz's avowed respect for the Constitution and with public opinion. Last year a Quinnipiac University poll found that 75 percent of Americans, including 59 percent of Republicans, opposed "enforcing federal laws against marijuana" in the 29 states that "have already legalized medical or recreational marijuana." Another Quinnipiac survey conducted last April found that 61 percent of Texas voters think recreational use of marijuana should be legal. Even the Texas Republican Party has endorsed eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana possession.

Rather than swimming against the marijuana tide, Cruz portrays O'Rourke as a crazy extremist who wants to legalize all drugs. "Reasonable minds, perhaps, can differ on whether marijuana should be illegal," Cruz told reporters in May, "but what Congressman O'Rourke introduced was a resolution for the City Council to take up legalizing all narcotics, legalizing everything, legalizing heroin, legalizing deadly opioids....This country is facing a crisis—an opioid crisis...and in light of that growing tragedy, Congressman O'Rourke's radical proposal to legalize all narcotics is a suggestion that might be very popular up at Berkeley. It might be popular in far-left circles, but it doesn't reflect the values of Texans. Texans don't want to see heroin and deadly opioids legalized and our kids able to just walk in to the corner store and buy them."

Cruz was referring to O'Rourke's support, as an El Paso city councilman, for an "honest, open national debate on ending the prohibition on narcotics." O'Rourke added that recommendation to a 2009 resolution about drug war violence, and here is how he explained it at the time: "I'm not saying that we need to do that—to end the prohibition. I think we need to have a serious discussion about doing that, and that may, in the end, be the right course of action." In his 2011 book Dealing Death and Drugs: The Big Business of Dope in the U.S. and Mexico, O'Rourke claimed he mainly had in mind marijuana, which he erroneously referred to as a "narcotic" (consistent with longtime government practice). Although I wish O'Rourke were mounting a broader critique of the war on drugs, it clearly is not accurate to say he wants to "legalize all narcotics," and Cruz's bit about kids buying heroin at the corner store makes him sound like a mindless drug warrior circa 1985.

 

Note to Ted: your kids can buy opioids today.

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Massive loss for drug warriors

Is calling him "massive" a form of fat shaming? Oh well.
 

Quote

 

Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey and a longtime, outspoken opponent of marijuana legalization, appears to have endorsed the idea that states should be free to set their own policies for weed. In a video posted Monday at Marijuana Moment, a pro-legalization site that covers pot policy developments, Christie can be heard saying that "states have the right to do what they want to do on this," in response to a question about marijuana.

That's a lukewarm endorsement but a major shift for the former federal prosecutor, who promised during the 2016 Republican presidential primaries that he would, if elected, swiftly crack-down on states that had legalized weed in contradiction to federal law.

 

He reminds me a great deal of Trump. Here's the list of principles by which both men operate:

1. What looks best for me at the moment?

It's not a long list. It also makes analysis of his behavior rather straightforward. He no longer thinks it is in his interest to be a hard core drug warrior.

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That article concludes by noting that Christie can probably read polls.

Quote

 

Two-thirds of Americans now support legalizing marijuana, the highest percentage ever in Gallup's ongoing decades-long series of national polls on the topic.

When Gallup first polled Americans on legal marijuana in 1969, just 12 percent said they were in favor. As recently as 2005, barely a third of Americans were on board.

Support for legalization has spiked considerably in several key demographics over the past year. For example, there has been a nine-point increase among older Americans, with 59 percent of those aged 55 and over now saying it is time to end marijuana's criminalization.

And Republican support is rising as well, with 53 percent backing legal marijuana this year as compared to 51 percent in 2017, the first year the poll found a majority of GOP voters in favor.

 

My experience with friends and family is that those older people are having medical problems and are finding relief using cannabis products. A whole bunch of them who most emphatically would NOT have been among the 12% back in 1969 are rubbing cannabis-derived cream on their hands for arthritis, for example.

