DDW

Looking forward to the invention of cleats in Canada

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On 9/30/2018 at 9:45 AM, Norse Horse said:

Image if Atkins had rose to become president...bull rails for America!

Another beauty with a stout rail.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/atkins-eric-jr-never-launched/6708525982.html

 

01212_hr13Ay6NNG1_600x450.jpg

00w0w_89BHpZ9pp9d_600x450.jpg

OMG! Bull rails with a varnished cap! I'm swooning!

Beautiful little boat, BTB, but still in Canada. Even so, it deserves to be finished and sailed. What do you think, Woahboy?

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Keel cast 57 years ago - and not launched yet.

Will the new owner be the second or third person to devote a lifetime's worth of spare time to an unfulfilled dream?

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Keel cast 57 years ago - and not launched yet.

Will the new owner be the second or third person to devote a lifetime's worth of spare time to an unfulfilled dream?

It's really remarkable, but what a nice looking boat. I would hate to see it end up as compost. (Not enough to buy it, though.)

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9 hours ago, Bull City said:

Hmmmm.... well, even though you're skating close to the edge, I will accept that. -_-

Thank you kind sir....

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Harvested a nice crop of Bull Rail Slime from the Port of Nanaimo docks today using pristine white double braid. Yum....

Too slimy for splinters though.

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11 minutes ago, DDW said:

Harvested a nice crop of Bull Rail Slime from the Port of Nanaimo docks today using pristine white double braid. Yum....

Too slimy for splinters though.

Maybe you could get someone to hold your lines while you nail some cleats to the dock.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Maybe you could get someone to hold your lines while you nail some cleats to the dock.

"Welcome to Canada. Bring your own cleats, eh"

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10 hours ago, DDW said:

Harvested a nice crop of Bull Rail Slime from the Port of Nanaimo docks today using pristine white double braid. Yum....

Too slimy for splinters though.

Since the Canadians on this thread either can't or won't do the necessary, it sounds like it's time for black dock lines on the powerboat.

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1 minute ago, IStream said:

Since the Canadians on this thread either can't or won't do the necessary, it sounds like it's time for black dock lines on the powerboat.

there...was that so hard?

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A vote in favour of cleats.

At the recent Port Townsend wooden boat show, I saw a wooden deck cleat from the Hokulea, the famous Hawaiian voyaging canoe (as they’re called, actually a 50-60’ catamaran).  The cleat had approximately 100K miles (really) on it since boat was built in 1978.  The boat was rebuilt prior to her recent  multi year RTW voyage, and the cleat replaced.

Settled - wooden cleats, a successful amalgam of wooden bull rail and metal cleat technologies... :-)  (Perhaps lashed to docks, as the Hokulea has nary a screw or nail on her!)

http://adventuresaboardavatar.blogspot.com/2017/05/hokulea-world-voyage-of-malama-honua.html?m=1

A4E8A087-01D7-4F47-B033-AC681F3280D4.jpeg

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10 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Maybe you could get someone to hold your lines while you nail some cleats to the dock.

My brain just flashed on a maritime version of Johnny Appleseed---  DDW carrying a burlap sack of galvanized cleats wherever he goes, nailing them onto docks in pairs.  Who knows?  Perhaps in 20 or 30 years they will have multiplied.....

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The powerboat came with black lines (why is that?) but I replaced them with white because the black pigment would come off on the rail where they forgot to put a proper chock. 

Probably the best color would be those goldline ones they sell at West Marine, because "it doesn't show the slime". 

I like the idea of sowing cleats. With a battery powered drill and impact wrench, I could have cleats down in less time than it takes to tie up to bull rails. Do I have to find fertile cleats?

