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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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DDW

Looking forward to the invention of cleats in Canada

236 posts in this topic

This technology - universally used in the rest of the civilized world - has not made it to Canada. Instead the docks have a rough board bolted down to the edge of the dock. Very sharp dividing line as the US/Canada border. This is not unique to BC, the same was true in Atlantic Canada.

 

The board is hard to tie to, hard to tighten dock lines, hard on the dock lines, splintery, often caked with guano. There may be hope, on the Victoria customs dock they had both the rough board and cleats.

 

We had a few locals try to convince me that the rough board was better. But I noticed they did not have a rough board bolted to the top of the toe rail on their boats, rather they had cleats.

 

:D:P:rolleyes:

 

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I suspect there are Canadian regulations for docks that require a toe rail and that's the easiest way to do it. Other ways exist.

 

winter%252520harbour.jpg

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Well, this is common just a little bit south in Maine as well, as are posts instead of cleats. When you first encounter them and realize that most docks are set up this way, the reaction is basically what you posted. I for one have come to favor this arrangement over cleats in general, as it does work well, is more versatile than cleats, and allows for more lines to be tied to the dock without interfering. There is also the fact that it's cheaper, which is why I suspect Mainers and Canadians have opted for this.

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I really prefer cleats to these rails (and we have them on some docks here as well). With a cleat I can drop a spring line over it as I enter a slip or come alongside a dock -- quick and easy. Also, I can tie to a cleat quicker, neater, and more securely. Tying to the bull rail (thanks for the term, Autonomous) is usually slower and sloppier. When leaving the dock it's much easier to slip the lines off the cleats as we go, but when slipping a line from the wooden bull rail it often gets snagged.

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Cleats are probably preferable, but even here in Washington State, a lot of docks use rails. I can't remember the state parks having cleats and if I remember right, a number of the city docks also have rails. In 45 years of cruising around the PNW, it was just a fact of life. I guess I grew up with it, so I did not have anything to get over or get use to.

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I really prefer cleats to these rails (and we have them on some docks here as well). With a cleat I can drop a spring line over it as I enter a slip or come alongside a dock -- quick and easy. Also, I can tie to a cleat quicker, neater, and more securely. Tying to the bull rail (thanks for the term, Autonomous) is usually slower and sloppier. When leaving the dock it's much easier to slip the lines off the cleats as we go, but when slipping a line from the wooden bull rail it often gets snagged.

 

^^^ These are the problems in a nutshell.

 

I have seen them on dinghy docks more widespread, and yes a few in Maine. Still like cleats though.

 

But if pressed, I will take the bull rails over the outside pilings that you find in the Chesapeake and south. Those are simply evil, unless you have an industrial strength rub rail.

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They suck and appear to be slowly disappearing in favour of cleats. I don't know if they are worse than rings but it's a near run thing. I always thought it was done because a hunk of untreated timber is cheaper than cleats. You can't lasso them with a spring when docking and you have to thread your dock lines under them. They are a tripping hazard as well - really terrible idea in every way.

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They suck and appear to be slowly disappearing in favour of cleats. I don't know if they are worse than rings but it's a near run thing. I always thought it was done because a hunk of untreated timber is cheaper than cleats. You can't lasso them with a spring when docking and you have to thread your dock lines under them. They are a tripping hazard as well - really terrible idea in every way.

 

Much easier to get with a thrown grappling hook though. We all carry those, right?

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They suck and appear to be slowly disappearing in favour of cleats. I don't know if they are worse than rings but it's a near run thing. I always thought it was done because a hunk of untreated timber is cheaper than cleats. You can't lasso them with a spring when docking and you have to thread your dock lines under them. They are a tripping hazard as well - really terrible idea in every way.

 

Much easier to get with a thrown grappling hook though. We all carry those, right?

 

 

You don't have a cannon to fire yours and must throw it instead? Weird.

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They suck and appear to be slowly disappearing in favour of cleats. I don't know if they are worse than rings but it's a near run thing. I always thought it was done because a hunk of untreated timber is cheaper than cleats. You can't lasso them with a spring when docking and you have to thread your dock lines under them. They are a tripping hazard as well - really terrible idea in every way.

 

Much easier to get with a thrown grappling hook though. We all carry those, right?

 

 

You don't have a cannon to fire yours and must throw it instead? Weird.

