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winchfodder

Why is ISAF not cancelling any sanction or participation in Malaysia

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IMO, a regatta should be sailed, to make the best of the situation for the athletes there, who've done nothing wrong. But World Championship status should be removed from the regatta. The record book can reflect that the Championship for this year is vacant because of discrimination by the host country...embarrassing them in perpetuity, and serving as an example to other countries.

 

That's actually a great idea.

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Dorydude...the Miami ISAF event is looking for volunteers to spread their brand of hate. If you feel ISAF is correct, call them and volunteer. Bring your friends and your boats. Bet you won't.

 

please do not bother with that troll from PA. Other than that, your post was spot fucking on. While i feel for the competitors who have not much choice but to compete at OCR without your support - if they are to try and qualify for Rio (which in light of both the trash and ISAF issues has me completely conflicted but still sympathetic to the competitors and my friends) - i feel like you have made the right choice.

 

And, to everyone else, please do not quote the troll from PA

 

 

Exactly. For those of you who are not aware of this twat waffle - DoryDouche has a long history over on PA of Anti-semite trolling and just pure conspiratorial non-sense. Ignore it and it will go away.

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Dorydude...the Miami ISAF event is looking for volunteers to spread their brand of hate. If you feel ISAF is correct, call them and volunteer. Bring your friends and your boats. Bet you won't.

please do not bother with that troll from PA. Other than that, your post was spot fucking on. While i feel for the competitors who have not much choice but to compete at OCR without your support - if they are to try and qualify for Rio (which in light of both the trash and ISAF issues has me completely conflicted but still sympathetic to the competitors and my friends) - i feel like you have made the right choice.

 

And, to everyone else, please do not quote the troll from PA

Exactly. For those of you who are not aware of this twat waffle - DoryDouche has a long history over on PA of Anti-semite trolling and just pure conspiratorial non-sense. Ignore it and it will go away.

Translation:

 

Every time I engage in debate with dorydude I get thoroughly owned. Childish name calling is usually my parting shot.

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Let's begin a list of ISAF and national affiliate organisations to begin writing to.

 

It will be worth making sure the Israeli equivalent of US Sailing etc. get copied in so they know they have support. I'm in Australia so here it's

 

Yachting Australia

 

http://www.yachting.org.au/about-us/contact-us/our-staff/

 

The CEO is

 

Matt Carroll
Direct Phone: (02) 8424 7401
  • Yachting Australia Governance
  • Yachting Australia Strategic Plan development
  • Government relations
  • Internal representation and ISAF

I will be writing to Mr Carroll, and I encourage other Aussie sailors to do the same.

Let me be clear I am opposed to all such political boycotts, whether they are concerned with sports, scientific links, or cultural links and I am on record as objecting to them (for Iranian academics, as one example) in correspondence to my government representatives. Lest you think this is just about Israel for me. If Israel tried to do what Malaysia is doing I'd be objecting just the same.

The Israel Sailing Association is their national-level organisation. Gilad Amir is President and Smadar Pintov is CEO:

Israel Sailing Association

GROUP D
President Gilad Amir Chief Executive Officer Smadar Pintov Address 6 Shitrit St
Tel-Aviv 69482
Israel Tel +972 3 6482860 Fax +972 3 6482854 Email isrsa@sailing.org.il Website www.sailing.org.il

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for the record I am at the event and not a country flag to be seen on any boat. 3 letter ISAF country code on hull, sails & competitors bibs so Israel not singled out there. Point 2 hosts don't have to pay a fee to ISAF to host the event but they, in effect, sign a contract they will honor all conditions and we all know of instances where individuals & companies haven't kept their word, never mind politicians or governments. Point 3 - the suggestion the games should be boycotted would only result in 400 gutted kids instead of 2. Point 4 when decades of US diplomatic energy has failed to improve the relations in the Middle East, if ISAF are weak for not getting these 2 Israeli athletes to the World Youths then just how would you describe the US Government. Point 6 the Golds in Moscow in 1980 were still Gold, not allowing athletes to compete only serves to widen the problem, not solve it - these are the athletes events and we shouldn't spoilt for them. Just think ahead a few years.... Mr Combover wins US presidential election and follows through on his "no Muslims" pledge, so how many nations would be banned from Corpus Christie in 2018. The political landscape in most countries changes regularly and remember Langkawi would have been awarded this event in 2010 or11, plenty time for politicians and governments to change their thinking - SS

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Reports from Malaysia at the opening of the event seem to be all happiness and smiles. ISAF representatives clearly will be doing nothing to upset the government who are paying for their travel hotel and meals.

 

Maybe there is just a chance that ISAF will stand up for all the sailors in the future.

 

So time to start looking at their "contract " with Oman for the next youth world's and any other sailing events scheduled for countries in the Middle East

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My inclination is to invite the Israeli kids to come sail at the 2016 Easter Laser Regatta. We can call it the Intergalactic Youth Championships.

Class rules won't allow the reinforcement of the sails by application of a flag but the coach boat can fly the flag and blast the Israeli national anthem all the time except around the time of the starting sequence.

We will figure out a Kosher menu for the kids meals, we already do vegetarian and gluten free for others.

I like ham on sourdough for myself at lunch and we do Mexican food for dinner despite the fact some of the staff at the restaurant may be anchor babies.

 

So how do we set this up and how many of you will work to help the kids have an experience similar to that which stupid politics deprived them??

 

 

Note: we can out on a pretty decent event. Here is a photo of David and Gail Bernstein accepting an award from USSailing when the Easter Laser Regatta won the annual award for something like being the most dang fun sailors could have in one weekend while also having 75 sailors battling it out in eight hotly contested races.

ELR-Award-02.jpg

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I sent an email to the entire board of directors of US Sailing and received a reply that they are preparing to respond to the ISAF. I also sent the ISAF an objection. The only acceptable outcome is that ISAF corrects its antisemitic course or US Sailing stops any interaction with ISAF.

Well they can start by explaining how Cory Sertl is the chair of the world youth sub-committee and has been on the committee for years. The youth world sub committee recommend to ISAF council the venue for the youth worlds. ISAF council makes the final decision on that committees advice. Cory Sertl is also the US Sailing representative on the ISAF council and would have voted for Langkawi.

 

US Sailing can't hide or blame ISAF when their representative proposed and voted for Langkawi.

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As much as people like sport to exist in a bubble, it does not. Washington boycotted an entire Olympic games to protest the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan so perhaps those complaining now don't like them apples? Many in NZ took a stand and protested a rugby tour with South Africa in '81 when they were an apartheid country to a message. Applying pressure via sport has precedent, the question is one of whether it is justified or not, and to be clear I do not want to see kids suffer for the sins of their fathers. I also see a very complex political issue and humanitarian disaster in the Palestinian territories so perhaps a couple of Israeli kids not being able to fly their national flag is not such a big deal in comparison.

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Why let facts get in the way of a good story (or rant for that matter) as is clear from the recent piece on the FP.

 

I am on the ground (and water) in Langkawi and some of the facts being reported are clearly not - facts that is.

 

ISAF, like the IOC have sanctions where athletes may not be able to compete under their national flag. In fact the official programme has 2 athletes listed under ISAF - yes, the "banned" Israelis. Anyone who wanted London 2012 opening ceremony will remember these athletes parading in under the Olympic flag.

 

On the matter of the Israelis not being allowed their national flag on their sails etc, NO-ONE is allowed. All teams have the ISAF 3 letter national designation on the hull, sails and sailors' bibs.

 

Sure some things are not right but to blame ISAF because someone has dishonoured their promises to ISAF is rather perverse

 

Hopefully further and fuller comments on the FP tomorrow with some words on the important stuff - ie. The kids who are here and how the racing is going.

 

See ya on the water

 

SS

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Why let facts get in the way of a good story (or rant for that matter) as is clear from the recent piece on the FP.

 

I am on the ground (and water) in Langkawi and some of the facts being reported are clearly not - facts that is.

 

ISAF, like the IOC have sanctions where athletes may not be able to compete under their national flag. In fact the official programme has 2 athletes listed under ISAF - yes, the "banned" Israelis. Anyone who wanted London 2012 opening ceremony will remember these athletes parading in under the Olympic flag.

 

On the matter of the Israelis not being allowed their national flag on their sails etc, NO-ONE is allowed. All teams have the ISAF 3 letter national designation on the hull, sails and sailors' bibs.

 

Sure some things are not right but to blame ISAF because someone has dishonoured their promises to ISAF is rather perverse

 

Hopefully further and fuller comments on the FP tomorrow with some words on the important stuff - ie. The kids who are here and how the racing is going.

 

See ya on the water

 

SS

Yes we want to teach the kids that racism and intolerance in ok if you have spent a few buck is ok...sport is more important...

