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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
DDW

Looking forward to the invention of cleats in Canada

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2 hours ago, DDW said:

Sometime yes. It requires that you jump off your boat, loop the entire 50' or so around the splintery bull rail, jump back on your boat, thread it through the closed chock, and cleat it. 4 times for 4 dock lines. And assumes that there is something to stop the loop from sliding down the dock (on springs). And if you decide (or the wharfinger decides) that you need to move forward 20 ft, jump on the boat, uncleat the line, jump off the boat and unloop the entire 50' or so around the splintery bull rail, loop the entire 50' around a new piece of splintery bull rail, jump back on the boat and thread it through the chock, then cleat it. 4 times. With cleats on the dock this is much easier, as is EVERYTHING with cleats on the dock.

Now some bull rail fans here (and there aren't many in the world) say you can use the end of the bull rail like the end of a cleat. The point is you can use both ends of a cleat like the end of a cleat. I can improve the bull rails throughout Canada by taking a sawzall and making the bull rails into a series of fat wooden cleats, by sawing the rail open 6" on either side of every support. But how much better would it be to just install cleats, like the rest of the civilized world? 

Cast steel cleats cost something like $1000/ton. I'm not sure what the cost is in building a marina, but I damn well know that the cost of cleats are in the round off error. 

But here is an interesting fact - in Halifax what do all the government docks on the waterfront have? Cleats, not bull rails. Anomaly on the Pilot boat dock in Halifax. Note the cleats and absence of bull rails:Halifax.thumb.jpg.46813c9255706ad386d6975e10c39420.jpg

 

I will say this, you're making great time on this trip.

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Not the Far East. The Near East.

shediac-lobster-tourist-trap-hopewell-ca

I been there too. They had cleats on the dock.

lobster.jpg.c40ed083667b00f995f0fdfd35468d4a.jpg

26 minutes ago, IStream said:

I will say this, you're making great time on this trip.

It only takes a time machine....

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I was waiting for you to play the Shediac card. That's because they turned all their forests into barren lands and they would have to import bull rails from BC or Quebec or the USA and none of those are acceptable.

So they use Chinese cleats. I think that's disrespectful, if not downright unconstitutional. They should have to use bull rails too. Fuck their delicate unsplintered hands.

 

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I had no idea there was an issue, thought my life was good till now. 

When wearing my wireless headphones while making popcorn in the microwave I get a background hiss. 

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11 hours ago, DDW said:

Sometime yes. It requires that you jump off your boat, loop the entire 50' or so around the splintery bull rail, jump back on your boat, thread it through the closed chock, and cleat it. 4 times for 4 dock lines. And assumes that there is something to stop the loop from sliding down the dock (on springs). And if you decide (or the wharfinger decides) that you need to move forward 20 ft, jump on the boat, uncleat the line, jump off the boat and unloop the entire 50' or so around the splintery bull rail, loop the entire 50' around a new piece of splintery bull rail, jump back on the boat and thread it through the chock, then cleat it. 4 times. With cleats on the dock this is much easier, as is EVERYTHING with cleats on the dock.

Now some bull rail fans here (and there aren't many in the world) say you can use the end of the bull rail like the end of a cleat. The point is you can use both ends of a cleat like the end of a cleat. I can improve the bull rails throughout Canada by taking a sawzall and making the bull rails into a series of fat wooden cleats, by sawing the rail open 6" on either side of every support. But how much better would it be to just install cleats, like the rest of the civilized world? 

Cast steel cleats cost something like $1000/ton. I'm not sure what the cost is in building a marina, but I damn well know that the cost of cleats are in the round off error. 

But here is an interesting fact - in Halifax what do all the government docks on the waterfront have? Cleats, not bull rails. Anomaly on the Pilot boat dock in Halifax. Note the cleats and absence of bull rails:Halifax.thumb.jpg.46813c9255706ad386d6975e10c39420.jpg

 

Love your handsome and clever boat, DDW. I am not so interested in how you tie up but what do you do with the main and mizzen sails when you fly an asym?

