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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
Doug Lord

14' Stunt S9 Foiling Cat

450 posts in this topic

Another lesson: no brakes. No matter your traveler and sheet setting, if it is really windy, you will foil when you head down.

 

Pre-start area, windy, choppy, lot of boats milling around, intended to head down just a little to keep clear, pulled down slightly, a little wind shift, and off she went. Unexpected acceleration, unplanned gybe, swept off the boat, capsized. Kept the sheet so no further drama.

This never happened with my other cats.

 

Still a lot to learn - need to work on smooth transitions. Fewer surprises these days. Even more fun now than when we started last year.

Foiling all the way into the marina is a thrill. (formerly a Tomko-only maneuver - and that Moth from Austin.)

 

Charlie

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A question for Michele:

looking at the web site of the Congrega Velisti Cesenatico, the organizing authority of the well known Easter multihull regatta ("Vele di Pasqua"), I found that no 9 S9 are so far pre-registered.

How many of them are the new sloop version (let's call it the SL9)?

I am curious to learn if the SL9 is faster than the unirigged S9 on a standard upwind/downwind racecourse

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Yes . More faster , also in light wind , start foiling in 5 knods , but seems that we can use jib up to 20 knots wind .

Much faster and much stable .

Even in floating mode seems wery fast and good angle to wind .

Sinple rigging ,

Someone call it S9 turbo

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Thanks Michele, but you forgot to say how many S9 Turbo will be sailing at Cesenatico against standard S9s.

And please keep us informed on the final results of the biggest S9 regatta ever

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7 S9 turbo , 2 standard.

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Important that everybody understand how rewarding it is to learn foiling. The thrill from foiling is well worth the challenges! Still seems like magic to see the whole boat out of the water. You will figure it out - easier than learning windsurfing.

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Re: post April 09: it was quite stupid of me to foil around between a bulkhead and a fleet of keelboats loitering for a start. 1) I did not anticipate the acceleration onto foils as I bore off. and 2) I had no escape route planned. The lesson I think is that foilers have to plan the next move far ahead of what our prior experience has taught us - need to anticipate the acceleration and change to flight mode. In my case I was simply a little embarrassed. A few days later I saw BAR ram a dock in similar tight quarters. I wish no harm to BAR, but I discovered I was not the only one learning these lessons.

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Finally we had the opportunity to compete with other classes like Tornado, hobie 16, A cat,

was the first race of the Italian S9 class championship

not good wind, really light , wery good condition for A cat , wich we use as a yardstick because A cat are the best races cat in this wind condition .

but results are wery good , we are happy .

 

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New videos on YouTube. Some with the turbo kit - a nice addition.

 

Some are uncut. You can see us stalling and dropping down, doing unanticipated hops, whatever mistakes - all great fun.

 

We have a nice place to sail, hope you enjoy the videos.

 

Many thanks to Bubba for the drone videos: good job!

 

Again, many thanks to Judson.

 

John, please slow down so we can get everyone in the same frame :mellow: .

 

More Turbo videos tomorrow.

 

Charlie

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIFQfrzK_eQ

 

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=e0L-EdG2Ajg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UNZNJ7YBnA

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I watched the 1st video & was especially interested in the portion after about 5:15, when the boat is on starboard tack & you can see the wake from the forward foil sweeping aft & sometimes impinging on the aft foil. At times some spray from the rudder/aft foil is visible above the crossbeam, but it doesn't seem to correlate with when the forward wake hits the rudder.

 

Are you aware of any effects from this kind of thing?

 

I was going to let you know that I've made some crude attempts to get videos of the same phenomenon on my Moth, but I see from the 2nd link that you already know that.

 

It's interesting to read about your experiences with the S9 & to watch the videos. It looks like you're having lots of fun!

post-21863-0-51844200-1493039795_thumb.png

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Funny-again I click on that url and go to my youtube video list!

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Doug Halsey: thank you - yes we are having a ball - displacement boats just don't "look right" to us any more.

The rudders are canted outward from top to bottom, and they are not mounted on the centerline as are the boards.

Michele stated that this design helps to keep board flow from interfering with the rudders. Amazing to me that we get

speeds in the 20s in those light winds - but I guess you get that a lot on the Moth.

