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As noted Alan, thanks. Hard to miss...

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Whenever anybody in Austin rips on me for my participation in the creation of the MFG sailboats, I point at the Glastrons. 

What a horrible waste of fiberglass, resin, wood, sailcloth, aluminum, fittings, fasteners, and manpower 

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2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Whenever anybody in Austin rips on me for my participation in the creation of the MFG sailboats, I point at the Glastrons. 

What a horrible waste of fiberglass, resin, wood, sailcloth, aluminum, fittings, fasteners, and manpower 

We think alike in different places...first sorta thought I had...heavy!

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45 minutes ago, Alan Crawford said:

Stumbled across this boat. It's called a Bongo (although not in the CL add). It's in South Carolina. Looks interesting:

https://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/6142435818.html

http://www.sailingworld.com/sailboats/mini-sportboat-arrives

 

And it's got...

00y0y_9zxMyw4GwTg_600x450.jpg

orange! ORANGE is the new FAST!

But seriously, has anybody sailed one of these? It doesn't look all that good to me, but I'm curious

FB- Doug

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17 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

And it's got...

00y0y_9zxMyw4GwTg_600x450.jpg

orange! ORANGE is the new FAST!

But seriously, has anybody sailed one of these? It doesn't look all that good to me, but I'm curious

FB- Doug

I forgot about those.  Man, those were a flash in the pan.

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Quote

 North mainsail, 112 sq. ft.
Self-tacking laminate mylar jib with Harken furler, 19 sq. ft.
Asymmetrical spinnaker, 147 sq. ft., with continuous single line/carbon fiber pole launching system.

Same upwind SA and same weight as a Snipe. Going to be sticky under 15 kts?

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On 5/22/2017 at 6:48 PM, Steam Flyer said:

And it's got...

00y0y_9zxMyw4GwTg_600x450.jpg

orange! ORANGE is the new FAST!

But seriously, has anybody sailed one of these? It doesn't look all that good to me, but I'm curious

FB- Doug

Bought one few years ago and shipped it to europe. Came from Finns and this is like sailing in an armchair. Very comfortable to sail but still fast. The boat I had did not have the jib but sailed to windward at the same speed as a finn but much more comfy. The fun starts when bearing away. Youre sitting over the water and the boat just planes. Loved to sail it. Sold it lateron to a Doctor in Austria. Disadvantages: tippy when not sailing. It will not fall over when alone in the water but you cannot sit on the side when still in the water. Always wet feet due to the open transom. For the rest a blast of a boat. Very well built by Abbott's. Can recommend it.

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3 minutes ago, maarten said:

Bought one few years ago and shipped it to europe. Came from Finns and this is like sailing in an armchair. Very comfortable to sail but still fast. The boat I had did not have the jib but sailed to windward at the same speed as a finn but much more comfy. The fun starts when bearing away. Youre sitting over the water and the boat just planes. Loved to sail it. Sold it lateron to a Doctor in Austria. Disadvantages: tippy when not sailing. It will not fall over when alone in the water but you cannot sit on the side when still in the water. Always wet feet due to the open transom. For the rest a blast of a boat. Very well built by Abbott's. Can recommend it.

Good write-up... thanks for the info

At this price I am kinda tempted!

FB- Doug

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Dig it! But I bet it is a sob to get back in after a KO. Like my Kite...could bring it up with finger on CB, and then the work began...wind pressure made it climbing back in harder, but was a nice Finn-like ride also, wet rump and all.

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Carry a Finn-style "old guy climb back into the boat line"... (or wiggle in through the open transom and under the upper braces!).

The Bongo web site is still active and has some more info.

Maybe the VX Evo can claim some ideas from this boat? Speaking of which I wonder how that intro is going?

http://sailabongo.com/m/_general/default.asp

 

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You know, did not realize the Bongo is a keel boat. Dig it even more...check this video link...sucker looks to be self-righting... https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEV7gIgCZZ51gAHmcnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEybjF0cWI2BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDQjM4ODZfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Bongo+Sailboat&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003#id=4&vid=e678f0f5d789a801be61720beb669465&action=view  

I don't know about $4K worth of self-righting, but it sure is intriguing.

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A perfect example of why Sunfish should no longer be a limited use trademark.  

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5 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

A perfect example of why Sunfish should no longer be a limited use trademark.  

Love it...  How many descriptions include Sunfish or Laser.

