GauchoGreg

Ultime / G-Class Development

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4 hours ago, QBF said:

To me, in the photo I posted, it looked like a hard walled structure. It is not, and I stand corrected.

There is zero added windage, hard-walled or not.  The walls/windows are set under the bimini, behind the cowling/front of cockpit.  If anything, it probably provides a smoother airflow as the wind flows back from the already existing cockpit.  Ugly, for sure, but nice protection from the elements for the crew when wanted.

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Interested to know how and where do they set up the mast rotation sensors? 

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As you see in the video posted by Monsieur Le Baguette above, it's not as elegant as the set up on MACIF. I remember when MACIF was in build and the pictures coming out were really weird with the rear facing cabin, but now they have it all integrated with the front fairing, roof and soft walls tapering in to the rear cabin in looks awesome and quite natural and logical.

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Fair enough but Macif and BP certainly have more elegant solutions. Understood fully crewed vs single handed but Spindrift was such a good looking boat...

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16 hours ago, QBF said:

I understand the need for shelter for the crew, however, after last years dismasting, Spindrift-Racing spent a lot of money building a new/rebuilding the old mast. They have a wing-mast that cants for better performance and increased efficiency.

Then they go and add a high-walled, slab sided, structure that is certainly not aerodynamic to the back of the cockpit.

Fuck me I think you're onto something here, better send them an email, or even better Facebook message to let them know how stupid they are, I'm pretty sure no one working for this project ever thought about what you've just nailed.

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Anyone got any thoughts on how Macif has stayed in tact during the Route De Rhum when there have been 3 failed Ultime's? Obviously Armel and Seb with failed bows. Seb was in front of Macif however was he pushing too hard? Gabart and Macif when in as favorites however he has managed to keep his boat together when others haven't?

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Well , id suggest sea miles, and all the bugs worked out.

Its tough to compare two brand new builds with one that's done far more sea miles......

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On 10/19/2018 at 8:35 AM, PIL66 said:

 

I’d give up a weeks pay for an hour at the helm. 

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6 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Anyone got any thoughts on how Macif has stayed in tact during the Route De Rhum when there have been 3 failed Ultime's? Obviously Armel and Seb with failed bows. Seb was in front of Macif however was he pushing too hard? Gabart and Macif when in as favorites however he has managed to keep his boat together when others haven't?

Probably a combination of things:

• Macif was the first ultime launched and has already done a lap of the planet, Francois talkes about it being like a new boat but let’s face it it isn’t really new.

• Francois has already won the vendee globe, he probably knows how to nurse a boat when he needs to.

• It’s the least powerful of the ultimes, might be a factor in reduced stress on the structure

The two leading boats have covered the most miles in the fleet (Macif probably covered the same as Sodebo by now) and whilst Joyon’s experience and oldest boat is probably what’s kept him in the race and also challenging for the lead, you can never get against Gabarts success rate, as a percentage it’s incredible

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On 12/3/2017 at 1:42 PM, mad said:

So link to the original and stop fucking around with the red font you idiot!! <_<

Bad looser ;-)

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The Brest Oceans Around the world the ultim in question?

The Route du Rhum is not over but it is already mentioned a postponement of @BrestOceans!

Lorient - Bermuda - Lorient?

http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/voile/route-du-rhum/actualites/le-tour-du-monde-des-ultimes-remis-en-question-933380

MACHINE TRANSLATION

After the damage of the Route du Rhum, the trimarans flying wonder. Their race around the planet, in a year, could be shifted.

At Pointe-à-Pitre.

Moored at the pontoon of the down-du-Fort marina, Macif licks his wounds. A foil disappeared, a saffron ' shote net ", J3 cylinder (small sail to front) snatch: the François Gabart trimaran suffered between Saint-Malo and Pointe-à-Pitre. The Route du rhum barely finished 2018, another race has already begun to refurbish the boat. "Ithere at least for five months," said Thomas Norman, responsible of the technical team Macif. There is a schedule for next year, but avoid rushing to repair. We must first learn the lessons of this race.»

Even if the punch was probably a bitter taste for Gabart, wearing on the pole by Idec Sport and Francis Joyon in a finish of legend, there is consolation saying that his boat arrived around. This isn't the case of his playmates, Sébastien Josse and Armel Le Cléac ' h, skippers of two other ultimate wheels. The first has seen forward of the starboard float of Edmond de Rothschild ripped from the first night, it was race in mind in a Bay of Biscay muscular. The second capsized off the coast of the Azores, probably because of the breakdown of her port float.

The trimaran of Josse returned to Lorient on Wednesday. One of Le Cléac ' h is under tow to the Iberian Peninsula. " It is in bad condition after spending a week in a sea cross with parts that hit one against the other ," says Vincent Lauriot-Prévost, the architect of Bank Populaire IX. Launched a year ago, the trimaran from 32 meters (for 23 wide) already got on the roof twice this year. Two times too many.

