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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
WCB

Craigslist Finds

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Jet is well priced and looks the deal, to me, but am far north and already plunged.

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+1 to that...Vangard 420...worth the trip, even if from CA.. Solid and stiff 420s. Hope it has the adjustable foot for cat rig, some as I recall did not..

ideal wee boat. You good Dad...I used that idea once in awhile, when I bought or built for me,. Spend couple outings or season teaching how to sail it...like I did with AF trains, at Christmas time. But, last round got stuffed, wife quite the water, and left me with my swill raft to myself. TSk! Tsk!  

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Dig that, but no room for swill-box...just a bit too small for my fat arse...and am missing my crazy fast 0-rigger and season just ended...woe is me!

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That Boston Whaler looks such a nice boat, self draining, all the length usable, easy to move around in, and I'm still wrestling with old club Wayfarers that have no where near the utility.

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1 hour ago, Dart96 said:

That Boston Whaler looks such a nice boat, self draining, all the length usable, easy to move around in, and I'm still wrestling with old club Wayfarers that have no where near the utility.

+1. Never quite understood why that rig was not pupular with thoughtful swabs like us.

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The Harpoons are OK. Not that fast, but more than adequate performance for a recreational Daysailer. Stable and safe. Built like a tank. They sold quite a few, I'm surprised they didn't stay in production longer.

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1 hour ago, WCB said:

Free J24 in Ann Arbor Free J24

Considering the 800 pound keel is only worth about $550 as scrap metal and everything else will be subject to fees at the dump and the trailer cannot roll without spending a few hundred dollars..

if it were across the street from

my shop I would only charge $1000 to make it go away.

in town, 20 miles away that number would double 

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Gouv reminded me...sometimes, the missing stuff is the biggie....daggers and rudders must often be custom hand-jobs...you get my drift.

Lasers, must be looked at...some have bubbled decks and are warped...etc 

Funny, the older boats like Banshee, Kites even lowly Sunfish never seem to have a problem.

 

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2 hours ago, BobBill said:

Gouv reminded me...sometimes, the missing stuff is the biggie....daggers and rudders must often be custom hand-jobs...you get my drift.

Lasers, must be looked at...some have bubbled decks and are warped...etc 

Funny, the older boats like Banshee, Kites even lowly Sunfish never seem to have a problem.

 

Banshees have their problems -- most often rotted transoms, from what I can tell. Getting a new set of drapes for mine this winter, and even affixing a traveller (finally).

Now, here's an Albacore -- wanted one of these in the worst way about 10 years ago.  this one is even not that far away, but sadly I have no room for it.

https://springfieldil.craigslist.org/boa/d/sailboat/6405418377.html

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2 hours ago, bplipschitz said:

Banshees have their problems -- most often rotted transoms, from what I can tell. Getting a new set of drapes for mine this winter, and even affixing a traveller (finally).

Now, here's an Albacore -- wanted one of these in the worst way about 10 years ago.  this one is even not that far away, but sadly I have no room for it.

https://springfieldil.craigslist.org/boa/d/sailboat/6405418377.html

Albacores are lovely rigs...I was same way for a bit...also drooled over a very nice Kestral...but backed off Too far.

I did not know Banshees sported Travelers, though needed...and one can fix soft transoms with epoxy and patience.

Seems someone in CA makes sails for them still.

Always was more boat than a Laser...to me. But, I am a lead lover most, even if I have a MO variation fun ride.

 

Ahhh, am slow...you have a Banshee...used to have different avatar???

How you gonna do traveler...midship or transom - either legal?

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14 minutes ago, BobBill said:

Albacores are lovely rigs...I was same way for a bit...also drooled over a very nice Kestral...but backed off Too far.

I did not know Banshees sported Travelers, though needed...and one can fix soft transoms with epoxy and patience.

Seems someone in CA makes sails for them still.

Always was more boat than a Laser...to me. But, I am a lead lover most, even if I have a MO variation fun ride.

 

Ahhh, am slow...you have a Banshee...used to have different avatar???

How you gonna do traveler...midship or transom - either legal?

Ja, changed the avatar.  Traveller is legal and was available as an option, mounted along the top of the thwart.  I've been wanting to put one on mine, and just received the parts the other day -- this winter's project!  Should be something to keep me out of the bars, if only for a little while. . .

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22 minutes ago, bplipschitz said:

Ja, changed the avatar.  Traveller is legal and was available as an option, mounted along the top of the thwart.  I've been wanting to put one on mine, and just received the parts the other day -- this winter's project!  Should be something to keep me out of the bars, if only for a little while. . .