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This is pretty inspired. Rather than fertile cleats, we could just set up a GoFundMe for cleat banks in Anacortes, Bellingham, and the various San Juan islands. Before you head into Canada, you'd grab a few for each dock you plan to hit and install them wherever you go. Of course, there'd have to be an app that would ID Canadian slips that have cleats installed already and you could upload video and photos of your installation for vanity's sake. To prevent slipstreaming, you'd have to install at least three slips worth of cleats before it would show you  existing installations and you'd get "points" for each installation so there'd be a competitive aspect to it. Naturally, the whole thing would be monetized by embezzling an overhead charge built into the GoFundMe.

I still haven't worked out whether Canadians should be allowed to participate.

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Oh, but we do have cleats.  We are just not going to tell you where to find them :P.  From big to small, we have them all.  Like these three from different marinas that I saw a week ago when I was down in Vancouver (between rain storms, though ... but what else is new for Vancouver? ;)).  Yes, I'm doing this to give you a tease of what you can't have.  DDW, I think that that second one might be preggers already.  Are you going to pay child support?

1199370607_SecretCanadiancleat1.jpg.0e3c9ba91875f1463540baade54c6091.jpg

646609477_SecretCanadiancleat2.jpg.3c6fa7fd779fdb4d9e7fe45e2e3303f6.jpg

580241938_SecretCanadiancleat3.jpg.513865d12905ec4ed5c8afd1ee195d76.jpg

Yeah, I know that that last one is on top of a bull rail.  It is for schizophrenics.  Or for whining Yanks. ;)

 

<Here is another offering of appeasement>

278462402_marinepeaceofferingintraditionalformfromajuniormemberv2.jpg.0efd4443664f86661a69f7dc3219ee30.jpg

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3 minutes ago, J the landlocked dreamer said:

Yeah, I know that that last one is on top of a bull rail.  It is for schizophrenics..

:D :D :D 

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

A vote in favour of cleats.

At the recent Port Townsend wooden boat show, I saw a wooden deck cleat from the Hokulea, the famous Hawaiian voyaging canoe (as they’re called, actually a 50-60’ catamaran).  The cleat had approximately 100K miles (really) on it since boat was built in 1978.  The boat was rebuilt prior to her recent  multi year RTW voyage, and the cleat replaced.

Settled - wooden cleats, a successful amalgam of wooden bull rail and metal cleat technologies... :-)  (Perhaps lashed to docks, as the Hokulea has nary a screw or nail on her!)

http://adventuresaboardavatar.blogspot.com/2017/05/hokulea-world-voyage-of-malama-honua.html?m=1

A4E8A087-01D7-4F47-B033-AC681F3280D4.jpeg

They aren't cheap enough - all that carving time.

You have to remember there is a strong Scottish heritage here.

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Americans had their chance to get cleats included in the latest NAFTA negotiations but they blew it.

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That's what you get when you put the back row kids in power.

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Norse, you have to give Americans a wee bit more credit than that.  They have modernized (a bit) from their beads.  Now they are trying to pawn off on us their favorite gadget: the USB Finger Dance Mat.

1250401860_AnAmericanfavorite-USB_finger_dance_mat.jpg.b513a3b46a4a23a8732147799f26fc37.jpg

I'll try to respond to them politely.  Sorry, guys, but our tastes are bett..., um, different than yours. But thanks for the offer.

P.s., Further to your picture above, I believe that the Americans do still have the same fashion sense, and the same ability to dress for the conditions. :P

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He was formerly know as....

2j7q7y.jpg

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 This weekend while docking at the pump out in a crosswind by myself I got the midship line cleated off and proceeded with the stern line but there wasn't a cleat within a reasonable distance to use.  For a split second I thought to myself a bull rail would be handy.

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59 minutes ago, Blitz said:

For a split second I thought to myself a bull rail would be handy.

There's no shame in seeking therapy ;) 

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Americans had their chance to get cleats included in the latest NAFTA negotiations but they blew it.

Don’t be so hard on the Americans - they’re way too easy targets of ridicule these days, with red hat president what’s his name and the Evangelical what’s his name VP, and the angry walking crushed beer can I-went-to-elite-prep-school-I-can-do-anything judge what’s his name.  (I can say that, as a recovering American.)