 

Why let facts get in the way of a good story (or rant for that matter) as is clear from the recent piece on the FP.

 

I am on the ground (and water) in Langkawi and some of the facts being reported are clearly not - facts that is.

 

ISAF, like the IOC have sanctions where athletes may not be able to compete under their national flag. In fact the official programme has 2 athletes listed under ISAF - yes, the "banned" Israelis. Anyone who wanted London 2012 opening ceremony will remember these athletes parading in under the Olympic flag.

 

On the matter of the Israelis not being allowed their national flag on their sails etc, NO-ONE is allowed. All teams have the ISAF 3 letter national designation on the hull, sails and sailors' bibs.

 

Sure some things are not right but to blame ISAF because someone has dishonoured their promises to ISAF is rather perverse

 

Hopefully further and fuller comments on the FP tomorrow with some words on the important stuff - ie. The kids who are here and how the racing is going.

 

See ya on the water

 

SS

Yes we want to teach the kids that racism and intolerance in ok if you have spent a few buck is ok...sport is more important...

 

sorry...is there a sarcasm emoji ? I should have used it if there is one...in case there was any confusion.

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for the record I am at the event and not a country flag to be seen on any boat. 3 letter ISAF country code on hull, sails & competitors bibs so Israel not singled out there. Point 2 hosts don't have to pay a fee to ISAF to host the event but they, in effect, sign a contract they will honor all conditions and we all know of instances where individuals & companies haven't kept their word, never mind politicians or governments. Point 3 - the suggestion the games should be boycotted would only result in 400 gutted kids instead of 2. Point 4 when decades of US diplomatic energy has failed to improve the relations in the Middle East, if ISAF are weak for not getting these 2 Israeli athletes to the World Youths then just how would you describe the US Government. Point 6 the Golds in Moscow in 1980 were still Gold, not allowing athletes to compete only serves to widen the problem, not solve it - these are the athletes events and we shouldn't spoilt for them. Just think ahead a few years.... Mr Combover wins US presidential election and follows through on his "no Muslims" pledge, so how many nations would be banned from Corpus Christie in 2018. The political landscape in most countries changes regularly and remember Langkawi would have been awarded this event in 2010 or11, plenty time for politicians and governments to change their thinking - SS

 

Pretty sure this post of yours isn't going to end up going so well for you.

 

First, how about we leave the macro politics out of this, and the presumption of who a future US President might be and what sort of immigration/tourism issues that person might propose. I hope you do realize a US President couldn't just slam the border shut on his own.

 

At this particular regatta, the issue is hardly just the flag on the main.

 

The issue is why ISAF continues to allow this sort of exclusionary thing to happen, and what immediate corrective action they will take.

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ISAF, like the IOC have sanctions where athletes may not be able to compete under their national flag. In fact the official programme has 2 athletes listed under ISAF - yes, the "banned" Israelis. Anyone who wanted London 2012 opening ceremony will remember these athletes parading in under the Olympic flag.

 

 

 

Inaccurate douchenozzle. Obviously you didn't watch the opening ceremony.

 

Israel-Olympics.jpg

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I sent an email to the entire board of directors of US Sailing and received a reply that they are preparing to respond to the ISAF. I also sent the ISAF an objection. The only acceptable outcome is that ISAF corrects its antisemitic course or US Sailing stops any interaction with ISAF.

 

Hi did and got the same....

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for the record I am at the event and not a country flag to be seen on any boat. 3 letter ISAF country code on hull, sails & competitors bibs so Israel not singled out there. Point 2 hosts don't have to pay a fee to ISAF to host the event but they, in effect, sign a contract they will honor all conditions and we all know of instances where individuals & companies haven't kept their word, never mind politicians or governments. Point 3 - the suggestion the games should be boycotted would only result in 400 gutted kids instead of 2. Point 4 when decades of US diplomatic energy has failed to improve the relations in the Middle East, if ISAF are weak for not getting these 2 Israeli athletes to the World Youths then just how would you describe the US Government. Point 6 the Golds in Moscow in 1980 were still Gold, not allowing athletes to compete only serves to widen the problem, not solve it - these are the athletes events and we shouldn't spoilt for them. Just think ahead a few years.... Mr Combover wins US presidential election and follows through on his "no Muslims" pledge, so how many nations would be banned from Corpus Christie in 2018. The political landscape in most countries changes regularly and remember Langkawi would have been awarded this event in 2010 or11, plenty time for politicians and governments to change their thinking - SS

 

That's a great big pile of excuses right there my friend. "Things are great here, no one even notices the racism!" Did you not see the PDF?

 

Oman, 2015. Abu Dhabi, 2014 and 15. Langkawi, 2015. Whatever this trend is among sailing muslim countries: it is time to end it.

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The unpick is quite simple; the Omanis got pissed that Shin Bet said their security wasn't good enough, and they cancelled the Israeli visas. When the Israelis said they'd go anyway, Oman basically said 'fuck you - too late.'

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Shades of the Mr Clean And The Pink Flag Incident about this.

 

Excuse me?

 

An awful lot of noise about a flag that possibly... probably ... shouldn't really matter.

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The unpick is quite simple; the Omanis got pissed that Shin Bet said their security wasn't good enough, and they cancelled the Israeli visas. When the Israelis said they'd go anyway, Oman basically said 'fuck you - too late.'

 

 

Wrong. Shin Bet told the sailors they could not go. Oman also said they could not go.

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As much as people like sport to exist in a bubble, it does not. Washington boycotted an entire Olympic games to protest the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan so perhaps those complaining now don't like them apples? Many in NZ took a stand and protested a rugby tour with South Africa in '81 when they were an apartheid country to a message. Applying pressure via sport has precedent, the question is one of whether it is justified or not, and to be clear I do not want to see kids suffer for the sins of their fathers. I also see a very complex political issue and humanitarian disaster in the Palestinian territories so perhaps a couple of Israeli kids not being able to fly their national flag is not such a big deal in comparison.

 

If Malaysia told the GBR youth windsurfing representatives that they could only get a visa for Youth Worlds if they signed a legal agreement that they wouldn't put the union jack or "GBR" on their sails and if they signed a 'gag order' that said they could be arrested if they talked or wrote about it, would you be OK with that? Assume that no other nation has had to go through anything like this.

 

If so, are you OK with black nations being told they can sail, but only if they wear all-white clothing, gloves, and hats at all times in public?

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Like I said Clean, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. At the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympics, 4 athletes entered the stadium under the Olympic flag as"Independant Olympic Athletes". What ISAF did, in an attempt to get the two Israeli sailors into the event was to include them as ISAF sailors. Clearly, and sadly, it didn't work. Clean, I am not 100% wrong! You've got Google, check for yourself.

 

Anyway, I'm down and clear on this,

 

SS

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The unpick is quite simple; the Omanis got pissed that Shin Bet said their security wasn't good enough, and they cancelled the Israeli visas. When the Israelis said they'd go anyway, Oman basically said 'fuck you - too late.'

 

 

Wrong. Shin Bet told the sailors they could not go. Oman also said they could not go.

 

 

 

Shin bet said 'no' on Date A, and then the athletes said 'we're going anyway' on Date B. The Visas had been issued months before, but they were canceled shortly after Date A. The Israeli Sailing Federation and Oman Sail both tried very hard to get the new visas, but the government minister apparently already was annoyed by those pain in the ass Jews and he ignored all requests.

 

That's what I got from talking to a person familiar with the negotiations. What's your source?

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Like I said Clean, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. At the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympics, 4 athletes entered the stadium under the Olympic flag as"Independant Olympic Athletes". What ISAF did, in an attempt to get the two Israeli sailors into the event was to include them as ISAF sailors. Clearly, and sadly, it didn't work. Clean, I am not 100% wrong! You've got Google, check for yourself.

 

Anyway, I'm down and clear on this,

 

SS

The point is that they should not have to be included as independent or ISAF affiliated. They should be able to compete on equal terms as any other athelete. Including having their anthem played.

 

Are you attempting to claim that there is no state sponsored, political policy of discrimination? Or just simply that it is hidden from view and subverted through half assed efforts?

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The unpick is quite simple; the Omanis got pissed that Shin Bet said their security wasn't good enough, and they cancelled the Israeli visas. When the Israelis said they'd go anyway, Oman basically said 'fuck you - too late.'

 

 

Wrong. Shin Bet told the sailors they could not go. Oman also said they could not go.

 

 

 

Shin bet said 'no' on Date A, and then the athletes said 'we're going anyway' on Date B. The Visas had been issued months before, but they were canceled shortly after Date A. The Israeli Sailing Federation and Oman Sail both tried very hard to get the new visas, but the government minister apparently already was annoyed by those pain in the ass Jews and he ignored all requests.

 

That's what I got from talking to a person familiar with the negotiations. What's your source?