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Doug: hmmm - don't know why that happens.

 

Another video coming this morning after processing - long downwind, testing sitting vs trapping, some good gybes.

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Didn't happen on 2 out of 3 of the first videos!?

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S9 Turbo comments: haven't heard about the Turbo kit from Judson yet, I hope to get mine out Wednesday.

Here is a summary of what John reports so far:

* trapping downwind is faster and lower than sitting

* main traveler can be centered more with the jib - should help with upwind angles

* rudders are not as loaded up as with the unirig

 

More later.

 

Charlie

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Latest video here: https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=p_0XCOOOL6o

 

Helmet cam: S9 Turbo, long 15 minute run, 6 gybes, uncut, Tomko

 

6 gybes with minimum speeds coming out of the gybe:

1:10 - 11 mph, 4:25 - 13 mph, 5:15 - 12 mph

10:50 - 8 mph, 12:20 - 8 mph, 12:58 - 13 mph - (best one)

(kayak dodge at 8:45)

When I click on that link, I get my videos again & it gives the following as the url: https://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U

They must have folders with the same names several places, making it tricky to know the right one to paste into your posts.

I don't entirely understand it either.

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Latest video here: https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=p_0XCOOOL6o

 

Helmet cam: S9 Turbo, long 15 minute run, 6 gybes, uncut, Tomko

 

6 gybes with minimum speeds coming out of the gybe:

1:10 - 11 mph, 4:25 - 13 mph, 5:15 - 12 mph

10:50 - 8 mph, 12:20 - 8 mph, 12:58 - 13 mph - (best one)

(kayak dodge at 8:45)

Those are all too slow to stay on the foils, aren't they?

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Odd - I get to the video with that link - and this one, too:

 

Latest video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_0XCOOOL6o&t=8s
Helmet cam: S9 Turbo, long 15 minute run, 6 gybes, uncut, Tomko

6 gybes with minimum speeds coming out of the gybe:
1:10 - 11 mph, 4:25 - 13 mph, 5:15 - 12 mph
10:50 - 8 mph, 12:20 - 8 mph, 12:58 - 13 mph - (best one)
(kayak dodge at 8:45)

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Doug Halsey: the S9 starts foiling at about 10 mph boat speed - but it has to be flat: fore-aft-port-starboard.

That's when all 4 foils develop max lift. It will stay foiling below that if allowed to just coast down to a stall,

but realistically 10 mph is a pretty good number.

The 10 mph seems to apply to skippers from 149 pounds to about 214. We didn't expect that.

Don't know why. The videos should back this up, as I recall.

 

The gybes at 8 mph were definitely not foiling - the 13 mph ones were flying I think - especially the last one.

Not always easy to tell if the entire boat is held up by the foils - pretty dynamic situation.

In any case, if done correctly, you are clearly foiling again within a second or two, at most.

 

Seems like we get better VMG upwind when we are in "skimming" mode rather than full foiling.

Not sure yet - everything changes so much with windspeed changes.

Still a lot of testing to do. Hard work, but I guess somebody has to do it :) .

 

Charlie

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Charlie, how much wind doe it take to get 10mph boat speed upwind and offwind?

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Hi Doug, I don't remember how I answered a similar question before, so forgive me if this one is different, but I think about 8 mph will get us up.

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Tuning guide is available if anybody wants it. PM me.

Anybody else have feedback on the Turbo kit?

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Charlie - I'm interested in the tuning guide :-) -- I'm maintaining a similar doc with notes about Whisper rigging and tuning. My email addr is martin.langhoff@gmail.com

 

Whisper notes -- still early days -- at https://martin-langhoff.github.io/whisper-foiling-catamaran/

 

One other point I'm curious about. Is there an option for the S9 to have slide-down rudders, as Whispers and Phantoms do? In some locations you have to sail a bit in shallow waters to get to your ramp/beach...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrHXOul-YnQ

 

I think the link above will take you to the S9Turbo test from Friday. Please let me know if the link works - or not.

 

Extra power upwind was impressive. Still difficult to make good vmg while foiling upwind.

