WCB

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno if I'd call them "exciting performance" but a decent little boat. Doesn't look abused, on a good trailer. If I were closer, I'd pick it up.

As would I.  I looked at one "near" me a while ago, but it was too far gone and I have enough projects.  Pretty neat boats though, solid Fox design. 

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Have never had the pleasure, though I always wanted to, and still l think 110 is more fun...maybe 

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1 hour ago, jonnycat said:

As would I.  I looked at one "near" me a while ago, but it was too far gone and I have enough projects.  Pretty neat boats though, solid Fox design. 

 

1 hour ago, BobBill said:

Have never had the pleasure, though I always wanted to, and still l think 110 is more fun...maybe 

 

My main interest, and only experience, with the Oday Javelin is with a high school program. We have a fleet of 6 now, and they are great boats for teaching and group events. The thing I like about them is that they're responsive without being squirrelly or tippy (they are definitely NOT tippy). The students learn quickly because the boat lets you know when you do it right. It can hold 3 students and a coach, or be sailed by 2 students alone, or even singlehanded. I find them fun to sail and often do so singlehanded.

We have capsized them and they seem to have pretty good capsize behavior, in fact they're all but self-righting. We don't use them for regular capsize drill though. We used to have a fleet of FJs and used them, until a hurricane took them away and now we use a Laser.

I think a 110 is likely to be a lot more fun for most. A fixed keel could be a pretty serious liability around here, though.

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Schnappi said:

That was on craigslist or ebay forever a couple of years ago. Somewhere in New England I think. It would be cool-ish just ot mess around with. 

It's in Ohio as @Mike Hunt mentioned.  It has been for sale forever.  There are two I believe and I saw one of them at Lake Dillon a couple of years ago.  Super cool and I want it but talk about impractical. 

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2 hours ago, WCB said:
4 hours ago, Schnappi said:
4 hours ago, Mike Hunt said:

Not a dinghy but how in the hell does something like this end up in Cincinnati?!

 

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/88243

That was on craigslist or ebay forever a couple of years ago. Somewhere in New England I think. It would be cool-ish just ot mess around with. 

It's in Ohio as @Mike Hunt mentioned.  It has been for sale forever.  There are two I believe and I saw one of them at Lake Dillon a couple of years ago.  Super cool and I want it but talk about impractical.  

Well, if you're looking for something to step up to from a 110......

I would really hate to argue with a PHRF rating committee over something like this. Probably KILLS in light air windward-leewards and totally sucks for anything else. Or maybe not, how would it compare to say an Etchells? Other than being even more impractical............

FB- Doug

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10 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

I would really hate to argue with a PHRF rating committee over something like this. 

FB- Doug

Just use 1/3 of whatever the undisputed PHRF number for IACC boats is 

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21 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

Just use 1/3 of whatever the undisputed PHRF number for IACC boats is 

I don't think 'undisputed' and 'PHRF number' are generally supposed to be used in the same sentence.

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On 9/15/2020 at 9:22 AM, Mike Hunt said:

Not a dinghy but how in the hell does something like this end up in Cincinnati?!

 

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/88243

The owner of Strictly Sail has a reputation for buying interesting boats. Over the years his dealership and storage lots always have an array of hyper racing catamarans, skiffs and assorted odd craft. He picks them up for pennies on the dollar after they become obsolete or the racing body/series comes to an end. A benefit is that we get to see them out on the local lake on occasion. His Hobie 33 (he owned it for decades) is probably his most docile boat.

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Vanguard volants. 

https://houston.craigslist.org/boa/d/katy-vanguard-volant/7189885579.html

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/boa/d/pewaukee-1981-vanguard-volant-18-ft/7199816340.html

I had never heard of these. Most intriguing, the second one has a sticker labelled "Vanguard Pewaukee Wisconsin". @Dave Clark @Steve Clark: I thought that Vaguard was always based in RI. What's the story about the boats and the WI location?

Blaise

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17 minutes ago, bourdidn said:

Vanguard volants. 

https://houston.craigslist.org/boa/d/katy-vanguard-volant/7189885579.html

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/boa/d/pewaukee-1981-vanguard-volant-18-ft/7199816340.html

I had never heard of these. Most intriguing, the second one has a sticker labelled "Vanguard Pewaukee Wisconsin". @Dave Clark @Steve Clark: I thought that Vaguard was always based in RI. What's the story about the boats and the WI location?

Blaise

Looks like a 470 and a AMF Apollo had a baby?