 

 

 

 

I've quoted my source. Jerusalem Post. Have you considered actually reading it?

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Like I said Clean, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. At the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympics, 4 athletes entered the stadium under the Olympic flag as"Independant Olympic Athletes". What ISAF did, in an attempt to get the two Israeli sailors into the event was to include them as ISAF sailors. Clearly, and sadly, it didn't work. Clean, I am not 100% wrong! You've got Google, check for yourself.

Anyway, I'm down and clear on this,

SS

I am not sure that any athlete should be banned from competing as a representative of their country. That said what the IOC has done in the past when it has had athletes from banned countries compete as IOC athletes is much different than what Malaysia is doing.

 

In the case of the Olympics The IOC is the one that has barred the countries from competing. In the current junior worlds it is the country of Malaysia dictating to the international sailing community who is allowed to sail and under what conditions.

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ISAF...the lowest scum of the earth....let it happen. The fact that the Malaysian government wouldn't give them Visas is another issue. Even if they had received their visas, less than 24 hours before the event started, they would have competed under a different set of rules. All the other teams were practicing at the venue long before Christmas. ISAF International Rules state that your country flag will be on your sail. If you place, your national anthem will be played. They were making an "exception" for Israeli team? BULL SHIT!

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ISAF knew well in advance that the team from Israel would not be able to sail with their country flag. If they placed, their national anthem would not be played. The other teams were there weeks in advance to practice yet 24 hours before the start of the regatta, the Israeli team did not have Visas to travel to Malaysia.

 

Teaching the next generation of sailors that it's OK to discriminate? Horrible!

 

For the last 10 years I have volunteered...with my boat for the Miami OCR/ISAF World Cup. Sometimes...I'd find two boats for our course. As of this morning...I have resigned my position at the ISAF Miami event. Several of my team members are pulling out as well in support of my position and against discrimination!

 

The fact that US Sailing has not commented is deplorable and unacceptable as well. They seem to not care. Sailing as a fair and impartial sport is only a matter of history. The current environment does not promote either fair or impartial. Good bye.

 

US Sailing is taking its sweet ass time, though part of that is just getting everyone on the phone when they are overseas or skiing. And i salute your stand against ISAF on this. Looking forward to buying you a drink next time I see you.

 

GN4478,

 

Could you post those e-mail addresses here?

 

Jack Gierhardt promised me a statement from US Sailing "as quickly as we possibly can" yesterday morning.

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The unpick is quite simple; the Omanis got pissed that Shin Bet said their security wasn't good enough, and they cancelled the Israeli visas. When the Israelis said they'd go anyway, Oman basically said 'fuck you - too late.'

 

 

Wrong. Shin Bet told the sailors they could not go. Oman also said they could not go.

 

 

 

Shin bet said 'no' on Date A, and then the athletes said 'we're going anyway' on Date B. The Visas had been issued months before, but they were canceled shortly after Date A. The Israeli Sailing Federation and Oman Sail both tried very hard to get the new visas, but the government minister apparently already was annoyed by those pain in the ass Jews and he ignored all requests.

 

That's what I got from talking to a person familiar with the negotiations. What's your source?

 

 

 

 

I've quoted my source. Jerusalem Post. Have you considered actually reading it?

 

You picked a small part of the full story to cite. I read all the stories, and then called a friend who works for Oman Sail.

 

Do a little more research, smarmy one.

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Why let facts get in the way of a good story (or rant for that matter) as is clear from the recent piece on the FP.

 

I am on the ground (and water) in Langkawi and some of the facts being reported are clearly not - facts that is.

 

ISAF, like the IOC have sanctions where athletes may not be able to compete under their national flag. In fact the official programme has 2 athletes listed under ISAF - yes, the "banned" Israelis. Anyone who wanted London 2012 opening ceremony will remember these athletes parading in under the Olympic flag.

 

On the matter of the Israelis not being allowed their national flag on their sails etc, NO-ONE is allowed. All teams have the ISAF 3 letter national designation on the hull, sails and sailors' bibs.

 

Sure some things are not right but to blame ISAF because someone has dishonoured their promises to ISAF is rather perverse

 

Hopefully further and fuller comments on the FP tomorrow with some words on the important stuff - ie. The kids who are here and how the racing is going.

 

See ya on the water

 

SS

 

If you want to write an interesting event report of the event, we'll be happy to run it. Just leave the apologist crap, fantasies of flagless Israelis in London, and random nonsequitur rants out of it, please.

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I have a feeling that by flag the very original article meant country code. This is not fact, but given that photos show no flags (and no numbers, as per usual at youth worlds) it would seem to indicate that if something were to be removed, it would have to be the country code. Still shitty, in fact, just as sbitty as removing the flag if everyone had one.

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The NOR requires competitors to bring a flag, ostensibly to use in the opening ceremonies. There are no flags on sails or bibs, only country codes.

 

What nobody has mentioned yet - the 2017 Youth Worlds are in Akko, Israel (per Richard Gladwell's article in Sail World this morning - http://www.sail-world.com/Youth-Worlds---Organisers-in-hot-seat-after-Israel-sailors-excluded/141176)

Karma could be a bitch.

 

Also, the PRO for the 2016 Olympics is an Israeli - Nino Shmueli

 

The only US race official in Malaysia is Tom Duggan - who's probably running the Laser course.

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ISAF knew well in advance that the team from Israel would not be able to sail with their country flag. If they placed, their national anthem would not be played. The other teams were there weeks in advance to practice yet 24 hours before the start of the regatta, the Israeli team did not have Visas to travel to Malaysia.

 

Teaching the next generation of sailors that it's OK to discriminate? Horrible!

 

For the last 10 years I have volunteered...with my boat for the Miami OCR/ISAF World Cup. Sometimes...I'd find two boats for our course. As of this morning...I have resigned my position at the ISAF Miami event. Several of my team members are pulling out as well in support of my position and against discrimination!

 

The fact that US Sailing has not commented is deplorable and unacceptable as well. They seem to not care. Sailing as a fair and impartial sport is only a matter of history. The current environment does not promote either fair or impartial. Good bye.

 

US Sailing is taking its sweet ass time, though part of that is just getting everyone on the phone when they are overseas or skiing. And i salute your stand against ISAF on this. Looking forward to buying you a drink next time I see you.

 

GN4478,

 

Could you post those e-mail addresses here?

 

Jack Gierhardt promised me a statement from US Sailing "as quickly as we possibly can" yesterday morning.

 

Expecting US Sailing to do anything substantial is laughable. They still have national events hosted at clubs with exclusionary membership practices (no Women, Blacks, or Jews), even though these practices have been pointed out to them formally in the past. The response from US Sailing has always been nothing more than gloss to try to ignore it further. Having a major one design national event at a club whose solution is to just not allow any of the sailors into the clubhouse (because some are women, blacks, or possibly even Jewish), and even after several letters with the President of US Sailing pointing out the issue, simply allowing the same club to host another national event a few years later, is how they operate. I gave up several years ago, and have not paid membership dues to US Sailing or ISAF since.

 

The US has a deplorable record when it comes to sailing/yachting clubs and exclusionary membership practices, and it is nowhere near cleaned up yet, there is a long way to go.

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The NOR requires competitors to bring a flag, ostensibly to use in the opening ceremonies. There are no flags on sails or bibs, only country codes.

 

What nobody has mentioned yet - the 2017 Youth Worlds are in Akko, Israel (per Richard Gladwell's article in Sail World this morning - http://www.sail-world.com/Youth-Worlds---Organisers-in-hot-seat-after-Israel-sailors-excluded/141176)

Karma could be a bitch.

 

Also, the PRO for the 2016 Olympics is an Israeli - Nino Shmueli

 

The only US race official in Malaysia is Tom Duggan - who's probably running the Laser course.

Somehow, I just don't see the Israeli's exercising their karma on the kids, history has shown these two sides don't play by the same rules. That should be open enough for misinterpretation :D;)

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ISAF, on its own, won't be able to change a country's policies. But what it can and should do is use its influence to ensure that the sport under its purview is kept free of those politics. And that starts with ensuring that it does not sanction events in countries that to not welcome athletes from all UN recognized countries, and welcome them on equal terms.

 

ISAF is funded through several revenue streams, but in no small part through all of us, the sailors. They receive revenue streams from associations, and through national sailing authorities, and those organizations are directly funded by all of us.

 

If you agree that sports should hold to the naïve but worthy goal of being free of these types of politics, then the answer is simple. Take action with your national authority, and the associations you are part of. Make them put pressure on ISAF to do the right thing. Make them commit that if their representatives, our representatives, are part of the decision making process then they are making the right decision on which countries are rewarded with sanctioned events.

 

Make those thoughts known by emailing your representatives, and make it known by with holding your dues. Speak your mind, and speak loudly.