 

 

We try and get closer than 10 feet on the first attempt. A cannon would be good if you are docking from across the harbour or something.

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cleats in slips. more fixed tie up point

 

rails on fingers. allows the marina to cram more boats in and not worry about tie ups.

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That is ugly...very very very ugly.

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A single fender in a situation like that? That rash is well deserved.

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They suck and appear to be slowly disappearing in favour of cleats. I don't know if they are worse than rings but it's a near run thing. I always thought it was done because a hunk of untreated timber is cheaper than cleats. You can't lasso them with a spring when docking and you have to thread your dock lines under them. They are a tripping hazard as well - really terrible idea in every way.

 

Much easier to get with a thrown grappling hook though. We all carry those, right?

 

I actually do have one - it was a freebee at a boat show or something - a single claw gimmick that I never threw out (pun intended).

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It could be much worse:

 

 

image_zpseiu14oit.jpeg

 

image_zpsmnuxyydg.jpeg

I'm guessing fresh water but...

Where in the hell, who in the hell?

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I rented a city dock for the long weekend recently to sail Lake Hefner in OKC. With diminishing winds this time of year, I thought a trip to the notoriously windy lake was in order. I've read that it's in the top 10 inland racing venues in the country. It says so on the OKC boat club website. I made the drive beforehand to scout the dock and launch facilities. This was the nightmare I found. I sat for an hour considering putting my boat in there, then changed my mind. Fully half of the boats had serious wounds from the facilities. Those pointed steel stairs at the front were scary, not to mention the fingers and cleats.

It turns out the docks were built as part of the WPA in the 30s. I guess I'm the only one within a few hundred miles that wasn't in on the joke.

To be fair, the boat club across the lake is civilized, I later found out.

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I rented a city dock for the long weekend recently to sail Lake Hefner in OKC. With diminishing winds this time of year, I thought a trip to the notoriously windy lake was in order. I've read that it's in the top 10 inland racing venues in the country. It says so on the OKC boat club website. I made the drive beforehand to scout the dock and launch facilities. This was the nightmare I found. I sat for an hour considering putting my boat in there, then changed my mind. Fully half of the boats had serious wounds from the facilities. Those pointed steel stairs at the front were scary, not to mention the fingers and cleats.

It turns out the docks were built as part of the WPA in the 30s. I guess I'm the only one within a few hundred miles that wasn't in on the joke.

To be fair, the boat club across the lake is civilized, I later found out.

 

 

The shame is it wouldn't take a lot of work to deck over them and add proper cleats...stupid.

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I rented a city dock for the long weekend recently to sail Lake Hefner in OKC. With diminishing winds this time of year, I thought a trip to the notoriously windy lake was in order. I've read that it's in the top 10 inland racing venues in the country. It says so on the OKC boat club website. I made the drive beforehand to scout the dock and launch facilities. This was the nightmare I found. I sat for an hour considering putting my boat in there, then changed my mind. Fully half of the boats had serious wounds from the facilities. Those pointed steel stairs at the front were scary, not to mention the fingers and cleats.

It turns out the docks were built as part of the WPA in the 30s. I guess I'm the only one within a few hundred miles that wasn't in on the joke.

To be fair, the boat club across the lake is civilized, I later found out.

 

Those things are nasty, no doubt but putting out more than one or two poorly positioned fenders (that's all I see in those pics) would go a long way to reducing the scarring.

 

Shit, I put out at least three even when the dock has bump stripping on wood.

 

No-one on that lake ever heard of fender boards?

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Chum, on 08 Oct 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:snapback.png

I rented a city dock for the long weekend recently to sail Lake Hefner in OKC. With diminishing winds this time of year, I thought a trip to the notoriously windy lake was in order. I've read that it's in the top 10 inland racing venues in the country. It says so on the OKC boat club website. I made the drive beforehand to scout the dock and launch facilities. This was the nightmare I found. I sat for an hour considering putting my boat in there, then changed my mind. Fully half of the boats had serious wounds from the facilities. Those pointed steel stairs at the front were scary, not to mention the fingers and cleats.
It turns out the docks were built as part of the WPA in the 30s. I guess I'm the only one within a few hundred miles that wasn't in on the joke.
To be fair, the boat club across the lake is civilized, I later found out.

Sure our docks aren't pretty, but at least they are free. Right? Or did they offer to pay you to use them?

