WCB

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6 hours ago, BobBill said:

Alan,  thanks. How do people find these things? Yes, older rig and one of those, better look at it jobs, as Stumbling notes, wheel spokes missing? Then again, might be a solid woody. Orig bronze is worth 250 $coots, seems to me. Looks like metal mast...???

For a recent period I thought the class went to retractable keels...love to see the layout.

That's 110 #130.  It was posted on the 110 Facebook page a couple of times.

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How about a Laser EPS?  I don't think I've ever heard of one of these but it seems like it was way ahead of it's time.

Laser EPS in Bay Area

 

lasereps.jpg

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And what is this thing in Prunedale, CA that's only $150?  The seller has no idea what it is either but all I can think of is that it looks like a Europe.

What is it for $150?

 

cheap.jpg

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5 minutes ago, WCB said:

And what is this thing in Prunedale, CA that's only $150?  The seller has no idea what it is either but all I can think of is that it looks like a Europe.

What is it for $150?

 

cheap.jpg

Flying Junior maybe?  Looks a lot like what I remember from about 40 years ago when someone in our sail club had one. Looks like it measures about right.

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On 10/2/2019 at 1:27 PM, WCB said:

And what is this thing in Prunedale, CA that's only $150?  The seller has no idea what it is either but all I can think of is that it looks like a Europe.

What is it for $150?

 

cheap.jpg

Key word in the ad >>> was

Thirty years ago the toy was probably pretty special.

Today is is a Stripped derelict hull. It has no use unless someone else happens to have the exact same kind of boat which was in perfect shape before a giant tree fell and crushed it..... while the mast and boom were safely stored elsewhere. 
 

I’m out 

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well, it's advertised as class legal in the ad. no one would lie about that, would they?

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19 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

A four Twinkies for sale:

https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/d/winter-haven-420-sailboat-race-ready/7000653899.html

00q0q_cOeAEbs8gMh_1200x900.jpg

I have read the thread on the non-class legal boats, don't know if this is in that production run, but it is available in Winter Haven, FL.

- Stumbling

IIRC the illegal laminate schedule was in PS2000s not in Zims, which are built in the old Vanguard molds in China. 

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Apparently it can also sail upside down.  

Thistle.jpg

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10 hours ago, Locus said:

Apparently it can also sail upside down.  

Thistle.jpg

They typed "do a barrel roll" into google search on their phone, and hilarity ensues!!!

- Stumbling

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Nice rig...

$$$? Does not look to be butt-cutter either, and a trailer...

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Here's a 2005 Laser and while that's not special by itself, it wins two awards in my book.  One of the best sail numbers I've ever seen, 181818 and a super custom Australia II style trailer.  Suh-weet!  

Check out the trailer!!

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Pretty sweet and at 1100lb must be solid as a rock. Like the double floor and low routing of the tiller.

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Ditch the outboard and go sailing! What a beauty! This is what day sailing should look like. Enjoy.

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xonk1 +1 no foils, no helmets...nice-a-boat!

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On 10/30/2019 at 2:51 PM, Dilligaf0220 said:

For some reason can't edit the above post.

 

$_59.JPG

$_59.JPG

$_59.JPG

That’s a sweet boat, or rather concept for a boat. 1100 pounds is far too heavy for it though, and in addition to hindering the performance potential, makes the boat a lot less practical for what it appears to be ideally suited for: messing about in boats.  You could easily shave the weight down to 200-300 lbs.  

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1 hour ago, eliboat said:
On 10/30/2019 at 2:51 PM, Dilligaf0220 said:

$_59.JPG

That’s a sweet boat, or rather concept for a boat. 1100 pounds is far too heavy for it though, and in addition to hindering the performance potential, makes the boat a lot less practical for what it appears to be ideally suited for: messing about in boats.  You could easily shave the weight down to 200-300 lbs.  

 

I wonder if the 1100 lbs is supposed to be the sailing weight, not the curb weight; also if it includes some ballast. This is a fairly tender hull form, and it's the kind of boat that appeals to people who aren't interested in capsize drill

A beauty, though! I can picture it sitting in the creek behind our house.........

FB- Doug

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

I wonder if the 1100 lbs is supposed to be the sailing weight, not the curb weight; also if it includes some ballast. This is a fairly tender hull form, and it's the kind of boat that appeals to people who aren't interested in capsize drill

A beauty, though! I can picture it sitting in the creek behind our house.........

