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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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Craigslist Finds

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The windmill is just too far away. A deceased dear old friend left his prize windmill to rot and if not for the distance the started project would be cool enough to justify finishing this hull and moving the parts

Edited two days later, original post deleted, because it read very wrong
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May have hit the mother load with this one... You're welcome.

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/5460063893.html

 

 

....wow,,,an interesting project ....

''This is an FD with a longer bow fitted to it. The bow is glued only in key areas so it can be easily removed to make the boat an FD again.''

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Here is a dinghy with a windsurf sail rig, haven't seen this before. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/boa/5426212363.html

 

00C0C_6rUkGHfT5jc_600x450.jpg

seen a few of these lying around boatyards.... they're pretty much all in the condition seen above...Kind of like the looks kind of like a predecesor to the O'pen bic

That is an X3: http://sailextreme.com

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Here is a dinghy with a windsurf sail rig, haven't seen this before. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/boa/5426212363.html

 

00C0C_6rUkGHfT5jc_600x450.jpg

seen a few of these lying around boatyards.... they're pretty much all in the condition seen above...Kind of like the looks kind of like a predecesor to the O'pen bic

That is an X3: http://sailextreme.com

 

 

Wow it really carries some sail if you want to.

So how do you excite the nippers ? :)

 

Excite the Nippers, and go sailing. Being out on the water is fun and exciting. The X3 sailing dinghy is a great family FUN machine.

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May have hit the mother load with this one... You're welcome.

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/5460063893.html

 

 

....wow,,,an interesting project ....

''This is an FD with a longer bow fitted to it. The bow is glued only in key areas so it can be easily removed to make the boat an FD again.''

 

 

The idea of such a modification sounds terrible, but it actually came out quite OK - only judging from this picture

 

post-3441-0-33054900-1456211203_thumb.jpg

 

By the way: they are using a tornado mainsail.

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Not on Craigslist but here's a find

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Melges-E-Scow-Sailboat-w-Trailer-Ridgeland-MS-NO-FEES-NO-RESERVE-/262302924686?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d1278ff8e:g:Ef0AAOSwDuJWy29p&item=262302924686

 

Assuming you would need to buy a fair amount of rigging and scratch up some sails, the price is still a bit high. But it's a good start

 

 

Then there's this one... probably in the same parking lot

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Irwin-Mini-Ton-Sailboat-w-Trailer-Ridgeland-MS-NO-FEES-NO-RESERVE-/262302899397?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d12789cc5:g:br4AAOSwPc9Wy2lM&item=262302899397

 

Interesting little boat but obviously needs almost everything. Trailer looks pretty good though

FB- Doug

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Scow and mini ton:

37 year old garbage sitting on trailers whose frames and axles could have potential use.

If I lived within 50 miles I would check out those trailers

And if I bought either would simply stop by the dump on the way home to get rid of the garbage sitting on it.

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Not on Craigslist but here's a find

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Melges-E-Scow-Sailboat-w-Trailer-Ridgeland-MS-NO-FEES-NO-RESERVE-/262302924686?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d1278ff8e:g:Ef0AAOSwDuJWy29p&item=262302924686

 

Assuming you would need to buy a fair amount of rigging and scratch up some sails, the price is still a bit high. But it's a good start

 

 

Then there's this one... probably in the same parking lot

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Irwin-Mini-Ton-Sailboat-w-Trailer-Ridgeland-MS-NO-FEES-NO-RESERVE-/262302899397?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d12789cc5:g:br4AAOSwPc9Wy2lM&item=262302899397

 

Interesting little boat but obviously needs almost everything. Trailer looks pretty good though

 

FB- Doug

OH Rodgers designed the Irwin Mini-ton when he worked for Ted. Sails nicely, but not particularly fast. PHRF probably about 222 or so...faster than a Catalina 22, slower than a Lindenburg 22.

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Now THERE is an ad chock-full of information !

 

I've never even heard of the Volant - doesn't look terrible...trailer is worth nearly his asking.