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I suspect there are Canadian regulations for docks that require a toe rail and that's the easiest way to do it. Other ways exist.

 

winter%2520harbour.jpg

That is nothing but an expensive trip hazard. Why is such a thing permitted, never mind encouraged?

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Nope, I paid 140 an hour to use it. That's a 2 week short term rental, but actual use amounted 1 one hour of dangling my feet over the finger wondering how I got here...

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I suspect there are Canadian regulations for docks that require a toe rail and that's the easiest way to do it. Other ways exist.

 

winter%2520harbour.jpg

That is nothing but an expensive trip hazard. Why is such a thing permitted, never mind encouraged?

 

 

But...but...but... we painted them yellow so you wouldn't trip.

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I suspect there are Canadian regulations for docks that require a toe rail and that's the easiest way to do it. Other ways exist.

 

winter%2520harbour.jpg

That is nothing but an expensive trip hazard. Why is such a thing permitted, never mind encouraged?

 

 

But...but...but... we painted them yellow so you wouldn't trip.

 

 

It's to prevent people in wheelchairs and handbaskets from driving over the edge.

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it's so float plane pilots can make one attempt at a solid landing.

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I suspect there are Canadian regulations for docks that require a toe rail and that's the easiest way to do it. Other ways exist.

 

winter%2520harbour.jpg

That is nothing but an expensive trip hazard. Why is such a thing permitted, never mind encouraged?

 

Oh, pufft, stop your whinging. They're fine.

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It could be much worse:image_zpseiu14oit.jpegimage_zpsmnuxyydg.jpeg

 

I'm guessing fresh water but...

Where in the hell, who in the hell?

Submarine pens

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What a bunch of babies, get over it. Tie your boat up however you need to. If this keeps you away from cruising in the NW, BC or Alaska you probably wouldn't enjoy it anyhow. It rains here too.

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What a bunch of babies, get over it. Tie your boat up however you need to. If this keeps you away from cruising in the NW, BC or Alaska you probably wouldn't enjoy it anyhow. It rains here too.

For a new guy you're pretty cheeky. I like it.

Oh, and not only does it rain here, it gets dark at night too.

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What a bunch of babies, get over it. Tie your boat up however you need to. If this keeps you away from cruising in the NW, BC or Alaska you probably wouldn't enjoy it anyhow. It rains here too.

For a new guy you're pretty cheeky. I like it.

Oh, and not only does it rain here, it gets dark at night too.

 

Don't forget all the rocks and the high speed current in the passes.

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What a bunch of babies, get over it. Tie your boat up however you need to. If this keeps you away from cruising in the NW, BC or Alaska you probably wouldn't enjoy it anyhow. It rains here too.

 

OK, while I'm at it, I don't like the rain either. Can't do anything about that but cleats have been used in civilized countries for several hundred years.

 

And tits are required.

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What a bunch of babies, get over it. Tie your boat up however you need to. If this keeps you away from cruising in the NW, BC or Alaska you probably wouldn't enjoy it anyhow. It rains here too.

 

OK, while I'm at it, I don't like the rain either. Can't do anything about that but cleats have been used in civilized countries for several hundred years.

 

And tits are required.

 

 

I agree. I'll take tits on the docks and the cleats. Always in pairs. No odd numbers. Bad luck.

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What a bunch of babies, get over it. Tie your boat up however you need to. If this keeps you away from cruising in the NW, BC or Alaska you probably wouldn't enjoy it anyhow. It rains here too.

OK, while I'm at it, I don't like the rain either. Can't do anything about that but cleats have been used in civilized countries for several hundred years.

 

And tits are required.

I agree. I'll take tits on the docks and the cleats. Always in pairs. No odd numbers. Bad luck.

I'll take one tit over none any day.

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It could be much worse:

 

 

image_zpseiu14oit.jpeg

 

image_zpsmnuxyydg.jpeg

 

Can you imagine the lawsuit if someone tripped and fell on that? Seriously. Holy shit. Where is this so I NEVER make the mistake of going there. I wonder what the story behind the ripped off stantions is.

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It could be much worse:

 

 

image_zpseiu14oit.jpeg

 

image_zpsmnuxyydg.jpeg

 

Can you imagine the lawsuit if someone tripped and fell on that? Seriously. Holy shit. Where is this so I NEVER make the mistake of going there. I wonder what the story behind the ripped off stantions is.