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8 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I was waiting for you to play the Shediac card. That's because they turned all their forests into barren lands and they would have to import bull rails from BC or Quebec or the USA and none of those are acceptable.

So they use Chinese cleats. I think that's disrespectful, if not downright unconstitutional. They should have to use bull rails too. Fuck their delicate unsplintered hands.

 

We steal the cleats off the British Colombia docks while we are out there visiting, and bring them home to use and for our visitors... 

I'm off for my manicure.

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12 hours ago, DDW said:

I been there too. They had cleats on the dock.

lobster.jpg.c40ed083667b00f995f0fdfd35468d4a.jpg

It only takes a time machine....

;)

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Those forest fires took out our bull rail supply for the next 5 years, I'm  afraid.:(

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24 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Not to worry, they're making them out of galvanized pipe now.

Great, zinc shards instead of fir splinters.

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42 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

And they might even be a greater tripping hazard.

They are a real slipping hazard when they're wet.

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10 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

They are a real slipping hazard when they're wet.

So, 9 months of the year here...:(

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On 2017-08-11 at 9:29 PM, DDW said:

Sometime yes. It requires that you jump off your boat, loop the entire 50' or so around the splintery bull rail, jump back on your boat, thread it through the closed chock, and cleat it. 4 times for 4 dock lines. And assumes that there is something to stop the loop from sliding down the dock (on springs). And if you decide (or the wharfinger decides) that you need to move forward 20 ft, jump on the boat, uncleat the line, jump off the boat and unloop the entire 50' or so around the splintery bull rail, loop the entire 50' around a new piece of splintery bull rail, jump back on the boat and thread it through the chock, then cleat it. 4 times. With cleats on the dock this is much easier, as is EVERYTHING with cleats on the dock.

Now some bull rail fans here (and there aren't many in the world) say you can use the end of the bull rail like the end of a cleat. The point is you can use both ends of a cleat like the end of a cleat. I can improve the bull rails throughout Canada by taking a sawzall and making the bull rails into a series of fat wooden cleats, by sawing the rail open 6" on either side of every support. But how much better would it be to just install cleats, like the rest of the civilized world? 

Cast steel cleats cost something like $1000/ton. I'm not sure what the cost is in building a marina, but I damn well know that the cost of cleats are in the round off error. 

But here is an interesting fact - in Halifax what do all the government docks on the waterfront have? Cleats, not bull rails. Anomaly on the Pilot boat dock in Halifax. Note the cleats and absence of bull rails:Halifax.thumb.jpg.46813c9255706ad386d6975e10c39420.jpg

 

When did you take this pic, DDW?

 

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On 8/11/2017 at 9:15 PM, Ishmael said:

So they use Chinese cleats. I think that's disrespectful, if not downright unconstitutional. 

 

Everybody uses Chinese cleats. You would need to cast them yourself otherwise....

On 8/11/2017 at 10:30 PM, cje said:

I had no idea there was an issue, thought my life was good till now. 

When wearing my wireless headphones while making popcorn in the microwave I get a background hiss. 

2.4 GHz is 2.4 GHz. I gotta lotta bitches but bull rails are right up there.

On 8/12/2017 at 4:50 AM, Grey Dawn said:

Love your handsome and clever boat, DDW. I am not so interested in how you tie up but what do you do with the main and mizzen sails when you fly an asym?

The asym is only really useful in about 4 - 12 TWS, and 90 - 140 TWA. I continue to fly main and mizzen. It can be flown wing and wing with the main (pick either side for the mizzen) but it's tricky business to keep it quiet. We have a mizzen staysail too. For the asym the sweet spot seems to be around 5-6 knots from 140 true. The boat will then do 6-7 knots at 65 apparent. At 10-12  or more true wind and we go pretty good dead downwind anyway since the main can be squared off 90 degrees. 

On 8/12/2017 at 8:13 PM, Autonomous said:

Not to worry, they're making them out of galvanized pipe now.

