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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
WCB

Craigslist Finds

852 posts in this topic

How about a thread with good Craigslist finds? I frequently look on Craigslist for boats that are needed by the Park City Sailing Association. Maybe somebody sees something that they really want in this thread that somebody else found.

 

Let's keep it to Sailing Dinghies only, as much as we all love other craigslist finds.

 

To start, here's a Flying Dutchman in Raleigh for $300 or best offer: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/boa/5316974830.html

 

 

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I've seen this one on Crystal Lake but $5K? https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/boa/5327413667.html

 

 

...I could imagine someone biting on that,,,rather pretty and looks to be in good nick.........

 

01111_1hQ0aUJcTbx_600x450.jpg

 

 

 

...but what a gumby job the 'restorer' did on the trailer attachment,,,,makes all his work suspect :mellow:

00505_aDcctYrpBHH_600x450.jpg

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That is an extremely old Blue Jay, and the listed sail number is likely incorrect, unless it was not built by the major builder(s). My old one (#4868) was built in 1968, lacked air tanks, and also had a wooden boom. They've had airtanks at least since the 5K series.

 

Also, who would use a winch on that?

 

Still, they are far better boats for teaching sailing than Optis...

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.

 

 

....it's a pretty boat. If I lived on the water out there and had a few extra G'$ around.......

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That is an extremely old Blue Jay, and the listed sail number is likely incorrect, unless it was not built by the major builder(s). My old one (#4868) was built in 1968, lacked air tanks, and also had a wooden boom. They've had airtanks at least since the 5K series.

 

Also, who would use a winch on that?

 

Still, they are far better boats for teaching sailing than Optis...

 

This looks like a better deal to me

 

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/5295569223.html

 

As for teaching kids to sail in Optis, my observation is that a poor workman always blames his tools. The Opti is actually a nice-sailing little boat. OTOH once they learn to sail, most of them want to bring a friend and the Opti is not good for that; this is where the Blue Jay (or something similar, our program bought plastic Topper Topaz sloops) comes in handy.

 

This Blue Jay does not look like as good a deal -but- you'll be out less cash

http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/boa/5347530889.html

 

Here's another interesting deal

 

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/5243645530.html

 

Looks like you have some work to even get it out of the yard, but lotsa potential, the Star is a fun boat.

 

FB- Doug

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A Star is fun to sail. You can find a good club level boat for $5-6 grand. An average sailor, with a $5k boat, is going to get smoked at a major regatta, but there's no reason several peep couldn't have a bunch of fun sailing them as a local fleet.

The $300 Flying Dutchman would have serious potential as an EC 'monster boat'. Surprised no one has done it yet.

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That is an extremely old Blue Jay, and the listed sail number is likely incorrect, unless it was not built by the major builder(s). My old one (#4868) was built in 1968, lacked air tanks, and also had a wooden boom. They've had airtanks at least since the 5K series.

 

Also, who would use a winch on that?

 

Still, they are far better boats for teaching sailing than Optis...

Before ratchet blocks became available, lots of dinghies came with snubbing winches for the jib sheets. I had one on the 12'er I learned to race on in the 60s, I recall some Thistles and Snipes having them.

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i think this thread could be hazardous to my wallet

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The $300 Flying Dutchman would have serious potential as an EC 'monster boat'. Surprised no one has done it yet.

 

I bet that is the Raleigh almost mulch FD that has come up before.

Didn't have the pictures up where you can see grass through the cockpit this time

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...

The $300 Flying Dutchman would have serious potential as an EC 'monster boat'. Surprised no one has done it yet.

Or something like this

 

http://chautauqua.craigslist.org/boa/5296499497.html

 

Truly a monster without any need for further mods

 

FB- Doug

Scows have a 0.00 finish record. A couple of guys tried an E-scow twice...they never made it past Anna Maria. The guys with the c-scow a couple years ago, Chubacabra, were taking on serious water out in the Gulf. They made CP1 an hour or so behind FrankenScot, but dropped out early the next morning. All but swamped...they barely made it to shore near Sanibel. Gulf gets pretty nasty waves, it's shallow. Even inside route has some exposed sections that can get rough.