Tried sitting downwind and going as low as I could and still foil - probably much too low for the jib to make much difference.

Did have to change rudder rake.

 

John prefers trapping downwind - lower and faster.

 

Still some rigging and fine tuning to do - will have pics soon.

 

Thank you,

Charlie

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Charlie

I have watched your latest video and would make a few observations.

 

It looks to me like you aren't doing anything with mast rotation. Downwind, i understand it being fully off but it seems to me that upwind, it is also fully off and I suspect you will get higher speeds with less rotation.

 

I guess the sitting in vs trapezing and going for it are personal choices. I would imagine that sitting in is significantly slower but less likely to end in a mess, although if you did stuff the nose in, there would be so much more to hurt yourself on as you pitch forward. It looks like the jib isn't doing anything worthwhile. If i understand you correctly, going for it leads to not only faster speeds but because the apparent goes forward, you end up sailing lower as well. This is what I would expect.

 

I am slightly puzzled about the balance of the boat, particularly upwind. It would seem strange fo the boat to feel good either with or without jib, so are you changing anything, such as mast rake, to balance the boat for the different rigs.

 

The big question is whether the improvements are due to the extra area or the aero advantages of a jib. This might become clearer as you compare performance in different wind conditions.

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ACS: Thank you for your comments. It's nice to know somebody watches with a critical eye. That's what I hope for.




It looks to me like you aren't doing anything with mast rotation. Downwind, i understand it being fully off but it seems to me that upwind, it is also fully off and I suspect you will get higher speeds with less rotation. Yes, the crew did not pull the rotation back for the upwind leg. Hard to find good crew.



I guess the sitting in vs trapezing and going for it are personal choices. I would imagine that sitting in is significantly slower but less likely to end in a mess, although if you did stuff the nose in, there would be so much more to hurt yourself on as you pitch forward. It looks like the jib isn't doing anything worthwhile. If i understand you correctly, going for it leads to not only faster speeds but because the apparent goes forward, you end up sailing lower as well. This is what I would expect. Using the trap downwind is not difficult - it's the re-boarding that is tricky. Downwind, at speed, the helm is very sensitive. My number one goal when sailing alone is to stay on the boat. In the last video I was out there alone - no chase boat. If the helm wiggles while I am coming in off the trap I'll be off in a flash. Don't ask me how I know this.



Yes, sailing too low negates the jib, as you noticed. Might as well not have it when sailing that low.



Sitting while foiling downwind was a bit unnerving at first. Every time those short little bows started down I thought I was gone. After the first couple of runs I learned to trust the boat - as the bows dip, the wand commands more "up" on the main foils, and all ends well. I don't think would happen without the wands. I'll get more practice downwind on the wire - but only with backup of some sort, for now anyway.



I am slightly puzzled about the balance of the boat, particularly upwind. It would seem strange fo the boat to feel good either with or without jib, so are you changing anything, such as mast rake, to balance the boat for the different rigs. Boat feels pretty conventional upwind with the unirig, especially in high mode. This was my first time out with the jib. Really different. Need more time on the water to figure it out. Need to tension jib halyard more - sail would flop if I went high at speed. Seems to me the jib pulled the boat down, especially in the gusts. Slot too tight? Don't know yet. Only change I made so far was on the rudder rake, and that may have been the wrong thing to do. It would be good if we get by with no rig changes.



The big question is whether the improvements are due to the extra area or the aero advantages of a jib. This might become clearer as you compare performance in different wind conditions. Agree completely.



ACS, again, thank you for your observations, please continue.



Charlie

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4 S9 arrive to Noumea ( New Caledonia)

First fleet on Pacific sea . 

FB_IMG_1494154207286.jpg

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Michele, did Martin Fischer get one? He lives there last I knew....

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No , but Martin is a friend of Noumea guys , same club .

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S9 Turbo test - round two (5 hours!).

Wind 4mph-14mph, gusty, shifty - South to ESE, nasty boat chop.

Light shifty air, light boat, bad chop - not ideal.

Moved the jib down, directly shackled to the pole.  Improved jib sheeting system - 4:1, small line, low drag.