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2 hours ago, bourdidn said:

Vanguard volants. 

https://houston.craigslist.org/boa/d/katy-vanguard-volant/7189885579.html

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/boa/d/pewaukee-1981-vanguard-volant-18-ft/7199816340.html

I had never heard of these. Most intriguing, the second one has a sticker labelled "Vanguard Pewaukee Wisconsin". @Dave Clark @Steve Clark: I thought that Vaguard was always based in RI. What's the story about the boats and the WI location?

Blaise

Pretty sure it's an FD minus about 2' of stern.

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Vanguard was the boat building side of Harken.  After having all the skin burned off their fingers by 470 International being unwilling to enforce the class rules prior to the 1984 Olympics. A long story, the upshot of which was that rather than building 200+ 470s a year, they built about 10.  Peter Olaf and Art had a very successful marine hardware business strapped to the side of a small smelly boat shop. They published that they were sick of it and were going to wind it down and or sell the assets.  At the time I was going through some changes.

My attempts to build small custom boats was failing. People liked what I was doing, but nobody spent any money buying boats from me. I was working with Bob Ames and Rod Mincher to design and build a better college dinghy.  As part of figuring out what that business was like, I called Peter Harken, and at the end of the conversation I understood that I was going to have to compete with Vanguard for every sale. It was a question of either killing them or buying them. The next day I started negotiations to buy the assets of Vanguard. I also recruited Chip Johns to run the business.

The tools moved east during the spring and summer of 1986.

I chose not to buy the Volant.  It was an interesting boat, but too complex and too expensive.   You could tell it was designed by Harken because it had about 700 blocks and cleats. There was no Volant class, so there was no pull from the market. I figured it would never volarie.  25 years later, when we were discussing the Performance Daysailer that would become the Nomad, I asked if the molds were still on the Avenue of Broken Dreams in Pewaukee. No dice, and I couldn’t find a used one either. I’m pretty sure the Nomad was a better boat for our purposes and the Volant would have taken serious rework to make it cost effective, but I considered it.

Oh and that better college dinghy, became the Vanguard 15.

SHC

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Damnit @Steve Clark you just ruined a perfectly good “who can make up the most foolish lie” contest. 
 

It was quite amusing until you so brutally killed it. 

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21 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Damnit @Steve Clark you just ruined a perfectly good “who can make up the most foolish lie” contest. 
 

It was quite amusing until you so brutally killed it. 

It’s a habit I have.

SHC

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29 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

It’s a habit I have.

SHC

But your best efforts and those of many others have been wasted trying to lend sense to Wess’ Laser builder thread. 
 

Damn!! Those guys love to fight 

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9 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

But your best efforts and those of many others have been wasted trying to lend sense to Wess’ Laser builder thread. 
 

Damn!! Those guys love to fight 

Conservative habits die hard.

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I have a butterfly in Chicago free to a good home.  Complete boat but needs pressure washing.  PM for details

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On 9/21/2020 at 4:26 PM, bourdidn said:

Vanguard volants. 

https://houston.craigslist.org/boa/d/katy-vanguard-volant/7189885579.html

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/boa/d/pewaukee-1981-vanguard-volant-18-ft/7199816340.html

I had never heard of these. Most intriguing, the second one has a sticker labelled "Vanguard Pewaukee Wisconsin". @Dave Clark @Steve Clark: I thought that Vaguard was always based in RI. What's the story about the boats and the WI location?

Blaise

I picked up a Volant (#69) a couple of years ago on craigslist in Minneapolis. Paid $500. It looked about like the Milwaukee one, but still had the trapeze rigged. After a good cleaning and some minor rigging repairs it was ready to go. It's been a blast. You can load it up with 4 adults and it still moves, or you can go out with a single crew on the wire and it planes upwind.

The launcher is nice, the vang and cunningham are kind of under-purchased, and the end-of-boom main sheet is a pain.

Very seaworthy boat, though. I taught kids and adults in them on Lake Michigan in Milwaukee in the 80s.

Mr. Clark is right to say it was too complex and uneconomical to be the all-around daysailor the Harkens meant it to be back in the day. Big thumbs up from me as a craigslist find though! Sure would be great if some more came to Minneapolis!

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Soling is a steal; If you have mooring on the hard and soft...which most, who do, have their own whatevers. 

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Am thinking SHC changed his infor and moved into the WH, accordingly...  :\

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Doug, his signature used to have different words...re floggings and morale...and I happened to figure he altered is all. Coulda been someone else...I fear.