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12 hours ago, WCB said:

Fireball in Park City, Utah?  $800.  I may have some self interest in selling this one.  Great deal and the money goes to support our program.

http://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/44376776

 

12 hours ago, WCB said:

Oh...and how about a fireball at Lake Dillon, CO for $750.

https://denver.craigslist.org/boa/6129406976.html

a couple of beauties, there!

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1 hour ago, WCB said:

Love it...  How many descriptions include Sunfish or Laser.

probably about the same number that use hobbie catermeran, hobbycat and similar variations for anything with two hulls! :D

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RMDanko, My first impulse is to say it is an Enterprise...the chines, but I did not go over it carefully. If an Enterprise, and all there and glass might be very good deal...Trailers can look dismal but end up very functional with little work...tires are cheap and wiring can be nudged, if messed. E's are many for a reason...only weird thing used to be the sails had to be blue for some odd reason.

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1 hour ago, BobBill said:
1 hour ago, rmdanko said:

RMDanko, My first impulse is to say it is an Enterprise...the chines, but I did not go over it carefully. If an Enterprise, and all there and glass might be very good deal...Trailers can look dismal but end up very functional with little work...tires are cheap and wiring can be nudged, if messed. E's are many for a reason...only weird thing used to be the sails had to be blue for some odd reason.

I'm not familiar with the Enterprise other than old sailing book pictures. It looks very much like a Wayfarer, only smaller. Handles along the gunwhale?

That trailer doesn't look too bad either.

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, WCB said:

Looks like a Wayfarer from the description details on the right hand side.

 

Ah, of course, Es bigger bro...might just be... both respectable boats. E is shorter, Holt...have no clue...but looks to be one or other...slick...deal if decent shape and sails are not blown or shot. I would look at it and smile. Guessing with no info owner has no clue and no sails. Ya never know.

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I'm not familiar with the Enterprise other than old sailing book pictures. It looks very much like a Wayfarer, only smaller. Handles along the gunwhale?

That trailer doesn't look too bad either.

FB- Doug

It's a Wayfarer for sure. Older ones had handles on the deck - especially the cruising models.

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On 12/7/2015 at 9:09 AM, cnw1995 said:

I love browsing craigslist for boats... here's an 11 ft sea snark for $450: https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/boa/5321553014.html

This wooden 14 ft Blue Jay looks interesting for $2100: https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/boa/5335347206.html

I've seen this one on Crystal Lake but $5K? https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/boa/5327413667.html

I used to hang at Crystal Lake...back when it was shamefully "restricted." Wife's uncle and fam go way back. Still have cemetery out on 76 or whatever it is north of 14...and schoolhouse...and maybe more. I think most of the farm has been sub divided..sad...hunted pheasants long tracks just north of city limits. But now, one traffic experience on 14 and you are glad to get gone...

Have niece living in town now and couple shirt-tail relatives...McMillans.

I think best rig for lake is a M boat of some sort, even an X...The Snark is really "snarky" - a disaster, the Jay is way over-priced, but that is the area...

 

Sojourn to Fontana or Geneva for decent rigs...with purse...

 

Maybe hit Zenda when they Melges fam dumps inventory...great deals...I mean very good deals.

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On 5/26/2017 at 0:32 PM, bill4 said:

It's a Wayfarer for sure. Older ones had handles on the deck - especially the cruising models.

+1

We had the fg version built in NA,, the CL16. A 14 ft little sister was built too, the CL14.

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Depends...is it a Buccaneer? Sailes, fittings, hull condition? Cracks etc. Blisters. Trailer, ready to roll? Check botom to see if storage left its mark...Check sails...hard to explain but you sort of do a short survey...what ever might be wring you will have to fix.

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1 minute ago, BobBill said:
2 hours ago, rmdanko said:

Think this is a deal ?

it looks to be complete

https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/boa/6154298013.html

Depends...is it a Buccaneer? Sailes, fittings, hull condition? Cracks etc. Blisters. Trailer, ready to roll? Check botom to see if storage left its mark...Check sails...hard to explain but you sort of do a short survey...what ever might be wring you will have to fix.

Yep, Buccaneer, 1977 or older. Sails will almost certainly not be worth having (IMHO, but then I am a bit spoiled), will certainly need running rigging and some new hardware, trailer work... tires & bearings before you hit the road? I'm for sure not gonna crouch in those weeds while I do a bearing job on it.

