• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2016

Recommended Posts

 

What is the forecast?

 

That's a Big ask - the 2016 Hobart is 18 months away ;)

 

i wondered the same thing, why skip this years, it should be just as fun !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just checked with the penguins.

Snow on the beaches in Storm Bay.

Penguins are pissed as they were told that global warming meant they had to move south.

Now refusing to cooperate.

One of them did say that he had recently seen Lydia on the beach in Port Davey with a tape measure an old huon pine loggers punt and a canvas tarp and muttering something about the Rating Office.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard a rumour that the CYC might be considering whether to consider letting multihulls in. The concern is how will they fare in a collision with a sunfish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously the Oats designers don't think a beamy boat like Comanche is the way to go otherwise they'd be building a new boat. They are looking for something new with the hull to suit the foils they have in mind imo. Lot to look forward to with these new designs like the Imoca boats. Oh and the forecast is for a South Wester at 18-23 Knots on the start and then light and variable by first morning slowly building to a Southerly buster by the 2nd night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Obviously the Oats designers don't think a beamy boat like Comanche is the way to go otherwise they'd be building a new boat cutting the fucker down the middle with a chainsaw and stretching her out.

 

FIFY

 

 

+1, easier to add length than beam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the boats were capped at 100 feet? Is the talk they are going to go bigger? Also what happened to the 60' Ichi Bahn? Matt is sailing the TP52 nowadays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the boats were capped at 100 feet? Is the talk they are going to go bigger? Also what happened to the 60' Ichi Bahn? Matt is sailing the TP52 nowadays.

 

My bad, not add length as such but play around with it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously the Oats designers don't think a beamy boat like Comanche is the way to go otherwise they'd be building a new boat. They are looking for something new with the hull to suit the foils they have in mind imo. Lot to look forward to with these new designs like the Imoca boats. Oh and the forecast is for a South Wester at 18-23 Knots on the start and then light and variable by first morning slowly building to a Southerly buster by the 2nd night.

Fuckit! Thanks for the forecast. We'll turn left this year I guess ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WO XI adding to the bow and taking off at the back. So still 100ft. Now wither bigger headsails and code zeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the boats were capped at 100 feet? Is the talk they are going to go bigger? Also what happened to the 60' Ichi Bahn? Matt is sailing the TP52 nowadays.

Shhh. We don't talk about 'that' Ichi Ban. She will be despatched to the orphanage like the red headed bastard step-child she is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

They should allow moths

 

100ft moths.

 

Heh, or maybe not, but perhaps a 100 footer with a nice scow bow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

They should allow moths

 

100ft moths.

 

Heh, or maybe not, but perhaps a 100 footer with a nice scow bow?

 

You could describe a scow bow as many things.........but I'm not sure about nice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had to re - read the plan a few times, but they said they are chopping off 3 meters of stern, adding to the front and not moving the foils / mast etc.... wonder if they are leaving the boom and mainsail plan relatively as it is?

 

Looks like the rear of the boom could still be in the yacht with - 3 meters of stern?

 

Wonder if it would be getting close to the size of Commanche's foredeck / head sails ....not that it needed to :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

They should allow moths

 

100ft moths.

 

Heh, or maybe not, but perhaps a 100 footer with a nice scow bow?

 

You could describe a scow bow as many things.........but I'm not sure about nice?

 

Yes, that is debatable, however, I think there would be room for more daring designs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect Oats already new this and hence their decision to do a major on the boat. Clearly they are chasing the best of both worlds but if the breeze is in me think the VPLP Carrier will smoke the fleet. Great for the publicity of the great race.! Can the cut and shut Oats begin a new life as a Comanche killer.?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there was always a very very high probability Comanche was always coming back to this year's S2H. The two subsequent long distance races she did, the Transat and Fasnet not having record breaking weather, except for part of the former for a 24hr distance record also helped the decision to return.

