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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
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BarfBag

Wanna Play Kite Boat?!

31 posts in this topic

Looking for an adventurous, sensible, practical, keen, reliable, seaworthy, innovative, creative

kiteboarder type to join me in R&D and exploring the Race to Alaska next year on a long / skinny,

enclosed kite boat.

PM me if it's you or you know a potential candidate.

Thanks

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You're on the same track I was thinking, but now add some L shapped daggerboards to add daytime foiling capability!

That was my thought.

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Ya, I just can't get my head around the added complication/vulnerability of foils for the return.

Where do you live?

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A light tri would be the best platform.

 

if you can spread the steering lines of the kite ( outside lines) wider than the width of the kite itself, it becomes a much more stable beast.

Meaning it would require far less steering input from the crew to hold a certain spot in the sky. Way better for long distance passages.

 

I would suggest a foil kite (non inflatable)

 

Tricky part would be deployment and retrieval.

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...It's only a matter of time and kitepower will be used for ocean passages.,perhaps foils, but I think wave-piercing design might find it's place too!.

R2Ak would be a great test, proving ground for these,,,even though you'll likely see a fair bit of upwind and variable winds,,I'd say there's huge potential! ;)

 

maxresdefault.jpglook-ma-no-sails-project-kite-boats-com.kite-boat-elgyka-design.jpgKOAS3.jpgDouarnenez-2007_kiteboatspeed.jpg

 

.....I feel like the DL of kite passage! :o:rolleyes:

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.

 

....there's definitely some wtf factor in this effort...wonder if they've advanced things over the past 2 years? :huh: ...

 

 

 

 

...let's keep this in the kite forum so nobody else gets the idea! :lol:

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Well, at least that Multi 23 could put it's rig back in and be a real boat again.

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Well, at least that Multi 23 could put it's rig back in and be a real boat again.

 

...that's the post above? If so,,I'm glad to hear they didn't purpose-build!

 

 

It must be an early iteration of the http://www.kiteboatspeed.com/ effort., looks like the went further.....

 

..but strangely this one was some 5 years earlier in 2007!

 

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Yep, definitely a Multi 23. You can see one of it's biggest issues is (IMHO) excess dihedral. Without the mast and it's heeling moment to stabilize the platform it's rock and roll time. Just looking at it, I think the standard rig would have been faster as well.

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.

 

...strange that they were playing with the multi 23 6 years after this machine :wacko:

 

.... mannn, if they developed this project any more in the past 5 years, I'd be thinking all you need is a nice motel in Nanaimo and a couple of lunches! :o .....

 

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...and these guys have it down to a couple of snacks :mellow: ........

....that's my style,,,a nice lay-Z-buoy in the middle,, :)

.........even nicer now if you check out sept's video on their site.

 

...actually the http://project.kiteboat.com/news/ guys have some very recent footage from this sept....looking organized and VERY relaxed on deck!!

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Looking for an adventurous, sensible, practical, keen, reliable, seaworthy, innovative, creative

kiteboarder type to join me in R&D and exploring the Race to Alaska next year on a long / skinny,

enclosed kite boat.

PM me if it's you or you know a potential candidate.

Thanks

 

 

...looks like others are looking too! ;) ........

 

Kiteboat Project Kai Concepts
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ENTRY-LEVEL TEAM MEMBER
ENTRY-LEVEL TEAM MEMBER Job Description

We are hoping to add a full-time person to our kiteboat development team who has a strong background in either general fabrication (woodworking, metalworking, and composites) and/or design and engineering. The ideal candidate also has experience with or interest in how these skills are applied to ultra-lightweight marine platforms. Because we often complete projects on an aggressive schedule with a relatively short period of preparation, this position presents a unique opportunity for design and engineering to occur on the shop floor. The ideal candidate will be able to make to design changes and tight deadlines and will be equally at ease working independently and collaborating with other team members to solve problems. All full-time team members will be involved in on-water testing. This step closes the design loop and allows everyone to gain firsthand experience and perspective on the choices that were made during the build process.

