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lindy 911

Texas Centerboard Circuit 2016

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From Lindy,

If we use the assumed DPN of 78.5 and factor the .995, it gives 78.89 as an average without applying Beaufort.

?????????????

Numbers numbers

If you add a larger spinnaker to your boat that takes a penalty of.995 then your number goes from 78.5 to 77.5. Not 78.89

 

The Distance race format is the worst for running a pursuit portsmouth rated event.. Think about it. If the numbers are based on an hour race and you have a race that lasts a minimum of two hours, (my time at the last BTF) and maximum of over three plus hours, the faster boats just get farther and farther ahead. AC's and VX's should win every time.

 

The same problem is true for the 30 minute race that takes the winner 18 minutes to finish which is very common on our circuit. The faster rated boats, AC's although they may win by over a leg of the course can not get far enough ahead to ever correct out over the slower rated boats, BW's, ever.

 

Worst yet is the difference that wind strength has over some boats ratings. The extremes are the Contender. 90-82 when it blows. Lindy you think your FS rating is great. 89.6 - 92 in light air. (2.4 points) Try the AC number we have been using 76.1 to the Contenders 90.4 when it blows so hard that we don't use our chutes. Running short courses. (14.3 points) And we are giving the Weta's time with their screachers. REALLY!!!!!!!!!

 

There is no perfect solution to the ratings game. There is however serious problems with how we have scored our races in the past. Hopefully people will have fun thinking they just may have a chance to get a trophy if we make some needed changes. That seems to be more the focus lately.

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Big D, I'm assuming that you are asking to use DP-Ns this year?

 

If we can get the start/finish times for everyone and average wind speed, we can do whatever we like for ratings. I don't see why we can't use DP-Ns this year, but we need to be clear before the season starts what we will use for the year.

 

Lindy, I don't mind keeping and calculating the scores for the season. I already have everything set up, and I can give people access to score should I become unavailable.

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duwke

I have no clue what post's you are reading but you just don't seem to be getting it. I have tried to explain how the numbers and racing is supposed to work and why it doesn't at times. I don't know how to explain it in any other way. Just wondering why possibly our numbers are down, the same boats seem to win all the time, and there seems to be confusion about results continually. i'll go back to my hole now. Later DG

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is anyone going to the opening day brunch before the race, or are we invited

we are kind of the redheaded step-children of the racing scene.

I'd love to hang out before if the weather is nice.

 

It's an open invitation to anyone that is participating or even just walking by...lol. So please feel free.

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Big D,

 

I corrected that post myself a few posts later on the same day. It's my understanding that you multiplied the rating by the penalty. So 78.5 x .995 would be 78.1. Not sure where you got 77.5. Maybe we can get together after the races Sunday and discuss these issues.

 

I never suggested that the Wetas be given any more time, quite the opposite. If you read my post to Darin regarding his rating, I replied that the Wetas are rated to slow as it stands. My reasoning was that he and John both beat probably the best sailor at Wurstfest in 20+ knots. I'm not taking anything away from either Darin or John, but I finished two point behind the same guy and we didn't even fly the spinnaker the first five races. Either the Wetas are rated too slow or the Aero is rated too fast. My guess is, based on the margin of finish times, the Weta is too slow. Since the USS folks have gone dormant, It's hard to get any data worth a crap.

 

So that leaves us to make our own numbers.

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hey.texas centerboarders,Ecat here. Been following the conversation and am thinking of joining up for a couple of races.Just bought an old but good force five and hoping they're some lasers or other small boats with similar portsmouth #s I can maybe be competitve with.I will probably be dead last but it would be fun to get together with some other dinghy sailors anyway.Not that much small boat sailing going on in my part of texas.Also would really like to see the canoes and wetas in action.Can someone tell me how much it will cost to participate in the race at conroe? Any other fees besides the 20 dollars to join TCC?

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Bring it!, Joshua started his addiction with one! And dead last is a hotly contested trophy when I'm there, you'll see. It's 60$ for early reg at CYC, worth every penny for the steak burgers and kegs, and comradery. It's on the link page, see ya then.

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ecat, Since we're a Portsmouth fleet, no worry about sailing an F-5. If you sail well, you'll do well. Conroe is our first big event of the year. It's a two day race with dinner and breakfast served along with plenty of room to camp. Ping the CYC site @ www.conroeyachtclub.com or the TCC site @ www.texascenterboard.org Both sites have the NOR. Should be a lot of fun and a big crowd. Tell you friends.