The Bucc is a nice-sailing boat, the older ones are not competitive but they can still be a hoot. If it has all the major components like a rudder, amd the mast is not bent or crimped, and the trailer isn't trashed... you're still gonna spend some money with some zeroes before this is a real sailboat again... I'd take it off the guys hands (if he mowed the weeds out of the way first).

FB- Doug

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29 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yep, Buccaneer, 1977 or older. Sails will almost certainly not be worth having (IMHO, but then I am a bit spoiled), will certainly need running rigging and some new hardware, trailer work... tires & bearings before you hit the road? I'm for sure not gonna crouch in those weeds while I do a bearing job on it.

The Bucc is a nice-sailing boat, the older ones are not competitive but they can still be a hoot. If it has all the major components like a rudder, amd the mast is not bent or crimped, and the trailer isn't trashed... you're still gonna spend some money with some zeroes before this is a real sailboat again... I'd take it off the guys hands (if he mowed the weeds out of the way first).

FB- Doug

Well, against my wife's wishes I bought it, another project for me

owner pulled it out of the weeds, aired up the tires and evicted the wildlife which was squatting in the hull

Everything is there, newer (not new) harken hardware stored in a tub, mast, boom and spinnaker pole all straight

sails are probably worthless, but what can you expect for $250

Trailer made the 30 mile trip home no sweat

Buccaneer hull #547

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6 minutes ago, rmdanko said:

Well, against my wife's wishes I bought it, another project for me

owner pulled it out of the weeds, aired up the tires and evicted the wildlife which was squatting in the hull

Everything is there, newer (not new) harken hardware stored in a tub, mast, boom and spinnaker pole all straight

sails are probably worthless, but what can you expect for $250

Trailer made the 30 mile trip home no sweat

Buccaneer hull #547

Congrats! You got a spinnaker pole?? BONUS!

FB- Doug

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Bucc. Sounds like a find. Fun...Give the hull the light-test and tap first, and maybe soak the hardware...Buc was R McA-D mono, if I recall. First boat I sailed from pond to slip, in harbor slip. Was good tracker. Sadly was sold or merchandised by Chrysler, which seemed to have little interest, as I recall. You will love it, nevertheless. Sails might be decent, you never know.

Lightning looks like a find also, Thing with eBay, bidding gets hot in last 10 minutes, so you have to say on it and never know. If lucky, few lookers, and works, if in area, and trailer, and you like Lightnings.

Fun, eh?

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Lippencott hulls were pretty competitive. I crewed on 10355 back in the big fleet days.

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The Lightning  photos  look promising. If that lightning has no rot it could be a wonderful find. 

Certainly it needs a mast and sails and modern rigging... but it could be a very nice wood toy 

Edited by Gouvernail
I felt like it
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5 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

The Lightning  photos  look promising. If that lightning has no rot it could be a wonderful find. 

Certainly it needs a mast and sails and modern rigging... but it could be a very nice wood toy 

Agreed. Looks near perfect and well maintained. Lightnings were once very popular out of Belmont Harbor, in Chgo, but as I recall, dry sailed and were mast rigging dependent for speed...still, depending upon the bids and sailing area...nifty boat.

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A little late to the party, but what the hell is this? 

that is one hell of a long boom...

wtf_is_that.JPG

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4 hours ago, Plumber said:

A little late to the party, but what the hell is this? 

that is one hell of a long boom...

wtf_is_that.JPG

That is either a One-Design 14 or a Grand Prix 14, both are double-trap pre-Aussie Rules versions of the International 14.

And yes, that is either the wrong boom or some kind of camera artifact. With the regular boom, it's got skiff power but doesn't fall over like a unicycle. Cool boat. Good trailer. If this was near me at a ood Craigslist price, I'd buy it.

FB- Doug

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Looks odd, but my boom is 17 feet, which is 3 feet or so longer than main hull. I cannot recall 14 rules, certainly not Aussie version, but extended boom would not surprise me,

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Makes perfect sense to this swab...dragging in the water...but my rig tolerates it...as long as the swill stays.

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That rig does have the look...and looks to be set for cat or sloop rig...I have bad dreams I seen something neat like that and missed it...like I need another boat.

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If its really 17' then too long. Also some strange lines in the deck for a snipe. No splash rail for instance, sloped deck.  

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10 minutes ago, Locus said:
20 minutes ago, gobigkahuna said:
1 hour ago, WCB said:

Anybody know what this is?  $200 in Utah.  http://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/44744281

Snipe?

If its really 17' then too long. Also some strange lines in the deck for a snipe. No splash rail for instance, sloped deck.  