 

The other underlying reason that makes turning up for S2H compelling is that it is a ocean race and not a passage record attempt and WOXI provides one of the few real competitors they have in the world at the moment. The Oatleys obliging by cutting WOXI up again to maintain that competitiveness is something agreeable maxi owners do to support each others investment. It is good to see the Comanche team acknowledge that by coming back. Throw in R88 and the odd other competitive maxi and it would then border on them looking too scared to turn up. :-)

 

Other long distance races that attract maxi mono competition are also not thick on the ground as they are not held every year like Newport to Bermuda, Round Great Britain and Ireland (good VOR warm up), the Transat and Transpac but where this year the calendars for the last two collided.

 

Maxi Mono unassisted passage records outside ocean races where they can sit and wait for an agreeable weather pattern are also either not many in number such as Transatlantic W to E and E to W and Round the World or more historical such as retracing the old Clipper routes. These include San Francisco to Shanghai, New York to San Francisco and Cadiz to San Salvador.

 

Maserati the ex VO70 Ericsson 3 has been running around recently nailing those however I'm not sure those style records are on Comanche's radar anyway.

 

As a side note with Soldini bringing Maserati to Hobart that will make for an interesting battle with Black Jack and Giacomo, three Juan K VO70's of different vintages together. My money would be on the local lads who are sporting a new Jenny Craig keel for this year.

 

Other than making Comanche single-handed friendly which is probably not possible, there is not an abundance of prestigious record breaking races out there for a crewed maxi mono to chase. Hence the decision to build it with a manual/unassisted option to widen the record landscape.

 

S2H therefore must be up near the top of the list in the prestiege stakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too early to bring this thread back? Any predictions for next year? Has anyone seen an early weather forecast? Which Super Maxi's will be back?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The early forecast is that it's likely wind will blow from certain directions from 0-360°

 

Also there will be boats racing

 

One of those boats will win the race

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be getting ready for the "Blockade the Sydney Hobart Race Movement"

Rumour has it the Facebook page goes live next week.

The "No fish farms for the east coast" Facebook page has been round for while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets hope the Scallywag owner is serious about the campaign.?

 

Looks damn serious to me :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Lets hope the Scallywag owner is serious about the campaign.?

 

Looks damn serious to me :)

 

 

Yeah but to Oats standard? Did you see the start of the Gold Coast race? All I want is for someone to give Oats a run for her money. I bet you if you swapped owners, sailors and campaigns to each others boat Scallywag would be winning just like Oats is now. Early days but I suspect the Oats dominance will continue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Lets hope the Scallywag owner is serious about the campaign.?

 

Looks damn serious to me :)

 

 

Yeah but to Oats standard? Did you see the start of the Gold Coast race? All I want is for someone to give Oats a run for her money. I bet you if you swapped owners, sailors and campaigns to each others boat Scallywag would be winning just like Oats is now. Early days but I suspect the Oats dominance will continue.

 

 

Oats didn't dominate very well in 2015.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Lets hope the Scallywag owner is serious about the campaign.?

Looks damn serious to me :)

Yeah but to Oats standard? Did you see the start of the Gold Coast race? All I want is for someone to give Oats a run for her money. I bet you if you swapped owners, sailors and campaigns to each others boat Scallywag would be winning just like Oats is now. Early days but I suspect the Oats dominance will continue.

Tough call. WOXI team obviously benefit from time in the boat over the last 10yrs. RAGS was quick in the TP but WOXI was still 2-3% quicker when the closer together towards the end.nGold Coast race was first race after WOXI's mods - will they be quicker than ever or did they loose their edge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Lets hope the Scallywag owner is serious about the campaign.?

 

Looks damn serious to me :)

 

 

Yeah but to Oats standard? Did you see the start of the Gold Coast race? All I want is for someone to give Oats a run for her money. I bet you if you swapped owners, sailors and campaigns to each others boat Scallywag would be winning just like Oats is now. Early days but I suspect the Oats dominance will continue.

 

 

I saw a short video posted here.