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Hey Ortega,what are you sailing at Conroe?---The AC,laser 2,or laser? Cant imagine I could keep up with the AC but might be able to keep close to a std laser.Also couldn't find a pay link on the cyc website.Could I just pay when I get there?

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Always the AC, maybe some summer race the L2 with the wifey, and unless it's really gunna blow then the Laser Hansen. If you fax or email Lindy sure he'll let you be early reg. See ya soon

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TCC Registered Sailors as of 3-3-2016

 

David Gilliland

Darin Keever

Derek McKesson

Larry Sowle

Nisha Limaye

Mike Mashl

Mike Lindstrom

JB North

Jennifer Loehlin

Norman Meyer

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I can come if sundy, and where's results from AYC?, no, not for me, I won DFL again. Boom is at Gilliland boatwerks for being broke in half.

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Curious about yesterday as well. Hope you all had fun. While climbing down from the bow of my Sprint, I lost my footing and fell. Fortunately an ama broke my fall. Unfortunately, my rib cage took the impact. I make unmanly noises when I move around.

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Curious about yesterday as well. Hope you all had fun. While climbing down from the bow of my Sprint, I lost my footing and fell. Fortunately an ama broke my fall. Unfortunately, my rib cage took the impact. I make unmanly noises when I move around.

 

Broken ribs? How long you out for?

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I will give y'all my report on the fun. We left around 1:30 to make a start that was 6th out of 6 fleets. Sailin around with all the leadmines was fun, they seem to be astounded most of the time that we sail alone, and they think we should moveover for them at all times. We sat around till at least 2:30 when they big fast scary phrfa boats left in front of us, Big D and I watched 1 J70 smoke the whole fleet on a port tack flyer so we thought we'd do the same to our start. Course didn't quite work that way, never saw anyone 'cept the yellow weta, he and I went right, might not have been the best choice. Seemed to be getting closer on the crosses as I chased Theo, Crump and Big D, and then YW, rounded in front of me, was flyin along and got a lull so raised the kite. Really flyin now, and even successfully gybed her 3-4 times! Of course, while catchin up to Theo, went to make another gybe, and promptly gusted and knocked down. Attempting to avoid falling into freezing water, proceeded to fall straight down on boom, broke in half. So had to swim in freezing, lots of no fun getting boat un turtled and kite back in, sailed home with no boom, but all good. Happy as pee that that's all wrong, felt good and think am getting better. See ya soon! 'Course Gilliland boat werks has boom, will be ready by BTF!

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OK folks, The moment you've all been waiting for. The results from Sundays shortened distance race at AYC.

 

Name

Boat

Rating

Finish time

Elapsed time/sec’s

Handicapped time/sec’s

Finish position

John

Weta

78.5

15:08:24

3504

4464

2nd

 

Weta

78.5

15:09:45

3585

4567

4th

Dave

A/C

76

15:09:56

3596

4731

6th

Theo

J18

86.4

15:12:10

3730

4317

1st

Jenny

Harpoon

96

15:21:43

4303

4482

3rd

Cass

I420

97.6

15:26:12

4572

4684

5th

Mike

Sunfish

99.6

15:29:09

4749

4768

7th

Derek

A/C

76

DNF

9999

9999

8th

 

 

Start time was 14:10

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I thought we agreed AC rated 79.1? Not that it would make any diff in mine? But my calcs show big d in 2nd or third.

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Curious about yesterday as well. Hope you all had fun. While climbing down from the bow of my Sprint, I lost my footing and fell. Fortunately an ama broke my fall. Unfortunately, my rib cage took the impact. I make unmanly noises when I move around.

 

Broken ribs? How long you out for?

 

 

I don't think so. My well-defined obliques love handles probably helped.

 

I hope to make BTF.

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That's funny. The end of my last boom did result in my crew's broken ribs, so that's good news to avoid that pain. Everything hurts with broken ribs. Especially laughing. So no jokes people!

 

Can I lobby for us to figure out Saturday vs. Sunday by the end of this week? The changing of the days changes things a lot on our end as Theo has to work Sat and I have crew dilemmas to work out, baby care, my pre sailing mediation routine, carb loading, etc.

 

Claire

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I thought we agreed AC rated 79.1? Not that it would make any diff in mine? But my calcs show big d in 2nd or third.