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A Star is fun to sail. You can find a good club level boat for $5-6 grand. An average sailor, with a $5k boat, is going to get smoked at a major regatta, but there's no reason several peep couldn't have a bunch of fun sailing them as a local fleet.

.

 

...the Star fleet in Olympia Wa comes to mind. One mainstay that's constantly refurbing old stars,,and a whole bunch who jump in for the game. They have restrictions on how new a hull or sails can be.

 

.....they have a lot of fun.

 

Star%20Races%20029a.jpg

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must have been a good deal... ad has been deleted already....

$300 for an FD with a trailer. Old plastic boat but seemed intact.

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OK, not a sailboat, but I found this little boat on Craig's list and rescued it to use for umpiring team racing and helping out with the local sailing program. She was designed and built in Norway in 1982 by Jan Herman Linge, the designer of the Soling and Yngling. The Musling was his smallest powerboat design and has several larger sisters, the Vesling and the Fordling. As I researched the boat, I found out that they are still in production in Jan's original shop. As near as I can tell, this is the original engine or is at least the same vintage. I did have to build a new center console and reinforce the transom along with a lot of fiberglass repair.

 

post-30777-0-23230400-1449577253_thumb.jpg

 

 

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That is an extremely old Blue Jay, and the listed sail number is likely incorrect, unless it was not built by the major builder(s). My old one (#4868) was built in 1968, lacked air tanks, and also had a wooden boom. They've had airtanks at least since the 5K series.

 

Also, who would use a winch on that?

 

Still, they are far better boats for teaching sailing than Optis...

+1!!!!!

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...

The $300 Flying Dutchman would have serious potential as an EC 'monster boat'. Surprised no one has done it yet.

Or something like this

 

http://chautauqua.craigslist.org/boa/5296499497.html

 

Truly a monster without any need for further mods

 

FB- Doug

Scows have a 0.00 finish record. A couple of guys tried an E-scow twice...they never made it past Anna Maria. The guys with the c-scow a couple years ago, Chubacabra, were taking on serious water out in the Gulf. They made CP1 an hour or so behind FrankenScot, but dropped out early the next morning. All but swamped...they barely made it to shore near Sanibel. Gulf gets pretty nasty waves, it's shallow. Even inside route has some exposed sections that can get rough.

 

 

I know, I know. Scows, even big ones, are poor rough-water boats. And capsizing means GAME OVER, plus they are more difficult to row. But they do hold a lot of promise for shallow-water speed, which is one key to the EC. Just one, though!

 

At one point I was strongly tempted to bring an E-scow here and put it into our PHRF fleet, but it would never be a boat my wife wold enjoy sailing, so I got the Santana 23 instead (which worked great for a while). But a Santana 23 would not be a good EC Challenger at all!

 

FB- Doug

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...

The $300 Flying Dutchman would have serious potential as an EC 'monster boat'. Surprised no one has done it yet.

Or something like this

 

http://chautauqua.craigslist.org/boa/5296499497.html

 

Truly a monster without any need for further mods

 

FB- Doug

Scows have a 0.00 finish record. A couple of guys tried an E-scow twice...they never made it past Anna Maria. The guys with the c-scow a couple years ago, Chubacabra, were taking on serious water out in the Gulf. They made CP1 an hour or so behind FrankenScot, but dropped out early the next morning. All but swamped...they barely made it to shore near Sanibel. Gulf gets pretty nasty waves, it's shallow. Even inside route has some exposed sections that can get rough.

I know, I know. Scows, even big ones, are poor rough-water boats. And capsizing means GAME OVER, plus they are more difficult to row. But they do hold a lot of promise for shallow-water speed, which is one key to the EC. Just one, though!

 

At one point I was strongly tempted to bring an E-scow here and put it into our PHRF fleet, but it would never be a boat my wife wold enjoy sailing, so I got the Santana 23 instead (which worked great for a while). But a Santana 23 would not be a good EC Challenger at all!

 

FB- Doug

Fixed rudders would be a problem in Choko and Florida Bay. None of the Scow entries ever made it that far to find out. IDK what their plan for that was...did they fit transom mounted kickup rudders?