The Maxi Edmond de Rothschild is back to @LorientAgglo. "A big thank you to all the team have worked for we can quickly bring it back to its base. Place the site' @SebJosse end #RDR2018pic.twitter.com/cuZKdKRlL7
-GitanaTeam (@GitanaTeam) November 14, 2018

This series of serious accidents in the ultimate - the Sodebo of Thomas Coville, oldest, also known a damage (crack at the level of a link arms) before resuming the race - cringe among some observers. "Ithere's no questioning going on around these new boats that looks a lot like the old, sweeping Lauriot-Prévost, boss of the firm VPLP. There are few differences between one cedi Sport launched in 2006 and Macif (baptized in 2015 and modified to fly in 2018). It's their way of navigation which is different. And learning of it takes time. »

«It is still too early to tell if there is delay or not»

Emmanuel Bachellerie

Problem, the teams haven't much in front of them. The first edition of Brest Oceans, new race around the world solo, should soar on 29 December 2019. While Banque Populaire, major actor of sailing in France for soon 30 years and pillar of the ultimate class, lives of the difficult times, the idea of a postponement of the race runs on the pontoons. " The question is nothing abnormal, recognizes Emmanuel Bachellerie, CEO of the SAS Brest Ultim Sailing, organizer of the future around the world." But it is still too early to say if there is delay or not. "A decision will be announced on December 8. Brest Oceans table on ' 4 to 6 boats ' at the start of his race.

Capable of flying at more than 40 knots through their foils on a flat sea, these jewels of technology to more than 10 million euros, and " not to put all hands " according to Michel Desjoyeaux, suffered in contact with the swell of a Bay of Biscay Rep e case-boats. Rum 2018 finally served as crash-test giant shells still fresh. " Is not a surprise if major damage are the two new (Edmond de Rothshild and Banque Populaire). They have faced for the first time in this type of weather, analyzes Vincent Lauriot-Prévost. And these are boats that have the most miles, Idec Sport and Macif, who passed. »
Learning phase and fiber in the shells

Before becoming a formidable machine to turn around the world and win sunbeds, Joyon - also designed by VPLP - boat had capsized off the coast of New Zealand in 2008 with Franck Cammas on its stand and suffered a new damage to float a year like s later. Macif, him, has already turned around the globe. But François Gabart indicated having met " most problems within 48 hours on this Route du rhum on all around the world last year . The new appendices of his trimaran (rudders, foils) gave. Evidence that everyone is still in the learning phase of these certainly air machines but who are not immune to the planted violent.

«" Think we will turn around the world with two dry shells is not reasonable", warns Vincent Lauriot-Prévost. Used to measure in real-time the efforts incurred by appendices, fiber optics could become widespread in the floats in the image of the America's Cup boats, "pour be alerted when it is close to the limit . Cutting-edge technology to couple to the old recipes of the Offshore Racing: know slow down or lie down the road to avoid minefields. And not lose his wings.

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sounds like Banque Pop is a total loss 

From Ultim Boat FB page:

Bank popualire ix is not recoverable!

Ronan Lucas, director of the popular bank team: " despite all our efforts, with the storm, the boat is completely dislocated and in the state its reconstruction is impossible. We are all very sad about this outcome when we think of all the people who have contributed to this fabulous project. We are on foot to imagine the continuation of this beautiful story with popular bank."


The Kingston, which has been towing the people's bank ix for a period of 15 days, has made its entrance to vigo in early afternoon.

13 H 40 the tug, after a final alignment on the wide, makes its entrance to vigo at 3. Knots

At 15 hours the convoy was joined by a pilot ship from the port of vigo, and then by two small pusher tugs that county the trimaran returned.

The Ensemble was joined the north shore of the rade to go to the side of the site and Atollvic Shipyard site. A site equipped for the rollover of the trimaran and its preparation before its expedition to France. Operations seemed to be over around 17

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Photos in the RdR thread:

Looked like a total or near total loss to me. The foil in that float may still be okay. Real shame, would be good to know what happened so everyone can learn!

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This is obviously a big loss for BP, but one has to wonder what it means for the future of the Ultim class. BP represents a quarter of the class committee alongside Sodebo, Macif and Actual. Half of those sponsors already lost their expensive tri at sea in the span of a year.

Joyon is doing his own things, and said he won't enter the Brest Oceans (VG for Ultims) race with IDEC. I'm unsure about Gitana.

Coville's new boat is already well under construction, but if everything falls apart there is still time for Macif to cancel the new boat. It already happened not that long ago with the MOD70, and I don't think they had too much trouble finding buyers.

 

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I'll be surprised if Armel Le Cleach continues down the ultim road with BP.  I mentioned it after he flipped this boat last time, but he was freaked enough in 2005 after flipping the ORMA Foncia during the TJV, to decline taking over the sponsorship from Alain Gautier, which then went to Desjoyeaux.  Then he flipped this BP practicing and now this.  Additionally, how many times has Banque Populaire had to read their name upside down with ORMA and now this one twice concluding with total loss?  I'd want a vacation if I were in either party.  Just my opinion. 

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2 hours ago, GibGibGib said:

This is obviously a big loss for BP, but one has to wonder what it means for the future of the Ultim class. BP represents a quarter of the class committee alongside Sodebo, Macif and Actual. Half of those sponsors already lost their expensive tri at sea in the span of a year.