 

The Volant is an FD hull minus the back 1' or so, and a simpler daysailer rig. Decked over, bench seats, IIRC it's not quite self-bailing but very nearly so. Great boat, didn't catch on, I'd buy this one myself if it were closer to me.

 

There actually was one for sail in Virginia last year but the guy wanted $4k for it on a crap trailer and OEM running rigging & sails. At least, that trailer looks good (might even be galvanized) and there is enough rigging that the mast can stand up.

 

FB- Doug

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Vintage Lazy E http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/boa/5466705862.html

 

"It embodies the experience gained from his earlier successes, the GP14 and the Enterprise. It has been said the National E “combines the virtues of both, the vices of neither, and far better performance than both”. Over 560 sail numbers have been issued to date in Australia."

http://www.nationale.org.au/wp/national-e-2/history-2/

 

I have only seen a couple boats before :)

00W0W_kvH6QwJpxPh_600x450.jpg

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Reckon that 49er will give you some competition on your IC hotrod??

B)

 

Here's a couple of finds, not in jest

 

Holder 20 near Philly

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/boa/5482180800.html

 

This one is near some family I should go visit anyway... pick up a nice little boat & trailer?!?

https://york.craigslist.org/boa/5484142672.html

 

Then there's this one, big-time orphan but hey it's on a workable trailer and it seems likely to actually -sail-... and $200 ???

https://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/5477986203.html

 

FB- Doug

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I think it is a Glen L 10. Kit boats you order out of a catalogue. And a good 'ol removable keel....

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Alright then. Just putting this out there. Happy to delete it if inappropriate. Thanks for looking

 

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bpo/5511025716.html

29erXX Complete Rig / Sails - Conversion Kit for 29er + Extras

00c0c_et7hB6Z4MN1_600x450.jpg

 

PS. The first photo in the CL ad of the rigged & on the water boat is not mine. Its put in there to let CL folk know what this looks like when rigged.

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Bargain 5O5 $1300

 

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/5508189495.html

 

Should be plenty fun on the water for low coin.

 

But if you can't spare the thirteen hundred, how about a $600 Vanguard 470?

 

https://york.craigslist.org/boa/5492458928.html

 

Trailer does not look good but if it's got all the pieces, this could provide a lot of fun too.

 

I just bought a $850 Buccaneer so I am going to be sidelined from the ad-hunting game... for a while, anyway

 

FB- Doug

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How about a Star in California, currently at $10.75 plus a $300 processing fee (ouch). Do I get penalty points for posting a keel boat in DA?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-Gerard-Star-23-Sailboat-Trailer-California-/351693636866?forcerrptr=true&hash=item51e2930502:g:t5EAAOSwxcRW~XHF&item=351693636866

I bought a boat from boatangels on eBay a long time ago when their processing fee was around $100. Good seller, they fedexed the paperwork immediately and it was all in order. Would bang again. I have them set up as a favorite seller so I get an email with all their auction listings.

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re the star in california,

 

What's going on in the 4th picture? Seems to show a big cutout in the front side of the mast? What is all the white stuff, electrolysis from SS and aluminium?

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How about a Star in California, currently at $10.75 plus a $300 processing fee (ouch). Do I get penalty points for posting a keel boat in DA?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-Gerard-Star-23-Sailboat-Trailer-California-/351693636866?forcerrptr=true&hash=item51e2930502:g:t5EAAOSwxcRW~XHF&item=351693636866

I bought a boat from boatangels on eBay a long time ago when their processing fee was around $100. Good seller, they fedexed the paperwork immediately and it was all in order. Would bang again. I have them set up as a favorite seller so I get an email with all their auction listings.

 

Same here. My brother bought a Rhodes 19 from them for $12.50 plus fees and then donated it to our sailing program in Park City, Utah. It should be our best boat after it gets a frame job over the next 2-3 weeks.

re the star in california,

 

What's going on in the 4th picture? Seems to show a big cutout in the front side of the mast? What is all the white stuff, electrolysis from SS and aluminium?

I think Longy is correct, it's the botched main halyard lock. I think this boat would need a new mast.