Linton had a real eye-opening experience trying to sail Frankie in the extremely shallow water of S Florida. Much of what he had assumed was completely wrong. Frankie had a custom CB, about 6" deeper than a standard Scot cb, and unballasted. Fantastic out in the Gulf. Nearly useless in shallow water...they often had only a couple inches of board down. Jeff said it really made him appreciate external leeboards, as inefficient as they are, at least lowering as much as the hull draft could be used to prevent leeway. I'm surprised they still went with cb in new boat, though they may still have some tricks up their sleeves.

The other thing was rudders. Jeff uses a sheath lifting dagger rudder in his Classic Moths, works well there for beach launching. So he built a similar for Frankie, using an old cat daggerboard from OH and a custom 'kick out' housing (which took a lot of sorting out). It was a failure...when lifted for extremely shallow water, there simply wasn't enough rudder area left to steer with. A kick-up rudder is preferred, but a deep narrow one puts a lot of load on the housing and pintles, and is awkward to steer when kicked up. Thus, on the new boat they elected to go with twin kick-up rudders, much shallower than a single deep one. I'm pretty sure they're salvage parts from OH's old 'Junkyard Cat', a highly modified Prindle 19.

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Thus, on the new boat they elected to go with twin kick-up rudders, much shallower than a single deep one. I'm pretty sure they're salvage parts from OH's old 'Junkyard Cat', a highly modified Prindle 19.

 

Geez, I didn't even know twin rudders existed, crazy stuff.

 

My only boat is a little 12-foot dinghy that I got off CL for $150 this summer, it's fun! I'm good at flipping it over. I'm not sure what it is though; looks kinda like a butterfly?

 

GracieAnne-smaller.jpg

 

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My only boat is a little 12-foot dinghy that I got off CL for $150 this summer, it's fun! I'm good at flipping it over. I'm not sure what it is though; looks kinda like a butterfly?

 

GracieAnne.JPG

 

 

 

It looks very very much like a Butterfly... they had a V-shaped coaming though. Daggerboard? No bilgeboard slots visible so it isn't an MC.

 

Have you got a good sail for it? If so, I'll give you $160

:P

 

FB- Doug

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My only boat is a little 12-foot dinghy that I got off CL for $150 this summer, it's fun! I'm good at flipping it over. I'm not sure what it is though; looks kinda like a butterfly?

 

GracieAnne-smaller.jpg

 

 

 

It looks very very much like a Butterfly... they had a V-shaped coaming though. Daggerboard? No bilgeboard slots visible so it isn't an MC.

 

Have you got a good sail for it? If so, I'll give you $160

:P

 

FB- Doug

 

 

 

Haha! yup, has a daggerboard. It's a 3 or 4 foot wooden one. The sail is good! Butterflies have a 2-part mast, right? Mine is all 1 piece. Hmmm.

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My only boat is a little 12-foot dinghy that I got off CL for $150 this summer, it's fun! I'm good at flipping it over. I'm not sure what it is though; looks kinda like a butterfly?

 

GracieAnne-smaller.jpg

 

 

 

It looks very very much like a Butterfly... they had a V-shaped coaming though. Daggerboard? No bilgeboard slots visible so it isn't an MC.

 

Have you got a good sail for it? If so, I'll give you $160

:P

 

FB- Doug

 

 

 

Haha! yup, has a daggerboard. It's a 3 or 4 foot wooden one. The sail is good! Butterflies have a 2-part mast, right? Mine is all 1 piece. Hmmm.

 

This could also be a Johnson Mini-Scow. Those were very similar to a Butterfly.

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Here's one of my favs that my bro found.

 

http://denver.craigslist.org/boa/5334354441.html

 

A $200 Etchells. It raced as recently as 2011. It's awfully tempting.

gone already?

 

It wasn't when I posted it. I bet it comes back, ad probably just expired.

 

 

Ad seems to be working...I wonder if the link will. http://denver.craigslist.org/boa/5334354441.html

 

If not, go to Denver, Colorado's Craigslist and type in Etchells and it will pop up.

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Here's one of my favs that my bro found.

 

http://denver.craigslist.org/boa/5334354441.html

 

A $200 Etchells. It raced as recently as 2011. It's awfully tempting.

gone already?

It wasn't when I posted it. I bet it comes back, ad probably just expired.