Key Responsibilities
  • To assist with multiple phases of ultra-lightweight boat development, maintenance, and repair. These phases include: plug and mold construction, lamination and vacuum infusion with fiberglass and carbon fiber, vacuum bagging of laminates, grinding and sanding, secondary bonding with structural glues, and may include use of CAD programs, use of CAM machines, or kite rigging.
  • To assist during boat tests as crew on either the kiteboat, the support boat, or the shore support team.
Necessary Skills
  • An aptitude for and willingness to learn new skills.
  • Ability to adapt to design and schedule changes as needed.
Desirable Skills
  • A background in engineering, physics, marine architecture, carpentry, boat-building, or similar.
  • Familiarity with woodworking and an understanding of power tools, including their proper care and maintenance.
  • Familiarity with metalworking to a marine standard including drilling, tapping, milling, and turning aluminum and stainless steel.
  • Familiarity with composites work and lamination techniques, including work with wet lay-ups, pre-preg, and vacuum infusion.
  • Any specialization in the marine industry such as kite or sail repair, rigging, rope splicing, etc.
  • Any boating or kiting experience including racing, cruising, commercial fishing, etc.
  • Familiarity with CAD software such as Rhino, or with computer-aided machining such as using a CNC router.
  • Willingness to put in extra hours.
Compensation

Compensation will be commensurate with experience and skill set and may include benefits package. This is an entry-level position.

MG_9049-720x480.jpg

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....this looks like a useful schematic........

 

kiteboats_vs_sailboats_titles_Kiteboat.p

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....I was wondering how these spider-boats do in an open seaway,,,,hadn't expected to see........this!! :o .....

KiteBoat_01.png

....of course it's all........ back to the future.... according to the original patent holders of bladder kites....

......''The first kites were tested in catamarans, small fishing boats, water skis, windsurf boards, inflatable boats, kayaks, and many other watercraft devices.'' http://www.surfertod...ignoux-brothers

Don Montague, principle of the Kiteboat project in SF comes from wayyy back,, was a rider for Gaastra in the 80's ,then head designer with Naish early in their game when he started to mess with outrigger canoes and boats. I wouldn't be surprised if he's pictured in the hobie kitefoiler above. Seems he's got his eyes on a record run to Hawaii.

.........''We made a lot of progress and realized hydrofoils were the best way to utilize the kite because of the lifting forces of the kite. It was also relatively dry and I was really tired of being cold and wet. Our first boat was a catamaran that flew on two T-foils and two J-foils. We worked on that for about three years and also built a bigger 30-foot boat.

That one had hydraulic steering and we really figured out the kite launching. Then the Marine Science Technology Foundation came along and they wanted me to work on looking at actually pulling ships with a kite.

They provided really good funding and I was able to hire eight full-time people outside of what was happening at Makani. At that time, Makani was up to 50 engineers. I broke off the Kite Boat Project from Makani and named it KAI (Kite Assist Institute).

During the last three years we’ve built a number of kite boats and have learned a lot. Now, I’m going into a new project called KAI Concepts. The goal is to go from San Francisco to Hawaii and break the sailing record with a kite boat.''

A VERY interesting backgrounder... http://www.thekitebo...teboat-project/

 

 

If these kites are too complicated and dangerous for the general sailing public, do you see kites being a part of the sail quiver of an ocean-going racing sailboat?

Yes. This is going to explode in their world. A lot of the big names in sailing are closely following what we’re doing here.

...a LONG way from the trifoiler....''On the latest boats, there’s a series of servos that the boat driver controls. Something you don’t see is that we’re actually changing the profile of the kite while we’re out there. We change it through pressure, but that’s all top secret. The way we depower and turn the kite is sometimes all done through an Android phone.''

...according to Montague....''There’s no question that a kite will be some part of a sailing around the world record attempt.'' :mellow:

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.....ahhh,yes ^^^^^^ who can forget Jacob's Ladder! :)

...had my first concept of...''hmm, I bet you could sail a boat with one of those fibrefoil 2line kites'',,,went into a store in seattle and saw that shot! ....not long before a guy did a run on waterski's in the gorge :o

 

 

 

 

...here's a more basic approach at ocean passage...Peru to Tahiti,, 3800nm in 77days,,,~50mi/day.

 

..a beautiful french lasse!...quite the adventurer.... http://www.anne-quemere.com/?page_id=2456

 

...the boat was ~180 lbs of carbon,core,poxy

 

This odyssey fraught with pitfalls and technical problems made ​​me push my own limits and discover a little more who I am experiencing the most extreme solitude . Indeed , a week after the start, my means of communication have broken down , leaving me totally alone in this great ocean.

 

7.jpg

 

fonddiapoweb2015.jpg

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.