:-)

As to wooden cleats, I’m sticking with it.  Hokulea-proven!!

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4 hours ago, chester said:
4 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

There's no shame in seeking therapy ;) 

but the therapist would only point out he was having a Aha experience

False eureka moments are very common.  Therapy can help in adjusting to the disappointment

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7 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

There's no shame in seeking therapy ;) 

If I get the urge to move to Canada I'll look into it.

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34 minutes ago, Blitz said:

If I get the urge to move to Canada I'll look into it.

Just go sit in the fridge for 8 hours and you'll get over it.

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45 minutes ago, toddster said:

Are there Kokanees in the fridge?

Depends on the size of the fridge and the size of the fridgee. They make me fart, which would be really unfortunate while trapped in a fridge.

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21 hours ago, J the landlocked dreamer said:

Norse, you have to give Americans a wee bit more credit than that.  They have modernized (a bit) from their beads.  Now they are trying to pawn off on us their favorite gadget: the USB Finger Dance Mat.

1250401860_AnAmericanfavorite-USB_finger_dance_mat.jpg.b513a3b46a4a23a8732147799f26fc37.jpg

I'll try to respond to them politely.  Sorry, guys, but our tastes are bett..., um, different than yours. But thanks for the offer.

P.s., Further to your picture above, I believe that the Americans do still have the same fashion sense, and the same ability to dress for the conditions. :P

Such a nationalist.

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29 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Such a nationalist.

Admit it: the reason that you don't like Bull Rails is because the 'alleged' splinters in your fingers would prevent you from playing that game. ;)

So don't get grumpy with me, young man.

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On 10/1/2018 at 11:42 AM, Bull City said:

OMG! Bull rails with a varnished cap! I'm swooning!

Beautiful little boat, BTB, but still in Canada. Even so, it deserves to be finished and sailed. What do you think, Woahboy?

I think it's a gorgeous boat, BC. 

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3 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Someone is facing the reality of 8 months of winter...nothing to do but shovel a tunnel to the front door...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-october-snow-day-two-1.4848394

Hell, it snows in August in Calgary - and not infrequently.

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On 10/2/2018 at 10:25 AM, Veeger said:

My brain just flashed on a maritime version of Johnny Appleseed---  DDW carrying a burlap sack of galvanized cleats wherever he goes, nailing them onto docks in pairs.  Who knows?  Perhaps in 20 or 30 years they will have multiplied.....

Naah, the Canadians would just steal them, again! 

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On 10/2/2018 at 11:23 AM, SloopJonB said:

Americans had their chance to get cleats included in the latest NAFTA negotiations but they blew it.

But in a small paragraph near the end it says that Mexico will now be importing "Canadian Bullrails". 

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We collect them like hockey cards....

Anyone want to trade for this mercury?

Vintage Mercury Outboards Boat Dock Cleat Kiekhaefer Fond Du Lac Wisconsin

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Who knew Canadians were almost...philatelic...

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Just a reminder what a shiny cleat looks like for reference.

Image may contain: ocean, sky, boat, outdoor and water

Provincetown, MA, USA

 

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6 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

Just a reminder what a shiny cleat looks like for reference.

Image may contain: ocean, sky, boat, outdoor and water

Provincetown, MA, USA

 

The mainsheet location looks so wrong!

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That cleat is so nice, I would use my shore power cord to tie up...oh wait

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2 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

That cleat is so nice, I would use my shore power cord to tie up...oh wait

Wouldn't want to muck it up.  :)

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I usually use a jib tweaker to tie off on bull rails but nothing beats a shore power for overnight.:blink:

From the heart of bull rail country, Cow Bay, Prince Rupert.

Prince Rupert.JPG

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4 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

I usually use a jib tweaker to tie off on bull rails but nothing beats a shore power for overnight.:blink:

From the heart of bull rail country, Cow Bay, Prince Rupert.