FB- Doug

All up boat weight, including 500lbs of ballast, so yeah even with 150sq/ft of mainsail no hiking straps required.

Mark Ellis designed it as a baby Nonsuch for his grandkids to day sail the Great Lakes.  Stiff, self bailing & self righting. There are only about 16 floating about, resale stays high and owners tend to take care of them.

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Got to thinking...boat is surly a comfort rig, like a Scot...

But am thinking the Wylie 17 is better for the buck...if you can find one....which I have not been able to do...and I have tried...and, as long as we are at it...what is it that makes some really well designed mfg'd boats sink in popularity? (Rhetorical)

Dex is "well healed."

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Yeah, diff spelling intended. Dex knows his flotsam and jetsam... : ]

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Bandit15.  I want one. 
I want to pull a mold off the hull, modify the deck to self bailing and super comfy for gentle hiking, build a deck mold, pop out a proTotype and start messing with sailplans and rigging. 
 

if you know of one whose hull is not bent from trailering for forty years and i

might be able to get to Texas without spending a fortune, please send me contact details. 

 

129779F9-C986-4828-8E5F-CD4364785E77.jpeg

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19 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Bandit15.  I want one. 
I want to pull a mold off the hull, modify the deck to self bailing and super comfy for gentle hiking, build a deck mold, pop out a proTotype and start messing with sailplans and rigging. 
 

if you know of one whose hull is not bent from trailering for forty years and i

might be able to get to Texas without spending a fortune, please send me contact details. 

 

129779F9-C986-4828-8E5F-CD4364785E77.jpeg

Sounds like a fun project/challenge for the Craigslist crew

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That was quick. I'll give $100 to the kickstarter campaign.

If only 1000 more people do that we can be sure Gouv dies broke and alone with a semi-complete project.

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Wish I could help with the logistics but the truck is full. I just booked a Uhaul to move two hard bottom inflatables from the Northeast (Cape Cod and Long Island) to Park City with one inside of the Uhaul.  If I had room I'd offer to at least get it here.

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Thanks @WCB!!!  I sent a note to the seller briefly explaining who I am and my fantasy for his boat. 
 

my fantasy?? There really isn’t a 2020 boat standing on the shoulders of and filling the market which has been somewhat but never really served correctly in the past by:

Mutineers

Galilee 15

precision 16

Blue Jay

Bandit 15

Pintail

Harpoon 5.2

And a few others.

    I think an entry level two regular sized person boat that is easy to maintain and comfortable to Sail is missing.

I think  lots of folks can not afford a keelboat but could easily afford a brand new two person trailerable boat.

flying Scots are just too big and expensive  fit my fantasy market. 
 

none of the  listed  boats  above really sails quite well enough 

So... I have this set of ideas that goes from taking a while to build molds and fiddle
with prototypes

to building a few of the “final product.”

to selling a dozen or two. ( that two could represent 2 or 24)

To developing a local fleet

to making seed boats for markets around the country

to generally creating a national fleet

to going interplanetary 

 

Right now I just want to make one boat and see if I can make it do what I want it to do.

step two would  be to send others out to try it out.

i am a long long way from saying to anybody, “I think I have the perfect boat for you.”

Last.... back in 1974 I was absolutely furious we started selling the Bandit 15 before we had created the right deck shape, the right  set of laminates and the right rigging. EVERYTHING was less than right and Dick Gibbs locked it in place and started production. I stormed out and went to work in the powerboat division. They absolutely wasted McAlpine-Downey’s brilliant design. 
 

The only way to find out if I have been right for forty five years is to build ONE boat. If it works I might build another 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Thanks @WCB!!!  I sent a note to the seller briefly explaining who I am and my fantasy for his boat. 
 

my fantasy?? There really isn’t a 2020 boat standing on the shoulders of and filling the market which has been somewhat but never really served correctly in the past by:

Mutineers

Galilee 15

precision 16

Blue Jay

Bandit 15

Pintail

Harpoon 5.2

And a few others.

    I think an entry level two regular sized person boat that is easy to maintain and comfortable to Sail is missing.