Ad seems to be working...I wonder if the link will. http://denver.craigslist.org/boa/5334354441.html

 

If not, go to Denver, Colorado's Craigslist and type in Etchells and it will pop up.

It's easily worth the $200, provided you have several thousand more to get it sailing. no rig or sails, hardware missing.

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A beautiful example of a Penguin with a nice setup for travel for those interested. I'm particularly fond of Penguins for some reason. Wish this one had been available when I bought my project Penguin!

 

http://williamsport.craigslist.org/boa/5294581034.html

Sweet! I learned to sail in a Penguin, #6495 built by Customflex. I think it was built in '63 or '64, my dad bought it in '65 when we moved to Florida. Kept it about 2 years, then bought a 12' locally built sloop. Sold the Penguin, kept the British Seagull that came with the Penguin for many years, until my Dad dropped it overboard in Maine in the early 90s.

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Killer deal for $500...

 

01212_3yG4SPZ0vZ6_600x450.jpg

 

Ns 14 three sail inventory.
Upgraded melges 29r rudder cassette so no worries with original design which sucked! Hull great shape mast and boom pirate rigged
This is a fun, wave surfing, save your race boat for the qualifier boat and a steal at 500.00 beach permit good til march 2016.
Consider trade for whatever hit me up!!!
This won't last folks!!!

 

http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/boa/5344061742.html

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I used to have a 1971 Vanguard 470. Loved the boat. No possible way a 470 that old would be competitive in OD racing now. It would still make an enjoyable daysailor or Portsmouth club racer. $1000 is high, should be $500-750.

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Killer deal for $500...

 

01212_3yG4SPZ0vZ6_600x450.jpg

 

Ns 14 three sail inventory.

Upgraded melges 29r rudder cassette so no worries with original design which sucked! Hull great shape mast and boom pirate rigged

This is a fun, wave surfing, save your race boat for the qualifier boat and a steal at 500.00 beach permit good til march 2016.

Consider trade for whatever hit me up!!!

This won't last folks!!!

 

http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/boa/5344061742.html

I like!

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Ditto the NS14, those are sweet boats.

 

An old 470 to knock around on would be great too, especially for the ocean.

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Ditto the NS14, those are sweet boats.

 

An old 470 to knock around on would be great too, especially for the ocean.

I sailed my 470 in the Gulf of Mexico often. Wow, was that a blast when the wind and seas kicked up! Boat was designed for those conditions.

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Yeah, a traveler-vang super rig? 12-pounder recoil mechanism? Some serious big dacron line. Appears to have a block for a vestigial vang of a more usual sort, and a trapeze line bungie-cord back stay....probably i'm more worried about leaking seams between the hull and the deck, the center-board gaskets (i know who would likely be hauling on the fin a lot learning how to sail this thing), and the trailer i probably need to get it from Maine to DC....if the standing rigging was mostly 'indoors' since 1970, i could probably figure out how to re-rig the sheet and the trapeze without too much fuss? The deck is in different colors, and probably spongy as hell, but I'm not planning to stand on it much or worried about the weight as all i want to do is hang out and go faster than some of the other boats around. The rag probably needs some duct tape, and no pics of the rudder, which i think is supposed to be adjustable in order to maintain control....written a first note to the fellow who wants to sell it....

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Ah yes. Looks it could be the old continous main sheet system that you can trim and cleat not only from both sides, but from fore and aft on both sides. Surprised that hasn't caught on.

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more cheating but i'm looking for a cheap sailboat i can sail myself and will do anything to avoid a laser

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/45888

The contender is a kick ass cool boat! Had one, loved it.

The contender is way cooler than a laser. It's a real boat!

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more cheating but i'm looking for a cheap sailboat i can sail myself and will do anything to avoid a laser

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/45888

It seems that the trapeze is rigged. They used one trapeze to suspend the boom. There is nothing else to hold the boom when the sail isn't up. Very common practice eg for over the boom cover.

Once you hoisted the sail you can unhook the trapeze from the boom and rig it to its proper location.

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more cheating but i'm looking for a cheap sailboat i can sail myself and will do anything to avoid a laser

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/45888

That Contender has been on Craigslist for a long time in Maine. It's now white and about $400. It's not up there now but he may have gotten tired of renewing the listing.