 

Shore power cables are next level docking.  You guys need to catch up.  Jib tweakers are for amateurs.

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

Just a reminder what a shiny cleat looks like for reference.

Maui, you really stepped in it. Sorry for making the suggestion.:P

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5 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Maui, you really stepped in it. Sorry for making the suggestion.:P

Love it.  :)

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I see why you Americans like cleats so much. It is hard to tie off 12/3 to a bull rail.

Personally, I like the 14/2 or even 18/2 for the small boat

.

50ft of 18/2 makes a fine bow line for heaving to the dock help just heave the end with the female plug;)

Don't ask how I know that...

Image result for extension cord tied to dock
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^^ Also good for running rigging, but I prefer dock hose.

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2 minutes ago, Bull City said:

^^ Also good for running rigging, but I prefer dock hose.

Both have the advantage of no bull rail splinters...

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5 hours ago, Panoramix said:

The mainsheet location looks IS so wrong!

FIFY.

But, no worse than a bull rail on a dock. Two wrong things don't make a right. 

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4 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

Love it.  :)

Me too. There is some funny stuff here.

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6 hours ago, Panoramix said:

The mainsheet location looks so wrong!

We've done that bit.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

We've done that bit.

Yea.  I ordered the blocks tonight to fix it.  lol.   It had been on my mind for a long while but kept putting it off. Still not clear why the previous owner rigged it that way.

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Nothing like posting photos for the SA peanut gallery to motivate repairs/upgrades!

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

Yea.  I ordered the blocks tonight to fix it.  lol.   It had been on my mind for a long while but kept putting it off. Still not clear why the previous owner rigged it that way.

Glad we could help.

Invoice for the consultation is in the mail.

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13 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

Someone is facing the reality of 8 months of winter...nothing to do but shovel a tunnel to the front door...

13 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Hell, it snows in August in Calgary - and not infrequently.

 

Yeah, well:

903812242_animated-snowballbeastbeauty_250.gif.c3c6598a3f874e9922784c4d77acf89e.gif

:P

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

We've done that bit.

Doh....

8 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

Yea.  I ordered the blocks tonight to fix it.  lol.   It had been on my mind for a long while but kept putting it off. Still not clear why the previous owner rigged it that way.

Didn't realise it was your boat, good of you. This main was probably hard to tune and I suspect that the boom might eventually fail if used like this for a long time. They probably rigged it like this to free the cocpit but that's not a good reason to do this IMHO.

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9 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

Yea.  I ordered the blocks tonight to fix it.  lol.   It had been on my mind for a long while but kept putting it off. Still not clear why the previous owner rigged it that way.

LOL...peer pressure getting to you? "Fix your mainsheet or you're not cool!"  ;)

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On 10/3/2018 at 1:54 AM, TwoLegged said:

False eureka moments are very common.  Therapy can help in adjusting to the disappointment

Does therapy help for all disappointments?

 

(Asking for a friend...)

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4 hours ago, Ajax said:

LOL...peer pressure getting to you? "Fix your mainsheet or you're not cool!"  ;)

HAHA.  :)   Not quite, but close.  ;)    It's been on my hit list for two years now, and I am a lazy mo-fo.   The boom has worked just fine in the meantime and is probably why I haven't gotten it done, but I do think its putting a lot of unneeded stress on the boom.  The previous owner has had it this way for over 10 years when he converted it to cabin top traveler. I'm definitely NOT going back to end boom sheeting, but, it needs that third tang connected to spread the load.

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Not to complicate matters but you might want to move the unused tang forward about 6". It'll help with dodger clearance and will help neutralize thrust loading on the gooseneck when sheeted in tight in a blow. 

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2 minutes ago, IStream said:

Not to complicate matters but you might want to move the unused tang forward about 6". It'll help with dodger clearance and will help neutralize thrust loading on the gooseneck when sheeted in tight in a blow. 