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On 9/23/2020 at 11:51 AM, Dex Sawash said:

 

 

 

Thought I saw similar craft, but had a small sail...

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So, opinions on that transfusion for about 2500 w/trailer - new? Is that as good of a value as I think it is?

I may want a couple boats - it may not be worth my while to drive a small boat up and back to Sarasota every year. 

I also loved rowing out to my old mooring - so I'm tempted by a row/sail setup like the Bauer (?) made in St. Augustine or dyer. But...then the excitement of some of these that can plane! 

I have to keep reminding myself that I am in my late 60's. Then again, rowing may find me the fountain of youth. 

 

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Out of business - Westerly Rhode Island firm.....so us made and little rhoda....

"Designer: Robert (Rob) E. Darling III"

Oh, maybe they were in MA first - one of those small firms

Transfusion Boat Works is located in Ipswich, MA. Rob Darling designs and hand builds his boats, so (new) they are pricey for a daysailer, but they do draw a crowd when they show up at a race, parking lot or beach. They look fast on the trailer or the water.

They had a 15.5 which seems to have sold more....

https://www.sailingtexas.com/stransfusion155100.html

It does look fast - but the 5 foot draft may rule it out for me anyway unless it's adjustable or kick back. 

It does have that planing type bottom. 

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Seems like it's been there for awhile....

 

 

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https://providence.craigslist.org/boa/d/block-island-flying-dutchman-sailboat/7206979058.html

There's a sister listing for the plastrend in the background as well...but I like the Mader better so I am posting just that listing.

$1,200 seems a bit aggressive for this boat (no dolly or trailer, either) and it's located on Block Island so add a round trip out there to the cost.

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I know the family with the Dutchmen.  Really nice people.

The Mader needs more than a few coats of varnish, but is still probably a better place to start a FD restoration than almost all the other shit that has been posted. That is if the Hull laminate hasn't gone south.

SHC

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2003 Raider on Ebay with a buy it now price of $2,300.  I think that we've seen this boat before.

2003 Raider in Florida

Screen Shot 2020-10-08 at 10.12.18 AM.png

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This may be messed...re the Newport Finn...Newport made decent rigs, out of Va and CA and this one is ancient with wood mast, much like their KIte; but outrageously priced, IMO ... and dig the misplaced decimal... move to margin on left.

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Actually, if anyone has a nice Bruner Finn Mast, I might want it.

SHC

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On 10/19/2020 at 3:53 PM, Steve Clark said:

Actually, if anyone has a nice Bruner Finn Mast, I might want it.

SHC

I have a nice Bruder OK Dinghy mast (almost 50 years old now!)

I might still use it for something though. Probably too small for what you want anyway. Plus thousands of miles away.

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8 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Seconded

FB- Doug

+1 what I thought too.

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Fun boat. In flat water the fastest way upwind is with the bow buried all the way to the beams. 

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On 10/24/2020 at 2:28 AM, Jethrow said:

Looks a little "see through" in the cockpit floor area! :P

You are looking through the cockpit drains!

- Stumbling 

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Much much much better deal, if it's not too far away

https://nh.craigslist.org/boa/d/sanbornton-14-foot-sailboat-trailer/7214638308.html

14 Foot Sailboat & Trailer - $1,250 (Sanbornton)

image.png.f3e60349474229edf52f4e2f7085eac9.png

image.png.d19e596a0c8806909e5d1001e33c1aec.png

 

This is definitely NOT a "copy of a Flying Junior"

Looks familiar but I dunno what it is. Even for a grand+, if it's in as good a shape as the pics look, with a good sail, this seems like it would be a good deal

FB- Doug

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I would absolutely love to take it for a ride and determine whether I love it or am disappointed. 
 
it looks like it wastes a lot of its power on moving the weight of lots of unnecessary freeboard. 
 

on the other hand, it might be a dry ride that sails pretty well 

it looks comfortable and suitable for easy molding 

the generally convex shape of everything looks like simple fiberglass laminated could easily generate sufficient panel stiffness and create a durable toy. 
 

but... I remain concerned about What appears to be at least 50% of the boat having nothing to do with either displacing water or providing a place to sit. 
I wonder if that foot of height is necessary or contributes anything but cost and Inertia 

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On 10/24/2020 at 9:11 AM, Doug Halsey said:

These 2 photos from that listing can't be the same boat, can they?

 

MothForSale_10-2000_3.jpg

MothForSale_10-2000_4.jpg

No, they definitely are not. 