 

I don't know what the schedule is for Oats, but Scallywag is going to do a lot of races in the coming months (not sure what Oats is planning?), and obviously they will improve as a team through that. The team is not 100% pro either, as I understand it - at least it wasn't when they were Ragamuffin 100. So if Oats consists of just pro sailors, Rags was half corinthian. Not sure what the deal is with the new owner, but it will be interesting to follow them. Of course it would be nice for the sport to have more than one 100-footer who can win, to make it more exciting.

 

Anyway, I hope to do a delivery with them again this fall, so I'll give them some Viking tips :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Scallywag is going to do a lot of races in the coming months (not sure what Oats is planning?), and obviously they will improve as a team through that. Of course it would be nice for the sport to have more than one 100-footer who can win, to make it more exciting.

 

:P

I bet the Comanche guys would echo this sentiment as well!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

C'mon - I talk a lotta shit but I think that's a pretty fair statement.

 

It is :) Anyway, they (scallywag) have a sense of irony and stated ".......we managed to shorten the gap between us and them from 5.7 miles at twilight to under 200m by 9am. Unfortunately, as we were trying to overtake them, our keel ram exploded due to currently unknown reasons (also funnily enough it was the old Wild Oats keel)"

 

I hope they keep up with their down to earth and entertaining updates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Lets hope the Scallywag owner is serious about the campaign.?

 

Looks damn serious to me :)

 

 

Yeah but to Oats standard? Did you see the start of the Gold Coast race? All I want is for someone to give Oats a run for her money. I bet you if you swapped owners, sailors and campaigns to each others boat Scallywag would be winning just like Oats is now. Early days but I suspect the Oats dominance will continue.

 

 

you need to get out more.

 

Scallywag completely rooted that start - if they'd had a result, I'd be surprised if half a dozen boats didn't protest her out.

 

6 hours into the race, before the breeze clapped out, they were neck and neck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't Scallywag's deck beat Oats to Hobart?

 

Comanche will be back (fingers crossed)

 

Oats are doing the Keppel race and Hamo so at least have some practice with the new configuration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to my knowledge, FB'ers might know - but they cut & shut it before the 2015 Hobart but pulled out on the first night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oats has a new configuration since the 2015 Hobart?

 

No, but apart from pre-Hobart training and a week's worth of sailing before this year's Southport they've done bugger all time with the boat in this configuration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Lets hope the Scallywag owner is serious about the campaign.?

 

Looks damn serious to me :)

 

 

Yeah but to Oats standard? Did you see the start of the Gold Coast race? All I want is for someone to give Oats a run for her money. I bet you if you swapped owners, sailors and campaigns to each others boat Scallywag would be winning just like Oats is now. Early days but I suspect the Oats dominance will continue.

 

 

you need to get out more.

 

Scallywag completely rooted that start - if they'd had a result, I'd be surprised if half a dozen boats didn't protest her out.

 

6 hours into the race, before the breeze clapped out, they were neck and neck.

 

 

Yeap, WO will be back in the shop real soon to stitch on the old bow. Has definitely been slower after last years mods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Lets hope the Scallywag owner is serious about the campaign.?

 

Looks damn serious to me :)

 

 

Yeah but to Oats standard? Did you see the start of the Gold Coast race? All I want is for someone to give Oats a run for her money. I bet you if you swapped owners, sailors and campaigns to each others boat Scallywag would be winning just like Oats is now. Early days but I suspect the Oats dominance will continue.

 

 

you need to get out more.

 

Scallywag completely rooted that start - if they'd had a result, I'd be surprised if half a dozen boats didn't protest her out.

 

6 hours into the race, before the breeze clapped out, they were neck and neck.

 

 

Yeap, WO will be back in the shop real soon to stitch on the old bow. Has definitely been slower after last years mods.

 

 

I doubt it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really much basis for the slower assertion.