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5 Things Canada Got Right
 

Quote

 

Another important advantage of the Canadian approach is modest marijuana taxes, which help displace the black market. The national government is imposing an excise tax of 10 percent or one dollar per gram, whichever is greater, and giving the provinces 75 percent of the revenue.

That's in addition to standard sales taxes, which range from 5 percent to 15 percent. Still, the effective tax rates are substantially lower than in jurisdictions such as California and Washington, where steep taxes have made it hard for licensed merchants to compete with illegal dealers. An industry analyst recently told The New York Times that heavy taxes and burdensome regulation in California make legal marijuana something like 77 percent more expensive than marijuana sold by unlicensed dealers.

High purchase ages, like high taxes, help sustain the black market. In the U.S., all nine states that have legalized recreational use have set the minimum age for purchase or possession at 21, corresponding to the drinking age. The upshot is that most college-age adults, two-fifths of whom use marijuana, cannot do so legally.

Canada also used the rule for alcohol as a benchmark, but it has a lower drinking age. The national minimum for both alcohol and marijuana is 18, and most provinces have added a year to that cutoff.

 

There's no way that a black market price should be able to beat a legal market price.

The only way that can happen is if the people making the rules for legal businesses see only two possible ways that bureaucrats might interact with a business: tax more and regulate more.

 

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38 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

5 Things Canada Got Right
 

There's no way that a black market price should be able to beat a legal market price.

The only way that can happen is if the people making the rules for legal businesses see only two possible ways that bureaucrats might interact with a business: tax more and regulate more.

 

Happens here in Australia with tobacco. Push the legal price high enough and you create an opening for the black marketers.

This is strictly an observation - I don't smoke, haven't done for over 40 years and nobody I socialise with smokes either. I approve of suppressing smoking, just - push the price too high and a black market always appears.

FKT

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Blessed Bipartisan Unity!
 

Quote

 

Two candidates fighting for a seat in the Pennsylvania legislature are rushing to oppose a lifesaving solution to the opioid crisis. Needless to say, that's not how they're describing their policy platforms.

In the race to represent the 177th District, which includes Philadelphia, both Democrat Joe Hohenstein and Republican Patty-Pat Kozlowski want voters to know that they're strongly opposed to supervised injection facilities (SIFs), also called safe injection sites.

 

Of course, they're united in stupidity when it comes to this issue.

Quote

Earlier this year, Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kennedy announced plans to implement supervised injection facilities (SIFs), also called safe injection sites, around the city. An estimated 1,200 Philly residents died from overdose deaths in 2017—four times the city's number of homicides.

 

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Shrooms Are Good
 

Quote

 

The only reference to psilocybin on the Food and Drug Administration's website appears in the agency's Bad Bug Book: Handbook of Foodborne Pathogenic Microorganisms and Natural Toxins, where the psychedelic compound is described as a "neurotoxin" found in mushrooms. But according to the FDA, psilocybin is also a "breakthrough therapy" for major depression.

That designation, which the company seeking approval of psilocybin as a medicine announced this week, means "preliminary clinical evidence indicates that the drug may demonstrate substantial improvement over existing therapies." Based on that evidence, the FDA agrees to "expedite the development and review of such drug."

The FDA's dueling portrayals of psilocybin as a scary fungal neurotoxin and a promising treatment for depression are part of a broader story about forbidden drugs, including MDMA, marijuana, and LSD, whose benefits scientists are once again studying with government approval after decades of neglect. The rehabilitation of these substances, which may ultimately make them available as prescription drugs, is a far cry from the pharmacological freedom that libertarians favor. But it represents a welcome return to empiricism in an area of public policy long driven by irrational prejudice.

 

Well, they're at least promising, for a neurotoxin.

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 How about a little race-baiting this morning? We have Tom Ray for that.  :P

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14 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

I'm so fucking stupid I can't develop an opinion on this topic so I just attack the messenger.

Yes, it's obvious.

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5 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

Yes, it's obvious.

