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couchsurfer

...something NEW!!

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Too funny Couch!

 

Lotsa new stuff happening in kiting. None of the people who care about that stuff hang out on SA, though.

 

I do, but only because I'm sitting around waiting for side-on-shore wind at 8+ knots, minimum conditions for me as a 79kg dude on a 148cm board and a 17.5m kite.

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Too funny Couch!

 

Lotsa new stuff happening in kiting. None of the people who care about that stuff hang out on SA, though.

 

I do, but only because I'm sitting around waiting for side-on-shore wind at 8+ knots, minimum conditions for me as a 79kg dude on a 148cm board and a 17.5m kite.

 

 

..wow,,that's a bigass kite! I guess you do your best to keep it dry in the light winds. What windspeed can you go up to with that?

I was amazed in Ventana to see that people don't consider 30kts as anything to be worried about,,

'training winds' with a 9m when I was there,,,. while most dinghy sailors are writing 'what scared em'

stories when it's over 20. :mellow::lol:

 

Where you kite at?

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Yep positively huge but there are larger ones.17.5m is 2.5 laser sails :) This one is a 2016 liquid force solo, their single strut design. It can get aloft in about 5 knots, and i can actually ride it in that, but can't stay upwind. With a race board or foil board (my next purchase) it would be easily doable.

 

Relaunch from water below 8kts is difficult. Keep 'er aloft is the best way.

 

I've been out inadvertently in about 17kts with it twice now. At that windspeed you have to be very careful with it. Not really recommended.

 

I've never kited in above ~20kts. I live on Eastern shore of Gulf of Thailand. It is not very windy here. :/

 

30kts on a 9m is pretty nuts. I'd prefer a 6 or 7m for that I reckon.

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Yep positively huge but there are larger ones.17.5m is 2.5 laser sails :) This one is a 2016 liquid force solo, their single strut design. It can get aloft in about 5 knots, and i can actually ride it in that, but can't stay upwind. With a race board or foil board (my next purchase) it would be easily doable.

 

Relaunch from water below 8kts is difficult. Keep 'er aloft is the best way.

 

I've been out inadvertently in about 17kts with it twice now. At that windspeed you have to be very careful with it. Not really recommended.

 

I've never kited in above ~20kts. I live on Eastern shore of Gulf of Thailand. It is not very windy here. :/

 

30kts on a 9m is pretty nuts. I'd prefer a 6 or 7m for that I reckon.

.

 

....Thailand?...must be nice. I'm sure there's lots of other lovely stuff for when the wind's down.

 

 

~30kts,,with a 9m,,,,I'm a big guy,100kg,,,but maybe I got it wrong, was a few years ago.,

...all I know is that I put new meaning to 'flying squirrel',, once ripped the tether base out of th'board :mellow::unsure:

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Like everywhere Thailand has its good and its bad things. Friggen HOT all the time. Gorgeous, mostly thin women. Horribly unsafe roads. Amazing tropical islands 30min boat ride away. Not a single good burger or steak to be found anywhere near me. Awesome Scuba diving with not even a shortie wetsuit required.

 

Ah at 100kg 9m would be okay i think. I dont really know as i've not experienced it yet. Will get to Taiwan west coast sometime next year, and maybe northern Philippines this 'winter', though. Should have a shot at strong winds those places.

 

Can't believe you were able to rip a tether off! I dont use one, but conditions here dont really warrant it. I got good at body dragging back to my board quickly. Been a flying squirrel a couple times but it aint so bad with only 15kts of breeze :) 30kts is another thing entirely!

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was just out on my 9m yesterday, 24-30 ish on the local wind meter. I'm 80kg and was perfect.

 

if it was 30 steady at the beach when i launched, i would go w a 7m, Crazy how that much wind on a kite is a blast and on a keelboat is survival...

 

 

My biggest kite is a 13m and i'm able to ride and stay upwind at around 11-12 kts. below that i'm not interested in kiting anyway.

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Cool, thanks for the info Raked... nice to know that for the first time I have to ride in that much breeze.

 

Amazing how easily you can control the power on a kite vs keelboat and its cumbersome rig in heavy stuff.