Joyon is doing his own things, and said he won't enter the Brest Oceans (VG for Ultims) race with IDEC. I'm unsure about Gitana.

Coville's new boat is already well under construction, but if everything falls apart there is still time for Macif to cancel the new boat. It already happened not that long ago with the MOD70, and I don't think they had too much trouble finding buyers.

 

* Spindrift's MOD70 #5 has been sitting on the hard, and for sale since 2013 after it capsized during the Route des Princes race.

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Histoire%20des%2060%20ORMA/OD%205.htm

 

* Race for Water MOD70 #1 has been up for sale since it was shipped back to France after capsizing in the Indian Ocean in 2015.

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Histoire%20des%2060%20ORMA/OD%201.htm

Both of these boats have yet to find a buyer!

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On 11/24/2018 at 7:18 PM, r.finn said:

I'll be surprised if Armel Le Cleach continues down the ultim road with BP.  I mentioned it after he flipped this boat last time, but he was freaked enough in 2005 after flipping the ORMA Foncia during the TJV, to decline taking over the sponsorship from Alain Gautier, which then went to Desjoyeaux.  Then he flipped this BP practicing and now this.  Additionally, how many times has Banque Populaire had to read their name upside down with ORMA and now this one twice concluding with total loss?  I'd want a vacation if I were in either party.  Just my opinion. 

To be fair, most of the ORMA fleet have spent time upside down or seriously damaged at some time by the end of the fleet. 

Remember the last transat race they all had? 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

To be fair, most of the ORMA fleet have spent time upside down or seriously damaged at some time by the end of the fleet. 

Remember the last transat race they all had? 

2002 RdR was insane.  Final ORMA race was the 2006 RdR which ended quite well for the fleet.

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I got a good look at ARGO in Newport during the boat show recently. Pretty awesome machine. Good to hear it will be in the Caribbean racing this year.

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A really good interview was published Quest France with Cyril Dardashti, Director of the Gitana Team. The article talks about the breakage in the Route du Rhum, and what they see in the future.

https://www.ouest-france.fr/route-du-rhum/route-du-rhum-etait-plus-de-40-noeuds-quand-le-flotteur-s-est-brise-6097475


MACHINE TRANSLATION
 

Route du Rhum. "We were at more than 40 knots when the float broke"

24 hours after the start of the Route du Rhum, while he was leading Sébastien Josse saw the right float of his Maxi trimaran Edmond de Rothschild explode into pieces. Three weeks later, the reasons for this failure are not yet fully defined. But for Cyril Dardashti, Director of the Gitana Team, two factors explain already the context: the high speed and the height of the waves.

Do you now know what happened at the time when the starboard float of the Edmond de Rothschild maxi broke?

No, not quite yet, because we just collect all the data of the boat to analyze, because it doesn't help to make plans on the comet as long as we can't control everything. What is known is that there are a lot of sea, and we would very quickly, both of which are not ideal to keep our integrated boats...

Is that what you mean by "go fast"?

We were above 40 knots, it déboitait not bad indeed... We weren't on a conservative mode, but rather on a mode 'attack', because we, in any case, asked was already quite the platform and we knew that in the heavy seas, it was pretty good. Then navigate through 4 m waves at 40 knots, we had never done, because we never had the conditions for that so far. And we realize that it is not passed. Explanations, expected yet, and let's get them.

Was Sébastien Josse over-revving?

No, he had to quickly go to the South and more we were going fast, better we wore behind. And besides, we had already dug a little gap, as it was already nearly 40 miles ahead of the longitudinal part, on Macif. It was already substantial and it allowed to build something.

What was surprising is that it is the float in the wind that blew...

Yes, but it's because this float here touched the water, anyway. With Max Edmond de Rothschild, we're in a mode of flying, even in the high sea where you can also do interesting things, obviously with a platform a little more flat. And, of course, in those circumstances we also seeks the float in the wind. Even if one has coefficients of relatively high material strength, because a fairly robust boat had been built, in any case known for that, well we realize that this is not enough.

Also going that we learn to manage these boats. When you do a crash test for a car and we send it on a wall at 60 mph, the car, no matter what it is folded. And it's the same for boats given the speeds which we sail these boats. Therefore, we learn to lift the foot at the time where it's needed.

In summary, the ultimate are not yet suitable to darken at 40 knots in in more than 4 m from hollow...

I don't want to anticipate, but anyway it's always a matter of compromise. There are two solutions: where you want it and you build the boat accordingly so that it holds, and in the light airs, you stay stuck to the track up to 15-16 knots or more. Or then you lighter, and you accept to have to slow down.

Say your architect on this?

Talk with them (the firm Verdier) to see if you did forget something in sizing. And from there, there are two possible conclusions: If you have forgotten something will be strengthened where there is need, and if you forgot the case reverse, it will adapt our behavior accordingly. I have not discussed with our neighbours to Banque Populaire to know where came their worries, this is a conversation that we have probably as there are to understand all what it is before the jump to conclusions.

There were not too many voices to criticize the reliability you boats...