 

The USA Class 40 will not be renewing it's US Sailing membership until they forcefully and publicly state that their reps will not vote for events in countries that engage in this type of discrimination and that they, as our national representatives insist that ISAF make a similar commitment. I will also be sharing that action with the full board of the Class40.

 

Likewise, my own personal membership renewal arrived in the mail this past week and I will not be renewing that membership to US Sailing until they take those actions. I will also suggest to every organizer of an event that I participate in this year that they should not make US Sailing membership a requirement for participation, nor confer benefit for such membership until US Sailing takes a stand against this type of behavior.

 

Make your voice heard, and not just in these forums.

 

Michael Hennessy

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Independent Olympic Athletes have competed at several recent games. Not from Israel, though; primarily from countries with no national olympic committee.

 

Doesn't look like sailing is alone in having a situation like this. E.g.

 

Shahar Peer (tennis) denied visa by Dubai (2009). Visa granted in 2010.

Delays in issuing badminton player Misha Zilberman a visa by Indonesia this year for the world championships. AFAICFO, no Israeli flag flown at the event.

Israeli judokas fighting under the flag of the international judo federation at the Abu Dhabi grand prix this year.

Israeli Technical delegate denied a visa for the Asian shooting championship in Kuwait. (Kuwait has been suspended by the IOC).

Israel denying Ahli al-Khalil football team from Hebron visas to enter Gaza to play Ittihad al-Shujaiyeh. (Subsequently granted).

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Clean- good on you for pursuing this.

Just to be a PITA while I drink my coffee, I don't think the issue is racism. More like nationalism. AFAIK Jews can be blonde and blue eyed or black African and Israeli citizens can look like anything and have any or no religion. IMHO the entire country of Israel could become atheists or Zoroastrians and their enemies wouldn't give a shit as long as they pursued the same policies they do now. Also AFAIK Malaysia has not banned Jews from countries other than Israel.

Minor nits to pick I know and no consolation to the Israeli kids that got boned hard, but I just get annoyed when all the various "isms" get run together. Carry on.

ISAF - you blow for going along with this. Just sayin.

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Actually, if one looks at ISAF Executive Committee Minutes from November 2012, they were already aware of such situations. I'm not sure if changes were implemented, though.

3. Reports

{c} Secretary Generals Report

iii) MNAs

The Secretary General reported on the problems experienced by some of our

MNAs from Governments who were threatening the autonomy of the sport.

 

Decision

The ISAF Constitution needs to be changed so that ISAF has the right to

suspend a member for non-compliance with good governance.

7-MIN_EX_Nov_2012.pdf

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Clean- good on you for pursuing this.

Just to be a PITA while I drink my coffee, I don't think the issue is racism. More like nationalism. AFAIK Jews can be blonde and blue eyed or black African and Israeli citizens can look like anything and have any or no religion. IMHO the entire country of Israel could become atheists or Zoroastrians and their enemies wouldn't give a shit as long as they pursued the same policies they do now. Also AFAIK Malaysia has not banned Jews from countries other than Israel.

Minor nits to pick I know and no consolation to the Israeli kids that got boned hard, but I just get annoyed when all the various "isms" get run together. Carry on.

ISAF - you blow for going along with this. Just sayin.

That is incredibly naive. If you know anything about the current situation in the middle east, and specifically the relationship between Israel and a vast majority of Muslim countries is not only about the religion, it is INTENSELY about the religion. The hottest spot in the conflict, the old city of Jerusalem is ALL ABOUT religion. To try to take that out of the picture is completely ignoring the facts. Comments from Muslim political leaders like "I want all the Jews to come to Israel, so I don't have to chase them around the world to kill them." should tell you something. Clearly you have not visited the middle east in the last 40 years otherwise you would never make such comments.

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Actually, if one looks at ISAF Executive Committee Minutes from November 2012, they were already aware of such situations. I'm not sure if changes were implemented, though.

3. Reports

{c} Secretary Generals Report

iii) MNAs

The Secretary General reported on the problems experienced by some of our

MNAs from Governments who were threatening the autonomy of the sport.

 

Decision

The ISAF Constitution needs to be changed so that ISAF has the right to

suspend a member for non-compliance with good governance.

 

 

I wonder if there were an Israeli F1 Team, would Malaysia treat them the same or would Bernie have the balls to pull out?

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WS/(ISAF) constitution

7. It shall be the obligation of a Member National Authority, Associate Member and ISAF Member to ensure that there shall be no discrimination on grounds of race, religion or political affiliation against any competitor representing a Member National Authority; further to prevent improper use or abuse of terms such as World, Continental, International or Regional that properly relate to activities recognized by the Federation and to co-operate in the collection and payment of the "International and Recognized Class Fees" payable to the Federation.

 

From the regulations.

MNA autonomy and independence

1.13 Member National Authorities must comply with the following obligations:
(a) manage their internal affairs independently and ensure that no third party (whether state, government or private) interferes with their operations (however a Member National Authority may accept an appropriate level of control over its financial affairs in order to meet any conditions imposed on financial grants or allowances paid to it, provided that such control does not extend to interference in the Member National Authority’s strategy or operations);
(b ) remain autonomous and resist any political, religious or financial pressure that may infringe on their obligations to observe the ISAF Constitution and Regulations;
(c ) report any interference (or attempted interference) to the Chief Executive Officer as soon as reasonably practicable;
(d) make provision for an election or internal appointment system that ensures complete independence of the Member National Authority from state, government or other public authority interference (provided that a Member National Authority may, in its discretion, elect representatives from those authorities); and
(e) not permit state, government or other public authorities to appoint members of the executive board (or equivalent) of the Member National Authority (provided that the Member National Authority may, in its discretion, permit a limited number of non-voting positions on such board to external representatives).
1.15 If, upon proper inquiry, the Executive Committee concludes that a Member National Authority is in breach of its obligations under Regulation 1.13, it may:
(a) issue a formal warning to the Member National Authority and require it to take such measures as are necessary to comply with its obligations within a certain
period of time; and/or
(b ) not recognize the decisions made by the Member National Authority or any elections or appointments made by it; and/o
(c ) suspend the Member National Authority and report the suspension to Council at its next meeting for ratification; and/or
(d) recommend to Council that the Member National Authority’s membership be cancelled under Article 15.4.

 

(IANAL, but it looks like WS has a reasonable quiver of usable big sticks there).

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Dancing Bear - my quote doesn't work.

I am sure religion is a huge driver of their problems, so say religion-ism rather than race-ism maybe? Like I said and I maintain still, at this point Israel has something her enemies want and they will always hate *Israelis* regardless of how religious they are. Even if Israel converted to Islam en masse, they STILL would have plenty of enemies. Remember that Jordan got tired of the PLO's endless undermining and killed a metric shit-ton of their coreligionists and evicted the rest to go cause problems someplace else like Israel :rolleyes:

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Here is the mission of the ISAF Youth Championship Sub-Committee. Every point below implies that all ISAF countries and sailors are to be included at this championship. They are probably a significant part of the blame for this incident and not seeing this coming.

 

6.5.6.3 The Youth World Championship Sub-committee shall:

a. be responsible for the planning and approval for the arrangements of the ISAF Youth Sailing World Championship (YSWC) each year;

b. review and maintain the conditions and requirements for the selection of countries and venues to host the ISAF Youth Sailing World Championship;

c. liaise with the Secretary General on matters regarding finance, sponsorship and the contractual arrangements with the host MNA, organizers and suppliers of equipment;

d. be responsible for developing and implementing strategies concerning the equipment to be used in the ISAF Youth Sailing World Championship;

e. be responsible for promoting the ISAF Youth Sailing World Championship as the premier Youth Sailing Event in order to encourage as many countries as possible to participate; and

f. keep under constant review the Championship Guidelines and other relevant information to maintain and improve the quality and standards of the ISAF Youth Sailing World Championship.

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Dancing Bear - my quote doesn't work.

I am sure religion is a huge driver of their problems, so say religion-ism rather than race-ism maybe? Like I said and I maintain still, at this point Israel has something her enemies want and they will always hate *Israelis* regardless of how religious they are. Even if Israel converted to Islam en masse, they STILL would have plenty of enemies. Remember that Jordan got tired of the PLO's endless undermining and killed a metric shit-ton of their coreligionists ;)

I'm sorry, but your last statement is inaccurate as is evidenced by 100s of years of rule by Muslims of that particular area. When Muslims controlled Palestine, other Muslim Caliphates had no problem with that, they were in fact, allied with them most of the time. Sure there are always differences and skirmishes, but I assure you, the problem that these Muslim countries have with Israel, is the fact it is controlled by Jews. Sure, Sunnis and Shiites have been going at it since the second generation of Islam, but when it comes to Israel, neither of them want the Jews to have it. It really is that simple, next to impossible to resolve and compromise, but that simple.