 

Not that stuff can't go south REAL quick on a kite of even a small size in 30kts :)

 

steady 11-12 would be an awesome day for us... There'd be like 6 Ozone Edge 17's out and a scrawny kid boosting huge (for me) air with a 13m... We take what we can get here.

 

Before I only had a 2014 14m Switchblade and slightly oversized twin tip board, that kept me sitting on the beach many an afternoon before I got the 17.5m and a 148cm twintip.

 

People keep telling me that with a foil and 13m light-air kite I'd be ripping around for the most part here, even in the lightest stuff. I will have to wait until I get a foil next Feb to see I guess. Can't wait to drink liters of nasty Thai river mouth water as I face-plant repeatedly for days on end... :wacko::wacko::wacko: Plastic bags and other refuse in the water column are good for foils, right?

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God.. Unreal... Makes me want to go out and get one.....

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A little more about the design of the kite and the guy riding in the vid:

 

http://kitescoop.com/2013/11/12/a-peak-into-the-mad-scientist-behind-the-zero-strut-kite/

 

 

 

They make a big deal out of the strutless design, but that is actually hardly new, AirRush has been doing it for a few years already. I've seen a few of these here in light-air Thailand:

 

http://kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/reviews/airush-lithium-zero-18m

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A lil' bump for the 'new and exciting' thread. Peeps on other forums poo-poo this new idea a little, but it seems like a cool idea to me. Seems the rider in this vid has some difficulty with it, but as with all different foils I'm sure it takes getting used to:

https://vimeo.com/173044247

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Interesting to see him shunt instead of tack or jibe. I thought that might be a bi-directional foil shape but they had arrows on them. Hard to make a flying foil that can go either direction but they seem to have done it here.

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I tried one of the inflatable SUPs, I was surprised at how rigid it was. It felt like a regular board.

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Interesting to see him shunt instead of tack or jibe. I thought that might be a bi-directional foil shape but they had arrows on them. Hard to make a flying foil that can go either direction but they seem to have done it here.

 

Ability to shunt a foiling board is the revolutionary idea here. You can ride with your feet firmly attached, regardless of direction traveled, just like your regular old planing twin-tip board you learned on originally. In theory much easier to learn foiling on.

 

I also suspect that angle-of-attack rather than shape of foil is doing most of the lifting work here. I know this is true for all foils, but in this case I suspect angle-of-attack is even more important. That could be a reason why some of his riding doesn't look very smooth. He also probably only had a couple hours max on this totally new contraption before filming began.... so mad props to him for that!

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Interesting to see him shunt instead of tack or jibe. I thought that might be a bi-directional foil shape but they had arrows on them. Hard to make a flying foil that can go either direction but they seem to have done it here.

Ability to shunt a foiling board is the revolutionary idea here. You can ride with your feet firmly attached, regardless of direction traveled, just like your regular old planing twin-tip board you learned on originally. In theory much easier to learn foiling on.

 

I also suspect that angle-of-attack rather than shape of foil is doing most of the lifting work here. I know this is true for all foils, but in this case I suspect angle-of-attack is even more important. That could be a reason why some of his riding doesn't look very smooth. He also probably only had a couple hours max on this totally new contraption before filming began.... so mad props to him for that!

I think that is almost always true, because the mass density of water is 1000x more than air. So it doesn't take much of an angle for the vector lift from the foil to beat the foil shape effects. I'm not even sure that the foil shape could even give enough lift to work at all without the vector lift.

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After watching that video with the race between the moth, kite and 49er, (with the kite winning most of the races) I wonder if a foil might be slower in some cases than just using a regular board. With a foil, and the lowest functional angle of attack, your drag is always going to be roughly the same for a given speed, it's a function of the forward cross-section of your foil. No matter how much that kite pulls you upward, your drag remains roughly constant at each given speed. Then because of nonnewtonian effects, the drag on the foil would increase with increasing speed.

 

But when you're skimming the surface, with the kite providing a huge amount of vectored lift, your drag continues to decrease with the decreasing wetted surface. To the extreme, if you take air for a few moments, your water drag goes to zero and you are left with only air drag. Unless I'm missing something, it seems that increasing speeds offers decreased drag with a board, while increasing speed offers increased drag with a foil.