I think  lots of folks can not afford a keelboat but could easily afford a brand new two person trailerable boat.

flying Scots are just too big and expensive  fit my fantasy market. 
 

none of the  listed  boats  above really sails quite well enough 

So... I have this set of ideas that goes from taking a while to build molds and fiddle
with prototypes

to building a few of the “final product.”

to selling a dozen or two. ( that two could represent 2 or 24)

To developing a local fleet

to making seed boats for markets around the country

to generally creating a national fleet

to going interplanetary 

 

Right now I just want to make one boat and see if I can make it do what I want it to do.

step two would  be to send others out to try it out.

i am a long long way from saying to anybody, “I think I have the perfect boat for you.”

Last.... back in 1974 I was absolutely furious we started selling the Bandit 15 before we had created the right deck shape, the right  set of laminates and the right rigging. EVERYTHING was less than right and Dick Gibbs locked it in place and started production. I stormed out and went to work in the powerboat division. They absolutely wasted McAlpine-Downey’s brilliant design. 
 

The only way to find out if I have been right for forty five years is to build ONE boat. If it works I might build another 

 

 

My mother-in-law lives in Canandaigua where that Bandit 15 is located but she's not much of a boat person.  I could always ask her to go take a look at it for you but I think that's possibly a waste of your time.

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Mostly, this is about generating enough spare change to try my idiot idea.

FYI: the advertiser hasn’t answered yet

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"They absolutely wasted Alpine-Downey’s brilliant design." - Gouvernail

Gotta spread the blame around. And we all wonder why "sailing" has remained more or less a victim of its very own jetsam.

Let me know where to send it?

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

Mostly, this is about generating enough spare change to try my idiot idea.

FYI: the advertiser hasn’t answered yet

Simple honesty...dig it!

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@Gouvernail why not start a GoFundMe?  If Dex and BobBill are willing to put a little money towards your project, maybe many of us will.  We could ask the Ed to put it on the front page for a bit.  You could call it, "righting some wrongs" or something to that effect.  

I built a couple of 505s and it still eats at me that I didn't do what I truly wanted to do with the 505 class.  I still believe that with some cash, I'd sit down with top US 505 sailors, dial in the hull shape and cockpit layout, CNC a new set of plugs, and build some great modern 505s here in the US. I just need...money.  I spent a lot of savings re-doing old Ballenger molds and almost did the same to the Lindsay molds before I pulled the plug.

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Hey guys..  I appreciate the support but what I meant was;

i need to get off my ass.
Step away from the keyboard 

and

go fix some boats so I can pile up some cash and free time so I can mess with fantasy stuff 

***+
one extra paint-job while fixing my own lunches rather than buying it somewhere should fund my purchase and trip.

so mostly... if I really want to do it... all I gotta do is focus and do it 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, WCB said:

@Gouvernail why not start a GoFundMe?  If Dex and BobBill are willing to put a little money towards your project, maybe many of us will.  We could ask the Ed to put it on the front page for a bit.  You could call it, "righting some wrongs" or something to that effect.  

I built a couple of 505s and it still eats at me that I didn't do what I truly wanted to do with the 505 class.  I still believe that with some cash, I'd sit down with top US 505 sailors, dial in the hull shape and cockpit layout, CNC a new set of plugs, and build some great modern 505s here in the US. I just need...money.  I spent a lot of savings re-doing old Ballenger molds and almost did the same to the Lindsay molds before I pulled the plug.

You might notice a lot of similarity between a Bandit 15 and a 505. The original wood prototype Bandit 15, built in England, was a rocket ship. McAlpine Downey told me he had paced with his friends who had a 505 and they couldn’t decide who was faster in light and medium breeze. The Bandit didn’t have a trapeze so it couldn’t hang upwind in a blow but he said it was faster off the wind. 
    I took the prototype for a joyride while a Big Thistle regatta was going on at Erie Yacht club and started well beyond the pin to stay out of the way. The boat was lots quicker than the Thistles, I think, but I didn’t really get close enough to truly test anything. 
   The MFG fiberglass version weighed about 200 pounds more, had shit for brains rigging, and the sails would have had to improve a lot to suck. 
my fantasy is NOT to build a 595 beater. 
 

let me use the 505 to explain:

if you took all the fancy rigging and Trapeze off a 505, snd built it a little heavier with a little less Sail it would be a fabulous easy to handle daysailor. 
 

also... we took all the rigging off a Dutchman once and made a great go for rides toy. It still hailed ass in a blow and it was big roomy and comfy when the wind let up. . 
 

that is where my fantasy goes 

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3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