 

 

Now there's a picture. Your crew is trying to fend off the concrete monster, loses their balance, falls backwards over the lifelines and lands right onto those exposed rebars. Ouch. Forked for sure. Like one of those TV dramas where the guy is found stuck on a spiked iron fence. This exists in the land of lawsuits?

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It could be much worse:

 

 

image_zpseiu14oit.jpeg

 

image_zpsmnuxyydg.jpeg

 

Can you imagine the lawsuit if someone tripped and fell on that? Seriously. Holy shit. Where is this so I NEVER make the mistake of going there. I wonder what the story behind the ripped off stantions is.

 

 

Now there's a picture. Your crew is trying to fend off the concrete monster, loses their balance, falls backwards over the lifelines and lands right onto those exposed rebars. Ouch. Forked for sure. Like one of those TV dramas where the guy is found stuck on a spiked iron fence. This exists in the land of lawsuits?

 

 

Here is a view of the same marina during a drought. It seem to be a special kind of hell for boats...

 

 

Oh, and they occasionally have tornadoes there too. These photos are from 1998:

 

okc1-12.jpg

 

okc1-13.jpg

 

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=events-19980613

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Yikes! Boat hell is a good description.

 

Fixed.

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Great way to work on your bottom.

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Let go the bow line...gently!

 

image_zpsp2i5rrjv.jpeg

Somebody's boat has decent backing plates on their deck cleats...

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Man, this one location is serving up some incredible images. Sad for the locals though. Good bet a few haven't paid rent in a while either.

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It's full now, as the pics above show. People have apparently tried to use all manner of stuff to (fix) the docks, from boards to carpet draped over the fingers. It a hard scrabble life, for boats especially.

The boat above appears to have been sentenced to hang by the cleats until dead.

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It's full now, as the pics above show. People have apparently tried to use all manner of stuff to (fix) the docks, from boards to carpet draped over the fingers. It a hard scrabble life, for boats especially.

The boat above appears to have been sentenced to hang by the cleats until dead.

 

It appears it can be quite nice there at time as well:

 

 

There is even a charter operator, using a Hunter 260 (do I detect an opportunity to tie two threads together here?)

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it's so float plane pilots can make one attempt at a solid landing.

One attempt is all I've ever needed.

I prefer a cleat though.

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Am I to assume you have never tried our bollards, half bull rail, half cleat, Mr DDW ? :)

site%20elissa%201%20bollard.jpg

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I would be happy with bollards, though I have rarely seen them on a dock (for pleasure craft). We tied to them - big ones - occasionally on the Welland and St Lawrence back east. Have not seen any in the PNW. Far better than a bull rail, perhaps not as convenient as a cleat.

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Let go the bow line...gently!

 

image_zpsp2i5rrjv.jpeg

 

 

Fricking awesome wing keel.

Sonnabitch can fly upwind !

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Let go the bow line...gently!

 

image_zpsp2i5rrjv.jpeg

Somebody's boat has decent backing plates on their deck cleats...

 

 

I'm still not going under it.

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Google 'round turn and two half hitches', then learn some other knots.

 

Just pull a bight through and do a quick clove hitch or two half hitches. If you're real good you can use the end of the rail like half a cleat.

 

Rails are fine. But rings... ugh.

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Yeah, yeah, the metal rails aren't too bad although I've never used one, but the wooden ones totally suck. Period. They are usually nothing but a good way to catch a splinter. The bad outweighs the good of the damn things and the OP didn't say he couldn't figure out how to use them.

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For singlehanding, the midship boat cleat is the one I tie first and the bull rail allows me to get that fastened in seconds on a windy dock at any position. I tie the stern similar and then spring from there. Cleats are a pain if the boat sizes are mixed up or if you have to compromise the tie angle, or even having to share a small cleat with a spring line.

 

The bull rail affords some spring and is more, "tie your horse up, partner", western...

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It is much faster to hitch to a cleat in any and all conditions. If you are good at it you can lasso one on the way by. Now, if the wharfinger (that's a new term I learned up here) didn't put any cleats, or not enough, or tiny ones, or in bad locations then of course something else could conceivably be better, if less than ideal. Bull rails can be badly done too.

 

I've tied to maybe a hundred bull rails by now and I cannot see a single advantage in them.

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I've tied to maybe a hundred bull rails by now and I cannot see a single advantage in them.