That's the one I am re-connecting.  It clears the dodger fine, but I do have a newer dodger than what was on there, so maybe the old dodger was in the way for the third tang.

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11 hours ago, J the landlocked dreamer said:

 

Yeah, well:

 

:P

How much snow did you shovel in Alberta this winter?

Enter the width and length of your driveway to find out the cubic feet and weight in pounds of snow you've cleared so far this season (if you shoveled or plowed every time snow fell). Note: Snow weight is based on water content. For comparison, an empty city bus weighs 24,000 pounds. (App users: Click here to use the calculator.)

 

Length of driveway (feet):

Width of driveway (feet):

You shoveled cubic feet of snow weighing pounds

Image result for shovel snow gif
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1 hour ago, Norse Horse said:

How much snow did you shovel in Alberta this winter

Uh, huh.  Well, to quote some researchers named Köppen and Geiger:

There is significant rainfall throughout the year in Squamish. Even the driest month still has a lot of rainfall. In Squamish, the average annual temperature is 9.6 °C. Precipitation here averages 1433 mm”. <to convert so Yanks can understand: 49 F, 56.4 inches>

:) So it strikes me that what you need are:

338021304_UmbrellaforNorseUni-Horse.jpg.96f97ade67e7e2e212665fa67653a315.jpg    and    2001429827_VitaminDforNorseanemicPony.jpg.b4cd6d9873380d6a4df1b607e627f290.jpg

<But all that being said, I’ll truly admit that Squamish is a beautiful location at the head end of Howe Sound.  And you gets lots of wind.  And yes, you have lots of good whitewater kayaking just to the North.>

<P.s., I wish my dogs were as helpful at shovelling as that dog.  Or even my kid.  Heck, isn't shovelling the reason that we have kids?>

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Now at Lund (in the bakery of course). I note that the newest breakwater dock sports all nice galvanized cleats and on the old ones they have sawn up the old metal bull rail into (sort of) cleats. 

But being October, we are on B dock with bull rails. 

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1 hour ago, DDW said:

Now at Lund (in the bakery of course). I note that the newest breakwater dock sports all nice galvanized cleats and on the old ones they have sawn up the old metal bull rail into (sort of) cleats. 

But being October, we are on B dock with bull rails. 

Nancy's is great.

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6 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

How much snow did you shovel in Alberta this winter?

Enter the width and length of your driveway to find out the cubic feet and weight in pounds of snow you've cleared so far this season (if you shoveled or plowed every time snow fell). Note: Snow weight is based on water content. For comparison, an empty city bus weighs 24,000 pounds. (App users: Click here to use the calculator.)

 

Length of driveway (feet):

Width of driveway (feet):

You shoveled cubic feet of snow weighing pounds

Image result for shovel snow gif

I think all flatlanders have one of these.

It's more or less like owning an umbrella here.

image.png.c3aaa9ac26b78af484e76e2ead7c7e96.png

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Meh.  

A cubic foot of interior basin/ Rocky Mountain snow is like styrofoam.  You can clear your walk with a broom if you get to it before people walk on it.  

Cascade crud is like... cement.  If you don't get to it before the following ice storm (absorption phase) you need a jackhammer.  

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8 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I think all flatlanders have one of these.

It's more or less like owning an umbrella here.

image.png.c3aaa9ac26b78af484e76e2ead7c7e96.png

We have one.

9rTxEqU.jpg

Fucked if I'm going to shovel that by hand any more.

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We just leave our vehicles parked on the street if snow is due.

No way am I going to the trouble of owning a blower for 2 or 3 days a year.

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12 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

We just leave our vehicles parked on the street if snow is due.

No way am I going to the trouble of owning a blower for 2 or 3 days a year.

We don't have any street parking, and we live in a hilly section. So we sucked it up for 20 years then bought my wife's dad's snowblower and had it shipped from Saskatoon. It's a long, convoluted story.