Opened up jib traveler - normal position now about two inches from max travel.  No more choking.

New systems eliminated jib luff slatting - adequate tension now easy to achieve.

Our local Yacht Club RC graciously allowed me to race with the Board Boats as long as I didn't interfere with the racers - thank you Fred!

First two races were low wind, shifty, bad boat chop.  I kept the foils in foiling mode - max drag.  Mistake.  Like sailing with the brakes on.  Embarrassing.  

Third race I disconnected the flaps, released tension on the wands and sailed it like a floater.  Quite a difference - much better result.

Looks like determining when to go to floating vs foiling mode will be important in light air races.  We'll see.

My 2 cents:  in light air - floating mode only. In medium and heavy air: floating mode upwind, foiling down.  Blowing like stink: skimming upwind, foiling down.

Upwind foiling just does not work for me - a heavier skipper may have a different result.  I give up too much angle to get it foiling.

Ok, play time after the races - wind now abut 14 mph,  a lot steadier.  Jib offers a lot more power.  When it grabs there is quite an acceleration.   

Have to run less rotation on the main to keep spreaders out of the jib.  Upwind foiling easier - but without a rabbit boat hard to tell if that is good.

Downwind:  ok, jib now great.  Jib sheet and traveler limits can be adjusted,  At my max release on both, jib draws great, gives proper indications and works well with the main.  No jib adjustments required downwind.  Easier work load - sail to the jib telltales.  Downwind foiling only requires gentle steering, not fighting it like in first video.  In the lulls the jib seems to pull through a little longer than with main alone.  More power through the gybes, tacking much easier.

Helm: heavier at speed than with main alone.  Slight and unpredictable tendency for fully neutral helm upwind.  Don't let go the stick!

Overall the jib adds complexity and power.  Beginners should stick to main only - pretty sweet ride in good wind.

Would be interested if there is anything here to compare with your experience.  Speak up, please.

No video today.  Will try again on Tuesday - my 64th birthday!

Fair winds,

Charlie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 Its now ufficial on web ,

SCHRS ISAF SMALL CATAMARAN HANDICAP RATING SYSTEM 

S9 = 1.107 

Really good rating

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The cat is currently available for testing in my club. I couldn't try it this week, but lots of friends with different experience did, and I had the chance to line-up with a very good cat guy that was driving it 2 weeks ago

First EVERYBODY who has tried it, said that is incredibly easy to fly, a lot easier than a moth or a waszp. a good skiff guy (who also does foil-kiting) was able to foil-gybe on day one.

Secondly, angles. Downwind speed is similar to my moth, but the S9 goes a bit higher, so it's slightly worse VMG. Upwind in medium wind I had a much better VMG everytime. It seems like on the S9 the best upwind VMG is very close between skimming and foiling, because the boat to fly needs to bear away quite a lot (I'd say ballpark 55°-60° AOA); I suspect though that upwind foiling will be very much dependent on skill and experience, as it is with the A; so maybe very good people will find a way to keep it on the foils fast while going pretty close hauled.

Overall it seems like a very good boat! Impressed! I don't really have a lot of free time (and I need to bloody train for the worlds), but maybe next sunday I'll give it a shot.

Michele

 

 

 

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Longneck Regatta report (first regatta in this hemisphere with a fleet of S9s):

Canyon Lake Texas - May 20 and 21, 2017

Five classes: F18, spin boats, non-spin boats, Hobie 17, S9.  Four boats in the S9 fleet - one Classic and three Turbos.

Between races the S9 skippers met up on the water to discuss setup.   Even did some boat swapping - made it hard for the Race Committee to score - thank you Race Committee!

Skippers: me, Judson Holt (S9 owner and sponsor of the Lupe Tortilla Phantom team), Shannon Galway (owner of a Phantom), and Matt (Shannon’s Phantom crew).

Shannon and Matt had their first sail on the S9 on Friday - wind in the low 20 mph range.  They were both foiling immediately, with one flying gybe reported by Shannon.  Happy as school kids that evening.  Previous Phantom training showed!