They work well for crowded dingy docks.

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They FINALLY put some cleats on the dock down at the state park, and somebody stole them :angry:

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I've tied to maybe a hundred bull rails by now and I cannot see a single advantage in them.

They work well for crowded dingy docks.

 

 

Yes, I'll concede that one.

 

So they might work well if you are mooring your boat bow in about 4 deep banging against all the others.

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Yeah, yeah, the metal rails aren't too bad although I've never used one, but the wooden ones totally suck. Period. They are usually nothing but a good way to catch a splinter. The bad outweighs the good of the damn things and the OP didn't say he couldn't figure out how to use them.

 

also.., with the wooden rails.., i've seen some that aren't attached to the dock all that well - maybe they were at one time, or maybe they weren't..

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Yeah, yeah, the metal rails aren't too bad although I've never used one, but the wooden ones totally suck. Period. They are usually nothing but a good way to catch a splinter. The bad outweighs the good of the damn things and the OP didn't say he couldn't figure out how to use them.

 

also.., with the wooden rails.., i've seen some that aren't attached to the dock all that well - maybe they were at one time, or maybe they weren't..

 

And even if they were, they will be weaker in the middle than at the ends. And there is nothing to keep a line tied in the middle from slipping along the rail. Cleats are clearly the superior solution.

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And there is nothing to keep a line tied in the middle from slipping along the rail.

I think that's what the splinters are for.

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And there is nothing to keep a line tied in the middle from slipping along the rail.

I think that's what the splinters are for.

 

 

Zackly. I do recall spearing myself with more than one of those when coiling dock lines. Fir is the worst.

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If you want to keep it from slipping, you have to tie at one of the blocks holding it off the pier. Which are spaced about the same as cleats would be. Held with one bolt rather than two like a cleat. Which just makes one wonder why.

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If you want to keep it from slipping, you have to tie at one of the blocks holding it off the pier. Which are spaced about the same as cleats would be. Held with one bolt rather than two like a cleat. Which just makes one wonder why.

 

It's cheaper, probably. Even the most high-class accommodations in Victoria have bull rail with single bolts on the blocks. Apparently friction works well enough, in mysterious ways.

 

DSC_8011.JPG

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Maybe at the next inter-governmental meeting, some foreign govt can present the Canadian PM with a cleat. "New technology we'd like to share with the Canadian people, Prime Minister"

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Maybe at the next inter-governmental meeting, some foreign govt can present the Canadian PM with a cleat. "New technology we'd like to share with the Canadian people, Prime Minister"

 

There is our federal election soon, we could vote out the current "non cleat' government. :o

A socialist cleat programme is now an election issue.

Cleats for Canada !

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If you want to keep it from slipping, you have to tie at one of the blocks holding it off the pier. Which are spaced about the same as cleats would be. Held with one bolt rather than two like a cleat. Which just makes one wonder why.

 

It's cheaper, probably. Even the most high-class accommodations in Victoria have bull rail with single bolts on the blocks. Apparently friction works well enough, in mysterious ways.

 

DSC_8011.JPG

 

 

That looks like it was a very nice evening.

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Maybe at the next inter-governmental meeting, some foreign govt can present the Canadian PM with a cleat. "New technology we'd like to share with the Canadian people, Prime Minister"

 

There is our federal election soon, we could vote out the current "non cleat' government. :o

A socialist cleat programme is now an election issue.

Cleats for Canada !

 

With a slogan like that, those idiots would buy a bunch of soccer boots

 

 

If you want to keep it from slipping, you have to tie at one of the blocks holding it off the pier. Which are spaced about the same as cleats would be. Held with one bolt rather than two like a cleat. Which just makes one wonder why.

 

It's cheaper, probably. Even the most high-class accommodations in Victoria have bull rail with single bolts on the blocks. Apparently friction works well enough, in mysterious ways.

 

DSC_8011.JPG

 

 

That looks like it was a very nice evening.

 

 

They get a lot of those in Victoria.

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Back in the land of bullrails. Just to bump the thread up in the impossibly unlikely chance that I will influence a whole nation to Find the Truth.

 

I cannot find a single reason to prefer bullrails over cleats, not one. So far I have come across only one dock with bullrails that was convenient to use - because it had cleats mounted on top of the bullrails.

 

Yeah I know, bitch, bitch, bitch. But it's raining today in Pender harbor.