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They seem to be failing hard at (e)!

LOL I thought they may use that as a defense, it says as many as possible, they got all but one competing. ;-)

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looks like the letter campaign is having an impact:

December 29, 2015


Dear U.S. Sailors,

This past week our sport was negatively affected by political actions taken by the Malaysian Sailing Association (MSA), a Member National Authority (MNA) of World Sailing (formerly ISAF). The net result was that the Israeli youth team had restrictions imposed upon it at the Youth Sailing World Championships that no other team had, creating an inferior condition for the Israeli competitors and preventing them from competing as equals on and off of the race course. The Israeli team elected not to compete because of the unequal conditions enforced upon them by the MSA.

We denounce these policies and actions of the MSA that are in direct contradiction to our bylaws and the International Olympic Committee Code of Ethics, which state: There shall be no discrimination between the participants on the basis of race, gender, ethnic origin, religion, philosophical or political opinion, marital status or other grounds.” It is the responsibility of World Sailing to ensure that these conditions are met at all sanctioned international competitions. World Sailing has allowed the regatta to start, without imposing conditions on the MSA, to our knowledge.

The Board of US Sailing provides the following as our opinion on the situation in Malaysia:

We have three concerns. The first is for our sport. US Sailing believes that sailors of all nations are entitled to equal opportunity to compete. This core value of our sport appears to have been violated by the conduct of the MSA, who are managing this event under the authority of World Sailing. Many people have contacted us asking “how can World Sailing allow this to happen?” The fact is that World Sailing may have been as surprised as we were as to the action taken by the MSA because they relied on their vetting process to expose these potential problems. World Sailing has recently (as of last month) changed venues because of concerns about a MNA’s ability to remain apolitical, which we fully supported at the time of the decision.

The problem is that many of the regatta venues were determined years ago, before current political agendas (and willingness to act on those agendas) of some MNAs were detectible (prior to the selection of the venue). World Sailing’s charter is to be inclusive and grow our sport, so they have tried very hard to offer significant regattas to MNAs in non-traditional areas. In the case of Malaysia, it obviously did not work.

Has World Sailing reacted appropriately, once the situation developed? Unfortunately, as of this writing, we do not have the answer for that one. The delegates to World Sailing from the U.S. are working diligently to make our position known, which is: World Sailing must enforce its constitutional charter upon the Malaysian Sailing Authority and all MNAs hosting regattas, and that World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns do not occur for every event on the World Sailing schedule (regattas, conferences, meetings, etc.).

The next Youth World Sailing Championship regatta will be in Oman, followed by Israel in 2017. There is no doubt that a repeat of this breakdown would point to a systemic failure at World Sailing.

Our second concern is for all athletes. US Sailing feels strongly that sports and politics should not mix, and that athletes should not be used for political gain. Therefore, we will not discourage any sailor on the US Sailing Youth World Championship Team from competing in the regatta. US Sailing Board members were victims of the 1980 Olympic boycott and their firsthand experience demonstrates that there is no place in sport for politics. Nothing changed in the world after the boycott of 1980, save more medals for the countries that attended, and none for the countries that did not. We must keep the politics on the front page of the paper and our competitions in the sports section.

Our third concern is for regattas going forward, specifically the ones that our athletes will participate in and those we host in the U.S. World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns will not occur for every scheduled event on the World Sailing schedule. Next month US Sailing will host Sailing World Cup Miami, and three World Championships this February in Clearwater. At both regatta venues US Sailing will ensure that athletes from all countries that qualify for the event compete on an even footing, in accordance with the IOC Code of Ethics, as stated above.

We ask that all of our US Sailing members and volunteers support the leadership of World Sailing and our U.S. delegates thereto. This is a very difficult time for all of them as they deal with MNAs who refuse to be bound by the ethical standards that the rest of the world accepts and lives by. Further, we ask that we have strong support in January and February, when we welcome all sailors and fans to watch the regattas in Miami and Clearwater. Please support our U.S. teams and join us in welcoming all of the international competitors who have traveled to sail in our waters.

From the US Sailing Board of Directors,

Bruce J. Burton
President of US Sailing

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Just received this from US Sailing:

December 29, 2015


Dear U.S. Sailors,

This past week our sport was negatively affected by political actions taken by the Malaysian Sailing Association (MSA), a Member National Authority (MNA) of World Sailing (formerly ISAF). The net result was that the Israeli youth team had restrictions imposed upon it at the Youth Sailing World Championships that no other team had, creating an inferior condition for the Israeli competitors and preventing them from competing as equals on and off of the race course. The Israeli team elected not to compete because of the unequal conditions enforced upon them by the MSA.

We denounce these policies and actions of the MSA that are in direct contradiction to our bylaws and the International Olympic Committee Code of Ethics, which state: There shall be no discrimination between the participants on the basis of race, gender, ethnic origin, religion, philosophical or political opinion, marital status or other grounds.” It is the responsibility of World Sailing to ensure that these conditions are met at all sanctioned international competitions. World Sailing has allowed the regatta to start, without imposing conditions on the MSA, to our knowledge.

The Board of US Sailing provides the following as our opinion on the situation in Malaysia:

We have three concerns. The first is for our sport. US Sailing believes that sailors of all nations are entitled to equal opportunity to compete. This core value of our sport appears to have been violated by the conduct of the MSA, who are managing this event under the authority of World Sailing. Many people have contacted us asking “how can World Sailing allow this to happen?” The fact is that World Sailing may have been as surprised as we were as to the action taken by the MSA because they relied on their vetting process to expose these potential problems. World Sailing has recently (as of last month) changed venues because of concerns about a MNA’s ability to remain apolitical, which we fully supported at the time of the decision.

The problem is that many of the regatta venues were determined years ago, before current political agendas (and willingness to act on those agendas) of some MNAs were detectible (prior to the selection of the venue). World Sailing’s charter is to be inclusive and grow our sport, so they have tried very hard to offer significant regattas to MNAs in non-traditional areas. In the case of Malaysia, it obviously did not work.

Has World Sailing reacted appropriately, once the situation developed? Unfortunately, as of this writing, we do not have the answer for that one. The delegates to World Sailing from the U.S. are working diligently to make our position known, which is: World Sailing must enforce its constitutional charter upon the Malaysian Sailing Authority and all MNAs hosting regattas, and that World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns do not occur for every event on the World Sailing schedule (regattas, conferences, meetings, etc.).

The next Youth World Sailing Championship regatta will be in Oman, followed by Israel in 2017. There is no doubt that a repeat of this breakdown would point to a systemic failure at World Sailing.

Our second concern is for all athletes. US Sailing feels strongly that sports and politics should not mix, and that athletes should not be used for political gain. Therefore, we will not discourage any sailor on the US Sailing Youth World Championship Team from competing in the regatta. US Sailing Board members were victims of the 1980 Olympic boycott and their firsthand experience demonstrates that there is no place in sport for politics. Nothing changed in the world after the boycott of 1980, save more medals for the countries that attended, and none for the countries that did not. We must keep the politics on the front page of the paper and our competitions in the sports section.

Our third concern is for regattas going forward, specifically the ones that our athletes will participate in and those we host in the U.S. World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns will not occur for every scheduled event on the World Sailing schedule. Next month US Sailing will host Sailing World Cup Miami, and three World Championships this February in Clearwater. At both regatta venues US Sailing will ensure that athletes from all countries that qualify for the event compete on an even footing, in accordance with the IOC Code of Ethics, as stated above.

We ask that all of our US Sailing members and volunteers support the leadership of World Sailing and our U.S. delegates thereto. This is a very difficult time for all of them as they deal with MNAs who refuse to be bound by the ethical standards that the rest of the world accepts and lives by. Further, we ask that we have strong support in January and February, when we welcome all sailors and fans to watch the regattas in Miami and Clearwater. Please support our U.S. teams and join us in welcoming all of the international competitors who have traveled to sail in our waters.

From the US Sailing Board of Directors,

Bruce J. Burton
President of US Sailing

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Just received this from US Sailing:

December 29, 2015

Dear U.S. Sailors,

 

This past week our sport was negatively affected by political actions taken by the Malaysian Sailing Association (MSA), a Member National Authority (MNA) of World Sailing (formerly ISAF). The net result was that the Israeli youth team had restrictions imposed upon it at the Youth Sailing World Championships that no other team had, creating an inferior condition for the Israeli competitors and preventing them from competing as equals on and off of the race course. The Israeli team elected not to compete because of the unequal conditions enforced upon them by the MSA.