...here's a more grassroots effort....at first the boat looks like a nice R2Ak type effort,,,,but then he climbs on with a conventional kite, sits down in the comfy swivel armchair,,,,,but the kite -really- is conventional,,connected to the sailor's kiteboard harness,,not the boat!!! ...looks to be doing ~6kts in 30 :wacko:

http://www.dailymoti...sport#tab_embed

...some evolution with this next effort,, and some good learning for others going down this route :mellow: ....

http://www.dailymoti...-avec-l-a_sport

 

 

.....and the kitetender guys,,,nice kit,,good filming,,,but can't make out how they do upwind....

 

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..

 

...here's one to make the proa guys happy,,some good ideas there......

a20810a12167651481ec1a515f21c1ee.jpg

 

 

 

...and of course there's a whole realm of boat-kites. This thread derail has been fun,,, I can tell there's -many- more projects in the google world and beyond,, but I'll leave it here fer now.......

 

 

 

...I'll bet you could get a few totally unsuspecting riders on for a 'tube-ride' :mellow: ......

 

kitetubeact6500.jpg

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And another one http://harryproa.com/?p=424 The video is more about the foil than the kite, but gives the general idea.

 

This is a prototype for a 12m offshore version, once all the bugs are out.

 

Couch, any more details on the proa?

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And another one http://harryproa.com/?p=424 The video is more about the foil than the kite, but gives the general idea.

 

This is a prototype for a 12m offshore version, once all the bugs are out.

 

Couch, any more details on the proa?

...hey that's wayy cool! Though I guess it would have been better to be up on foils before going over the shoal :mellow:

...what length is that proa in the video?

My first impression is that this is the closest I've seen for using for purposes of the R2Ak, assuming there's plans available(?)

It's interesting it was easier to sail upwind than down,,perhaps a different story if you were flying a larger kite to give sufficient power for downwind :huh: What size was the kite pictured?

.....my impression is that there was a foil under the windward hull but not the main hull?

Unfortunately,,I couldn't find more details on the proa above. My search consisted of googling 'kite boat picture', then double clicking on the picture, which usually took me to the boats site,,,except for the proa. All I got was a general 'proa whoa' site ..... https://www.pinteres...sley/proa-whoa/

......I guess when it comes to the R2Ak,,there's lots of tornado,Hobie 20 hulls around,,,not a bad start., add some kites and away yer go!

...here's the thillyest result from the search......

Indulge yourself in various water sports in the blue sea of Sanya :rolleyes:

Kite Boarding As a worldly popular newly-emerged water sport, Sanya gives kite boarding a prime location. The spacious marine area and beaches at Sanya Bay and Yalong Bay are superior positions for kite boarding. There kite boarding school in Sanya today offers training courses and devices renting.

1921_6.jpg

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...hey that's wayy cool! Though I guess it would have been better to be up on foils before going over the shoal :mellow:

Definitely!

...what length is that proa in the video?

7.5m/25' long hull 4m/13' short hull. Been using it for rig/rudder/beam/foil/general experiments for about 15 years.

My first impression is that this is the closest I've seen for using for purposes of the R2Ak, assuming there's plans available(?)

Plans for this boat (Elementarry) are available http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=elementarry-75m25but a dedicated kite boat would be lighter (El is about 110 kgs/240 lbs), plus it needs some accommodation, or at least space to store stuff. And we can build them a lot quicker now using infusion and flat panel moulds than in the strip plank era.

It's interesting it was easier to sail upwind than down,,perhaps a different story if you were flying a larger kite to give sufficient power for downwind

Definitely needs more grunt. I have kited in a Laser (top gps speed 20 knots, 2 up, no hiking, occasionally airborne, huge fun), and going downwind was easier than in the under rigged proa as there was plenty of breeze.

What size was the kite pictured?

That kite is 17.5 sqm, of which maybe 60% is actually pulling the boat. The sail rig was 22 sqm. We have a 30 sqm kite, but it is a bit unwieldy for launching on this boat, but might be ok on the 12m. I am looking for a 24 sqm, which would be about right. We are also experimenting with some schmick new kite designs.

.....my impression is that there was a foil under the windward hull but not the main hull?

Correct. Current (more logical in my view) testing has the kite flying off and lifting the small hull, with the foil under the long one. It is feasible, but not yet fully tested, to fly the whole boat with only one foil in the water. With no controls or curved foils required.