You might notice a lot of similarity between a Bandit 15 and a 505. The original wood prototype Bandit 15, built in England, was a rocket ship. McAlpine Downey told me he had paced with his friends who had a 505 and they couldn’t decide who was faster in light and medium breeze. The Bandit didn’t have a trapeze so it couldn’t hang upwind in a blow but he said it was faster off the wind. 
    I took the prototype for a joyride while a Big Thistle regatta was going on at Erie Yacht club and started well beyond the pin to stay out of the way. The boat was lots quicker than the Thistles, I think, but I didn’t really get close enough to truly test anything. 
   The MFG fiberglass version weighed about 200 pounds more, had shit for brains rigging, and the sails would have had to improve a lot to suck. 
my fantasy is NOT to build a 595 beater. 
 

let me use the 505 to explain:

if you took all the fancy rigging and Trapeze off a 505, snd built it a little heavier with a little less Sail it would be a fabulous easy to handle daysailor. 
 

also... we took all the rigging off a Dutchman once and made a great go for rides toy. It still hailed ass in a blow and it was big roomy and comfy when the wind let up. . 
 

that is where my fantasy goes 

I like it.  It would be nice to see a boat with such a nice hull shape, get a lot closer to the proper reality for it.

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19 hours ago, WCB said:

@Gouvernail why not start a GoFundMe?  If Dex and BobBill are willing to put a little money towards your project, maybe many of us will.  We could ask the Ed to put it on the front page for a bit.  You could call it, "righting some wrongs" or something to that effect.  

I built a couple of 505s and it still eats at me that I didn't do what I truly wanted to do with the 505 class.  I still believe that with some cash, I'd sit down with top US 505 sailors, dial in the hull shape and cockpit layout, CNC a new set of plugs, and build some great modern 505s here in the US. I just need...money.  I spent a lot of savings re-doing old Ballenger molds and almost did the same to the Lindsay molds before I pulled the plug.

Rod M-D, was genius...had a few lingering successes...used to be a Shark in slip up north a ways I used to drool over...so giving a few $coots to Gouv makes more sense than most things...

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16 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

You might notice a lot of similarity between a Bandit 15 and a 505. The original wood prototype Bandit 15, built in England, was a rocket ship. McAlpine Downey told me he had paced with his friends who had a 505 and they couldn’t decide who was faster in light and medium breeze. The Bandit didn’t have a trapeze so it couldn’t hang upwind in a blow but he said it was faster off the wind. 
    I took the prototype for a joyride while a Big Thistle regatta was going on at Erie Yacht club and started well beyond the pin to stay out of the way. The boat was lots quicker than the Thistles, I think, but I didn’t really get close enough to truly test anything. 
   The MFG fiberglass version weighed about 200 pounds more, had shit for brains rigging, and the sails would have had to improve a lot to suck. 
my fantasy is NOT to build a 595 beater. 
 

let me use the 505 to explain:

if you took all the fancy rigging and Trapeze off a 505, snd built it a little heavier with a little less Sail it would be a fabulous easy to handle daysailor. 
 

also... we took all the rigging off a Dutchman once and made a great go for rides toy. It still hailed ass in a blow and it was big roomy and comfy when the wind let up. . 
 

that is where my fantasy goes 

Vanguard built a daysailorized FD, it was called the Volante. Pretty and fun boat, I've kept my eye open for one on Craigslist but only seen a couple.

The 5O5 is another great idea; the youth sailing group I work with was donated two 5O5s and the first one, which was in decent shape but a bit tired, we rebuilt with simplified controls. Ali Meller helped me devise the system for it, but the biggest improvement was shortening the mainsail to get the boom up out of the cockpit. This boat was a fabulous cure for jaded kids bored with FJs/420s.

It would be great to put a bunch of 5O5s into the sport into the hands of good younger sailors. Most older 5O5s are strongly built and if the spars are sound, they can be done up similarly. However it's a very powerful rig and you need a a lot of purchase on some of the controls.

I always liked the looks of the Whip, as well as the Bandit.

FB- Doug

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On 11/6/2019 at 6:59 PM, Gouvernail said:

Thanks @WCB!!!  I sent a note to the seller briefly explaining who I am and my fantasy for his boat. 
 

my fantasy?? There really isn’t a 2020 boat standing on the shoulders of and filling the market which has been somewhat but never really served correctly in the past by:

Mutineers

Galilee 15

precision 16

Blue Jay

Bandit 15

Pintail

Harpoon 5.2

And a few others.