 

Of course, in lighter air, the foil may be faster because the wetted surface of the board may offer a larger cross section than the foil. I guess it's not an insanely difficult differential to write, but I'm not ambitious enough to do it.

 

 

Anyway, I had my 7 meter out yesterday, still working to teach myself in time for this year's snow, I'm vaguely considering hiring one of the local kite punks to give this old man some lessons.

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^ Your missing the fact that all race kite boards carry deep (25cm+) skegs. either in 3 or 4 skeg setups.

also to keep those skegs working you need to keep them and the board around them in the water as the forward skegs are pretty far forward of the tail.

 

It's been tried and proven many times that the kite foils are faster by say 20% at all wind speeds and points of sail.

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^ Your missing the fact that all race kite boards carry deep (25cm+) skegs. either in 3 or 4 skeg setups.

also to keep those skegs working you need to keep them and the board around them in the water as the forward skegs are pretty far forward of the tail.

 

It's been tried and proven many times that the kite foils are faster by say 20% at all wind speeds and points of sail.

That definitely makes sense, the fins I've seen have a fairly small forward cross section, but it seems obvious that they produce a good amount of turbulence under the board.

 

Especially with a larger kite, I can see the need for fins in heavy air, but how would a foil compare to one of those finless board? I think that the rider in those 49er vs. Moth vs. Kite, used a finned board, but I watched it on my phone so it was hard to see the detail.

 

Does anyone race with a finless board?

 

Anyway, I'm still just a beginner, all of my riding has so far been on a finless board ... a snowboard, so it doesn't count.

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Fins are mandatory, otherwise the board would skip sideways.

 

the race boards use high aspect fins because they are most efficient upwind. a surfboard can get away with short low aspect fins because getting upwind is not a big concern.

 

the only setup faster than a foil would be blades on ice.

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How do the finless guys do it then? Are they carving on an edge?

 

What's the current speed record for a kite foil?

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if by finless, you mean a standard 'twin tip' type board, yes, the rails provide most of the lateral resistance and allow you to stay 'somewhat' upwind.

That being said, a twin tip would be lucky to do more than say 60deg uphill. The race boards and foils are in the low 30's similar to a racing sailboat.

 

Because of the deep skegs on a race board, they are sailed flat.

 

Not sure about the top speed recorded on a foil, but at the top regatta's they've been clocked in the mid to high 30's downwind. Because they are racing to a leeward mark they are not hitting top speeds, which would be closer to 110-120 deg.

 

I don't think the race foils would beat the all out speed records though. There, they have wedge type fins designed to break through the '50kt' cavitation barrier. A standard race foil would cavitate and be out of control before it hit 50.

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Not many people use even twin tip boards totally finless. Mostly only wakestyle people grinding on boxes and ramps ride finless on twin tip boards.

 

You can hammer upwind pretty well with a twintip if you have good form and feel for wind direction and shifts; I feel like it's higher than 60 degrees. As Raked says, compared to a race board with proper fins, they pretty much suck upwind. If you're in marginal wind conditions for your kite size, twintips suffer REALLY badly upwind, though, whereas race boards or even better foil boards just keep on going.

 

I haven't tried it, but apparently riding a twintip without fins makes it very squirrely and difficult to carve turns.

 

I just got two 2017 Cabrinha twintips, a massive 165cm for light air and a 133cm for proper conditions. Both came equipped with fins that have dimples on them, similar to, but even deeper, smaller and more numerous to a golf ball. Never seen this before. Anyone here have experience with fins like that?

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Whoa,very cool, thanks Rasper! Much better/more realistic idea than the "Drone Surfing" one...

 

Wonder why they don't show anyone carving nice turns on that thing? Maybe not as responsive as a kite foiling board because of extra weight of batteries/motor etc?

 

Still very cool for no-wind days! Probably not cheap.

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Whoa,very cool, thanks Rasper! Much better/more realistic idea than the "Drone Surfing" one...

 

Wonder why they don't show anyone carving nice turns on that thing? Maybe not as responsive as a kite foiling board because of extra weight of batteries/motor etc?

 

Still very cool for no-wind days! Probably not cheap.

Where is the thrust delivered? I can't tell too well from the little video, is the jet down near the foil?

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