 

We denounce these policies and actions of the MSA that are in direct contradiction to our bylaws and the International Olympic Committee Code of Ethics, which state: There shall be no discrimination between the participants on the basis of race, gender, ethnic origin, religion, philosophical or political opinion, marital status or other grounds.” It is the responsibility of World Sailing to ensure that these conditions are met at all sanctioned international competitions. World Sailing has allowed the regatta to start, without imposing conditions on the MSA, to our knowledge.

 

The Board of US Sailing provides the following as our opinion on the situation in Malaysia:

 

We have three concerns. The first is for our sport. US Sailing believes that sailors of all nations are entitled to equal opportunity to compete. This core value of our sport appears to have been violated by the conduct of the MSA, who are managing this event under the authority of World Sailing. Many people have contacted us asking “how can World Sailing allow this to happen?” The fact is that World Sailing may have been as surprised as we were as to the action taken by the MSA because they relied on their vetting process to expose these potential problems. World Sailing has recently (as of last month) changed venues because of concerns about a MNA’s ability to remain apolitical, which we fully supported at the time of the decision.

 

The problem is that many of the regatta venues were determined years ago, before current political agendas (and willingness to act on those agendas) of some MNAs were detectible (prior to the selection of the venue). World Sailing’s charter is to be inclusive and grow our sport, so they have tried very hard to offer significant regattas to MNAs in non-traditional areas. In the case of Malaysia, it obviously did not work.

 

Has World Sailing reacted appropriately, once the situation developed? Unfortunately, as of this writing, we do not have the answer for that one. The delegates to World Sailing from the U.S. are working diligently to make our position known, which is: World Sailing must enforce its constitutional charter upon the Malaysian Sailing Authority and all MNAs hosting regattas, and that World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns do not occur for every event on the World Sailing schedule (regattas, conferences, meetings, etc.).

 

The next Youth World Sailing Championship regatta will be in Oman, followed by Israel in 2017. There is no doubt that a repeat of this breakdown would point to a systemic failure at World Sailing.

 

Our second concern is for all athletes. US Sailing feels strongly that sports and politics should not mix, and that athletes should not be used for political gain. Therefore, we will not discourage any sailor on the US Sailing Youth World Championship Team from competing in the regatta. US Sailing Board members were victims of the 1980 Olympic boycott and their firsthand experience demonstrates that there is no place in sport for politics. Nothing changed in the world after the boycott of 1980, save more medals for the countries that attended, and none for the countries that did not. We must keep the politics on the front page of the paper and our competitions in the sports section.

 

Our third concern is for regattas going forward, specifically the ones that our athletes will participate in and those we host in the U.S. World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns will not occur for every scheduled event on the World Sailing schedule. Next month US Sailing will host Sailing World Cup Miami, and three World Championships this February in Clearwater. At both regatta venues US Sailing will ensure that athletes from all countries that qualify for the event compete on an even footing, in accordance with the IOC Code of Ethics, as stated above.

 

We ask that all of our US Sailing members and volunteers support the leadership of World Sailing and our U.S. delegates thereto. This is a very difficult time for all of them as they deal with MNAs who refuse to be bound by the ethical standards that the rest of the world accepts and lives by. Further, we ask that we have strong support in January and February, when we welcome all sailors and fans to watch the regattas in Miami and Clearwater. Please support our U.S. teams and join us in welcoming all of the international competitors who have traveled to sail in our waters.

 

From the US Sailing Board of Directors,

Bruce J. Burton

President of US Sailing

I was hoping for a stronger response. This is not a new issue and the ISAF has a lot of explaining to do given the past history. How about calling for a change to the ISAF constitution requiring that any country or venue that discriminates be removed from membership for 10 yrs?

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How are current Israeli policies toward the Palestinians

different from apartheid in South Africa?

 

Note the divestiture of investments in Israel by many organizations, including the US United Church of Christ.

 

And of course it's quite easy to find examples of racist statements by Israeli leaders directed toward Palestinians.

 

There are two sides (at least) to this issue.

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Just received this from US Sailing:

December 29, 2015

 

Dear U.S. Sailors,

 

This past week our sport was negatively affected by political actions taken by the Malaysian Sailing Association (MSA), a Member National Authority (MNA) of World Sailing (formerly ISAF). The net result was that the Israeli youth team had restrictions imposed upon it at the Youth Sailing World Championships that no other team had, creating an inferior condition for the Israeli competitors and preventing them from competing as equals on and off of the race course. The Israeli team elected not to compete because of the unequal conditions enforced upon them by the MSA.

 

We denounce these policies and actions of the MSA that are in direct contradiction to our bylaws and the International Olympic Committee Code of Ethics, which state: There shall be no discrimination between the participants on the basis of race, gender, ethnic origin, religion, philosophical or political opinion, marital status or other grounds. It is the responsibility of World Sailing to ensure that these conditions are met at all sanctioned international competitions. World Sailing has allowed the regatta to start, without imposing conditions on the MSA, to our knowledge.

 

The Board of US Sailing provides the following as our opinion on the situation in Malaysia:

 

We have three concerns. The first is for our sport. US Sailing believes that sailors of all nations are entitled to equal opportunity to compete. This core value of our sport appears to have been violated by the conduct of the MSA, who are managing this event under the authority of World Sailing. Many people have contacted us asking how can World Sailing allow this to happen? The fact is that World Sailing may have been as surprised as we were as to the action taken by the MSA because they relied on their vetting process to expose these potential problems. World Sailing has recently (as of last month) changed venues because of concerns about a MNAs ability to remain apolitical, which we fully supported at the time of the decision.

 

The problem is that many of the regatta venues were determined years ago, before current political agendas (and willingness to act on those agendas) of some MNAs were detectible (prior to the selection of the venue). World Sailings charter is to be inclusive and grow our sport, so they have tried very hard to offer significant regattas to MNAs in non-traditional areas. In the case of Malaysia, it obviously did not work.

 

Has World Sailing reacted appropriately, once the situation developed? Unfortunately, as of this writing, we do not have the answer for that one. The delegates to World Sailing from the U.S. are working diligently to make our position known, which is: World Sailing must enforce its constitutional charter upon the Malaysian Sailing Authority and all MNAs hosting regattas, and that World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns do not occur for every event on the World Sailing schedule (regattas, conferences, meetings, etc.).

 

The next Youth World Sailing Championship regatta will be in Oman, followed by Israel in 2017. There is no doubt that a repeat of this breakdown would point to a systemic failure at World Sailing.

 

Our second concern is for all athletes. US Sailing feels strongly that sports and politics should not mix, and that athletes should not be used for political gain. Therefore, we will not discourage any sailor on the US Sailing Youth World Championship Team from competing in the regatta. US Sailing Board members were victims of the 1980 Olympic boycott and their firsthand experience demonstrates that there is no place in sport for politics. Nothing changed in the world after the boycott of 1980, save more medals for the countries that attended, and none for the countries that did not. We must keep the politics on the front page of the paper and our competitions in the sports section.

 

Our third concern is for regattas going forward, specifically the ones that our athletes will participate in and those we host in the U.S. World Sailing must ensure that similar MNA breakdowns will not occur for every scheduled event on the World Sailing schedule. Next month US Sailing will host Sailing World Cup Miami, and three World Championships this February in Clearwater. At both regatta venues US Sailing will ensure that athletes from all countries that qualify for the event compete on an even footing, in accordance with the IOC Code of Ethics, as stated above.

 

We ask that all of our US Sailing members and volunteers support the leadership of World Sailing and our U.S. delegates thereto. This is a very difficult time for all of them as they deal with MNAs who refuse to be bound by the ethical standards that the rest of the world accepts and lives by. Further, we ask that we have strong support in January and February, when we welcome all sailors and fans to watch the regattas in Miami and Clearwater. Please support our U.S. teams and join us in welcoming all of the international competitors who have traveled to sail in our waters.

 

From the US Sailing Board of Directors,

Bruce J. Burton

President of US Sailing

I was hoping for a stronger response. This is not a new issue and the ISAF has a lot of explaining to do given the past history. How about calling for a change to the ISAF constitution requiring that any country or venue that discriminates be removed from membership for 10 yrs?

Banning a country harms the athletes. Banning the country from hosting for 10 years and notifying other sports authorities of the action might achieve the same goal without hurting the athletes.

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How are current Israeli policies toward the Palestinians

different from apartheid in South Africa?

 

Note the divestiture of investments in Israel by many organizations, including the US United Church of Christ.

 

And of course it's quite easy to find examples of racist statements by Israeli leaders directed toward Palestinians.

 

There are two sides (at least) to this issue.

 

 

if you go down that road.., you can end up with almost no international competition at all

 

every country is hated by someone

 

it's best just to state as a principle that international sport is above all international disputes

 

having Israel compete on even terms in islamic nations does no actual harm.., and may do some good

 

just leave it at that

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How are current Israeli policies toward the Palestinians

different from apartheid in South Africa?