Winds for the regatta were light and variable, RC says Beaufort 2-3, some useful gusts, especially on Sunday.  First three races on Saturday:  two S9Ts raced with full foils, one S9T and the S9C raced with main and rudder foils removed.  In this light wind the boats without foils were noticeably quicker.  The SCHRS handicap has the S9 between a Hobie 17 and a Hobie 18.  Experience in light air without foils showed that number to be right on.  Witnessed brief downwind foiling by one S9 all day.

Races 4 and 5 on Sunday all four boats had full foils in anticipation of stronger wind.  Wind was better than Saturday, but still not enough.  I spent about three minutes foiling - and that was in the gusts.  These conditions were just too light for the foils - we would have been far faster without them.

Conclusions:  

  1. Handicap seems about right in light air with no foils
  2. Jib: tacks are much cleaner, stalls are avoided in the light shifty air, more speed
  3. In wind < about 12 knots, the S9 is faster with the foils removed (4 screws - 2 minutes) 

Fair winds,

Charlie

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Moral of the story, never tangle with someone bigger than you.

Go and talk to a glider repair shop used to high tech composite repairs and you would never know its had a tiff. We used to take bits of crashed gliders and make full pieces that was near enough the same weight as prior to the accident. It can be done and done well, just as strong.

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23 hours ago, 17mika said:

The cat is currently available for testing in my club. I couldn't try it this week, but lots of friends with different experience did, and I had the chance to line-up with a very good cat guy that was driving it 2 weeks ago

First EVERYBODY who has tried it, said that is incredibly easy to fly, a lot easier than a moth or a waszp. a good skiff guy (who also does foil-kiting) was able to foil-gybe on day one.

Secondly, angles. Downwind speed is similar to my moth, but the S9 goes a bit higher, so it's slightly worse VMG. Upwind in medium wind I had a much better VMG everytime. It seems like on the S9 the best upwind VMG is very close between skimming and foiling, because the boat to fly needs to bear away quite a lot (I'd say ballpark 55°-60° AOA); I suspect though that upwind foiling will be very much dependent on skill and experience, as it is with the A; so maybe very good people will find a way to keep it on the foils fast while going pretty close hauled.

Overall it seems like a very good boat! Impressed! I don't really have a lot of free time (and I need to bloody train for the worlds), but maybe next sunday I'll give it a shot.

Michele

 

 

 

Mika , Im immagin that you know Luca or Elia , can you make a test with both  boats ? S9 and Moth !

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15 hours ago, Charlie P Mayer said:

Longneck Regatta report (first regatta in this hemisphere with a fleet of S9s):

Canyon Lake Texas - May 20 and 21, 2017

Five classes: F18, spin boats, non-spin boats, Hobie 17, S9.  Four boats in the S9 fleet - one Classic and three Turbos.

Between races the S9 skippers met up on the water to discuss setup.   Even did some boat swapping - made it hard for the Race Committee to score - thank you Race Committee!

Skippers: me, Judson Holt (S9 owner and sponsor of the Lupe Tortilla Phantom team), Shannon Galway (owner of a Phantom), and Matt (Shannon’s Phantom crew).

Shannon and Matt had their first sail on the S9 on Friday - wind in the low 20 mph range.  They were both foiling immediately, with one flying gybe reported by Shannon.  Happy as school kids that evening.  Previous Phantom training showed!

Winds for the regatta were light and variable, RC says Beaufort 2-3, some useful gusts, especially on Sunday.  First three races on Saturday:  two S9Ts raced with full foils, one S9T and the S9C raced with main and rudder foils removed.  In this light wind the boats without foils were noticeably quicker.  The SCHRS handicap has the S9 between a Hobie 17 and a Hobie 18.  Experience in light air without foils showed that number to be right on.  Witnessed brief downwind foiling by one S9 all day.

Races 4 and 5 on Sunday all four boats had full foils in anticipation of stronger wind.  Wind was better than Saturday, but still not enough.  I spent about three minutes foiling - and that was in the gusts.  These conditions were just too light for the foils - we would have been far faster without them.

Conclusions:  

  1. Handicap seems about right in light air with no foils
  2. Jib: tacks are much cleaner, stalls are avoided in the light shifty air, more speed
  3. In wind < about 12 knots, the S9 is faster with the foils removed (4 screws - 2 minutes) 

Fair winds,

Charlie

Charlie ,  that is a wery good test , 4 S9 , different setup , with or without foils , many data to work on .