Where I'm happy, it's that the general discourse still been quite measured. I think people understood that it happened in another era, which is that of flying boats. And that this does not happen overnight. One is fortunate to have partners like Benjamin and Ariane de Rothschild, who support us and follow us at bottom on these projects here, which make us do colossal leaps in technology, but which cannot be done without incident. You just have to see the start of the Route du Rhum and the incredible spectacle of these final... it was the star wars... I'm going above, I'll pass below, I pass in flying mode I regulates... The route between Grouin and Fréhel finished in 34 minutes, it was amazing!

We quickly saw the potential of your boat, during the first 36 hours...

Yes, but that, we, we didn't had many doubts. I think we were, without having the melon, the boat that was most feared... Already at Port-la-Forêt, in the training, they showed a great potential. The evidence, even if Seb lost command, a moment in the Sept-îles, it resumed it at Ouessant.

What do do you as a site on the boat in the coming months?

The boat went into our shed in Lorient. It is doing a check of the platform, not to check if we're not back on a base too solicited. We're preparing the bow of the float broken, so that they can take a new part of bow built at Multiplast. In so doing, it is likely that it reinforces it also... Same as the other float also.

How long will this take?

This is long... Let's say we should return the boat to the water end of April. But it's often the price of a good winter project...

At the financial level, it must be expensive no?

UH... Yes, this story we is quite expensive actually... We again a bow of 9 to 10 m long, it is almost equivalent to a boat... But compared to what we see our neighbours (Banque Populaire), it is little. And even among Macif, with a foil and rudder again, plus the rest of their repair work... It is almost better off from this point of view here... Not at the level of results, on the other hand...

It is possible that you put your experiences in common with other ultimate teams?

Yes, I think that we are going to share a bit. What is interesting is to know how they broke. After one is not obliged to share all our data, either. And above all, addressing, in terms of security, how you look at more...

What you mean?

Casually, when you see the State of Banque Populaire after 10 days, we say we have to think about security if it is around the planet... Imagine the ship, returned in the same way, in the deep South, with a man on board... it would go through a few phases of stress.

The ultimate World Tour, in 2019, happens - it too early? Should it be postponed?

Honestly, the question arises. That said I am not able to answer today. It is a reflection that there we lead all. It also we have all the elements, to make a choice. What is clear, is that the decision can be ripened. Do not say: that was expected in 2019, and don't move... We can't say: Banzai, let's go, the flower to the rifle, without further explanation on all break and damage each. Because it would be a folly to send guys around the planet without having answers to these questions. Because in the race, it is very different from in record mode. Record, we adapt to the conditions. In race mode, it also fits, but is also interested in other competitors to stay in the game. And it's often a little push to the crime. And is proof of the Route du Rhum. But this round the world solo in ultimate is the Holy Grail. This will be the most beautiful race in the world, I am sure. Today, you cannot do better. But we must do it in a smart and safe way.

How?

With the certainty that when any problem at sea, we can recover the snowmen. For me, it's essential. If, in case of capsize, we could say that it is easy to cut the rig and waiting for help inside... but this isn't the case. On a final you can't cut a rigging alone under water, the mast so just type the central hull, floats, it destroys everything... It means to find solutions so that, on a Tour of the world, there are, within three days at sea, a ship able to rescue sailors, if needed. It will take positions around Antarctica, two or three ships of trade, or Navy, or other, to intervene.

This is not a thin folder that...

No, indeed, it's a complicated topic but important. Anyway, it would happen to us a thing, you reprocherait us. There are risks, we know, anyway when we leave in the deep South, we know that. On the other hand, when we identify these risks and these dangers and we send guys to fail, it is not reasonable.

Destroy the boat, ok, this is a topic, and the insurance problem will also arise. Do we ensure our boats tomorrow? I'm not sure. But send a guy saying that there is a chance that he's there, I don't want to.

People's Bank out, the new Sodebo, not yet released on site, when you know the time it takes to make such a machine... reliable winter 2019 happens too fast not? In addition Idec has not confirmed he would come... There may not be many people on this Brest Oceans...

It's safe for an ordeal like that... I don't say he should wait until everyone is ready, if not, imagine that we also we break something this year... we'll not get more wait and repel. This is why I do not get me. He need to take this decision, together, a good family man, as they say. With, as I said, a safety requirement.

You are part of the class ultimate 32/23 Finally?

No... not at the moment. We're very close, we trade a lot, and I'm sure we'll find our common ground. They are constructive, open, and we also... it crashes just on small issues (slavery). We have a little bit in advance in some areas, especially when we put the finger on the reliability of the machines. We already had experience with the MOD70 flying Edmond de Rothschild, and we had already identified a number of issues.

And Sébastien Josse, what will do during these months of work?

He will follow the construction site, and help analyze the data. And then it will also train on our GC32, and continue his learning of the ship flying on our Flight Simulator that allows us to test the configurations of veil of appendages.

As a simulator for pilot aircraft?

Yes exactly. This is a simulator that had been developed by team New Zealand to allow Peter Burling, their skipper, to familiarize themselves with the flight on the America's Cup. We did the same, and it's really good.