No way that job should mend one's swilling ways...so, you attach a suitable piece of wood to the thwart, and deck on each side...I presume you have access ports to attached backers and nuts...to deck anchor spots. Am guessing the thwart itself is or should be easy (simpler) to add fasteners...using mahogany??? 

Curious, did you acquire compete traveler, or assembled, say 5.8 track, slide and will use line and clams as stops? Sounds fun.

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20 hours ago, BobBill said:

No way that job should mend one's swilling ways...so, you attach a suitable piece of wood to the thwart, and deck on each side...I presume you have access ports to attached backers and nuts...to deck anchor spots. Am guessing the thwart itself is or should be easy (simpler) to add fasteners...using mahogany??? 

Curious, did you acquire compete traveler, or assembled, say 5.8 track, slide and will use line and clams as stops? Sounds fun.

I bought a basic Harken small boat setup -- 1m length of low profile track, the car made for soft shackles, and the end stops that allow dead-ending the line in.  For now, I'm not going to mount controller lines, but rather sail it like I see Finns sailed, without controlling the traveller.  If I don't line that, I'll affix control lines.

Actually for now, it's 3 degrees and it's under 3" of snow, so I'll just sit inside and ponderate upon it.

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Aye. I forgot about "stops!" They work better and not as messy as lines...as to cold, we are "in same boat"...-3 here...and I just figured out way to keep sail out of water when lowered...but have to wait until spring to play with it. Egad, it's "Moon of the Popping Trees..." fargin cold...it is!

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Might this thread be in wrong forum, given anything boat could appear here out of these "lists?"

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17 hours ago, BobBill said:

Might this thread be in wrong forum, given anything boat could appear here out of these "lists?"

I don’t understand your post. Perhaps it is too brief to offer sufficient explanation for a dense fellow. 

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I was perusing the "Sailing" forum and it stuck me that this thread is in the "Dinghy" forum, but could just as well show cats or outriggers etc, as it has, and that Sailing might be broad enough to cover....not moaning, just a thought, and with 1126 + post probably foolish thought. Sorry! it is below zero here and "brain frost" is common. Which reminds me, hope I sealed my hulls...against snow.

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20 hours ago, BobBill said:

I was perusing the "Sailing" forum and it stuck me that this thread is in the "Dinghy" forum, but could just as well show cats or outriggers etc, as it has, and that Sailing might be broad enough to cover....not moaning, just a thought, and with 1126 + post probably foolish thought. Sorry! it is below zero here and "brain frost" is common. Which reminds me, hope I sealed my hulls...against snow.

You aren't wrong. The Ed was starting a similar "thread" of finds of keelboats on the homepage.  I alerted him to this thread and he admitted that he didn't know that it existed so I think it's fair to say that in general it's best to leave this thread here for the dinghy lovers but there's merit in starting a similar thread in each of the forums for the best finds and deals of each category that excites that particular audience.

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Along those lines and not intending on writing a personal  commercial >>

Old Sailboat parts ...

i am certain the sailing community would benefit from some sort of system where we could say “I have a stemhead fitting for a Whatnot 27.5” and six years later some sailor who just hit a bulkhead could find that needed fitting.

in my 38 years running a Sailboat repair shop I have accumulated a huge stash of “worthless” items that cost serious money when first bought, have no use today, but would be worth hundreds of dollars if somebody happened to need them.

The parts from my recently parted out J-34 are a fine example. I suppose the mast and rod rigging would cost at least $10,000 to replace but my bet is that rig will not be findable if someone dismasts one of the other 40 still functional J-34s. 

Pretty much every week I do find a use for one of my saved parts from an out of production boat. I even know a lot about the old saved stuff inventory at other boat shops around my lake.

but... if somebody needs a mast for a San Juan 28 next week, it sure would be nice If he could browse some sort of database 

 

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+1. Never could figure out why no clearing house was up for these parts...they never really get old...I pack-rat stuff lots, you never know...thinking alike in different places together...time to swill.

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1 hour ago, BobBill said:

+1. Never could figure out why no clearing house was up for these parts...they never really get old...I pack-rat stuff lots, you never know...thinking alike in different places together...time to swill.

It wouldn’t be too hard to create. Maybe an open source database where folks could place “inventory available”. Think a “boatlist” but no expiration.  Problem would be for folks with lots and lots of stuff, how to enter the data.

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Do like Bezos and others (eBay) do for some items, data bank one place, inventory everywhere, take percent off top of sale. As Gouv noted, so much out there, high cost, and rotting, never quite understood. Where did the young ones  and Land's End places go? (Never forgave Comer for quitting.) For example, look up Hyfield lever on eBay or anywhere...you know these things got to be laying around all over. or old Clam Cleat bollard salvage. Happy Days!