Hi Derek, I had thought you were funning me. even so... elapsed time of 3596 seconds x 100 = 359600 divided by 79.1 = 4596 seconds = 4th

FM

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No funnin, if a DC can sail at 79.1 so shall we. Seems more than fair, I sail almost exactly as fast as a weta to windward, and with kite, about same downwind. So much can go wrong on our AC raising, dousing, gybing, no real advantage. I just want a chance at a trophy someday. And yer calcs are perfect, 4th is better than 6th!

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Yes, it was much fun, really amazing watching the face of the crew on a J70 as you pass OVER their stern on end of seat. But I try and stay away as much as possible, they don't seem to turn as well as us. Can't wait for BTF!

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No funnin, if a DC can sail at 79.1 so shall we. Seems more than fair, I sail almost exactly as fast as a weta to windward, and with kite, about same downwind. So much can go wrong on our AC raising, dousing, gybing, no real advantage. I just want a chance at a trophy someday. And yer calcs are perfect, 4th is better than 6th!

I just made it a point to make sure we had the raw times, I did the calc's as they have been done in the past. We've used that 76 rating for the A/C several years now. I agree that the rating should not be the same for the new rules boats as it is for the old Nethercott hulls.

 

 

My question to you is "what should mine or John's IC rate", should it be the same as yours? I'm not the commodore this year and we don't have any type of formal board to discuss or apply to for relief from ratings issues other then talking about them here. The RC's at the clubs we sail at don't know how to score us properly most of the time. They try to do their best, some do better then others, some even use wind ratings (which the Weta doesn't have and the Weta is considerably faster in big breeze). I know I can't or don't even come close to sailing the canoe to it's rating. Should a fiberglass International 420 with a trap rate the same as a heavy plastic club 420 without a spin or traps? According to US sailing they do. Should I put a large asymmetrical on my Contender and expect the same rating as with out it? Should your Hansen sail on your Laser rate the same as a regular Laser? We know in our hearts that the rating should changed to reflect the changes made in the boats and it is pretty much a guesstimate with out a good set of data points from having accurate records taking and turned in to US sailing by the race committees.

 

My hat is off to you Derek for sailing one of the hardest boats to sail out there. You sure keep after it and there is no quit in you that is for sure! Trying to lake sail a A/C in the crazy shifty winds we have is next to impossible. How Big D manages it I don't know but it takes serious skills to do it well. I have never felt comfortable sailing my IC in competition (yet). Trying to race my IC, I felt I was possibly dangerously out of control at times and worried about hitting other boats at the start or mark roundings.

 

The US sailing system is sadly outdated and it has been bitched about mightly for years on SA and elsewhere. To the point of racing Portsmouth was about as much fun as being kissed by that nasty old aunt Nellie. When we start changing the rules US sailing has in place we go down a very slippery slope. That is why when I was commodore I tried to stress the social side, win the party and make friends. The make up of the TCC has been changing rapidly these last few years with new faster boats coming out to play with us (that don't have accurate ratings).We have to live with how the clubs score us, the courses they set for us and be glad they let us come out and play with them.

 

On a lighter note. Austin Yacht Club has reached out to us (the TCC) and offered us a start in the weekly series races. I have always felt races were very hard to come by and I was glad/grateful to have the opportunity to come out and race without being a member of the club.

 

That's all I have for now, take care all!

FM

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No funnin, if a DC can sail at 79.1 so shall we. Seems more than fair, I sail almost exactly as fast as a weta to windward, and with kite, about same downwind. So much can go wrong on our AC raising, dousing, gybing, no real advantage. I just want a chance at a trophy someday. And yer calcs are perfect, 4th is better than 6th!

I just made it a point to make sure we had the raw times, I did the calc's as they have been done in the past. We've used that 76 rating for the A/C several years now. I agree that the rating should not be the same for the new rules boats as it is for the old Nethercott hulls.