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Back in the land of bullrails. Just to bump the thread up in the impossibly unlikely chance that I will influence a whole nation to Find the Truth.

 

I cannot find a single reason to prefer bullrails over cleats, not one. So far I have come across only one dock with bullrails that was convenient to use - because it had cleats mounted on top of the bullrails.

 

Yeah I know, bitch, bitch, bitch. But it's raining today in Pender harbor.

 

Pender Harbour. You're in the land of excess "u's".

 

Where in Pender Harbour? We have spent quite a few nights there, lately prefer anchoring in Gerrans Bay, much quieter there.

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Back in the land of bullrails. Just to bump the thread up in the impossibly unlikely chance that I will influence a whole nation to Find the Truth.

 

I cannot find a single reason to prefer bullrails over cleats, not one. So far I have come across only one dock with bullrails that was convenient to use - because it had cleats mounted on top of the bullrails.

 

Yeah I know, bitch, bitch, bitch. But it's raining today in Pender harbor.

Those last couple of real nice days in the PNW?......that was our sumer.

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Sun is beginning to come out, but rain is predicted on and off for the next week. You would think it was the PNW.

 

Last few days were too hot. I'm tough to please, aren't I? But we did have about half an hour of decent sailing yesterday coming out of Nanaimo before the wind died. Whiskey Golf - call on channel 10, no response. Listen to marine weather they say it is open. But other calls suggest not. Call Victoria Coast guard, they say listen to weather or call CH10. But also say it is closed west of 124 so we skirt east. Many people complaining about listening to weather thinking it is open and are now in the middle of the closed section, and no answer on CH10. V.C.G. says we'll give you a number to call (don't call us). In Texas they call that a "goat rodeo". :)

 

We are sitting at Madeira Park with the aging hippies and fishermen. Only because it is an easy walk to the espresso bar and I am feeling too lazy to get the on board espresso machine hot. Next time I will try Gerrens Bay. Two young Irish guys here in a 19' open sloop are touring the PNW and then planning on heading down to California. Good to be young and indestructible! We are heading up to P. Louisa to see if it looks different in the rain in June vs. the rain in Sept. But I imagine it looks pretty good anytime. Then on towards the Broughtons. When I come back I am beginning to wonder if I should to around the outside?

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Going down the west coast of the island would be my choice. Our trip down was fabulous.

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Port McNeil is a great re-provisioning stop from the Broughtons. From there, going around the west side of the island is easy. After Port Hardy, you'll be self-sufficient. I think the west side of Vancouver Island takes longer than the inside since there are so many places to check out. But I can't wait to get out there again.

 

Next year (sigh). This year will be a Maine / ICW year. Okay and I'll enjoy it but my heart is in BC...

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How long is a quick trip down the outside? I don't mean sail straight through, but not dawdling either. We would have to do this in August in about 2-3 weeks. Kind of looks like 10-14 days it you keep moving every day and the weather cooperates.

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August=Fogust. That may affect your travel.

The Van Isle 360 boats do it in far less than a week. We spent five weeks doing it and felt a bit rushed towards the end, when we could have easily spent another month in Barkley Sound.

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Bull rails are fine, once you learn to tie a proper knot. As far as the trip hazard, in the words of Arthur Ransome "If not duffers won't drown, if duffers better drowned",

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We got cleats in Canada.

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Sorry for the thread drift, eh.

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Bull rails are fine, once you learn to tie a proper knot. As far as the trip hazard, in the words of Arthur Ransome "If not duffers won't drown, if duffers better drowned",

We're not disputing that bull rails can be used to securely tie a boat. Most of us know how to tie a proper knot. You can drop an eye or a loop over a cleat as you come alongside the dock, while you can't do this with a bull rail. Splinters suck.

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You can tie a concrete boat to a log. That doesn't mean it's the best thing to use, for either.

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Anybody here ever use the docks belonging to Antigua Yacht Club in Falmouth Harbor?

 

No cleats or bull rails, but they do have wire loops about 1 foot down the sides of the docks.

 

Fortunately the dock boys are brilliant but need them for sure.

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I can. At the dinghy dock with 4 cleats and 40 dinghies, it can be quite the chore to untie 5 or 10 dinghies to get to your dockline and then tie them back up.

Back in the land of bullrails. Just to bump the thread up in the impossibly unlikely chance that I will influence a whole nation to Find the Truth.