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Doug, my first thought was the rig was a Windmill with wrong LOA and soft chines as listed, but who knows? It seems to be wood...now who would built a nice appearing rig like this as a one-off?

 

Second, set...Carbon +1...not same rig, if looking for others to comment, likely the mottled or first rig is correct. But, one never knows, "stupid" is not easily cured...sellers and buyers...with boats. caveats are important.

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23 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

I would absolutely love to take it for a ride and determine whether I love it or am disappointed. 
 
it looks like it wastes a lot of its power on moving the weight of lots of unnecessary freeboard. 
 

on the other hand, it might be a dry ride that sails pretty well 

it looks comfortable and suitable for easy molding 

the generally convex shape of everything looks like simple fiberglass laminated could easily generate sufficient panel stiffness and create a durable toy. 
 

but... I remain concerned about What appears to be at least 50% of the boat having nothing to do with either displacing water or providing a place to sit. 
I wonder if that foot of height is necessary or contributes anything but cost and Inertia 

Maybe it keeps your ass dry??

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On 10/27/2020 at 4:18 PM, Carbon said:

No, they definitely are not

Aye! First look like old wood Johnson C boat, one below that looks like wood Jet 14.... 

 

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Could be a "rigged" FJ" with flat rails and open bum...but who knows?

 

Say anyone have ideas on using foam for hull (blue or pink stuff) and/or used elect wire cutter? PM me? sometime...?

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1 hour ago, BobBill said:

Could be a "rigged" FJ" with flat rails and open bum...but who knows?

 

Say anyone have ideas on using foam for hull (blue or pink stuff) and/or used elect wire cutter? PM me? sometime...?

The hull is not remotely shaped like an FJ. It reminds me a singlehander I've seen somewhere.... maybe here.... but those particular brain cells seem to be on vacation. It''ll come to me.... I still think it looks like a great little boat and with that trailer, it's a good deal..

I've built fiberglass stuff using blue insulating foam.  If you're making primarily flat panels, and don't need it to bond to form a proper sandwich, it's great. I've used it to bang out a bunch of corner pieces for electrical projects; laid out a bigger project for speaker cabinets but the money for that didn't happen. It really does not like to bend, IMHO not suitable for boats unless you are carving a model hull. I tried slicing it into planks to bend into fair curves and it kept breaking. Thinking about a homebuilt stand-up paddle board but old windsurfers are free around here.

FB- Doug

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Thanks...Was referring to rig with open stern...sorry was not so clear...FJ shaped hull. At least your cells go and comback...mine leave...period.
 

Have plan to make hull with foam, using Hobie 16 hull as shear and cutting with hot wire, after glueing with a good glue...maybe a rescorcinal based, as epoxy if too hard to keep fair. Will see what I can garner from boatdesign.net too. Gary Dierking hangs there and gove me idea couple years back...

Thanks, keep me up.

 

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5 hours ago, BobBill said:

Could be a "rigged" FJ" with flat rails and open bum...but who knows?

 

Say anyone have ideas on using foam for hull (blue or pink stuff) and/or used elect wire cutter? PM me? sometime...?

You don't want to use that foam for a boat.  If it's for floatation, you'll be driven mad by the squeaking that it does when bouncing through the waves.  We had a 210 with blue foam in it for floatation and the boat squeaked constantly.  If it's for lamination, again a full no as I don't think that it's built as well as divinycell. 

If it's for making a mold, then go for it.  I am using the pink insulating foam from home depot to make a grid(frame) for my carbon t-top project.  It's surprisingly easy to work with and sand.

IMG_9450.JPG

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Thanks...a210, nice rig...had a 110....I know stuff squeaks but is common hull stuff, and Dierking has used to make ourriggers with it...closed cell ESP glued to shearwev and itself...

But also very messy to sand fair too, and why electric wire...to chaape...if glued, shoud not squeak...seems to me.

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7 hours ago, BobBill said:

Thanks...a210, nice rig...had a 110....I know stuff squeaks but is common hull stuff, and Dierking has used to make ourriggers with it...closed cell ESP glued to shearwev and itself...

But also very messy to sand fair too, and why electric wire...to chaape...if glued, shoud not squeak...seems to me.

I have a 110 too...it's actually in that picture but just out of view.  See that black trailer on the right...110 #736 is just out of view above.

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8 hours ago, WCB said:

I have a 110 too...it's actually in that picture but just out of view.  See that black trailer on the right...110 #736 is just out of view above.