For the program this year, and as the Lorient-Bermuda - Lorient is postponed, there is not a lot of upcoming races...

Actually, it's a bit foggy. We should know more within 15 days. This time, it is true that there is not much. One can imagine many things... If there is not around the world, we can consider the Transat Jacques Vabre, or leave in a campaign of record, crew or solitaire... Or Finally, circumnavigate the ultimate world, even without all the actors. We'll soon know.

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^  REALLY good interview.  Sounds like the issue really is whether or not they can fully engineer a boat that can handle 40knts hitting real waves, or if the skipper will have the self-control to let up on the pedal to keep the boats alive.  It sounds like the boats are plenty strong to handle the conditions at more typical historic speeds in past generation boats, but just not yet the kind of impact that comes with a 100' boat hitting a wave at 40knts.  Can they beef the boats up enough to handle it, or will they just have to back off.  When in control of conditions, such as taking off during a reasonable weather window and routing around storms in a RTR record attempt, things are probably OK with the boats as-is, but committed to a date/time/place departure and dealing with adverse conditions while competing with other boats, not so much.

Still, amazing machines, designers, and sailors.

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By the way, I love how Gitana has run their program, from being a leader in the development of these boats, to how open they have been, to working with the other teams while also saying hell with the silly restrictions of the Ultim collective.

By the way, a thought, we have been saying that size is less relevant as the boats go airborne, but I can't help but think what we have been seeing may have been less problematic if the boats weren't another 10-20' longer and with bigger, more robust floats like those on Spindrift.  Obviously, the rigs would have to be bigger, too, and that introduces other stresses, but I just wish that the Ultim's restrictions were a lot more flexible and the teams could seek out the best solutions for performance and safety without having to be tied to those rules.

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1 hour ago, GauchoGreg said:

^  REALLY good interview.  Sounds like the issue really is whether or not they can fully engineer a boat that can handle 40knts hitting real waves, or if the skipper will have the self-control to let up on the pedal to keep the boats alive.  It sounds like the boats are plenty strong to handle the conditions at more typical historic speeds in past generation boats, but just not yet the kind of impact that comes with a 100' boat hitting a wave at 40knts.  Can they beef the boats up enough to handle it, or will they just have to back off.  When in control of conditions, such as taking off during a reasonable weather window and routing around storms in a RTR record attempt, things are probably OK with the boats as-is, but committed to a date/time/place departure and dealing with adverse conditions while competing with other boats, not so much.

Still, amazing machines, designers, and sailors.

Previous generation Ultims can still do 40+ kts. To me it is more likely they pushed the boundaries with the new builds in order to reduce weight and enable earlier flight assuming little side loading on the floats, i.e "we're flying above the waves and only touch down here and here on the floats".

We don't know much about the BP capsize but from my perspective the boat appears to lack a bit of reserve volume in the floats/bows when things go pear shaped, giving the crew member(s) less time to respond. Further, the breakup that Gitana discussed in depth is a real issue and it seems BP may have pushed the limits on the beam structures. Trouble there is you can't design flying machines to crash, as they would then be too heavy to fly in the first place! As a reasonable compromise, I envision escape pods becoming a topic of conversation in the team tent...

On the 'bigger is better' mantra, I suspect most agree that Spindrift 2/ex BP V is on the big side for singlehanded work at 130' LOA. IDEC ex. Groupama 3 is 100' LOA and holds or has held all the major distance racing records in both crewed and solo configuration. I suspect that was looked at pretty heavily when teams picked the size boat they would build. You could still build more robust, less aero-optimized floats on a 100 footer than what VPLP developed for the flying boats.

 

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49 minutes ago, samc99us said:

Previous generation Ultims can still do 40+ kts. To me it is more likely they pushed the boundaries with the new builds in order to reduce weight and enable earlier flight assuming little side loading on the floats, i.e "we're flying above the waves and only touch down here and here on the floats".

We don't know much about the BP capsize but from my perspective the boat appears to lack a bit of reserve volume in the floats/bows when things go pear shaped, giving the crew member(s) less time to respond. Further, the breakup that Gitana discussed in depth is a real issue and it seems BP may have pushed the limits on the beam structures. Trouble there is you can't design flying machines to crash, as they would then be too heavy to fly in the first place! As a reasonable compromise, I envision escape pods becoming a topic of conversation in the team tent...

On the 'bigger is better' mantra, I suspect most agree that Spindrift 2/ex BP V is on the big side for singlehanded work at 130' LOA. IDEC ex. Groupama 3 is 100' LOA and holds or has held all the major distance racing records in both crewed and solo configuration. I suspect that was looked at pretty heavily when teams picked the size boat they would build. You could still build more robust, less aero-optimized floats on a 100 footer than what VPLP developed for the flying boats.

 

While previous boats could do 40+knts, I don't know that they were trying to do so in similar conditions.  One thing about flying, is that it smooths things out so that higher speeds can be held in rougher conditions... that goes more to the point I'm making.  I don't think the previous gen boats would be doing 40knts in the same conditions, probably not even Spindrift.