 

Note the divestiture of investments in Israel by many organizations, including the US United Church of Christ.

 

And of course it's quite easy to find examples of racist statements by Israeli leaders directed toward Palestinians.

 

There are two sides (at least) to this issue.

I have not seen any one on this thread state that the Israeli government are angel's. Far from it - many of their practices are despicable in my view.

 

But so too are the actions of many (all) governments. The point here is that athletics should not be impacted by politics. Athletes should not suffer or face unequal opportunity on the playing field just because a government behaves badly. And that principle should be applied equitably

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The real issue here is that Malaysia isn't giving visas to Israeli sailors. It's true they don't like Israelis, but lots of countries don't like other countries, but they still give them visas. That's in violation the bylaws of the event. We can't solve all of the problems in the middle east, but we should require hosting countries to follow the rules of the event and allow all countries to attend.

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One of the most basic actions that any of us can take is stop buying things produced in Malaysia. Hit their bottom line.

 

also while I'm on this soap box..... don't buy any Ford automobiles. Henry Ford wasn't exactly "pro-Jew"

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Friends who travel internationally extensively report that they have 2 Passports (which you're not supposed to do). If you visit Israel, and the book is stamped, then travel to any of the Arab countries, they will put you on an airplane immediately and not let you into their country. So they produce their "other" passport and go right through.

 

This situation is not distinct to Israel sailors and Malaysia, this situation affects those who aren't even tangentialy connected to the differences between Israel and Arabic countries and are either visiting for holiday or conducting business.

 

The world has a long way to go to getting things right.

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How are current Israeli policies toward the Palestinians

different from apartheid in South Africa?

 

Note the divestiture of investments in Israel by many organizations, including the US United Church of Christ.

 

And of course it's quite easy to find examples of racist statements by Israeli leaders directed toward Palestinians.

 

There are two sides (at least) to this issue.

But the pitchforks are sharpened. Israeli is now a race and not a citizenship. Judaism is also now a race and not a religion. Are Jewish sailors from outside of Israel being told they cannot compete due to their religion? This is a political issue and not a 'racist' issue as so many scream from the tree tops.

 

Israel <> Judaism.

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As US Sailings letter from President Bruce Burton has already been posted here, I have decided to share my response to him. It is my opinion, not necessarily right or wrong, but valid as mine:

 

Dear Mr. Burton: Your limpid commentary and ​modest protestations about Malaysia's transgressions, coupled with your ​assertion that "we will not discourage any sailor on the US Sailing Youth World Championship Team from competing..."​, exemplifies an ethical and moral malaise that is ​both wrong and all too prevalent in today's world. A country, a people,was targeted for religious, territorial, and political effect; ​That is wrong, no matter whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. ​You try to equivocate and state that "US Sailing feels strongly that sports and politics should not mix​"​, but once Malaysia brought politics to the table, action was required. The ​insufficiency of ​your response, or ​your ​provision of ​mild rhetoric at the most, is an embarrassment to you, the Board of Directors, and to US Sailing. ​And to me as a member​.

 

You ​go on to ask if World Sailing reacted appropriately, once the situation developed. It is apparent to me that this situation has been a known issue for ​ more than 2 months, so the answer clearly is NO. Note the following from Sail-World:

 

"From information obtained by Sail-World it is clear that the ISAF/World Sailing had been aware of the Israeli visa situation for three months at least and had been trying to resolve the impasse between the conflict with the Malaysian Sailing Association, the Malaysian Government and satisfy the requirements of the World Sailing Youth Championship which allowed open entry to all countries, including Israel...In mid-October, the request for entry was made by the Malaysian Sailing Association to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, a government body charged with the issuing of entry visas. The request for the visa for the Israelis was rejected two weeks later, on November 5 by the Malaysian Government on security grounds...A further meeting took place on November 30, but with the same outcome as the November 5 meeting – Visas were refused for the Israeli Youth Team on security grounds...The matter was then escalated to the Malaysian Cabinet..."

 

This information demonstrates that World Sailing was aware of the issue for months, but most importantly, it demonstrates that US Sailing has ​also ​been aware​ and had time to discuss and formulate a plan​. As a leading sailing organization in the USA, your actions count, and these actions show that you chose to ​give this a pass ​instead of rising to stand for what is right in this world: US Sailing chose to hide behind bland blathering ​and simply ​denounce policies ​while also making excuses by stating "The problem is that many of the regatta venues were determined years ago". Well, that's the way it works, but it does not mitigate what transpired.

​The United States has historically been a world leader in matters of freedom, human rights, and ​at it's finest, has acted with moral character. Some people feel that we are slipping. You evidence it. US Sailing needs to change stance, accept a position of meaningful leadership that moves it's head from the self-serving sand, and views and interacts with the world as it is today; develop a backbone.
Sincerely...

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Regarding traveling to Israel and then Muslim countries: its easier than 2 passports. While they don't like it, I've had Israeli customs/immigration just stamp a blank piece of paper in my passport.

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"I have not seen any one on this thread state that the Israeli government are angel's. Far from it - many of their practices are despicable in my view."

 

The ONLY question here is: have the Israeli athletes done something "despicable?" Is the question whether or not these athletes are "angels" ?

 

Right. I didn't think so.

 

If anyone wants to discuss the history, ins and outs of the decades-long disputes between Arab countries and their allies with Israel, I'd be happy to provide extensive reading lists and then have a discussion. And no I do not think Israeli governments have been "angels."

 

But let's run through the list of the actions and policies of every other country in the Middle East, and for that matter in the entire world, and start discussing whether their athletes should be discriminated against in international sports competitions. How shall we make the list? Regionally? Alphabetically? It will be a long list of countries whose actions are arguably "despicable" .

 

Turkey? Saudi Arabia? China (want to ban their athletes? China has occupied Tibet longer than Israel has occupied the West Bank)? Morocco (still occupying Western Sahara)? Pakistan ? Syria ?

 

Want me to go on? No, I didn't think so.

 

This is a binary question - you either start down this path or you don't.

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ISAF knew well in advance that the team from Israel would not be able to sail with their country flag. If they placed, their national anthem would not be played. The other teams were there weeks in advance to practice yet 24 hours before the start of the regatta, the Israeli team did not have Visas to travel to Malaysia.

 

Teaching the next generation of sailors that it's OK to discriminate? Horrible!

 

For the last 10 years I have volunteered...with my boat for the Miami OCR/ISAF World Cup. Sometimes...I'd find two boats for our course. As of this morning...I have resigned my position at the ISAF Miami event. Several of my team members are pulling out as well in support of my position and against discrimination!

 

The fact that US Sailing has not commented is deplorable and unacceptable as well. They seem to not care. Sailing as a fair and impartial sport is only a matter of history. The current environment does not promote either fair or impartial. Good bye.

US Sailing is taking its sweet ass time, though part of that is just getting everyone on the phone when they are overseas or skiing. And i salute your stand against ISAF on this. Looking forward to buying you a drink next time I see you.

 

GN4478,

 

Could you post those e-mail addresses here?

Jack Gierhardt promised me a statement from US Sailing "as quickly as we possibly can" yesterday morning.

 

Expecting US Sailing to do anything substantial is laughable. They still have national events hosted at clubs with exclusionary membership practices (no Women, Blacks, or Jews), even though these practices have been pointed out to them formally in the past. The response from US Sailing has always been nothing more than gloss to try to ignore it further.

 

Which clubs that you are referencing have stated their policy on this?

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One of the most basic actions that any of us can take is stop buying things produced in Malaysia. Hit their bottom line.

 

also while I'm on this soap box..... don't buy any Ford automobiles. Henry Ford wasn't exactly "pro-Jew"

Does the fact that today the President and CEO (and Boardmember) of Ford Motor Company is a Jew make any difference to you? The first ever Jewish President of a U.S. big three auto maker?

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US Sailing's letter seems a little like they want to have it both ways. Vehemently protest, but let the event go on.

 

Welcome to the politically correct world. It is very clear that World Sailing is dysfunctional given their inability to keep a manager. The real leverage is with the national sailing orgs. and the IOC. If the IOC gets involved there will be some quick action by World Sailing.

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"I have not seen any one on this thread state that the Israeli government are angel's. Far from it - many of their practices are despicable in my view."

 

The ONLY question here is: have the Israeli athletes done something "despicable?" Is the question whether or not these athletes are "angels" ?

 

Right. I didn't think so.

 

If anyone wants to discuss the history, ins and outs of the decades-long disputes between Arab countries and their allies with Israel, I'd be happy to provide extensive reading lists and then have a discussion. And no I do not think Israeli governments have been "angels."

 

But let's run through the list of the actions and policies of every other country in the Middle East, and for that matter in the entire world, and start discussing whether their athletes should be discriminated against in international sports competitions. How shall we make the list? Regionally? Alphabetically? It will be a long list of countries whose actions are arguably "despicable" .