Unfortunately,,I couldn't find more details on the proa above. My search consisted of googling 'kite boat picture', then double clicking on the picture, which usually took me to the boats site,,,except for the proa. All I got was a general 'proa whoa' site ..... https://www.pinteres...sley/proa-whoa/

Ta

......I guess when it comes to the R2Ak,,there's lots of tornado,Hobie 20 hulls around,,,not a bad start., add some kites and away yer go!
Be quicker to start from scratch. Especially if you are planning on rowing or pedalling for any length of time, when low weight and minimal windage are essential. Also makes it quicker with the kites.
I was approached to design a kite boat for the R2AK, but it looks unlikely to happen as the client can't find a sponsor. Pity, as there are only a couple of grand's worth of materials and a couple of weeks work to build the boat. I was going to crew and supply the foil, kites. lines etc.
Kite boating is easy if you use a bar and harness and sit in a boat. Arguably easier than kite boarding. Where ii gets interesting is launching and retrieving big kites offshore, controlling them for more than an hour at a time, night flying, light air, safety, overpowering, etc. We have most of these sorted out, next step is some distance sailing.

 

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...hey that's wayy cool! Though I guess it would have been better to be up on foils before going over the shoal :mellow:

Definitely!

...what length is that proa in the video?

7.5m/25' long hull 4m/13' short hull. Been using it for rig/rudder/beam/foil/general experiments for about 15 years.

My first impression is that this is the closest I've seen for using for purposes of the R2Ak, assuming there's plans available(?)

Plans for this boat (Elementarry) are available http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=elementarry-75m25but a dedicated kite boat would be lighter (El is about 110 kgs/240 lbs), plus it needs some accommodation, or at least space to store stuff. And we can build them a lot quicker now using infusion and flat panel moulds than in the strip plank era.

It's interesting it was easier to sail upwind than down,,perhaps a different story if you were flying a larger kite to give sufficient power for downwind

Definitely needs more grunt. I have kited in a Laser (top gps speed 20 knots, 2 up, no hiking, occasionally airborne, huge fun), and going downwind was easier than in the under rigged proa as there was plenty of breeze.

What size was the kite pictured?

That kite is 17.5 sqm, of which maybe 60% is actually pulling the boat. The sail rig was 22 sqm. We have a 30 sqm kite, but it is a bit unwieldy for launching on this boat, but might be ok on the 12m. I am looking for a 24 sqm, which would be about right. We are also experimenting with some schmick new kite designs.

.....my impression is that there was a foil under the windward hull but not the main hull?

Correct. Current (more logical in my view) testing has the kite flying off and lifting the small hull, with the foil under the long one. It is feasible, but not yet fully tested, to fly the whole boat with only one foil in the water. With no controls or curved foils required.

Unfortunately,,I couldn't find more details on the proa above. My search consisted of googling 'kite boat picture', then double clicking on the picture, which usually took me to the boats site,,,except for the proa. All I got was a general 'proa whoa' site ..... https://www.pinteres...sley/proa-whoa/

Ta

......I guess when it comes to the R2Ak,,there's lots of tornado,Hobie 20 hulls around,,,not a bad start., add some kites and away yer go!
Be quicker to start from scratch. Especially if you are planning on rowing or pedalling for any length of time, when low weight and minimal windage are essential. Also makes it quicker with the kites.
I was approached to design a kite boat for the R2AK, but it looks unlikely to happen as the client can't find a sponsor. Pity, as there are only a couple of grand's worth of materials and a couple of weeks work to build the boat. I was going to crew and supply the foil, kites. lines etc.
Kite boating is easy if you use a bar and harness and sit in a boat. Arguably easier than kite boarding. Where ii gets interesting is launching and retrieving big kites offshore, controlling them for more than an hour at a time, night flying, light air, safety, overpowering, etc. We have most of these sorted out, next step is some distance sailing.

 

 

 

 

Interesting stuff HP,,,I've long daydreamed details of kiteboating,, not necessarily in the Proa vein (nttawwt :)),,

,, but it's great to hear your jockey's feedback to some of my impressions.

 

 

''I have kited in a Laser (top gps speed 20 knots, 2 up, no hiking, occasionally airborne, huge fun.''

My musings lean mostly towards kiting on a laser......you have any setup details or pictures of this??

...any thoughts on singlehanding?...surely there's a way

Any thoughts .ideas, theories on this...maybe I'll get on with the ultimate couch surfer :rolleyes:

 

 

not a lot of 'prior art' for ''power kite on laser sailboat'' :mellow: .....

 

solar-laser.jpg

 

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/kite.htm

kite_boat.jpgfree-shipping-high-quality-3D-sail-boat-

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Hi all,

 

All kiteboat concepts are good idea's. I enjoy seeing them and thinking of how it would be to control them.