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...wow. ...sorta ready for the Eco Challenge :mellow:

 

....and just -begging- for a big Asso kite

 

 

sailboat 16 foot cabin stevenson weekender - $1300 (milwaukee)

00K0K_9qFibB0EBAS_600x450.jpg

google stevenson weekender for info wood sailboat 2007 has nylon sails merc 3.5 outboard new stainless motor mount sails good very light and you can rig it in a couple minutes folding mast very light can tow with any car room to sleep 2 trailer has new tires/rims/bearings complete rig ready to go has wisconsin title $1300

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I always thought Weekender looked like someone copied a mounted half-hull model but didn't know the board it was mounted on wasn't supposed to be part of the boat.

 

Some of them are built with far better materials and level of finish than they deserve.

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I always thought Weekender looked like someone copied a mounted half-hull model but didn't know the board it was mounted on wasn't supposed to be part of the boat.

 

 

Good one, LOL

They are a woodworking project, not a sailboat. They don't really sail, so how can it be one? It would be very interesting to see somebody attempt the Everglades Challenge in a Stevenson Weekender, there's a lot of them out there so this could be a way to cull the herd in a productive and entertaining manner.

 

FB- Doug

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Here's a couple

 

Howmar 12 $975

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/boa/5356700247.html

00J0J_fQuOTDFGNU1_600x450.jpg

 

Looks like a nicer boat than the AMF Puffer I got for a bit less

 

Or is this one a better deal? 1959 Lido 14 $850

http://charlottesville.craigslist.org/boa/5295294555.html

01616_7p5MfHNXtyE_600x450.jpg

 

Hint- the difference in price is WAY more than the difference in the value of the trailers.

 

FB- Doug

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Here's a fun one. Seven unfinished FJ hull for $2k! It's an instant fleet for some program. Some assembly required.

 

http://providence.craigslist.org/bod/5360329039.html

 

I highly doubt that they'll ever go sailing again.

but then again, you never know...

 

.

 

..the ad's not showing,,,but I'd think it's be a no-brainer for an enterprising club to build their junior program

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Here's a fun one. Seven unfinished FJ hull for $2k! It's an instant fleet for some program. Some assembly required.

 

http://providence.craigslist.org/bod/5360329039.html

 

I highly doubt that they'll ever go sailing again.

but then again, you never know...

 

.

 

..the ad's not showing,,,but I'd think it's be a no-brainer for an enterprising club to build their junior program

 

hmm, not so sure after I've seen the pictures.

 

- unfinished hull

- stored and aged outside (what seems for decades - should have stored some whiskey with them)

- no fittings

- no spars

- no sails

- no foils

7 bare, unfinished and aged hulls.

 

good to make a warm fire.

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Scow of some kind. I doubt the hull is solid fiberglass...that flat bottom would be needing some coring to prevent bad oil-canning.

I had a 57 Chevy 2-door wagon originally that color, inside and out.

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Here's a fun one. Seven unfinished FJ hull for $2k! It's an instant fleet for some program. Some assembly required.

 

http://providence.craigslist.org/bod/5360329039.html

I highly doubt that they'll ever go sailing again.

but then again, you never know...

.

 

..the ad's not showing,,,but I'd think it's be a no-brainer for an enterprising club to build their junior program

hmm, not so sure after I've seen the pictures.

 

- unfinished hull

- stored and aged outside (what seems for decades - should have stored some whiskey with them)

- no fittings

- no spars

- no sails

- no foils

7 bare, unfinished and aged hulls.

 

good to make a warm fire.

Ad is NLA. But it's going to cost a few thousand per boat to acquire those parts to outfit those hulls. Plus labor. Any start-up program would be far ahead to pick up a used and complete fleet from a program getting new boats.

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Here's a fun one. Seven unfinished FJ hull for $2k! It's an instant fleet for some program. Some assembly required.

 

http://providence.craigslist.org/bod/5360329039.html

I highly doubt that they'll ever go sailing again.

but then again, you never know...

.

 

..the ad's not showing,,,but I'd think it's be a no-brainer for an enterprising club to build their junior program

hmm, not so sure after I've seen the pictures.