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1 hour ago, J the landlocked dreamer said:

I sense some 'tool' envy there, SJB. ;)

Close but no.

I had lawnmowers for years - same thing except it's warm when you use them and the cut grass smells nice.

Now a riding snowblower with a heated cab.......

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Close but no.

I had lawnmowers for years - same thing except it's warm when you use them and the cut grass smells nice.

Now a riding snowblower with a heated cab.......

One of the (many) reasons I don't live in the burbs is lawns. Here my menagerie of semi-tame wildlife do it all for free and on the few occasions they fall behind (and for ferns and stuff they won't eat, the fussy little bastards) I use my Kubota tractor with 5' cutting width mower deck.

End result, lots more time to sit on the deck, look at the view & drink beer.

If we had snow like you guys do, I'd move to a warmer climate. Actually I do that anyway, every winter here.....

FKT

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On 10/3/2018 at 12:01 AM, Ishmael said:

Just go sit in the fridge for 8 hours and you'll get over it.

This reminds me of what they said in the Navy, if, after getting out and spending some time as a civilian, you ever thought about going back in.  Get up at midnight, on an evening of shitty cold weather, hang a brick around your neck, and spend four hours outside. You'll stop thinking about it.

On 10/4/2018 at 10:37 AM, MauiPunter said:

HAHA.  :)   Not quite, but close.  ;)    It's been on my hit list for two years now, and I am a lazy mo-fo.   The boom has worked just fine in the meantime and is probably why I haven't gotten it done, but I do think its putting a lot of unneeded stress on the boom.  The previous owner has had it this way for over 10 years when he converted it to cabin top traveler. I'm definitely NOT going back to end boom sheeting, but, it needs that third tang connected to spread the load.

Oh shit! The average survival time for boom under these kinds of stresses is 9.7 years. You better get on it soon!

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4 minutes ago, Bull City said:

This reminds me of what they said in the Navy, if, after getting out and spending some time as a civilian, you ever thought about going back in.  Get up at midnight, on an evening of shitty cold weather, hang a brick around your neck, and spend four hours outside. You'll stop thinking about it.

Oh shit! The average survival time for boom under these kinds of stresses is 9.7 years. You better get on it soon!

Bwahahahaha.   Right away sir.

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30 minutes ago, Bull City said:

This thread has some legs.

When it first popped up I thought it was funny but how much more could you say about the subject. So, I ignored it for a couple years and then I got curious how it could still be running so long and I started going back through the pages. One of the most enjoyable reads on the whole web site. 

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

This reminds me of what they said in the Navy, if, after getting out and spending some time as a civilian, you ever thought about going back in.  Get up at midnight, on an evening of shitty cold weather, hang a brick around your neck, and spend four hours outside. You'll stop thinking about it.

Similar to what the doctor used to say to me when I fronted up for my annual medical before going south to Antarctica each summer. He could understand anyone going once, just to see what the place was like, but those like me who *kept* going should be automatic fails on psych grounds.

I regarded it as a paid holiday - no office hassles, boss a long way away, nobody could get hold of you without great effort (pre always-available everywhere internet). Etc. But then I was IT, I only had to go out into the cold if I was bored, the rest of the time I got to hang out on the nice heated bridge and look at the view while pretending to work.....

FKT

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13 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Similar to what the doctor used to say to me when I fronted up for my annual medical before going south to Antarctica each summer. He could understand anyone going once, just to see what the place was like, but those like me who *kept* going should be automatic fails on psych grounds.

Had a chat once with a man who was aiming for an overwinter stint with the UK's setup.  He said the main priority of that selection process was less fitness-to-do-the-job than filtering out anyone whose response to being stuck in an underground tube for six months would be psychosis.  It seems this had happened before.

It seems to me to be that any normal decent person probably would be driven insane by such a scenario.  So basically they were trying to select a particular type of weirdo.

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