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The Star is a deal. Price is now $350...the trailer is worth that. You're not going to win the Bacardi Cup with it, but it would be fun to club race. Sail with 3 if you don't want to droop hike. Plenty of barely used sails available. 

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

The Star is a deal. Price is now $350...the trailer is worth that. You're not going to win the Bacardi Cup with it, but it would be fun to club race. Sail with 3 if you don't want to droop hike. Plenty of barely used sails available. 

Anybody know what year and builder it is?  

Edit:  Just texted the seller

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

The Star is a deal. Price is now $350...the trailer is worth that. You're not going to win the Bacardi Cup with it, but it would be fun to club race. Sail with 3 if you don't want to droop hike. Plenty of barely used sails available. 

+1 if I was not "locked in" to trailering and my project...would have paid the higher price...good looking boat/deal.

 

19 minutes ago, WCB said:

Anybody know what year and builder it is?  

Edit:  Just texted the seller

Be good info...make us "Star-lits" even more envious.

 

Add same feeling for the old tunnel job earlier...nice boat...they were very underrated inland boats, IMHO. Suckers are fun! And, if I recall, rules say no spinnakers.

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He doesn't know the year, builder, or sail number.  I asked him to look for the plaque on the bulkhead.  We'll see if that works.  He said he'll look on Thursday.

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Haven’t owned a Star in 45 years but if I had had some free time I would have left already. 

 

It is not a $20,000 race toy. It is something shaped like a Star tgat sails. 

 

As for you guys wondering ehat year and builder...

you don’t want the free boat. Quit bothering  the seller. 

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 12:26 PM, Looper said:

Starboat, $450....  https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/boa/d/starboat-sailboat/6404364238.html

 

..still a dinghy in my mind.

I know where there is one sitting that would go for free. Most all parts and pieces are there, needs a lot of cleaning to put in the water and sail. There are a number of sails my brother collected over a few years so enough to get by with. Like RKoch stated above, you are not going to win the Bacardi with it but could club race or daysail. In Florida, pm me if you want info.

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3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Haven’t owned a Star in 45 years but if I had had some free time I would have left already. 

 

It is not a $20,000 race toy. It is something shaped like a Star tgat sails. 

 

As for you guys wondering ehat year and builder...

you don’t want the free boat. Quit bothering  the seller. 

Gouv,

I'm just looking for a Star to play with on the lake but that doesn't stop my curiosity on the year and builder.  I get that it's irrelevant but it's fun to find out, mostly because I find some sail numbers more appealing than others.  Plus, what if it's a find?  What if it's a 77xx Lillia that's a diamond in the rough, that's what we're here for aren't we?

 

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14 hours ago, WCB said:

Gouv,

I'm just looking for a Star to play with on the lake but that doesn't stop my curiosity on the year and builder.  I get that it's irrelevant but it's fun to find out, mostly because I find some sail numbers more appealing than others.  Plus, what if it's a find?  What if it's a 77xx Lillia that's a diamond in the rough, that's what we're here for aren't we?

 

Certainly . You are correct. One with the famous G on the keel wouid be wonderful as well. 

And...

yanking our fellow poster’s  Chains.. is also “watt were he’re four.”

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, WCB said:

Gouv,

I'm just looking for a Star to play with on the lake but that doesn't stop my curiosity on the year and builder.  I get that it's irrelevant but it's fun to find out, mostly because I find some sail numbers more appealing than others.  Plus, what if it's a find?  What if it's a 77xx Lillia that's a diamond in the rough, that's what we're here for aren't we?

 

+1! Aye! Pinging's a pain too. 

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2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Certainly . You are correct. One with the famous G on the keel wouid be wonderful as well. 

And...

yanking our fellow poster’s  Chains.. is also “watt were he’re four.”

 

 

 

Good point on the chains... 

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Decent. Those rigs have halyards? Sale might be a bi weather dependent, in any case. Looks Detroit area...I'd be thinking....

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11 hours ago, Looper said:

Just in case I have failed to communicate sufficiently 

I hate Zumas!!!

They were the boat used  for the O’Day finals in about 1994. 

We bent every top section on the first day.

Dead downwind in a blow  was nearly impossible. I stood on the very back of the boat and steered with the tiller  between my legs.... If i  moved foreward the bow submerged. 

BYW: it worked. I was in third after the first day and was the only one who stayed upright all day. 

When the wind died for the rest of the Regatta we quit breaking the boats but I sure as hell didn’t stay in third.  

Back to hating the pieces of shit. They are promoted as learning boats. BULLSHIT!!!!