 

- unfinished hull

- stored and aged outside (what seems for decades - should have stored some whiskey with them)

- no fittings

- no spars

- no sails

- no foils

7 bare, unfinished and aged hulls.

 

good to make a warm fire.

Ad is NLA. But it's going to cost a few thousand per boat to acquire those parts to outfit those hulls. Plus labor. Any start-up program would be far ahead to pick up a used and complete fleet from a program getting new boats.

 

 

If the hulls are still sound, then they might be useful to a program's already-existing fleet of beaters. But RK is correct, the cost of fitting out old boats missing major parts is -WAY- more than the price of sailable beaters. An FJ in crap-but-possible-to-sail condition is worth about $400~$900 depending on sails and local demand; generally 420s run a bit higher. An off-the-shelf rudder costs almost that much.

 

Yeah you can make your own rudders (and everything) but the hardware costs too. Shucks just the rope is going to cost a couple hundred. Never forget that skilled+enthusiastic volunteer labor hours are a precious resource, not something to squander. Trust me on this!

 

FB- Doug

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Here's a fun one. Seven unfinished FJ hull for $2k! It's an instant fleet for some program. Some assembly required.

 

http://providence.craigslist.org/bod/5360329039.html

I highly doubt that they'll ever go sailing again.

but then again, you never know...

.

 

..the ad's not showing,,,but I'd think it's be a no-brainer for an enterprising club to build their junior program

hmm, not so sure after I've seen the pictures.

 

- unfinished hull

- stored and aged outside (what seems for decades - should have stored some whiskey with them)

- no fittings

- no spars

- no sails

- no foils

7 bare, unfinished and aged hulls.

 

good to make a warm fire.

Ad is NLA. But it's going to cost a few thousand per boat to acquire those parts to outfit those hulls. Plus labor. Any start-up program would be far ahead to pick up a used and complete fleet from a program getting new boats.

 

If the hulls are still sound, then they might be useful to a program's already-existing fleet of beaters. But RK is correct, the cost of fitting out old boats missing major parts is -WAY- more than the price of sailable beaters. An FJ in crap-but-possible-to-sail condition is worth about $400~$900 depending on sails and local demand; generally 420s run a bit higher. An off-the-shelf rudder costs almost that much.

 

Yeah you can make your own rudders (and everything) but the hardware costs too. Shucks just the rope is going to cost a couple hundred. Never forget that skilled+enthusiastic volunteer labor hours are a precious resource, not something to squander. Trust me on this!

 

FB- Doug

This is correct. My Uni sailing club had 8 old Sunfish that the previous years membership decided to refurbish and had dismantled. Most of the parts were there, just needed know-how and labor. I was in charge of the fiber glassing gang, patching up all the holes. Another guy knew how to spray paint, and was in charge of the paint crew. A woman knew how to sew, and was in charge of repairing the sails. Others chipped in their labor sanding, bolting on hardware, organized fund-raising keggers, etc. We got r done. The people who gutted out the couple semesters long project became life-long sailors.

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Sounds cool. If course it can be done. You gotta ask yourself if it's worth it. If the refurbishment of the boats is part of the whole idea and you have people who enjoy doing it hell yeah!

If you only look at how much money it'll take to get a fleet of working boats then the answer might be no.

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more cheating but i'm looking for a cheap sailboat i can sail myself and will do anything to avoid a laser

 

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/45888

 

 

I agree with your thinking but WTF is going on with the mainsheet?

 

Sailboats_004.jpg

 

Classic 70's rigging, before they figured out that you need lowers to the gooseneck and an 16:1 vang. Then you can use mid-boom sheeting and get rid of the traveller.....

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This looks like a really cool boat at a price that anybody could (should, anyway) afford.

 

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/boa/5364875466.html

 

Good thing it's on the far side of the country from me, I already have too many boats... wait, no I don't!

 

FB- Doug

.

 

...looks almost like a contender,,,but has jib leads. :mellow:

 

01414_dmkzaCKAWKh_600x450.jpg00404_9QYHFBBUGAf_600x450.jpg

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this is exactly why this thread could cost me cash. I could see my girls bombing around the delta on that thing...