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Alright then. Just putting this out there. Happy to delete it if inappropriate. Thanks for looking

 

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bpo/5511025716.html

29erXX Complete Rig / Sails - Conversion Kit for 29er + Extras

00c0c_et7hB6Z4MN1_600x450.jpg

 

PS. The first photo in the CL ad of the rigged & on the water boat is not mine. Its put in there to let CL folk know what this looks like when rigged.

I sailed on one of them in Aus for about a year when I was 16. Best thing I ever did, made the 29er into a really really nice boat. Upwind speed on flat water was amazing, still good downwind. Shame they didn't catch on

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Possibly the main halyard lock

that's the best guess. Must be a pretty old system.

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Bargain 5O5 $1300

 

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/5508189495.html

 

Should be plenty fun on the water for low coin.

 

But if you can't spare the thirteen hundred, how about a $600 Vanguard 470?

 

https://york.craigslist.org/boa/5492458928.html

 

Trailer does not look good but if it's got all the pieces, this could provide a lot of fun too.

 

I just bought a $850 Buccaneer so I am going to be sidelined from the ad-hunting game... for a while, anyway

 

FB- Doug

 

I just put a 470 of the same vintage in the hole...RIP

 

salvaged the rig to put on my next freakboat.

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Bargain 5O5 $1300

 

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/5508189495.html

 

Should be plenty fun on the water for low coin.

 

But if you can't spare the thirteen hundred, how about a $600 Vanguard 470?

 

https://york.craigslist.org/boa/5492458928.html

 

Trailer does not look good but if it's got all the pieces, this could provide a lot of fun too.

 

I just bought a $850 Buccaneer so I am going to be sidelined from the ad-hunting game... for a while, anyway

 

FB- Doug

 

I just put a 470 of the same vintage in the hole...RIP

 

salvaged the rig to put on my next freakboat.

 

 

Is it the Elvstrom flat-tip mast? I broke a bunch of those back in my 470ing career.

 

It must "470 Week" on Craigslist, or something

 

SAILBOAT VANGUARD 470 - $550 (St Augustine Fla)

https://staugustine.craigslist.org/boa/5519139280.html

 

Vanguard International 470 sailboat - $1950 (nashua NH)

http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/5512649683.html

 

 

Dunno why this one says "Vanguard" when the photo of the nameplate in the ad says "Luger" (never heard of them, but the rig looks like the Needlespar which would be the best one to carry over into a Frankenboat imho)

470 VanGuard SailBoat - $600 (Stewartstown Pa.)

https://york.craigslist.org/boa/5492458928.html

 

To be honest, none of the above boats look like that good of a deal. Just sayin'

 

FB- Doug

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Bargain 5O5 $1300

 

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/5508189495.html

 

Should be plenty fun on the water for low coin.

 

But if you can't spare the thirteen hundred, how about a $600 Vanguard 470?

 

https://york.craigslist.org/boa/5492458928.html

 

Trailer does not look good but if it's got all the pieces, this could provide a lot of fun too.

 

I just bought a $850 Buccaneer so I am going to be sidelined from the ad-hunting game... for a while, anyway

 

FB- Doug

I just put a 470 of the same vintage in the hole...RIP

 

salvaged the rig to put on my next freakboat.

Is it the Elvstrom flat-tip mast? I broke a bunch of those back in my 470ing career.

 

It must "470 Week" on Craigslist, or something

SAILBOAT VANGUARD 470 - $550 (St Augustine Fla)

https://staugustine.craigslist.org/boa/5519139280.html

Vanguard International 470 sailboat - $1950 (nashua NH)

http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/5512649683.html

 

 

Dunno why this one says "Vanguard" when the photo of the nameplate in the ad says "Luger" (never heard of them, but the rig looks like the Needlespar which would be the best one to carry over into a Frankenboat imho) 470 VanGuard SailBoat - $600 (Stewartstown Pa.)

https://york.craigslist.org/boa/5492458928.html

 

To be honest, none of the above boats look like that good of a deal. Just sayin'

 

FB- Doug

I believe Luger is the trailer manufacturer.