If you race-bait the same guy for 3.5 years, across forty threads, you are attacking that messenger. Hmm, race-baiting is a poor offensive weapon, IMO. (Ask Kelly Ann.)

 

Hi there, Tom, old sport. You have race-baited me for 3.5 years (can cite.) You really went at it this week, with daily race-baiting. Good job. Your own input shows that not even Dylann  Roof could enlighten your approach.

Quote

Your grand-child figure will find this TR activity on the internet, after googling your name. She will ask her mother what race-baiting is. I wish I could be there to hear the answer.

I am ready to draw the race-baiting out of you forever, as long as the motivation remains a part of you. I once went to the wall for MLK, mate, and this is more of the same.

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9 hours ago, jocal505 said:

I finally figured out that mentioning mass murderers over and over incites more mass murderers, who are very politically convenient.

Yes, that's also obvious.

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You had a nice, well-developed thread going, talking to yourself about drugs. Then the race-baiting began kinda following you around. 

And not stupid, but ignorant is the guy who mentions Japan during suicide discussions. Ignorant is the man who refers to MLK in terms of guns. Ignorant is the man who would claim that federal funding for gun vioence research is not denied. Ignorant is the man who can't speak the truth, as he sees it, about The Standard Model. Ignorant is the man who can't quote Miller well, in the face of those who do. 

And ignorant are the race-baiters. But neither of us is stupid.

You crack me up Tom. 

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4 States Voting On Cannabis Prohibition.

Michigan, N Dakota, Missourah, and Utah.

Utah?
 

Quote

 

In an interview with Roll Call this month, Sen. Cory Gardner (R-Colo.) described Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's dismay upon hearing that voters in Utah seem set to approve medical marijuana when they go to the polls on November 6. "I said that even Utah is most likely going to legalize medical marijuana this year," Gardner recalled. "McConnell looks and me, and he goes, 'Utah?' [He had] this terrified look. And as he says that, Orrin Hatch walks up, and Mitch looks at Orrin and says, 'Orrin, is Utah really going to legalize marijuana?' And Orrin Hatch folds his hands, looks down at his feet, and says, 'First tea, then coffee, and now this.'"

Notwithstanding opposition from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, polls indicate that nearly two-thirds of Utah voters think patients should be able to use marijuana if their doctors recommend it.

 

It's hard to tell whether Orrin means to be funny sometimes.

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Ecstasy Helps PTSD Patients

Quote

MAPSA newly published study of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for people diagnosed with posttraumatic stress disorder illustrates the striking results that led federal regulators to expedite the process for approving the drug, which has been banned since 1985, as a prescription medicine. One year after the last of three MDMA sessions, three-quarters of the 25 subjects who completed the study, reported today in the Journal of Psychopharmacology, no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis.

"Screw all those veterans and their scary memories! Someone might get an illegal smile from this stuff so it must be banned"

(Likely drug warrior quote)

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Not convinced about Ecstasy use.

Two things come to mind

  1. there is a syndrome called 'loss of magic' where long term users report the effects reduce as use increases.
  2. there is a comedown from E, don't ask me how I know.  For every smile there is an equal and opposite frown.

Perhaps micro-dosing is different but I doubt it.

More interesting and more effective for PTSD are LSD and Mushrooms.  They do not develop dependencies and there is no price to pay for the experience if managed well.

Have a read about research on them recently.

 

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14 minutes ago, random said:

More interesting and more effective for PTSD are LSD and Mushrooms.  They do not develop dependencies and there is no price to pay for the experience if managed well. 

Have a read about research on them recently. 

Sounds like a good idea. Where might I find info about shrooms?

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8 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Sounds like a good idea. Where might I find info about shrooms?

So you know all about it then.

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Just now, random said:

So you know all about it then.

A bit more than I should, perhaps. Just being sarcastic because I have mentioned both recently in this thread.

Lots of naughty drugs seem helpful for mental problems.

I never actually tried Ecstasy but had friends in college who did it a LOT. If it helps someone who isn't helped by shrooms or pot or acid or any other naughty thing, I don't see the problem. There are tolerance and side effect issues? Name a drug without those.