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this is exactly why this thread could cost me cash. I could see my girls bombing around the delta on that thing...

 

 

And this is a problem because.... what, exactly ??!?!?!!?

:unsure:

Get thee hence, and buy that puppy!

 

FB- Doug

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This looks like a really cool boat at a price that anybody could (should, anyway) afford.

 

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/boa/5364875466.html

 

Good thing it's on the far side of the country from me, I already have too many boats... wait, no I don't!

 

FB- Doug

 

.

 

...looks almost like a contender,,,but has jib leads. :mellow:

 

01414_dmkzaCKAWKh_600x450.jpg00404_9QYHFBBUGAf_600x450.jpg

Nice find, I had this design bookmarked when I was looking for plans for a boat to build.

It's a Vandestadt design Thumb 15post-101699-0-20979500-1450761700_thumb.jpgpost-101699-0-73818000-1450761784_thumb.jpg

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this is the kind of stuff that keeps me reading this thread.....would love to bring this home...

 

 

 

 

Great design on paper, very cool looking boat. However given that it's built by the same people who gave the world the Sidewinder, I suspect it is junk. Ask Gouvernail... best use for this boat would be to pull a set of molds off it.

 

MFG made heavy flexy hulls and rigged them with plumbing store leftovers. Maybe I'm spoiled, but I pass!

 

FB- Doug

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Everything Szyteemflyre said!!

And...

The first couple dozen were made by the non sailor powerboat builders before I got home from school, walked in and screamed, "you haven't got a damned thing under the mast step and nothing to spread the flex at the transition from the unreinforced single skin hull to where it is bonded to the cockpit floor and holy fuck that rigging is going to blow up the first time it is used!!"

 

They had a thing they called a gennaker fir off the wind that well could have been the first asymmetrical chute

But

The cretins had used the exact same tiny plastic clear for the tack line snd halyard that the Laser builders used to supply as the chest for the rudder tie down line.

 

I took a brand new boat up to Erie bay and pushed the mast through the bottom of the boat as we flattened out on the very first tack out of the harbor.

Out went repair kits to every dealer who had bought one

 

But Gibbs would NOT back off on his fucking stupid cleats.

The prototype wood hull and fig McAlpine Downey sent from England may have been the singular sweetest fastest boat I have ever had the opportunity to sail

All MFG did was fuck it up

 

Then to add insult to injury...

The guys at Playcraft Charger in Richlsnd Missouri bought all the tooling , never used it, would not sell it to me, and finally bulldozed all the molds a few years ago

 

I remain convinced I could have built a kick butt very fast day sailor out of those molds.

It isn't worth my effort to build a mold off a hull as that experimental toy would then cost twenty thousand or way more

 

Grrrrrrr

Just seeing a Whip still totally pisses me off

 

And if I could lay my hands on the 23 foot Cobra molds???

It was our 1972 should have been the J-70

But they bulldozed them

1.jpg

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I remain convinced I could have built a kick butt very fast day sailor out of those molds.

It isn't worth my effort to build a mold off a hull as that experimental toy would then cost twenty thousand or way more

 

 

 

...since when does one apply full shop rate to their labor of love? :mellow:

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I remain convinced I could have built a kick butt very fast day sailor out of those molds.

It isn't worth my effort to build a mold off a hull as that experimental toy would then cost twenty thousand or way more

 

 

...since when does one apply full shop rate to their labor of love? :mellow:

Actually that is the "what I would spend before it floats" amount and I think I am being optimistic

 

Gotta go get a hull somewhere

Gotta fix it up to make a hull mold

Gelcoat resin glass reinforcing wheels

Gotta start over and get the deck ready

Gelcoat Resin glass reinforcing wheels

 

The hull itself gelcoat glass resin

The deck itself

I bet Plexus costs dearly

I have a wood board but I would need to build a rudder

Fittings tiller (mooch extension from a Laser unless I double trapeze the thing)

It would need more ctb for double trapeze

Mast

Boom I could make from junk

Some rigging

I have lots of rigging

Shrouds would certainly be custom

Sails

 

Trailer racks on a trailer ( I must own something)

 

I would need a second guy for a whole lot of days and he not only costs his wages but I would lose out on whatever he would normally be doing to cover the overhead

 

It just seems $20,000 would go away before a boat could go sailing

Or more

 

Realism says the rig would not be right the first time and the hull and deck laminates would need to be tweaked

So... I might have a boat I couldn't even sell

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Everything Szyteemflyre said!!