 

Turkey? Saudi Arabia? China (want to ban their athletes? China has occupied Tibet longer than Israel has occupied the West Bank)? Morocco (still occupying Western Sahara)? Pakistan ? Syria ?

 

Want me to go on? No, I didn't think so.

 

This is a binary question - you either start down this path or you don't.

I agree 100%

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Be careful about throwing stones. The policy statements of one politician shouldn't be representative of a whole society (thankfully!). What frightens me is the US citiezenry's substantial support of a politician that wants to impose the same ban curently being eviscerated.

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poll-trumps-muslim-ban-widely-supported-among-republicans/article/2577987

 

Does anyone think US Sailing would be able to overcome this (hypothetical) upswell if taken to its natural conclusion?

 

Im no fan of ISAF, but I think we all need to recognize the complexities of international diplomacy.

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While politics and sports shouldn't mix, one thing to consider is that Malaysia is among those countries that doesn't recognize Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel

 

While I disagree with Malaysia's position, I can see why they may have a problem politically with displaying the flag or the playing of the national anthem of a nation they do not recognize as existing since doing so may imply they DO recognize Israel as a nation.

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How fucked up is our sport!...

 

back in the day world champs were held by yacht clubs and you fronted with your boat (or a rented boat) sailed with just sail numbers and no bullshite!

 

There was none of this "PC BULLSHITE' and certainly ISAF and governments were not involved.

 

Wasnt the 470 worlds just held in Haifa FFS!...

 

Sailing is full of wankers, over zealous regulation, financial influence/s, and controlling bodies who are funded to get the best marketing "look' ahead of a great event And good sailing!. Or even a increAse in participatioN.

 

Just look at the olympics!... its just full of rich young wankers whos mommy and daddy can afford to send them to world wide regattas to race, or qualify their country for the olympics... until they are good enough for the "proffesional arm' of the sport to fund them.

 

It used to be about the private amateurs and sailing. Now it is just money. Controll, politics, regulations...

 

Thats why the sport does not grow and people just own a boat and sail ( not race) without being a member of any club.

 

Most ( not all) Yacht racing ( regattas) are like the AC... just over hyped expensive boredom....

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How fucked up is our sport!...

 

back in the day world champs were held by yacht clubs and you fronted with your boat (or a rented boat) sailed with just sail numbers and no bullshite!

 

There was none of this "PC BULLSHITE' and certainly ISAF and governments were not involved.

 

Wasnt the 470 worlds just held in Haifa FFS!...

 

Sailing is full of wankers, over zealous regulation, financial influence/s, and controlling bodies who are funded to get the best marketing "look' ahead of a great event And good sailing!. Or even a increAse in participatioN.

 

Just look at the olympics!... its just full of rich young wankers whos mommy and daddy can afford to send them to world wide regattas to race, or qualify their country for the olympics... until they are good enough for the "proffesional arm' of the sport to fund them.

 

It used to be about the private amateurs and sailing. Now it is just money. Controll, politics, regulations...

 

Thats why the sport does not grow and people just own a boat and sail ( not race) without being a member of any club.

 

Most ( not all) Yacht racing ( regattas) are like the AC... just over hyped expensive boredom....

+1

 

In fact, I think that applies to almost every sport these days that has a professional arm to aspire to.

 

In Canada it's probably even worse with hockey. I don't know if kids even play on frozen ponds any more (more likely aren't allowed to). Parent's spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in the hopes little Johnny will some day earn millions playing in the NHL..

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US Sailing is pretty wishy-washy, and I doubt there will be any kind of principled stance coming from them. After all, they don't have any problem sending sailors to compete in a cess pool.

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Uss is right, asking or forcing the sailors to back out would hurt them, not send a strong message or enact change.

 

Not allowing msa to host another event, and trying to get other organizations/sports to do the same, would be a far better solution.

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As much as people like sport to exist in a bubble, it does not. Washington boycotted an entire Olympic games to protest the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan so perhaps those complaining now don't like them apples? Many in NZ took a stand and protested a rugby tour with South Africa in '81 when they were an apartheid country to a message. Applying pressure via sport has precedent, the question is one of whether it is justified or not, and to be clear I do not want to see kids suffer for the sins of their fathers. I also see a very complex political issue and humanitarian disaster in the Palestinian territories so perhaps a couple of Israeli kids not being able to fly their national flag is not such a big deal in comparison.

 

If Malaysia told the GBR youth windsurfing representatives that they could only get a visa for Youth Worlds if they signed a legal agreement that they wouldn't put the union jack or "GBR" on their sails and if they signed a 'gag order' that said they could be arrested if they talked or wrote about it, would you be OK with that? Assume that no other nation has had to go through anything like this.

 

If so, are you OK with black nations being told they can sail, but only if they wear all-white clothing, gloves, and hats at all times in public?

 

 

Would I be ok with gag orders? No not in this case, I really dont know enough to make a truly informed comment about the specific reasons for the sanctions but on the face of it the principle is sound. It is false equivalence to throw in GBR as an example, unless they had their own Gaza like situation which they don't. This also has nothing to do with black nations being told what to wear, it is designed to bring political pressure and attention to a humanitarian crisis. (I would hope, if its plain old racism disguised as a moral stand then I strongly disagree with it)

 

Are you ok if Daesh fields a youth sailing team in the same regatta? Would you boycott them or would you fight for their right to sail? After all its only a matter of perspective.

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How fucked up is our sport!...

 

back in the day world champs were held by yacht clubs and you fronted with your boat (or a rented boat) sailed with just sail numbers and no bullshite!

 

There was none of this "PC BULLSHITE' and certainly ISAF and governments were not involved.

 

Wasnt the 470 worlds just held in Haifa FFS!...

 

Sailing is full of wankers, over zealous regulation, financial influence/s, and controlling bodies who are funded to get the best marketing "look' ahead of a great event And good sailing!. Or even a increAse in participatioN.

 

Just look at the olympics!... its just full of rich young wankers whos mommy and daddy can afford to send them to world wide regattas to race, or qualify their country for the olympics... until they are good enough for the "proffesional arm' of the sport to fund them.

 

It used to be about the private amateurs and sailing. Now it is just money. Controll, politics, regulations...

 

Thats why the sport does not grow and people just own a boat and sail ( not race) without being a member of any club.

 

Most ( not all) Yacht racing ( regattas) are like the AC... just over hyped expensive boredom....

 

How true, the problem is that when there is an international spotlight on a sporting event all the vultures see it as a way to make money or gain power (FIFA anyone?)

 

I would love competitions that were not composed of nations but simply sailors, have a look as the Sydney Hobart thread and see the flag waving going on there, anyone would think America won rather than the boat and fantastic crew. Sure take some national pride, its well deserved but with all nationalism there is a downside and the issue in Malaysia is a glaring example.

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As much as people like sport to exist in a bubble, it does not. Washington boycotted an entire Olympic games to protest the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan so perhaps those complaining now don't like them apples? Many in NZ took a stand and protested a rugby tour with South Africa in '81 when they were an apartheid country to a message. Applying pressure via sport has precedent, the question is one of whether it is justified or not, and to be clear I do not want to see kids suffer for the sins of their fathers. I also see a very complex political issue and humanitarian disaster in the Palestinian territories so perhaps a couple of Israeli kids not being able to fly their national flag is not such a big deal in comparison.

 

If Malaysia told the GBR youth windsurfing representatives that they could only get a visa for Youth Worlds if they signed a legal agreement that they wouldn't put the union jack or "GBR" on their sails and if they signed a 'gag order' that said they could be arrested if they talked or wrote about it, would you be OK with that? Assume that no other nation has had to go through anything like this.

 

If so, are you OK with black nations being told they can sail, but only if they wear all-white clothing, gloves, and hats at all times in public?

 

 

Would I be ok with gag orders? No not in this case, I really dont know enough to make a truly informed comment about the specific reasons for the sanctions but on the face of it the principle is sound. It is false equivalence to throw in GBR as an example, unless they had their own Gaza like situation which they don't. This also has nothing to do with black nations being told what to wear, it is designed to bring political pressure and attention to a humanitarian crisis.

 

Are you ok if Daesh fields a youth sailing team in the same regatta? Would you boycott them or would you fight for their right to sail? After all its only a matter of perspective.

 

It is not a sound principle that a host country for a world championship sporting event gets to decide unilaterally who gets to participate and under what conditions.

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Fair comment, a principled approach would have been to tell ISAF upfront and this is one reason why I don't feel comfortable with their approach, another is the antisemitism that is everpresent in many Islamic cultures. This is an issue that will come up so we as a sailing community will have to deal with it. I am getting pretty weary of the middle east turning up in my daily life!

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