The women’s championship representative who was doing a Europe Dinghy  campaign trying to go to the Olympics spent her  entire day swimming. It was the boat. Not her incompetence. They are dangerous fragile pieces of shit 

 

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9 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Just in case I have failed to communicate sufficiently 

I hate Zumas!!!

They were the boat used  for the O’Day finals in about 1994. 

We bent every top section on the first day.

Dead downwind in a blow  was nearly impossible. I stood on the very back of the boat and steered with the tiller  between my legs.... If i  moved foreward the bow submerged. 

BYW: it worked. I was in third after the first day and was the only one who stayed upright all day. 

When the wind died for the rest of the Regatta we quit breaking the boats but I sure as hell didn’t stay in third.  

Back to hating the pieces of shit. They are promoted as learning boats. BULLSHIT!!!!

The women’s championship representative who was doing a Europe Dinghy  campaign trying to go to the Olympics spent her  entire day swimming. It was the boat. Not her incompetence. They are dangerous fragile pieces of shit 

 

I agree. I sailed them in an invitational in 93. I was the first to figure them out, so was the top dog that day, but was very unimpressed with the boat. 

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10 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

Zuma stern must be near top of list of ugliest dinghy sterns. 

Aye, but you never saw my bare stern...it's ugly.

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Just my luck, I took one of these as a partial trade in the fall. Mine has a full laser rig though. I only sailed it for a few hours, but it didn't seem that bad. Of course I haven't had any downwind runs in 20+ winds yet. I do have the old style Laser vang and I was using a little downwind out of habit. Maybe that helped.

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3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

A Banshee is a cut-down FJ. This one doesn't look quite right for that, but I don't know what to suggest it might really be. Trailer looks decent but not galvanized, could be a good deal. I would not want a colored deck in any southern climate much less Texas, though

FB- Doug

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

A Banshee is a cut-down FJ. This one doesn't look quite right for that, but I don't know what to suggest it might really be. Trailer looks decent but not galvanized, could be a good deal. I would not want a colored deck in any southern climate much less Texas, though

FB- Doug

I agree...dead tire is not a problem...4 or 5 bolt rim/tire might be...lad could use lesson in photography.

I think color is also plain ugly hue...

No hike straps...no center traveler, so not a Force 5. Cannot see hull enough to commit...early messed Laser?

I really cannot tell if Banshee or not (bottom half FJ shape as noted) but I will say the bow chock should be a give-away. Seems the only Banshee I fooled with had one you grabbed, if that makes sense.

Be interesting to see in person, but alas, we are more or less frozen in place here...until tomorrow...besides, plow just put another snow-wake across driveway...fun, the Moon of Popping Trees, in MN, cept they do not pop much like they used to pop. Booom! Knock the snow off limbs and ruin the hunt all at once. Those were the days.

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Hmm The Holder 12 has that weird cut away ass end (top below) that I can't make out in the photo above. But the picture of the Holder on the right certainly does have a strong resemblance.

Image result for holder 12 sailboat photos

Image result for holder 12 rigging

 

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No cut away on the orange boat. 

I suspect it is a European Boat for a couple reasons:

1. it is the same color as a Dutch built scow I saw last summer.

2. I think I have seen one of this boat before and the goyvwho told me all about his toy brought it from Europe when he moved here. 

 

In fact, it could be the same boat 

i suppose I  need to answer the ad and go look for myself

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Stern looks typical to me...Lousy pics!...And who would paint it like that? I still lean to Laser; but cannot see enough save no stays/chainplates etc, but will not lose sleep. Austin must be warm... send the guy a note?

But let us know, so I can sleep.

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Definitely not a Laser. And in complete geek mode, I zoomed in on the mystery boat photo and if you look closely at the aft starboard corner of the boat, it sure looks like things drop off behind that tie down. Then you can see that curved transom of the Holder pop up into view over the tie down. Plus the cockpit is the same shape. I bet 50 DA bucks (same valuation as Monopoly money) that it is indeed the Holder 12. 

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Cannot argue, just cannot see so well. I tried P-shop and could not get more. And, know squat about Holders, Lasers, snowblower and weather...The giveaway, to me is the bow-eye or chock...or whatever. However Holder made them...it looks flush deck...Lasers and so-on had upper sort easily grabbed etc. No angled-in stern and traveler holes in transom...center hump for main block...weird?

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But, upon closer look, maybe there is block peaking out and v-shspe of deck matches flush bow-eye...way weird pics.

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A steal...if I was close to water...looks great but what do I know.