 

The most easy accessible one looks like the kitetender400. As I was originally a sailor (and spent tests with a laser, flying dutchman and so on) the kitetender has been developed totally just for kitesailing.

 

Of course a more narrow hull would have been faster, but it had to be easy to control and comfortbale to be in. (hower in short waves at 20 knots of boatspeed, you really want to slow down..)

 

 

couchsurfer

Posted 18 October 2015 - 04:14 AM

......and the kitetender guys,,,nice kit,,good filming,,,but can't make out how they do upwind....

 

Upwind is quite easy with the (pivoting) centreboard. Pivoting for more reasons, like to strat from a beach to go through the breaking waves, or landing on beaches, or downwind courses in which you would not need so much lift.

 

Anybody wants to know more, please do ask.

 

And the kitetender 400 is now commercial available. vacuum sandwich grp reinforced vinylesther.

 

cheers Peter Renssen www.kitetender.nl

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.

 

 

..hey Peter,,,nice to hear you got the kitetender to market.

 

Is the set-up designed only for two,,or does it go with one person?

 

fun to see a fleet of those,,,and a bit of upwind footage....

 

 

 

.....are you the madman in the video? :rolleyes:

 

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..hey Peter,,,nice to hear you got the kitetender to market.

 

Is the set-up designed only for two,,or does it go with one person?

 

fun to see a fleet of those,,,and a bit of upwind footage....

 

 

 

.....are you the madman in the video? :rolleyes:

 

It is a 2 person dinghy, at higher speed (20knots boatspeed!) helming is quite precise.

 

In the first film the helsman is me, in the other you see Tom Court watching the gopro making a selfie.

 

Upwind performance is ok, sharpsailing as with a Laser, only need a race kite (upwind performance) like the North DYNO we use. Can recommand those. from 5 to 18m2 This is noot the projected area!

 

Peter, helmsman at kitetender.nl

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The kite tender is cool as shit. As couchie said a full fleet would be amazing on the start line. Good work.

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As being originally a sailor, the coolest thing is the possible acceleration and quick gybing you can do with a kite.

 

A flying sail, generating so much more power caused by its speed and increasing lift therefore, adds so much more dynamics to sailing.

 

Underestimating that is a big issue. Especially if you use longer lines.

 

Halfwind sailing going from 14 knots of boatspeed to 18 knots, by smooth flying is really cool.

 

 

 

Quite a lot of guys helming have gone MOB while gybing, big fun!

 

Here a link to a video, in which explained to first change position as a helmsman and us the footstrap and one hand to hold, another to helm and steer, just following the kite in fact. The guys in the film are doing quite smoothly by the way.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNndXcOTUAY

 

 

cheers, Peter Renssen

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.

...here's a more grassroots effort....at first the boat looks like a nice R2Ak type effort,,,,but then he climbs on with a conventional kite, sits down in the comfy swivel armchair,,,,,but the kite -really- is conventional,,connected to the sailor's kiteboard harness,,not the boat!!! ...looks to be doing ~6kts in 30 :wacko:

http://www.dailymoti...sport#tab_embed

...some evolution with this next effort,, and some good learning for others going down this route :mellow: ....

http://www.dailymoti...-avec-l-a_sport

 

 

.....and the kitetender guys,,,nice kit,,good filming,,,but can't make out how they do upwind....

 

 

 

 

Hi all,

 

Upwind performance is great. use a race kte like the North Dyno and you will plane upwind too. Not to sharp though.

Chickenloop is attached to the Kitetender of course.

more info? just ask, or watch the website at kitetender.nl or visit youtube channel kitetender. you will see most issues answered.

cheers Peter Renssen

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A light tri would be the best platform.

 

if you can spread the steering lines of the kite ( outside lines) wider than the width of the kite itself, it becomes a much more stable beast.

Meaning it would require far less steering input from the crew to hold a certain spot in the sky. Way better for long distance passages.

 

I would suggest a foil kite (non inflatable)

 

Tricky part would be deployment and retrieval.

Why non-inflatable? Wouldn't the air help keep the kite from getting swamped with a relaunch? And I avoid using my inflatable on land because of the constant threat of debris on the ground ripping open the bladder, my non-inflatable traction kite is more durable, no worry about that on water.

 

I ask because I hope to try out a kite with one of my kayaks (with sponsons) sometime this fall if I can get my skill up, but I assumed that the traction kite was the wrong kite for that.

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