 

12 hours of Hobart and a very light Southport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

would love to see esmit europa line up against oats to see the difference. Oats used to be way faster then everything else. Now it seems like their only benefit is boat handling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

would love to see esmit europa line up against oats to see the difference. Oats used to be way faster then everything else. Now it seems like their only benefit is boat handling

 

The changes were made to improve heavy weather running and reaching. There may have been some light weather sacrifice don't know for sure? Ask Abbo and Jack Sparrow? Early days still imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EE would be fighting it out with Rambler 88 for a 4th IMACO.

 

DId Comanche ever fit those J Boards shown in the early renderings?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comanche renderings were the ones with the J Boards. I suspect those were a red herring to any other team also doing the design spiral.

 

EE hasn't touched water in a while eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comanche renderings were the ones with the J Boards. I suspect those were a red herring to any other team also doing the design spiral.

 

EE hasn't touched water in a while eh?

 

EE didn't touch the water since Palermo Montecarlo 2015. Someone says they lost their sponsor...

Anyway according to this post they will race again soon (it was April...):

http://www.esimit.com/news/255/35/Esimit-Europa-2-ready-for-new-challenges/

 

Hope to see her sail again late this year... Maybe maxi yacht cup or middle sea race...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

would love to see esmit europa line up against oats to see the difference. Oats used to be way faster then everything else. Now it seems like their only benefit is boat handling

 

The changes were made to improve heavy weather running and reaching. There may have been some light weather sacrifice don't know for sure? Ask Abbo and Jack Sparrow? Early days still imo

 

 

Either WO is slower post mods or Rags is quicker.

Pick one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

would love to see esmit europa line up against oats to see the difference. Oats used to be way faster then everything else. Now it seems like their only benefit is boat handling

 

The changes were made to improve heavy weather running and reaching. There may have been some light weather sacrifice don't know for sure? Ask Abbo and Jack Sparrow? Early days still imo

 

 

Either WO is slower post mods or Rags is quicker.

Pick one.

 

Doubt WOXI is slower, overall wetted area and rig size unchanged AFAIK, just moved around a bit.

 

ORCi Certs show that Scallywag is about 3 tons lighter, has plenty more sail area and a little more WSA plus 25% more righting moment (more beam plus water ballast) so ought to be decently quicker than WOXI upwind and downwind. WOXI's A-sail is way bigger but is probably only useful over a narrow range of wind angles given what these machines to to AWA when they wind up. Scallywag's code 0 is close to 10% bigger than WOXI's

 

IMHO Scallywag is underperforming by a long way given those numbers.

 

Scallywag

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/81183.pdf

 

WOXI

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/80837.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

would love to see esmit europa line up against oats to see the difference. Oats used to be way faster then everything else. Now it seems like their only benefit is boat handling

 

The changes were made to improve heavy weather running and reaching. There may have been some light weather sacrifice don't know for sure? Ask Abbo and Jack Sparrow? Early days still imo

 

 

Either WO is slower post mods or Rags is quicker.

Pick one.

 

Doubt WOXI is slower, overall wetted area and rig size unchanged AFAIK, just moved around a bit.

 

ORCi Certs show that Scallywag is about 3 tons lighter, has plenty more sail area and a little more WSA plus 25% more righting moment (more beam plus water ballast) so ought to be decently quicker than WOXI upwind and downwind. WOXI's A-sail is way bigger but is probably only useful over a narrow range of wind angles given what these machines to to AWA when they wind up. Scallywag's code 0 is close to 10% bigger than WOXI's

 

IMHO Scallywag is underperforming by a long way given those numbers.

 

Scallywag

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/81183.pdf

 

WOXI

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/80837.pdf

 

 

+1 Hence my original comments if crews/campaigns were swapped Scallywag would be the winning boat IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

would love to see esmit europa line up against oats to see the difference. Oats used to be way faster then everything else. Now it seems like their only benefit is boat handling

 

The changes were made to improve heavy weather running and reaching. There may have been some light weather sacrifice don't know for sure? Ask Abbo and Jack Sparrow? Early days still imo

 

 

Either WO is slower post mods or Rags is quicker.

Pick one.