They have galvanized ones on the nice new docks at Toba Wilderness marina. Much better than splinter wood (as they are not yet rusty). The ones on the breakwater at Lund, made from rusty water pipe with a lot of sharp edges weren't so good. 

On 8/13/2017 at 2:21 PM, groundhog said:

When did you take this pic, DDW?

 

That would have been 2010 when we went out the St. Lawrence to Maine via Newfoundland (where bull rails are ubiquitous). 

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2 hours ago, DDW said:
On 2017-08-13 at 6:21 PM, groundhog said:

When did you take this pic, DDW?

 

That would have been 2010 when we went out the St. Lawrence to Maine via Newfoundland (where bull rails are ubiquitous). 

If it was more recent I would have said to stop by.... next time.

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Perhaps there is some hope. They are replacing all of the finger piers in Union Steamship Marina, Bowen Island. And on those new finger piers are.....cleats. No bull rails. One down, about 3000 to go......

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Seems to be a sticking  point in the  NAFTA talks...

Bull  rails are holding up the softwood lumber agreement proceedings. :unsure:

Gibson's marina has installed dock rings. How cheap is that. 19 ft bayliner cheap.

Here in Secret Cove, cleats are reserved for the gas dock carriage trade only. 

Canada might have to forego cleats as rings have less carbon footprint. ;)

 

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On 8/5/2017 at 8:40 PM, DDW said:

Still looking forward to the invention of cleats in Canada.

Here is a line after a particularly nasty bull rail. Long lengths of all four dock lines looked like this. We have had to handle them with gloves for the last week. It would take hours to pick them out. 

 

Splinters.jpg

Sorry, but you clearly have no idea how to tie to bull rails!  Sitting in Port McNeill after spending 4 months touring BC & Alaska and now heading south.  I've had precisely zero splinters in my lines or hands, but we do anchor out 90% of the time.  However, we also don't let our moorings "chafe" on the bull rail either!

It's not rocket science.  Get to the dock, lay the boat along side, calmly step off and secure the boat.  If the conditions are shit and you are short handed, anchor out!  If you figure-8 around the bull rail (just like you do on a cleat) you get zero line chafe and zero splinters.  Cast off the line from the top and pull the tail from under the rail; no snags, no splinters!

 

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On 10/14/2015 at 1:41 PM, Ishmael said:

 

It's cheaper, probably. Even the most high-class accommodations in Victoria have bull rail with single bolts on the blocks. Apparently friction works well enough, in mysterious ways.

 

DSC_8011.JPG

I like your house mate. Do you clean it yourselves or have some help in?

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

I like your house mate. Do you clean it yourselves or have some help in?

That's the summer cottage. We rarely go there anymore, too infested with tourists and other riffraff.

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Yup, used to play in the attics, got in trouble one time fucking with the elevator weights, had to run like hell.  Was a kid with a girlfriend who's parents owned the old Net Loft restaurant.  Now this is what I like to refer to 10 or 15 years ago, was in the late 50's though.  Amazing memories.

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12 hours ago, Gladiator Sailing said:

Sorry, but you clearly have no idea how to tie to bull rails!  Sitting in Port McNeill after spending 4 months touring BC & Alaska and now heading south.  I've had precisely zero splinters in my lines or hands, but we do anchor out 90% of the time.  However, we also don't let our moorings "chafe" on the bull rail either!

It's not rocket science.  Get to the dock, lay the boat along side, calmly step off and secure the boat.  If the conditions are shit and you are short handed, anchor out!  If you figure-8 around the bull rail (just like you do on a cleat) you get zero line chafe and zero splinters.  Cast off the line from the top and pull the tail from under the rail; no snags, no splinters!

 

I've never let the lines chafe on bull rails. You do have to pass them around the rail to tie up, on many of them that is enough to cover your lines in splinters. On the other hand I have never had splinters in the lines from cleats, nor has anyone else.

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Oi! openly insulting an entire nation!!

No way am I sitting next to you at the next company picnic.

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