Thanks 

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33 minutes ago, ita 16 said:

Mika , Im immagin that you know Luca or Elia , can you make a test with both  boats ? S9 and Moth !

Ciao Michele. Se non ricordo male 3 settimane fa ho conosciuto Elia a Dongo, e poi ho fatto un paio di bordi appaiato a lui fuori, io in moth e lui con l'S9.

Faccio riferimento a quel momento quando ho scritto di performance relative nel post; pensa che avevo anche dei video fatti con la gopro della mia barca, che poi ho cancellato. In sostanza in 12 nodi di lasco velocità simile ma io poggiavo un po' di più, di bolina invece per volare e stare su lui doveva poggiare molto più di me... VMG differentissima.

Se ti interessa qualche info o confronto, domenica e tutto il we del 2 giugno sono su ad allenarmi in moth, e nel caso mi metto d'accordo con loro. Se per Luca intendi Botta, ho scambiato 2 impressioni con lui domenica pomeriggio quando è rientrato dall'uscita con l'S9, era contentissimo del lasco (ha strambato in volo), mentre non riusciva bene a farla partire stringendo di bolina.

PS io sono Michele Trimarchi, piacere di conoscerti.

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Charlie P Mayer said:

 

Conclusions:  

  1. Handicap seems about right in light air with no foils
  2. Jib: tacks are much cleaner, stalls are avoided in the light shifty air, more speed
  3. In wind < about 12 knots, the S9 is faster with the foils removed (4 screws - 2 minutes) 

Fair winds,

Charlie

As usual, thanks Charlie for a great report. I have 2 questions about your conclusions.

Are you allowed to change the foils during an event? Is it defined in the class rule? The Moths do change their foils during events but on the A's you cannot.

You say that in < about 12 knots removing then foils leads to a quicker boat and I assume that is overall around the race course. If you were only sailing upwind, or only sailing downwind, how does that change the picture? I suspect that you would use foils downwind in lighter winds than you would upwind.

Do you think that the limiting factor in the cross over between using foils or not is the sailor or the set up? Does it change with the weight of the sailor?

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2 hours ago, 17mika said:

Ciao Michele. Se non ricordo male 3 settimane fa ho conosciuto Elia a Dongo, e poi ho fatto un paio di bordi appaiato a lui fuori, io in moth e lui con l'S9.

Faccio riferimento a quel momento quando ho scritto di performance relative nel post; pensa che avevo anche dei video fatti con la gopro della mia barca, che poi ho cancellato. In sostanza in 12 nodi di lasco velocità simile ma io poggiavo un po' di più, di bolina invece per volare e stare su lui doveva poggiare molto più di me... VMG differentissima.

Se ti interessa qualche info o confronto, domenica e tutto il we del 2 giugno sono su ad allenarmi in moth, e nel caso mi metto d'accordo con loro. Se per Luca intendi Botta, ho scambiato 2 impressioni con lui domenica pomeriggio quando è rientrato dall'uscita con l'S9, era contentissimo del lasco (ha strambato in volo), mentre non riusciva bene a farla partire stringendo di bolina.

PS io sono Michele Trimarchi, piacere di conoscerti.

====================================

Gtran:

Hi Michele. If I do not remember bad 3 weeks ago I met Elia at Dongo, and then I made a couple of edges pitted out to him, I in moth and he with the S9. I refer to that moment when I wrote about relative performance in the post; I think I also had videos made with the gopro of my boat, which I then deleted. Basically in 12 knots of similar speed but I leaned a bit more, flying instead to fly and stay on him had to rely far more than me ... VMG very different. If you're interested in some info or comparison, Sunday and all of us on June 2 are going to train in moth, and if I get along with them. If for Luca you mean Botta, I exchanged 2 impressions with him Sunday afternoon when he came back from leaving the S9, he was delighted with the fly (fluttering in flight) while he could not get it started shaking. PS I am Michele Trimarchi, a pleasure to meet you.

 

 

 

 

 

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