Cannot find pic...is rig glass? Pardon spelling, computer problems here and strange keyboards....mine 110 is wood, which I sanded and sheathed. Still driving, I think...last I heard. Up on Minnetonka...love it. Fast, safe and easy to sail alone. Jenny was (then new) and added illegal (then) Hexaratchets to replace snubber...Easy management.

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We use inflated flotation tubes in the 110, sealed into watertight(ish) compartments bow and stern for floatation.  Much lighter than a bunch of foam, won’t become waterlogged or start to disintegrate into the bilge, and can be deflated to gain access to running rigging, fittings and structure that needs attention. 

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In my 110, we used no flotation...none...never came up and boat (wood then) and floated fine without it...and current use of foam is not as flotation per se but as hull per se for below rig..."plastic" Malibu Outrigger" (300#s, 220sq ft sail...) just using foam in outrigger in below boat...plan to do for next season.

HullA.jpg

Moibateau.jpg

11070ExcelBeach.JPG

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1 hour ago, BobBill said:

In my 110, we used no flotation...none...never came up and boat (wood then) and floated fine without it...and current use of foam is not as flotation per se but as hull per se for below rig..."plastic" Malibu Outrigger" (300#s, 220sq ft sail...) just using foam in outrigger in below boat...plan to do for next season.

HullA.jpg

Moibateau.jpg

11070ExcelBeach.JPG

Right, well having had to abandon a 110 in a race that saw 40 kt gusts some years ago,  I think it’s not a great idea to simply rely on the essentially neutral buoyancy of the wood combined with the keel (boat floats right at the gunwale).  Water got into the sealed ends of the boat after stuffing a wave at the leeward mark and we didn’t have enough floatation at the time,.   Rescuing the boat when it’s that low in the water is basically impossible without access to certain equipment like powerful pumps and float bags.   Racing a 110 that doesn’t have watertight bulkheads in decent breeze can be scary if you don’t keep ahead of water ingress.  

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Not disagreeing just what we did...and we often sailed in high winds...a rescue might have been interesting, if not impossible. I loved to sail it alone, with arm in water...on leeward side...was crazy...but then never gave it a thought...and closed cell foam was not in perview...came later in 70s, as I recall.

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On 10/8/2020 at 12:13 PM, WCB said:

2003 Raider on Ebay with a buy it now price of $2,300.  I think that we've seen this boat before.

2003 Raider in Florida

Screen Shot 2020-10-08 at 10.12.18 AM.png

That has been for sale forever 

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The small boat online market is a nightmare - hard to search for boats, many listings are years old, craigslist and fb usually don't come up in google searches and on and on.

It's a shame because there are buyers and sellers but they can't easily get matched up......

I'm still linking that Bauer 12 because of the rowing - can just imagine myself building up my core strength but also have something to sail and putter (electric motor) in.

Yeah, ads from 2015 and 2013 show up. So far I haven't gotten a single response to a form inquiry. 

$8K new - I'm not saying it's not worth it as the dude makes each boat by hand in the USA. On one hand I could just be "that guy" who forks over the big bucks (it's the profit I made from a stock sale today!)....on the other hand, I almost never buy anything new. On the third hand...if I had one....I'm not getting any younger and having nice things is cool...cann't ten it with you. 

Well, if nothing else it's fun searching around. 

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4 hours ago, craigiri said:

The small boat online market is a nightmare - hard to search for boats, many listings are years old, craigslist and fb usually don't come up in google searches and on and on.

It's a shame because there are buyers and sellers but they can't easily get matched up......

I'm still linking that Bauer 12 because of the rowing - can just imagine myself building up my core strength but also have something to sail and putter (electric motor) in.

Yeah, ads from 2015 and 2013 show up. So far I haven't gotten a single response to a form inquiry. 

$8K new - I'm not saying it's not worth it as the dude makes each boat by hand in the USA. On one hand I could just be "that guy" who forks over the big bucks (it's the profit I made from a stock sale today!)....on the other hand, I almost never buy anything new. On the third hand...if I had one....I'm not getting any younger and having nice things is cool...cann't ten it with you. 

Well, if nothing else it's fun searching around. 

Have you tried searchtempest.com?  It searches all of Craigslist and other classifieds for you.  I use it a lot when searching for boats, especially for our program.  I've bought a few off of Craigslist in other states that I found through searchtempest.

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Craigirl...re sig: One cannot relate what one is not familiar with!  JS...nothing new.

IOW, you cannot teach what you do not know...

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