 

Doubt WOXI is slower, overall wetted area and rig size unchanged AFAIK, just moved around a bit.

 

ORCi Certs show that Scallywag is about 3 tons lighter, has plenty more sail area and a little more WSA plus 25% more righting moment (more beam plus water ballast) so ought to be decently quicker than WOXI upwind and downwind. WOXI's A-sail is way bigger but is probably only useful over a narrow range of wind angles given what these machines to to AWA when they wind up. Scallywag's code 0 is close to 10% bigger than WOXI's

 

IMHO Scallywag is underperforming by a long way given those numbers.

 

Scallywag

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/81183.pdf

 

WOXI

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/80837.pdf

 

The difference is more likely to be 10 years of sailing one boat vs really not very much time at all sailing the other.

Then there's the dickhead factor as demonstrated so clearly at the Southport race start last week, Fuck-Witt wins on that score, hands down.

Oh, and Ricko has better hair too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Won't have to wait long for an answer - they're going head to head for a week shortly. Richards match racing experience V. Witt's Skiff experience.

 

Very easy to catch up from behind like Scallywag did in the Southport when it's patchy - avoid the holes. That's how Loyal Won in 2011.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

would love to see esmit europa line up against oats to see the difference. Oats used to be way faster then everything else. Now it seems like their only benefit is boat handling

The changes were made to improve heavy weather running and reaching. There may have been some light weather sacrifice don't know for sure? Ask Abbo and Jack Sparrow? Early days still imo

Either WO is slower post mods or Rags is quicker.

Pick one.

Doubt WOXI is slower, overall wetted area and rig size unchanged AFAIK, just moved around a bit.

 

ORCi Certs show that Scallywag is about 3 tons lighter, has plenty more sail area and a little more WSA plus 25% more righting moment (more beam plus water ballast) so ought to be decently quicker than WOXI upwind and downwind. WOXI's A-sail is way bigger but is probably only useful over a narrow range of wind angles given what these machines to to AWA when they wind up. Scallywag's code 0 is close to 10% bigger than WOXI's

 

IMHO Scallywag is underperforming by a long way given those numbers.

 

Scallywag

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/81183.pdf

 

WOXI

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/80837.pdf

+1 Hence my original comments if crews/campaigns were swapped Scallywag would be the winning boat IMO.

But what those numbers don't tell you is that WOXI has significantly lower drag hull form balancing the equation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Doubt WOXI is slower, overall wetted area and rig size unchanged AFAIK, just moved around a bit.

ORCi Certs show that Scallywag is about 3 tons lighter, has plenty more sail area and a little more WSA plus 25% more righting moment (more beam plus water ballast) so ought to be decently quicker than WOXI upwind and downwind. WOXI's A-sail is way bigger but is probably only useful over a narrow range of wind angles given what these machines to to AWA when they wind up. Scallywag's code 0 is close to 10% bigger than WOXI's

 

IMHO Scallywag is underperforming by a long way given those numbers.

 

Scallywag

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/81183.pdf

 

WOXI

http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/80837.pdf

+1 Hence my original comments if crews/campaigns were swapped Scallywag would be the winning boat IMO.

But what those numbers don't tell you is that WOXI has significantly lower drag hull form balancing the equation.

 

Not so - the overall TCC is only 3 sec a mile different despite those spec differences so it looks like ORCi is picking up the hull drag factor. It would be instructive to compare the speeds for the two boats across the wind range and angles, the data is there in the certs, but I've better things to do with my time right now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Won't have to wait long for an answer - they're going head to head for a week shortly. Richards match racing experience V. Witt's Skiff experience.

 

Very easy to catch up from behind like Scallywag did in the Southport when it's patchy - avoid the holes. That's how Loyal Won in 2011.

I am sure that Scallywag will be repaired in time. Its not an off-the-shelf item

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have they got one yet? Could try getting digging up Joseph Bramah to see if he could help with this new fangled tech.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have they got one yet? Could try getting digging up Joseph Bramah to see if he could help with th