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Shrooms and LSD are not addictive, in fact they are the opposite.  After a 'heroic dose' of shrooms some people take months or years to digest what happened.  Some have life long positive benefits from just one treatment.

As far as I know, the side effects of shrooms are an awareness that all things are connected, a loss of the fear of death, and a general feeling of happiness.   Oh, and the loss of desire to take them anytime soon.  Sounds like a dangerous drug indeed.

Edit: For those curious, anyone who dies not having tried Ecstasy is a fuckwit.   I do not recommend the drug for regular use but given that it is not habit forming.   I have experienced pure Ecstasy hanging-ten over the end of a surfboard on a crystal clear still day watching the sandbank pass under me as if I was flying, followed closely by an E with friends.  It has to be experienced. 

I intend to do it when I am incapacitated and dying.

 

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20 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

4 States Voting On Cannabis Prohibition.

Michigan, N Dakota, Missourah, and Utah.

Utah?
 

It's hard to tell whether Orrin means to be funny sometimes.

 

Utahans - particularly in Salt Lake City - are generally pretty pragmatic.  At one point, Salt Lake City had the second highest percentage of gays and lesbians in the US because the Mormons there were very good about providing free health care to AIDS sufferers.  They also have a very high veteran population.  It doesn't surprise me that they'd be inclined to legalize drugs for medicinal use. The weirder Mormans were actually pushed toward the west deserts/Nevada and northern Arizona.

 

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23 minutes ago, random said:

After a 'heroic dose' of shrooms some people take months or years to digest what happened.  Some have life long positive benefits from just one treatment.

As far as I know, the side effects of shrooms are an awareness that all things are connected, a loss of the fear of death, and a general feeling of happiness.   Oh, and the loss of desire to take them anytime soon.

I can confirm only the last one by referencing my list of things I know but should not.

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2 minutes ago, VOA said:

Flying the pig of steel avatar and you ask? You're fake.

What, you thought I was the real Pig of Steel? 

That's fuckin funni

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On 11/1/2018 at 5:24 PM, Crop42 said:

I stick to a point of view read on cannasos.com that it should be a responsible usage and only by those who really need it.

Buy an ad.

Attempted RICO Abuse Fails
 

Quote

 

Last week a Denver jury rejected RICO claims by a couple who complained that an indoor marijuana cultivation facility had impaired their enjoyment of their property and reduced its value. Michael and Hope Reilly, who own a horse ranch in Pueblo County, said a nearby warehouse (right) where state-licensed cultivator Parker Walton grows marijuana had spoiled their view, generated noise and unpleasant odors, and offended them with its flagrant violation of federal law. During the three-day trial, Walton's lawyer, Matthew Buck, presented evidence that the warehouse was not the source of the smell that bothered the Reillys and noted that the value of their property has been rising in recent years.

...

The jury took just a few hours to decide that the Reillys had failed to show Walton's operation was the proximate cause of any injury to them. University of Denver law professor Sam Kamin thinks the verdict will take some wind out of efforts by opponents of legalization to use RICO lawsuits as a weapon against cannabusinesses.

 

This is the problem with a Swiss Army Knife of a law that was alleged to be needed to go after mobsters.

The targets turn out to mostly not be mobsters.

When TeamR types want to abuse the law, they'll say cannabusinesses are mobsters. TeamD types target churches.

This lawsuit was just harassment by people who lost at the ballot box and decided to file a frivolous claim in court. The original dismissal was correct and it would not have been reinstated but for RICO provisions that "we need to go after mobsters."

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Good thread. Plenty intelligent, so far.

How well will race baiting work in this thread? It kinda dumbs down the conversation, I find.

dred, Dylann burning flag.JPG

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3 hours ago, Fakenews said:

Tom talking to himself is not a good sign.

The fight against the Duopoly's stupid prohibition program isn't nearly as lonely as it once was, but I admit that the change is a bit difficult to detect.

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