I know you are right that the larger boats are harder for single-handed, and the Ultim focus on solo certainly comes into play on the size rule.... I would still just prefer the teams to recognize that size becomes a challenge on solo sailing and let the teams decide how they want to deal with that, rather than forcing the rule.

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just throwing this out there- wouldn't something like an 85 ft. LWL be a good size for these things instead of the god-like dimensions now? aim for 10, not 11.

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Maybe but you don't see the MOD70's taking a lap around the planet (for example). Most of these boats are dual use, i.e designed to be sailed full crewed or solo, with the possible exception of MACIF which was designed from the start as a solo boat. Anyway, provisions for a crew of 6-8 for 40 days add up weight wise and extra waterline is the most efficient way to add volume. Plus there probably isn't much in it beyond rig costs to go from 85' to 100', and the latter has proven manageable by the best of the best.

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Joyon won't race Brest Oceans and would prefer to break/create records in Asia in a crewed configuration.

ultime-joyon-met-le-cap-en-equipage-sur-l-asie-et-boude-la-brest-oceans.png.3b7d8f93751f5016cc4c383256d3f569.png

 

Source: https://www.ouest-france.fr/route-du-rhum/ultime-joyon-met-le-cap-en-equipage-sur-l-asie-et-boude-la-brest-oceans-6108965

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Ultimate. All around a table...

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/route-du-rhum/ultimes-tous-autour-d-une-table-04-12-2018-12152647.php

Thomas Coville and the Sodebo team might be quite concerned about now...

 

MACHINE TRANSLATION

After a painful Route du Rhum, the skippers of the ultimate class met, on Monday, to Lorient. Thomas Coville, François Gabart, Yves Le Blévec (which bought the Coville Sodebo), Sébastien Josse, François Gabart, but also Armel Le Cléac ' h, which the Bank Populaire XI has been completely destroyed after its capsize, were present around the table. Only Romain Pilliard and Francis Joyon were absent.

The debriefing was needed! So Monday to Lorient, all skippers have, each turn, told their rum, including damage and the conditions in which they occurred. "A meeting to open books", according to Thomas Coville very happy to hear all the skippers say their desire to "continue to browse the ultimate." All, Armel Le Cléac'h understood.

We know that the trauma is real within the Team Banque Populaire where the Jackal team has lost its "working tool". The blue and white trimaran is unrecoverable, completely destroyed after the capsize. The loss of this Exchange multihull gives for a class today somewhat disoriented.

Joyon takes another Cape

On November 21, the organizers of the transatlantic race Lorient - Bermuda - Lorient announced the postponement of the test which the departure was planned for May 5, 2019. "Boats are broken and we, organizers, we do not know when it will be repaired," said Bernard Bocquet, president of Lorient Grand Large.
It is rumored that around the world solo and race, Brest Oceans, whose departure is scheduled end of 2019, could follow the same course. The report seems to prevail. The boats are not ready. The skippers, either.

And above all, the account is not. Francis Joyon, magnificent winner of the Route du Rhum - Destination Guadeloupe, comes to communicate on the rest of his program. Its records is titled 'Idec Sport - Asian Tour 2019 - 2020' and has, for goals, to tackle six major records, including four new routes between the India and China, before an attempt to return to the road of tea between Hong Kong and London. In short, the sailor of Locmariaquer is back on the trail of records and says no to Brest Oceans.

This tour of the 2019 world is therefore deprived of Armel Le Cléac'h and Francis Joyon. As for Thomas Coville, which to his Sodebo 5 water is scheduled in March 2019, he admits that the case of "Banque Populaire" changed all that. Indeed, the floats of S5 must come out of the same mold as those of Bank Populaire IX. "Are we going to strengthen them? Frankly, I don't know", admits Coville who, like everyone else, needs to understand what happened.

Exchange, pooling...

Besides, all skippers today feel that same need to analyze, to Exchange, to share to advance. We are talking about the future of the ultimate. There are a lot of meetings now, notes Yves Le Blévec. Monday, we all spoke about how we see our projects in the years to come. I can't say more.

This first round resulted in no decision. It is still too early. Too early to know how long will this phase of analysis and studies. Too early to tell how long broken ships will remain under construction.

Other meetings are scheduled in the coming weeks. Among skippers but also with architects, officials for the calculation of structures, etc...

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Ultimate. All around a table...

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/route-du-rhum/ultimes-tous-autour-d-une-table-04-12-2018-12152647.php

Thomas Coville and the Sodebo team might be quite concerned about now...

 

MACHINE TRANSLATION

After a painful Route du Rhum, the skippers of the ultimate class met, on Monday, to Lorient. Thomas Coville, François Gabart, Yves Le Blévec (which bought the Coville Sodebo), Sébastien Josse, François Gabart, but also Armel Le Cléac ' h, which the Bank Populaire XI has been completely destroyed after its capsize, were present around the table. Only Romain Pilliard and Francis Joyon were absent.

The debriefing was needed! So Monday to Lorient, all skippers have, each turn, told their rum, including damage and the conditions in which they occurred. "A meeting to open books", according to Thomas Coville very happy to hear all the skippers say their desire to "continue to browse the ultimate." All, Armel Le Cléac'h understood.