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Luger, as a brand, has made appearances in the mocking craigslist thread in CA

IMG_1942.JPG

 

I'm glad this isn't the mocking thread. That boat would get a double dose.

 

oops did I really say that, sorry it just slipped out

:unsure:

 

FB- Doug

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I don't get it. What's wrong w/ that sailboat?

That 470 is a Vanguard. And it is really old. And probably soft. And way overpriced. Maybe $300...

Luger, well, you can look them up. They weren't Hinckley.

$1950 for a 1973 470 is ridiculously over priced. I'd say $500 if it's got a decent trailer and hasn't been hacked up. They do make a fun Daysailer.

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$300 FD....

 

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/boa/5427371887.html

 

00e0e_846Qkwv4WKo_600x450.jpg

 

looks a bit rough around the edges...but cheap fun...

 

Justin..is this near you?

 

Well folks...don't know if this was a good plan or not, as I need another project almost as much as I need a second asshole, but I figured I should share that this POS came home with me this weekend... Thanks to help from this group for inspiring me & special help from Justin for picking the boat up & helping me get the whole rig, broken trailer and all loaded.

 

Now it sits in my driveway encouraging me to finish other projects so that my wife will not notice that I'm really working on the FD.

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$300 FD....

 

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/boa/5427371887.html

 

00e0e_846Qkwv4WKo_600x450.jpg

 

looks a bit rough around the edges...but cheap fun...

 

Justin..is this near you?

 

Well folks...don't know if this was a good plan or not, as I need another project almost as much as I need a second asshole, but I figured I should share that this POS came home with me this weekend... Thanks to help from this group for inspiring me & special help from Justin for picking the boat up & helping me get the whole rig, broken trailer and all loaded.

 

Now it sits in my driveway encouraging me to finish other projects so that my wife will not notice that I'm really working on the FD.

 

 

Congrats! I actually picked up an old beater FD myself a while back, haven't sailed it yet.

 

We all need more projects, keeps the landfills from overflowing

 

FB- Doug

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$300 FD....

 

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/boa/5427371887.html

 

00e0e_846Qkwv4WKo_600x450.jpg

 

looks a bit rough around the edges...but cheap fun...

 

Justin..is this near you?

Well folks...don't know if this was a good plan or not, as I need another project almost as much as I need a second asshole, but I figured I should share that this POS came home with me this weekend... Thanks to help from this group for inspiring me & special help from Justin for picking the boat up & helping me get the whole rig, broken trailer and all loaded.

 

Now it sits in my driveway encouraging me to finish other projects so that my wife will not notice that I'm really working on the FD.

Well done!

Let's hope you sail before you sell!

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$300 FD....

 

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/boa/5427371887.html

 

00e0e_846Qkwv4WKo_600x450.jpg

 

looks a bit rough around the edges...but cheap fun...

 

Justin..is this near you?

Well folks...don't know if this was a good plan or not, as I need another project almost as much as I need a second asshole, but I figured I should share that this POS came home with me this weekend... Thanks to help from this group for inspiring me & special help from Justin for picking the boat up & helping me get the whole rig, broken trailer and all loaded.

 

Now it sits in my driveway encouraging me to finish other projects so that my wife will not notice that I'm really working on the FD.

Well done!

Let's hope you sail before you sell!

 

the only way I'm selling this is if I find a better one for too little money to pass up...otherwise I'll plug away on this until my grave.

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Welcome to the classic FD club. My wife named my boat Distraction because I spent a fair bit of time fussing with it instead of other chores.

Only boat in my small fleet I'm enamored with.

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the one in CT has a winch?????

 

More seriously though I know of at least 2 people in Watertribe who have bought FDs for the purpose of re rigging them for the EC. One guy even wants to do a cat-ketch!

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the one in CT has a winch?????

 

More seriously though I know of at least 2 people in Watertribe who have bought FDs for the purpose of re rigging them for the EC. One guy even wants to do a cat-ketch!

Before ratchet blocks were invented, a lot of dinghies used snubbing winches for the jib sheets. No handle, just put a couple wraps on and pull.