And...

The first couple dozen were made by the non sailor powerboat builders before I got home from school, walked in and screamed, "you haven't got a damned thing under the mast step and nothing to spread the flex at the transition from the unreinforced single skin hull to where it is bonded to the cockpit floor and holy fuck that rigging is going to blow up the first time it is used!!"

 

They had a thing they called a gennaker fir off the wind that well could have been the first asymmetrical chute

But

The cretins had used the exact same tiny plastic clear for the tack line snd halyard that the Laser builders used to supply as the chest for the rudder tie down line.

 

I took a brand new boat up to Erie bay and pushed the mast through the bottom of the boat as we flattened out on the very first tack out of the harbor.

Out went repair kits to every dealer who had bought one

 

But Gibbs would NOT back off on his fucking stupid cleats.

The prototype wood hull and fig McAlpine Downey sent from England may have been the singular sweetest fastest boat I have ever had the opportunity to sail

All MFG did was fuck it up

 

Then to add insult to injury...

The guys at Playcraft Charger in Richlsnd Missouri bought all the tooling , never used it, would not sell it to me, and finally bulldozed all the molds a few years ago

 

I remain convinced I could have built a kick butt very fast day sailor out of those molds.

It isn't worth my effort to build a mold off a hull as that experimental toy would then cost twenty thousand or way more

 

Grrrrrrr

Just seeing a Whip still totally pisses me off

 

And if I could lay my hands on the 23 foot Cobra molds???

It was our 1972 should have been the J-70

But they bulldozed them

1.jpg

 

I've seen these for sale a couple of times, usually at ridiculous prices. Sometimes called a "Ford 20" or something like that. It looks very cool, clearly a boat ahead of it's time.

 

If it would really cost $20K in materials to produce a set of molds for a Whip size/shape boat hull & deck, then I agree that is a really impractical and stupid expenditure. But it's an awful shame that these boats weren't better built in the first place.

 

Nowadays it's hard to imagine what sailing gear was like... I remember when my father was thrilled with his new low-stretch braided rope halyards. Everything was twisted 3-strand; blocks were more similar to what Mom had on the clothesline than the Harken and Ronstan blocks today, clam cleats were Bakelite monstrosities. And they were better than what went before; but I remember looking at the MFG Sidewinder when it was relatively new, and a small fleet of them appeared at our sailing club. Cool and fast-looking! But the rigging & foils were cheap and clumsy by comparison to the boats I was already sailing, Sidewinder sailors clearly struggled just to make the boats do basic stuff. And the fleet only lasted a few years.

 

More recently, a junior program I am involved in was given an MFG Pintail. Although it looks very much like a normal little boat, it was horrible in every respect. Tippy but underpowered, difficult to steer, heavy but flexy. After one test sail by the coaches we decided not to EVER expose students to such a piece of junk. I lobbied to keep the trailer and dumpster the boat, however the program needed cash so it was spiffed up & sold to an unsuspecting buyer (who I don't think has ever actually sailed it).

 

Combine this with Gouvernail's stories, and the 'temptation' of a Craigslist Whip/Sidewinder/Pintail/Bandit/etc becomes easy to resist.

 

FB- Doug

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Doug...

The Ford 20 was a different beast

We built a few dozen

The Cobra never made it out of product development and into production

We made a few but never really figured out how to mass produce the things

Hell.,we didn't even know what we were trying to accomplish except to make something that moved more like a Dutchman than an Ensign

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The description of the Pintail is fitting - we had 3 of them at a program I worked for. They sucked out loud.

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The newest Pintail is about to have a 40th birthday.

Every year from 1970 we tried to stop building them but we kept getting orders and never built fewer than 200 in a year.... Which was the perfect number for a set of molds that hung on our monorails and just moved around through the production shop.

It was so simple we could send it down the powerboat production line to have its deck fastened on and the nearly no existent rigging installed.

There were even fleets and the Nationals always drew forty or more boats.

No one has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public

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