 

I cannot find a single reason to prefer bullrails over cleats, not one. So far I have come across only one dock with bullrails that was convenient to use - because it had cleats mounted on top of the bullrails.

 

Yeah I know, bitch, bitch, bitch. But it's raining today in Pender harbor.

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Not denying the usefulness of cleats, it looks like I will be the sole defender of the rail !!

Having sailed in this region for 25+ yrs, and sailed around Vancouver Island five times, I think I have docked at most popular docks, and quite a few remote ones. I have been lucky I suppose, to have never been splinter bitten by the wooden rails, and like the round metal rails seen at many commercial docks, gas docks, and government docks. In docking, I can't recall wishing there was a cleat to lassoo because I came in fast enough that I needed to use it to brake.

 

Assuming that most people approach the dock slow enough that you can step off onto the dock calmly with a line in hand, the rails give a lot of flexibility in where you position yourself. On this coast in particular, there are lots of places that harbour commercial fishing boats of varying sizes, in addition to the apparently rail-challenged leisure boat users :P

 

The rails offer flexibility to tie up where there's an opening, flexibility to tie up without getting in amongst another boat's lines, and the freedom to leave without messing with other boaters' lines that invariably trap yours when you're limited to sharing cleats. When we've had to raft up as we frequently do during the Van Isle Race, or other events with many competitors, the rails have really demonstrated these positive aspects.

 

So in the immortal words of Ronnie Johns, HTFU everyone LOL

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At a dinghy dock, they have some merit. At a real dock, they simply do not. Yeah, I guess if the owner skimped and only put a couple of cleats on the pier, then having some place to tie is better than no place. With a proper distribution of dock cleats, there is never a problem adjusting your position to where you want. In addition, the lines are preserved, there are no splinters, you can actually tighten the lines when needed, lasso them when needed (single handed this can be important), or quickly get a line around the cleat to snub.

 

There is a reason the rest of the civilized world uses cleats. If all I had was wood, I would whittle out some cleats to put on the pier.

 

HTFU? It's kind of like saying HTFU and use parceled galvanized wire rigging, baggy wrinkle, and flax sails. Are you so soft you have to use synthetic lines and rod rigging? Pussy!.... :P:P:P

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Back in the land of bullrails. Just to bump the thread up in the impossibly unlikely chance that I will influence a whole nation to Find the Truth.

 

I cannot find a single reason to prefer bullrails over cleats, not one. So far I have come across only one dock with bullrails that was convenient to use - because it had cleats mounted on top of the bullrails.

 

Yeah I know, bitch, bitch, bitch. But it's raining today in Pender harbor.

 

Pender Harbour. You're in the land of excess "u's".

 

Where in Pender Harbour? We have spent quite a few nights there, lately prefer anchoring in Gerrans Bay, much quieter there.

 

 

 

Man, you're living my dream...

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Yes. Brent, boats should have bull rails instead of those ridiculous cleats. Because Smackdaddy.

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Welded bull rails Valis.

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I wish the dock at our local public ramp had a rail to tie up to. People keep stealing the cleats... <_<

 

Incidentally, I coached a week long racing clinic for the junior program at the Oklahoma City Boat Club on Lake Hefner years ago and the sailing there is remarkably good. There is also some lively under the table betting on the Wednesday night sailboat races at one of the on the water restaurant's bar.

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Never mind bull rails, on the Canadian east coast, fishing boats favour mooring staples over cleats on deck. Apparently the staples do not foul gear as cleats do. Think I will stick with cleats on my sailboat...

 

https://www.mercersmarine.com/products/stainless-mooring-staples-1780.html

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On the West Coast we call those "handles".

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Never mind bull rails, on the Canadian east coast, fishing boats favour mooring staples over cleats on deck. Apparently the staples do not foul gear as cleats do. Think I will stick with cleats on my sailboat...

 

https://www.mercersmarine.com/products/stainless-mooring-staples-1780.html

 

 

I went all the way through the Canadian maritimes and never saw those. Only bull rails. Usually painted yellow back east, at least where you are supposed to tie up.

 

We're now up in the Cordero Channel now, still no cleats. With the single exception of Port of Sidney Marina. The one dock (still in the US, on Orcas Is) that had cleats on top of the bull rails, every single line on the dock was tied to the cleats.

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