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It must be springtime as the FDs are everywhere! At least there is likely one close to anybody who wants one. This one in Tennessee.

 

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/boa/5478485401.html

 

That one is a beauty, and it is indeed 'ready-to-sail' although it's not competitive with a modern FD. Or at least, it was last year. The reason I didn't buy it is personal, I don't want to be "that guy who ruined that boat."

 

The one is Connecticut looks like it should be another $300 special.

 

 

the one in CT has a winch?????

 

More seriously though I know of at least 2 people in Watertribe who have bought FDs for the purpose of re rigging them for the EC. One guy even wants to do a cat-ketch!

Before ratchet blocks were invented, a lot of dinghies used snubbing winches for the jib sheets. No handle, just put a couple wraps on and pull.

 

 

Zackly. Best available technology back in the day. Miter cut sails of Egyptian cotton, 3-strand line, yeah I miss the good ole days... :mellow:

 

Making a cat-ketch out of a Dutchman will be an interesting experiment. One of the boat's strengths IMHO is that it can be made into a rowing mo-fo. All-around sailing speed, blast reaching, and shallow water capability should complete the package. I still think that Spawn has more of all-the-above except rowing ability.

 

FB- Doug

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It must be springtime as the FDs are everywhere! At least there is likely one close to anybody who wants one. This one in Tennessee.

 

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/boa/5478485401.html

That one is a beauty, and it is indeed 'ready-to-sail' although it's not competitive with a modern FD. Or at least, it was last year. The reason I didn't buy it is personal, I don't want to be "that guy who ruined that boat."

 

The one is Connecticut looks like it should be another $300 special.

 

the one in CT has a winch?????

 

More seriously though I know of at least 2 people in Watertribe who have bought FDs for the purpose of re rigging them for the EC. One guy even wants to do a cat-ketch!

Before ratchet blocks were invented, a lot of dinghies used snubbing winches for the jib sheets. No handle, just put a couple wraps on and pull.

Zackly. Best available technology back in the day. Miter cut sails of Egyptian cotton, 3-strand line, yeah I miss the good ole days... :mellow:

 

Making a cat-ketch out of a Dutchman will be an interesting experiment. One of the boat's strengths IMHO is that it can be made into a rowing mo-fo. All-around sailing speed, blast reaching, and shallow water capability should complete the package. I still think that Spawn has more of all-the-above except rowing ability.

 

FB- Doug

FD is a good bit lighter than Spawn...maybe 2/3 weight. A little lass wetted surface too. Should row like a mofo. Important to use carbon sculls and sliding seat. Jeff sourced those from local rowing club, plus used their expertise on setting up (proper location important) and technique. Very valuable information.

Cat ketch rig would work, it does have some advantages. But you give up a lot of windward ability, and the ability to set a large kite. I would stick with sloop....proven rig in '14 and '16, top two positions both years (ignoring the Lightning's Opti mizzen in '14). Rig it skiff style... add a second set of swept back spreaders at hounds with masthead cap shrouds. Lowers to lower spreaders. Throw away Genoa, use a blade job on a furler. Square top main if concerned about losing the Genoa area. Have a screacher on furler tacked all the way on bow, hoist on masthead chute halyard...use that light air upwind and moderate air reaching in lieu of full sized assymetrical. Can also use wing and wing DDW. Racks are more comfortable for long periods of time than trapeze or hiking.

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It must be springtime as the FDs are everywhere! At least there is likely one close to anybody who wants one. This one in Tennessee.

 

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/boa/5478485401.html

This one would be great for a museum somewhere. Not to say it's not worth sailing again but it's quite a nice piece of furniture and the cost to get it sailing again far outweighs its performance potential.

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It must be springtime as the FDs are everywhere! At least there is likely one close to anybody who wants one. This one in Tennessee.

 

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/boa/5478485401.html

This one would be great for a museum somewhere. Not to say it's not worth sailing again but it's quite a nice piece of furniture and the cost to get it sailing again far outweighs its performance potential.

 

Holy shit! That is the exact boat that was in that horror movie! I was flabbergasted watching that once, holed up in a hotel room on a business trip. "Look--a Flying Dutchman! In a horror flick!"