 

 

My question to you is "what should mine or John's IC rate", should it be the same as yours? I'm not the commodore this year and we don't have any type of formal board to discuss or apply to for relief from ratings issues other then talking about them here. The RC's at the clubs we sail at don't know how to score us properly most of the time. They try to do their best, some do better then others, some even use wind ratings (which the Weta doesn't have and the Weta is considerably faster in big breeze). I know I can't or don't even come close to sailing the canoe to it's rating. Should a fiberglass International 420 with a trap rate the same as a heavy plastic club 420 without a spin or traps? According to US sailing they do. Should I put a large asymmetrical on my Contender and expect the same rating as with out it? Should your Hansen sail on your Laser rate the same as a regular Laser? We know in our hearts that the rating should changed to reflect the changes made in the boats and it is pretty much a guesstimate with out a good set of data points from having accurate records taking and turned in to US sailing by the race committees.

 

My hat is off to you Derek for sailing one of the hardest boats to sail out there. You sure keep after it and there is no quit in you that is for sure! Trying to lake sail a A/C in the crazy shifty winds we have is next to impossible (as you well know). How Big D manages it I don't know but it takes serious skills to do it well. I have never felt comfortable sailing my IC in competition (yet). Trying to race my IC, I felt I was possibly dangerously out of control at times and worried about hitting other boats at the start or mark roundings.

 

The US sailing system is sadly outdated and it has been bitched about mightly for years on SA and elsewhere. To the point of racing Portsmouth was about as much fun as being kissed by that nasty old aunt Nellie. When we start changing the rules US sailing has in place we go down a very slippery slope. That is why when I was commodore I tried to stress the social side, win the party and make friends. The make up of the TCC has been changing rapidly these last few years with new faster boats coming out to play with us (that don't have accurate ratings).We have to live with how the clubs score us, the courses they set for us and be glad they let us come out and play with them.

 

On a lighter note. Austin Yacht Club has reached out to us (the TCC) and offered us a start in the weekly series races. I have always felt races were very hard to come by and I was glad/grateful to have the opportunity to come out and race without being a member of the club.

 

That's all I have for now, take care all!

FM

 

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You all know me, I sail for beer fun only. But once, just once, I'd like a shot at a trophy, so if we can all agree on a 79.1, that's what I'll sail to, and yes, USA204 and yer's will be the same, as is Big D's. Even when machete shows up and kills us with his 79.1 rating, all good. All the points you make are straight up, and we can agree, my point was to try and even things out a little, no worries.

 

 

But now, more important stuff: BTF is now on Sunday, 20th!, skippers meeting at 11;00 race at 12. Lets sail!

Rec'd conformation just now from Steve Wesson SSC.

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Ok,member when I sailed with the Hansen at spring ding a few years back, we all agreed that my rating would be 89.1 instead of laser 90.1. So how about IC 79.1, AC 78.1, I think that is fair, what y'all say? The only reason we ever used 76 was by a voluntary interpretation of RYA numbers, USSa does not have an IC(a) rating

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You betcha I remember, I'm gonna sit on my hands for a bit and let some of the others chime in. I do remember you really legging it out last weekend off of the start line before the breeze piped up. You can observe a lot from the back. lol

FM

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FM

I'll take the bait and chime in on a couple of points.

1. you said ".We have to live with how the clubs score us, the courses they set for us and be glad they let us come out and play with them."

The hell we do. We were not a priority last weekend at opening day. This was a big boat event. There were 5 starts of big boats. We had to negotiate a course that was then shortened. There is no need to compete with keel boats. Looking at our schedule we have two more big boat regattas at AYC we have tagged on to. This in my opinion is not helpful to the TCC. Turnback and Govenors Cup are big boat regattas. Austins centerboard regatta is the only other race we should sail there.

2. you said ". When we start changing the rules US sailing has in place we go down a very slippery slope."

If you are talking about ratings used by clubs you are dead wrong. We can change our numbers to whatever we want based on the results of our racing. Boats are rated differently all over the country. I have tried to explain to no effect to you and Dwuke why things don't work some of the time to deaf ears. If you read my posts you can't miss my points. If you don't agree thats fine but you get it or you don't. It's really not that hard.

3. you said " I have always felt races were very hard to come by and I was glad/grateful to have the opportunity to come out and race"

I'm glad you are grateful. I guess i'm just spoiled after racing all over the world and seeing how things can be. Some places they actually bid to host regattas they want there. There are places including my home club that have in the past taken your money and put on a shitty regatta. There are places that actually have a centerboard, and then a week later have a keelboat version regatta. "Wurstfest" "Lighthouse"

 

The TCC is what we as a group make it. We can rate our boats however we want. We can race whatever courses we want. If we don't have that kind of pull we are not racing the right places. . Sail what you love. Have fun. Later

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Cantankerous or not, he is dead right. Conferring with my friends in UK, they told me that they have a meeting before each race and agree on the ratings they are going to use, and change them as everyone can agree on. Seems simple to me... So me and my Stella GBR 266 (79.1), will see all yer happy faces at BTF Sumday the 20th.