Hull looks a lot like a a Snipe or an Interlake... 17' is too big for a Snipe. And IIRC Interlakes have splah rail / coaming, too. Maybe it fell off?

FB- Doug

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47 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

Interlake has a wide cockpit and chunkier aft.

Geary 18/Flattie?

Mercury?

FB- Doug

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Mercury?

FB- Doug

Oh, it does seem to have a dingus down there

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hull looks a lot like a a Snipe or an Interlake... 17' is too big for a Snipe. And IIRC Interlakes have splah rail / coaming, too. Maybe it fell off?

FB- Doug

Definitely not an Interlake (no lapstrake hull).

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"X boat" hard to tell without more pics or being there!

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WCB, BTW, if plastic X-Boat, with decent sails/trailer...a steal...a wonderful boat for youngsters 8 or so and up and old swillers...but many were wood under canvas, and need close inspection...Sometimes less is more....an "X" was/is promoted as a "scow" but is, obviously a chined scow and not nearly as fast, but that is not the point, is it?

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Sailplan and rig are a lot different. Plus "X" is spelled wrong on the sail...

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Bill4 you see the sail? I missed that.

BTW, am thinkin' the logos on X boats sails, were usually tied to lake or club, as I recall and only later carried the "X" seen in Melges boats. Cannot recall first X maker, Johnson in St. Paul or Melges...very underrated sailboat, IMHO.

Rig is simple sloop Marconi arrangement, Jib, main, no spinnaker, as I recall..

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Dunno but that mast needs some varnish very very soon or it will be garbage 

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Scant info and pics but still believe it to be early X-Boat...looks to be wood, with canvas covering. Looks to have the old stern or transom traveler bar and older version were without deck splash combings. No other info? If it is older X, might be decent...yes, mast is in need of some TLC and bet boom, which is not evident, does too. 

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Somehow I came to believe the Bandit rigs were hot but simple, but never seemed to sell as well as say Banchee rigs. I still kind of like 'em.

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7 hours ago, EverySecond said:

An MFG Bandit 15 for $275.  An extra $125 gets you a hoist: https://nmi.craigslist.org/boa/6195031352.html. I'm sure Gouv can tell us more about it, but it seems like a pretty cool boat for the era. 

Bandit 15.jpg

Ah yes- we've discussed the Bandit before. The same boat was made with tank sides, called the Whip. In a boat his size, I'd prefer the tank to the bench seats but it's a matter of personal taste. Excellent hull shape, everything else suffered from being built cheap. For a couple hundred bucks, maybe a go. But not a bargain.

 

5 minutes ago, Locus said:
2 hours ago, WCB said:

Ha I forgot about those. They were made in the 90's right? I think I saw one at a boat show being advertised as the jet ski of sailboats

I think about 20 years earlier. And they are frustrating, underpowered, POSs. Looks cool, but sucks out loud.

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I think about 20 years earlier. And they are frustrating, underpowered, POSs. Looks cool, but sucks out loud.

FB- Doug

.....and how the hell do you adjust the sail when it is behind you? I'm guessing it must have some "easy setting" for the rig.

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Just now, EverySecond said:

.....and how the hell do you adjust the sail when it is behind you? I'm guessing it must have some "easy setting" for the rig.

I must have blocked out the memory of trying to sail them. There was a bunch of them, maybe a demo fleet or maybe built by local builder, and all I definitely remember is that nobody thought they were fun and almost every sail ended up on the downwind shore of the small lake.

FB- Doug

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Regarding the tragic "wingsailer" - those things are so bad you almost want to buy it just to be able to SHOW people just how much of a complete garbage product can actually make it to production and the marketplace.  Sail that off against a Sunfish,  I dare you.

Back in college (early '80s) I was signing up for a bicycle race at the town's good bike shop and I had my "Skid-Lid" helmet with me (required for racing, even back then) and the shop owner came over to me, saw the utter piece of garbage I was planning on wearing in the event - and offered to BUY it from me,  so he could have it as a display of what to NEVER BUY OR USE.

I took him up on his offer, and then bought a real helmet from him.

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10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ah yes- we've discussed the Bandit before. The same boat was made with tank sides, called the Whip. In a boat his size, I'd prefer the tank to the bench seats but it's a matter of personal taste. Excellent hull shape, everything else suffered from being built cheap. For a couple hundred bucks, maybe a go. But not a bargain.