 

Oh, so you're the guy who watched that movie!

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If that guy gets $1800 for the POS in Connecticut, I'm going to start advertising on their Craigslist!

 

I think they must have a different kind of money up there. When we're visiting I see some prices that I think are a little too much and some that are crazy.

 

 

 

 

How about a classic wood I14, pretty sweet!

 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/5534635706.html

Now that's cool!

 

 

Dunno what the Kirby 4 is like, it's a good-looking boat at least.

 

Years back, a friend picked up an I-14 from some time around 1960 and it was desperately tippy and impossible to steer. He quickly realized that Flying Scot sailing skills were totally inadeqaute... unfortunately too late, his fiancee was scared away from sailing forever by attempting to sail this boat.

 

There may be a lot of fun potential here, worth checking with somebody who knows more about I-14s specifically.

 

FB- Doug

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If that guy gets $1800 for the POS in Connecticut, I'm going to start advertising on their Craigslist!

 

I think they must have a different kind of money up there. When we're visiting I see some prices that I think are a little too much and some that are crazy.

 

 

 

 

How about a classic wood I14, pretty sweet!

 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/5534635706.html

Now that's cool!

 

 

Dunno what the Kirby 4 is like, it's a good-looking boat at least.

 

Years back, a friend picked up an I-14 from some time around 1960 and it was desperately tippy and impossible to steer. He quickly realized that Flying Scot sailing skills were totally inadeqaute... unfortunately too late, his fiancee was scared away from sailing forever by attempting to sail this boat.

 

There may be a lot of fun potential here, worth checking with somebody who knows more about I-14s specifically.

 

FB- Doug

 

problem is, I know way too much about I14s, and already have a small boat fleet including a modern 14. That little boat would be a stable platform compared to "Woody". I'd love to make that old Kirby all cleaned up and all but have no space or time.....

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If that guy gets $1800 for the POS in Connecticut, I'm going to start advertising on their Craigslist!

I think they must have a different kind of money up there. When we're visiting I see some prices that I think are a little too much and some that are crazy.

 

 

 

 

How about a classic wood I14, pretty sweet!

 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/5534635706.html

Now that's cool!

 

Dunno what the Kirby 4 is like, it's a good-looking boat at least.

 

Years back, a friend picked up an I-14 from some time around 1960 and it was desperately tippy and impossible to steer. He quickly realized that Flying Scot sailing skills were totally inadeqaute... unfortunately too late, his fiancee was scared away from sailing forever by attempting to sail this boat.

 

There may be a lot of fun potential here, worth checking with somebody who knows more about I-14s specifically.

 

FB- Doug

I can't claim any I-14 experience, but the Kirby designs had a pretty good reputation AFAIK.

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That boat was built by Bill McCutcheon.

Of whom Bruce Kirby wrote:

"I never met the man, but as you know, he built many of my IVs and Vs and what beautiful boats they were. My go-between was always Pudders (ed note: Jeremy Pudney). I was in Cowes for several days in 2001 and did not realize Bill might have been there. Damn shame. It's amazing how the building of dinghies has changed in the past 50 years. To think that something as boring as fiberglass in its many forms could take over from the beauty of a fine cold molded and varnished vessel. I should talk, as I designed the first fiberglass 14 with my Mk. 1, but then with the II, III, IV and V went to Souter and Bill for those who wanted beauty with their racing."

The IV and V were the Kirby designs done just before the Laser, so are really pretty sweet boats of the single wire 14 school. These 14s were never really THAT fast. They are slower than 505s of the same vintage and much slower than the modern 505 or 14, but they exude a certain vintage sports car style which is utterly romantic and captivating to a certain type. Like cigar smoke and single malt....

SHC

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I've sailed the MXRay. Not worth a grand to me - too small, much too heavy and a mast that is prone to breakage. They kinda suck - a good Laser is more fun.

 

Bingo.

 

Especially with no road trailer. I'd get a Force 5 long before I paid actual money for an MX-Ray

 

FB- Doug

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