    I think an entry level two regular sized person boat that is easy to maintain and comfortable to Sail is missing.

I think  lots of folks can not afford a keelboat but could easily afford a brand new two person trailerable boat.

flying Scots are just too big and expensive  fit my fantasy market. 
 

none of the  listed  boats  above really sails quite well enough 

So... I have this set of ideas that goes from taking a while to build molds and fiddle
with prototypes

to building a few of the “final product.”

to selling a dozen or two. ( that two could represent 2 or 24)

To developing a local fleet

to making seed boats for markets around the country

to generally creating a national fleet

to going interplanetary 

 

Right now I just want to make one boat and see if I can make it do what I want it to do.

step two would  be to send others out to try it out.

i am a long long way from saying to anybody, “I think I have the perfect boat for you.”

Last.... back in 1974 I was absolutely furious we started selling the Bandit 15 before we had created the right deck shape, the right  set of laminates and the right rigging. EVERYTHING was less than right and Dick Gibbs locked it in place and started production. I stormed out and went to work in the powerboat division. They absolutely wasted McAlpine-Downey’s brilliant design. 
 

The only way to find out if I have been right for forty five years is to build ONE boat. If it works I might build another 

 

 

How about the RS Quest or Feva? I haven't had a chance to try them, but from the spec, it looks like they fit your program. I've been fantasizing about my club being able to buy a couple and start a fleet.

Blaise

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Gouv, seems some very decent rigs were ruin by corporate lassitude and greed...

Making a right for all purposes ain't easy, but if there is a market, am certain you will find it...

 

I gave up and made an outrigger, looking for best of C-boarders, keelers and cats. Tried to locate a decent Wyliecat 17-tralered keeler/, unstayed carbon mast, but could not, so I grabbed some plans and found scrapped hulls...and recycled them. Still messing with 'em, sort of a boat of dreams, but experimented and smiled.

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Flying Dutchman $1.99 starting bid on Ebay but this seller throws on some big fees.  Benefits charity though!

Cheapy Flying Dutchman in Indiana

 

Screen Shot 2019-11-10 at 5.23.29 PM.png

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1 hour ago, Dex Sawash said:

Good deal on Sailors Tailor cover set

Good point. Probably the best part of that deal.

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Anybody know anything, got experience with, a Helsen Streaker? Appears to be a fairly nice conventional 20-ish ft daysailer with a cuddy.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/81412

Not craigslist, sorry.

image.png.5391595e2c122e1b3580d75448c85fc0.png

This is from a different ad for a Streaker, the cuddy lid appears to be hinged. The hull also looks like a nice shape, similar to the older Paceship Mouette?

I've sailed a bigger Helsen, they were fairly nice/solid boats.

FB- Doug

 

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What's this. On UK facebook group "Like a big Laser" made by Vanguard the ad says

73513473_10157015900145432_157759530376101888_o.jpg

73539171_10157015900270432_6808535887383625728_o.jpg

75316001_10157015900220432_3989479990361063424_o.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Dart96 said:

What's this. On UK facebook group "Like a big Laser" made by Vanguard the ad says

73513473_10157015900145432_157759530376101888_o.jpg

73539171_10157015900270432_6808535887383625728_o.jpg

75316001_10157015900220432_3989479990361063424_o.jpg

Looks like vanguard 15

 

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4 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

Very sad:  Used 6 times. " The only reason for selling is that I had a complete hip replacement and my hiking days are behind me. "

Like the "go simple, go small, go now" thread, a reminder to enjoy what you can while you can.

 

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On 11/14/2019 at 2:25 PM, Dart96 said:

What's this. On UK facebook group "Like a big Laser" made by Vanguard the ad says

73513473_10157015900145432_157759530376101888_o.jpg

73539171_10157015900270432_6808535887383625728_o.jpg

75316001_10157015900220432_3989479990361063424_o.jpg

Vanguard 15, fuckers are fast and light, quite fragile. Check the trunk for damage, especially the aft end if it was run aground at speed. It would suck to have a leaky one. 

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8 hours ago, Frumious Bandersnatch said:

Vanguard 15, fuckers are fast and light, quite fragile. Check the trunk for damage, especially the aft end if it was run aground at speed. It would suck to have a leaky one. 

it may be leaky already since it has an inspection port on the deck

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