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And thx Mikey, I know I'm getting better each and every time I sail my favorite boat of all time. She is rewarding and exhausting as usual. Maybe, just maybe, we can all get along and have a beer in a week or so. I'll sail with any of ya anytime, ratings be damned. I took my meds, so no more high blood pressure for me, happy Thursday all.

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my plane lands at 9:28 in Austin on Sunday the 20th, so if someone comes to pick up my boat, get it to the lake, and get the mast up, I'll come bring up the rear... oh wait pursuit, So i'd have to start on Saturday... never mind.

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...and I'm sorry if they shortened our course on Sunday because I was sailing too slow and they Didn't want to wait for me. I was still having fun. I'll get someone to crew next time so i can go downwind faster (or wipe out spectacularly).

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Sorry. No more ranting. I've said to much.

 

I wasn't trying to shut you down, just not very happy with the tone.

 

I think we all agree that, as long as we can get the times, we can score ourselves however we want. As I said, I'll do the scoring.

 

Who wants to be the "rating committee?" :)

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I DO, I DO, wetas now 60.5, contenders 70.5, ic's 80.5, j18 65.5, see all fixed. Now on a serious note: when commodore gets back from DC, sure we can set up sumthin.

And don't forget; BTF SUNDAY 20TH, NOON START

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I'm not going to bite Dave, Your entitled to your opinions. it didn't fall on deaf ears regarding the ratings Dave. It was never in my control. If you read the prescriptions on US sailing web site about running a race using portsmouth ratings maybe you'd realize it isn't the clubs we sail at. It is US Sailings (national) rules. It's the only set of rules that the clubs have to use as a guideline. You want to make some up? Have at it. I'll be happy to vote for you to be commodore next year.

Hasta,

FM

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FishingMickey, can you send me the times for the races with the average wind for each race? Or was it just the one? If so, what was the average?

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Man, I love sailing Packery Channel. No complicated boat ratings. No start times. No 5- minute countdown. No spreadsheets of race results. No rules. Just mother nature laying down the law w/ plenty of wind & waves. Winning = making it back without breaking your mast.

 

I know that's all a part of racing, but geeeez - seems like a big headache.

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My fault, and I apologize to all. No more ratings wars, no more pissin and moanin, just sailin with friends. Oh and beer, yea, beer with friends.

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I have never sailed a single race in my life that wasn't one design, and that string started in 1970 with a Win'ard Sabot, racing against the editor of SA. Even my one Contender regatta, some 25 years ago, was OD. I hope my first timed race will be BTF ( we shall see with the change to Sunday).

 

This ratings stuff is a buzz kill (my hornet is on life support!).

 

As a rank outsider to this group (this is the year of the outsider, after all), my comments regarding recent posts:

 

1) Race committees that will keep up with a Portsmouth fleet are to be revered, not reviled. Keeping track of close finishers in OD is a big enough pain without keeping track of times by boat on top of that. My hat is off to those regatta organizers who will do that for us.

2) This is Texas; it ain't Europe. If Euro race committees salivate at the thought of a Portsmouth regatta or one of those pursuit deals, more power to them. I am fairly certain such is not the normal case in this neck of the woods.

3) If I was PRO and a Portsmouth group asked me to set a separate course or a different course for them in a multi-fleet regatta, I would be hard pressed to agree to do so (see no. 1 above).

 

This is not to say that forging good relations with clubs that host regattas that include the TCC isn't important. It is. And perhaps over time, with a lot of schmoozing, one or two regatta organizers will heed special requests.

 

Ortega has it right -- have fun on the water with your friends and drink a beer.

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I love and miss one design because I know exactly how well or how poorly we did. I am over competitive and miss it a ton. But, I also love the centerboards and you jokers and find these weekends much less stressful than OD racing. I will never, ever miss the pain of launching a J22.

 

I agree- any committee that will even set marks for us is the be thanked. I live in a club-less town, so as frusterated as AYC RC is to me, I still so grateful then welcome us. They have no benefit at all for having us. Griping killed the Waco Sailing Club completely.