We know that the trauma is real within the Team Banque Populaire where the Jackal team has lost its "working tool". The blue and white trimaran is unrecoverable, completely destroyed after the capsize. The loss of this Exchange multihull gives for a class today somewhat disoriented.

Joyon takes another Cape

On November 21, the organizers of the transatlantic race Lorient - Bermuda - Lorient announced the postponement of the test which the departure was planned for May 5, 2019. "Boats are broken and we, organizers, we do not know when it will be repaired," said Bernard Bocquet, president of Lorient Grand Large.
It is rumored that around the world solo and race, Brest Oceans, whose departure is scheduled end of 2019, could follow the same course. The report seems to prevail. The boats are not ready. The skippers, either.

And above all, the account is not. Francis Joyon, magnificent winner of the Route du Rhum - Destination Guadeloupe, comes to communicate on the rest of his program. Its records is titled 'Idec Sport - Asian Tour 2019 - 2020' and has, for goals, to tackle six major records, including four new routes between the India and China, before an attempt to return to the road of tea between Hong Kong and London. In short, the sailor of Locmariaquer is back on the trail of records and says no to Brest Oceans.

This tour of the 2019 world is therefore deprived of Armel Le Cléac'h and Francis Joyon. As for Thomas Coville, which to his Sodebo 5 water is scheduled in March 2019, he admits that the case of "Banque Populaire" changed all that. Indeed, the floats of S5 must come out of the same mold as those of Bank Populaire IX. "Are we going to strengthen them? Frankly, I don't know", admits Coville who, like everyone else, needs to understand what happened.

Exchange, pooling...

Besides, all skippers today feel that same need to analyze, to Exchange, to share to advance. We are talking about the future of the ultimate. There are a lot of meetings now, notes Yves Le Blévec. Monday, we all spoke about how we see our projects in the years to come. I can't say more.

This first round resulted in no decision. It is still too early. Too early to know how long will this phase of analysis and studies. Too early to tell how long broken ships will remain under construction.

Other meetings are scheduled in the coming weeks. Among skippers but also with architects, officials for the calculation of structures, etc...

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Ultimes: Brest Oceans (2019) UPDATE
https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/ultimes-la-course-brest-oceans-2019-reportee-05-12-2018-12152945.php


MACHINE TRANSLATION

It is now official: The Brest Oceans, a solo race around the world on maxi-Trimaran, which was scheduled to start on 29 December 2019, is postponed. The numerous damage and breakages that occurred during the rum Route do not allow skippers to be ready in time.

On Monday, the skippers had gathered around a table in Lorient. To exchange on the damage but most likely to agree on the announcement of a postponement of the Brest Oceans.

The press release fell the next day.

"Significant damage has affected the trimarans of the ultimate class in the depressions that have, for part of them, blocked the route of Guadeloupe on Monday 5 and Tuesday 6 November last. These incidents promptly forced Brest Ultim Sailing, the organising authority of Brest Oceans, to interview all the stakeholders on the date of departure of the first round of the world, in race, solitary and multihull, of history.
The nourished exchanges allowed to take into account the constraints of each of them and thus lead to a collective decision, serene and most shared by all, namely the postponement of Brest Oceans.

A validated date at the end of January 2019

No other date has been set but the organizers and riders have announced that they will "validate a date taking into account all the items brought to their knowledge before the end of January 2019".

Lorient-Bermuda-Lorient already...

After the postponement of the Transat Lorient-Bermuda-Lorient, whose departure was scheduled on May 5, 2019, so it is the second race postponed for the finals who lost a competitor of size, Armel le Cléac'h, whose maxi-trimaran is totally destroyed after His capsize.

Read about Records: Joyon turns to Asia

As for Francis Joyon, winner of the 11th edition of the Rum Route, he chose to go on the field of records with a campaign in Asia in 2019-2020.

Words

Emmanuel (general manager of Brest Ultim Sailing): The nature of the events on the last Route of rum-Destination Guadeloupe has led to not evade anything. The postponement of Brest Oceans, which was scheduled to start on 29 December 2019, was the wisest decision to take. If we know that this race is out of standard, it is still held by unavoidable security contingencies which we feel are now too uncertain.

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Gitana 17 bow section washes up in Cornwall

The Maxi Edmond de Rothschild trimaran Gitana 17 lost a section of her starboard hull during the Route du Rhum - Destination Guadeloupe, and this bow section has washed up in Gunwalloe Fishing Cove, Cornwall.

https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/212841

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1 hour ago, QBF said:

Gitana 17 bow section washes up in Cornwall

The Maxi Edmond de Rothschild trimaran Gitana 17 lost a section of her starboard hull during the Route du Rhum - Destination Guadeloupe, and this bow section has washed up in Gunwalloe Fishing Cove, Cornwall.

https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/212841

A handy find for forensic purposes. 