 

I think about 20 years earlier. And they are frustrating, underpowered, POSs. Looks cool, but sucks out loud.

FB- Doug

No no no not true

The Whip was 17 feet and had less freeboard

see photos of each here

 

www.sailmfg.com

 

if that Bandit 15 were a lot closer I would grabbit and make a mold 

that boat, built at 120 lbs with 1970s technology and decent rigging and sails would be a rocket  ship.

it wAs sold st close to 400 pounds with totally insanely retarded rigging and shit sails and still sailed ok. 

The molds were my first, all mine, my team of great ladies, damn near perfectly fair, super heavy duty, three sets of hull and deck molds made from fiberglass plugs made from heavy duty hull and deck made form a rough mold made from a georgeous wooden prototype.

Tge fuckwads at Charger / playcraft Boat Company refused to sell them to me for twenty years after they quit building them and then Bulldozed them rather than sell them to me. 

I have no fantasies about buikdingbtge boat ifvtge century fromnthise molds but had they sold me the molds i. The mid eighties I am certain I would have built a couple hundred of my version of that hull and deck by now.

my vision is a responsive two person local evening race boat with very simple rigging and a relatively small spinnaker. 

 

Like tge 420

i could build a club version and a lightweight responsive version.

when we first got the wood prototype from England with some very nice sails I went to Erie Bay and pretty much blew past any other  Sailboat I could find. That includes lightnings, Thistles, a poorly sailed Dutchman, and a couple Stars. 

McAlpine Downey swore it beat up on the 505s but I didn't have any to play with. 

Then we fucked it up with insane heavy powerboat laminates and Gibbs' shit for brains rigging .

i did manage to create a pretty good centerboard and rudder and, as I built almost all of them myself and supervised the building of the rest, I think they are mostly still OK forty years later. 

OK now I am too pissed to go to sleep for another hour. 

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8 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

No no no not true

The Whip was 17 feet and had less freeboard

see photos of each here

 

www.sailmfg.com

I apologize for posting wrong info... darn memory... thanks for setting it straight

 

8 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

if that Bandit 15 were a lot closer I would grabbit and make a mold 

that boat, built at 120 lbs with 1970s technology and decent rigging and sails would be a rocket  ship.

it wAs sold st close to 400 pounds with totally insanely retarded rigging and shit sails and still sailed ok. 

The molds were my first, all mine, my team of great ladies, damn near perfectly fair, super heavy duty, three sets of hull and deck molds made from fiberglass plugs made from heavy duty hull and deck made form a rough mold made from a georgeous wooden prototype.

Tge fuckwads at Charger / playcraft Boat Company refused to sell them to me for twenty years after they quit building them and then Bulldozed them rather than sell them to me. 

I have no fantasies about buikdingbtge boat ifvtge century fromnthise molds but had they sold me the molds i. The mid eighties I am certain I would have built a couple hundred of my version of that hull and deck by now.

my vision is a responsive two person local evening race boat with very simple rigging and a relatively small spinnaker. 

 

Like tge 420

i could build a club version and a lightweight responsive version.

when we first got the wood prototype from England with some very nice sails I went to Erie Bay and pretty much blew past any other  Sailboat I could find. That includes lightnings, Thistles, a poorly sailed Dutchman, and a couple Stars. 

McAlpine Downey swore it beat up on the 505s but I didn't have any to play with. 

Then we fucked it up with insane heavy powerboat laminates and Gibbs' shit for brains rigging .

i did manage to create a pretty good centerboard and rudder and, as I built almost all of them myself and supervised the building of the rest, I think they are mostly still OK forty years later. 

OK now I am too pissed to go to sleep for another hour. 

McAlpine-Downey did some great designs. I am currently sailing/racing a Buccaneer which is a great boat- could be better but hey.

A few years back I bought an AMF Puffer to sail in the creek behind our house; after buying new sails and completely re-rigging it and making a new properly shaped daggerboard, it sails quite nicely. If it were built as designed, instead being produced as a frustrating cheap POS, it could have been a a big plus for bringing beginners into the sport. So it's not just MFG

FB- Doug

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R McA-D is one of the best, IMHO...I recall vaguely that the rig was very heavy and typical MFG...seems the hull, compared to say a Banshee or similar, was like a rock...way solid and would not flex much...just a thought long gone, like the boat. I also seem to recall doing some comparisons to an Osprey....intending to buy one and ended up staying with the 110...'til Fox's Fifteen hit the waves, but ended up with the Ensign.

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