 

I think if someone's rating is way off, it's fun and fair to discuss. As I said, I think I'm lucky in that I sail a boat that's about right. When we sail poorly we place poorly. When we sail well, we do well. Maybe better than we should sometimes, but I don't know. I do think it's about right. But I know those kids in the 420 didn't beat us in June (Theo and I were really dialed in that race, played the shifts right, had good take downs, etc. so ya, we didn't get beat by junior sailors). But I am glad kids got a first place much more so than us. Hopefully they will . But is the handicap accurate? Nope.

 

I have no idea about the canoes. They seem incredibly hard to sail and how can you even figure a handicap when you're in the water as much as those crazy guys. I know y'all are faster than us upright, then we sail past y'all when you're capsized, you pass us again, capsize, repeat. Looks fun/crazy hard. The wetas are faster than us. More fastererer when it's blowing. I enjoy chasing Darin around, he's a good sailor. I wish I got to chase Dave K around more. I think things with Lindy are about even. Jenny I have no idea. The contender also no idea. That boat seems to really vary performance with the wind.

 

I'll be racing Bridge Too Far. If y'all could put me and Theo in one pot (maybe score our boat) that would be great. For 2 day regattas we're hoping y'all will let one of us sail each day (switch skippers) and still be counted? But I guess that's up to the group. We aren't switching off for any benefit, just trying to still do some sailing with the little one.

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I am sorry to be absent from the conversation for so long; took my son to Washington DC and stood around on the Congressional floor and watched the Canadian Prime Minister land across the street from our hotel, cool stuff.

 

Regarding ratings, Big D asked to change the rating of the AC by 1 minute. I, as commodore, agreed. 1 minute folks.

 

If any of you suggest that you are not in the racing to win you are kidding yourself. We are all in it to win and that's what makes it so much fun. Try passing Jenny's bow on port with inches to clear and see how much love you get. Try it with me and see the same. If it didn't mean anything, we wouldn't do it.

 

Which brings me to my beleaguered point: ratings matter. If you think you're getting pimped before the start horn blows you'll be pissed the whole race. It's not fun if you don't think you have a chance to win.

 

I didn't ask to be commodore, I was asked. With that said I think better racing brings better sailors and better sailing. The better we get the rating thing down so everyone is happy, the better the racing is for everyone. With more people happy, more people will show up at the next race and our little gang will build. That's my vision. I hope it doesn't differ that much from the rest of you.

 

We are promoting our circuit all over the state. The clubs that let us sail with them are to be thanked over and over again. Without them, we don't exist. I can tell you from personal experience as the race commodore for one of our stops, it's no easy task. As a matter of fact, I'm really not sure why I do it. But if I didn't do it, who would? So I have an understanding of what it takes to pull off a regatta that everyone likes to the point they come back next year.

 

Not everyone agrees with me on this last point, but I would rather sail a so-so regatta than not sail at all. That's why I scheduled so many races even though some thought it too many. The races we have on the schedule coincide with other clubs scheduled events. We can hardly ask clubs to have races for us all by our selves. So I'm not getting where the Turnback race or others are not fun for some. So there are keel boats that sail too, so what? We don't sail with them, we just sail around them.

 

Hopefully we will find time Sunday to talk amongst ourselves and resolve what I view as pretty simple issues.

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Bought damn time you came back. Glad to hear you unnerstand where we are coming from, see ya soon!

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jeeze finally just caught up here on the forum. i have been swamped with this school thing. being a born again college student aint all its cracked up to be.

 

anyways, just reading all of this makes me excited to think about making it out to bridge too far.

 

if i can make it i will let you all know.

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Will someone in the know please post directions to the Stillhouse race site. FYI: the race has been rescheduled to Sunday. Our TCC schedule shows Saturday.

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Launch point is Stillhouse Park. Google shows it as

 

4050 Simmons Rd, Belton, TX 76513

 

Don't forget your entrance fee. I think it's $4 but I'd bring $10 just in case. Just go in the main park gate and keep going down the hill until you see the sailboats.

 

Race starts at noon?

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I'm looking for FOUR volunteers to make up our five member board, along with the commodore. These board members will make decisions on issues that arise during the year. Everyone get's an equal vote. The commodore will break all ties. This is incentive to be the commodore in years to come. I need people I can trust to be invested in the future of TCC. Who's in?

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