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Up on hard now plenty of bits of carbon nomex and foam kicking about on beach lots of damage from rocks 

structure really good no delamination just snapped on bulkhead longditunal shear web has load spreading section of foam but bulkheads do not possibly creating hard spot

very sad

DE6FC03E-5CAC-449B-AD05-DA0D6164819B.jpeg

2C059D96-75B9-463D-873D-316B37318A17.jpeg

553E6BC1-E9B2-4766-9070-5D3A3D1A5E43.jpeg

287FA760-7F11-4AD0-8793-C9943D3B0626.jpeg

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No more Ultime's in the Transat Jacques Vabre

https://www.lequipe.fr/Voile/Actualites/Transat-jacques-vabre-2019-un-depart-sans-les-ultimes/966422

MACHINE TRANSLATION

Transat Jacques Vabre 2019: a start without the ultimate

Organizers of the Transat Jacques Vabre 2019 announced Saturday that the transatlantic to sailing and Duet, played every two years, would leave le Havre on 27 October 2019 without the ultimate category. "It's a special category, the ultimate. That's great. "But I think they need to do something on their own, because otherwise they take all the light", said Sylvie Viant, race Director.

The story of the last hours that bring Francis Joyon in the legend of the Route du rhum Francis Joyon: "it was a complete insanity."

The ULTIMATES, able sea monsters for some to fly over water with foils, revolutionizing the world of sailing and beat all records. But the Route du Rhum 2018 has also highlighted the fragility of the latest generation. The Idec winner Francis Joyon Sport boat is the only one having joined Guadeloupe without breaking.

Three classes at the start

Three classes will be at the start of the Transat: 15 metres from the Multi50 multihulls, 18 meters of the Imoca monohulls, and those 12-metre Class40. The crews of the three categories in the race will leave port Yokohama direction El Salvador of Bahia, in Brazil for a race to the coast of 4 350 miles, or 7,000 kilometres of the North South in Atlantic waters.

After their presence in 2015 and 2017, the ultimate, these multihulls of 32 m long and 23 m wide, will be notably absent from the Transat duplicate. In 2017, is aboard one of the trimaran Sodebo Ultim' that Thomas Coville and Jean-Luc Nélias had won the Transat all categories, setting a new record in 7 days 22 hours and 7 minutes.

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Marc Thiercelin to relaunch his ultimate project and search for partners

5c10d90cf0b7a.jpg

https://www.magazine-decideurs.com/news/marc-thiercelin-entre-terre-et-mer?fbclid=IwAR3g31OTxNMI_mDAx50ckYhbPbXglT6_b_SNjyBTefv_v06C7NgXlk3JVUg#.XBFta2ms2Xs.facebook

MACHINE TRANSLATION

You may have followed him during one of the many races he participated in, from the Vendée Globe to the Transat Jacques-Vabre. A confirmed sailor, lecturer and teacher, Marc Thiercelin is now embarking on a new adventure: creating a trimaran capable of "flying" over water, and extending its uses to share it with the greatest number.

A sea monster of 18 tons, 32 meters long and more than 20 meters wide, whose mast points to 40 meters... and that flies. "The ultimate trimaran," sums up Marc Thiercelin. The navigator, which travelled more than 700 000 kilometers on the oceans, embarked on the design of an exceptional racing boat, which would no longer be reserved for the only callous hands of the confirmed skippers. "I want to transform the model to invite a larger number of actors: companies, enthusiasts, researchers, engineers," he explains. To find this balance, he put on 150 days a year of competition and 100 days of various benefits, for example, to companies wishing to propose an original team building, to individuals in search of ocean shivering or, again, to Researchers and engineers. The gamers are also a target for Marc Thiercelin, who focuses on the potential of e-sailing and that successes like that of Virtual Regatta do not dement.

Increased sailors

To attract these users, the trimaran that the skipper imagined is a concentrate of technology. Equipped with foils that allow it to "fly" up to ten metres above the waves, the ship will be equipped with an onboard artificial intelligence system, to manage flight, altitude and speed. The sailors will be the hosts of exoskeletons. "The first goal is to collect data on physical exertion, recovery and trauma." In order to be able to apply to various areas such as disability and even the army. "I want to keep in mind that everything we do on this boat can have an impact on what's on the ground," the contractor says.

Investors actors

And for the project to come to light, the funding has also been redesigned. "The boat can be considered an asset, as well as a building, vine or vintage car," says Marc Thiercelin. Three types of financiers are therefore involved in the project: Investors who finance the assets, with an expected return of 8%, the companies that buy benefits, and the sponsors who are dedicated to the competition. "It creates a virtuous circle and shares the risk.

Two scenarios are emerging concerning the asset, which could be at the choice a maxitrimaran of 2011 to rehabilitate (Oman Air Majan), or the redemption of a boat (MACIF or Idec), for a similar budget of approximately 5.4 million euros. About two thirds of the financing will be insured in bank debt and by Bpifrance, with the remaining third being reserved for investors, for an entry ticket of 100 000 euros. Twelve months will be necessary for the rehabilitation, and the holding horizon is set at five years, with an estimated resale price of 4 million euros. Moored in Marseille, the trimaran is intended to be an ambassador of the region, associating with its edge skippers and entrepreneurs of the south of France. A complete project carried by a true enthusiast of the great blue.

 

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