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On 11/7/2017 at 12:26 PM, Gouvernail said:

I have sent an email. If it has been stored without unacceptable sun cooking I will be making a four day road trip 

Gouv, so this boat showed back up and I sent the link to the same dad whom I had sent it to before. He got in touch with the seller and is now the proud owner of it! It's actually a 2002 that was bought new in 2004 and it was never fully assembled or sailed. It is a cherry time capsule. The only issue seems to be that the seller was given a Sunfish daggerboard that was passed off as the rudder so the new owners are buying a new rudder for it but the teenager who it was bought for was having fun assembling it in Colorado yesterday.  Another Craigslist Find success story.  

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Am jealous...wish I was near water...nice boat...pics please!

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9 hours ago, WCB said:
On 11/7/2017 at 2:26 PM, Gouvernail said:

I have sent an email. If it has been stored without unacceptable sun cooking I will be making a four day road trip 

Gouv, so this boat showed back up and I sent the link to the same dad whom I had sent it to before. He got in touch with the seller and is now the proud owner of it! It's actually a 2002 that was bought new in 2004 and it was never fully assembled or sailed. It is a cherry time capsule. The only issue seems to be that the seller was given a Sunfish daggerboard that was passed off as the rudder so the new owners are buying a new rudder for it but the teenager who it was bought for was having fun assembling it in Colorado yesterday.  Another Craigslist Find success story.  

Excellent! Except for the new rudder, typical of cheapo boats. Always "buyer beware."

But on the whole, a big PLUS for you all

FB- Doug

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12 hours ago, Port Wine said:

Not a dinghy, but not a bad deal ...

http://sailingtexas.com/201801/ssantana23128.html

874180CC-C51C-427F-B44A-22AA9926C744.jpeg

Really really depends, could easily be a large number of real PITA problems with this boat. For example, there were several versions of the rudder, one of which was a cheesy stainless post with two flanges tack-welded at top and bottom for the tiller and rudder blade........ badly under-spec, needs total replacement. These boats were built with random chunks of wood tossed into the mold and sprayed over, some or most of it could be rotted from just sitting there. Tougher than replacing real core, especially around the ballast tank valve.

There are a couple of this boat's older better sister, the 23D, for sale right now on Sailing Texas....... having had one of these, and rebuilt it extensively/expensively, I'd take either of those (or the Tuna 20 also listed) over this boat.

http://sailingtexas.com/201701/ssantana23127.html

http://sailingtexas.com/201701/ssantana23126.html

The main benefit of the 2023 was lighter towing weight, they didn't sail anywhere near as well. The 23D is a light-air rocket and a pretty good all-around boat as long as you're not looking for modern sportboat. Some times I regret selling mine (then I remember what I was looking at in continued rebuild projects and new $sail$$).

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Excellent! Except for the new rudder, typical of cheapo boats. Always "buyer beware."

But on the whole, a big PLUS for you all

FB- Doug

It was actually an interesting, and sad story. The seller had bought the boat from a dealer who has apparently since gone out of business and possibly passed as well.  The seller of the Laser suffered a stroke and thus couldn't complete the initial assembly of the boat and that's why it sat for so many years.  The Laser has a good home now with a kid who will thoroughly enjoy it.  

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2 hours ago, WCB said:
5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Excellent! Except for the new rudder, typical of cheapo boats. Always "buyer beware."

But on the whole, a big PLUS for you all

FB- Doug

It was actually an interesting, and sad story. The seller had bought the boat from a dealer who has apparently since gone out of business and possibly passed as well.  The seller of the Laser suffered a stroke and thus couldn't complete the initial assembly of the boat and that's why it sat for so many years.  The Laser has a good home now with a kid who will thoroughly enjoy it.  

Holy moly, a VIRGIN Laser!?!?

Glad the boat ended up in a good home. It's great for learners and should be exciting enough to keep him interested for a while.

FB- Doug

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57 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Holy moly, a VIRGIN Laser!?!?

Glad the boat ended up in a good home. It's great for learners and should be exciting enough to keep him interested for a while.

FB- Doug

Yes, a fifteen year old virgin Laser sold to a Colorado high school kid.  A great find.

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24 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

 

What is the blue and white boat in background of this shot? Is that a bilgeboard sticking up?

 

I think that's a Geary 18 with something sitting on the deck. [edit to add disclaimer] I scrolled back & forth thru the pics a couple of times looking at the yellow "boat" which is actually a wheelbarrow.

That red 5O5 would be worth taking a look at half that price. I bet the hull is soft, it's old enough to have wooden gun'ls which I think makes it a pre-epoxy pre-vacuumbag boat. But it's red and it's on a galvanized trailer. Make a fun knockaround boat.

FB- Doug

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